Eliot Budget Committee reviews school sewer plan, long-term financial forecast

[0:16] Chair: Recording in progress. Meeting is starting. Wow, hi everybody. Today is Wednesday, October 14th, 2026. It's six o'clock. This is the Elliott Budget Committee meeting. Thank you all for joining us. Boy, new acoustics. First is our roll call. Dan Shannon, Diane, I'm here. Gene, Brad is here. Jim Ladder was going to join us on Zoom. He has not done that so far. How did he just comes in and Heather I'm sure is either in route or at work. So we've got five members present at six [Speaker B (unidentified): o'clock and] we're learning our new system here. Are we good? Yeah, okay. Any conflicts of interest? Anybody? Okay, good. Let's quickly review our minutes from our last meeting, September 9th. I'm still getting used to the AI tool you use, but it does a good job. Any [2:02] Speaker C (unidentified): inputs on the minutes? We're good? We're good? [2:12] Speaker D (unidentified): Yeah, yes, but I wasn't here, but I can still vote if you need [2:17] Chair: Sure. Yes. And does that understand it? The parliamentary nature of it is that your yes vote isn't a yes to the factual nature of it, other than we reviewed it properly and we accepted it properly. So could we take a vote on the minutes? [2:37] Speaker D (unidentified): I'm sorry, did we have any amendments? [2:40] Chair: We did not. Okay. And someone wants to make a motion. Second. Did someone want to, was my question, I'll move that we accept the minutes [2:55] Dan Shannon: and Dan will second that. Okay, Dan here. Shannon, yes [3:04] Speaker C (unidentified): Gene, yes [3:06] Speaker B (unidentified): Great [3:08] Chair: Thank you. So our next item, we moved up our guest speaker because we appreciate him spending some time with us after the normal work day, but we're hosting Kyle Coolidge, who's a senior project manager with the Ty and Bond Company. Ty and Bond is a, I guess y'all are a major, what, you manage these projects on behalf of your clients. Yep. [3:45] Kyle Coolidge: New England. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Hello. I'm Kyle. Hi. Nice to see you all. Yes. Nice to [3:51] Chair: to be back. Tell us about Ty and Bond, because I'm sure some people are watching and not understanding what you all do for us. Sure. Ty and Bond, Gene, let me see if I can hit the share [4:01] Kyle Coolidge: on this, see if this shows up. Yep. All right, Len, if I hit presentation mode, [4:14] Speaker B (unidentified): it'll look a little better. [4:17] Kyle Coolidge: All right, there we go. So I'm Kyle Coolidge, Senior Project Manager. I'm primarily a wastewater engineer. That's my history. Time Bond is the one water firm. We do water and wastewater. And of course we have all the support services as well. So we do basically everything. The only thing we don't do is consultances survey. We usually don't have licensed surveyors on hand. So Time Bond, I'm in the Portland office. So pretty close here on the north side. We have folks that are helping Elliot here out of our Portsmouth office. So we've kind of got you surrounded with our folks. So thank you for having me. And then you want me to jump right in? [5:04] Chair: Well, yeah, I guess what we were thinking about in bringing you here is that we understand that the school system, the school district has a problem with wastewater in the middle school, which is something that it appears Elliott has known and talked about for decades, and it's come to a head in terms of what they need to do given the deterioration or the situation that they're in where they don't have a sewer, and that building's been in use for many decades, so Dr. Eric Kalian was in here a couple of weeks ago a couple of months ago and they went through not the detail but just that 's an issue as they come into their new budget season and so we thought it would be good for us to hear sort of the expert side of what they're up against and what the town may be drawn into to support us fixing that problem they've got. [6:09] Kyle Coolidge: Yeah, okay. I've got about five slides. If I can have a floor for like 10 minutes. Well, right ahead. I'll jump right in. So little introduction, we've got the time bond part. For those of you that don't know me in time bond in our role here in Elliott is we've essentially been serving as the owner's project manager for the sewer upgrades, the 14 to 17 million dollars worth of construction. I'm sure that slowed you down around town at times over the past several years, so we've been here for several years working closely with Mike, the town manager, as you know, overseeing, so managing scope, scheduled budget type of stuff for the sewer projects. Now that the sewer project is finished, makes the water and sewer expansion, we are here to support you with things, all things sewer, because you don't have a sewer person on staff, so we're here to help you with things like new connections, how to connect, where to connect, what the sewer fees are, you have ordinances in place, and so we're here when Mike has a question about that or Norm at the town has a question, we are regularly, particularly sort of maintaining a contact with Tim Babkirk at the town of Kittery. He's the gentleman that operates your pump stations in town. So we have open dialogue and communication that's part of the intermunicipal agreement between the town of Elliott and Kittery for wastewater treatment in Kittery. As part of expanding the sewer, you obviously want to have sewer connections, right? You're providing this as a service to the community, protect the environment, promote economic development. There are a lot of good reasons for the sewer expansion. We weren't here when this was conceived, but we're seeing it now that people are asking about connecting, one of which is the school, the Marshwood School. If I do a quick overview, this is just a high-level schematic of the sewer system in Elliott. At the orange line is the path that the sewer would take from the school on the top left down 236 through 236 pump station through Beach Road pump station and then follow the orange line through another Kings Highway pump station and then be pumped across the causeway up to Kittery where it gets treated there. That's the general flow path. if you look at the school itself and see in the top right sort of above the track there 's a field that is the current location approximately of their on-site system for treating the wastewater it is