Bangor equity committee reviews naming policy after Mansfield Stadium field named for Ron St. Pierre

[0:01] Katie Brydon: All right, thank you so much, David. Hello everyone, and welcome to our August meeting for the Advisory Committee on Racial Equity, Inclusion, and Human Rights. We do not, obviously, have any participation on Zoom, but I'm still going to have us go around and introduce ourselves. We have some new folks at the table since Courtney is out today, so I will start. I am Katie Bryden, chair of the committee. Perfect timing, right? We're just starting, Mark. I'll send it to you, please. [0:41] Michael Beck: Hey, I'm Michael Beck, council liaison. Who's that? Furrow member. Thank you. Raymond Clark. [0:49] David Szewczyk: Member Tracy Roulette, director of parks recreation. I'm David Warren, I'm the communications manager [0:56] Adam Douglas Baker: for the city, working in the city management. Adam Baker, committee member. Shane Boyd, the vice chair. [1:03] Katie Brydon: All right, thank you everyone for being here this evening. After our roll call, I wanted to bring attention to the fact that we've got a couple of vacancies opening on our committee. We do have Raylan, your term is ending in December, as is Adam's and Katie's, Katie Robinson, and we also have Sharon's position still vacant, and also our student liaison. So a couple of things, the application is available now online. I encourage you, if you are interested in continuing with your participation here, to fill one out, share the openings. Adam, dependent on how November goes, we would have either love you to have you back or service you another capacity. Katie, unfortunately, is moving to Southern Maine starting in October, so she will actually not even finishing her run. So congratulations to her, but she will be sorely missed as well. Her baby Amy, who always makes cute new appearances. So I encourage you to open that up. And then also, if there are any students, we always have a student liaison. I actually ran into Emmy, our outgoing student liaison, at Bagel Center last week. She left on last Wednesday to go to Vanderbilt, which is really exciting. And she has some big shoes to fill, but we're excited to see what other students we might have available to fill that role. Any questions on applications, openings, availabilities? [2:50] Suzette Holly Furrow: All right. Oh, well, I was just gonna say I've already put my application in to renew, so depending how it goes, so I'll be here. A lot of careful paperwork. [3:01] Katie Brydon: Thank you very much, Adam, that's good to hear. And all right, the next item on business is our public comment. We will move on to committee business. Tracy, I'm glad you're here this evening to speak with us about the baseball field at Mansfield. May I [3:28] Adam Douglas Baker: Turn it over to you to explain, certainly, if that's, yeah, please. So, thank you for [3:34] Carollynn Lear: having me here tonight. We've had a busy summer, and certainly the activity of Mansfield Stadium, which is no exception. Quick thumbnail on Mansfield Stadium, and I'm guessing most of you around the table are familiar with its existence, the parks and recreation facility. Mansfield came to us by way of a gift from Stephen Tapley King back in 1992, and has been a city amenity ever since. For a number of years, the city, specifically parks and Recreation, had a management agreement with Westside Little League to manage the facility. That agreement turned out in 2022. Little League has changed. It's no longer Westside and Eastside Little League. It's now Bangor Little League. But Mansfield Stadium continues to be, we feel, one of the best baseball experiences in the state of Maine, and certainly regionally and nationally and worldwide. Two names that are synonymous with the operation of Mansfield Stadium from its very beginning, and even prior to that, anecdolian conversations between then the league coach, youth baseball coach David Mansfield, and one parent by the name of Stephen King, led us to the reality of the stadium here today. Two gentlemen that are synonymous with that, David Mansfield and Ron Saint Pierre. Ron was the field guy. Ron had a tremendous impact here, thought of Banger High School for a number of years, coached a variety of activities, and certainly as synonymous with Mansfield Stadium. We did a re-recognition of the naming of Mansfield for David's son, Sean, who sadly passed early in his life. Certainly, his name is on the stadium still today, about doing something for Ron to honor him. At the time, Ron's health had started to decline, and that became progressively more serious. In the coming weeks, we held a ceremony at the end, near the end of the Northeast Regional Senior League tournament. Fortunately, all of Ron's sons was here, and we were able to do that for him. He was actually able to view it via Facebook from his hospital room. Subsequent, Consequent to that, in consultation with council chair, council unanimously approved an order permanently putting Ron St. Pierre's name to the baseball field playing surface at Mansfield Stadium. Although the timing and sadly, Ron passed a day or so after that council. So certainly being able to finish that process and able to have him and his family see that. And what was, if you haven't seen the video from the event, the regional tournament, the number of individuals that have either worked at Mansfield Stadium or played for Ron at some point. We had quite a group behind the entire ceremony and be able to see that spoke volume to the impact that Ron has had here in Bangor. Either a bank high school through his coaching or contacts at Mansfield State throughout the years. And although certainly the work that Ron has done both in the community at Mansfield Stadium, the stadium specifically attach a value the number of hours that Ron volunteered in the past 30 plus years that would be pretty significant so certainly worthy of the designation which leads to the next discussion that will invite the committee to have as far as the current city-owned naming policy certainly there were pieces of it that aligned with the process that we went through to name the field For Ron, but it's my understanding as assistant city manager that this committee has already started to have some conversation about that policy. So certainly it was an opportunity for this group to have that discussion and the process that allowed us to name the field for Ron you'll see reflected in some of assistant city managers recommendations to you from staff. So appreciate the discussion, appreciate the opportunity to review with you the process. Certainly for all of us Ron's to be missed and being able to permanently let folks know what he did, the impact he had here in the community and for him. When we first had a discussion with him he was not about it at all and the statement came was this would be an opportunity for us to tell visitors in the future who you were and how much having the best experience for youth in the state regionally and throughout the country and the world sometimes how important that was for you. That's that seemed to balance. So Ron J St Pierre's name will be firmly part of the complex at Manchester Stadium. You have in front of you some suggestions from staff on how to edit the policy that currently exists and I will give the table back to you folks to have a discussion. Certainly answer any questions you might have whether naming specifically or in general. Thank you very much. [9:39] Katie Brydon: I really appreciate that. Sorry for the loss of the one, but I am very grateful that this was able to be recognized and then his value was able to be celebrated while he was still here with his family. That's really special. Does anyone have any questions before we start the conversation so Tracy specifically about the process what happened in August the naming of man or of St. Gerefield we'll be like St. Gerefield at Mansfield it'll be Ronald J St Gerefield at Mansfield Stadium. Okay that was my question. Yeah, thank you. All right so the reason we wanted this obviously to be on our conversation tonight is because we as I think most of us were here for the past couple of years to be able to understand that the naming policy of things that happen in the city and are renamed come through our committee and then to council. We looked at the ordinance i believe it was last year updated it went through that process of really being thoughtful about what that naming process could look like and in talking with both So, Shane and Courtney, a couple of weeks ago, we realized that there was no mechanism if there was a time limit on when the naming procedure were to happen. It would typically go to a committee vote and then go on to council for their final vote. Obviously, I thought, I think we would all agree, it was very imperative that we sort of skip some steps in order to expedite that process. And it's i'm grateful for the opportunity just to bring it to the table share you know how this happened why it happened and see the value of that but also to look again at our naming process and really review this policy like i said that we updated i believe it was at the end of last year maybe the year before. Oh look right here yes it was the end of last year. Good job december 9 2025 to see if there were any i guess questions thoughts may be concerned about adding in language that specifically under item 4.4 under the policy that when extenuating circumstances exist as determined by the council chair this step may be skipped with ability for retroactive review by acre that is obviously what we're doing now. This has not been approved to my knowledge per this the updates that are recommended in here in red have not been improved and this is an updated policy so this would have to go through i believe i don't know if it goes through another council vote if we were to approve these