Union resiliency committee picks Haley Ward for multimodal study

[0:00] Chair: Productivity, but if people want to come, yeah, especially once we start going, get into this, and it's it's topic based, you know. So all right, we've got that light on. Can you remind me, am I the chair? You are the chair. I've never acted as such, but I will now. Yes, you are the chair. Let's officially convene our meeting of [0:20] Speaker B (unidentified): the Community Resilience Partnerships Committee to order at 6 o 5. I've [0:31] Chair: received any public comment. Is anybody on the well, have you well, not it's specific, just general interest, John. The one thing is I could remember, so we have changed minutes, our minutes are AI now, and so after each meeting I have to go through and look at them and edit them. So for us it's easy in a small format, but if we had other people use your names, we don't have to hear, it'll be easy for me to figure out, but yeah, okay, no comment, no comment, yep, okay. So then [1:07] Speaker B (unidentified): the third item is to review the multimodal transportation improvement proposals. Yes, so have we all had a chance to do that? Yes, I've looked at them basically. Yeah, well, I don't know if we need to go through it page by page [1:21] Chair: and study it now or just, yeah, I mean, I just for the record, I just, if I could, we closed accepting these on Thursday at four o'clock. And just for the camera's sake and the minutes, we received two proposals. We received one from Haley Ward and we received one from Sebago Technics. So those are the two that we'll be discussing this evening. I did create an informal kind of scoring form just for notes or, you know, if we want to be able to put things down there based on what we did for proposal. Very good. Yeah, for your conversation, so. [1:55] Speaker B (unidentified): Well, I'm not quite sure how to organize this review, except to say if we want to just take a few minutes and reflect on different aspects of each proposal and then discuss it, or just if we've studied it well enough to have an impression, I'd be happy to go either way. [2:15] Speaker C (unidentified): Is anyone familiar with Zbago Tech? I've [2:21] Speaker D (unidentified): worked with them in Daner Scott a little bit. They're still in the middle of the process, so I imagine that's why it's not included in here, but yeah, I've worked with them and they're, I mean, they're engineers. I see [2:35] Chair: they've been working with Rockland and st. George yeah it worked with them on some landscaping stuff again a big company so you have multiple people you know we're doing different things in mine was on the landscape and utility side of things we were doing some part of stuff yeah and they've been around since 1981 so they're I did call some of their references today and got you know good references the one thing I heard from a couple people and the same thing would be true for Haley Ward so this is not a knock on Sebago or a knock on Haley Ward but our experiences with this team you know and with Haley Ward right now we're working with Ben and Claudia you know and so it's not the same team and so a company you could love a company but who are you working with and does that they jive with you and are they on the same level I mean because even when we chatted with Dan before about other projects you know he mentioned some stories the last time that he didn't have good luck with Haley Ward you know just again different people different timelines how many projects you have and that's one thing that I'm saying this more from Michael for me to remember but one question I would like to ask in the future when we put out RFPs is during your proposed timelines how many other projects are they're working on. Like are we the priority during this time frame or am I juggling ten of these at the same time because I think we hit Ben and Claudia for example at the right time. We were, they're busy now but we were the focus at the beginning of that project so that goes a long way you know so I mean that's a question I'd love to ask both of them you know in the sense of yeah, what is your bandwidth during this time frame to take care of you? [4:24] Speaker B (unidentified): One impression I have, I'll just start out saying, it seems from the beginning it would be more efficient for us to stay with Haley Ward, since we already have a working relationship with them. And it looks like aspects of this intermodal process will have to do with resiliency as well. So if it was just one engineering firm doing both, it would probably be pretty integrated and smooth. Whereas if we had Civego coming to Intermodal, they'd have to be working with Haley Ward on some aspects of it. [4:56] Chair: Try to gather some of that, use their work from before. [4:58] Speaker B (unidentified): Yeah. Which I'm sure could work. Yeah. But it's a good point. Yeah. It's a good direction. That's my first impression of it. Just stay with Haley Ward. They're doing well by us. I like them and I feel well served. But then I read this is a big one and they're very comprehensive and they offer really specific suggestions about traffic calming. Interesting, I do narrowing the streets a little bit going to the Commons so it's just [5:24] Chair: psychologically slows traffic down. I did, they did a really good job of sharing some of their vision. Yeah. Well, that was one of my, yeah, one of my comments is that I agree. I think they shared a lot more of their vision of what it could look like and things they would target. I think they rest on the