a subsurface system but the way that it was designed was such that peak flows that the system can't handle ultimately overflow they go through some disinfection treatment but then they overflow to Sturgeon Creek which is just off to the right in the photo here that is called an overboard discharge That is legally permitted currently, but overboard discharges are highly desirable to remove or eliminate because that's an improvement on the environment, right? So you can imagine, yeah. [9:49] Chair: Two things. One is Jim Ladder just joined us. Hey, Jim. And the second thing was I had a question on that diagram or that picture. So that top right, no, where you were, the photograph there, the top right, you said was essentially the leach field. If I use civilian terms,, where's the flow that you just said, the excess flow? How does it physically go? What direction does it go from that field? [10:24] Kyle Coolidge: What you can't see in the right here is Sturgeon Creek. [10:27] Chair: Flows from around the school to the right. So that's like underneath and around the track? [10:34] Kyle Coolidge: Yeah. Let me see if I have it here. This, I can't see my cursor, but on the top left, you see the dark spot that snakes along the top left that's Sturgeon Creek. [10:50] Chair: Yes it okay I [10:55] Speaker B (unidentified): Did okay. Is there a specific pipe that drains into the Sturgeon Creek? Yes it [11:01] Kyle Coolidge: is a specific point source, permanent. What size is that? I don't, I don't have those details. Yeah, probably on the order of like a 6 or a 10 inch. [11:16] Speaker D (unidentified): Okay. I have a question. Oh, yeah. This system was installed originally when the school was built. I don't even know when. And I'm sure it was built for the amount of students at the time. Is part of the problem because we have more students, or is it just the system is old and not up to new standards? That's a good question. [11:40] Kyle Coolidge: I honestly don't know, because we haven't been asked to evaluate it. The school has just come forward and said, we have an aging system. We know that we're going to have to do something with it. And we know that the sewer was expanded, right? Sewer system expansion got really close to the school. And so I think it's a bit of sort of the stars are kind of aligning right now for them. I DO ANTICIPATE WITH AN OVERBOARD DISCHARGE PERMIT THAT RENEWS, IT'S PROBABLY ON A FIVE-YEAR CYCLE FOR RENEWAL. THE DEP DOES ASK THE SCHOOL TO LOOK AT ALTERNATIVES TO ELIMINATE THE OVERBOARD DISCHARGE THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, FEASIBLE FROM AN ECONOMIC PERSPECTIVE. And so this one naturally will come up. Yeah, and when the school is looking at, you know, we've discussed preliminary costs with the school to make that connection, and while I don't have their numbers, they are seeing this connection to the town is the right choice economically. AND THE TOWN, MY FEELING, INTERPRETATION IS THAT THE TOWN ALSO SEES THIS AS A GOOD WAY TO SUPPORT THE SCHOOL AND THE COMMUNITY BY ALLOWING THEM TO CONNECT TO THE SEWER SYSTEM. [13:06] Speaker D (unidentified): ARE YOU GOING TO GET TO THE LENGTH THAT THEY HAVE TO DO THAT? [13:09] Kyle Coolidge: YEAH, I WILL. A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS HERE. YEAR, I WILL SAY THAT THE SCHOOL HAS DRAFTED SORT OF A MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING WITH THE TOWN FOR PAYING FOR THE SEWER SYSTEM. SO THEY'RE COMMITTED TO FUNDING THE CONNECTION THEMSELVES. I WOULD SAY THAT THERE'S BEEN SOME DISCUSSION AND PROBABLY WILL BE MORE DISCUSSION WITH the town about whether or not you want to pursue some additional capacity in the school area or beyond, and how much you want to make for an investment at the same time, right, because there is an economy of scale when you double up on projects. So looking at the connection in green on the far right, it's hidden under the square there, but that's Arc Road. If everyone in town is familiar, that's where the sewer comes through right now. So the extension would be from Arc Road all the way over to near the baseball field, and then the connection point to the school system would be behind their school by the baseball diamond up there on the top left. The details of where the public versus the private would transition are still sort of up in the air for discussion, but that's the general route the sewer would take. Geez, I didn't get the total length, but. [Chair: Oh, okay.] There you are right there. Like 0.9 miles total. Good observation, Gene. Yeah, for the profile. 0.9 is the total. There is a dip along the route. Yeah, there's a wetland area that crosses under the 236. You in that area as well? They [15:34] Chair: were talking about being able to add a second. [15:36] Kyle Coolidge: Is that what it is, adding a second turtle crossing? [15:40] Chair: Yes. The second one they wanted. [15:42] Kyle Coolidge: They wanted a second one. So that's currently discussed as part of the scope of the project is sort of a double environmental benefit. Eliminate DOBD and add a turtle crossing while you're there [15:54] Speaker D (unidentified): doing the work. Would this be built in the road or built in the easement [15:59] Kyle Coolidge: off the asphalt surface. Good question. The design is not finished, we're at the concept level, but I do think that it's likely it will be out of the pavement. Hallelujah. And likely for cost reasons, but it's not a, it's not a slam dunk because the grade drops off there, and so you have to have freeze protection as well, so there'll probably be a balance in terms of feasibility for putting the pipe in the ground. I thought it might come up in terms of capacity. We are keeping an eye on the capacity that you own through the intermunicipal agreement, and currently you're averaging around 100,000 million gallons per day going through the flow meter over to Kittery. And you own capacity on average daily capacity of around 400,000. So there is plenty of capacity for connections right now. You're at the beginning of the year. You're going to have a lot of connections right now. You're going to of the wave of sewer connections, I think, that are going to be coming. [17:11] Chair: Was it anticipated to bring water out there, too, or just the sewer? [17:16] Kyle Coolidge: That's come up more recently, and my feeling is that there's a good chance it's going to get added. I think the school also sees the benefit in the economics of putting in the