Bangor committee weighs airport policy hurdles, taxi regulations

[0:32] Joseph Leonard: That sounds insane. All right, you're you're live. Yeah, good evening everybody. Welcome to another regularly scheduled meeting of the business economic development committee. I am the chair of this committee, Counselor Leonard. Other committee members are Counselors Carson, Counselor Fish, Counselor Mallard, and we are short Counselor Faloon. So Counselor Dean, Could I ask you to be a voting member for this committee? Also around the table, we have Council Chair Haas, we have Airport Director Jose Saavedra, and we have Community Economic Developer Anne Crete with us. And first on the agenda is the Bangor International Airport. Jose, I'll just let you take it away. [1:23] Sam Savedra: Yeah, good evening. I'm Sam Savedra, airport director, and I brought to you an airport director report that covers a few pretty housekeeping items before moving into a little bit of the more robust feedback as a conversation. So I'll start with the statistics for the month of January and February. Attached to the packet that you received you will see that the numbers that we reported for the initial two months of this calendar year show a track that is similar to what we've seen in terms of trends. They're not record-breaking months, but pretty much on par with what we've seen historically in terms of growth. So, while they were not record-breaking months, probably still count our weather-related factors in August due to the fact that the airport was closed for about four days in January which took a hit on our number for the month of January. So relatively speaking, pretty solid numbers all around load factors for the remaining interior improving from what we had seen last year which is definitely a good sign and generally one of the things that we will observe as compared to in previous years is the airlines adjusting their flight schedules for summer operations to start the seasonal service earlier and so actually as of this report both routes from Charlotte and Chicago which are regularly season of service that start late at the end of May it actually started two weeks ago so we're seeing again that's a positive sign in some of the longer seasons of service. Any questions on those reports so far? Alright so the next thing that I have in my report is a temporary lease that you might have seen for the last couple of years, it's a temporary parcel of land that we lease to enterprise car rental. Basically, as they prep for their summer peak operation, they need additional space. We know that in terms of rental car operations, we are limited in the type of facilities that we have, and as part of the master plan we are looking at expanding facilities and development in that site. But in the meantime, what we've worked with them is a temporary arrangement in which we leave part of the overflow parking lot for them to stage vehicles there, clean them, and get them ready to bring them back again. This is a lease agreement that you've seen twice in the past. What we've done is we've compiled that into a three-year agreement and renewable on a yearly basis, and so that would kind of prevent us from having to come back and do this again on a yearly basis, since I suspect that it will be at least another three years before we find a long-term report for this facility. So questions on that? These, if approved as a staff recommendation, would go to council next. Do you want us to vote on that right now, or yeah? Okay, recommendation. Thank you. I'll move staff recommendations and moved and seconded. That will move on. Perfect. So we'll put together a... The last section of this airport director's report is a response to Templar, Parkland and other in the committee a number of meetings back, and that has to do, I think, that the question that was brought at that time had to do with challenges in implementing or challenges at the airport that can be tied directly to city council policy and what kind of repercussions decisions that have that happen here at the committee level and council level and their impacts on airport operations. And so it took me a little bit of brainstorming and putting together all of my ideas in a way that was digestible enough to have a conversation. So hopefully you've had the chance to review some of those and that I can answer any questions. So I know that this is a little bit of a pretty packed report that I put together. I'm not sure if the best way is for me to walk through different sections of that, or if there's anything that you would like me to address right after that. [6:48] Joseph Leonard: I mean, I'll address that to the committee. I'd prefer you just walk us through step-by-step just so that citizens are also aware of what's going on, but would any other counselor oppose that idea? Okay, well, why don't we just do that? And if any counselor has any questions, please just go ahead and just chime in. You don't need to wait for me. Okay, so [7:13] Sam Savedra: The way I've organized this report is in five different sections that focus on procurement related matters, contracts and agreements, grants, sponsor grant deferences, and federal requirements and regulations. And so I'll dive in into the first area, which is a procurement policy. And so one of the things that I observed in terms of policy that it's a kind of mundane, but it certainly has a number of implications is the way our procurement policy structure as it is right now. The policy that we have in place for the city of Bangor as a whole in 1994, It's been updated about seven or eight times throughout the last 30 years. But one of the shortcomings about the actual procurement policy in and of itself is that if from reading the policy, it seems like it was a policy written specifically and targeted to address FTA funded projects. And so what that does is that it sort of corners the procurement policy in a way that only speaks on FTA-related projects, but it's silent on many other areas that are of importance and interest to the city. And so I think that's one of those things that it's a, unless you deal with the procurement policy on a regular basis, you don't see this as a recurring pattern, right? Right? And that then falls into the next important item when it comes to the procurement policy and that's the