Acton Warrant and Finance Committee reviews land purchase, transfer station articles

[0:00] Joyce Bagshi: This is at 605 of the Warrant and Finance Committee, town of Afton. And this is actually our first meeting of the 2026-2027 year. Being our first meeting, we should always start off with a bang. So I did that for you. I left our agenda in my printer at home. So we're going to play that easily. And we are going to be a little out of order tonight, but what I would like to do first is I would like everyone to introduce themselves, and Joe, could we start with you introducing yourself? [0:44] Joseph Romer: Joseph Romer, I've lived in the town for 50 years and raised two kids and went to the school system. Moved out of town to the big city and they've been well and they come back and appreciate it. And I, three years, I've been unable to go to any of the meetings or anything, and when I retired I spent more time and got on committees to see how I could contribute to the town. And here I am. [1:18] Lori Woods: Lori Woods, I live in Acton on West Shore Drive. I've lived there I think for nine years now. [1:25] Speaker D (unidentified): I've been a warrant finance for two, this is my third year. [1:29] Lori Woods: Lived in Shapley for almost 30 years prior to that. We love Acton and I'm happy to be able to help in the towns and in playing the kids. [1:38] Joyce Bagshi: Joyce Bagshi, lived in town for 27 years. I love moving from the big city to here. Everything about it makes your heart warm. Any way I can give back, I'm glad to do it. [1:58] Lori Woods: Margarita Borgl. I also live in Acton on West Shore. I've been a part of Acton since I was a kid. I grew up in Sanford and I've lived in Acton now for, I don't know, eight years or something. So, yeah. [2:11] Arthur Kelly: Arthur Kelly. I've had Kelly Orchards here at Acton for about 45 years and been a resident for about 15 months. [2:22] Ronald Warhouse: Ronald Warhouse. Moved to Acton in 1966, so I've been here for a while. Now, all the way through, did a tour in the Navy for 23 years and moved back home. And this is home. And I live up on Acton Bridge. [2:54] Joyce Bagshi: Shall we start the meeting by slitting the flag, please? [3:02] Ronald Warhouse: Congratulations. To the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [3:15] Joyce Bagshi: Thank you. As I said, we are going to do things a little out of order tonight, and I do want to thank the two selectmen here tonight, John Denningham and our liaison, Tom McGurney. Some of what we're going to be going over tonight is the article for our special town meeting, which will be October 28th at 6 p.m. the articles on this and what we're discussing tonight but Tom is going to fill us in now so we don't have to keep him here while we go through our total if you all would read that article [3:58] Lori Woods: and you have more information [4:02] Joyce Bagshi: and Tom can fill us in on what needs to be filled in [4:07] Speaker G (unidentified): I'm happy to talk about those articles But I wasn't prepared to make a presentation. Let me start with a simple one. Yes. At the transfer station. Correct. The retaining wall associated with a safety issue, design work done about how the transfer station Are you holding that up for a reason? [5:05] Joyce Bagshi: Just so my other people can have it. Oh, okay. This is a picture of the collapsing retaining wall. [5:14] Speaker H (unidentified): So, I just know from watching it at home that if folks speaking are not at the podium, it's really hard to hear. So, Tom, if you might, it really makes sense. Sorry. [5:28] Speaker G (unidentified): Sorry. So that retaining wall has collapsed. They've got some temporary barriers there now that are not suitable for long-term public safety. And so we need to address it. As we were considering what to do with that, we were also looking at various designs that had been prepared by our engineer of how we might reconfigure and enhance the traffic flow associated with the transfer station. One of the ideas was to put in a second, the [6:10] Speaker H (unidentified): terminology means trash hauler, [6:14] Speaker G (unidentified): that people come and dump their trash, to put a second one there, because that's where a lot of the bottleneck is right now. People get stacked up, and sometimes they're out on the H road. So we decided to fix this by constructing a wall that would, if we go forward with that broader project, would serve us well for the placement of the second hopper. If we don't go forward, it's still a very economical solution to address the current safety issues. So it seemed like a twofer. So that's basically the, that is, there's some conduit that needs to be run for $2,500. There's a cement pad that will go under this trash bin, if you will, that will be taken in and out by the hauler. That concrete pad is about $6,500. hundred dollars and then there's excavation and the installation of [Joseph Romer: cement] Blocks, these are the large cement blocks that you might have seen. They're used for landscaping really, but they're very sturdy, very heavy. So to excavate enough so that those can be put in place in the right location at the right height and install those, and that's $23,000. So in total that's $32,000 that we would want to fund from a designated fund. Does anybody [8:14] Joyce Bagshi: have any questions [8:16] Arthur Kelly: about that? Yes, do we know what the cost to operate the transfer station is per day? Well, [8:27] Speaker G (unidentified): we know what the budget is and we know how many gates are open, so I suppose we could easily figure that out. Is that your question? Yeah. Dividing one into the other. I don't happen to have that on the top. [8:39] Speaker I (unidentified): The budget's about $470,000. [8:45] Ronald Warhouse: That's not going to give you the operating cost. [8:49] Speaker G (unidentified): That's the budget. Why wouldn't it be the operating cost? I'm asking Mr. Rollins. Why wouldn't it be the operating cost? [8:59] Ronald Warhouse: It would include the operating cost, but you have labor costs that are in your operating costs. You have transfer of the containers, et cetera. [9:15] Speaker G (unidentified): Those are all included in the budget, which is what I think you were asking for, right? [9:19] Arthur Kelly: Well, I guess, are there any alternatives to adding a second hopper, for instance? Such as? Such as an extra day. [9:32] Speaker I (unidentified): I can answer that. [9:36] Arthur Kelly: It's a seasonal kind of issue, right? [9:37] Speaker I (unidentified): So