water while you're out there digging the trench. [17:33] Speaker D (unidentified): Where does the water currently run to? [17:35] Kyle Coolidge: It's similar, Arc Road. Oh, okay. Yep. I believe KWD, I think Mike has talked to KWD, and I believe they're supportive of that for the town and the community, that connection. Good question. Currently, there is plenty of capacity between the school and Kittery through the pump stations. There are no capacity-limiting factors that have been identified at the present. We are taking a closer look at that as part of reviewing a capital improvement plan with the town over the next few months. But right now, the system will handle the flow that will come from the 236 and Beach Ridge, Beach Road pump station stations. Stations. It does and it will and it is anticipated that a significant upgrade is coming to Kittery and a significant portion of that cost will be allocated to the town of Elliott through the intermunicipal agreement. The numbers are very high level at this point so nothing in concrete to share, but that's probably my sense is that Kittery upgrade is probably a five to ten year timeline, but those that large of an upgrade will take time. The capacity on the [19:28] Speaker D (unidentified): Elliott agreement is there's plenty of capacity there. It's just the capacity in Kittery to take everything may change. [19:39] Kyle Coolidge: Well, you've purchased the capacity in Kittery, so what happens now is you share in the capital cost to maintain that capacity through [19:49] Speaker D (unidentified): whatever upgrades are needed. Well, I know that Kittery is concerned with a lot of the developments, more recent development in Kittery affecting the sewer systems. Is that affecting the ultimate? [20:01] Kyle Coolidge: Yeah, just to flip that around, Kittery better not use up the capacity that they have allocated for you. Right, that's the purpose of the intermunicipal. [20:13] Chair: So that $400,000 number, you say we've bought it, we've reserved it. [20:17] Kyle Coolidge: No, you've paid for it. Yes, you had $200,000 prior to the sewer extension, then you bought another $200,000. [20:26] Chair: How do you buy it? An option? [20:29] Kyle Coolidge: Well, the intermunicipal agreement, you pay a fee that goes towards the capital of essentially buying it. [20:38] Chair: Okay. So what's the total capacity of this system? Do you know? [20:44] Kyle Coolidge: I don't know off the top of my head. [20:48] Chair: Double what we have? What we own? I'm talking the capacity of the entire Kittery Water District. [20:55] Kyle Coolidge: Oh, Kittering? Yeah, I don't have that number. Yeah. [20:59] Speaker B (unidentified): The additional costs of the school being added to the system will be borne by the school department or by the town? [21:10] Kyle Coolidge: It would be by the school department. [21:12] Chair: well and see that the discussions I've had and have heard is that 's why and I brought my notes here from the meeting that we had with the school superintendent that they proposed three options option one the school only connection which they call lower cost option to the shared infrastructure structure, which is the higher cost, but that enables Elliott to use that capacity for its residents. And then the third option, which is them just putting in a new wastewater treatment system, replacing what they've got. But I don't, they didn't have exact numbers, but the magnitude, it was like the wastewater to replace, it was like 6 million versus 2 million to just hook it up to, you know, they were crazy difference. But the point was they had looked at these other options and that despite the fact that Elliot may have to board some of the cost of it would be the most effective option. Part of the other conversations I've had is that if Elliot says well let the school district bear the entire cost we're gonna pay for it anyway, through the school district assessments to our citizens. So, yeah, so ergo, let's do the most efficient, effective financing because in the end, we're all going to pay for it. So let's make it the most productive way to go. But I guess I'm coming back to that notion of how much is it going to cost? You don't have any sense of numbers at this point. Your involvement is so high level. [22:59] Kyle Coolidge: In the ballpark one to two million depending on what the town decides to take on for any potential [23:07] Chair: public capacity in that area and the public capacity i.e giving properties along that way an ability to get into it and beyond correct [23:23] Kyle Coolidge: That's the question yeah do you want to sewer anything beyond the school [23:28] Chair: Well, there's your Marshwood Estates question. [23:30] Dan Shannon: So I'm wondering, on Depot Road, is that what they're considering? [23:37] Kyle Coolidge: Currently, I don't know of anything that's being considered for sewer beyond the school. That's why I think the cost is really not locked down. [23:46] Dan Shannon: Okay, but when you look at the map, the current buildings or properties between Arc Road. I don't have them you have the transfer station oh I see down there yeah so it's not you know residential anything like that in those spaces those this [24:07] Kyle Coolidge: particular time right at this time don't know of any shared connections along the [24:14] Dan Shannon: Green line, I have another question, and that on the map that shows the current path that comes from the Kittery and feeds back to the Kittery treatment. That's almost all in Elliott. There's just that one little section in Kittery. Does it go where else does it go in Kittery? [24:34] Kyle Coolidge: That end of the line is the treatment plan. I realized that, but I mean that the only section that's in Kittery is from [24:43] Dan Shannon: passing over That map because that map I'm just wondering what else feeds into the Kittery treatment plant. On the Kittery side? Yeah, on the Kittery side. Gosh, there's a lot. So in other words, there's all these different feeds that would be showing. [25:01] Kyle Coolidge: We're not showing any of that. You're not showing any of that. Okay. No, the town of Kittery, shipyard, it's all. [25:08] Dan Shannon: It all ends up there. Okay. It's on the shipyards. [25:12] Kyle Coolidge: In Kittery, yes. In the shipyards. Yes, it is. [25:25] Speaker D (unidentified): About the capacity of the Kittery water. Sure. [25:29] Speaker B (unidentified): It is permitted at 2.4 million gallons per