Pownal CAP Committee reelects officers, weighs investing $400K more

[0:07] Paul Schuman: REMEMBER TO TURN THE MICROPHONE ON. THIS IS THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLANNING COMMITTEE. I'D LIKE TO WELCOME EVERYONE TO THE FIRST MEETING OF THE NEW PLANNING SEASON. IT'S EXCITING TO GET THIS GOING AGAIN. WE ALWAYS HAVE SOME FUN AND GET THINGS DONE. AND WE'LL DO IT AGAIN. SO WE DO HAVE A QUORUM PRESENT. THE AGENDA HAS BEEN SENT TO EVERYONE VIA EMAIL SO WE'LL GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED. THERESA IS NOT HERE BECAUSE OF ILLNESS. And first item on the agenda is to approve the minutes of the last meeting, which was March 25. Is there a motion? I [0:46] Committee member (nominating/motioning): will move that we accept the minutes from the March 25th meeting. Is there a [0:51] Paul Schuman: second? All those in favor? Okay, minutes have been approved. Public comment, there are no public presence, so we'll move on to select board input. There's no select board members present, so we'll move on to the first item of business, committee business, would be to elect a committee chair. So the floor is open for nominations. I [1:15] Committee member (nominating/motioning): move that Paul Schuman be the chair for one, at least one more year, if not many more. [1:26] Paul Schuman: Okay, are there any other nominations? YEARING NONE, WE'LL CLOSE NOMINATIONS AND TAKE A VOTE TO ELECT PAUL SCHUMEN AS CHAIR FOR THE ENSUING YEAR OF THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLANNING COMMITTEE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? OKAY. NEXT ITEM OF BUSINESS WOULD BE TO ELECT A COMMITTEE VICE CHAIR. FLOOR IS OPEN FOR NOMINATIONS. ARE THERE ANY NOMINATIONS? [1:54] Committee member (nominating/motioning): Well, we have one, seeing as we have one now. Teresa is the, she's the outgoing vice chair, she's like he is, so yeah, I will, I will move that when she's not here, yes you can, I will move that Teresa Loughran remain the vice chair. Are there any other nominations? Hearing none, nominations are closed. [2:23] Paul Schuman: We'll move to the election Teresa Lofgren as committee vice chair. All those in favor raise their hands. And now for the coveted position of committee scribe, floor is now open for nominations of the committee scribe for the ensuing year. [2:43] Committee member (nominating/motioning): Would you like to move yourself? No, I will nominate Carl Fields because he's just getting [2:50] Paul Schuman: be good at it, a couple more years and it'll really be in the swing of it. All right, I'll [2:56] Committee member (nominating/motioning): second that nomination. All right, motion has been made, seconded. Are there any other nominations? [3:01] Paul Schuman: Hearing none, we'll close nominations and move to a vote. All those in favor of Kyler Eagles as a committee scribe? Congratulations. Okay, so that fills all of the official positions we NEED FOR THE COMMITTEE. NEXT WOULD BE REVIEW AND DISCUSSION OF INVESTING THE CAPITAL RESERVE ACCOUNT BALANCE AND WE HAVE WITH US TODAY AS OUR GUEST BECKY, THE PANEL ADMINISTRATOR TO TALK TO US ABOUT HER EXPERIENCE OVER THIS PAST YEAR AND TO SHARE ANY THOUGHTS SHE HAS ON WHAT IF ANYTHING WE SHOULD DO DIFFERENTLY GOING FORWARD. [3:38] Becky Taylor Chase: NEW SPEAKER THANK YOU, PAUL. THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. As Paul stated, I'm Becky Taylor Chase, the town administrator. We adopted an investment policy a couple of years ago, and about nine months ago we invested a half a million dollars of the capital reserve account in a cedar, so that is a basically like a CD, so there's no risk involved, which is a requirement of when you invest governmental funds. And so I brought a few little statistics here, so looking back in at November of 2025, when we still had the full balance at TD, we had a 1.81 percentage rate for interest. Our balance was 1 million 100 674.08, and we were earning 1628 in interest. Fast forward to August 2026, and the rate has now dropped to 1.66 percent at TD Bank, so definitely moving that money to the CDAR where we're getting 3.2% is doing more for us. So currently, we just had a capital outlay project approved at Junetown meeting, and we've moved that money over. So the balance in TD sits at $489,462, and we're getting $685 of interest as of last month on that. And we're going to talk a little bit more about how I think I can make that money work, which is the interest rates I just passed out. So we have, we invested a half a million into Franklin, their rate has been best at a four-week CD, so every month I just hit a button to renew it and interest involved, so our balance as of last month was now 511 502 dollars and 38 cents. We've made eleven thousand five hundred and two dollars in interest in the last nine months, from December through now, so that's averaging about 1200 a month. So I was looking back when interest rates were a little bit higher, there was a little bit more kind of a gap in interest. We're earning about 200 more on interest now because we moved 278 000 out of that account into the general fund purchase, the new excavator and the flail mower. So I had a meeting with my TD rep because we did some enhancement to our online banking with some more fraud protection and things like that. And I said, look, how can I make this money that sits there that we might need at the ready a little faster than the money off site work for us? And I asked her for current rates, which she held until after the feds had their recent rate hike. And this is what they gave me last week for proposed rates. And then she can do laddering. I'd love to align this 400,000 with starting with a July 1 investment ending kind of June 30th, but I and I think we can do that next year, but we still got nine months I think in this year that we could look at either taking a hundred thousand and splitting it into maybe a three month, a six month, a nine month, or two nine months. I mean, I want to look at these rates and kind of find the best one. Maybe it makes sense to just take 400,000 and put it right in that nine month at 3.9, you know, and then on June 30th we re-evaluate a really full sort of laddering depending what rates are there. But we'll also, we'll know as the budget cycle, you know, progresses in the spring if there's any capital outlay projects next year that are going on the warren and what available reserve balance will still be at TD, or if we're gonna have to tap into the investment offsite. That I don't know, because I haven't looked at the- [7:22] Paul Schuman: You're talking about the 400,000 you're talking about is in addition to the 500,000 that's already offsite. That is correct. So you'd have 900,000 in total invested for this committee as opposed to 500,000. Correct. Okay, I'm with you. [7:36] Becky Taylor Chase: Yep, correct. So after moving the 278,000 that was approved at town meeting, the balance at TD is 489,400, and I would, I'm proposing that I'm going to look at investing that 400,000, looking at these TD rates, trying to figure out the best approach for the next nine months, and then look at really encompassing because we've talked about capturing the fiscal year with the investments and going there, and then looking at maybe a ladder or if they've got a rate that's 12 months and we've got available reserve funds at TD because there's no outlay projects next year, then we keep investing it. Because really when I'm looking at the capital plan, like one of the next things to talk about at Mallet Hall is a generator. This interest is going to pay for the generator, you know, and the hope is that this is going to lower the ask at town meeting, you know, for town and, you know, help offset appropriations down the road by keeping on this and seeing these increased rates recently really gives me promise that we can do More do these rates reflect a minimum amount invested? So the interesting thing about TD is they're not CDARs, they're CD, so we, there's no insurance. We talked about, you know, the insurance liability that goes with that, and they don't do cedars, so these would be individual CDs, and they don't do anything over 250 for that type of thing. So we're gonna, we're gonna be hitting the minimum balances that they require, and I did ask her generalize like, well, what does that do to the reserve fund? She's like, oh, we'll make sure that you're still meeting the minimum and the reserve fund checking that we have, which is carrying the 489 and change, and invest what we can to make the most out of the money. So she was pretty encouraging in our meeting a couple of months ago about ways to make that money do better than 685 a month right now. So is it, is it all insured? Because if you put 400, you're over the 250 [9:42] Paul Schuman: fidc maximum so how do they and that's usually based on ownership right she didn't get into [9:48] Becky Taylor Chase: to all those details because we were meeting about the online platform, and I said, okay, I said, right now I want some rates, and you're telling me that there's ways to do this, and now I need to set up a meeting to then go into the real heavy details of how to make this work without maxing out on the [10:06] Paul Schuman: insurance or cause the cedar gave you a way around the insurance. Yes, and I don't, I wouldn't [10:13] Becky Taylor Chase: know how TD is going to do that. 