limits themselves. And so when you look at the airport as a department of the city, the airport's operating budget and proposed for fiscal year 27 is close to 27 million dollars when the bidding threshold is set at 25 000 that means that there's the amount of projects and procurement efforts that the airport has to undertake at that level are just tremendous and that has a significant effect in the amount of bandwidth and resources that we have to put, from an airport administration standpoint, into just following that procurement process. And one of the things that I could see as a follow-up on that particular level of limits in the procurement policy is that over the last five years, three years, we've seen a significant amount of increase in terms of inflation, in terms of tariffs, and overall prices across the industry that have really diminished the purchasing power that $25,000 gets right and so as a result of that what ends up happening is the things that we used to go and get with the purchasing purchase order now have to go out to bid right and so the amount of those smaller purchases has just balloon and mushroom over the last few years and so that is something that ties directly back to culture. Questions so far? I think we're all good. Okay, so the next set of items that I piled up together has to do with contracts and agreements and I think that it is important for us to have a understanding of the role that the airport in particular has in the sense that the airport sometimes if you look at the right side of this table the airport has different roles depending on which relationships were talking about in some instances we act as the owner of the property if we are leasing a piece of land to a third-party vendor in some other instances, we act as the landlord. That's in a contractor relationship. In some other instances, we provide services to the airlines, right? And so that requires a certain level of commitments and responsibilities and associated operating requirements that we must follow, right? I think that one of the things that falls under contracts and agreements is that the nature of some of the agreements and operations that happen at the airport sometimes require a rather expeditious execution in order for us to be able to support the operation that we're providing and continue to provide the level of services that our clients, because that's really who they are. A lot of the aircraft that come into our general aviation site, there are clients we directly provide services that they expect, right? And to keep that in mind is that this is the level of service that we're providing at the airport is similar to that they would expect from a private sector entity, and so in reality we are sort of a little bit of a different operation in the sense that at other airports some of the activities that we are doing at the airport and services we're providing are privately brought, right? And which is a good thing for us because we're able to provide that level of service, right? But it also comes with certain support and abilities to be able to deliver at that level, right? Also in all the lines of contracts and agreements in terms of vendors. One of the challenges that the airport encounters on a regular basis, and I don't think it's limited to the airport, it is in conversations with the IT manager and with other departments across the city. I think this is something that a lot of us struggle across the city, and it has to do with vendors that are qualified to deliver the services that we need in our location. And what I mean by that is that sometimes we do have to find and procure resources outside the immediate civilian community here in Bangor and get vendors from other places. Sometimes we're lucky enough to get them from Boston or New York, right, but the airport, for example, has had to contract with servers from Texas or from Utah. And in those instances, it's just that the delivery and the facility to bring in the specialized labor here, it's that much more difficult. Right, and so again, in order to execute in some of those type of services, it's a matter of expediency and delivery of executed contracts and those type of things to move in those procuring certain types of vendor services and good support. The next bucket of items that I group have to do with funding and particularly with grants. I think that this is an interesting topic of conversation because the airport in and of itself follows a little bit of a different methodology when it comes to airport grants. The Federal Aviation Administration has two types of grants, more than two types, but it usually fall into one of two different categories. One that is competitive grants, and that's your traditional grant in which you put together an application, you submit it, wait the results to hear whether you're getting it or not getting it. The second type of grants are what are called entitlements, and entitlements are basically a given that you will receive those grants, but you still have to, the delivery mechanism for the city to get those funds are through a grant. Internally, from a city standpoint, it doesn't make a difference for us if it's an entitlement grant or if it's a competitive grant. You still have to come to committee and to council to request your approval to apply for entitlement funds once and accepted and then appropriate, right? Which sometimes those processes run concurrently, but at the end of the day, still three different steps that need to be followed, or in some instances we have to come back and ask for a retroactive authorization to apply for a grant that we already either apply or that we will get anyway for capital development, right? And I think that goes back to one of the other items that I have on your brand is that the process in and of itself, not in my tenure, but I know that in the past there has been instances in which the airport itself has been at risk of completing the process of securing certain grants because of the internal processing and so something added just to the complexity when it comes to airport grants. I think sections four and five go hand in hand pretty closely and I think that section four speaks specifically about airport grant assurances and I'll take a step back to build a little bit on what or grant assurances are. Anytime