day. [25:33] Speaker D (unidentified): Is currently using a million but it's not at its capacity. Well I just know that with a lot of development in Kittery that some people are concerned about water and sewer. Thank [Chair: you so] There's only a handful of properties between the Arc Road and the school, so and most they're all industrial properties and there's a big chunk of wetland, so the school would just be paying for their connection to the to the road or would they be paying it down to our. So I think the way that it will likely shake out [26:19] Kyle Coolidge: is that the portion that's in two in the state road will be owned by the town because it's in the state road state right-of-way accessed by the state and then the portion where it veers off from 236 is a question, right, how far do you want it to go in the state road 236 and where do you [26:40] Speaker D (unidentified): want to make that. Well the school is only going to pay for their connection from the back of the school building down to the road. Are they going to no they're they're willing to pay for the [26:50] Kyle Coolidge: connection all the way for their portion of the flow all the way. Oh okay yes so for example if you if you knew there was just for simple simplicity another school beyond Marsh with the same size you might allocate the costs in the state road at like 50% for each something like that right and so you just the town just has to decide how big they want the pipe it's part of the project it's like a [27:21] Chair: negotiations topic. Yeah we're kind of yeah right I mean ultimately it's all coming out of the same place but how it gets divvied up I'm sure yeah we talked [27:35] Kyle Coolidge: About that, we, you know, we've been working through Mike on, you know, potential other connections, connection with the water. So my understanding is, [27:46] Chair: Mike has been doing the outreach and talking with folks in town. What, what kind of time frame [27:52] Kyle Coolidge: have they given you, or are you operating under, generally speaking, operating under, like a construction in 2027 time frame? Oh, so okay. And is that, if the school did do that, would that be a bonding issue for them? They would bond that out? No, they're, they're the town and the school did apply through the town for a state revolving loan funding and it was approved this fall. So the funding is there in terms, mostly in terms of a loan, and I do know that the school, the school is continuing to seek out grants to help. [28:37] Speaker D (unidentified): There must be some federal grants. [28:39] Kyle Coolidge: We submitted a grant to the Overboard Discharge Program and the DEP. I haven't heard about that. So I think still gaining momentum on the funding side, and some discussions still need to be had. So we're planning some workshops for the town and the school to sort out those things. [28:58] Chair: Because really this is about protecting the environment. We can talk infrastructure, other benefits, and that kind of thing. But the bottom line is they've got to fix that problem of that stuff going into the creek. They do. Period. [29:14] Kyle Coolidge: I also like to think there's probably, you know, the school's mission is to serve students. It's not wastewater, right? So I think mission priority for them is to focus on education and let the town handle the sewer side. [29:34] Speaker D (unidentified): Well, I think this also is going to clean up a lot of that discharge going into Sturgeon Creek all the way down, which affects all the way down to the river and all the people living along it. So I mean, a really great idea. Is that discharge tested at all? I believe it is through the [29:53] Chair: permit but i don't know what the requirements are it 's compliant yes and i don't you know she just spoke to the fact that it is compliant but that to maintain the status quo is unacceptable because it will go out of compliance and that's what's driving the school [30:14] Speaker B (unidentified): district to do something. What would cause it to go out of compliance? The system can't [30:21] Chair: scrub, yeah, so add stuff out at a high enough level, basically. Yeah, I mean an aging system [30:28] Speaker B (unidentified): will eventually fail. Yes, it would have to. The septic system would have to be [30:33] Kyle Coolidge: Replaced, yeah, and keep it, and then, so you know, the overboard discharge is grandfathered, so to speak, and so when they change or upgrade the system, EP will require them to eliminate the overboard discharge, and that translates into a lot of cost for an on-site system for [31:01] Speaker C (unidentified): years off and on, like when they had lots of rain and different issues. I remember, you know, for years off and on [31:16] Kyle Coolidge: there was been issues popping up. Yeah, I think this is a great project, but a great environmental benefit. It's a great option for the school to maintain their focus on education. I think from a technical perspective, it's great to have a large user at the end, very end of your sewer system, because that tends to flush your system every day, you know, with say fresh wastewater, but it helps with odors and keeps things moving, so it's a great project all around. Good. [31:50] Chair: So you feel good that as a scientist, science person, oh yeah, in the big picture, this is a the right thing to do. Absolutely. Good, and also moving the [32:00] Speaker D (unidentified): water line up there would also be good, because they'll be on the big user on the end too, so it's not stagnating at the end. Yes, and is there hydrants up there now? No, I don't think so, just at arc fire hydrant on the end of the loop there. Anyways, added protection for the school. Well, yes, you can, you can [32:20] Kyle Coolidge: bring fire protection right into the school at that point. That's huge, along [32:23] Speaker D (unidentified): on that stretch, too. Yep. Sounds [32:28] Chair: good. Yeah. So you were involved with Mike and the select board, obviously, to move this thing down the track. Yes. I'd be very interested in either having you back or someone else back once the numbers start to shake out. Yeah, absolutely. [32:45] Kyle Coolidge: When the workshops happen and the scope is defined, we'll move into design, and then we can absolutely come back. [32:54] Chair: or to put some flesh around it. Yeah, exactly, and I'm very interested in this financing thing, because wasn't at one point you thought you were going