laurels a little bit with the relationship. Exactly. That's, I mean, that's just how I felt when I read it a little bit. That's my subjective impression. Yep. It's not going to sway me either way. Yeah. But I think that was, you know, that was a, you know, did anyone else have first impressions of kind of things? There was a little more meat [6:05] Speaker E (unidentified): meat on the bones on Sebago. [6:08] Speaker B (unidentified): Right. More specifics that I could understand. A little more meat. Yeah. The other was rather generic. Yeah. [6:15] Speaker E (unidentified): You know, the project. Yeah. I kind of got the same feeling. You know, you read Haley Ward and you go, well, we've worked with them. I like them. Yeah. We have a track record. Okay. So, yeah. But, you know, if I hadn't worked with them at all, these were two blank slates. One being a blank slate, one we have a relationship with, you know, with that of what I felt differently and I did, I did, there was more to this. They really seemed to and [6:50] Speaker B (unidentified): they came in under less budget. But that's a practical thing. [6:56] Speaker E (unidentified): Right. Not to come to the pizza. [Chair: Yes, exactly.] So you've had experience with Sebago techniques? [7:11] Speaker D (unidentified): Yeah, well, with both. [7:12] Speaker E (unidentified): With the particular people that are going to be leading the project? [7:15] Speaker D (unidentified): Less so with Sebago. Though I, there was a couple people that I recognized, but I couldn't say they were perfectly pleasant when I met them, but I couldn't say whether or not the whole project was, I think it would be shot in the hip. I have, what I do, I've known Ben, I know I've known for several years and I've worked alongside him and I've worked with Vanessa as well, and actually on this Freeport project that they referenced in here, which was a little while ago. So I've worked with them, and I think I had said to Todd earlier that, in my opinion, these are pretty. Usually there's like, if you get three or four, you're like, there's a clear someone who's like, no, we're not, this is not the right one. And there's usually two that are close, but like I usually kind of go one way or the other. I think these are, they're different, but I don't think you'd go wrong with either one. I think Sebago is more technical. I think Haley Ward is more, like I said, planar. I think they're more, do more kind of visioning and conceptual stuff. I think Sebago is, not that they wouldn't, but I just think they're engineers and are going to probably be more practical, which I don't know. [8:49] Speaker B (unidentified): Well, we do have a track record with Haley Ward, which counts for a lot. They do what they say they'll do, and they're impressive. [8:57] Speaker C (unidentified): The community outreach for Sebago, are they real strong in that aspect? That's going to be critical. That's really great. I think that's gonna be one of the biggest factors. [9:10] Speaker E (unidentified): Bigger than what we just experienced. [9:15] Speaker B (unidentified): Yes, there's. [9:18] Speaker C (unidentified): Gonna be right, you didn't need a lot more community. [9:21] Chair: involvement that's one of the comments when I called references for sub a go and that kind [9:25] Speaker B (unidentified): Of led me to my, well, they did have a group section on community engagement, but they have a similar step process meetings and public hearings that seemed fairly. [9:39] Speaker C (unidentified): Comfortable, yeah, I'm just wondering about the implementations of it, right, which one does a better job with the public, basically, because that's going to be critical, I think, for this project on the comment, so we're gonna have, you're. [9:55] Chair: Gonna, you're gonna have the soft skills to carry and navigate a room when it gets a little sideways? Can they reel the crowd back in? Can they not get their feelings hurt when someone tells them how they feel? [10:08] Speaker B (unidentified): We know that. We kind of know how Henry Ward does it. They're skillful. And Ben can explain things pretty clearly. [10:18] Chair: Yeah, I don't, Ben won't, when I read this, I didn't take Ben with the, no, Vanessa on this, if I remember. Like no, yeah, Claudia is kind of working with everybody doing project manager in the background, she and then, but I think it's gonna be Vanessa and. [10:39] Speaker B (unidentified): Sarah, so we don't know that you count on the same degree, well, that's what I'm. [10:46] Chair: Saying, in the sense of, but Ben did mention, and again just for conversation, Ben did mention Vanessa is the one that does a lot of their engagement stuff, yeah. [10:55] Speaker D (unidentified): And their outreach and other projects, so it means, yeah, no, I don't know. I know she is, and I think that the big difference between that outreach was Haley Ward, at least part of it, is the like their charrette process where they'll, they will be here for a day or two, I don't know, maybe more. I can't, I think it was as multiple days where they basically try to find like a storefront or somewhere they can post up and just be open to the public, and they just go, I mean, they'll kind of do some more structured events. [11:28] Speaker B (unidentified): That was Sebago who said that, right? [11:30] Speaker D (unidentified): No, that was Hazy. Oh, okay. But now, maybe I don't, I didn't see that in Sebago. I'm just, I'm familiar with how they. [11:38] Chair: Sebago had something similar to it. [11:39] Speaker B (unidentified): Yeah, they would