the airport and the city accepts federal grant federal funds, we agree to abide by a certain number of federal federally directed requirements. And there's a list of about 40 of them of grant assurances that range in topics from the use of the land that we that we have at the airport, the type of operation we're going to run, accessibility, civil rights, so a lot of different components that go into it and in addition to these 40 grant assurances there's also a number of executive orders that need to follow and a whole other set of requirements that are not sometimes either law or best practices or preferences from DOT or from the FAA, that we are not legally required to comply, but for accepting the funds, right? And so the accepting of funds from the federal government, that makes it a requirement for us to follow those directives, right? And every time we continue to accept grants, some of these assurances have an expiration time, usually 20 years. years every time we accept new federal funds it resets the clock so in essence it's never ending right and so because the airport has accepted funds up until very recently all of those grant assurances are in place and will continue to be in place right and i think that this is where it kind of murders into section five but before i move on to section five i think one of the most important topics is it generally speaking so if we go back to 1968 the city of bangor worked with the department of Defense to get a land transfer from the military who received a parcel of land for the purposes of number one, operating the Bangor International Airport, number two, developing economic activity that will support the operation of the airport, right? And that is vested within the original land transfer of the airplane, right? And so because it, when it comes to real estate property, that is a perpetuity type of agreement, meaning that anything that is in that original transfer in order to make any adjustments, whether it's disposition of land or changes in the use that the land is used for, before we make any of those type of changes from a city standpoint, yes, if the city does hold title to the land, but it doesn't have, it does so with the approval and restrictions of the FAA. And I think that 's a very important thing to remember, right, that even though as a city, we accepted a parcel of land from the federal government we all of the grant assurances going place right that we're going to abide by the land use of that particular property and when we applied in 1968 it said it will be for the use and support of the operation of there i think that moves on to number five which goes into federal regulatory requirements and think that is a little bit broader in terms of what do we mean by when we operate an international airport, right? So the airport in and of itself, right, when we applied for the lab transfer in 1968, we said we want to operate an international airport. By virtue of operating an international airport and deciding that we want to have the ability to accept international flights and as stuff, we all, there's obviously a certain level of requirements that go into it because the nature of an airport requires us to have the presence of different federal agencies, Department of Homeland Security through TSA, Customs and Border Protection, FAA divisions from air traffic control from technical operation. And so I think that 's an important thing that technically, if you look at the actual specific letter of the law, we're not required to provide facilities for immigration purposes or for federal operations,, right? But we did sign up for the operation of an airport, right? And so by definition, when we say that we will abide by the rules of operating an airport, that entails a number of federal operations, providing them facilities, providing them equipment, and a number of different things that when you look at it from a big 30,000 picture legally,, it's not a requirement, right? But it is in the sense that the airport is part of the city. So I think that the conversation that came up recently is kind of a prime example in which blanket statements that speak for the city as a whole have some very weird intricacies that need to be accounted for in order for us not to end up in a situation that inadvertently gets the city and the airport in a situation that then puts it in conflict with bigger and overarching commitments that have been made over the last 20, 30 years, or by virtue of deciding that the city would undertake the responsibilities of an international airport. [23:34] Joseph Leonard: So I know other counselors have some questions regarding this and thank you so much for your report Jose I thought was very important I hope people at home also found it informative because of recent events and because of these ongoing conversations that we've had in particular that the legal portion has really for me been a pretty large indicator that this idea that we've been discussing over the last few BED meetings about the idea of opening up an investigation to have a commission for the airport, that is just one other docket, I think, that kind of supports us at minimum trying to determine if that's something feasible that we want to go forward into. That's just me, though, and I know I'm just one member, But I just want to make that for the record very clear that was a big hot button issue that I think we should take that into consideration. I don't know if you have anything you want to say in response to that before we open up to other councillors. No. [24:39] Sam Savedra: Councillor Carson? Yeah. Thank you, Councillor Leonard. Thank you so much for this report. report, I know that it is extremely difficult to sit down and to put together a report about challenges created by a policy environment to the very people who create the policy environment that have caused your challenges. So I want to appreciate that a thousand and warn you that I'm not done. I will eventually ask you to do the exercise of designing your perfect airport commission, if you were to be asked to do that. And to be clear to the point that you just made, I am supportive of opening a discussion about that type of a structural change, and I see a benefit in that, because of the ability of, for us to preserve what is great, which is the publicly