part of the problem with the transfer station is we don't want it, so sometimes we're sending out a three, four, three quarter full hopper. It cost us war to ship that off and it cost us for the traction side of it. So now we would be sending off two completely full hoppers, that one fills up, he can start the next one. That's not included in this, is just to fix the wall. [10:16] Lori Woods: John, did you say it was about $450,000? So if we just work off the three days a week, which I know in the summer it's four days, I'm not going to do crazy math, but at three days a week it's about 156 days a year they're open, and so we'd be looking at about three thousand dollars per operating day, a little less than that when you consider the summer days that were open, which is what, an extra maybe 16 days in the year, maybe, yeah, maybe twenty hundred bucks. Thank [10:58] Speaker G (unidentified): you. Yeah, anyone [11:02] Joyce Bagshi: else? I [11:05] Joseph Romer: just like to see that the next phase, it's not part of, did the next phase be priced out according to the end time so that we know where we're standing six, eight, ten months down the road? [11:31] Speaker I (unidentified): That's not part of the warrant, Joe. We're here for this. We're not here to talk about the next phase of the transfer station. [11:37] Joseph Romer: Well, you know, but I think it's important. [11:40] Speaker I (unidentified): We're here for the warrants. [11:42] Ronald Warhouse: Well, let's discuss the second or the first warrant article. Then you can leave, sir, and so can Tom, and then you won't have to ask any questions and we can talk about it. I'm trying to answer the question. [11:58] Speaker G (unidentified): This is not why I'm here. No, it isn't, and I don't think it's why anyone else is here. I know it's not. I'm trying to be respectful. You can ask your questions. Quite frankly, I don't care if you ask about the next phase. There's very little to know at this stage, so I don't know how much we can respond. Fine. I take the spirit of your question. And given that it will be on a warrant, there is a process that the town has laid out for the development and approval of warrants that are brought to either the town hall or put on a ballot. And that process will be followed. So exactly what that timeline will be, whether it's six months, ten months, I don't really know. It depends upon the time of year that project is developed. But we will be, we're respectful of the traditional timelines that the county has used. [12:52] Joyce Bagshi: I probably should have said before, and we will get into it after this, but one of the issues that hasn't come up on this Phase 1 is there is a critical safety issue on that wall caving in. And that has to be taken care of. Whether or not there's a phase 27 to this project, it doesn't matter. It does not matter. The safety issue has to be taken care of, and we have to be smart enough to do things once, not put a bandaid on it and have to go back to it later. It can rip it up again. So if we could go forward with any other pertinent questions. [13:38] Speaker G (unidentified): Can I move on to the actually the second article? [13:42] Joyce Bagshi: Yes, thank you very much. [13:47] Speaker G (unidentified): The select board members have occasionally had conversations and a desire to acquire additional land for the development of... We don't have any. They've kicked around the public, actually, to have a building for that or a building for this. We have none of that. But we were made aware of a piece of property at the end of April. The real estate agent came to us and asked if we did. And as we talked about this amongst the board, this seemed like sort of a once-in-a-lifetime. Adjacent to the town property, the town buildings, parents, a very usable lot that is buildable. And reasonably priced before it gets impacted at around $200,000. We discussed the interest in buying that property at this stage. Went to the real estate agent, the property owner and said, look, we have a process to go through. We have to, you know, take a warrant to a town meeting and get them to approve it. So unlike some of the buyers who can come along, put a deposit down and move quickly, we're not able to do that. And are you interested? And I understand that the property owner would actually like to see it sold. So, the stars were aligned, and we said, if we don't do this now, we probably will never have this opportunity again. And since I've been a selectman for four and a half years now, I've heard a lot of people talk about an interest in having more of a town center. [16:11] Ronald Warhouse: A center to town, I should say. [16:13] Speaker G (unidentified): Exactly what that is. You know, I think everybody can have their own. So, when the board talked about it, there was unanimous interest in going forward, and that property would have a cost of $199,000, and that's what it's on the market for. For four acres in Acton, it seems very reasonable to us. [16:45] Lori Woods: So... Especially the location. [16:47] Speaker G (unidentified): Especially the location. You couldn't write it better. Yeah. And one of our board members said, gee, we shouldn't buy it until we know what we're going to do with it. I've got to tell you, my reaction was, it wouldn't bother me if we bought it and sat on it for 10 years. I mean, to land bank that thing is, you know, at some point, some future selectmen or residents are going to be happy if we bought that. For whatever the reason may be. But last night we talked about some possibilities of what we might use there and use it for and again, no building and there seems to be an interest. So we'd like to go forward and acquire the property, a little entertainment. We have engaged an engineering firm to come in and do what's called a phase one environmental study of the property. And just to make sure that there weren't any activities there on the property, historically, it might have created, because once you buy a property, you own it. You might be able to go back to the original owner, but probably not. So we're having that done, and that's going to be done shortly. That's about $2,000 to have that done. But basically, going back to records, trying to find what kind of filings there may have been or activities that may have been on the property. As of right now, we don't know what that is. We've looked at our own records here in town, and we could not find any sort of activity on the property. So I think that explains the nature of the warrant, what we want it for. It