just be available. It was, on what page is this? [11:44] Chair: Their outreach is on project, I'm sorry, page seven. [11:48] Speaker B (unidentified): Yeah. Public awareness campaign. Yeah. [11:51] Chair: Yeah, surveying, litigation planning, stakeholder interviews, roundtables, workshops. [12:02] Speaker B (unidentified): Yeah. You're gonna do the same survey. I think that's important. Yeah, focus group, roundtables, community workshops. So it sounds comparable. [12:17] Speaker D (unidentified): Yeah, well I think it's a different approach is that, at least the way they understand the shirts that Haley Ward does is it's more of an intensive, we go through it's over the three or four days whatever it is that they're here where and I'm sure there will be others, I mean, you see there's a kickoff meeting and this is the community charrette when you get later on draft plan the final plan. I think that they kind of condense a lot of it and not to say that it's it's more or less they put it together so that it's not okay we talked to you three months ago and now we're back talking about something that's you know one day later it keeps things a little bit closer together but at the same time one I think I think it just depends on your preference if you want to have that like the way that it's spread out that I would imagine most this is more traditional because I didn't see that they had a like we're gonna be here we're gonna be here for three full days right the first day is what are your problems and the next day is let's talk about some solutions this is what we came up with last night and the third day is you know it sounds very effective it's yeah so it's a good process it's connected because it's a [13:37] Chair: short time frame really it's quick it's five months really but once you get it [13:42] Speaker D (unidentified): Going, it's intense. And I mean, I know that, I know Vanessa is more than capable of doing it. I don't know, I'm not familiar with the rest of the team. I mentioned they're all, you know, again, more than capable. Can you explain the words to a rep like give me a look it up? So yeah, it's, it is very, I want to say it's like part of like the new urbanist approach, which is, it's like they're like new traditional, which I'm a big fan of. They like to go into a community and do a lot of like face-to-face engagement. There's a lot of like, I said, it's iterative kind of drawing. They'll, they'll come in with like some initial questions and want to have conversations, but they basically are open all day so that when you come in they can have, they can sit here and have a conversation with you, draw some stuff out, think about that, you know, do that with several people, digest it, and then the next day they kind of like, we'll roll it right over. It is more kind of slow motion workshop kind of. Yeah, exactly. And so they. Basically try and take what I would think would be some of the work that would happen behind the scenes if the traditional way is that you might have like one meeting a month for three months the topic. So. [15:02] Chair: You do a topic and that analyze and come back to the next one. Yeah, sure, right. Here's the Webster's. Oh great, yeah. An intense multidisciplinary workshop or decision makers, expert community stakeholders collaborate over a compressed time frame, at least one, from one day to several weeks, or two, you know, three to seven days, to develop a feasible detailed vision to design solutions. So really just like you said, yeah, like you said, yeah, it just, you do a topic, you hear about the next topic, and then they. Come back and tell you what they heard and here's potential solutions to it. So you're not solving a problem, hearing a problem, solving problem, and come back and ask in the next day. So it doesn't take long and you can, yeah, you can hear about, because how many times to when you do the one, I think a positive to a charrette is when you do one topic conversations, I may be ready to hop to section three of that topic and you know people are still trying to gather information in one. So sometimes you can. Hear more and may not miss what I say, because I don't come back on the third meeting of the month, three months later. So different. [16:04] Speaker E (unidentified): Approach, yes. This is, this would be different from what they did in the. [16:08] Speaker D (unidentified): Previous project, yes, I imagine, yes, you're for it, but yeah, I imagine the, you're probably familiar with like the, you do a workshop, there's anyone's like a two-hour workshop, and you might have stickers and saying, you know, put them on what picture you like, yeah, probably like whatever it is, there's not a lot of back and back and forth, like once you find out, okay, this is what that people like, then you move on, but with the charrette, it's like you don't, you don't do necessarily a lot of those dot Exercises, you might do it for a couple hours, what people come in, and before the end of the day, you've already basically processed that, digested it, and moved on to, oh well, now that we know the people like this, we can kind of narrow it down, and then narrow it down, so it doesn't, there are downsides, it doesn't leave a ton of time to like go back and do outside research or really process stuff, because it's all in three days, but it does give you like, you're in it for three days, so [17:03] Speaker B (unidentified): It sounds like Haley Ward probably does more of that in Sebago, I would imagine. [17:08] Speaker E (unidentified): That's what I would imagine when I read