on nature of the institution, while also creating an environment that addresses the business, a lot of business acumen questions that kind of come up. But that is a big structural conversation, and that takes a long time. So the purpose of me asking this question is that I don't think it takes us as the policy makers, I don't think we have to wait for a structural conversation to start addressing the challenges that you're having there. And so I appreciate it in this format, because it gives Counselor Carson a huge list of things to start brainstorming what's right orders for. So I really appreciate that, and I'm not going to take up any more of your time with making you answer silly questions. We'll go, yes, that's not so hot, I don't know [26:18] Daniel Carson: if it's silly or not, but I do have a question. Sure, I know that there's a lot of interest around VNA, what it has been in the past, what it is now, and what it's going to be. And I was hoping that maybe we could have a workshop at some point, because there's new counselors that maybe have never been to a Van Air board meeting, or, and it would be nice if we had a better handle on what's going on, what's, what's the rental, what's the income, who's responsible for what, is it costing us to have been here as opposed to what do we get for revenues. So if we could do something like that, I think a workshop would be a really good idea. I could just interject, at your next ED meeting, I do have as an agenda item a Banner update, and so just to [27:11] Sam Savedra: add for general context right the airport is a part to the member but you're a voting I'm a voting member, right, but the director or overseeing figure is Chiquita. Yeah,. Even though Banner has authority over leasing and negotiating a number of different properties that are in their reporting, the actual oversight is with the business and economic development side. I think that 's so I would work with her if she is interested in some sort of assistance. [27:54] Daniel Carson: So maybe at the next meeting, we could start that conversation through the update with Banner. I think just the structure has changed over the years, and directors have changed, obviously, and it just seemed to be a good time when we're talking about budgeting and what's available for properties and whether we have a group being developed or not. It might be a good time to have a workshop if the agenda is not four pages long. Maybe we could have a longer discussion if needed. It doesn't have to be an actual scheduled workshop, but if we had a bigger block [28:34] Sam Savedra: of time to talk about it, I could add a little bit more about Banner's political context in case that some of the other counselors are not as familiar with what that means, that bad air. You're right, it morphed into something differently than what it was initially meant to be. So, and I'm gonna miss some of the dates, more or less, but in around the 1980s or so, I believe there was the city created this corporation that is called that, and so Banner Air, the purpose of it was to expedite and enable them to develop and create economic activity and help the airport develop some of the some of the land and property that is owned by the airport, right? And I think it was housed under the business and economic development unit. One of the challenges with many things is that in order for something to be successful, it needs to have the right resources allocated for it to function in a way that is intended to, right? Otherwise it morphs into something different. And so I, as the airport director there, I had a seat in the board of Ban Air, but one of the challenges that Ban Air as a as an agency, as a corporation itself, is has had and since the beginning, since my arrival to the airport, is even meeting quorum to be able to function as an organization or as a body, right? And so what happens with those type of challenges is that then if the organization in and of itself fails to meet quorum, then it's rendered useless in serving the businesses or the processes that it's meant to address. And so as such, then some of them then default back to traditional business and economic development approvals and motions. And so I think that 's where the morph of what it was meant to be versus what it actually turns out to be, right? And so it's some of those challenges, what are the resources that are allocated to expect what kind of results, right? So a little bit more than what you asked for in that area, but that's fine. Yeah. [31:05] Carolyn Fish: Councillor Fish. This is very helpful. And I think, at least for me, I think this is crucial for us to act on and keep the momentum, you know, identify some things that maybe we could address right away. If we want to put together a commission that may take time, and I would hate to think a commission would end up just being the same thing going to council. You know, you go to them and then they have to come back to us. So I would like for us to work on that, see what your thoughts are, but definitely identify some of the key things now that are preventing you from getting a bid in on a piece of expensive equipment that we could have gotten but we lost it because we had to wait or anything you know along those lines if maybe we as council if you had suggestion you're the expert but if you we could give authority to the city manager, you know, or finance director, that we would entrust them to make the decision and not have to go through this. But I think we should really make this a priority. That's our biggest enterprise for the city. And this was a real eye opener. And so thank you for this. And let's really be aggressive on identifying the key things and what we can do to empower you with the power of the airport does [32:32] Joseph Leonard: anyone have any other questions regarding this item? So I do want to talk about like what are next steps. It's what we see right now. Obviously we're going to have the banner conversation next bed meeting, and I'm sure we still want to marinate them all over the information day for us, and maybe we even want to reach out to some constituents that we have regarding this, because it is a, anytime you have a new change in government and how it's structured, that can always be scary for people. I do think that this is a necessary