generates a lot of discussion about, once we have it, what might we do with it? What might we want to do with that? And that, I think, could be very interesting for the town and create some interest within the community. But I think it's a good place to start and see if you have any questions. [19:16] Joyce Bagshi: There will be a public hearing on this next week or the week after. [19:21] Speaker G (unidentified): I believe it's within the next week or two. Two weeks. [19:25] Joyce Bagshi: And which will be, I think, an excellent way to get the public in here, get their idea. I have an idea, and I think I either said to you or Ed, as soon as we win the lottery, okay, I've got a great idea for that piece. Okay. But that's only my opinion. Okay. And everybody needs to have their opinion. But if anybody has a direct question as to the viability of buying, purchasing, or not purchasing this land, the whole idea that it's there, and for $2,000, which is really little money, $2,000 to do the study on it. [20:16] Speaker G (unidentified): That's just an environmental review. No one's digging holes or test beds or anything like that. [20:25] Joyce Bagshi: No big deal. No big deal. [20:28] Lori Woods: Do you know if we'll get those results back prior to the meeting? [20:32] Speaker G (unidentified): Yeah, the sale of the property, the purchase of the property will be contingent upon receipt of that Phase 1 study that would indicate the property is clean from the scope of the Phase 1 [20:50] Arthur Kelly: study. Just having, I mean, it's not going to go down in value. Over time, the property will not go down in value. Right, exactly. And it's probably prudent to be able to control whatever happens there. [21:02] Speaker I (unidentified): Yeah. I would agree with you. [21:04] Speaker G (unidentified): And I believe there's quite a bit of interest in that property. Since that sign has gone up, there are a number of people interested. I don't know if they've gotten a purchase to seal the property. [21:18] Arthur Kelly: I mean, I've been contacted about property specifically for things like storage units. I mean, that's the kind of thing. [21:30] Speaker G (unidentified): Yeah, we don't need any more of that. [21:32] Arthur Kelly: It's in the village zone. [21:36] Speaker G (unidentified): Yes, it is. It's zoned commercial one, I believe. And allowable uses include municipal uses, recreational purposes, that kind of thing. So it's all permissible under the zoning. Anything that I think we would want to do? [22:00] Joseph Romer: Steve Byke and I walked part of the property the other day. Who did? Steve. Steve Byke. Oh, okay. He's not here tonight. It's fairly low. It's good soil in the level part of the group. It goes back into like a crease where the water and the soil comes through. There's a wetland there. And ironically, it's close to Mary Grant. [22:30] Speaker D (unidentified): Oh, really? The best of that property? Yes. The best of that property. [22:32] Joseph Romer: Yeah, I don't know. I'm talking about Mary Grant and these, I believe, right across the street. Was it Curve Road? Right across the street. Okay. All right. So there's a possibility there. I don't know. I couldn't get into the place that's closed downstairs, so I couldn't see what the nomination exactly was. But it's a nice piece of property. I think that if the town does buy it, I think the town should first of all mow it before winter, get that section mowed down. And there's a dead apple tree, I believe, knocked over and make like a little mower path from into that to the bottom of the city. You could walk there and then in the spring you could walk around and say, hey, this is what we've got. And I think that in the future, if we developed it, would be nice to get a building committee and get a bunch of suggestions from the citizens, like they did when they built the school, they had a committee, to get different ideas from different people rather than just one person or a group of people. But I think it's a good investment. [23:44] Speaker G (unidentified): I'm purposely trying to stay away from buildings because they're expensive and I'm open to it but I'm not trying to suggest it in any way our agenda at this time I could see that it could be done [23:58] Joseph Romer: how many people can you fit in this structure? I don't know [24:09] Speaker G (unidentified): I've grown to love this building And we do have a school, and many communities use this school for voting and so on and so on. But if we need another building, if the community wants another building, God love them. I'll do everything we can to get it for them, but you're [24:27] Ronald Warhouse: not going to see me push it. [24:29] Joseph Romer: No, but in the future you're going to need it. Yeah. Just like you're going to need to do some of the transportation. Yeah. [24:38] Joyce Bagshi: Other questions? Anyone else? Thank you very, much. [24:46] Speaker G (unidentified): Does that conclude my business? [24:52] Joyce Bagshi: Go and have a wonderful evening. Very well, John. Have a good evening. Thank you, John. Guys, in this packet, we have all of those things that we talked about, and you also have a copy of the concrete that's in there, and that was prepared by the office for our perusal. Now before we get on to the ward, which is going to be the last thing we get on to this evening, we have to talk about what we do as a committee. And as soon as I put my glasses on that I just threw on the floor I gave it to everybody and it starts off with an ordinance to amend acting subsistence warrant and finance committee ordinance and this was, goes back to 2011 and it is the current ordinance that we're working on. And if you just take a quick look at it, go to part one, act in warrant and finance committee duties. The committee is an advisory body only. I think we all agree with that. We look what comes forward to us and we are just that. We shall review all proposed warrant articles, except any article which involves the election of a municipal officer. And we shall obtain factual data to determine the effect on the town. All right? That means we're open to get any data from any chairman, which you will read later on in there. Okay. After due consideration and a study of proposed warrant articles, the Committee shall make recommendations whether the proposed article should be approved based upon our consideration of both the general advisory of the proposed warrant article or its financial impact. That. The committee may also provide non-binding recommendations to warrant