to be able to get a real big chunk of money and we, yes, so the application to the [33:10] Kyle Coolidge: clean water SRF program, the overboard discharge ranks you very high from an environmental benefit perspective. Unfortunately, the field competition, there was a lot of competition this year, and it didn't, you know, we had our fingers crossed, but it didn't, we didn't get everything we wanted. [33:33] Speaker D (unidentified): As far as overall costs in construction, have they been stabilizing? I'm sure they're not down, but I know they really took off for a while. Yeah, right. [33:43] Kyle Coolidge: I remember cost estimating projects when inflation was 14%. How do you wrap your arms around that? That. It did start to come back down, but I would say right now the cost of diesel is going to push the cost of everything up. Diesel is the base of everything that moves around in America. So it runs the excavators, it runs the dump trucks, everything. So I'm not making any predictions but I don't see the costs I don't see a dramatic decrease in inflation and [34:21] Speaker D (unidentified): costs coming up right so I mean now pipe is available and all the material available for [34:26] Kyle Coolidge: these things problems with that material availability is good it's it's just the cost of energy is going to pass through to the cost of everything when did in 27 did you say that [34:38] Speaker C (unidentified): that they're gonna start construction? [34:40] Kyle Coolidge: There isn't a date yet, but what we've talked about for a timeframe is doing the construction in 2027. [34:49] Speaker B (unidentified): Does this project include the removal of the septic system completely? [34:57] Kyle Coolidge: Good question. I don't know what the permitting requirements will be for removal or demolition. Certainly, disconnection and capping it, I don't know if it physically needs to be removed. Probably pieces of it will need to be, I would expect. [35:15] Speaker B (unidentified): I would think the tanks would have to be removed. [35:17] Kyle Coolidge: Tanks, probably the pipe to the creek, things like that. The rest may just lie fallow. Yeah, thanks for having me. [Chair: Yeah, this is] something that the community can really get behind. Yeah from environmental and school oh yeah those are great things to support yeah absolutely so you've got my email yeah Mike and I talk every week so [36:00] Chair: we'll be in touch I'm sure yeah that [36:09] Kyle Coolidge: sounds great you're welcome I'm just going to hit the stop and close button here. Think them out. [37:00] Chair: But we're your favorite client. We cannot hear you. [37:14] Dan Shannon: I can hear you fine. But we [37:19] Chair: can read lips. We cannot hear you. Say something. [37:29] Speaker D (unidentified): Say a few syllables. [37:33] Chair: Well, if he needs to really say something, I'm sure he'll jump up and down. Any public comment? Thank you for coming. Yeah. I think it's going to be a very, good thing for the town. It's a good thing. Yes, you know that to be true. Okay, moving on. Any BC member input or correspondence you want to bring up? I had one thing I wanted to discuss. Here we go. I chatted with Mike last week. And he gave me some detailed figures that I wanted to pass along. As you all know, and Jim, this is what I texted you today, this document I'm passing out. Christine, you're welcome to take a copy. OK. Sure. So what he gave me was their unaudited results with respect to what the increase in the unassigned fund balance will be. Basically, he's calling it the total leftover or return from fiscal year 26, i.e. what we collected in revenues and didn't spend in expenses, is which is kind of nice. And those are the monies that flow back into that unassigned fund balance that enable us to do all kinds of good things without affecting the taxpayer. So if you skip down to that third line, the unassigned fund balance at the end of fiscal year 26 was $4.6 million. And then with the additional two, they estimate it to inflate to $6,738,962.48 if you deduct the carryover that is proposed. And as I understand it, those carryovers would be monies that would be assigned to specific things like public works or whatever. Ever. And so they would stay in reserves, but they would be assigned. So that would still keep us with an unassigned balance of $5,488,962. So it's good stuff. The rest of this document speaks to what our assigned reserves are. And that would be that detailed sheet we looked at the end of last fiscal year where it goes into the dozen or two dozen specific reserves, fire department, police department, etc. And then the sewer fund, well, that's all part of our reserves. I got to drill down and think about what it all means, but ultimately we've got monies in those reserves for sewer, and then the 236 TIF balance is the last three lines there. Basically, these would be all of our reserve funds, the unassigned, the assigned, the sewer fund, and the TIF balance. So once the audit is completed, these will all be refined, but I think they're pretty good-looking numbers. [Speaker G (unidentified): And] One thing I observed and I've tried to put it into words, we benefit because the town's style of financial or fiscal management is to have very good expenses budgeted and then controlled very tightly. And then the revenues we estimate conservatively so we estimate a little less and we tend to underestimate what the reserves are. I'm sorry, what the revenues are. We tightly manage the expenses so they don't go up anywhere that they shouldn't and that becomes the excess that we're able to retain, i.e. This year, $2 million worth. Because fortunately, our revenues tend to bubble up and be a little bit higher than we think they're going to be. So it's good stuff. Any questions on that? Like I say, once the audit is completed, these will all be refined. Okay, so item number six. I wanted to talk a little bit more about what we think we can do as first steps to begin this project of developing a budget forecast, really more of a financial forecast. You know, we talked about interviewing people, although already I'm starting to get a sense of things that are on the horizon. Simply talking about this sewer extension means that, you know, potentially in two years that there's going to be an effect on the budget. And so that could be, you know, a milestone or an item that would slip into a budget plan or a budget forecast. So Jim, you've had all the