changes but before we get to that point are there questions are there thoughts again i appreciate courtney putting this together in writing and red so that it really outlines where we might better identify ways that we can just work more collaboratively with the city especially given our limited meeting schedule anybody have any thoughts oh yes adam some [13:21] Suzette Holly Furrow: thoughts i think this is a really nice thing that you've done for mansfield i've lived in Bangor in my life and I grew up in like Bangor sports and I know how important like the baseball scene and just like the general scene in Bangor is so and I think also giving the process the little leniency of the process of hey some circumstances like this like we need to do it kind of quickly or just give recognition for something like that I think lessening the barriers sometimes with also giving us the power to also like review it as well still and still having that power but getting lessening the barrier a little bit so i like these changes [14:04] Katie Brydon: thank you i agree i guess in like the lens of access accessibility equity taking away any barriers that would prevent people from doing important work would sort of be counterproductive to our entire mission so we do see value there and especially because it does include a clause that we i guess i want to make sure that this would never be in a situation where it sort of got away from us where like this is almost performative right like sure we say we go through your committee but it was extenuating circumstances and then years from now we never see another new policy again the fact that it's included that there are retroactive steps that you know we're looking at again things that we didn't even think of properties living or deceased you know opportunities to really identify ways that we could just be more available to these city needs i think that i don't have any recommendations for the changes to what courtney proposed are there any other questions while we have this on the table yes [15:16] Teresa Fallon: Jane, the only thing that jumped out at me in here is under number five point two, adding the word potential in there. That I guess I was just curious, like under what circumstances would it not be then? If by saying potential it means right there are potential changes, but it could never come before our committee, so I would be in favor of removing potential from there, because I think regardless of reason it would be nice for us to have the chance to review it. That's a good catch, I think. Sure. Yes, I'm sorry. [15:57] Michael Beck: Just, I mean, I think that was put in there to say there's a possibility that committee might actually not even refer to getting rejected, so they're saying it's potential that could send it your way, but if it fails the vote at gov ops or whatever committee was in you, it would never come your way, so it's a potential to come your way if approved by that committee that's referring to you. [16:19] Teresa Fallon: not to be like this but maybe we should say that right for potential referral upon passage or whatever by committee just to be clear that 's the expectation that if the committee moves forward then it should come to us [16:36] Katie Brydon: I agree that having very clear language as to when it potentially would not be referred to this committee is valuable, so any request will be presented to the appropriate city council committee for potential work. I'm so sorry. [16:57] Mark Roth: You can have a question. Yes, Mark, up to you. Michael, is potential referral only related to a committee like gov ops tailing it or rejecting it? Is that more potential there? Oh, is that the only circumstance? I'll be honest, I don't know what harm's done for sure. [17:21] Michael Beck: That just was just my personal read on it, you know, again if anyone makes a referral, if we're sending it from the council site, if it doesn't survive the vote, then but you know to that point as you know clarity, you know necessary, you know certainly whatever this [17:39] Teresa Fallon: community recommends, so maybe it could read any requests will be presented to the appropriate City Council committee for consideration and pending approval or I don't know if that's the right word, be referred, so we just take out potential but upon approval by that committee, technically maybe they wouldn't even approve it, maybe they could at that point refer it before they take action on it, right, because it doesn't necessarily have to be approved to move forward, gov ops could say we want acres input first and refer it to us before they vote on it. [18:21] Michael Beck: And just for the word, I mean, it doesn't have to be go back, right, I still [18:37] Katie Brydon: Don't even understand why potential would be in there. It's my understanding that this isn't something that has to be passed tonight, night, right? Because it's something that we could also circle back with Courtney on before our hour. [18:56] Carollynn Lear: September meeting would be like knowing how this typically works. Yeah, for sure, kick it around tonight. I think to counselors counter Beck's possible explanation, I'm trying to remember after the discussion we had whatever committee certainly could, if they had some questions, concerns, wanted feedback from this committee, could indeed refer it here, whether there's potential possible in addition to a additional review. I don't know, kind of humbling that I could try to explain it to you, but I think that. Might be part of the logic behind it, but certainly to your point, if it's something to come back with the new September meeting, that's certainly possible. [19:57] Speaker I (unidentified): Yeah. [20:02] Katie Brydon: I would like to put a pin in that because they don't, I understand that it might not come to the committee should a city council committee not choose to forward the referral, but I don't think potential is right word. [20:29] Speaker J (unidentified): I've read it a few times now and I think I do think like council effects that it seems like it means like if that committee approves it. [20:42] Katie Brydon: So any requests would be, I have to read a few times for. [20:47] Speaker J (unidentified): Referral like if they did go to government office or whatever committee and then if they like maybe they happen so. [20:54] Katie Brydon: It would be like any requests will be presented to the appropriate city council committee for referral upon committee approval to the advisory human rights for review. That feels. [21:09] Teresa Fallon: Like an undue mouth, any request will be presented. Sorry, Mark, did you have your hand up? I'm actually. [21:18] Mark Roth: A little bit confused by 5.2 because I think there's any request was presented to the appropriate city council committee or potential referral to advisory committee. Is there the appropriate city council committee? Is there another committee that it would be referred to as opposed to our committee? So it seems a little bit like a double speak here. [21:47] Katie Brydon: So this is my understanding, because this number five specifically is talking about, out, should someone notice a monument, property, etc. in Bangor that has a negative connotation, right? Maybe we didn't know there was a Mr. Harlow, we should have Harlow Street or something, right? And they bring it to our attention. My understanding is that potentially that would first go to maybe Gov Ops, who would say, oh yeah, this is something we should look into, let's pass it on to the advisory committee for racial equity, inclusion, and human rights. However, [22:28] Speaker I (unidentified): what would be, what [22:31] Katie Brydon: would be the non-example? Like, would they just say no, we're not gonna [22:35] Teresa Fallon: hand it off to them? That's my con, that's kind of the way I read it too, that like this gives them the opportunity to say we will decide without input from ACRE, period. Are we a [22:48] Mark Roth: a city council committee? Yes. That confuses me more, because does that mean Gov Ops or, well, again, my reading would be a city council committee would be one [23:06] Michael Beck: of the standing committees of council members, whereas this is an advisory committee that doesn't have any real vested power in it other than your council, this is what we think. It almost [23:16] Teresa Fallon: seems like we could cut out a step here if, so like let's say I'm an individual, I find a place or property or monument that has a name that I think has negative connotation, it says I take it to the city manager. This is then saying the city manager will say, okay, that is a monument, so I will bring it to Parks and Rec or public parks committee or whatever, who then will discuss whether or not to give it to us. So couldn't it just be, if someone goes to the city manager, it's presented to us, and then we would make a recommendation to the appropriate committee, because we have the ability to do that without being asked. That's part of our charter, is that we can review and make suggestions without being asked. So [24:01] Adam Douglas Baker: the only thing I can tell you [24:04] Carollynn Lear: about for staff, if we get some, whether it's this or any sort of request, our first step is to bring it to a city council committee. Ultimately the city manager, we answer the city manager, city manager answers to the council. So for us, we get it, use myself an example, hey, the monument in Abbott, in Abbott Square, there's history needs to be looked at. I had that conversation with city manager, so manager says, and typically these things do go to government operations, we go to government operations as it Was originally written and government operations would then refer it to this committee. Potentially government operations could agree. Yeah, no, it's got to go and not for lack of better term need the recommendation here because