's what, that's what she's going to tell me. Okay, good, sit down and get more details. But mostly I wanted to at least report on how it's done for nine months, which is pretty encouraging and pretty easy to manage, and what we have that we could work with some more to just make this money work more, because there's still, you know, 900 000 to work with here. So that is the quick summary of where we are and the future I'm looking at, so I'll bring more, I'll send more to you once I have a natural sit down with her specific to invest in these funds, and I'm trying to do that as quick as possible because I don't want to lose out on potential nice rates that they're looking at right now for their terms. Anybody have any questions for Becky? Well, [11:05] Committee member (nominating/motioning): other than the insurance that's I question. Yeah, that too, but I have a question. [11:15] Paul Schuman: I mean, it looks like you really learned a lot, improved, you know, the town's knowledge of how to maximize or make our money work harder, which is great. We've been waiting a long time for that. What would you like to see this committee do differently to help you do it? Because we're a committee that could have large balances, as you know. And it's going to go down and go up over the next 10 to 20 years. What should we be preparing to do differently to help you get to a good, you talked about a 12-month view rather than a nine-month view. How can we help? I think you're [11:53] Becky Taylor Chase: going to help when you present that there's an allocation next year coming out of that fund. I don't know if we've got a piece of equipment yet that's going to be on a warrant article, and that's going to happen through the budget cycle, and then that knowledge is going to tell me what balance, whether it's nothing coming out that I can work in for a 12-month cycle, or what I might have. I mean, if we've got six hundred thousand dollars in capital projects next year, then I'm gonna have to, you know, pull back on that outside investment, but if we've got a hundred thousand, then I'm gonna know what I can invest, and then I can plan in May and June with my rep to get a year plan for that money starting July 1. Okay, so if we like, we last year [12:42] Paul Schuman: the last season wrapped up our planning in March. If we took a year ahead view and said, which we could do, it would be very simple to do and say, this is what we see right now on the horizon for spending in the next plan, after that, so plan two after that, would help you figure out what you could max, you know, how you would maximize the interest, we yet still have access to the funds if something unexpected happens. Yes, absolutely, because right now, even though we haven't started planning, we know what the anticipated expenditures are going to be in this next plan, and we can even, then we'll talk about it tonight, it's a, it's an item, there's one item, it's, I can't remember the amount, but it's an item that's probably, in my best guess, going to get deferred by the fire chief, because he doesn't want to buy it now, he wants to buy it when we have a new facility, because he gets the right thing, rather than taking something that's old and putting, and it's the wrong thing, and then they're not really what He needs for the a new facility so that could that could drive us to zero unless something we don't know about right now. Chris's first meeting, so maybe we don't know about something, but that's what we that's what we would have told you last March. So we'll we'll get into a quick review. I don't know whether you'll stay for that or not, but we'll do a quick review of what the plan looks like and what the [14:19] Committee member (nominating/motioning): anticipated expenditure items will be. I do have one question, just out of curiosity, are there other funds within the town that you're looking at doing some investing with? So we have invested [14:33] Becky Taylor Chase: the cemetery perpetual care fund as well, and that's with Franklin, and that's doing really well, a much smaller amount, but still doing way better than the 30 a month I think we were getting TD at the time. So I'm pretty happy with that I think, and I need to look a little bit more as far as the legalities around investing the minimum balance that we're required to keep for unassigned fund. I want to look into that a little bit more, and I think until we get past some of these larger future facilities expenditures as we progress through the process, I kind of want to leave it where it is, but then once that those asks every year town meeting kind of start to quiet because we're building it hopefully, I do I want to see if we can make that do more than the we're getting about 4 000 in the general fund right now a month, but it could do better. There are some other smaller accounts in there that we might be able to you know [15:36] Committee member (nominating/motioning): Well I was thinking like the impact [15:41] Becky Taylor Chase: fee monies. I would have to check with Norstar if we are allowed to invest them. I know we are not allowed to invest TIF funds, right, I have already asked that question just to make sure, but that would be a good question as we're working on revising them this year and possibly redoing the formula, especially based on the large project coming down the road for us. We want to make sure we're maximizing money that's going into those accounts right now while we have the opportunity, so I can pose that question out to Northstar and ask if we can invest that. 's a that's a good thought, but all of those [16:21] Paul Schuman: funds are still under the same ownership, correct, so it raises that insurance question, and that's a [16:27] Becky Taylor Chase: Question to that I will ask the experts on tomorrow probably. I'll start with an email to say let's revisit this and this is the big question right now. She'll she'll tell me she'll lay it out in a nice plan for me and you're given this first year of experience. [16:46] Paul Schuman: You're comfortable with your ability to access funds the town may need for emergency capital yes expenditure or emergency situations that come out of this capital reserve account. [16:58] Becky Taylor Chase: Out yes I felt like when we had 1.1 million that 500 000 which you all felt comfortable to made sense to offset and knowing what we had coming up in that plan for that next year still gave us plenty of available balance. So now I still feel like we have plenty of available balance and if potentially the plan gets deferred this year or the expenditure gets deferred into a future year then that gives us more time to really work on this I think and if they're laddering then you always have some. available correct funds and i mean the worst case is that we have to pull it we lose the interest i mean worst case scenario if something were to come up then we might lose a month or two of interest if we have to pull a three-month you know investment and is that great no but it 's not the end of the world per se probably less of an impact than the reason