experience doing this. Tell me what you think would be a good couple of first steps to try to flesh out something here. Oh no, take off. No. Turn off your mute. It's off. Turn it on. Up the volume. Get that Logitech microphone. It is off. I'm having microphone difficulties. Houston, we have a problem. Okay. Well, I get... Try something else. He is an IT expert. Well, the one thing Jim had talked about was literally interviewing the town manager, the finance director, and others about plans they have, what they're thinking. This whole exercise is basically to reduce to maybe one piece of paper the vision, year 28, these kinds of things, year 29. And then hopefully begin to apply, well, you know, that could impact this, that could impact these line items, you know, whatever they might be. And what Jim had mentioned, he's had experience in physically doing this in a town. And it just, you know, it's just like a comprehensive plan. It's just one more piece of the, you know, trying to... A little further out. A little further out, but with an air, with an eye to, you know, dollars and cents, because you can pie in the sky all kinds of things, but you want to see what kind of impact that could have over time. [46:07] Speaker D (unidentified): So you're talking about long-term capital things coming up? [46:09] Chair: Yeah, we were talking, you know, at least five years out. [46:12] Speaker D (unidentified): Yeah, no, that's good. Five to ten. [46:15] Chair: Five to ten even. Of course, you know, once you get something put on paper, you're going to have something you can revive, revise every year, which is sort of the real goal. But Jim had mentioned a couple of action items so that we could kind of jump on to maybe start to flesh this out. Can you talk now, Jim? [46:44] Speaker D (unidentified): We finally get a silent Jim. What? I think it's good to know what's coming up over a five- to ten-year period because clearly the school's going to be an impact one year, and then seeing what else might be coming down the road and try to balance when those are happening. Managing debt. Really, that's what it is. [47:16] Speaker C (unidentified): And not only that, but, I mean, like, the town manager knows, his departments know when they have big equipment or whatever, how long it usually lasts and when it's out there that they need to replace it. So they could throw that in the mix, too. So that helps. Fire department. Yeah, the fire department has a, and the police. [47:37] Speaker D (unidentified): Not as much, but the fire department has some big purchases. [47:40] Speaker C (unidentified): Right, and they've got requirements that have come down the line that have really impacted them that I think are going to impact them more. [47:48] Chair: And it could be a sooner than later impact as well. Right,. Even with the building. Not things they can postpone. Yeah,. Yes. Well, I say that generically. You know, I read that report, too, and a lot of the things that need to be upgraded are physical, structural rooms, to configure the rooms, the size of the rooms. So, yeah, that's going to have an impact on, you know, a capital impact on that building. I think too something Mike brings up a lot when we talk is this the specter of us having to replace that causeway where the sewer system moves the sewage into Kittery remember on that little map yeah everybody who's from South Elliott and or has lived here knows that there's a big pipe underneath that roadway that goes past the Yacht Club there. Isn't that a state? [48:52] Speaker D (unidentified): You're talking about the causeway itself or the pipe? [48:55] Chair: Pipe we own, the pipe is part of the sewer system. And there's a concern that whole causeway may need to get redone, not just a pipe. So there's the specter of what kind of capital investment and impact that would be. [49:12] Speaker D (unidentified): But the road is the state, isn't it? [49:14] Speaker C (unidentified): The road is the state, and the sewer thing is a joint thing between Elliott and Kittery. Because I know when they had to do some minor repairs a few years ago, I don't know how minor they were, but there was both Kittery and Elliott were involved with the state. All three entities were there when they were doing things. [49:35] Chair: We're liable for some major expense when and if that thing has to be replaced. And Mike brings that up as, you know, that's something that's out there. [49:46] Speaker B (unidentified): I think when they do the construction on the causeway, they will take into consideration they will not shut down that sewer line. There will be a workaround somehow. [49:59] Chair: Well, I don't think it's an issue of it being shut down. It's an issue that it's deteriorating, and it will have to be replaced, and we're on the hook. [50:08] Speaker B (unidentified): I mean, the line is going to have to be shut down. I mean what replaced is the sewer line itself yes that pipe we're on the [50:19] Chair: hook for that pipe I don't know how much of the actual causeway were on the hook for but he speaks of that pipe being a concern it's right on the Kittery Elliott line so it's like a joint but it's part of the sewer system and we own the sewer system as a town. [50:38] Dan Shannon: So we're just talking about the causeway right now. What about the cost? [50:48] Chair: There you go, yeah. Hey, how about now? [50:51] Speaker D (unidentified): Can you guys hear me? Oh, he's back. [50:54] Dan Shannon: 1988, right? [50:56] Chair: Well, I think the challenge for projects like that is putting a time frame. [51:01] Speaker C (unidentified): Right, so it's [51:06] Dan Shannon: too bad that we can't coordinate it with the other things that we do on the side of the road. [51:15] Chair: What we're talking about, Jim, is we're kind of brainstorming here about how to start trying to flesh out a long-term financial budget or plan for what we're going to spend. [51:30] Speaker G (unidentified): Yeah, I think one of the keys is don't get bogged down in any deals like this sewer plan or anything else. Let's just say, you know, what do we anticipate our revenues and revenue growth to be? what do we see as our overall expenses and expense growth to be and then you can layer in any other any you know impacting projects on top of that but i think to start we want to get a revenue growth projection curve and a and a spending growth projection curve to almost extrapolate the last couple years just yeah and