they already made that decision. Yeah, need to be removed. So the word potential, the potential may have been that. Five zero outlines the process for staff, ultimately to counsel to you all. So that's why five one is someone brings it to staff, then forwards it to the appropriate committee. They have their discussion, and then decide, yes, we need the feedback from this group. I don't know if that's answering the question in a kind of a long way, but that's kind of how the process aligns. [25:35] Teresa Fallon: That makes sense. Yeah, I appreciate you explaining it that way. [25:40] Suzette Holly Furrow: Thank you. Could it be something simple as like by approval, if approved by the council or whoever, then it must go to review to the acre committee. [25:53] Speaker I (unidentified): Yeah, okay. [25:59] Katie Brydon: Because I do think to Tracy's point it does have to outline the steps. The steps go to the city manager, the city manager takes it to the appropriate city council committee, that's like step two, and then I guess pending their approval for referral they would send to the Advisory Committee on Racial Equity, Inclusion, and Human Rights for recommendation? It feels like a lot. [26:34] Teresa Fallon: A lot of steps. [26:37] Carollynn Lear: Is possible better than potential? So if it's no, then, yeah. [26:46] Teresa Fallon: I think I'm just skeptical about any kind of modifier like that. And I'm not saying that this council or any council in particular would do that, but just like given our past experience, you know, it is not impossible that a council could just decide to never send us anything for review and always use that potential or possible as a workaround to not include us. Mark, yes, I have a question. When a request is made of this [27:21] Mark Roth: made to the city manager, does it always go to a committee before it goes to the council? [27:30] Michael Beck: Yeah, I don't, I don't see why. I could, I mean, potential, I could go the full, but [27:34] Speaker I (unidentified): our policy is usually committee before. So how about any request, so step number two, any [27:43] Katie Brydon: requests will be presented to the appropriate city council committee period or semicolon pending committee approval for further review referrals will be sent to the advisory committee on racial equity inclusion and human rights for review and recommendations. Just simplify it by adding 17 words. [28:09] Michael Beck: I would say the only order, just caution, whatever the wording you recommend is, that you won't be able to find counsel with a policy. So again, it'll always be council's choice whether or not to recommend. Yeah, because really the policies like this are our direction to the city manager, director, the staff, not directions [28:30] Katie Brydon: to the council. So do you, does it, does it feel binding if you say any requests will be presented pending that committee's approval, referral to the advisory committee will be made for [28:43] Michael Beck: recommendation of the year even with the will be made. I'm going to get binding again. I don't want to taint this committee's advice or whatever you say is what we'll get presented to council. We'll talk about the council, but again the word potential, I thought, I think it's a fit because again it's someone will have to make the motion, I move to refer this matter to, you know, and if anything it's instructional saying this is a possibility and, you know, I don't want to bind [29:12] Katie Brydon: the council. Yeah, I understand that. Thank you, Suzanne. Council of reckoning too, because it's [29:18] Speaker J (unidentified): an advisory committee, probably, right? Yeah, that's why you can't have anything, right? I understand [29:25] Katie Brydon: that and I potential does fit. Mark, were you concerned about the word will in there? [29:34] Michael Beck: Yeah, anything like will, shall, I mean, it's always got a hint, it's a possibility. Why don't we change [29:39] Mark Roth: it to may? Yeah, that doesn't bind the counselor into doing it. Yeah, it's an [29:48] Katie Brydon: option. All right, any other thoughts on five? Thank you for that work. Before we sort of make a next step as to what to do with our language, I did want to quickly talk about process number four. This also came up in our conversation with Shane and Courtney. When looking at this, I'm not sure if there's an answer to this or if this is just a brainstorm, but the process now is that a city councillor may propose a name for consideration. The city manager may also make recommendations. Is there any opportunity for a citizen of Bangor to make a recommendation, say? That would be sad. So the city of Bangor would say, no,, no,. So in [30:54] Carollynn Lear: Very candid sense, the name of who did it, the rod came about a conversation with myself and David. So going back to what I shared with you earlier, yep, agree, I had a conversation with city manager. We actually in this case represented the council chair and council was able to vote on it. So it's a long way of answering the question. Typically these requests come through staff, most often than not, because facilities, monuments fall into the umbrella of construction recreation. That's not always the case. So there's some downtown areas that might come through economic development. [Mark Roth: So either] way, that conversation would start with staff. it is that 's what we recommend that the board city manager will have discussion with committee and 5.0 kicks in and that process got it yeah that's what was cool [32:09] Katie Brydon: Okay, thank you very [32:10] Speaker J (unidentified): much for that. I'm just wondering to council about, could a resident suggest to a council, you know, to make the council to make a suggestion based on [32:26] Michael Beck: Yeah, because yeah, because it's rather reach out to me and the, hey, what do you think? [32:31] Teresa Fallon: Well, that's, yeah, and the way it's written someone could come here to our meeting and make a suggestion. And if we like that suggestion, we can then also make there for also. I think that's still open enough. We might just have to do some education around like, we're renaming this, we want your input, what [32:50] Suzette Holly Furrow: do you think? Yeah, thank you, Adam. I'm just thinking with Shane or the concern of like council bypassing us or like whatnot. I mean, I'm just thinking like right now with our review right now we're reviewing the change board man's field already and I feel like that parameters members already a little bit already there about we at least have the ability to review. Yeah, what council changes. So like I just thought about like we have that little not safety net but like [33:21] Katie Brydon: bad advocacy. Yeah, that's right, that's right, just thought of that. So yeah, and it probably now that I'm talking out loud and hearing your feedback it does make sense. We wouldn't want like a line of people being like, this batch of graphs. [33:36] Teresa Fallon: But I'm going after myself. [33:38] Katie Brydon: So it should go through that for counselors. Thank you everyone for your feedback on that. I appreciate it. All right then, any other thoughts? I propose then that I can write up the changes that were made, send them to Courtney, me right, can include them in our notes as well, and then we can review together at our September meeting and take a vote then to send to council. Any thoughts? All right, I don't think I have to go on that, right? A vote to vote to vote later. All right, so much nods on the table. All right, thank you all. Thank you for that. Yeah, thank you so much. They really appreciate the update, and again I'm glad that we were able to do that for Ronald Jay. [34:42] Speaker I (unidentified): Well, Jason here. All right, wonderful. Thank you so [34:47] Speaker J (unidentified): Tracy, the video from the regional tournament [34:49] Carollynn Lear: And then is that available and how long? Yes, on the I believe it's still up on the Man's Field Stadium Facebook page. [35:02] Adam Douglas Baker: This is because I'm interested because I think it's great. Yeah, no, I believe it's still. [35:07] Carollynn Lear: I know they posted it. I think it's still there. There pretty sure it's still there all [35:17] Katie Brydon: right thank you thanks again you do you have to stay [35:26] Carollynn Lear: I saw your event on five so update so I can stay if you have questions about that specifically [35:36] Katie Brydon: specifically if not I mean it's a beautiful night and we're just doing an update on our we put a survey out so we're just reviewing the survey. Sorry David you have to say yes but I guess that means I can excuse myself. Thanks again. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah that was really great. All right be great to do any kind of. All right so the next item on our committee business is the committee website review and enhancements. I received emails from a few of you. Thank you very much for your updates on that. David do you have the link to the spreadsheet by chance that we are going to be discussing now that we could potentially pull up on the screen and if not I believe I do. Okay may I please email it to you? Yes [36:47] David Szewczyk: actually can I give you an email address? Yes can you send it to council.chambers [36:54] Adam Douglas Baker: That big roommate, don't you? [36:57] Speaker J (unidentified): Yes. I'm just really relying [37:02] Katie Brydon: on my hotspot for this. So [37:18] Speaker J (unidentified): that is, [37:31] Speaker I (unidentified): it's fooded me. [37:35] Katie Brydon: So let me just try one more time. [37:38] Teresa Fallon: I have to go on to the COV guest 2 was the only one I could get for. Too many people on COV guest, I guess. [37:53] Katie Brydon: Okay, thank you. [Speaker I (unidentified): You] said Council Chambers? [38:11] Teresa Fallon: Council.Chambers. [38:15] Speaker I (unidentified): Council.Chambers. you or [38:49] Katie Brydon: while we hopefully it flows through the interwebs and while we wait I tell you guys that my internet has been for me oh [39:08] Speaker I (unidentified): my god dropping messages you should have all [39:16] Katie Brydon: Obviously received the email we sent it in July, sent her a reminder over the weekend that there is an opportunity for us to just be a little bit more collaborative and thoughtful about what that we have the opportunity to put out on our page that exists for ACRE. And so in this spreadsheet, thanks so much, David. In this spreadsheet, we have potential topics for each month since we had talked about maybe presenting new educational opportunities,, materials, updates that we would want to share for different groups. If there were people that were specifically interested in topics. Also we have additional at the bottom here, community interests, web page ideas, future ideas, you know, community voices that we could engage and include. Thank you so much. And so I wanted to look at this together, talk about it. Suzette, you had said that there were opportunities that you saw for additional, this is just sort of basic template, like Google, what's January, February, March. This is not obviously an exhaustive list by any means. This is an opportunity for us to say, if there are specific months that you have an interest in and have some comfortability. I think the important thing here is to look at knowing everyone's limited bandwidth. We don't want someone to get assigned, oh, I want to take this month on, but I'm going to have to research it and look up a bunch of things and put a ton of work. We all have areas of expertise that I know for certain each of you could sit down and write a couple of paragraphs about something important to you that is also highlighting either a marginalized population, a different community group, an opportunity to educate folks on different circles that we have in our community, whatever that is. I think that this is the opportunity for you to identify what month that might fall into. If you want to write a blog about it, if you want to, sorry, I think Moxie's dog died and you just sent me an email about it. If you wanted to write a blog about it, but also if there are other areas that you feel really competent, excited to talk about, I know for instance the next item on our list is civil discourse, which Shane had brought up as an area of expertise given his work with students. Now that might be an area that he wants to take a little bit further that we can examine. We have again this entire site available where we want to be a resource for our community. We want people to know what we're doing, to know what we're talking about. So what should be on the site? And this, again, it's just like a, I don't know, blog, calendar, resource library, highlighting local residents, but did you know, short history. There's lots of opportunities, again, not an exhaustive list, some future ideas. This mostly, I think, exists because there's a lot of things that we want to do that take a little bit more of a heavy lift, right? I'm not going to lie, I've been on this committee for years and every year in like, on like May 30th, we're like, oh, we should do something for Juneteenth. It's, there's no, I think forward thinking and maybe a little bit of proactive planning, but if perhaps we had a monthly check-in on a spreadsheet, we could say, all right, let's, let's track backwards, let's actually start moving forward on some of these things. And then additionally, you know, this again, ourselves, we're not the end all be all of expertise, and we're missing a lot of opportunities to highlight some people with lived experiences and great stories to tell that we could also highlight. So that in a nutshell is sort of the review of what this community engagement planning work book is. In a perfect world, when we have a, you know, say our conference call ends 20 minutes early, we've got some time during the week, we can go through, we can look at this, we can work on it. 's not something that I would like to spend every meeting sitting around and filling out together. I think if we have 15, 20 minutes here and there to put some time and effort into this collectively, we could either highlight some great stories, build out some good stuff, and then during our time together, we could pull this up and we could say, okay, Shane, you said you wanted to do, you know, civility. You've got some research on it. Share with us what you mean by that. Do you have an article that might be worth sharing that we all want to look at together and can agree? This might be a cool thing to link for other people who are visiting the webpage to find. Additionally, you know, are there folks that are a you know have a really good story to tell about what's happening in their faith community that already have resources in ontario's to share can we highlight them and share it similarly you know our i think that this list i know could be built out a lot further and highlight some really cool opportunities to bring attention to the people doing great work in our city from a lot of different avenues because there are really cool things happening in our city every day between our, you know, different community leaders, artists, teachers, you know, even having something on who Ronald J St Pierre is and putting the video, having another avenue to spot like that, I think would be really valuable so that we're not all sort of talking about these things that are siloed in their different web pages, right, or their different Facebook pages. So this is our first time talking about this and I wanted to get questions, thoughts. I don't personally see a big need to sit here and fill it out together, but I wanted to get us all comfortable with it and hopefully in September we can say, you know, oh, I have found this really cool article that I linked that I would like to put on our web page. I also have my next door neighbor, you know, does this really cool thing for a celebration that her community does back home. She has an article that she'd like to share. Can we highlight her? You know, some ideas this year that we can just open this up, it'll be filled with all of your great ideas and we can go through it together, but we're not there yet. So are there questions, thoughts, concerns, feedback, and does everybody have access to go in here and actually like add on to February, like what, you know, additionally to Black History Month, are there other, you know, items in that month, any of these? Yeah, I have a question. So I did like [47:14] Speaker J (unidentified): I told you last year before October, so like if I wanted to say dyslexia awareness, do I just type it in beside what you type because it kind of falls under what you are putting in anyway? Yeah, employment [47:26] Katie Brydon: I don't know, yeah, it could fall in there, yeah, absolutely. So I just type it aside, that's [47:32] Teresa Fallon: what I wasn't sure. Add a row and just say like October again that way, yeah, just in case there are two people that want to do something that month that we want to hit both things [47:40] Speaker J (unidentified): then they're both in there and then so if I, if I type that in, then do I put blog volunteer too [47:46] Katie Brydon: Too, because if I wanted to talk about that. Yeah. Right about that. Yeah, that would be great. That'd be awesome. So I have a lot of that'd be fantastic. [47:56] Speaker I (unidentified): Thank you. I think [47:58] Teresa Fallon: I think we all have edit access so just I was like who's doing it 's true that is true [48:20] Mark Roth: I had signed up for autism acceptance month in April and then Elmeria said this real inclusion if I were to write a blog would it would it be just about autism no it could be [48:40] Katie Brydon: About whatever no I mean April is autism acceptance month so if you have material that you would like to write about that would be great but I don't think it has to be you know that narrow scope I think it'll be cool to have everybody's different voices and also their different [49:00] Teresa Fallon: Experiences change I'm a social media question oh well luckily our expert is yes if we're going to do some work to increase some content on our website would that be something that like through the city of Angkor Facebook page they could like share like if we're gonna have time to write a blog once a month would the city of Angkor be [49:26] Adam Douglas Baker: Willing to like share a link to that blog certainly just with the with the [49:31] David Szewczyk: Caveat that understanding that there are various departments that will reach out to our office they'll want something posted as well so we have to be careful about kind of scheduling those out in the thoughtful way but certainly [49:43] Adam Douglas Baker: Something like that could most likely be tough perfect just to you know boost like if [49:48] Teresa Fallon: We're going to take the time to do all the work that's true city website is probably not the most traveled place in the world and we might get a little bit more traction on Facebook because then people can share the link to that blog absolutely how would that work David is it is it [50:05] Katie Brydon: Should we have a robust addition to our web page would we then Courtney to send to you since Courtney is sort of our staff liaison yeah that'd probably be the [50:22] David Szewczyk: The appropriate way to do it or send it to Courtney you can cc me and then she and I speak well regularly but we sit down together each Monday and so we can talk about it at that [50:32] Carollynn Lear: Time but yeah that'd be the best okay thank you thank you just a question from a compliance [50:39] Michael Beck: Standpoint is the blog is it going to have like a disclaimer on it yes okay yes that this is a [50:46] Katie