article authors during article development, but we cannot author a warrant article. In other words, I think you all can see, if we see something that doesn't quite make sense, and I don't care if it's a grammatical error you know I always something like that I always go back to the old joke that shows up on computers every now and then let's eat grandma let's eat grandma two very different sentences with two different very different end results that can happen been for the human being, city typing, you know. So that kind of thing, yes. But we're not here to write the article. We shall provide its recommendations to the selectmen regarding proposed action in accordance with any previously enacted warrant article, which is written to require the recommendation of the Warrant and Finance Committee. Okay? Does that make sense to everyone? Article 2, Organization, Election, and Meetings. The Committee shall be formed of six standing members plus two alternates. Both standing and alternate members shall serve for a two-year period with three standing members and one alternate member elected every year by plurality vote at the regular town meeting. During the enacted year, one additional alternate member shall be elected for a period of one year. The rest of it is pretty standard on how we are elected. If you go through that and have any questions, bring them up now so we can clear them up. Here we're starting to get in C, D, E, F, G, all of these things. The committee shall be called by the chairman or by the vice chair in the chairman's absence or by the selectman. The selectman has the authority to call a warrant and finance meeting. Every year, a selectman shall be assigned by the Board of Selectmen to regularly attend committee meetings and to liaison with the committee. The liaison is not a voting member of the committee. Now, one thing on that is in the past several years, it's not in the ordinance, but looking into it and looking into Robert's rules, it has happened by consensus. We now have warrant and finance meetings simultaneously with the select board, so that means during budget seasons we will be meeting on Wednesday night. When we're talking about the budget, we're sitting seated on this side of the U, they're sitting over here. Chairman come forward to both the selection and the board, our board, to give their wants, their needs, the whys, the what-fors, and we are all able to, every one of us, to ask any question that is pertinent to what they're bringing forward and what we are doing. Pertinent to the budget, all right? Pertinent to the budget. So that's very important, and that may have, some of you knew a little earlier, it was said that we weren't going to have a single liaison because we were meeting with the entire board. But then when we looked at the ordinance, we have to have a particular, you know, liaison. And Tom graciously accepted to be our liaison again, which I'm very happy to have him. Every year, one or more committee members shall be assigned by the committee to regularly attend the meetings of other town boards and committees and shall liaise with said board and committees. Plain English, one of us will be assigned to other committees in town as a liaison and you have the right to go to said meetings of that other. Someone wants to be a liaison with the planning board, okay, you can go to the meeting. You're not a voting member, you're not, you're there to listen and learn and see what's going on. I think you'll find, experience tells me, that unless you liaise to the school committee it's not really necessary to go to budget season. You want to go to the fire department or you want to walk to the transfer station, that's something else. Just make sure that time is right for them. We don't want to intrude on anybody. We keep it nice and straight and very much in the open and straightforward. When there is on to the next three, vacancies on the board. If we have a vacancy on this board due to a resignation or any other reason other than a term expiration, they are filled in the following manner. The following manner is more legalese blah,. But if someone is gone and we've missing a member, the select board will temporarily appoint someone to this board. The select one can appoint and that person serves until the next. And then we go through the voting process again. Adoption of policies. This is a big one, and this is a change from the last three years. The committee may adopt other policies, procedures, and rules by which to govern itself that are not inconsistent with the ordinance. So any time we want our own policies, they cannot be inconsistent with the municipal ordinance. And having been on this committee now for, I think, almost six years – five years anyway – we know what our job is, we know we represent the people. I think it's a bit redundant to have other policies because we know. We know we're not going to go out and meet at Joe's coffee shop and have a meeting off the books. We don't do that. All our meetings are public. They are open. We can ask for or we can simply accept comments from people who are willing to give us their time, and I think that's a really good thing. I applaud Bernie for being here tonight. It's always nice if more people come in, and then you don't have people saying, oh, I didn't know that was going on. When was that talked about? Maybe at a half a dozen select board meetings, because before it goes to us, they've talked about it, and talked about it, and talked about it. And then we talk about it, and we all go through it. So that was kind of a long way of saying we welcome people at our meeting. In this package we have, I sort of went over but standing operating procedures very simple if it comes to push comes to shove and you know we just can't come up we do follow the abbreviated Robert's Rules of Order appendix A, okay, that fall back on anything. The committee shall make every effort to consult with municipal officers and officials if it deems necessary to fulfill its obligation to town meeting. The chair shall present any legal questions to the town administrator to put forth to MMA, Maine Municipal Association. The committee shall discuss and all business, all business in a public forum, strict adherence to the State of Maine FOAA, Freedom of Access Act. And all state members shall have a voice at every meeting, even when not a voting member. A little side note on that. A quorum of this committee is four. If we don't have a quorum, an alternate will be appointed as the fourth standing member for that meeting. The