we all understand that the further away we get from today the fuzzier it is and that 's built into the model right well and not [52:20] Chair: Every capital expense or capital project will manifest itself, you know, in a tax increase, you know. We got to build that into how we might think, right? And if you have, you know, some kind of a [52:32] Speaker G (unidentified): framework for a capital improvement plan, you can kind of benchmark that, and again, you know. You know, anything that's like, you don't have an RFP for anything that's kind of like out there in the future, it's a placeholder, and we know that. But at least when you start to get to those decision points, you can look back and say, well, what did we think this was going to be, and how is it different, and how is that going to impact all the other things we want to do? [53:02] Chair: Right. Right. Well, the scenario I envision is, you know, we keep talking all these different projects that we want to get done in the next three to five years. Yeah, let's do that. Well, then you make a list of all of them and you put it in a three, four, five year thing and you're spending $50 million to get all this stuff done. [53:21] Speaker G (unidentified): Right. And it might turn into a 12 year plan. [53:24] Chair: Well, but I guess that'll force you to, well, no, we want to do this, but we've got to then prioritize or put on a longer timeline. but you see it 's all on one page at least the theoretical single view that yes then you can start to go oh or well we got an opportunity or whatever it turns out to be we've always had like [54:01] Speaker D (unidentified): a five-year plan at work for specific things, and then some things just keep getting pushed off because they're a low priority. You'd like to do them, but not cost effective, or not, do you do it [54:12] Chair: for the, for the total municipality, or is it just for, it was each department, like I had to do [54:18] Speaker D (unidentified): one for the building we were in. Yeah, each department had a long term, but then will [54:23] Chair: they merge those to give you a grand plan? Well, everybody [54:31] Speaker D (unidentified): was aware of what they wanted, and it was fire, DPW, police, structure of buildings, you know, they were all, had their, they all wanted their stuff, but it took a while to pick and choose what was most important, and then some I could blow them completely out of the water on the next new building. So all that went away. [54:51] Chair: Well, to me, if you get it on a page, then you can begin to prioritize, because at least everybody's singing off the same piece of music. [55:02] Speaker G (unidentified): Serendipitously, I am at a screen, so I'm going to try to share the most recent one I have if it's possible. Let me see if I can do this. Can you guys see my window? Yes. Ooh. So this was after about 10 years of doing this. this. This is what we came up with. We have an introduction. We have a forecast, some revenue in a sentence, and I'll send this to everybody. So yeah, blah,, blah. Here's our story. We figured in the school forecast and their increases and I'm going real quick here, but so we, you know, we, projected out revenue forecast. We've rejected out revenue know, expenditures, it shows where our holes were. We defined our assumptions. We built in all the school reimbursement. We built in what our expenses were, Medicaid, you know, blah,. And we don't do this. This is just to give you an idea of what this looks like. You know, some various revenue lines. Then we can get into a little bit of detail for revenue, and it's just best guess projecting out. [56:52] Speaker D (unidentified): I'm sure that Kristen would have some of this information. [56:58] Speaker G (unidentified): Right. I thought we had a graph here at some point. [57:02] Chair: That's what we're trying to get to. It gives us all the headings. You've done a wonderful job of kind of setting it up conceptually, what you want to look at. I don't think Elliot is nearly as [57:19] Speaker G (unidentified): and we had it looking backwards you know this gives us the list of receipts we were getting you know and here's a perfect example when you're doing revenue forecasts you know library revenue can triple and it doesn't really matter right so you know you're really looking at your big ticket items to look at what's you know here's the new growth number that's important in Massachusetts because that's the only way you can get revenue above your prop two and a half limit without an override and then we drill into expenditures so [58:09] Chair: you did this in 18 [58:13] Speaker G (unidentified): in 19 we did it in every year from when was the bad budget crash 2008 so i think it was from 2009 on okay so this is this is 10 years of maturity into this so what year was this [58:39] Chair: report done in 18 2019 in 19. [58:45] Speaker G (unidentified): this was done oh maybe 18 i forget where yeah may 19. [58:58] Chair: of course everything got blown up by the pandemic yeah you know it'd be interesting i mean it'd be [59:05] Speaker G (unidentified): edge i could probably feed this into my ai and yeah you know grab a couple of years budgets and say hey this really looks like let's see if i can yeah let's see what an early one looks like 2013. Here's their most recent. We can look at the most recent. This is post gem that looks like they're using pretty much the same forecast. Imagine that. And it is, it's the same forecast. So all they're doing is once they've built it once, they go back every year and say, okay, let's plug and play with the new numbers. [1:00:00] Chair: They just said the next year they can keep moving one year. I don't want to speak. [1:00:04] Speaker G (unidentified): I don't want to speak. Beverly had some challenges this year, and I called one of my colleagues and I said, you know, didn't you foresee the revenue for shortfall or expenditure? However, the hole was created. I said, the forecast project that. And he said absolutely we knew this was coming for two years. So I'm just saying that once you get it built it trying to look at my first one here there's a lot of towns in Massachusetts [1:00:41] Speaker D (unidentified): I can't find it that are having struggles a lot of it's because there's no new growth if it's [1:00:48] Speaker G (unidentified): Slacked way off right and I don't want to I don't want to go to school on I just wanted to show you the format and the kind of