conversation to have at minimum, and I do want to see us have this conversation more and more. And so whatever, I can do, whatever, I think, I think I speak for all of us on this committee at this point that like we're all supportive of having this go forward and having a investigation of a commission take place and whether or not see what its merits or downsides are. But what does day zero right now to those next few meetings sort of look like in your head? And maybe you can't answer that right now, but I would like to figure out where we are going in the future so that we can sort of prepare future bed meetings so that we can have very substantive conversations and also direct staff for what we see to be in agreement on what that path forward should be. Does that make sense? Oh, I'm seeing a team manager coming to the table. [34:13] Susan Hawes: Yeah, I just want to be sensitive, particularly, and this is why I'm stepping in, because I want to make Jose say this on his own. Jose is managing currently a huge number of very large scale important projects for the city to improve the airport. I think we can have two Jose's and we would still be too busy. So I think to truly, and you can correct me if you disagree, I think to truly investigate this question, we are probably looking at procuring the services an outside consultant to help us navigate that process, because if Jose was going to do that work in-house, that would become his new full-time job, and we do not want this to become Jose's new full-time job. I'm very happy to hear you say, counselor Carson, that in reading the information that Jose presented, there's a lot we can do now, and when I read what Jose put together, the immediate thought I had was, maybe this issue is more acute for Jose, but this is some of these challenges, many of these challenges exist for all of our departments, because of the way our procurement policies work, our contracting processes work, all of our departments would like to be more nimble and responsive to the marketplace in many circumstances. So I think we can perhaps solve an issue for Jose that actually benefits us citywide by sort of going down that list and starting to tackle those challenges one by one. In the meantime, while we, if we want to have the conversation about a commission, think through the steps to do that in a way that doesn't displace all of Jose's existing important work. [36:03] Joseph Leonard: That's a very valid point. So if we did want to move forward with this conversation, but I'll be the first one to say very clearly, I don't wanna give Jose a second job. out. So if we do want to go forward that conversation, it seems like we are going to need to have outside counsel to assist us in regards that, and we don't need to necessarily have that conversation now unless this committee does want to, but that seems like the only path to go forward. Yes, Councilor Carter. [36:31] Sam Savedra: I would endorse the idea of outside counsel. I mean, we're not the experts on designing that sort of that structure affecting that structural change. And we really have a And I think the public nature of our air. I mean, there's a lot there that we're able to do because it's publicly owned and we want to be able to preserve what is the best about that without, you know, will also address so it's it's yeah I would endorse that. I also just want to, I'm going to volunteer to dive into this report, and really because there are things that jump out right away that would be easy to direct, you know, But we could, we could begin thinking of an orientation program for counselors. [37:12] Joseph Leonard: I do want to echo your words manager earlier that I think you made a very good point that a lot of the issues that Jose pointed out to affect our other departments and so if there's a way to rectify some of those issues without hiring outside counsel, that would be I think we would all be in agreement of like trying to adopt any of those things to other departments. If you do need to have obviously conversations with us regarding any changes that are in public session or even executive session. I think that's also going to be appropriate because any way that we can improve our department's efficiency is going to be useful no matter what. So thank you for that observation. Yes, Council Carson, [37:58] Sam Savedra: I would just to that point, and I want to thank you, because I have these same questions for all of our department heads, I really do want to hear, and I think it's culturally appropriate to have that I want, you know, our department heads to feel comfortable coming to us and expressing those challenges. Somebody has to start. And so I want to thank you for doing because that's a baptism by fire to, you know, to come in and be the first. so I want to thank you for that but I encourage anybody else to do it too. What I would add also just to what Senator Lear mentioned is that I think if the committee and the council decides to go in that general direction, right, I think there's two things that were already acknowledged. It's the easy things that can be done out of this list right now. There's a number of them that will greatly benefit the airport. They would greatly benefit other city departments across the city. That's a thin conversation that city manager and myself had. I would fine tune this report is that many of these things are citywide. And so if the directive is to address some of these things that are internally and can have an impact I think that it would benefit not the airport but everybody and I think that 's that's a relatively easier and left to do right because it's within our control there's all the more structural type of conversations that can be had I think that's probably where you councillor Leonard and councillor Carson are describing I think that in order for any in order to have a successful discussion on any of those topics, we just want to be number one realistic of what the objectives are, and then as with earlier in there, having the right resources to support achieving those objectives, right? If the objective is to have that type of conversation or analysis or some sort of larger discussion, right, then it will require, like the City Manager already mentioned, a little bit more bandwidth for me to be able to help put together something