Brydon: Citizen blog that is you know contributed by a an engaged citizen of an advisory committee not [50:54] Michael Beck: Representative of city is that what you're, yeah, basically exactly. I just see the future where there may be a concern depending on what's written that account council said hey we never agreed on that. Yeah, this sounds like it's coming from the city and coming from us and you know just making sure that there's a separation there to say this is one individual saying this and not speaking to [51:14] Teresa Fallon: the city council. I bet the city solicitor could write us real nice. I was just going to say that. [51:22] Speaker I (unidentified): I'm gonna actually put that disclaimer language before each. Okay, good point. [51:49] Katie Brydon: Any other thought or any other also things that might be missing from this that might be helpful? This is just again a draft spaghetti at the wall idea of blogs, you know, sort of community highlights, accessibility tips, so [52:15] Speaker J (unidentified): that's, it's okay, you don't mind if we just go ahead like, I don't know, I think may you could add something else too, like you're saying, like you just did for dyslexia, like multiple sclerosis or, yeah, I don't, you know, yeah, I'm not going to fill it all up. You are more than welcome. [52:35] Katie Brydon: Don't you, because there are, there are so many, yeah, there's a lot, there are so many things. I literally think this is just like a copy and paper, like oh weird, like this is, this is like the very top of the everyday. Yeah, exactly. And again, I think that it would be really helpful if you do have a month that you've had a lot of information on to have it a couple of months before, right, so if you wanted to do something for May and probably having it in March that we could approve it and then we have plenty of time to go and make sure that we have whatever sort of hosting schedule or little like icons that we could additionally only add to social media that david could approve well in advance is [53:28] Mark Roth: there a mechanism for making [53:31] Speaker I (unidentified): people aware of what's on the website? I'm so glad david here for this conversation because I don't [53:40] David Szewczyk: know just driving people to material or content on the website, like there's a new edition, well, sure. I mean, first of all, we can use our social platforms to kind of promote that. But there's also, okay. Would you mind bringing up the, city website? [54:13] Adam Douglas Baker: And, if you were to go to, actually, I'm going to hand it back to you. [54:22] David Szewczyk: I don't know if this necessarily answers the question, but so [54:34] Speaker I (unidentified): I'm sorry. Oh, you're fine. [54:55] David Szewczyk: So we have, you know, the here. We have a commission on cultural development, and the commission is a little different from these other boards, commissions, panels in that the commission has their own web page. This page here. But this is the way you get to it. You go to the appointed board, you go to commissions and committees, commission, and you finally bury within our site this page, this content for the Commission on Cultural Development. And we've got some really interesting things on here, for instance, October, which is coming right up. But again, it's kind of buried. So fairly recently, what I did was I went to Community and Economic Development, and we'll get a fair number of visitors to this page. And I just moved, I created a link for, on the left-hand side here, the commission. And so for some folks, it's just to more easily find this content. So I don't know if that necessarily answers your question, but we can manipulate the website to make some material or content more readily visible to visitors to our site. So that's certainly an option. That does answer it, yeah. Okay. Thank you. [56:17] Katie Brydon: You. Any other thoughts or questions about the web page? Do folks feel like they have a candle on well one, the ability to go to this, link, fill it in. And, then you can this is all editable. So feel free also to even add at the bottom, you could also add an entire page where it just like your blog, right, that you can just write in and just add it so that we can have access to it if you are finished with it and you have it. I think if we're able to keep that in one place or, and I believe everybody does also have access to our sort of larger drive, right, on Google. We have a racial equity inclusion and human rights drive that has our but I could just turn it around really quick just so everybody knows you see here how it has this is the this is the link that works [57:33] Speaker J (unidentified): On my board hold on all [57:50] Katie Brydon: Right here we go this page this link you all I send it to you all in the July email and again over the weekend. So just double check that you have access to it because what you're going to see in this link is not only the workbook that we're talking about today, but also all of our annual reports, all of our notes, new member information, all of the ordinances and subcommittees, some of the work that we had done on some legislative policy. It's all in there. So again, if you have links, we could even add a folder in here. if you have links if you have other web pages you want to drive us to if you have a like I said a draft of your blog we could host it all here so that when we get together and our monthly meetings it's not so much like I said before filling out together and talking about it 's reviewing it and approving it so anybody that has you know concerns about accessing it or doesn't isn't able to open it or edit it please let me know and i'll make sure that 's all so that was in [58:58] Speaker J (unidentified): When you had the link for this too, right, that was, yeah, below it. Okay, yes. [59:04] Katie Brydon: yeah i apologize oh that's okay i think i 'll see if it works okay yeah and if it doesn't please let me know thank you all right if there are no other questions or concerns on that item we'll move on to our next committee business which is the civil discourse discussion something that came up as a as a topic for potential work and discussion this is vice chair Boyd's area of expertise but Shane I'm wondering do you want to quickly review the pride results first since we're a couple months behind on that, and then we can open up the civil discourse discussion, or folks all right with that, if we skip ahead quickly? Okay, thank you. Thank you. Sorry, David, you're still in the driver's seat here with that. All right, so I put together our survey. Thank you. I put together a little opportunity for us to look at the pride results from the survey that was shared during June. Okay, so it's, we didn't get a ton of feedback, but I think this lends itself to understanding who filled it out, what they had to say, and also again, if we're going to use a web page where we could potentially have the opportunity to share or collect feedback from the larger Bangor community, is this the right avenue to do so? We have a pretty 50 mix on living in Bangor, which is, I think, gives us a big grain of salt when looking at these results, but also exciting that so many folks come from outside of Bangor for pride. The age demographic sort of lends itself to the state of Maine, the largest cohort being between 60 and 70. And then, interestingly enough, children. So those are the folks that took our survey. Primarily, 50% of folks are either 16 and above or under the age of 18. We got an interesting feedback on, do you think Bangor is an inclusive place? I was grateful that there are no 's, but again, pretty close to yes and sometimes. These are some of the notes that came, I just pulled out a few pieces of feedback, as to what comes to mind regarding inclusivity and human rights when it comes to the city of Bangor. Folks said the majority of Bangor residents are supportive. Bangor is a community that supports and watches out for one another. I think it could be more inclusive. It's generally diverse and filled with many people who create welcoming environments. Some sort of stand out pieces of individual organizations that really help build inclusivity and human rights. Obviously, Pride and Pride Month, Meet a Point Sanctuary, Barn, and Dignity First. And then this, the only sort of, I don't even know if it's negative, piece of feedback was that, you know, we have this memorial, right? This crosswalk that Bangor went out of its way to make an inclusive memorial, but unfortunately it was destroyed twice. So that was the one thing that for that individual comes to mind when thinking about inclusivity and human rights, which not to be ignored. And if, obviously just reading a PowerPoint out loud you guys, but if you need me to stop at any point, tell me. What's one thing that could make Bangor feel more inclusive to folks? A lot of this has to do with activities, clubs, events, group activities, and celebrating the good, which I think is a great recommendation. I like to see that across the board, every piece of recommended feedback on what would make Bangor better is creating safe space for folks to feel like they can be with peers and be included. Folks that said that they had maybe perhaps never felt included welcome or safe again this we're at a very 44 to 55 almost in every single question piece that we have a little bit more folks feeling like they have felt excluded and welcomed or unsafe which again, it's important information to have, and some of the specific examples of feedback that were shared was the Zoom comments that happened during Bangor City Council meetings. Some people feeling marginalized based on how they're treated and interactions with folks. And then other individuals saying that you know they've heard feedback from co-workers and in other populations in groups not feeling like there's enough