Bangor committee votes to send safe outdoor space directive to City Council

[24:40] Katie Brydon: All right, we're live. Hello. Hello, everyone. I'm Robert. Oh, hello, and welcome to the... [24:52] Speaker B (unidentified): It's chaos here. Chaos here. Jamie's almost home, though. [24:58] Katie Brydon: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Glad you're here, Katie. Glad you're here, Robert. And hello, everyone. This is the December meeting of the Advisory Committee on Racial Equity, Inclusion, and human rights. We will begin by, today's meeting by doing, since we have members who are on Zoom doing a role of attendance. So I will begin with Leanna Fellis. Here. Mark Roth. Here. Shane Boyce. Here. Katie Robinson. Here. Katie Bryan is here as well, and we are tonight joined by our city manager Carolyn Lear and our council liaison Michael Beck. Thank you both for being here tonight. I believe we will have a few members that are joining us a little bit late, so I want to note that for the meeting minutes that we have one member who will be joining us on, or rather two members that will be joining us on Zoom. Speaking of meeting minutes, our outgoing secretary will not be doing minutes this evening. Is there someone that is available to take notes? Didn't do that even the last time. I was really bad. Thank you very much, Vice Chair Boys. Please note for the record that unfortunately the only member we're missing tonight is Gabrielle Wiley, who this will be her last meeting, so I do hope that she's able to pop in shortly. Sometimes I rely on some lip reading, so thank you. Thanks for telling me that. I appreciate it. All right, so the first action item we have this evening is for public comment. This will be open for the first 15 minutes of tonight's meeting, and we welcome anyone who is in tonight's chambers, and I believe now it's been officially approved that we can take Zoom comments, correct? [27:25] Michael Beck: So we're still going to go to council to vote on Monday, and then at that point, it's going to be not ready until the first meetings in January. [27:37] Katie Brydon: Okay. So until, based on next week's vote, we'll determine availability to give comments via Zoom. So tonight we'll just be taking comments in person for the first bit. [27:48] Michael Beck: I was going to say, before we go on, I just got a message saying that it's not live on [27:52] Speaker D (unidentified): YouTube right now. That's correct. Oh yeah, it'll just be on Zoom. Okay, and I'm not sure of [27:58] Katie Brydon: the logic. My boss Katie England won't be. That's what I was supposed to do with this meeting, so [28:04] Speaker D (unidentified): there's always been like a recording that gets up. Yeah, it'll get recorded. Oh, you know what it is? [28:08] Katie Brydon: It's because we can't do two at the same time and plenty forward gotcha yeah that's why work that out. Yeah, there was a reason in there. Thank you very much, Consular, for that update. So for those individuals that are in the room and would like to present public comment, we do have the next 15 minutes open. I do think that we have flexibility with tonight's agenda. If we want to make it longer than 15 minutes, we welcome folks to share. Just state your name and residence, and we will be happy to receive your comments. Are there any public comments for this evening? [28:49] Speaker D (unidentified): It depends on whether there are certain items on the agenda that will be available for public comment. I'm not quite sure whether the agenda has changed given this morning's unfortunate news regarding the encampment that's out behind Penobscot Plaza. [29:08] Katie Brydon: And I'm sorry that I didn't clarify, we do public comment open for every item on the agenda at the beginning of the meeting instead of doing it as it comes up on the agenda and the encampment is on tonight's agenda so we would take public comment for that now okay well [29:25] Speaker D (unidentified): I suppose I could begin with just some general thoughts on how everything is progressing and where my fears lie regarding the progression of that situation going forward now just taking the name [29:41] Katie Brydon: For the notes yes and I invite you to come sit here because I wasn't quite sure whether or not [29:47] Speaker D (unidentified): That table was even appropriate for you know other people for me to sit down for so I might as well just take a seat thank you so very much by the way yes of course yeah but anyways my name is Brian Ray I am a member of the appeals board here with the city as well as a Penguis employee at work within the LIFEAP program and again just to clarify I just had a couple of general things to say about this morning's unfortunate news regarding the encampment behind Penobscot Plaza and where my fears Lie as far as the progression of that situation going [30:25] Speaker E (unidentified): Forward let me interrupt what was the news this morning I didn't hear the news so after [30:33] Speaker D (unidentified): After the meeting in which city council has decided to postpone any direct city action regarding the removal of those that are over at Heath and behind Popscott Plaza, the railroad, CSX in particular, said that they were going to go about that process regardless of whether that delay was in effect or not. So yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So, again, just to give some general thoughts about where my fears are regarding that situation moving forward. There's been a lot of discussion among, I guess, local activist groups, political groups, etc., etc., that are trying to figure out, A, what is the best plan moving forward, and B, trying to come up with a solid solution, like where exactly are these people going to go right regardless of what happens. The way in which I see that particular process moving forward is that if a private company has the ability to basically do whatever it is that they're going to do regarding this encampment, then ultimately is going to become a public issue. Now obviously there are multiple tiers of public involvement, whether it's on the municipal level, the county level, the state level, or God forbid, the federal level. But as we move further and further beyond the jurisdictions of municipal government, moving into county involvement, moving into state involvement, the potential areas in which these people can go, the various oversights associated with those places are going to be far more concerning, especially if it gets to the state level. Because the way I see it, main state public reserve land exists, and it's places where literally everyone can go, regardless of whether they are housed or unhoused or not. But if it gets to a situation in which the unhoused here in this community, as well as many other communities within the state or this county or wherever, if it gets to a point where the only option that they have available is to go towards this public reserve land because there's literally nowhere else for them to go, it's going to become very dire in the sense that the state will basically oversee whatever sort of developments unfold there. Now to me, if you can't see the writing on the wall in the sense that you can literally create a concentration camp in the middle of Maine public reserve land, then I don't know what to tell you. So again, just to conclude my thoughts, I think the most important thing is to do everything in our power to prevent the process of getting to that level and see whether or not the city can get the county involved in order to prevent something like that unfolding at the state level. Thank you [33:48] Katie Brydon: very much. Yes, I really appreciate it. I suppose I could just thank you very much for joining us and for sharing that public comment. I very much appreciate it. Yes, absolutely. Are there any other individuals who would like to share any public comment with our committee this evening? You don't have to. [34:29] Jamie Beck: Jamie Beck, resident of Bangor, a person who can't stay out of things. There has to be some sort of movement forward on a safe open space because warming centers are not a solution. Emergency shelters are not a solution for everyone, and people need the flexibility and the dignity and autonomy to have their own space, even if it's not inside of a building. We have couples, we have people with animals, we have people who have various differences. I know myself, I would never be able to sleep inside of a warming center because I can't sleep with the waves of other people around me, so affording that bit of respect for people's choice is crucial in upholding their dignity and their rights. I get that the city is in a tough situation of trying to navigate this space in this moment in time, but I think that there are still options available to the city and to the partners that come to do this work together to afford people those choices and those rights and still try to maintain as much healthy options as possible. They're, we're not out of options. We get to continue forward on something that's going to allow people to have the things that they need, where I'll put a pin in it. Thank you, thank you [36:23] Katie Brydon: very much, I appreciate that. All right, seeing no other comments, I did want to mention for the notes that our member Ray Burke has joined us on Zoom. Thank you, Ray, for being here. Apologies for your illness, but thank you for being here, and Gabrielle Levy has joined us here in person, and so we very much appreciate that. So our next order of business is the approval of