that is digestible and reusable and that shows the options that you would like to see or that or the objectives and so I think that 's the objectives to have the resources to back that up. Any [40:42] Joseph Leonard: other final thoughts or questions on this item? Oh being your head being you over the head with this topic I really appreciate you putting the effort into this and if anyone does have any questions regarding the information that Jose has presented please feel free to reach out to him for any of those questions or obviously cc be a city manager as well so that she can also reach out as well any final thoughts before you leave us no i hope that [41:21] Sam Savedra: this was helpful. It was certainly an interesting exercise for me to gather a lot of the information, a lot of thoughts, having been in my role for a little bit under three years. It certainly has given me the ability to look at things from a vantage point that looks at how curves produce an event, and I think that it's important for us to consider a lot of the background and context of how did we get to the current setup, and I certainly had the opportunity to benchmark that versus what the current needs really are. And so I think that as we continue this conversation and you look into further policy matters, I think the key thing that from an airport, from my place as the airport director is to have a clear expectation and a clear understanding of what is the objective, right? Where do you as the governing body see the airport going and where do you want it to go as a community asset, as an economic engine, as the gateway to our community, right? And that based off of your desire of where the airport wants, where do you want the airport port to go then changes in policy followed that directive right if any if you deem any necessary so that would be my closing thoughts on that thank you so much jose okay [43:16] Joseph Leonard: So next on the agenda item two is going to be the subordination agreement eight harlow [43:24] Daniel Carson: Street anyone pick that away for your counselors i tried to give a history of how we got here with eight harlow street a few years ago in order to avoid the city to take possession of the property a property owner had worked with a tri-party type situation where you have the seller and then a buyer and then the city involved to try to get the property sold so that the city wouldn't because there were twenty thousand dollars in liens and so the city would not have to take possession so but if You've found the building you know that the building needs a lot of work it's somewhat dilapidated and so we wanted to be sure that some of the code issues were addressed so we created a development agreement to ensure that you know the building would be brought up to code some things have been done by the owner but the owner the current owner has been looking for a buyer for the last couple of years there's been some interests that have fallen through and now we have a buyer pike development Who you recall has done a lot of work already on state street as well as to hammond so you know they've had a good track record with us and in working with the city so just like in other situations the reverter clause that's in the development agreement has caused the bank that's doing a 2.2 million dollar loan and it's a pipe development to you know to purchase the property and fix it up that reverter clause has caused some concern so the legal department because i've done this in other Situations created a draft subordination agreement that i brought here your seeding or your review. Normally, if this was a city property, we you know, this would be a topic of executive session, but the city has never taken possession of the property. So this is an unusual situation. And so it's a regular agenda item. [45:58] Joseph Leonard: Before you open it up to the rest of the committee, I just have a question like, has there been any specific evidence? Or pike project development and whether or not they have the capacity and track record to complete [46:13] Daniel Carson: this renovation it's the same development company that's done to hammond as well as exchange you know the corner of exchange and state so we've had you know we've they've been part of our facade treatment program with CDBG I've done the work and we're able to take advantage of historic tax credits you know it's a sophisticated company that we've been working with [46:45] Joseph Leonard: okay I'll open up the committee for if anyone has any questions on this item [46:52] Carolyn Fish: yes I think we brought this subject up a year or two ago and we imposed some requirements of them to comply with code and do some things that some have and some have not and they think at the time they had a buyer but because of the restrictions we put I believe that deals that time the buyer left right that's happened a couple times that's happened a couple times so I think with this is I think a good move on our part to allow the situation to move on to new buyers. So I read that I didn't have any questions and concerns. And I think, you know, I think the restrictions we put on some work some didn't, this might be a better avenue. So I understand what this is for. And launderers don't like those kinds of attachments on a property. So I think we have to do something like this in order for that to move on. So those are [47:51] Speaker F (unidentified): my comments. Thank you. [47:53] Joseph Leonard: I guess the only other question I would have is, so if the subordination agreement is approved and the project later fails, what is the practical likelihood that the solicitor's claim would, let's say, fully exhaust the property's value, and then the reverter clause would be left with in that scenario with nothing? [48:14] David Szewczyk: interesting hi dave subject today solicitor so the subordination agreement would allow the lender in this case approached the city saying can you eliminate the reverter clause and our response was we don't need to we can do a subordination agreement that would allow the reverter clause to stay in place and also allow the buyer to obtain the financing and the [Joseph Leonard: the] significance of it so that I don't have to go into the issue of the value of the reverter clause and I don't really think that it's a good