committee shall require five business days to review all warrant articles before taking a vote, except for extraordinary circumstances,. What we're looking at tonight, I would consider extraordinary circumstances because our special town meeting is going to be in how many days? It's a number of days. It's 14 days or less. So we'll get to that afterwards. The other thing that we don't, I've never had it happen or seen it happen, but committee members must function as part of the committee. Members must not act or claim to represent the committee without the consent of the committee chair. Since this is our procedures, I would like to change that a little bit to say without the consent of the committee as well as the chair. And the reason I say that, a chair can say, okay, I can go talk to them myself. That's not our province to do. And if we find it's necessary to talk to somebody, it's very easy to ask the committee if they agree or don't agree. By consensus, would you agree with that? Sure. Joe? Yes. Roland, mm-hmm. This is the last page. I'm not going to go over it too much, but we will get to it. The Warren Finance Committee is a body of officials elected by the town meeting. Good. We work closely with the Board of Select and department managers, committee chairs. The roles. The chair calls a meeting, sets a date, time, and location. Sets meeting agendas. Requests actions to approve or adopt draft minutes of previous meetings. Manages the conduct of the committee to the extent necessary, in order to maintain orderly business. Vice chair takes over for the chair when the chair is not available or absent. The secretary prepares the minutes of each meeting, recording at a minimum, as I see your writing. Record all motions or actions taken on each motion by the [Lori Woods: committee, the] time and place of the meeting, the members present and absent, and alternate members appointed to act by the chair. Prepare and distribute the minutes to be approved at subsequent meetings. Alternately, members may approve minutes by email, provided no change is necessary. Well, there you go. That's all the business part of what we do. And there is, I think, something, again, everybody will like. Lori Woods has agreed to continue as our Recruiting Secretary. Now, would anybody else like that job? Gee, I don't see a lot of hands going up. She seems good at it. [43:33] Speaker G (unidentified): Very good at it. [43:36] Joyce Bagshi: So, Lori Woods will continue on as our secretary. Now, as I am the outgoing vice chairman, we need to elect a chairman and a vice chairman. So, this is open now to nominations. [43:55] Lori Woods: I would move Joyce as chair. As chair. I agree. [44:05] Joyce Bagshi: Anybody else like to be chaired? Want to throw their hat in the ring? All in favor? Do I [44:23] Ronald Warhouse: have a vote on this? Yes. Or would you vote? I'm the ultimate. [44:34] Lori Woods: Oh, gotcha. Sorry, I wasn't sure who was the alternate. I apologize. [44:37] Arthur Kelly: I am the ultimate. We're both alternates. You are as well? [44:41] Joyce Bagshi: Okay, that's what they hope for this. [44:43] Lori Woods: I didn't know who was alternates. [44:47] Arthur Kelly: We're both alternates. Oh, it's four. Okay. [44:54] Joyce Bagshi: We need a vice chairman. Nominate Marguerite. I accept. I'll second that. Okay. Do we have any other nominations for vice chair? Lee? [45:14] Speaker D (unidentified): Joe? No. If you'd like me, I'm the vice chair. Mm-hmm. [45:24] Joyce Bagshi: By the means. Well, that's the nomination. [45:27] Speaker D (unidentified): We have a vote. We have a nomination. Lee? Yeah. Vote. [45:43] Joyce Bagshi: Now we should vote. Vote. Do you want us to do a play paper or can we just pretend? Oh, I don't care. We'll just pretend. So, Marguerite, how many votes? Lee, how many votes? [46:10] Lori Woods: Congratulations. Congratulations, Marguerite. So, Marguerite's out. Marguerite's out. Marguerite, thank you. [46:17] Speaker D (unidentified): Thank you. I was available if necessary. Wonderful. Congratulations. [46:26] Joyce Bagshi: So that takes care of that business. And now we go back to that warrant we have. [46:50] Speaker H (unidentified): Which is, the committee going to be voting on these warrant articles prior to a public hearing or not? [47:05] Ronald Warhouse: We just got the warrant, so how can we possibly vote on it? We're supposed to have at least five days. [47:11] Speaker H (unidentified): Except, excuse me. They just also talked about an exception. [47:14] Joyce Bagshi: Yes, there is an exception. [47:16] Ronald Warhouse: I understand that exception. [47:18] Joyce Bagshi: And we do feel this, I think anybody finds this to be an exception. Extraordinary. An extraordinary exception. Due to its safety. And we're not, yeah, well, that's one of them. Into the safety issue. At the transfer station. I always catch myself on that because I always call it the time. Yeah, I know. I'm sorry. But as far as the other one, you bring up a very good question because we need five days after whenever we're going to vote to vote. [48:08] Lori Woods: Unless we're in a six-year marriage. [48:10] Joyce Bagshi: Unless we're in an extraordinary situation. [48:13] Ronald Warhouse: Well, the purchase of the land is not an extraordinary situation. Not in my opinion. Do I support the purchase? Absolutely. Do I think it's a good idea? Absolutely. We're not going to get forest and the land in the town of Afton for that price. However, it's not an emergency. Is the transfer station something that needs to be taken care of? Without a doubt. [48:40] Joyce Bagshi: Do you have anything you can add that would... [48:43] Speaker H (unidentified): Well, the reason I asked the question is that I came up with some questions I had about the property that I would reserve for a public hearing if this committee is going to vote after the public hearing because I don't want to duplicate you having to listen to it twice. Or if you're even going to entertain what somebody from the public has to say tonight. And then aside from that I just wanted to say a few brief words about procedure without comments about any particular warrant or anything. So I will do as you please but I would suggest that if you're going to wait until there's a public hearing that I would just say my comments specific to the warrant for the public hearing. [49:38] Joseph Romer: Can I ask you a question? Do we have to wait until after the public hearing for us to vote? Is that the procedure? [49:53] Joyce Bagshi: That's what I'm going to look up right