minutes from, actually the minutes were not included in the packet, and so I don't believe we can vote on them because you have not had time to review them. Though we have all the utmost confidence in the world that our secretary has shared that information correctly, I would like to obviously pause on an approval because those were not included in the packet, and we will vote for approval on them in January. Our committee business, it does that our first bit of business is to thank our outgoing committee members. This will be the last meeting for Gabrielle Wiley and Leanna Phallus. That said, I would like to save our thank yous and appreciation for the end, like you want to, I want to save some special time to appreciate their hard work, so I promise you have a meeting. Yes, we have received the meeting, and I apologize. No,, apologies. All right. And so that brings us to the encampment, the railroad encampment, and an update for discussion on that. As was shared throughout public comment, the encampment, actually, I would love City Manager to be able to give an update on, for those of us that either missed the workshop or haven't been caught up to speed with what's happening with the encampment. I know that there's lots of different levels of being able to stay connected with the changes, the very fast moving changes that are happening. So if you could, if we could all curate information at the same time, I think that'll give us a good foundation for a solid conversation. Sure. Sure. Would it be helpful to go back farther than just Monday or would that be overkill for this group? I personally feel like we've been giving give an update. Okay. And we're pretty, I think up until, well, after Friday's special workshop where the vote was by the City Council to delay the closure, we shared an update then, and the work that had been done up until that point by members of this committee and the City Council, then what happened between Friday at 11 a.m. And today would be great to make that we're all on the same page perfect thank you so friday's meeting city staff were given sort of a really short list of targeted takeaway items to come back to council with on monday the first and probably the most impactful takeaway for us was to follow up and get some sort of affirmative an affirmative indication from the railroad CSX regarding what their position was going to be with respect to the individuals camping on their portion of the railroad property. I'm not sure how familiar folks are with that property just some of you are very familiar. The railroad portion is the portion nearest to the river, and then the city owns a strip closest to Washington Street. And there are folks camping on both portions currently when we followed up with the railroad. They were pretty affirmative that they no longer wished to permit individuals to camp on their property and requested. requested and they didn't request in that communication but have since indicated that they may ask for a bank or police help should they have issues removing people from that property and we don't get there frankly I don't think that is a good outcome for anyone to have people removed in real time from that property it makes trauma and logistically Interestingly, there's no way to help to be as helpful to people, so we intend to have people in that space Thursday and Friday of this week in hopes of preventing that more traumatic experience of folks being sort of in real time asked to leave the railroad space. space. The second sort of targeted ask for city staff was to evaluate the feasibility of simply asking, that simply is probably not a fair phrase, asking individuals to move from the railroad property to the city's strip of property. And at the time we were having that conversation, I think the primary concern was whether there was space on that strip to accommodate all of the individuals who are currently living there it's pretty narrow it's narrow and long yeah and because of the time of year that we're in and there's a huge retaining wall there's some concern about you know life and safety with snow plows flowing you know throwing snow over the wall and so we certainly didn't want to say oh sure folks can live right along that wall and then have them be put in this way so we sort of our engineering department took a look and tried to analyze you know how many folks could safely live in that space if that was the route council decided to go as that was sort of happening and really fun day after having some conversations with the business owners in Penobscot Plaza it was clear that they were not supportive of that solution and because of how that land is situated the city property is essentially landlocked there's an unscalable wall to one side there's railroad property to the other side and then that end is owned by the Penobscot Plaza property owners and in various conversations they have indicated either an intention to do something similar to the railroad to say we don't want individuals passing across our property or even in some of the conversations indicated that they were considering fencing to prevent access entirely I, so that became really a challenging option to pursue, primarily Because folks in that space are regularly being serviced by case managers and healthcare providers, who certainly their employers are not going to allow them to trust them across property, and they can't be expected to sort of, and there is one sort of strip where it's not retaining wall, it's it's very, steep, dangerous hill, but not a reasonable way to access that property. So very quickly on Monday came to the realization that given the sort of land bound, landlocked position of that property, that it wasn't a viable option. And so we sort of presented that information to Council on Monday. In Council's sort of defense, I think our hand has sort of been played as it relates to that space, and it has since become really an exercise of trying to have conversations about how to minimize the chaos and harm to the folks that are in that space and that is an ongoing conversation that's happening with [45:01] Speaker E (unidentified): city staff and service providers when you refer to that space are you referring to the strip that [45:09] Katie Brydon: belongs to the city yeah and I'm really when I guess when I said that space I was referring to both the railroad property and the city's strip of property although for different reasons and for different motivations i think in both instances individuals residing there is long to an end in the nearer term than what we were planning for thank you for that yeah do you have more no i can stop there and answer a question that's i'm gonna i would kind of obviously offer the opportunity for questions from [45:51] Jamie Beck: the committee i hate you can go on to i'll [45:55] Speaker B (unidentified): go after katie i was just curious the number of individuals like how many so [46:06] Katie Brydon: i think it's kind of a moving target because a lot of the answer to that question somewhat depends on when you visit the space and folks might decide to not sit there one night because it's cold and uncomfortable and then the next night you know it's a little more comfortable the most recent information i have from yesterday was that there's 12 tents about six on railroad property and six on city property and somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 to 20 individuals residing there although you know we've had i've had conversations counselor beck and i've had conversations with others who've said the number is higher on any given day so not an insignificant number of people thank [46:56] Jamie Beck: You Gabrielle and then Mark thank you. So my question has less to do with how many individuals there are, but my understanding from the conversations that I have heard that are occurring with people who are unhoused is that they all have housing vouchers and they are waiting for homes to become available. Of course we are in housing crunch and it's the holidays and one of the biggest things that is repeated throughout every single piece of literature and research on people who are unhoused with the importance of community. So this is another thing that's like I've been part of these conversations happening and other groups where we're trying to figure out where could these people go and stay together. Is that a conversation that is being had on the city hall side where they're trying to figure out where we could maybe move them to as a group and have them be able to stay together and have access to resources and community connector and you know be able to stay together because obviously it sounds like they're not going to be able to stay where they are we want to produce trauma one of the biggest ways of producing that is keeping people together and when you say on the city [48:07] Katie Brydon: hall side you mean with city staff yeah council yeah city staff is not exploring location okay For folks to go. Okay. We did present a list of options to council. Last week. Was it last week? I know. I know. It was literally just seven, eight days ago. But no, there was no consensus around a potential location. We did have some meetings with individuals who are living in that space today and are hopeful to get sort of a list of things that they believe could be helpful to them. They presented some ideas that we're researching. Some of those ideas include alternative places, but not an actual physical plot of land to move their residents from the encampment to this other place. That