place here to talk about that, but I can talk about that with you in person in a conversation. But the idea of the subordination agreement is just to allow the financing to go forward and the Reverter Clause stays in place. I don't know if that answered your question. [49:32] Joseph Leonard: No, we can talk after the meeting. You're too long on it, but I guess I don't really have any other following questions unless anyone else does and if there's a motion that wants to be [49:47] Sam Savedra: made they can make it with staff recommendation for coordination agreement second do a motion in [49:55] Joseph Leonard: a second unless doubted that will move on thank you okay so number three where are we I think [50:07] Daniel Carson: it's like taxi cabs yeah okay this was a request that came into staff that you know it's a policy change so we didn't we didn't feel comfortable moving forward with it until we brought it to your attention to see if you wanted us to prepare changes but the ordinance has been requested to change regarding the removal of the requirement for taxometers and the removal of the requirement for the light to be attached to the top of the taxi cabs and a removal or increase of the cap on taxi cab fare rates [50:56] Carolyn Fish: yes council fish does this put them more in line with other projects like uber yeah I mean that's really what's caused [51:06] Daniel Carson: them to come to us they just want to have a level playing field with those other businesses any [51:16] Joseph Leonard: other thoughts or questions on this agenda item [51:20] Sam Savedra: yes council carson well the taxi meters I mean staff puts in here that it would be unclear if we made this change who would be in charge of regulating the app based system, that there's staff concerned that regulation would be passed on to the city advice here. Think a little bit more. [51:41] Daniel Carson: Yeah, again, we didn't pursue a lot of investigation into this because we just wanted to sort of gauge the interest of the committee before we spent a lot of staff time on it. But that would be that would be our first question is how does that work with all the state requirements and the measurements yeah what other municipalities have adopted this in Maine I don't know that's something else that we would look into yeah [52:12] Joseph Leonard: Because I would definitely be more privy to making a decision on this if I know what other communities are doing, because this is an issue all across the country. So I think seeing how other municipalities have done it, that will probably help guide us to certainly what not to do, but hopefully toward a decision that is most amicable for all parties. So I don't really have anything else to add besides that. Does anyone else have anything else to add? Is this something that you need guidance on or? [52:50] Daniel Carson: No, I think I got good guidance. I think what we'll do is we'll take it sort of up a notch, if you will, to just look at what other communities are doing, looking a little bit more at what the state requirements are just to kind of see what can you change, what can't you change, and then we'll bring that back a future date like oh yes [53:11] Sam Savedra: Council cars, there's other things I noticed that I mean this is specific to taxi cabs and that regulation and that's probably what's mentioned in there anyways, probably predates ride share. But I would think that if we're going to engage in a discussion about updating regulations to create a better environment, we should probably think about the whole ride share. I mean, the goal here is to even the playing field, we probably also should think about regulating ride share, because we probably don't do that at all. That's correct [53:49] Joseph Leonard: With that said, why don't we move on to some planning updates, Jane's Walk housing data update, and a request permission to pursue funds from the state [54:00] Daniel Carson: Heading officer on Eucalyptus updates, thank you. So the first item is on the Jane's Walks updates [54:13] Speaker F (unidentified): Several of you have heard us give the spiel before, but on the first Saturday of every May, it's a tradition across not only this country, but other countries to do a Jane's Walk, which is to celebrate the life of activist Jane Jacobs, who was primarily active in the 1960s. A lot of her work was geared towards promoting more communities and land uses that were much more pedestrian-oriented, community-oriented, and not so car-centric and based on the separation of land uses that was really prevalent at that time. And she really tried to promote community engagement and involvement. So these walks are, you know, to get people out connecting with their community, learning about their neighborhoods and their cities. So this year we have actually two walks that staff will be involved in. So the first one, and the date is May 2nd, but the first one is at 10 a.m. and we'll be the staff person for that, and that will be starting here City Hall, and we'll be focusing on urban renewal and the effect that had on downtown. And then I will be the staff person at 1 p.m. walk, and that will start with for at the Broad Street Park and travel along the waterfront and talk about pre-colonial history, Revolutionary War, industry, and then our history, Bangor's history in the maritime industry, and our HPC chair will actually be guiding that walk. So that would be really interesting. And there's also another walk at 1130 being played by the Penobscot Theatre Council that we weren't aware of. But that should also be interesting. I think it's centered around ghosts and kind of the history of the Penobscot Theatre. And if you want to look at all of the walks in the state, I put the URL for that. So we're, we're doing a Facebook post on this, but also Downtown Payment Partnerships, a lot of outreach as well. So any questions? I'm not seeing any. The next thing is just to give you a brief update on the most recent quarter's housing unit numbers. We had 16 building permits, they should have helping units, and six certificates of occupancy. You don't know what your occupancy is, that's what comes after building permit when the housing is ready to be occupied. This, these numbers were a little lower than what we saw in the first quarter, but that's pretty typical