now. [49:55] Lori Woods: Does this need to be voted on prior to that? I don't know. [49:59] Joseph Romer: I also think it would be helpful if Bernie's observations were written out and presented, and we could read them out and then read them out again. Public comments are not really shown in proper time. I think that's really important. You know, I mean, whether you're for this land or against it, that's – as a taxpayer, that's your right as a democratic – that's your right. [50:39] Lori Woods: You had something on the 21st? [50:42] Joyce Bagshi: It says – well, that's the – the public meeting is the 28th. I thought they were talking about possibly doing – The public hearing in the next two weeks, which means – [50:53] Joseph Romer: It's on the 21st. [50:54] Lori Woods: The 21st. That's what they said last night, right? That's what I thought. So that's the hearing? That's the public... [50:59] Joyce Bagshi: No, that's... No. Good. Okay. It may be the public hearing. In the next two weeks. [51:06] Lori Woods: And the vote is the 28th. [51:07] Joyce Bagshi: And the vote is the 28th. Yeah. That means we would have to vote on the 21st or some day, you know... [51:19] Lori Woods: Like what day is the 21st? A Thursday? No, we're on... A Wednesday. A Wednesday. So we can meet the next day, the 22nd or the 23rd, and vote then. [51:31] Speaker D (unidentified): You bring up a great point. And the urgency is the desirability of that site. And from what we've been hearing is that there may be other suitors for that property. And I think the best solution is to have a public hearing and then have a meeting the day after and vote it at that point and hear all the comments from the public. I agree with that. But there is a sense of urgency on this. Right. [52:04] Arthur Kelly: So where the Warren Finance Committee is an advisory body only, how does that affect it? [52:11] Ronald Warhouse: It doesn't affect us at all. [52:13] Joyce Bagshi: It doesn't affect it at all. [52:14] Ronald Warhouse: Number one, what everybody on the Warren Finance Committee needs to remember,, we only make a recommendation. They do not have to follow our recommendation whatsoever. Correct. Okay? Totally advisory. [52:31] Joyce Bagshi: Always remembering, though, we get to stand up at a meeting and give our reasons. [52:39] Ronald Warhouse: Absolutely. Or not give your reasons. Or not. [52:41] Joyce Bagshi: But we can stand up and say, oh, my, no, we don't want another storage facility here. You know, we've done enough. You know, we don't need a trampoline center. I mean, we can give our, but thank you. Very good. [53:03] Speaker H (unidentified): You're welcome. So I will say everything that I have to say about the project. But if I may, I would just like to thank you for serving on the committee, because I know it's not always easy. And also, I just want to encourage members, if I may, to feel free to disagree, both with the select board and within the committee. But disagreement doesn't mean dissension, and explaining your reasons for voting a certain way doesn't mean you have to justify them. But from my observations as a public citizen in the past, I have felt that there seems to be a tendency to want to have this board be in uniformity with the select board so that people don't perceive or even feel that the boards aren't getting along or when votes are taken within the board sometimes it feels to me that there's a desire for it to be a unanimous vote and I think for an advisory committee if there is disagreement within the committee or with the select board it goes to it serves the public better if you if you disagree not for the sake of disagreeing but if you disagree you give the reason why then that educates the public it raises something that maybe they didn't see or think about where if it's just we all agree on this so please vote for it I don't think that benefits the public so I just want to encourage you to speak your mind to feel free to be the lone wolf if it requires that again you don't have to justify it but if you explain it I think you're doing a tremendous public service and that's all I want to say about process excellent thank you okay Thank you for that. [55:19] Speaker D (unidentified): Good night. You got my attention up on your comments about the property, though. Well, no, we'll hear it on the public hearing next. Stay tuned. [55:34] Joyce Bagshi: All right, so is there any discussion, however, on this? We can discuss it now, but we'll save our vote for the 22nd. No, 20th. Oh, yeah, 20th. Yes. For the 22nd. So I will arrange tonight for the 22nd. 6 p.m. again? 6 p.m. I will not leave my agenda at home. I thank you for bearing with me over that. I was sort of fighting with my laptop and my printer, and I determined it wasn't going to win, and it didn't. And I was so flustered, I left the house without them. We've all been there. Yeah. So, but anyway, is there any discussion on Article 2 to see if the town will vote to appropriate $199,000 from the unassigned fund balance for the purchase of land located at Map 229, Law 052? [56:51] Lori Woods: My only question is that I know they will not purchase the property without a clean assessment report. Correct. But will we have that Clean Assessment Report prior to the 21st? [57:07] Ronald Warhouse: Supposedly, they said a week or two weeks. [57:11] Joyce Bagshi: Okay, we should add that. [57:13] Joseph Romer: That was part of it. [57:14] Lori Woods: That was why the meeting is this morning. Okay. [57:17] Joyce Bagshi: Tom even said, I believe he said that we would have it then. [57:22] Joseph Romer: Yeah, it's a local company. [Lori Woods: Yes, it is.] So they go back through the deeds and whatever it takes. Yeah. [57:30] Speaker D (unidentified): Do we know what we have in the unassigned fund balance? [57:34] Ronald Warhouse: Yes, we do, but I'm not going to tell you. [Joyce Bagshi: Oh, no,, no,.] What? No,, no. Don't tell me what I have to do, woman. [57:43] Joyce Bagshi: No,, I mean what you have to do is a little more. [57:48] Ronald Warhouse: I can look it up. I haven't read it. It's here. [57:51] Joyce Bagshi: You have it right here, I know. In the unassigned fund balance. [57:58] Joseph Romer: I'll look it up. I have it at home on the paper. [58:00] Joyce Bagshi: Yeah, I was going to say I've got it in here somewhere, too. Don't worry about it. [58:05] Ronald Warhouse: These are online? Oh, no. I have it in my... Oh, no, it's broken down. [58:10] Joyce Bagshi: We have it in our paperwork from last year's project. Paperwork from last year? From last