we're pulling it less of an exactly less of an impact than the reason it's not catastrophic so and then and then yeah having the ability to Work with a couple of different banks too and see what they can do has been helpful because I'm always reflecting on our banking services and what's out there and what we'd be doing more. So I think this is giving opportunity to kind of check those boxes as well, but learn and improve on this process. [18:27] Paul Schuman: Good. Any other questions, comments, Becky? Great, thank you very much for coming in. I mean, it's just wonderful news to see that our money, you know, those balances that we talked about years ago are getting more attention and working hard for us because you're right we're going to buy a generator or something with the interest we've earned which is that's what we've wanted. [18:51] Becky Taylor Chase: To do, I looked at Mallet Hall like what was the next thing coming, and it was the colder generator, which we talked about a little bit last year, whether it stays on the plan or not. Anyway, and I said look, in like two years we're gonna have the money to buy that out of this. When I was looking at the numbers this week and thought, you know, that's a good point, that even a small expenditure of 10 or 15,000 is impactful, you know, in the tax bill. It is, and to be able to take some money we already have from tax allocation and make it work to offset in the future, you know, it takes a couple years before we're going to see it, but we're going to see it. Well, again, thank you for coming in and [19:29] Paul Schuman: updating us on that, because we've all, you know, we've talked about it a little bit in your absence since we've last talked, but we've all been excited to find out what's really happening and [19:39] Becky Taylor Chase: how significant. So congratulations, great job. Thank you. Every month I jump right on when I know the statement has changed. Where are we? Okay, next subject on the agenda is the ADA compliance [19:53] Paul Schuman: with recorded meetings, and Becky again is our guest to talk about that subject with us. Thank [19:59] Becky Taylor Chase: you again for giving me a couple of minutes to talk about this fun, exciting new endeavor that we have to figure out from the municipal level. So the federal government, Department of Justice, has handed down some stronger mandates regarding ADA compliancy on our website, and it does kind of falter or factor into recorded meetings a little bit. So this is the pretty easy and simple thing to talk about. You'll notice I've turned closed captioning on Zoom. There's a little button that you just turn closed captioning on, and it does a pretty good job if you kind of follow along as what someone is saying. It's pretty accurate. So that is if we had somebody in the audience while we're meeting live right now that might be hearing impaired, they can read along with what we're saying. I can tell you these microphones don't project in the room, and if you sit back and talk softly, if I'm in the front room and I'm hearing impaired, I can't hear you. And so I'm often doing this, you know, leaning, because I'm actually fully deaf in one ear, and so having the closed caption I can at least read along and catch what I might be missing. And then if you are sharing a document, which I think you might be doing later in this meeting, probably not tonight, but most nights we do, but even if you, and I'll just do this, so I've just put up the town's YouTube channel, and it's only projecting in the TV screens, but so even if you're not sharing on the recording, but it's still up on the TV screens, before you even get into the meat of what you're going to talk about, you pause for a second and you simply say, we've just put the town's YouTube channel listing our current videos up on the internal TV screen, so if you have a site impaired person sitting in the audience, they have context to what is up on those TV screens that they can't see, because you're probably going to be talking about that document, you know, if you pull the agenda up and you have the agenda, you're just going to pause for a second and say, we've put up the CAP committee agenda for this evening. And then you're gonna be going through the agenda, so you don't have to read it in full. It's just the two little steps to make sure that anybody then at home that is either sight or hearing impaired has that context with what's in the screen. And then we have closed captioning through YouTube. So we actually do a transcript file different from what Zoom does. And that just gets us closer to conforming and making sure we're being inclusive to an audience, and as the digital world just everything becomes more and more digital, making sure that we're not excluding people from access to that, I have to actually do alt text or alternative text on pictures on the website, and I can't do that in a mp4 recorded video, so that's why when you project something up, you just describe what it is real quick, and that would be the same thing as if I'm writing text in the back and a screen reader says panel town logo or field and woods with sunset or whatever we write in there, so that's the small drop in the bucket of what we have to do over the next 15 months to make our website actually be conforming to these standards, and it's going to be a lot of work and a little bit out of my wheelhouse, but more of them, what are the requirements for as to what meetings have to be broadcast, it's really up to the town, I when I first presented to the select board I felt like The select board, the capital asset planning committee, the zoning board of appeals, and the planning board were important, and the budget committee when they have standalone meetings were important because they're large decision makers of the town financially, you know, development wise, or you know, appeal wise, that it was really important that those committees be recorded, and then any other committee can record. Right now it's optional, they don't have to, and most of them have chosen not to, but if they wanted to they absolutely could [24:18] Committee member (questioning replacement costs): record and once they have been record recorded there are certain rules that you have to follow [24:23] Becky Taylor Chase: The two things really that I talked about and we don't have to technically do that for 15 months but if we start practicing now right we're just there right we're just there I see everything coming out in text does that text save this one isn't so when I upload to youtube it creates a transcript and closed captioning I think zoom does a slightly better job and I have not found the buttons and somebody that's probably a little bit more tech savvy than me could probably show me it's just this button where I could download this because I have to correct the transcript of youtube moving forward in about 15 months in case so they always call panel in youtube I'd have to go in and manually type out the word poundle and that's you always call it panel so they didn't catch it either and so you know thinking in terms of the time that will take when there might be a three and a half hour planning board meeting which there have recently been that length of a meeting and how we manage that This is an unfunded mandate so this is this is a cost to the town as we move forward we have to make PDFs accessible and PDFs are not accessible right now and they require tagging in the background and you have lost me I took a course on it two weeks ago Jaylene was picking it up and I was like I'll meet you downstairs in the car it just was really it was not my wheelhouse so I've been practicing a little bit but this could be a full-time person's job honestly or we contract out with the Company, so we had an assessment done, and we could contract with that company. So any PDF that we put up there has to go to them. They have to make it accessible, send it back to me, and then it goes up. So we would need a lot of lead time on getting things up. Imagine 128 page submission to the planning board for an application to a subdivision, making that be accessible. Spreadsheets, making those be accessible. I lose sleep right now over this and making sure that the