is not being assessed at the moment. [49:06] Jamie Beck: So as a follow-up question to that, [49:09] Katie Brydon: where are they supposed to go that is a challenging and unanswered question [49:16] Jamie Beck: okay thank you yeah does [49:21] Speaker E (unidentified): the position of the railroad as well as the position of the pinochet plaza business owners does that affect the decision that was made to not close the encampments on December 19 at this point or that or has that remained [49:44] Katie Brydon: The position of the council, so the railroad portion of the property is private, privately owned property, and so for the individuals that are living on that property, it is certainly within sort of our traditional understanding of property rights for the railroad to say we would not like those people to be, they're not welcome here anymore, we don't want them to be on the hood. So that is a bit out of sort of our hands to make a decision on. They are making that decision on that property that they own. for with respect to the city-owned property you know i don't think i won't phrase it that way my concern about sanctioning anyone's decision to stay there is that if access is cut off and folks are trying to traverse a very steep icy hill there is we just can't be saying that 's a an okay situation Council did not direct us to remove people from that property but it is not going to be particularly safe right if people can't get in and out, particularly if there were to be a fence erected and someone were injured and needed emergency services, I think there could be some real safety issues that are kind of obvious. I would love to hear more about the meeting that you had with individuals living at the camp. Camp, yeah, I know there was a meeting, there's been a couple meetings, three meetings right at this point with members that are individuals that live at the encampment. I would love to hear about today's meeting and I would also, yeah, well, let's start right and stuff like that, okay. [51:50] Michael Beck: Sure, I mean, I can tell you that you can, you know, whatever you want, whatever I'm doing, yeah. So Connor Walker joined us as well, and when we talked to, it was Gabby and Alex, okay, were the two that we spoke to today, and the conversation started with the idea that, you know, whether we act or not with the railroad party, they're coming, and so it's a matter of what can we do to mitigate the chaos is that the railroad shows up. They don't have the relationships, they don't have, you know, their mission is simple, we want to clean this land and people are an obstacle, and that's not what we want to see happen. The hope was if we can talk to folks and have them come, at least come to the city side again, not sanctioning it, but at least we have control, more control over our property versus its private property in the realm of without writings. To that end, we talked about, well, what would be helpful to make that transition, so understandably so, the, with giving what's going on, they're upset, they're upset. Right, and I can understand that, you know, I mean, so we got some things Willie from Needlepoint's been, you know, kind of some immortal list after he's had a chance to work with them and bring it to us, but some of the things that were mentioned, and Gabby's not wrong, is that they're this close to the finish line of that voucher. Can we do a hotel? Can we really, is that a possibility? Can be, I don't know what's possible. It's not, but that wasn't asked. Yeah, I know that there used to be hotel vouchers, but that was like, I think, a covet era. Yeah, that's not an option now, but at the very least, for the folks that can move, can we have replacement tents available? Yeah, probably going to be destroying property because frozen. How are we going to pull them up? Also, how are we going to get the property over? Can people come and help move things? And also making sure we have enough bins. I guess what Gabby was telling us is that they only found five bins dropped off [54:04] Katie Brydon: so far not enough no need more so sorry interact so because last week director gunderson was talking about bringing in like a pod it sounded like is that 's i'm assuming not what you mean by bins are we already talking like an actual like tupperware or something yeah to pack [54:25] Michael Beck: things into, which I guess the thing was either you take wherever it ends up being across the railroad, wherever that, they would come to, they would help moving those things, and then you know that's separate than if they want things stored, you know, that's a would be a separate process, [54:41] Katie Brydon: but they also, okay, and the pod has been, okay. [54:47] Michael Beck: Other things they mentioned was also can we get phones, you know, we'll at least stay in touch with caseworkers, contact, you know, call landlords, you know, to go call landlords, and then also the possibility of can we get community connector passes or more tickets or what have you, but that, oh, and it was also suggested that the possibility of a winter clothing drive as well, but that was what they gave us so far, and then you know Willie's going to provide more. Yeah. [55:24] Speaker G (unidentified): A question, thank you. Has the city, I mean, I'm sure it's easy enough to do to calculate the cost. Sorry, I sound like I'm dying. Calculate the cost of, I'm not currently in law. Has the city been able to calculate the cost of what some of these tasks would be? Like something as simple as the bus pass thing, like that's going to be easy enough to calculate a bus pass for X number of days for X number of people. I mean, I guess the new days are, I mean, we just found out. Yeah, [55:57] Michael Beck: We had a conversation for a while, right, so we just found these things up, so those things we'll have to explore all these, what's, what's possible, and are there community partners who can, I know with other organizations who are, you know, asking that, hey, what can we do, so that's part of this too, is this list together so we can get that out, yeah, there are other groups too, but I just say I don't [56:17] Katie Brydon: think anything on the list was particularly cost prohibitive except for possibly the hotel stay, everything else I think was low cost of entry, I suspect there might be community [56:32] Speaker G (unidentified): members, citizens that would contribute if needed, right, like obviously if it's paid for with tax dollars we've already contributed, but if there is a need for an additional ask I think clearly we saw how many people turned out to the last meeting hoping to support these folks, I think some of those people would be able [56:51] Jamie Beck: able to contribute financially as well, this is probably a stretch given everything and the fact that this is literally happening because of CSA, but any contributions they made to help the people at this encampment would be a tax write-off for them and it would be an act of goodwill, I know it's laughable considering what we're in, but that would be one way of maybe framing it and getting support for this for the city, and then they could write it off their taxes, has that been explored at all, I don't think so no okay yeah because they could just they could potentially just write a check like they want this problem to go away that is a way for making this problem go away for them they could pay for putting these people up in hotel rooms until apartments come available and they can write it off on their taxes we know they make enough money [57:44] Katie Brydon: Yeah, the thing that I keep wondering about is how do we go from, you know, when I spoke with individuals at the encampment it was, yes, there was a railroad call that came up and they were really friendly and said don't get near the tracks, and there seemed to be like some sort of, my takeaway from last week was like CSX has bigger fish to fry, this is not on their radar, and now it's I'm gonna actually come and physically remove you on Monday, I mean I love to push buttons and I would love to just wait And see, and I know that's 100% not a reasonable thing, but it's just, it's curious how we got, yeah, to this point so quickly. Yeah, well, I will say one thing that I think is motivating them is that, again, time is elusive, but I think it was maybe one or two weeks ago that the city was reached out to by the main Department of Environmental Protection because there was a report of waste going into the river, and they had scheduled an inspection. They reached out to the city and the railroad. I see. And so in a lot of the conversations it has been, we would like people removed, and on the 22nd we're coming to do cleanup. And so I think that may have been. So they're more motivated from a partial trigger. I mean, talking about it generates news and coverage, and it may have, you know, went from the local cop upwards and garnered more attention. I think there's also been some concerns about liabilities on their part if they do nothing. Okay, thank you. Thank you for that. Yeah. Sort of reframing, appreciate that. My other question is, while yes, you know, I think that the solution is a hotel, if that's not something that we're able to offer, where will these individuals go, and especially like at night, right? I just feel like I keep hearing things about, you know, how many beds we actually have available in Bangor, how sustainable that is, and I think when we really look at it, you know, I think everybody is very much focused on that like news article that