year's. Yeah,. I just didn't... Okay. Anything other than that anybody would care to... I mean, when you look at this map, I mean, I can think of 100 uses for it, but... Oh, yeah. I mean... Oh, yeah. Our opinions are wonderful. There's that pond, Joe, is that a clear pond, or is it a... [58:42] Joseph Romer: It's a crease. When the glacier came through across Sandpage Road, it's like a marsh. It was actually a spring, and it goes behind the Gallagher's house, behind Maryfield's house, Gallagher's house, and it severely drops off. This is a piece of land. This is actually a mound. It's been sheared off, and when they put it in, that's why there's a problem with the elevation coming out. If you put the building in, then whatever. So if you walk out the building, you see how it, and then it drops off. And then if you go to behind her property, it drops off severely. So this land actually is almost like a funnel. It goes down to this wet land. years ago my kids used to they used to catch goldfish these are goldfish [59:39] Joyce Bagshi: and they used to [59:41] Joseph Romer: bring them home and try and cook them and stuff I'm only four years old anyhow but it's a nice piece of property it needs to be cleaned up bush hog and gone in and just make some path and walk around, and then eventually you could thin out some of the timber in there, because there's a lot of big timber there. And make it a place that you can make [1:00:12] Lori Woods: it. Could you put a path around the pond? [1:00:15] Joseph Romer: Yeah, you could put the pond in. You could put, you know, like a rain garden, you know, like this is on plant perennials. There's plenty of qualified people in the town. Yeah, like Karen McManus goes to Beautiful Garden in Minnesota. There's plenty of people. But the problem is you can't smother these people and insult them. You have to create a... When they come into this environment and say, Wow, that's what you used to... Come scout to the... It was a community, you know? And now a converted mother. And so you have a space that can be utilized in different classes and have the future of venture. Eventually, sometime, they don't want to spend the money, but they're going to have to look. They should look at the new building over at Shafley there, the community center. I think Milton built a new one. I think Cornish built a brand-new state-of-the-art. That's coming. It's coming to action. Oh, it is. It's like, you know, it's just... Well, that wall is indicative of what's happening. [1:01:41] Joyce Bagshi: Good point. Very good point. [1:01:42] Joseph Romer: That's what's always happening. And so, and if you say something, we're going to save money. We did save money, but now we're spending it. So, and it's a matter of opinion, too. But this has potential. I think if you clean it up, get it mowed down. The other thing, too, it's interesting that people didn't realize, but when they built that dog center down there, they interrupted a major wildlife, I mean, I'm talking a major wildlife corridor that ran parallel to 109. It was amazing. It was probably 15, 18 feet wide just straight. You could see it. And so what I see, I think they come from Kelly's Orchard, and they cross into that corner, and then they go down into the water and get water. And then they meet under there. They go into our fields. They go into alongside of our land, and they go. When we see them coming, they go. But we don't know exactly whether they cross this property. So this property has a great natural attraction for wildlife, and we think we have a wild cat in our neighborhood too, some chickens missing. So I have a question for you. [1:03:04] Speaker D (unidentified): How far does the ledge go out across that property, and would it have a negative… You said it's a mountain, so I assume… [1:03:13] Joseph Romer: This is the ledge right here. And this is a mountain that gets sheared off of the glacier and it drops off. [1:03:19] Speaker D (unidentified): I know the church is on ledge too. [1:03:21] Joseph Romer: The church is on ledge, yeah. [1:03:22] Speaker D (unidentified): So how far is that ledge? [1:03:24] Joseph Romer: God knows. I know if you go to my neighbor's back building, you can see it. You can see the ledge that's there, and you can see big, wide scrape marks where the ice scraped the ice. It scraped the ledge like a mark. Unbelievable. [1:03:41] Speaker D (unidentified): Do you see any issues that would prevent that corner lot from being developed? [1:03:50] Joseph Romer: Not with dynamite. If you have lead, you can... [1:03:55] Lori Woods: Or dynamite, yeah. [1:03:57] Speaker D (unidentified): Or build up around it. [1:03:58] Joseph Romer: Well, yeah, that's no problem. That's not a problem. You know, that's what I'm saying. It should be cleaned up. We get in there, walk around, and then you get 20 different people. We've got to have 20 different things we should do. We shouldn't do anything, you know, we should put, you know, something should be done as a community focusing and the decision should be. [1:04:36] Ronald Warhouse: From what I understand, the person who owns the property has agreed to wait until town meeting has taken place and the vote has been done as far as whether or not the town wants to buy that. [1:04:54] Joyce Bagshi: Yes. They've stated that. [1:04:59] Lori Woods: So they're giving us like a first right of refusal type of thing? [1:05:02] Ronald Warhouse: I believe so, yes. I don't know if it's necessarily a first right of refusal. Right,. Chances are there's been some interest, you know, other than the towns. [1:05:14] Speaker G (unidentified): Well, it makes a great difference. I mean, look what's happening down at Irontails. [1:05:19] Joseph Romer: I don't know if you've seen the excavator they're putting in for the entrance. If you look at that entrance and look across the street and see the fairgrounds, then look up the street and look down the street and envision those trucks coming down the road and people going in and dunking donuts in and out all day long. It's going to be a major cluster. I don't care who, where, what, anybody's got to say. And that entrance never should have been allowed on 109. It should have been on Mill Road. [1:05:46] Ronald Warhouse: I think there's going to be one on both roads, Gerald. [1:05:51] Speaker I (unidentified): I would imagine. I don't know that for sure. [1:05:52] Joseph Romer: Oh, there's going to be one on both roads. But I'm talking about going, stopping going in on 109 and coming out on 109. People coming out of the fairgrounds and the