it, does factor in is the public who's interested committing to like two or three days of being involved in [17:16] Speaker D (unidentified): Something, that's a good question, that's the risk, right, you know, that's the risk. [17:21] Speaker C (unidentified): But I think it's going to draw a lot of interest by two or three days in a row. [Speaker E (unidentified): People have lights.] Yeah, but they're very focused on the common. [17:35] Speaker B (unidentified): Well, maybe not all the same people, just to give people a chance to come and hear. [17:39] Chair: Call it a gazebo. Not a bandstand. Right? [17:46] Speaker C (unidentified): You have everybody's attention right off the bat. True. [17:49] Speaker B (unidentified): Well, it seems like a slight difference between the two companies anyway. [17:55] Speaker C (unidentified): And with Haley Ward, I like Claudia. She follows through on everything and she never misses anything. I mean, she's very thorough. [18:06] Chair: That's one of my questions after hearing some of the comments from some of the references is, I know you get down on paper, but when we have a charrette or a meeting, who's going to be sitting at that table? You know what I mean, and then who's doing the follow-up, and who am I calling when I have a question? You know, when John says, hey, can you follow up on this, who's my outreach? Like, that's a, you know. That's huge. [18:31] Speaker D (unidentified): One thing from Haley Wards that kind of caught my attention was that the very last, the second last page, 37, it says, you know, Haley Wards slash sub-consultant. For the most part, it's like existing conditions assessment, 90%, 10%. But there are like at least final plan development was 50-50 and I don't know if that is that they are suggesting, but they do know that like when you look at their I didn't notice that. Just so that's where when we do like traffic and when I've done traffic engineering projects, like a lot of companies will bring in a traffic engineer because they're kind of specializing, but yeah, we're subcontracting that out. If you look, you know, it says like, Vanessa and Sarah and Ben and Claudia McHaley Ward, and then it says James Tassie and Dan Edwards, well, from James Tassie Consulting and Edwards Creative. So if it's like, if this is their team and that's who they're subbing it out to, like that, I don't think that's necessarily a problem. I'm like, yeah, we're working with these people, that's fine. But that, so that was my, that was kind of my one kind of, wait. Who's who's doing the you know tasks one two three and four and then it goes and maybe it's just that the final plan development is I know Dana's a very good writer and a thinker around this and so maybe you might be putting it in a nice package and making it you know approachable but that was that was just one thing that happened I mean that's a good question it looks like with [20:07] Speaker B (unidentified): There's basically seven people who would be working on that project. [20:11] Speaker E (unidentified): Yeah, and one of them is a traffic engineer. [Speaker F (unidentified): You know, when] you're working with an engineer. That's... I mean, you know, they can do that. The planner. It [20:38] Speaker D (unidentified): seems like Jeremy Pru would be the main contact for them. Yeah. [20:44] Chair: Yeah, he's the one that emailed the... I'm sure they're all qualified. Yeah, like I said, I don't think you can go wrong with either one. I think it's just a different lens you're looking through. You know I guess my question for you guys is there is there and you don't have to answer the first part of the question do we have a clear-cut firm that you're favoring or is there questions that are lingering that you'd like to get answered before you make a decision you know to be able to understand what and whether that's a list of questions I email them back and get back to you guys whether that's you've got the 13th peg there's a there's a night to meet and meet the people you don't only Put that in the proposal I think it's but [21:45] Speaker C (unidentified): That's a new decision it is I'm [21:50] Speaker B (unidentified): Trying to remember the first one first question you wanted to have them answer well when we sat down go ahead and ask them what's their bandwidth what their bandwidth is how many [21:59] Chair: Of the projects, how many of the project go on if so-and-so? What else is he or she in charge of right during this time frame, and how does it affect us? I mean, it would be [22:07] Speaker B (unidentified): helpful to know that. Yeah, we're aware of the list, but otherwise I think the [22:18] Speaker D (unidentified): hard thing is that they're both pretty good responses, so it's like we're in a great [22:23] Speaker F (unidentified): pit you have also. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, right, you have two very [22:28] Speaker C (unidentified): qualified proposals in front of you. Yeah, probably can't go wrong with everyone [22:33] Chair: one. The other question I kind of had was, yeah, you didn't know where the leads, but who are the leads, and then in your timeline, who's handling which task? Because again, the consultant piece, you know, on that end, yeah, Haley Ward is that just like you said, please explain that 55. Yeah, you know, what does that mean in the sense of are they, are they going to be attending all the other stuff so they see and hear what people say? Are they just taking the translation from the other staff, you know, and work in it at that point? You know, where are you going to be at those? Well, I still come back to [23:08] Speaker B (unidentified): the feeling that it would probably be more efficient and integrated if we just stayed [23:12] Chair: with Hailey Ward. I think that's a total positive. I mean, that's a, that's a check in this box for [23:18] Speaker B (unidentified): sure, and Keith suggested the same thing. He felt that his heart was with Hailey Ward. He said, [23:23] Chair: yeah, that was definitely, yeah, that conduit is a strong consideration. Yes, it is. [23:33] Speaker B (unidentified): No. That's one thing I can say. And I'm sure once they get more involved, their Haley Awards project projection will become more comprehensive. They'll be more specific about it. [23:48] Chair: Well, that's the one thing I did like about Ben's approach, and hopefully that's a firm approach, is that, you know, Ben came in with framework and then he twisted it and molded it to what we wanted after the first couple meetings with him, you know what I mean? So he evolved. Yeah, that's what I did like about that ideas as they came along, right? Yeah, because again we put things down on paper based on what we heard and heard and thought, and then all of a sudden it's like, oh shoot, we missed that or that's not important or whatever thought about, you know, somebody who's [24:17] Speaker B (unidentified): just leaving it open, you know, with this kind of generic project proposal without very close, without specifics, waiting for, you know, public input and seeing what people are really concerned [24:29] Chair: started about and then tailored the project to meet what the needs are. I mean, I think our, we, you know, the five tasks that we kind of broke out and they discussed the existing conditions, which is pretty standard, the community engagement learning that process, transportation and opportunities assessment analysis, concept development and improvement planning is what they talked about, and then the final concept. Because for myself and Michael and then more importantly with the select board, it's like how do we get something back that then we can meld into the comp plan? It's already, you know, a big part of that work, and then also I can take it and put it into the capital plan, you know, and then strategically when public works is looking at roads and sidewalks and D.O.T. is looking at projects, we have something to say, okay, hey, you know, D.O.T. is coming to do Common Road and in 2028, you know, we need to do, we want to get ahead of that and have sidewalk money available so they don't rip it up and put it back down. You're like, but this gives you direction when you do something like this, you know, or if properties become available on the common area and it makes sense to fix one of these solutions, you know, widening the road, changing the angle of the road, you know, making the common bigger in certain areas and moving direction another way. Like those are things that both these firms will be able to share you on, traffic patterns and pedestrian patterns, right? So yeah, so where do, where do we [25:57] Speaker E (unidentified): see the focus? Maybe focus isn't the right word. I mean, is the focus, emphasis on automobile transportation, how do automobiles engage this whole area in a safer manner, or is it how do bicycles and pedestrians navigate this area in a safer, more efficient manner? [26:22] Speaker B (unidentified): That seems more the gist of this, but they both have, which one is, I think [26:27] Chair: co-op, you know, I can't think of, I can't say the word, but they need to habitat the same space, because you know, in this section it may be about a vehicle change, but the vehicle change will protect a pedestrian, you know, I mean, and then this part over here may be just about moving pedestrians, keeping them out of the way of vehicles, you know, still done, you know, so did you get a sense, or did anybody get a sense from [26:51] Speaker E (unidentified): Looking at the two proposals, whether one may be more automobile based and the other one might be more pedestrian based, pedestrian bicycle based, I think the Sevegos seem more towards pedestrian bicycle, making it more severe even though Haley Ward is going to employ a bicycle consultant. They've got a traffic and transportation engineer on their staff. That says automobile to me, but I don't know if that's true. But their only transportation slash expert is a consultant, James Tassie, and his expertise is in bicycles and bike paths and bike trails. Now is that where our emphasis is going to be? I know it's going to be very important to some people, and maybe a lot of people. So is that something that is not going to be focused on? [27:53] Speaker B (unidentified): I think it can't be all one and not the other. [27:55] Speaker E (unidentified): Well yeah, so that's kind of why I just throw in the question out there. [27:58] Chair: No, it's a good thought in the sense of what? [28:01] Speaker E (unidentified): You know, where are you coming from as you're, you know, where are you coming from? Are you coming from the automobile end or are you coming from the other end over here that, you know, pedestrian, bicycle? Yeah. I mean, they all tie together, obviously. Yeah. I mean, they all. [28:15] Chair: For instance, if you're making it bicycle friendly, you're making it, you're slowing down traffic. Right. You're doing things accordingly through design standards. Exactly. To make the traffic move slow, which is, you know, which is a result of each other, one or the other, if you will. So yes, you