was like 120 000 McNamee Now I can't hope, and then you think, okay, if that's the money that we took after the last suite, and we learned a lot of what not to do after the last week, and so we have that money compounded with all those lessons learned, compounded with no solutions based on what has happened in the past, we have to do something differently. Like we, it's, it's untenable to not do something that, for so many reasons, right? Not only from like a fiscal perspective, but I just feel like, and I know I shared this podcast with you guys and i keep parking on it but like the fact that like at a national level we're looked at as an example of what not to do and we getting the same that article came out on november 21st like that 's like within a month we're doing it again so we do feel like there has to be some sort of solution so then it's like what can we as an advisory council or committee actually do to have you know the council understand that this has there has to be a plan because i personally think that if It was tomorrow that this was happening, or if the railroad was like, okay, we'll be there in June. I have a full, I fully believe that it would be like, wow, let's figure it out really quickly regardless. So, Brian, that's why we don't have six months, okay? We can still do something. [1:02:19] Jamie Beck: Right, questions. [1:02:24] Speaker E (unidentified): Yeah, please mark along the lines of what you thought you said earlier, that city staff is not currently exploring placement possibilities. I guess the focus primarily is on what we're going to do with this space, and the other is saying, why is the city staff [1:02:47] Katie Brydon: not focusing at this point on a particular physical location? Yeah, we would be looking for council's direction on a location. We've presented some options, but I mean, the city has a no campaign ordinance, so I don't think unilaterally city staff would be identifying a place for folks to camp. I can be very transparent, I think there's been some selective non-enforcement in the past, and maybe that worked, maybe that doesn't work. I don't, you know, I'm sure many people have opinions on that, but I don't know that we could sort of in a hate affirmative way say unilaterally me, the city manager, I'm gonna say yes, you don't have to follow ordinances in [1:03:43] Jamie Beck: this situation. Again, like I'm gonna be repeating myself, but there is nowhere else for these people to go. There are no housing for them, they're, they can't afford hotel rooms by themselves. It seems like there's not been any sort of movement on providing them with hotel vouchers to get them somewhere to go. So if we have a no camping ordinance and there is nowhere else for people to go, why have we not repealed that ordinance when it is not serving the purposes of helping people in our community? Yeah, respect that. I don't know, it's a question for me, it's not, I think that's a question for our council. Why is that still in ordinance? Because these people have nowhere else to go, and it's either you give them options or you give them the ability to have autonomy. And I know I'm putting you in the hot seat, I'm sorry, because I know where you stand on this and I know where you stand on this, but you guys are this night, and I would love to see more counselors here who could maybe answer that. Question, because I know where these two stand and I know what they've been working towards and I know that they stand with us on this. But when we have so much privileged apathy from people on council who think maybe they're not trying hard enough, when these are people who are trying, they're doing everything that they can in their power, and the resources just simply do not exist because people who actually do have those resources are withholding them. So like, is there a way of getting that rapidly repealed between now and when this happens? Yeah. [1:05:23] Katie Brydon: I mean, yes, there's always, the system does accommodate ways. Yeah, it would require special sessions and waking up to reading. We don't have time for that. No, I mean theoretically you kind of could do all of that in the whole time. Yeah, we, I'm calling a special session is generally a decision of the council chair or by vote of full council, I believe it's two-thirds vote. I'm not sure, I can't remember off the top of my head. [1:05:57] Michael Beck: Oh, yeah, for waiving the, yeah, two-thirds to waive the reading. Yeah. I was just going to say, though, that. It could be in that day. Right. Well, I was just going to say, as your liaison, I'm happy to champion any recommendation that you put forward. I can bring it before council. This is the recommendation. If it's an actionable item, well, then I'll work to get it on the agenda. And, you know, the votes will be what the votes will be, but I'm happy to shepherd it through the process wherever it leads if you have a recommendation. [1:06:29] Katie Brydon: I would like, thank you for that segue because I have been noodling on some recommendations that we can make. Right, I think that we have learned a lot last year and what we presented in terms of, you know, resolves, resolutions, policies, ordinances. We've learned a lot about what works, what doesn't, and we've also learned what is actually the most emergent in having the council respond quick. Side note, this whole learning curve came when we pushed forward a result for 287g to be enacted by, or rather to promise that the city of Bain would never participate in 287g agreement. I don't know if any of you saw that the governor signed LD 1971, which now makes it, you know, not that individual cities cannot participate in immigration services, so that's a great win for all of us. That said, in that conversation, what we had talked about at our last meeting was a legislative policy directive, which is an opportunity for us to say, well, not us, for the council to say this is what needs to happen and needs to happen as quickly as possible and without, I don't know, really when we were going through all of that with our city solicitor and really trying to understand what made the most sense to put forward a resolved, you know, and we've heard from our counselors that resolves don't do anything and this isn't really, I mean, besides the, you know, change on camping which I do think that's a good way to approach it as an ordinance, I thought a legislative policy directive could be the most useful in terms of ways that we could approach this, so I would love us to talk about what a legislative policy directive could look like for, us to present to council and for us to ask council to do, so I made a draft, you have it, okay, and I emailed it, Ray and Katie, to your emails, you want to look at it, this is just a draft of what this could look like. Does everyone else have? Yeah, we should, okay. And I think that if that's something we agree to, we could ask that, again, my understanding is that our liaison to council could bring this or have this added to the agenda for this week so that on Monday it could be voted on. [1:09:22] Michael Beck: Or it will be first reading and then they would be referred to committee and then it would be, yeah, then sent back in for a second if it survives that part of the process, that's right [1:09:34] Katie Brydon: yeah, how quickly I forget all of the steps, but I would like this, I thought [1:09:40] Michael Beck: that it would be, actually I don't know if the legislative policy director takes two readings, that one might just be a one reading, well we'd have to find out [1:09:48] Katie Brydon: official, yeah, you're final for sure, I'm too green to answer questions [1:09:55] Speaker B (unidentified): thank you, Katie, did you have a question, just it said link to review but there's no link [1:10:07] Katie Brydon: okay, I'm sorry, let me send that, okay, you're right, okay, so this I thought it would be, and I don't know if we have the capability to screen share, if you should really, I know, I know, I'm sorry, and maybe it's okay, I'll listen, okay, I did just send it to you, so thank you, and what this is, that is a very high level loose opportunity for us to discuss, to Gabrielle's point, instead of just sitting here and talking about what about this and what about this and why did this happen, what, but say, okay, we need to do something today because it needs to get on the agenda by Wednesday, I'm assuming, is when your agendas are finalized. Okay. I mean, by end of day Wednesday. Okay. If we could get something, and instead of just talking about what a legislative policy directive could look like, I think that we all agree that resolves and resolutions, and that whole process was not helpful, and this feels far more time-sensitive. So I created something that we could look at as an opportunity to say, is this what council needs to receive, does this actually stay the thing that we, in our capacity, think would be the most helpful thing for them to receive? And obviously if we have the opportunity to make any changes or edits that would also be helpful. The last page on this is sort of like if it were to be implemented, this is what it would look like, and this is how we could talk to council about it. But what it really outlines is, let me actually call it up. So I'm also looking at it. Excuse me for one second. [1:12:39] Jamie Beck: This is fantastic, Katie. [1:12:48] Michael Beck: Yes, Tom. Just to let you know, I just looked it up. And so two readings are only required for ordinances and appropriation themselves. So this would not be