education on individuals you know of a diverse gender and sexual identity how they are accepted and acknowledged by the general Bangor community. Important information to have, and I can share this. I know you all have the results, but I can also share this PowerPoint. It's maybe a little bit easier to go through than a spreadsheet. Priorities for Bangor, most important in blue. Across the board, housing, there's no surprises there. The second most important thing is opportunities for culture, background, and identity to be represented at community events. I think that lends itself to what we saw earlier in terms of people really wanting to have a space to bring individuals together in a shared space. Accessible spaces throughout Bangor. When we first put this spreadsheet or these talking points together, I think this is the second year that we've used this spreadsheet specific, excuse me, this survey specifically, there was a lot of talk about there just being a free spot that people could gather and be in community and not have to like, you know, take up space at a coffee shop or buy things at a restaurant. So that sort of, you know, third space open, available, accessible, it's still, I would say I'm reading this correctly, you know, the second or third most important element to folks. But also we do have spaces for free community gatherings on here and then transparent communication between city government and its citizens. This is the last slide of data. These are the barriers that prevent folks from participating fully. Lack of awareness, which hoping we can address with our website and then physical transportation and I know that every year folks are like It's ironic that you're asking us this when the buses aren't running today because it's Saturday. So That's a real a real barrier for individuals and I Think that this information is really important in terms not only of like community life It's something that we're all sort of talking about thinking about, you know with how we engage our larger community you know is there not only access to get there and affordability to get there but you know child care are people feeling safe going there are you know there barriers to entry that maybe we're not familiar with so i know i went through that data pretty fast but i think that what i wanted to do with this is to have us look at it and say what do we do with this right i think it's valuable that folks took the time out to fill out a survey and share with us i personally don't know if there's any like direct steps to take with it but if we are talking about a web page is this one information that we share is it an opportunity to put a new and improved survey out we want to keep these metrics i would love to hear feedback back thoughts and i can go back and highlight any of the pieces that we perhaps missed [1:08:35] Suzette Holly Furrow: as well adam a general data question do we know how many people took the survey or no that was that was just one piece of information i wanted to i didn't highlight it because it wasn't [1:08:50] Teresa Fallon: impressive it's still important data so at least i mean it's hard when we when we offer it a setting like pride because there's not reliable wi-fi access like connectivity like even just like on cell phone data was not great in that location we don't have like it would be great if we had like a laptop or a tablet with a hot spot that we could bring to offer to people to say if you take that like you can use this technology take this to five minutes whatever might increase the number of people who do it that's great but i also think that it might be sorry we put that in the [1:09:29] Katie Brydon: notes for next year that we should have access to a please and thank you right to web to [1:09:37] Teresa Fallon: wi-fi yeah like a wi-fi hotspot and preferably like a tablet and a hot spot so that if someone doesn't have a phone that can get on the internet then they can still fill out the form it was hard because we had the paper ones but they're obviously not as all-encompassing as that because we did have several people who like wrote little notes on those half sheets but that data was really hard to merge with this i do like the idea of maybe revisiting the questions and potentially offering this, like not just during pride month, right? Like doing like, so I work at a school and we have to go through an accreditation process and we are going into a year of that process. Part of the process is doing a climate survey and like evaluating like where we are at as an institution. We're reaching out to all of our stakeholders, students, staff, faculty, parents, board members, community members as part of that process. And so I would like to have like a modified version of this. It's just like in general inclusivity in Bangor, not just pride focused. Yeah, but like where do people see the gaps and where are we doing well and having it be kind of standing survey that maybe lives on the website or maybe we do some social media promotion to get people to fill it out. And I think if we're gonna go that level, not to make more work for us. But there are some lovely folks who are data scientists, who I'm sure at UMaine or Hudson or other institutions might be willing to help us write better survey questions that are designed to optimize results. And that might be an interesting project for someone not me to take on to do a little bit of a redesign of those questions just so that the data I mean this data is useful but it's 10 people out of how many people live in Bangor and if we kind of blast it far and wide and target it to everyone I think we might get slightly different results. I love that idea. [1:11:57] Katie Brydon: It reminded me cancer I don't know if you remember I feel really bad that I don't Robin Sineke had data that she collected that I feel was it wasn't a climate survey but it was maybe comparable to data collection on I [1:12:20] Michael Beck: fill in the blank for me but then we do all the different community development events did people come in give feedback but also just pulling through research yeah you recall that a previous and I don't know how long ago acre committee though when she did come and visit that she was a little excited to collect the data and drill into it and I think she might be a good resource too to talk to about future surveys and opportunities like for example is it possible to say you know start a basic question are you being more resident or not and then diverge into two different surveys you know because I think a lot of the stuff in there about what are your biggest issues again just speaking for myself I'd want to drill down to like I don't know what bingo residents think absolutely you know versus you know someone who doesn't be visiting and might be thinking about public transit at home versus what we've got going on here very fair [1:13:16] Katie Brydon: That would be great, and we can definitely talk to Courtney about having Robin participate in a meeting just to talk to us about the data that she is collecting as collected might be able to help us with in the future. The other thing when you were talking shame that came up for me was probably about three or four years ago now, and forgive me because I'm just now sort of pulling it from the depths of my head, but I believe it was the Human Rights Campaign did sort of like that a rating scale of cities in the United States, and Bangor did not get a good result in terms of access, inclusion, and they were very specific metropolitan questions that we tried to dig in and see was it really fair for those questions to be sort of placed on a city like Bangor of size and infrastructure. I think it might be worth a revisit to those questions what was asked in that survey, you know, instead of sort of reinventing the wheel, what are what is the Human Rights, you know, Campaign actually looking at when they're looking at inclusive, accessible, equitable cities, what are they measuring, and how might we either not cherry picked a good score but like identify what is actually relevant to Bangor and what our citizens care about that might also be a good thing for us to look into. I do, I mean, what do folks think about the value of putting a survey like this, especially to your point that's Bangor specific to its residents, on the website, Adam? [1:15:12] Suzette Holly Furrow: I think it's a good idea. The, I think it seemed that I've been seeing a lot of Bangors we don't have a lot of data to actually like make decisions or like do things, and I think having more data specifically for Bangla residents more exactly is welcomed, or at least in my opinion, so yeah, I like the idea of [1:15:35] Katie Brydon: keeping a survey like there. Yeah, thank you. I just have a question, I think one of the things [1:15:41] Speaker J (unidentified): was about feeling safe, but what if we had just a survey for the general population you feel safe like to compare it, like not just like the LGB community in general, like what's it, maybe one [1:15:55] Katie Brydon: feels safer than the other. Yeah, or maybe it's the same. Yeah, that is that's, and that to me opens up that question of like, again, I'm not a data scientist, but that would be a really good question, like if you were to choose how you identify and then have the safety question, what are we thinking sort that data? Yeah, that's a good point, that's a really good [1:16:18] Teresa Fallon: Point, yep, yeah, if we can find someone willing to donate their time. People who do data stuff are like mind-boggling to me, because my brain cannot comprehend like all of the things that they think through, but it would be so helpful to be able to have lots of different metrics to compare, you know, this identity versus this identity on this question or this perspective. Yeah, absolutely. [1:16:42] Katie Brydon: Absolutely. Any other thoughts? All right, well, I