know, again my heartache right now is that if I had closed my eyes and we weren't working with Haley Ward, I'm just gonna say it, I'm leaning, I would [28:41] Speaker F (unidentified): pick them just based on the submission, just based off the submission if this [28:45] Chair: was a brand new starting just because they went right down to beginning, yeah, we didn't have the bias, you know, I mean, if we didn't have a working relationship and John's point I think has a lot of value in the sense of, you know, the continuity and keeping that, you know, those things connected, but if we were starting fresh and what was it about that, it was there, everything they just didn't say we're going to do this, they named roads and talked about, you know, we could do bump outs here or do a transition area, I mean, they gave you some examples of how they would tackle it so you could almost see what they were talking about, it awards was just we're going to do this, they were maybe [29:24] Speaker D (unidentified): Maybe we're thinking about possible solutions already. Yeah, Haley, work so we'll think about it. Yeah, that's what I got there, right? Yeah, we'll get the [29:31] Speaker E (unidentified): immediate. I mean, so Baker was a little less specific about their community engagement. Yes, they begin tasks to submit community engagement plan late December, but they have a way to December to find out what the plan is, but they [29:46] Chair: have I thought they wrote it up pretty well in there. Well, but is that people [29:51] Speaker C (unidentified): comfortable with that. But Steve, if you go by the numbers, the dollar amounts, Sebago is putting less emphasis on that because they're using less dollars for that. Oh, I see what you're saying, yeah. And I'm the same with the analysis. Haley Ward is, Haley Ward is 37 and Sebago is 40. They didn't shortchange you? I was just going by. Yeah,. [30:44] Speaker D (unidentified): Which is, that's probably the short end. It's probably the difference. [30:53] Speaker E (unidentified): So the question is, that 140, because [31:00] Speaker D (unidentified): it's not apples to apples, to my point. It's too different. I mean, you're right, there's more hours though. [31:05] Speaker E (unidentified): You know, is it 84 hours? How many folks are going to be able to attend, given the hours that they're proposing to do the community engagement? That's my concern. 140 hours. I mean, we did, you know, John and I did a couple of community engagement events in the last project, and we were basically hanging out. You know, it was just us, but because it was at a time that just wasn't attractive. [31:37] Speaker B (unidentified): Right. But this is such a different subject, I'm sure. Totally different. [31:42] Chair: Totally different. Everyone can relate to this. So I think everybody lives on these streets are going to be interested. I think everybody that you know the businesses, I think the people that you visit and want more walking, and I think we're gonna see common is the heart and soul of the town questions. They feel a little more thoughtful kind of where you guys want [32:02] Speaker E (unidentified): to land. What do we always say? Go to at least give them an interview, give them a chance to wow us. Well, [32:11] Speaker B (unidentified): I'm sure, I'm sure. No more press, just throwing it out there. Yeah, but I still keep wondering if we did go with Sevego, if it would be difficult for them to collaborate on parts of this project, which I guess they would have to do at some point, just reading how they keep talking about having to fold in with a resiliency plan that's already in place and work with [32:32] Chair: Drainage issues, but I think that again, if I'm not an engineer and I'm not a planner, but I can, anybody that drives up there, the resiliency here is where is the stormwater going, how are we preventing it from getting it, and then we're, how we managing so it doesn't go into people's homes. It's not like we're trying to solve fire danger up there, it's not like we're dealing with drought because a lot of it has public water, private water, public water, excuse me. So what is our resiliency concerned? Whether that's a positive on one or a negative, you know, yeah, what is that? I guess they just have a niggling thought that it [33:11] Speaker B (unidentified): It would be more efficient if one company was doing... [33:13] Chair: Oh, I agree. It would definitely be that. But I'm not sure if that's realistic. I think it's realistic if it's a major factor in the project. And that's what I want somebody to, you know... [33:26] Speaker D (unidentified): Like, if you were getting the same people and you were just, you know, it was basically an extension of the original project and you had the same people, then definitely would be some efficiencies. These, there's definitely with Haley board, there's, you do have a benefit of probably like inside, internally they can talk to each other if they have questions and they've got whatever data they've already come up with and all of that, but the four people that have not worked on this before, I don't, I don't think any of the four of them are working, they're gonna have to get up to speed on it just like anybody from Spago would too, so it's not, it's not that, it's that, it's, it's irrelevant, but when you Have totally new people, I think kind of to your point where it's like same company, but when it's totally new people that may be in a totally new project and you know, and in some ways it's because I'm sure that the final report from Haley