whole, just you know, the whole area's gone from a small farm town now to become like a cyber suburb of Santa. [1:06:18] Joyce Bagshi: Anyone else with any comments about it? [1:06:21] Ronald Warhouse: I the only thing that I don't want to see, to be quite honest with you, because this town has really, the town really doesn't have any business per se being the land business. We have numerous pieces of property within the town that the town owns, the 30 some odd acres down on the H road. I don't know how much the town owns. [1:06:49] Joyce Bagshi: On the he will I will but I think it's quite substantial. I would not be too [1:07:06] Ronald Warhouse: supportive of buying that a lot and sitting on it for 10 or 20 years. No, [1:07:12] Joseph Romer: no, but it would be good to sell. Somebody's is it a good, is it a good deal? [1:07:17] Ronald Warhouse: Yes, it's an excellent deal. Okay, and I feel if we were actually going to do something with it in the somewhat near future, my support would be there, no problem. I'm not saying go out and build a new building over there just because we can, but I also don't want to see us sit on it and let it become part of a land bank. That's not what this town should be. [1:07:43] Joyce Bagshi: Yeah, I think, looking forward, my, looking forward, say five to ten years, all right? This building is not going to do us anymore. [1:08:01] Ronald Warhouse: Fifteen years. You're never going to get rid of this building. No,, no. Now let me finish. [1:08:05] Arthur Kelly: Let me finish. It has historic… Nothing. [1:08:09] Joyce Bagshi: Those town offices are nothing. [1:08:11] Ronald Warhouse: Well, if you do away with those town offices, you have to have somewhere to go. [1:08:17] Joyce Bagshi: Roland, you and I are going to have to talk things out. [1:08:21] Ronald Warhouse: You and I are going to butt heads a lot. [1:08:22] Joyce Bagshi: No, we're not. You're just going to let me finish. That's it. Without interrupting. I can see down the road that yes, we might need municipal building where the town's business center would be somewhere else. Do we know if it could be here if we own that land? We don't, but I can see that is not going to do us. I mean, look at what's coming into town. Look at the business. Our population is growing. Look how many new kids we've got in school this year. [Lori Woods: 37 new kids?] New kids, yes. Yes. New teachers were necessary. Okay. The town is growing. I don't, frankly, I don't want to see this. I'd like to, when I move to town, be able to drive to Sanford in 15 minutes because I was the only person on the road. And you were speeding. Rollin, you're interrupting. I'm sorry. [1:09:23] Ronald Warhouse: Okay. You're not going to shut me up, Joyce. You ought to know that by now. [1:09:30] Joyce Bagshi: Easy. I'm still talking. Go ahead. All right. So I can see ahead where that has great value to us. Now, if there was land over here, I would say that we could have a town center. That's not where we are right now. We're preparing for it. And if anybody thinks 10 or 20 years is a long way off, it's not. [1:09:54] Joseph Romer: We already have a town center. We have a fire department across the street and that other building, which I don't know what part of the scribe is there possibly there. So with that piece of property, this piece of property and this piece of property, you're centered in one area. Yes. You've got any major anywhere. Right. Maintaining municipal buildings is a big thing. [1:10:19] Ronald Warhouse: It's a big thing. It's a big expense. Right. [1:10:22] Joseph Romer: And especially with the ever-changing society we live in. So it's changing. So having these, prepare for whatever comes. Thank you, Tony. It'd be nice to have a big, a good-sized building. The metal building would be the cheapest. The people would say, hey, look at the library. You can have the, I think it's Portsmouth Library. It's a work of art, and acting at some point will be here. [1:11:27] Joyce Bagshi: Business offices like that doesn't mean these are thrown away this stays what it is. [Joseph Romer: It's not adequate.] It stays what it is. [1:11:39] Joseph Romer: But you know it's a nice little building yeah exactly. [1:11:46] Joyce Bagshi: But well I think we've probably beaten that to death but I will say henceforth because I'm not going to argue. Please everybody, when someone is talking, let them say what they want to say without interruption. Because we all have that right. And whether you think we're going to have, we're going to butt heads. We're not going to butt heads. We're going to work together. And we're going to respect each other without corruptions because we won't get by that way. On Article 3 then, that's the transfer station. That's [1:12:43] Lori Woods: Emergent. That's got to be done. [1:12:45] Joyce Bagshi: There you go. Safety first, kids. Excuse me? Safety first. Safety first, absolutely. [1:12:58] Joseph Romer: Margarita, she would have been done many months ago. I mean, you saw the pictures. This [1:13:07] Joyce Bagshi: Is the time in the meeting that we ask the most anticipated question. Can I have a motion to adjourn the meeting? [1:13:17] Joseph Romer: Motion to adjourn the meeting. [1:13:19] Lori Woods: I second it. All in favor? Thank you, everybody. We're both alternates. [1:13:30] Speaker D (unidentified): Sorry? Who are the alternates? I don't know who's alternating. We're both alternates. [1:13:34] Arthur Kelly: They're the alternates. Okay, got it. Is there somebody that wasn't here tonight? Yes. Steve Reich. [1:13:39] Lori Woods: Steve Reich. Mike. Mike. That's how you pronounce his name. Okay. Yes. I met him at the meeting last night, correct? Yes. [1:13:46] Ronald Warhouse: Yes. Joe. [1:13:48] Joseph Romer: Mike or Buck? Mike. Mike. Okay. It looks like Buck, but it's Mike. It's the lady. [1:13:53] Lori Woods: Okay. That's what I thought. That's the way he says it. [1:13:58] Speaker H (unidentified): That's what matters. I'm not going to take Mike's [1:14:01] Joseph Romer: mispronunciation. I'm just going to ask a lot of questions. That's still one. [1:14:06] Speaker I (unidentified): That's still one. Is anybody else coming on? [1:14:10] Lori Woods: I think it's just a switch on the screen. [1:14:12] Joyce Bagshi: I lost my [Ronald Warhouse: Thanksgiving dinner.] Oh, that's terrible. [1:14:24] Ronald Warhouse: Yes, and [1:14:26] Lori Woods: it was a good menu. [1:14:29] Joyce Bagshi: What was the other name that I've seen at that table? [1:14:32] Ronald Warhouse: Right up here, there's a black switch on the top.