will send this out to folks to review and have access to. And then, should it please the committee, I would love to, on future agenda, on future month agendas, talk about a climate survey. Who might we include? What individuals do we have at the city that are already asking these questions? And how might we actually drill down to get some specific advice? All right, wonderful, thank you very much for that feedback, and now Mr. Boys, I appreciate your [1:17:22] Teresa Fallon: patience. I'll be very brief because I don't want to hold this up too late, but there's something that has been on my mind a lot lately. It's like civility and civil discourse. Anyone who has tuned into a city council meeting or even some other meetings that have happened or even just looked online in some like Bangor Facebook pages or whatever. It's very clear that there is a lot of frustration from different groups of people, different topics. And the one thing that has been most clear to me is that everyone's really passionate, but no one seemingly, or most people don't know how to have civil discourse around disagreement. That it's literally, it's just, it so quickly devolves into name calling and blaming and finger pointing and arguing, and none of that is constructive, and I think there are definitely better ways to have those discussions because they are all worth having, right? Everyone's opinion is valid, and we should be able to have civil conversations about things like homelessness or about pride or about anything really, and so it got me thinking, you know, is there something that we can do in our capacity, you Know in our charter it says we can do some educational programming, so I was thinking, is there anything that we can do as a committee to kind of create more opportunities for civil discourse? And I don't know what that looks like, I don't know how it would function, it obviously would require time and effort and energy beyond what we already put in to the committee, but I was inspired. There's a group at my school that has just started working with a an initiative called the Can We Project. It was started at Wayne Fleet and it's essentially, It's actually a student focused organization that brings people together and teaches them how to have civil discussion, and how to share your opinion without feeling like you have to fight the other person if they disagree, and how to listen to opinions that are different than your own. And maybe not, you know, it's it's never about like changing people's mind. Mind, it's just like hearing and understanding a different perspective, and so they do these events every couple months called Civility, and they literally get together and they have tea and they have set like topics for discussion, and they model and practice this civil discourse working through like heavy topics, and the kids from my school that go and participate like love it because it is so great for them to be able to hear that people can talk about the things that they feel passionate about without getting angry or without demeaning others or, you know, it's just it's so like I don't know, it makes my little heart flutter. And so I know that like kids are different, right, because we they want to learn and they're choosing at that point in their life to participate in the process, and it's it's harder for older folks who are more established in their ways to make that kind of change, but I do think that there's an opportunity here for us to at least try something like, I hate to admit it, especially on a recorded meeting, but like as a private citizen of Bangor, I've been looking around a lot lately thinking like, wow, this place is just not a happy place, this is not a kind place, it's not a comfortable place to live right now, and not just because I believe something different than other people, but because of the way we treat each other and because of the way that we do that in public on unrecorded meetings, right, it's like we have no thought about how we speak to other people and That's really sad for me and, you know, like, I can't leave. I have too much committed in the city, but like, it makes me question, like, is this really where I want to spend the rest of my life? Do I want to live in a place where we have to always be afraid that we're going to be attacked if we share a different perspective? And so I don't know what the fix is for that, but I wanted to bring it to this group just at this point to just think about what could we do. If you have ideas, if you have thoughts, I think, obviously, I don't want to stay here all night discussing it, but maybe we can have a follow-up at our next meeting. If you have ideas, feel free to share them, but I don't know, it was just something on my mind. I really appreciate that. Well, with the website, the Can We project, is it the Can We project, and it's just like a page on the waynefleet.org website right now because there's like a local like Maine Homegrown thing, but they kind of list out, you know, what their priorities are and how the process works. There are some executive summaries and full reports here based on their previous work. I think they've been at this since 2022, 2021. So not a long time, but long enough to have found kind of what's working well for that group. And there might be some stuff in there that we can glean about maybe something that we can bring to the city, even if it's just like a listening session, right? Like, because part of the process is like just being in a space where you can say what you need [1:22:59] Katie Brydon: to say and be listened to. So, oh, thank you. I think that, to your point, it does kind of feel like somebody's, somebody's gonna like say something about this energy, right? Like, we're, we're all seeing it, we're all recognizing that there's a ton of things that happen in council full chambers and then spew out onto the internet, and all it does is perpetuate and folks per separate in these negative spaces, and it does kind of feel like, well, if we're the, you know, the inclusion group, should we be doing something to advance opportunities for learning in that space? Did anybody have thoughts, questions, right off the bat? [1:23:50] Mark Roth: Well, I just have a comment about what you said, Shane. I fully agree with you. However, unfortunately, we live in an era where civil discourse at the highest levels does not occur, and revenge and retribution is what happens, and I think that filters down and makes people less comfortable in disagreeing. Me somewhere, yeah, my hope is [1:24:22] Teresa Fallon: That I see, I'm coming to you. My hope is that at least in our little, like, little corner of the world here in Bangor, we can at least, like, set the stage to try to overcome that. And I agree, it would be very difficult, right? And not just, you know, one particular leader or party or whatever. I think just, like, in general, people, society as a whole, has taken a turn towards this more, like, aggressive revenge and all of that. And I just, I hope that whatever we do, we can just try to rein that in our little pocket and obviously we can't eradicate it 's never gonna go away that's just the way it is but I think just like calling it out, calling attention to it, and then providing opportunities for us to work through that a little bit, at least it helps the people who choose to participate. Excuse that, I'm so sorry. [1:25:22] Speaker J (unidentified): I was just gonna say, I think, you know, if you look throughout the country, it's kind of like, I think kind of things are so expensive. Mm-hmm. A lot of people lose their jobs, a lot of people lose their jobs to AI, young people, and then just the expense of everything, the drugs, you know, like, this is not the same place I grew up in, you know? And I think it's a lot of, for us, a lot of frustration all across the, across the board, no matter, I think, what our political belief or anything. I think there's a lot of frustration. Yeah, maybe you can have a [1:25:57] Teresa Fallon: room where people stop at the wall. We need a range room. Yeah. [1:26:08] Adam Douglas Baker: Moderate. Okay, I [1:26:14] Suzette Holly Furrow: just had a thought of instead of, maybe realizing that we have our agreeances as well, that we are ultimately talking about the same issues, is just how we arrive at those and then come together at a better agreeable point. So yeah, that's a great point. Yeah. [1:26:35] Teresa Fallon: i think that's kind of how you have to do it right like just to give an example like homelessness right like we can all agree that 's an issue that the city has to deal with i think people have very different perspectives on how to go about doing that and even though we want the same thing in the end people don't know how to say this is we want the same thing and let's just listen to other people's opinions right like there's absolutely nothing wrong with sharing what you think your solution is And being willing to listen to other people's solutions. It doesn't have to turn into like, well, you're not doing anything, you're not doing anything. And I've fallen victim to that too. I've come before council and I've been like, you guys aren't doing anything, why aren't you doing anything? And then I stepped back and I was like, why am I so mad about this? I just felt like it was because no one was actually listening. And like, it wasn't, it wasn't just council, it was like, I wasn't listening to other people. People in the room weren't listening to other people, weren't listening to council, wasn't listening to council. It was just like, we all want the same thing in the end, we just have to figure out how to get there. And I think if we learn to talk about and work through those differences, we can make progress. But until then, it's just going to be like, [1:27:48] Speaker J (unidentified): well I don't know it's not gonna be good I'm so sorry oh no don't be