Ward is going to be very good, it's like Sabego can probably take that report and be like, great, we've got a lot of good [34:27] Speaker E (unidentified): Stuff, because they made a really good report, it'll be done, yeah, mid-November, it's going to the select [34:33] Speaker D (unidentified): Yeah, which, you know, not to say that there is no benefit or that, you know, the familiarity and understanding, you can see, you already know what Haley Ward can do, so if they were coming in less, you'd very easily be able to say, wait,, wait, we were, we got the gold trim on this one, we're not getting the gold trim on this one, what's going on, you know, so. [34:57] Chair: Yep. I didn't see. I had asked because Tracy's traveling. I wanted to know if she had a chance. She's only on her cell. She doesn't have a great reading documents. Because she picks up on a lot of the little details. [35:21] Speaker B (unidentified): Yeah, I missed the input of our other two members. [35:23] Speaker F (unidentified): Yeah, I [35:33] Chair: mean, I guess if you were coming down to a coin flip, I guess I would always lean towards the horse, you know, and got you there, you know what I mean. I was just trying to say are there other things in the other proposal, Haley's proposal that you're like, where is this? And they're showing you this, like... [35:55] Speaker C (unidentified): I mean, they're very, similar, honestly. I mean, basically, it comes down to, you know, [36:07] Speaker D (unidentified): basically... It's like a Coke and Pepsi issue. I know, like, maybe everybody likes Coke, but, you know, the point is, it's like you're sitting here discussing... [36:21] Speaker C (unidentified): Right, yeah. Real fine points that... Yeah. [36:25] Speaker B (unidentified): It's not like comparing apples to a small dog's head. It's apple's apple. Yeah,. very much right now right so but maybe we should try something new [36:36] Speaker E (unidentified): no i don't know yeah my only concern is the charrette i'm not sure how that's going to fly [36:43] Speaker B (unidentified): here yeah it sounds like a great idea as i describe it but thinking of it in the right [36:48] Speaker E (unidentified): place right community right yeah i don't know i just you guys know the community better than i do [36:57] Speaker C (unidentified): I just think there's going to be quite a lot of interest. What? There's going to be a lot of interest. Yeah. Yeah. [37:03] Speaker B (unidentified): So the threat could be very high. [37:05] Speaker C (unidentified): So I think that's why I was leaving. I think it's going to be a lot more effective because of that. [37:13] Speaker B (unidentified): Yeah. Well, the town knew that these people were here to ask you questions and explain this for three days. I bet most everybody would have thought that. [37:21] Chair: Come speak your piece or don't speak it. Yeah. [37:23] Speaker C (unidentified): Yeah, and Haley Ward was very receptive to listening to everyone, what their views were. Yeah, I agree. [37:31] Speaker D (unidentified): And I would say with the Charette, I'm sure that you never know, I mean it is in February, you don't know, you never know if people are going to show up, but that this is not going to be Haley Ward's first Charette, and I'm sure they've done it and done it effectively plenty of times before and know kind of how to do it well. so I don't think you know if nobody shows up you know it would be unfortunate but that's the same with any public engagement I [38:00] Chair: think February is a good month because people are kind of homebound, and you know, we would definitely need to schedule a snow date, but it, but you're around, except the only people that are not around during that time are your seasonals, your snowbirds, you know, I mean, you know, that's, that's, I think that's the same schedule, they're not going to be here for either one, right, you know what i mean, and so i think that would be, whoever your selection is, i think that would be one of my requests is how do we have people that aren't there or people that are away share their comment [38:37] Speaker B (unidentified): well we do know keith's preference, yep, yeah [38:42] Speaker E (unidentified): his vote was for, so that's okay, had he been, had he been able to view the sabego, yes, i know he had some trouble, yeah, i wasn't able to get [38:52] Speaker B (unidentified): i'm sure he did, yeah, I wish we could know what Tracy thinks, but. Looking [39:04] Speaker C (unidentified): for a vote, John, or? [39:08] Speaker B (unidentified): Yeah, well, I guess we could get to that. Do we have more to discuss about it? [39:14] Speaker E (unidentified): Well, Todd's point as to whether, you know, how busy are they? Where are we going to be in the pecking order? [39:21] Speaker B (unidentified): That would be helpful to know. That would be helpful to know. [39:24] Speaker D (unidentified): You know, I ask that in the right way, because everybody will be, [39:29] Speaker F (unidentified): you'll be everybody's top priority if you ask them, yes, yeah, I mean, I guess we could [39:38] Chair: do a couple things, if you had a firm in favor, you could make a motion, me to bring that to the select board at their next meeting, but the motion could also include me to ask certain questions to either firm if necessary, you know what i mean, if you wanted me to come from a or from b, whoever was your choice, and you wanted me to call that firm and ask them questions to clarify certain things, and if i felt they were all positive, i could continue bringing them to