website continues to be available, but conforms to the 2.2 AA standards, sad that I know these little technical terms now, and doesn't open us up to potential lawsuits. So another reason by having this conversation too, and I had one recently with the select board and I'll be going to the planning board, is it tracks that we are working on this and that we are having discussions, we're taking trainings, trying to figure this out, so that if someone ever came down in 15 months and say you're not there, well we can, we have defects, we can document the work that we're doing. So another reason I wanted to steal probably seven minutes now of your time on this, it's probably good that not all the [27:24] Committee member (nominating/motioning): committees record because you would get some major pushback from a few. Sure. Yeah, they don't have to. [27:32] Becky Taylor Chase: And the recording is like I said is the easier part because that is actually sent to an external YouTube which doesn't have to be compliant and it's not our really our official like communication. The website is where we really officially communicate information. However, we are not required to post the minutes to the website. It is a courtesy by state statute. We're not required actually to even post the agendas to the website. That doesn't actually comply, you know, state statute doesn't tell me that I have to do that. We do that as a huge value that I see as getting that information to people's living rooms or, you know, wherever, because involvement is key and we have no one here tonight and all that stuff is out and available to them but the recorded meetings are available the next day so if they can't make it tonight they have an access to the discussion here which is just as important. So I would hate to see you know the grant money that we got you know to put all this equipment in not be used in the Future because of these mandates, but the recorded meetings are the easy part. It's the website that's going to be the bigger load to carry and work to be done to get it there. Do you get any data on the views on the website or the YouTube channel? I mean, I can see the views on the YouTube channel, so I know how many followers we have, I know how many views, and I can see even region, I can see time frames of when the views are happening, when it's getting the most traffic, and things like that. I would have to check with Jaylene. She knows a little bit more about the administration back end of the website. And there probably is traffic because our Durago Interactive who did our assessment identified the agendas and the GIS mapping, the parcel viewer as the two most trafficked areas on our website. And so they deemed those the two most priorities of making sure that they're compatible. So ViewShed jumped right on it and they've been working on it. And if you look at parcel viewer you'll probably already see some changes in color contrast right now, so they're working on that. And the other piece was we moved into an agenda platform with the Select Board about a year ago because the HTML version that is what we post on the website is compatible, it's conforming, it has one little hiccup when I tested it the other day but that'll be easy to fix. And so we will be migrating all committees onto that HTML platform. I actually want to focus on this committee next, so I have to build your template and send it to you. It will be a very simple process. So Paul, what you would do is you'd have a point of contact in the office, one of the deputy clerks, you would email that person here's my items I need for the agenda, add your attachments, and she's going to go in there and she's got to create your new agenda, put everything in, add your attachments, five minutes, send you the link back, and then we'll send it to Jaylene for posting and you're done. And then everything is out there in HTML that way, so it's it's much simpler. Minutes, we're still trying to figure out how we're going to do minutes. So same thing, Mallet Hall, eventually we'll get there. Recreation, we just got future facilities on it. So we've got Budget Committee, Board of Appeals, Planning Board, Select Board, future facilities migrated over onto the new platform. So we're going to work over the next nine months getting everybody else on because it is more conforming to the standards that we have to comply by in 15 months. A lot of work. [31:16] Committee member (nominating/motioning): Get used to it. There'll be more and more men. It never, it never stops, you know? [31:22] Paul Schuman: Okay. Any other, any questions for Becky? [Committee member (nominating/motioning): No, thank you.] Thank you very much for coming. You're welcome to stay and enjoy the rest of the meeting or if you have other things you'd like to do. [31:35] Becky Taylor Chase: I might exit only cause this is my third night meeting this week. So I think I might go home and I get to watch the rest of it tomorrow once we upload the recording. [31:44] Paul Schuman: Great, thanks again. [31:46] Committee member (questioning replacement costs): Yeah, but if you couldn't upload it tomorrow and if you couldn't see it tomorrow you would stay right? [31:51] Paul Schuman: I would consider it okay the next item on the agenda is plan assumptions they were included as part of the agenda I just want to walk through those oh Becky before you go [32:07] Becky Taylor Chase: I had one more thing too I should be getting the draft audit soon I know you're still waiting on that information the audit happened on 9 22 she came back with a couple of questions today I sent that information off so I should be able to reply you with that last piece soon all right [32:21] Paul Schuman: Good great the information that you have sent over you gave me information on the bond interest rate and as I as I recall you said it starts out at three percent and ends up in 20 years at five percent our plan can't handle that interest rate whatever it is it fair to say if you start at three and at five the average interest rate is four I think so and we need something to put in there as a number to calculate that interest not that it affects the plan but it does affect the charting that we Do in looking at where is it best to finance [33:02] Becky Taylor Chase: Finance things in the future and I think that's a fair assumption and I will say recently with the 2007 or the 2011 they did an audit and they reduced our interest coming in for the last half of it and we got a whole new payment schedule a couple of years ago with lowered interest payments so I think going on four is probably a good assumption because it there could be a nice audit at the end of a bond that actually really lowers it for planning and this is all [33:35] Paul Schuman: Going forward basis so for planning that and I don't know whether you have a true variable or you have some municipal thing that happens but four percent over the life of that bond for planning purposes would be a reasonable assumption yes okay so what the main municipal bond has [33:54] Becky Taylor Chase: Is they have a spreadsheet and you could spend all day putting numbers in there and seeing what could happen. It's a rabbit hole I could go down for probably 35 40 minutes. And what I did was put in spring and fall and numbers and 20 or 30 years and then it gives me a full payment schedule right off the bat in spreadsheet form. And so that was where I looked where it kind of started at three and ended at five but they were variable all the way through. It might be 3.7 and 3.2 and then it's 4.1 and Slow you know why that where that comes from no idea unless they just don't do locked rating a locked rate they just it's a variable a variable rate and then we're we're [34:33] Paul Schuman: Really kind of a in a pool right so all the state town all the municipalities are doing their bonding through this pool and it we get whatever the pool gets right okay not much different from [34:49] Becky Taylor Chase: Health insurance you know if you can get a lot of groups together you get a better rate but if you're an individual company going you get less of a rate so I think too you know kind of in that pool they factor in you know the rate based on how much they're lending so we