sorry I'm so glad that you brought this up it feels like such an important topic of conversation right now not only within the city of Bangalore but nationally internationally communication's hard like even with my partner of five years I still struggle to communicate where humans are emotions and our perceptions get wrapped up in the way we communicate and although we experience individual realities because perception is reality we are also one and we have to live on this Earth all together so I think at the end of the day finding a way to communicate regarding those different perspectives and finding various solutions to problems that we all recognize but just maybe feel differently about is so important and although it is happening at an international national level I do believe that what we do as individuals and in our small communities can ripple outward energetically and so I think it's really important And I love the example of civil T and maybe like we're talking about you know our website right now but also community engagement and maybe doing like events or something like that in the future where we host something similar could be an idea. Sometimes I think maybe the city should host like a forum with like the police department or something so people could instead of going with the council. [1:29:38] Teresa Fallon: Spread the love, right? [1:29:42] Michael Beck: Public forum, yeah, I like that. Yeah, I think that's a great idea, because years ago there used to be neighborhood meetings when staff didn't come out and talk to Gerald Richardson. You know, I don't know how long this is, like a decade or more ago, but yeah, that's an idea too, maybe somehow getting back into that. If I could just add this perspective too, as somebody who was a frequent public comment before you're elected, is I absolutely sympathize with everyone who's angry out there, because you're staring at nine blank faces, no conversation, whatever, and it's like this is the problems that folks are seeing and they have been seeing for years, and it's like the solutions here, we're giving you solutions, and now, and I understand what the council's like, and there is, everyone's got a solution on both sides of everything, and you can file that, and our policy says we don't respond, but for the public account comment or the public comment side again, it's I'm talking to you, I'm getting nothing back. Is the language of the unheard? Yeah, it's the language of the unheard, because a lot of folks who come in, you know, and a lot of folks I don't disagree with at first, or I don't agree with at first, and we end up connecting, a meeting, having a time sitting down to have coffee and have that conversation, suddenly you realize, oh yeah, because there's more, three minutes is not enough time. Yeah, you know, and then, you know, send an email, and it's great that there's no replacement for that face-to-face reciprocal conversation. And I think that, you know, a lot of the anger we see at the council meetings, again, they're not angry people, because these are super important issues. They're not being heard. You know, and so if you're looking to explore different ways, maybe it's a possibility to stay late at some of the meetings, and if people want to have a conversation, you know, and kind of get our feedback, and maybe find a way to suggest something to council, how can we better facilitate those, like going to the forum, not just the place, but because for a while we were going to do the, before I elected, they were doing coffee with the council, those kind of things, and we, and none of those events have happened since I've been elected, you know, whereas any opportunity where we can try to meet people where they're at in the morning in the afternoon on weekends if maybe you know so everyone has a chance who just you know because a lot of people can't show up at seven o'clock on monday but you know maybe that would be a good recommendation maybe some feedback you've received rather that here are some ways you can reach people where they're at to have those more genuine you know reciprocal conversations rather than just you know give the listening face right yeah i [1:32:12] Katie Brydon: love that i think that a lot of good ideas have come up from that i would love to keep this on the agenda and talk a little bit more about it because when you said community forum i remembered and i keep hearing about this right the last time there was a drug crisis and they weren't his bath salts in like 2011 or whenever that was there was a community forum and people got together at gracie i think it was and talked about what the concerns were what the feedback was what the you know police involvement and education was and we talked about that all the time we talked about as a school board like should we have a community forum for like ai right and technology there are so many things that people want to talk to city leaders about that they don't have the opportunity and in lieu of making counselors say even later you know after their meeting adjourned to sort of corner them and ask them could that be something that our committee could do is like could we start hosting forums right where we could pull together the city staff and you know some community experts on topics that we're seeing bubble up maybe that's something in our next quarterly discussion with gov ops we say what are the most what things do you hear the most about who could we pull together for a community forum that we could be hosted by acre and that we could have like a panel that could address some of these things where people could have a back and forth really like that idea I think that's yeah and we could [1:33:43] Teresa Fallon: almost do i mean there are so many topics people want to discuss it's hard because we have to go at it for like six days in a row to do everything but maybe once a month and each forum has a different topic yeah so maybe it's like in january we are discussing homelessness and in february we will talk about whatever yeah and that way it will kind of narrow the scope a little bit obviously like people are going to go and say whatever they want to say right but if you give it that direction to say Like the purpose of this, it's to share your thoughts, your feelings, your concerns about X. Yeah, and have maybe, and it doesn't even have to be, like, obviously we wouldn't, it couldn't be all counselors because then that would be a meeting. Is it the three or [1:34:25] Michael Beck: more counselors constitutes a meeting or oh well it's three or more in discussing city members [1:34:31] Teresa Fallon: Right, so maybe we do it on a rotation and two counselors come each month. Yeah, and it's two different counselors each month plus the staff, or give counselors a break, let it be staff and us, or members of, you know, depending on the topic, the advisory committee on homelessness or the housing committee or whatever it is. We don't have to, we don't want to make you guys go to a million and a [1:34:55] Michael Beck: half meetings. Sure, obviously if you are inviting multiple comes, the caveat is you just have to publicly notice. Ask me publicly notice good, three or more, so anybody can come and participate and you see it, witness it or whatever. This has to be publicly noticed with enough notice. Yeah. [1:35:14] Katie Brydon: Well I think that gives us a lot to think about, some right discussions for next month. Thank you so much for sharing the, can we, I just sent out a quick email that has the link. Thank you again for sharing that, read through it, if you have any questions obviously reach out. Counselor, I apologize that you always lose your man, your update time, but are there [1:35:39] Michael Beck: any updates that, I mean, the biggest issue that we've been dealing with lately is, you know, the Yellow Pines establishing KIP and the CEA, so that passed and then we just had a workshop on Monday where we went over all of the potential agreements that we had, some feedback back given, we have a few more. I think one of the things that we heard from the public is we want to make sure it's as transparent as possible, so making sure that the CPA publishes, if I understand it, you know, so that's moving forward. The agreement has not been settled yet, that's kind of something worked out, but we've given our marginal as the city manager and staff of this is what council is okay with, they've got to reach the agreement now with Bangor Housing and then Project Hope. It's something that was proposed to us, kind of intensive case management services, it's still pending with council, that was postponed Monday during second reading. It's being proposed that 126,000 unspent appeared settlement funds that was Left over from the HIV case management service that they were held, or they were public health had done, because they received money from Maine General, let's say, work. This is unspent funds now that has a possibility to use for something else, since the public health is saying, hey, let's use that the local match for this programs remain housing, which mean housing will be put have 300,000 of that. It's it's still pending, so that's been moved to next month for continued workshop discussion and back. From the formal council, and last but not least, we have appointed seven members of the nine for that divisory community council. Great, so I don't, they don't have any means can go yet, and aware of they have still, they have not yet. Yeah, first seven members have been appointed, but we're still looking for more applications. [1:37:42] Speaker I (unidentified): From the last few spots, we're a big one right. Great, thank you. Questions, I. [1:37:52] Katie Brydon: Appreciate those updates as always. All right, then without further ado, can I get a motion for adjournment? I make a motion to adjourn. Thank you. Thank you. All in favor. Wonderful. Thank you all so much.