with wintertime. We don't introduction activity, and most of these new building permits were Tiny Home Park that was just approved recently on Pushaw Road, and then the 60 stock you see were just for a duplex. The only [57:17] Joseph Leonard: question I had on that is for the Pushaw Road, the sewage system, is that mixed or is that just like storm water and sewer, or is, or is it they're actually [57:34] Speaker F (unidentified): using public sewer for that, but they are treating their storm water on site. So okay, yeah. [57:40] Joseph Leonard: Okay, I was just curious, that's all. Okay, any other questions? None. Okay, so state funds. Yes, so [57:53] Speaker F (unidentified): The state has released two funding opportunities. The first one is for municipalities to apply for reimbursement for our costs related to reporting housing unit numbers for LD 1184. We have to start reporting the number of building permits, COS, demo permits, and I think also provide some detailed info like what kinds of housing units were created. So code enforcement will primarily be involved without reporting since they issue those permits, but we can, we can request reimbursement for costs that we incurred between September of last year and then May 15th of this year. So all we have to do is submit an invoice for that. So it's just a request. [58:39] Joseph Leonard: When's the deadline for requesting a reimbursement? [58:46] Speaker F (unidentified): I don't think they gave a deadline, but I'll double check that. My intent was provided council approves the council order on this just immediately, yeah, so yeah, it was just a dumb thought bubble came to my head. I assume since you know the reporting period it goes up [59:04] Joseph Leonard: until May 15th they're probably going to give people some time after, likely, yeah. Any other questions on this item? There was one, oh I'm so sorry, no it's okay, I was just splitting into [59:17] Speaker F (unidentified): two pieces. The second piece was they just released a grant opportunity for costs for implementing LD 1829 and those other housing laws. That's going to be a lot more extensive in terms of staff time because we still have to do the round two important changes. So we can get reimbursement for cost incurred after April 1st of this year up until July 31st 2027. We do have to send, if we want that grant we do have to send the state our draft ordinance changes for them to review. They have to have 30 days to review that. We have to give them that before we adopt the ordinance, so that's one caveat. We can however, we can get an award up to ten thousand dollars, and any leftover funds in that we don't use for the ordinance development we can use for certain housing related items like housing related coordinates revisions or community planning, but we do have to ask the state if that's okay, you know, tell them what we're planning to do. [Daniel Carson: So good people] around, okay, do you need an action or a vote forward [1:00:36] Joseph Leonard: recommendation because you see a lot right, yeah, so okay, so I have a motion, so moved, second, okay, that will move on, thank you so much, sorry for cutting you off, okay, so community grant [1:00:53] Daniel Carson: block grant update check in, yeah, community development officer Robyn Stanicki's here for [1:01:15] Speaker F (unidentified): This but I can just, yeah, we're gonna do a quick check-in. I'm just gonna tell you that. My name is Robin Stanicki. I'm the Community Development Officer and our Consolidated Plan that I've reviewed with you over the last year is out for public comment. The comment period will run until the end of May and then it will, I believe on the 20th of May, I'll be coming back to this committee to talk a little bit about the comments that we've received, how public engagement went and kind of an overview of the different programs that we'd like to fund and then that would go to council for the full approval questions for Robin [1:02:07] Carolyn Fish: Yes counselor Fish have you had much response from the public yet not yet because it just [1:02:13] Speaker F (unidentified): opened on Monday so I was kind of hoping that we'd have a rush of like people very excited but it tends to be a little slow and I sometimes get like one or two comments dribbled out but I'm hoping for more maybe three this year so if you're watching [1:02:30] Joseph Leonard: take a look I was gonna say is there any way that we can in our capacity as counselors like get the word out for that because I was there for the downtown Bangor partnership community outreach and that was fairly well attended I thought and I think this is an even more important thing for people to get involved with so is there something that we can do to help you guys out so that we can get involved [1:02:59] Speaker F (unidentified): Absolutely I think one thing that you could potentially do is if you see our social media posts regarding the plan to kind of share them in your circles If folks are asking about it, we will have a workshop to kind of go over the plan and also let folks know that the funding opportunity announcement is open now. So if you have organizations and businesses that are interested in seeking funding right now is the time to do it application we've got open until May any [1:03:44] Joseph Leonard: other thoughts or questions [1:03:46] David Szewczyk: from council or staff I [1:03:53] Joseph Leonard: guess that's it thank you so much hey I think that is it for things on the agenda for public unless you have anything else you want to go over in okay [1:04:11] Sam Savedra: Council Carson move pursuant to one MRSA section 4056 C acquisition of real [1:04:18] Joseph Leonard: property second seconded all right we will do a roll call vote counselor Carson yes answer fish yes I'm Sam Alec yes counselor Dean yes I will also be a yes we are in executive session okay you're good all right so we are back from executive [1:28:17] Carolyn Fish: Session everybody, thank you for your patience. I move that we accept staff recommendation to accept the offer on chairman app by Habitat for Humanity. Move and seconded. [1:28:30] Joseph Leonard: And unless doubted, which better not be, it will have passage. Thanks so much. All right, thank you, and that concludes our meeting for the Business Economic Development Committee.