in effect do not have [35:05] Paul Schuman: A panel bond we just have a agreement with mma or whatever it is main bond bank to use their facility and they tell us what we're going to pay for it that's correct okay yep it's great all right thank you 're welcome all right back to the assumptions so you have the list if you have the agenda hopefully you do and I've given it to you showing what the assumptions in the plan are now versus the prior year plan much of it has come from or the things that have changed that come from becky things That haven't changed are going to be up to us but you can see the bond fees staying the same just got clarity on the bond interest rate so we can plug that number in down from the five percent we used last year bond term is still 20 years bonding threshold we have at 300 000 that's for us to kind of make the determination on using the old rule of thumb of a dump truck they're in the plan now about 290 000 so we probably need to take a look [36:19] Committee member (nominating/motioning): At that a little harder once we get the report from yeah I mean department heads will be better [36:29] Paul Schuman: Educated right, but 350 may look good, right? So God only knows, right? So that we just, let's just be aware of that future smoothing we have at five percent. That's really coming off of the inflation rate, which is also at five percent. We won't know that till we get to the end of the presentations, and probably the February meeting typically is where we see that analysis. At the end of the presentations, we may have a good idea because it's been set up now to be a little bit more auto generating. We're appropriating for 15 years, which we, I think the last year before decided to just future smoothing take it all the way out to the end of the 20-year plan rather than having it stop and then it looks funky in there. Interest rate on the capital reserve account, we got some information from Becky in front of us. We'll have to make a decision there, or maybe with Becky's help, is the, it's looking like something in the three to four percent is probably a better place for that year one appropriation and year one through five, the appropriation overrides, they're the same as in the current gold plan, but just stepped into the updated one year. So you'll see that year five is the same as year four because year four is last year's year five. It would be nice if we could keep year five the same as it was last year, and that, which would mean we could reduce everything before year five, and because you can see we got a seven thousand dollar increase from year in year one versus where it was last year. Be nice to drop that down. It's only like three and a quarter, three point four percent, I think, increase, so it was less than the rate of inflation in the plan. So it would, you know, in the back of my mind is how can we hold that down, because that's really, that's the near-term appropriation that we have to ask for, and that's what is impacting the town now. And I realize that year five is what helps us determine if we can cover the future years all the way through year 20. So we'll have some interesting, and I'll give you a little highlight since I put these in and took a look at it, we've got the capital reserve account covered through year 19. So now we don't have the department heads right information, so that may change our world there. But and I may be getting way ahead of myself, but I just couldn't help peeking at that. Looks good now, it looks, yeah, they could blow that out of the water if they come in with their estimates. So kind of the bookkeeping thing, negative appropriations, we don't want them, so we'll leave that at no round of thousands. Yes, that makes everything look like a planning type of number, smooth as a percent of prior year what that does it says if it's we don't want it to be less than the prior year when you get out into the future you know 15 years out some funky things may happen because of the calculations in reality we're probably not going to see that appropriation go down it may stay the same but it 's not in reality probably won't go down so we'll keep it at 100 so it doesn't go down having it stay the same would be great and if we were to override that and let it go down that would be wonderful too And then the other things affect the what if scenarios that we will be doing probably in February if we've gotten all the input from the department heads. The sensitivity range is just to help color code some of the numbers that tell us when we're out of that 10 percent from, I think that's the prior year, I can remember that. The thing that will change is the cap, or may change the target capital reserve or balance of 300 000. Is that the right number? And there again, looking at what do we need to cover if something happens, what do we need to cover that near-term year to get the appropriation paid for, but we haven't, we don't have, you know, if we let it go too low, then we can't cover a near-term emergency. So we'll, we'll set that. And then the capital reserve sensitivity is it will color code for us and highlight is if we're, if we don't have 90 percent of that target reserve, so it'll jump out as I say, hey guys, stop, take a look at this. And then the percent invested excess over target for what we just heard from Becky, her plan is to one way or another get it all invested. And you know that what we had here was to allow us to do an exercise that we did last year of saying you can invest this much, but we're concerned, it's new, let's see how it works, keep this much handy. It sounds like by being able to invest within her TD bank account, that's the, that's kind of keeping it handy for a quick turnaround should we need it, which allows greater latitude, flexibility. So that would be great. And Then, as always to anybody that we're talking about, our assumptions at this stage of the game, any of them can change as we move forward, but that's how it looks right now. Anybody have anything that gives them concern or would like to see us investigate a change on those [42:19] Committee member (nominating/motioning): assumptions? Going to be interested to see what the inflation rate is. Yeah, I, you know, I'm [42:29] Paul Schuman: yeah, it was, it was kind of, you know, hopeful that it could at least stay steady, you know, maybe come down a teeny bit, but all depends on what happens in the short term here. We'll see. Okay, so that's that. If those changes, when you see the plan next, it will have these assumptions built into it and the bond interest rate updated, and then the interest rate on the capital reserve also plugged in, and then essentially we'll be as complete as we can be when we start seeing this, probably as early as the next meeting. The next item would be to review the asset schedule and items due for funding in this next plan year, so that also was part of the agenda. So if you can go to those sheets, you'll see that the only item that's planned for expenditure this year is the air compressor presser system at 95,000. My guess is, Jesse, you may want to push that out again for another year because the future facilities hopefully is [43:53] Committee member (nominating/motioning): on the horizon out there somewhere, but it's not yet here. I would nearly guarantee that we'll get [44:00] Paul Schuman: pushed out. Yeah, you're closer to that situation than I am, but that would be my guess. The other thing we heard Becky say that the money has been moved out of the capital reserve account count into the town's general fund for the purchase of the new excavator and the flail mower, so I will have to update the excavator a year in service to 2027. So we'll get that done, and so that'll clean that up, and until we get an actual real number, we'll leave it at the appropriated [44:44] Committee member (nominating/motioning): number. Has she put money back in from items that were sold, or I think there was a little bit [44:55] Paul Schuman: yeah, it was under ten thousand dollars, I think it was a couple different items, but it was under ten thousand, wasn't anything big, but that is in the, as I remember typing that in, that's in the plan right now. We're just waiting for that firm number