two readings. [1:12:57] Katie Brydon: So how quickly did we get this through, hypothetically? [1:13:01] Michael Beck: Well, I mean, if it gets filed with the clerk, but before end of day Wednesday, say then it would go on to council agenda Monday and the clearance is happening when [1:13:16] Katie Brydon: So the railroad has indicated that they would like folks off their property. So this, what this does, because I agree that, like, let me see what this says, what this says, what this outlines is that we have to have a safe outdoor space for folks to move to too. I think that we've, you know, heard from so many community members, many of us have met with individuals living at the encampment. And, you know, I think that Jamie said it best, like, it really all comes down to, we have to be able to allow individuals to have their own agency and dignity in determining where they're going to live, and removing them from where they live, though it is obviously for a very reasonable safety reason, to not have options and or to give options that are not tenable, like a voucher that for no, for no available housing, we have to think of something because it's a human rights issue at this point Right, and we are the advisory committee for human rights. And so what this does is it says the first page is pretty much these are all the reasons that these are a human rights issue. At this point we have unsheltered residents that have vouchers but can't utilize them. Our city has already spent over a hundred thousand dollars to clean encampments and it hasn't actually resulted in a better solution. We are now hearing of, you know, closures happening and overnight warming. There's even less beds available. We want to work together with the individuals at the encampment, and to Member Wiley's point earlier, we've seen time and time again that displacing folks and taking them out of their community only results in so much of a lack of health and safety, welfare, disease. We want to mitigate that for the entirety of our Bangor community. And then there are so many nonprofits here and that is been the most mind blowing thing to me personally, is to hear what all of these nonprofits and community partners say, here's how we can help. Here's what we can do. But I don't know that they're at the table having this conversation with city leaders and being able to say to council, hey, you need that, you need a spot, I've got a spot, you need tents, I can have a grant to get all these tents, you need this. There are so many people that have resources in the city to even vice your voice point. We have people who are eager to help and want to get involved. Is that a matter of doing some sort of drive for funds? Anyways, the first part lays out why this has to happen and why a safe outdoor space is a reasonable solution. And I think that the last paragraph on that first page It says, whereas a safe outdoor space is a temporary transitional stabilization measure distinct from permanent housing intended to reduce harm, improve public health outcomes, and serve as a bridge to permanent housing when units become available. We can't just say, you got to voucher, wait your turn, hopefully don't die alone under a bridge in the meantime. We have to say that we are going to help you and give you a spot to be safe and be in a community. And when I went to that union meeting with the leaders of the encampment, what really resonated with me is that they were like, we don't want to be hopeless. Like, I don't want to live here forever. This is not my, like, oh, I refuse to be a part of society. I want to live and attempt forever. Leave me alone. This is, I'm in a bad spot. And I am fully aware of my choices. And I'm making those choices. And I will pull myself up and out of this. But I need a minute and I need some help and resources and I will get there. But saying you're gonna live in this tent for the rest of your life is something nobody wants. And so I think it's really important to mention that as well, to even go to counselors who say like, you know, you can't just live here. This isn't some like utopia that you're designing and you love to live there because you don't want to pay taxes and you want to sleep outside. That's not what this is. This is not something that nobody wants. And so what can we do to support and help you until you are able to get to that point? The second page is how to do that. The second page is how we, how the council can direct the city manager and the city staff to identify where these places are. And I really appreciate you saying that, Carolyn, that you know you, that the city staff can't go out and look for spaces to camp. That's a really good, like I said, reframing of understanding what the city's role in is this. So how we can advise council to direct the staff to find a place that's suitable and to provide at a minimum the resources that could help, potable water, a place to go to the bathroom, things that they can do so what they can have clean clothes and go on a job up interview, or like not have to wake up and walk a mile to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night so you get a good night's sleep and you can be a more productive member of your community. Operations and governments, the individuals living at that encampment have already a government system in place, which is I think really just an incredible way of self-governance and making sure that everybody is safe and cared for, and again speaks to the value of community. And then again just building in what staff supports, what community partners are going to be able to support them, and how the individuals out there will have a seat at the table as well in identifying. It feels like a lot of things are happening but in silos, right? Like, we already have people in the encampment who wanted to, you know, take on a, have taken on a leadership role and are excited, you're not excited, are eager and committed to helping shepherd a change for what their encampment might look like. There are non-profits that are working on this issue. There's the counselors talking to the same city staff over and over again. How are we giving them all at the same table? So this, what this is it's basically a directive that says the advisory council thinks that the city council should do this now, and that would in effect free up city staff to take up the ability to find sites and take this on. This is not perfect, you know, already I'm thinking like, oh my gosh, maybe we shouldn't put hotels in here, I don't, I don't know, like this, there's plenty of things that can be changed here, but that's what we need to decide tonight so that we can leave this meeting and say like, okay, there's at least something in the works that the council can take and do with it instead of just like I said, like, what are we going to do, have another meeting where we talk about why we can't help these people? Yeah, yes, so we make a, right, we push this to city council, city council has thoughts and feelings and concerns, does that mean it bounces back to us for a review and revision, or does the council take review and revision? What does that look like? Great, I'm envisioning that this will not fly as it is, not because I don't think it's good thoughts and feelings by lots of people. Yeah, fair, well to [1:21:16] Michael Beck: that point so the other option would be is to ask for to be put on a committee right go with committee first and then just like what happened with gov ops where the you know the 287g groups came through and they looked we looked at it and then made recommendations and sent it back and then came back again that 's an option too if you're looking for more of a collaborative process that would be the route to go collaboratively [1:21:46] Katie Brydon: what do people think about the process, about this, about what we should be doing as an advisory [1:21:52] Speaker G (unidentified): Advisory committee change, I think, and this is just my hot take, but I think we've been to multiple meetings now where we've heard the council, no offense, say we have to have a plan, we have to have a plan, we have to have a plan, but then no one ever even tries to make an actual plan. Giving them this says here's plan, get started. And like I kind of feel like someone just has to say to the council, so you can sit around and put all your thumbs and talk about the plan that you need to have and maybe write one a year from now, it's not going to help anybody right now. Adopt this right now, it's not perfect, but it's a lot better than no plan at all. And like I just think we've wasted enough time kicking this can around back and forth saying, well it's not perfect, it's not perfect. No solution is ever going to be perfect. This is not a situation we can just, oh wow, everything's magic, rainbows and unicorns and butterflies, it's just not realistic. But this, putting this in front of them says here you go we did a lot of the heavy lifting for you, amend it if you wish. I don't care if we see it again, I would rather just give them and say do what you want with it, if you need to they can edit, figure it out yourselves and do it. At least then they've got the tool, right? Like I'm sick of this whole like we have to tell them this and then they say oh no and then it goes, that is a waste of everybody's time and people are literally going to die if we don't move on this [1:23:28] Jamie Beck: not to mention Bangor is going to continue being on shitless of as to how we manage crises like this. Is at least showing we're trying, we