thing that we looked at and how we built it and you know what we what were the what were the data points we used to try to project forward and you know you listed out all your reviews and you and you look at anticipate you know past growth and you try to extrapolate that out to future growth and you know if there's things that you know that change that 's part of the Narrative and that's part of the you build that into the storytelling about your assumptions you know if capital improvement you know if there is going to be a sewer project and something else I mean the other piece to this is that we it I think the schools should be part of this discussion because you know their growth impacts you know budget pressure or relief however you want to look at it if their enrollments go and up their enrollments going down and you made a very apt point earlier that If the school district bears all the cost of that sewerage lineup it's still coming from the taxpayer it's coming from the same people it's just coming from a different pile right you know so if the school assessment goes up because they're carrying all of the sewer project then yeah that's going to create budgetary pressure on us if you know they don't cover any of it and they don't create any pressure but then our capital costs go up the pressure is still there and it's it's still well I think [1:02:31] Chair: You know, create some form of impact. That example though is perfectly illustrates the benefit of doing this because you could do a what if, you know, what if the school pays for it, boom. What if we pay for it? Boom. You have a framework to begin to understand [1:02:52] Speaker G (unidentified): those impacts. I don't want to revisit that. We covered that. But I would think some form of shared agreement between the district and the town would be to the benefit of everybody. [1:03:04] Chair: I get a sense that the decision makers are leaning that way. Nonetheless, for our purposes here, for our person, the first step is to sit with the town's [1:03:17] Speaker G (unidentified): finance manager and say, you know, here's a list of revenue lines, here is a list of expense lines, can we look backwards and see how they've grown and extrapolate those out forward to see, you know, where potential pitfalls or opportunities are. And since I have this, I will share this with, I'll, I'll share the 2019 one because that's the last one I was part of. Thank you. Well, [1:03:47] Chair: I think that is a as a as a template or at least as a the headings that it includes in that report sure would be a [1:03:57] Speaker G (unidentified): good place for us to start. Yeah, I mean, you could probably take the rep and, you know, mock it up and say, you know, a lot of this doesn't, you know, affect Elliott, but some of it does. And well, I think big [1:04:08] Chair: Big picture, it probably all applies. We don't need it all because we're not at that same level of organizational sophistication or size. But I think it's a great template. Yeah. But to your point, we're not all that different. [1:04:28] Speaker G (unidentified): It's what? We're big enough that, I said, we're not all that different. Correct. The scale is different, but we're a municipality like they're a municipality and we do the things they do so even though the numbers are bigger in a bigger city it's not like comparing elliott to boston it you know it 's it's it's definitely [1:04:51] Chair: comparable. Yeah, it's the same circus, just different clowns. The scale is different, but yes, the overall is very similar. But again, it's just a great place for us to start. And I also like your recommendation of starting it simply by just extrapolating the growth numbers in revenue and or establishing growth numbers with our revenues and expenses because we've got data going back, you know, 10, whatever years. Yeah, sometimes the state compiles this information. [1:05:21] Speaker D (unidentified): I know in Massachusetts, Jim, you can get all this on the website, but I don't know about me. [1:05:25] Chair: How do they compile it? What do you mean? Well, you report up to the state. [1:05:31] Speaker D (unidentified): What your revenue is and all that stuff. A lot of that stuff is public information in Mass. I would assume there would be some level of that in Maine. Good place to look. [1:05:42] Chair: Yeah. Okay. Good. Well, good. Good discussion. Thank you all. Any other thoughts? Any other pearls of wisdom? Well, good. Okay. Our next meeting is given the Veterans Day holiday. We're doing it Thursday, November the 5th. So it's the week before our normal meeting date, which would have been... Oh, I [1:06:09] Speaker G (unidentified): will be out of town. [1:06:12] Chair: Wednesday the 11th. So we're doing it Thursday the 5th. So early. So early. [1:06:17] Speaker G (unidentified): Oh, wait a minute. Let me double check. [1:06:19] Speaker D (unidentified): Just after the election. [1:06:21] Chair: Yes. The election is... Oh, I'm actually [1:06:23] Speaker G (unidentified): in... I am actually... here that night [Chair: you will be] I will be because I'm leaving on the 6th I thought it was so that works good well [1:06:41] Chair: It should be a good meeting. I like Brian Jamrose. I call him the town's money manager. He's our, he manages our money at the Bartholomew and Company, and I think he does a good job, so he'll be full of the details, and he's been around. I just sent what I showed you [1:07:02] Speaker G (unidentified): guys to everybody, so you guys can poke around at it at your leisure. So yeah, Thursday, November [1:07:12] Chair: the fifth, here at six o'clock with Brian. Okay, anything else? Good deal. Motion to adjourn, someone them? I second. Okay. Well, then you second. Second. [1:07:31] Speaker D (unidentified): Question. I think we can do a voice [1:07:36] Speaker G (unidentified): vote on a motion to adjourn. [1:07:38] Chair: Yes. Brad. Aye. [1:07:40] Speaker D (unidentified): Diane. Yes. Jim. [1:07:42] Speaker G (unidentified): Yes. Dean. [1:07:43] Speaker C (unidentified): Yes. We are adjourned. [1:07:50] Chair: Thank you all. Thank you, Jim. Good to see you. [1:07:55] Speaker G (unidentified): Good to see you guys, man. [1:07:56] Chair: Thanks for joining us. Good stuff. Thanks, Gene. [1:07:59] Speaker G (unidentified): Like I said, I don't feel bad. I just feel a touch of a cold, and I didn't want to give it to Brad. Sneeze on us. [1:08:07] Chair: See you. Click. So just turn your mic.