on the year-end balance that was in the account, and then we'll have that solidified. So any thoughts or additions on the asset list, [45:27] Committee member (nominating/motioning): questions, I'm [45:31] Committee member (questioning replacement costs): Not aware of anything new. The only, the only quick question on the talking about the extra excavator, the current replacement is 232.5 and then the projected replacement placement cost actually went down. What, why was that? I, yeah, I can't answer that. I don't know. It's [45:53] Paul Schuman: a good trend but it's a good trend but it's not the right trend I don't know other than it's it's that line would be off because the 2000s the 2007 number is not right it should be 2027 because we 've actually moved a year so when the date got changed to 6 30 27 as the year end it's not it's not figuring the years right it would be my guess i'd have to look yeah well whatever it is but we'll we'll get that fixed i've got it highlighted here figuring a negative on the years well yeah it's it's got it says it goes for 20 years, but we're already, this plan is in the 21st year of that item. So I think, I think it'll fix itself once I put in 2027 as the, as the year in service. All right, if not, I'm gonna have to figure out why it's doing that, but I will check that. Okay, the agenda meeting conflicts, I want to make sure EVERYBODY IS GOOD WITH SOME ADJUSTMENTS. I THINK I'VE ALREADY ASKED JAYLENE TO CHANGE THE SCHEDULE, BUT JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WOULD MOVE THE NOVEMBER 25th MEETING, WHICH IS THE DAY BEFORE THANKSGIVING, TO THE NEXT WEDNESDAY, WHICH WOULD BE DECEMBER 2nd, AND THEN WE WOULD MOVE THE DECEMBER 30th MEETING, WHICH IS THE DAY BEFORE NEW YEAR'S EVE, TO the January 6th meeting or January 6th date. And if nobody has any objections, we can change our calendars. It's what we've done in years past. Those two meetings seem to conflict. Then next is the department head presentations. Again, we'll probably do that in January, which is really the December and January meeting, but we'll do that over two meetings, but expectations and guidance should go out as soon as we've agreed on it. I've attached something to the agenda for your review, which is the text that we sent them last year, right out of the email that we sent them, and it's, it's really looking for them to be prepared to let us know for items that are being replaced within one to three years, talk to three different Vendors to get a good idea what the estimated pricing for budgeting and planning should be. And if it's more than three years, just talk to somebody. One is good enough to get an idea for planning purposes, and then give us a heads up before you come. If you've got a new item that's in your list, we'd like to know about it so we can think about it before then. Or if you're proposing to substitute something different, usually we get that, but it would, it would be nice to have it ahead of time so it can go out in the later than the agenda package. So when you read that, you've got at least some brain cells that are devoted to something new and different is coming tonight. Let's, what do I need to think about? So I'm interested in any changes you would like to that, to that guidance that's there. And then I also raised this question, are we getting the information we need from the department heads about the needs of the town, or are we just following their lead? And really what I'm getting at is we're pretty much focused on the same set of assets and we're just refreshing it. And we don't spend any time really on is that asset the correct asset, or are we refreshing out of inertia the same old asset we had but life in town has changed a little bit. One thing you know that was good when Matt brought the flail mower, that was out of the box, you know, it was something new, it was a different, you could interpret what he was bringing is that the current practice at that time was not meeting the needs of the town and the needs could be met better. So we're coming in with not only a new attachment for the backhoe, but we need a different excavator to make that attachment work best for the town. So we went from track to wheel and got the attachment. It made practical sense from an operational standpoint, and we helped him through the financial analysis, which I think was more than he was expecting, but I think it was a good exercise and showed that it had a good return on the investment to the town to make that change so [51:30] Committee member (nominating/motioning): that's the kind of thing i have noticed that durham has done the same thing but they're using a tract excavator and it's they have it doesn't work it works but it's slow can't be very efficient no it's not very efficient and you still got a trailer right out there right yeah [51:50] Paul Schuman: so i yeah i haven't i know it hasn't we haven't bought it because i can tell it hasn't been across the front of my property yet but it sounds like the funds are over there now i don't know what the process they're doing but that 's what i'm kind of throwing out there and it's always been a question in my mind with this committee and the department heads it's great that we have a list of items and we're going through that list and we're looking at when we should be prepared to refresh it but it's hard to, you know, and we're not the subject matter experts, so it's hard to tell our, do we have the right assets doing the right things, but they it [52:26] Committee member (questioning replacement costs): is up to them to come up because we are more like do you really need that right now, and with the fire chief on the squat truck, we have done that for years now because I got the thing cheap and then all of a sudden the machine became the value of the machine became different over the years and now we're not even questioning it anymore, right, I mean, and I don't know if that's [52:51] Paul Schuman: part of the inertia, but it's, it's we don't want to be the subject matter experts and we shouldn't be, no, we are, but we ought to be making sure that at least in my mind and I've always been, we haven't found a good way to do it, you know, we asked for the logs from the fire department how many miles [53:06] Committee member (questioning replacement costs): are you doing, how many runs are you doing, well it's because we are not the experts, we have the [53:12] Paul Schuman: right to have it explained by them, right, and but somehow I, you know, for me I'd, I'd like to find a way to get under that tent a little bit and say is you got 16 pieces of equipment, are they the right pieces of equipment for what this town needs right now, I don't know, and I'm probably never going to [53:33] Committee member (discussing subject matter experts): know, but I think in general as you say we're not the subject matter experts and in general we have to rely on these people, I mean Jesse, they all attend continuing education courses of one degree or another to, you know, one right one of them, and it is up to them, I'm not trying to slough it off on them, on the other hand I am, you know, I'm just reinforcing the fact that they know [54:09] Committee member (nominating/motioning): a whole lot more than we can ever, right, well just like the town's investment policy, fire service methodology changes, yes, but it is also methodology, it is also for [54:26] Committee member (questioning replacement costs): People that manage the department right, but they have to ask for permission or they have to justify what they want to buy, correct. They are always, and that's the nature of the beast, and it's my, in my experience, that they automatically will always ask for more than they really need, and it is up to us to make sure that they ask for the right. Yeah, and that speaks to your [54:53] Committee member (discussing subject matter experts): point, Paul. They're going to ask for more that they know they're going to get. How they do, yeah. [54:59] Paul Schuman: Well, I mean, they should, right? They should look at it through blinders. They have a function to provide for the town, and they should be solely focused on providing that best function. We're the balancers. We look at that