care, we're trying to do something. No, it's not perfect, but it's something. Yep, and something is what we need right now, because as it is, even if we were to adopt this the next council meeting, it's still too late, which is a tragedy for the people who are going to be kicked off of this land on Friday, like that's only a couple of days away, but this is something and it puts forward a plan for the future, because we know this is, we cleared Camp Hope, now we have a camp on the CSX land, and I'm sure that there are plenty of other encampments around the city that we're just not talking about right now. So like this is something and this also will give people a place to go where they can access resources and it will make it easier for health care providers to actually find these people, because my experience working in mental health is that I hear from case Managers, we weren't able to find this person, and people will come into the emergency room, and they'll be like, I'm having a mental health crisis, and we'll be like, okay, we're gonna treat you in the emergency room, and then they're like, okay, I need referrals. They give them referrals, and then it's, oh, we can't reach that, they don't have a phone number, and the case managers can't reach them because they don't have a phone number, and we don't know where they are because there is no centralized location. For people, so if we were to adopt this, the council were to adopt this, it would be something I think that's what we need right now. I think that the value of this. [1:25:06] Speaker E (unidentified): Is that there is a short-term plan as well as a long-term plan, so that people can view it as well. We're not just talking about this encampment for now, we're talking about this encampment for now, but also any other encampments, and how we're going to approach that from a policy standpoint, what are we going to do procedurally, and I think that yeah, it's not perfect, but it's it's something which has a good, a good rationale behind on it, so that I think that it adds credibility to what's being. Proposed. Yeah, thank you. [1:25:53] Speaker B (unidentified): Oh, sorry, Katie. Yeah, it's okay, let me lower. So can I just back up a little bit? Yeah, I don't care with everybody. This might be a question for counsel, so if you have another advisory committee that puts forth, and I'm not going to use the terms right, this is a legislative policy, what is this called? Yes, if you have something that's in the process of being reviewed, can there somehow, and I know you have to call emergency session for counsel, which even though know it's Tuesday, you can't meet till this. Following Monday, if the legislative policy in motion affects a date of something happening before the emergency session of council, is there some sort of rule that can pause? So for example, can, because this is moving forward, is there any way that we can pause what's happening on Friday, because it's in motion to be reviewed by council on Monday? [1:27:00] Michael Beck: My answer would be no, just because what's happening on Friday is dictated by the rail room, you know. Okay, yeah, so that's kind of it's setting parts out of our hands, so. [1:27:13] Speaker B (unidentified): There's no way that the council can reach out to the railroad and say that, you know, we've come forward with the human rights motion, legislative policy, all the freezing to say this, and we're just, we just need one, like, a week extension so we can review this to ensure that we don't violate human rights. At this point, I feel like the railroad's not going to want bad press either, right? No, I [1:27:36] Michael Beck: think you're saying this may be a question better answer the city manager, but my impression though is that sort of conversation already happened, and the railroad said no, sorry, we've got the main dep breathing on our neck, we gotta, they gotta go, sorry. I just don't know how much [1:27:53] Speaker B (unidentified): saying I just don't know how much weight this could potentially carry, because before you didn't have anything, but now if you're like, no, I have an actual advisory committee on human rights coming forward with a legislative policy, and this all needs to be paused until we can figure it out, I don't know if that's enough weight for you for council to deal with that, but that's just a thought that I had to try to at least get us a little bit more time, and the politics around that might help. Yeah. [1:28:23] Jamie Beck: Okay, I'm done, thank you. I think I would ask you what your take on that is. Do [1:28:29] Katie Brydon: you feel like they're pretty staunch on this, or do you feel like there is an opportunity? I mean, I have two sort of thoughts. I mean, if the direction was for me to reach out to the railroad, I would be looking for Council direction before doing that. This sort of Council has set a policy that the city is now following at high level. I try to be an administrator and let council be the policy maker. My practical answer is my sense is that their primary concern isn't humanitarian. It's sort of liability based, and so I don't, I don't want to be a pessimist, but I realistically have a ton of... Yeah, I understand that, and I also understand that, like, to be perfectly honest, I just feel like another week is just going to give the council an opportunity to be like, let's send this back, and turn away from the camera. I would like to advance this as quickly as possible. Well, I would like a motion, but I also see, seeing as Jamie back brought this to our attention, I would like to give you an opportunity because I know you have something [1:29:59] Jamie Beck: Additional to share give you the motion is it no I'm sorry about that I heard during my news meeting yesterday was it only yesterday it was only yesterday council strongly saying multiple times that this is not their wheelhouse and that people who whose wheelhouse this is are the ones that need to be moving forward with the plans etc and correct me if I heard that incorrectly I would like to recommend or suggest whatever in whatever capacity of the citizen that I have to have this body help Guide and make the recommendations decisions around the can I it's good here you go yeah thanks and it's double-sided I didn't realize that but I thought I heard that there was a desire to bring lots of organizations together at the table with like council with city staff etc knowing that council strongly said this is not their wheelhouse yeah I would suggest that it would be this body's role to lead that to be the helpful decision makers as like guiding bringing those people to the table and Being part of that I know you're just advisory but I think that this type of a situation could be best done with the guidance of this body rather than putting it back on council to figure it out because they self-proclaim say this is not their will this is not their thing and they are the policy makers is the legislators this is more of a working group to advise with the expertise in the room so I would strongly recommend that this be the body that in bringing that to the council [1:32:31] Michael Beck: Hopefully that makes sense yeah well I would just say you need to have to be careful about the wording because remember this body doesn't have decision-making authority so it would have to be very strongly worded yes please you know seek our advice but please listen [1:32:52] Katie Brydon: Well I'm thinking it in the aspect of my role on the opioid settlement committee [1:33:02] Jamie Beck: For the county we are also an advisory committee but we've been tasked with gathering what it is that needs to be assessed to make the assessments and then make the recommendation as the people who have the expertise these are a lot of the people who have expertise in a lot of areas that touch this and in human rights so gathering more people to the table and then making the recommendations to council saying hey we've we've done the light work this is what we're recommending that you do just as You're doing with this policy you're just I think that I [1:33:44] Speaker E (unidentified): Think that we, the difference between our group and the group that you're involved is, we haven't been tasked with anything regarding this. Is something that city council has not said to us, okay, why don't you spearhead this thing and why don't you be involved? They haven't done that, and I think we have to be careful, like what you were saying, we're not decision-making, we're advisors. If, let's assume we present this to the council and the council then comes back and says would you be involved in an advisory capacity and maybe leading this process, I think that's all that's fine, but I don't think we can take it upon ourselves to say we're gonna, we're going to be the ones who are going to hit this up, because that would be a complete and immediate turnoff. [1:34:40] Jamie Beck: I'm happy to show a comment. [1:34:49] Speaker E (unidentified): Thank you, Jamie. [1:34:51] Speaker B (unidentified): Yeah, and I might get this wrong, but I don't think it's, to Mark's point, I don't think it's because we don't want to. I think it's because the language of the bylaws or the ordinance of this committee doesn't allow us to. So I just want to make sure that we make that clear that, like, we're very passionate and we want to, but, like, we have to follow the way that Liana and Katie, you know, founded this group and wrote the way that it is. [1:35:18] Katie Brydon: Did I get that right? Well, Liana's our last OG member. I