function versus the affordability to the town and other priorities within the town. So, you know, I applaud somebody that comes in and says, this is my function, this is the way I need to provide it, I can provide better service, so I do it differently, and I need more money to do it differently. Well, that may be a great idea, but when we look, step back and look at the whole picture of what other priorities are within the town that come through this committee, we may agree or we may not, or we may challenge it and say, prove it, which we've done, and so I think we've helped the departments get more stuff by challenging and supporting an objective evaluation and say, yeah, now we can stand in front of town committee and tell everybody, it makes a lot of sense. I just want to make sure that we're, we have that mindset of don't just keep doing what we've got. [56:10] Committee member (nominating/motioning): And we may, it may be wise to send something to each of the committees, or like the recreation committee, is there something that you're going to be looking at that should be on the asset plan in the future? Again, yeah, we did that. I know we've mentioned it, you've mentioned it to them in the past, and we said this committee sent a letter [56:42] Paul Schuman: probably two years ago. Yeah, maybe it, and we get done the end of this year, send it again and said, if you, I mean, she talked about a big project, I have no idea what that is, but does that big project drive future capital expenditures into town? Somebody needs to make sure we're aware of it, because the year before you need something big, we aren't going to help you much. But if you can tell us five years, ten years. [57:08] Committee member (nominating/motioning): The roof unmail at all when we have a new fire station, is that roof going to be on the capital plan? [57:14] Paul Schuman: I'm expecting it will be. Right. Right. [57:18] Committee member (nominating/motioning): We have, in the future, we have a community center or something like that. Right. Is that going to be it? [57:26] Paul Schuman: Well, I mean, you know, you think about, you know, we as a committee are thinking when we get the future facilities built, we've got a roof to add to the schedule. We've got a heating system to add to the schedule. We'll have maybe another generator to add to the schedule. There are several large components in that facility that are not part of the structure [57:48] Committee member (nominating/motioning): And that won't be a little generator either, right? That's insane. So, you know, there's, and now [57:55] Paul Schuman: Fortunately, we're going to have for the roof 35 years to get started on it, and maybe the generator 25 years, so that's when we need to get it in there, not the year before, like, I don't, you weren't on the committee, but you know there was a year you'll remember when the select board member came in and said you guys need to put a million dollar road replacement program in, and by the way, we're going to do it here for next, how should we fund it? And I think we sat in this room and in about 15 minutes Said bond it, because there's nothing we, it's too late, we can't help you anymore, you have to bond it, and they did. But we weren't going to raise it, right? This committee was not going to raise a million and a half dollars or a million dollars in a year and a half. So if we keep people thinking that way, all right, I've said enough. If there's no other comments on this, I will send that out within the next week or so, giving them the heads up of this is the asset list that we have, review it, get ready for Your presentation. Fantastic. [59:05] Committee member (nominating/motioning): And this is the guidance, okay? I think that letter covers everything. Next [59:14] Paul Schuman: Item would be for discussion, documentation of the capital plan spreadsheet. I know this is everyone's favorite subject. We've struggled with the time to get to this subject. What's your pleasure? Are we prepared to have some type of discussion about it, or what are you going to do? As far as saving it in the -- Well, the idea was that -- the question over in the committee would require others to be in more intimately involved in that spreadsheet. Does the documentation, is it friendly enough, is it clear enough, does it get to the point of what that spreadsheet is doing, and help someone navigate it and operate it down the road? And the idea was that if we all looked at it and said I've read it and I don't understand the thing it says, then maybe it needs some help. If it's all Right, I've read it and I get some of it, but we need to do some things over here. That was the feed feedback and that's how we want to start. And then because the technical aspects of the spreadsheet and how it works can come later, I do. [1:00:35] Committee member (discussing subject matter experts): Go ahead, is it your vision that everybody should know how to manipulate this spreadsheet, or is it simply that we should all be expected to understand spreadsheets? [1:00:54] Paul Schuman: I don't think everybody needs to be able to manipulate it. I think you would want somebody that's familiar with spreadsheets, at least has an intermediate level of understanding. Year to year, there's very little manipulation. I don't think there's any formula stuff that's going on, it's more an understanding of it does it does its thing, but you have to prepare it in the assumptions and the data that you get from the town and getting that in all the right places, and then it creates the next year for you. I need to understand how does that work. [1:01:33] Committee member (discussing subject matter experts): I ask for entirely selfish reasons because they're given my workload on this and other committees, I and given my lack of expertise in spreadsheets, I have got to bow way out. [1:01:49] Committee member (questioning replacement costs): I think during our last meetings when we were discussing it, we were more looking at if there anybody if Paul gets sick or not here or something, if there anybody who can sort of ease into it and maybe eventually be able to do that, but we were looking at if we have at least one person on the committee that can do that, because I don't even have the proper stuff on my computer to really get into it. And but I think I had a feeling during the last meeting that Theresa was getting more and more into. It and I think that was one of the reasons why we made or the vice chair and it would be a good thing when we discuss it deeper for us to have. [1:02:44] Paul Schuman: Because this first part was really about understanding the English that's written. [1:02:48] Committee member (nominating/motioning): There that describes what's going on, your instructions are very clear, okay, I think okay. That, I mean, that's, I've never known you not to write something that wasn't very clear. [1:03:11] Committee member (questioning replacement costs): It gives you a good idea. And I read them over during the last summer. I read them over two or three times, actually, not that I, didn't learn it so much. [1:03:28] Committee member (nominating/motioning): I'm not going to come right out and volunteer to be the keeper of this spreadsheet. [1:03:34] Paul Schuman: No, and I don't think we're ready for anybody to volunteer to do that yet, but five minutes but. [1:03:40] Committee member (nominating/motioning): I think I've got seven years and I'm retired, then maybe I would be. [1:03:52] Committee member (addressing Corey): Corey, do you have any thoughts on that? I think your directions were very clear on like how to approach the spreadsheet. I think it's, I think it's just about getting more familiar with it. Like, you're the one that spends the most time with it, right? You're the one that created it. Yeah, so I mean, like, I like we said, we don't really want to commit like a singular person to really become the one that will head this, but like, I think just generally just becoming more familiar, like looking over things Like just to become more familiar. I mean, I'm ready to do that, not become up the head person, but I think it is beneficial just to become more familiar. And if Teresa does want to take on like the primary