know. So all the historical knowledge leads tonight, but I just, you, when I'm not, who's sending this board, I'm thinking what happens once it leaves our space, when it gets to that location. I had every faith that one of us would be here to respect all of that, but if I were, if I were city council and I had my hat on right now, I'm like, okay, who are your points of contacts in every organization that have all co-signed onto this particular plan? That would be mine, I want, I would want that as part of this because that becomes easier for me, like, okay, yes, we've got all the players at the table, this is the plan. My worry is that a somewhat plan with nothing to it does not become acceptable to sell a plan with people, you know, and I'm not sure who were fully consulted on this, becomes more okay, we can get on board with this because we know who the parties are in all of this. I'm just concerned once we make that recommendation in that timeline is so, it's here, it's, we're at that, it, yeah, right, yeah, and I don't know that it was fully answered what happens when those questions come up is council going to come in and say oh yeah we're going to go redo this or hey can we bring that to you should we have you know like it works i'm still a little wishy-washy what happens if the council starts having questions and what their next steps would be if they feel like yeah we love this we would just like some more some more meat potatoes to this or you know what i mean i do because i do and the urgency is It's, it's not just palpable, you know, yeah, and I feel like just having, being at that, you know, public workshop and, you know, public last week's meeting, there were so many leaders in the space who did show up to speak to council and did show up to say like, here's my recommendation. So I guess I was in my head thinking that council was already aware of the players. What are they, these players? And I think that is the question, is this plan made with those players saying, yes, we're co-signing on this Legislative policy, I don't, okay, I feel like right now what we're talking about is like drilling down to one element of this policy, the non-profit organizations and community-based programs. So I'm, I'm saying the meat potatoes, I know what we're saying, we need to do something because we are, we are at the cliff of people needing to move and everything, but what we're saying is, here is this plan, we're saying, here is this thing, we're trying to lay this out for you. Can you give us a little more meat Potatoes, other than, other than the words that are just on paper, yeah, and I would say I would be able to name the individuals that have publicly spoken that they would support it, and I do, to Jamie's point, that was like one of the counselors, the counselor's main concerns was like, this isn't in yesterday's meeting, he was like, you know, we have so many groups that are already doing this. I would pay for something to go to the roads, get blindsided, and then have them come back and they're like, oh Committee, you know what I'm saying, like they didn't realize that, like they're like, yes, we're here, we didn't know we're here in this capacity, is that, do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, I do see what you're saying. I just feel like this was meant to address the fact that was like a main concern, and you do have the partners because you're talking like, you the space is out zero to 30 days, and the question is, these community partners, are they also saying yes in zero to 30 days? You see what I'm saying? like yeah we have this aggressive timeline yeah and to be fair a lot of this too when we talk about that people that should be involved in this decision is what this thing looks like first of all safe outdoor space is a recognized operational model that we like we're not this doesn't recreate any wheel this is like hey this wheel already lives and breathes do it here are the we already have heard from all the people who want to help and also the i think the only people that matter are the people who live there and they have already, like, so many of their ideas aren't even on, you know, and that, so like this would be so much longer and so much more inclusive of that, and I feel like that is more of a piece. Hold on, I saw Shame, just a quick question [1:39:44] Speaker G (unidentified): about walking chewing gum at the same time, but we agreed to move this forward to council tonight and then in the meantime, because it's not going to end up on their agenda until Monday, maybe you and I do a little bit of legwork and outreach to communication, hold together a group of people who can go and speak during public comment or sign off or sign up or, you know, pen a letter of support or something that we can then give to council when they read this at the meeting and say, and also here's all this buy-in, so that way they've got the directive and they've got the additional information in hopes that they won't be like, we need a list of people. Yeah, I do [1:40:27] Katie Brydon: understand that concern and that, I know it's like that seems like have something thrown at you and be like, oh okay, now I gotta move on this one, you know, and yeah, sometimes, especially every place is limited resources, right, and coordinating resources is a task, all of these things that when we can say it's not just this idea of like this thing, we've also come to you with the, this person, yeah, they're going to do that, you know, it just becomes, yeah, we really thought about what we're handing to you in this situation. Yeah, no, I think that is a good point and I do think that yes, my concern was like having this updated, but you're right, having a sign off of partners, right, because I mean this is the language that we're talking about that they're, they're voting on this, they're, they're working on that, but what's that side document, yeah, that thing that, you know, you're saying that you work on, which is that, okay, easier, yeah, and this is where you're [1:41:24] Speaker G (unidentified): Sleeping helping, you know, even if it's not like a hundred percent a firm commitment to say like my organization will do xyz, but just say we are in support of this plan, we will be able to [1:41:35] Katie Brydon: contribute something, we don't know what yet. Yeah, I think that is totally reasonable, simple, and that is a good recommendation and a good way to get it to individuals. Well, I just [1:41:47] Michael Beck: want to clarify my question. This is as an individual counselor just trying to understand what's in front of me. Did I take this to be kind of a fill in the blanks from the details, like as far as who the partners are going to be and everything else? This is the tool that says okay, a lot of the conversations ended well. Council hasn't directed this to this council directly as the council has directed us. Now we're saying okay, we are directing you to move forward. The pieces will come back to us from staff because they're going to have to ask for, you know, preparations and things that comes a lot of side on, you know, and there will be a series of RFPs probably if this is what's put forward. But if I agree, is that a reasonable interpretation that this is basically the tool to say, you know what, council has directed to move [1:42:32] Speaker D (unidentified): forward on this project, start bringing those pieces. Yeah, absolutely, and I think too, I mean, [1:42:40] Katie Brydon: I guess we would have to decide now, or first we would have to decide if this should go, if we should go and send this to council, and then if there are any changes that need to be made, you know, we could update the link. There's a, you know, Google Doc, it's a Google Doc. We could go either tell me now or you can go in before end of day tomorrow. So what you approve tonight? Well, that's right, that's right, we'll get to see what, okay, yeah, any changes would have to then be reduced by amendment. You're right, you're right, I'm sorry, he's winning, I swear about the back. Yes, thank you very much. [1:43:25] Jamie Beck: It is 7.30. Who, it is? Oh. Just listen in for it tomorrow. [1:43:35] Speaker G (unidentified): Oh my gosh, wait, it is 7.19. My laptop's at 7.30. [1:43:38] Speaker E (unidentified): That's a school laptop. Well, [1:43:45] Katie Brydon: thank you very much. And so, let's at least, I would like to begin by seeing if we can get a motion to move, or a motion to vote on whether or not to send this to council. [1:43:58] Jamie Beck: I actually do have one last question. So can I ask? Yeah,, yes. Okay, so given all the conversations that have been happening on this CSX, you're the councilor that's still here, and you're the city manager, and I know you're new to working with the city, but you've probably seen the dynamics of the council. Do you think this would pass? Or have the chance? [1:44:24] Michael Beck: Are you asking for committee versus full? Yeah. I mean, I guess that's asking me to, I guess, speak for the councilors and not by show. So I'm gonna decline. [1:44:34] Katie Brydon: That's lucky for him. That's what I'm thinking about, because I know like they say, they're like, oh, give us a plan. [1:44:40] Jamie Beck: But then when we show up with something that's like, here's something you can do. [1:44:44] Katie Brydon: They're like, not like that. [1:44:46] Jamie Beck: That's what I'm so afraid of happening. [1:44:49] Michael Beck: I mean, I guess I would go back to what we mentioned before that, you know, this is your advice. This is your advice. Council's going to do what it comes to. Yeah. [1:44:57] Katie Brydon: I think we should do it. Just do it. Full sent. Do it. Yeah. [1:45:01] Jamie Beck: Okay. So can I get a motion? Motion to pass this resolution. Can I get a second? [1:45:06] Katie Brydon: Legislative call. Okay. Now I want to open it up. Are there any edits or changes that any individuals see that they are not comfortable in the way that it now stands sending to council I'll [1:45:22] Michael Beck: just mention this because it was from the meeting today one of the things that when it was talked about the potential of a safe outdoor space they did mention that it was Gabby who said that they weren't comfortable with the idea of 24 7 support yeah so I guess if anything because I knew I read in here that Lauren said it talked about how you wanted a mechanism for them to have inclusion collaboration if they decide like other models have said yes we should have that then yeah because this is just based on the model right so maybe not again just based on the feedback you do with the community but that [1:46:02] Katie Brydon: was feedback we got today okay and to be honest like that is sort of your perception it was [1:46:09] Speaker D (unidentified): under the staffing and support service sure 24 7 support yes and that probably again I was just [1:46:17] Katie Brydon: putting what the model says but if i were going to be like oh who's staffing this and how do i pay for it yeah right so that 's like the most the piece that i'm the biggest worry about so i mean we could yeah that's that is true yeah we could have it say that staffing and support presence will be available but not the 24 7. The same way that it's available now, right? What's the deal with that with staffing and support services? Yeah, and that enough, yeah. Okay, thank you. Because I feel like they'd be a really good [1:46:54] Jamie Beck: resource for this yeah in terms of that staffing and support not 24 7 because i also agree i don't think that 's a good idea in terms of autonomy and respecting people's rights to privacy because god knows they don't have enough to try so like maybe like business hours yeah okay like well mark [1:47:14] Katie Brydon: said provided it's needed, yeah, or as needed, because I like that, and that applies to the acting and [1:47:21] Jamie Beck: when their mission is, it also aligns with other service providers. I think 24 7 is really probably [1:47:29] Katie Brydon: probably not practical, yeah. Okay, all right, so with that amendment of staffing and support services under section two letter d backing and support presence at the site provided as needed based on both the recommendations from the individuals that live there and also with a fiscal lens, let's take a roll vote. Mienna? Mark? Yes. Gabriel? Yes. Katie? Yes. Ray [Jamie Beck: yes, Shane] yes, and Katie, that's seven yay, zero notes, and so we will submit. I'll make that amendment and you can send that to, how would I send that to you? How would that look like? Yeah, I mean, you could send it to me and then [1:48:35] Michael Beck: I could then send it to the city. Yeah, then I would send it to the city clerk. Okay, they have to send a digital version. Exactly, they can put it in their sure template. Okay, so send to [1:48:46] Jamie Beck: to Michael. Wonderful. [1:48:50] Katie Brydon: Well, once again, meeting with one topic, despite a very rich agenda. And I very much appreciate everyone's pace on this and flexibility and commitment to actually making a change. Thank you very much for that. Katie? Sorry, I'm still stuck on. [1:49:13] Speaker B (unidentified): So I don't know who reaches out or who's communicating with the railroad, but I still think something should be said to them, whether they want to be humanitarian or not, at least they would know that this is going forward, and then it's on them to make that decision, and not us saying oh what if, what if they knew that this was happening. I don't know, it's just my thought has [1:49:38] Speaker E (unidentified): that already been done [1:49:41] Katie Brydon: I mean, when council delayed, made the decision to delay the date of the NICU, you reached out with the [1:49:54] Speaker G (unidentified): NICU. I would have thought it might be kind of crazy and weird, but it may be possible. So we heard at the council meeting two Mondays ago now from two of our state legislators, others, Representative Rader and Rana, and they both said if there's anything we could do to help let us know. I wonder, I'm not sure whose district includes the encampment. I think it's Representative Rana. I think she has that little sliver there. I want to [1:50:34] Michael Beck: say it might actually be Faircloth. I think that might be Sean too. Yeah, Sean Faircloth. [1:50:39] Speaker G (unidentified): So it might be possible to reach out to Representative Faircloth and see if he would be willing to act as a liaison between the city and the environmental agency and ask them to pump the brakes at least a little bit so that there's less pressure from the state for the railroad to clean up the encampment and at least buy us a little bit of time. [1:51:09] Jamie Beck: Is anybody else here in this district? I am. I'll reach out to him. Thank you very much. And he knows. [1:51:16] Katie Brydon: Thank you. Although I am probably out of order, I would just say I think my suggestion would just be to be careful about on behalf of the city. Oh, you're saying that phrasing? Yeah, that's fair. [1:51:33] Jamie Beck: As a private citizen. Okay, perfect. Yeah, because that's what I'm going to be. Five minutes. [1:51:44] Katie Brydon: That's your normal one. All right. Yes, with the with the limited time we have left, I do just want to take a moment to show extreme gratitude for member Fella, who served for two years, if not three, as the chair. As the chair of this advisory committee, was a founding member in 2020, and has served for five long years, providing her expertise, her very sharp, and no, truly, very thoughtful, broad scope and so much expertise in terms of disability advocacy and equity. We are so indebted to how much you have shared with the city, how much time you have given to the city, and how much leadership you've provided. I know when I started on this committee, Leanna met with me, so organized. Unfortunately, none of those skills transferred, but I feel like it will save me. I think that. So thank you, Julie and Gabrielle, thank you so much for your many years also on this committee. Always ask me the hard questions, an incredible bulldog for inclusion, equity, justice, and then bringing so many of your different hats to the table in social work as a student and sitting at our pride table for many, years and just being a really, such a strong representation of what great work for advocacy looks like in the city. So thank you very much. We are very indebted to you both and really appreciate all the time that you shared with us. And you'll be very,, very much missed. You're gonna have wonderful new committee members. Come on we're going to bring such great perspective we do we have three great committee members meeting us for our January meeting so we very much look forward to that just remember give them the packages accountable make sure they show up yeah that's that's our bar right now show up but I also you know because Leanna spent so many years supporting the annual report I know that was on our agenda and that is due and that is also something that I'm happy I you know we've created it the past Couple years so I'm happy to draft up something for us to look at our January meeting for the annual report any other words updates thoughts before we adjourn thank you Katie thank you I know it's going to be really weird yeah it's going to be very strange range moving forward without you two. [1:54:47] Speaker G (unidentified): You are so full of energy. [1:54:49] Katie Brydon: I'm so sad. You have to learn. [1:54:52] Michael Beck: Say when you realize, when you both realize how much you miss this, [1:54:56] Speaker E (unidentified): Please fly again. [1:54:58] Jamie Beck: So about that actually. [1:55:02] Katie Brydon: Well, she's not telling you, she's only emailing me about other things. I'm like, sure. I got it. I'll get back to you. [1:55:11] Jamie Beck: I'll get back. Yeah I need to get through the next couple of months like I 've been told that what I have been trying to do since September is technically impossible you're gonna hear in December I've been doing it not well but I'm doing it but like that's part of why I didn't reapply this because I'm like this is just I feel like I was not able to provide the time and the energy to it between our meetings that it really deserves at this point but like when I finish school [1:55:45] Katie Brydon: Yeah, you've juggled a lot, so thank you. Yeah, it's not the last you're seeing. Yeah, do I, is it required, right? I don't know. I don't know if it works, term limit. I don't care. I don't know if there's a term. There is, like, that's why I wasn't allowed to be applied, because I'm turned out. And I don't think it's something, I don't think it addresses breaks. And well, good news is with all of you keep challenging everything. Well, we'll miss you. Guys, are the best challengers, so we will miss you. Really, can I get a motion to adjourn? So moved. Can I get a second? Roll for the vote to adjourn. Hate [Speaker B (unidentified): us. Good. Yes.] Shane. Yes. Gabby. Yes. Mark. Yes. We have our last vote. Yes. And Katie. We are adjourned. Thank you all. Bye guys.