role, I think that's great, but well [1:04:46] Paul Schuman: Yeah, I think, I don't think, yeah, well, I don't think we're looking for anybody to take it over yet. I think what we're looking for is the documentation that's there helpful. It should be helpful to all the committee members regardless of whether you're technical or not. The only suggestion I have is if nobody has any specific points or suggestions for changes, is now that AI is readily available, I thought about, and I haven't done this, but I thought about running all of those pieces through AI with an instruction to make it simpler and more friendly. I don't know if you've used AI with any of your own writing, but I tend to do that now because I think it makes my writing better, but the descriptions, not the spreadsheet. You can, you can do AI on a spreadsheet and I'm not ready to do that on anything, but in terms of the descriptions of how it works, because I've had in another committee outside of the town, I've, I've had some documentation that I needed to do and I had to after the first draft to rewrite it several times to get it friendlier and easier to understand. I mean, it was fine for me, but because I wrote it, but it does seem to help. So I thought, well, maybe I'll run each of those little segments through there and see if it can make it friendlier and Simpler, because as the author, not only did I create the formulas, but now I'm describing the what's going on in those formulas, and it's too easy to write the way I understand it and you don't know what's left out, because I read it is very helpful. Yes, it just gives you [1:06:43] Committee member (discussing subject matter experts): You don't even have to accept what it writes. It gives you a perspective that you didn't [1:06:49] Committee member (questioning replacement costs): Necessarily have, right? It's also very irritating when I use my Gmail and my Gmail answers from [1:06:57] Committee member (nominating/motioning): Or proposals answers right. I just I don't know. We did an exercise at work and so I took AI i and i first what remember the old ad libs game where you write in an adverb or a verb or a noun. So i did that with give me a verb give me an adverb give me a noun guys in the up we're sitting around the lunchroom table. i said now we're going to write a state report with our adlib. it got a laugh out of everything but i had it set up so all i had to do was put in very little information and it would do a state report for a combined sewer overflow or something like that and they were like wow that all that came out of like 12 words that we've just put in. yep because i recently did a document for my golf club the format of the report and i wrote [1:08:11] Paul Schuman: up this letter to the members of my golf club and it gave me suggestions for improvements but then it gave me a comment would you like it more geared to a membership group than maybe what your business experience is from is helping you with. so i said yeah let's let's make it more member friendly and it certainly rewrote it everything I said was there but in a but you could tell it was geared towards a membership group and friendlier than the business tone I had in it. so it was very helpful yeah this isn't a whole letter I mean you'd have to do each one of these items separately and there's some of them are only a couple sentences long but maybe it [1:08:56] Committee member (nominating/motioning): would make it simpler to well i do have a suggestion certainly when we're manipulating the plan and typically theresa sits there and makes the changes maybe we rotate some people through it just so you're physically doing something with your plan. i'm sure theresa [1:09:19] Paul Schuman: would welcome somebody else in the hot seat just for familiarity [1:09:27] Committee member (questioning replacement costs): that would probably be a good idea yeah [1:09:33] Paul Schuman: i mean somebody else can drive yeah i'm certainly [1:09:35] Committee member (nominating/motioning): willing to make manipulations under adult supervision and color when you do that you [1:09:46] Paul Schuman: don't have to take the minutes because you can well it's all transcribed on the screen now he asked a question about that 's where he was going [1:09:58] Committee member (discussing subject matter experts): but just attention i mean it'd be great if that was someplace yeah there must be a way to do it like to say that if they if they can i mean if we can see it real time it's got it's got to be [1:10:12] Committee member (nominating/motioning): there's a way to save some i'm sure well it's got to learn how to write power well there must [1:10:16] Committee member (questioning replacement costs): must be there must be it must be possible to have a minute taker for a meeting right actually that [1:10:25] Paul Schuman: Would be, yeah, okay, why don't I do this then? Getting all your feedback is, I will go back when, as soon as I have time, which may not be this week, but is, to those couple of pages that I provided and run some AI on each of those with the idea to make it simpler and friendlier communication, and then I'll share that with the group. I'll save it separately and share it, and we can see whether it's helpful. If it's not, we'll leave it alone. If it is, then we'll say yay. [1:10:59] Committee member (nominating/motioning): The only other question I have is, I know, I know you have backups for the plan, yes. Are there several backups or just one? [1:11:17] Paul Schuman: The way I do it at home is I have all the gold copies that have ever been created. And as soon as I start updating a gold copy for the new season, I have to save it. Sometimes if I'm working like with Becky stuff, I got a lot of stuff to put in and maybe I don't have time to sit and do it in one shot. So I start putting it in and then I'll save it. And then by the end of the day I got 10 more copies, okay, of that gold copy with the adjustments now, and all of the adjustments are documented in the plan. So by the end of the season I might have 50 or more local copies of that gold copy with everything that we've changed. So I eventually will get rid of them, but and last year for the first time we actually did this, when we did the gold copy I sent it over to Becky and it's stored in the safe in the vault so that if lightning strikes then the gold copy will survive and the town will have it. And that's why we need people, that's why we need it to be simply completely documented, simply easy to understand, and eventually somebody, you know, will have to take it over if the town wants to continue using it. [1:12:39] Committee member (nominating/motioning): And need to figure out how to make that, can't even fathom that they wouldn't, because it is [1:12:50] Paul Schuman: fantastic. Yeah, I mean, that's the downside of doing something like that, you become a single point of failure and when you leave nobody else can pick it up. The upside is that if [1:13:02] Committee member (nominating/motioning): if we didn't have it, we wouldn't have it. If you could have marketed that to people [1:13:13] Paul Schuman: for an asset management well and there may be things like that out there but i don't you know i 'm not aware of them i don't know if the town is aware of them but it makes these meetings more fun it does we have you know definitely when we get to february we have things to change and yeah what ifs what else to do yeah okay so i will do that i will share that when i have something to share and then we'll move on next meeting october 28th 6 30 we'll start getting into our strategies or we have strategies from the last comprehensive plan. We'll look at them, see if they need updating, and also make sure that we are on all on track together to drive to successful completion of those, and then I will probably not be here on the 28th. Okay, you taking your trip? Yeah, I'll be in New York, I think. Oh, okay, different trip than I thought, but okay. Then if there's nothing else, motion to adjourn would be in order. So move. Okay, all those in favor, very good. Thank you all. Thank you for signing up for another year. [1:14:31] Committee member (questioning replacement costs): Well, thank you for doing it again.