the board, but if they threw up some red flags, then i would say we would need to reconvene and read, yeah, it sounds quirky, but the only, yeah, i mean, that's, that's, unless you have enough information to go that again, that's your, I am now thinking about an interview [40:33] Speaker B (unidentified): with both places, yeah, if we could have both of our other committee members spirit, let me get at least get the full contingent of our thoughts, but [40:46] Chair: you couldn't present anything to the next yet, yeah, we would have, we would be then going to the first meeting in November, which was, so that hold everything back [40:53] Speaker E (unidentified): because, well, the second meeting on October, I mean, I don't know how soon we [40:57] Chair: could interview them, well we put the 13th as a date, so they had October 13th [41:03] Speaker F (unidentified): In the in the RFP for the offer, we told them we hold it for an interview in case, in case we [41:09] Speaker D (unidentified): found ourselves in the situation. [41:12] Speaker E (unidentified): I'm sorry, the 13th is for an interview. Yes, we put that in the [41:16] Chair: RFP process, so if they applied and they knew we asked it that day, they would have [41:21] Speaker B (unidentified): mature. I know what questions you ask anyway, but it may be helpful to have. So that's a Tuesday, and I have [41:26] Speaker F (unidentified): a presentation, I have a pool and fun meeting that night, the 13th. Yeah, which I do too, which I may [41:33] Chair: end up having to shift upper. [41:36] Speaker B (unidentified): I don't insist on it. I'm just saying it might be a... Yeah, I get it. [41:39] Chair: Unless you have a clear cut, like I said, you guys only know. [41:45] Speaker B (unidentified): I guess I'm leaning towards Haley Ward. [41:48] Speaker C (unidentified): Now. I would go with Haley Ward in my vote. You think so? Yes. No, [42:00] Speaker B (unidentified): we don't, Keith. It goes that way. It goes three of us. It's done. Do you agree with Haley Ward? I'm fine with Haley Ward. Should [42:15] Speaker E (unidentified): vote on it? No, well, I'm thinking, okay, I don't have a serious, I mean, just, I'm not familiar with that charrette, and yep, that's not enough though, there's [42:29] Speaker B (unidentified): nothing outstanding for me to say no to one, yes to the others, just the idea of efficiency and working knowing that they will rise to the occasion when needed, or they have public input, we know they're good with the public, I think there's a lot of good reasons to know it. Consistency appeals to me too. Well, do we feel ready for a vote? [42:57] Speaker E (unidentified): I'm ready. Do we need a motion? Yes, we do. Do you want to make a motion? [43:01] Speaker C (unidentified): I motion to award it to Haley Ward. [43:06] Speaker B (unidentified): I'll second. Okay, moved and seconded. I guess we're ready for a vote. I'm in favor of including Haley Ward as our engineering contractor. [43:24] Chair: I will put that on the board agenda which will go out Thursday for, just put a ward like I did for the last one, I will reach out to the process I did last time is that I'll reach out to Haley Ward and let them know that they are the committee's choice pending board vote, and then I'll also reach out to Sabego and just say, you know, let them know how ambivalent we are about [44:07] Speaker C (unidentified): this decision. Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, I mean there was no disqualifications, oh yeah, like I said. [44:14] Chair: You could, you know, I don't like the term flip in a corner, but you could have chose both of these firms. I'm sure both of them would be excellent. And really, you guys are one I've heard are leaning on the present relationship and trying to keep that connectivity through. I think that's the biggest factor for me. Yep. I think it matters. Okay. How does the overall size of the two firms compare? Are they approximately the same? I don't know. I think. I remember the last project we [44:43] Speaker E (unidentified): selected Haley Warren in part because they were a little larger. They were than one guy in terms of resources, yeah. [44:49] Speaker B (unidentified): They're 100% employee owned, Sanego is, [44:52] Chair: which is interesting. And the award is about 300 employee owners. [44:56] Speaker E (unidentified): Yeah, and we're also employee owned up in Sanego Tech. [44:59] Speaker B (unidentified): I thought they were, maybe 130. [45:03] Chair: Yeah, about 130, so the award is twice the size. [45:06] Speaker B (unidentified): So again, it's the larger. Yeah. Well, and that may serve us, too. They have that much background. Well, I feel good with it. It would be cumbersome to have it. [45:26] Chair: Well, it's if you don't have legit questions or things you need to shake out. Yeah, I don't really. Well, the question then, John, next on your agenda there. Next steps. [45:47] Speaker B (unidentified): John just outlined the direct steps. [45:56] Chair: Yeah, so I'll make contact tomorrow with both firms and then I'll draft one. So that'll go to the So the date on the select board, go to their 5th, October 6th, select board meeting for approval. [46:18] Speaker B (unidentified): Okay. So then it will be cast in stone. [46:21] Chair: I think so, yeah, October, right? Am I right, Steve? The 6th, yeah. Okay. It's [46:29] Speaker D (unidentified): the 6th. Okay. That is what, sorry, what was this, October 6th? [46:34] Chair: It's the select board meeting. Okay. They got approval so I'll make their recommendation to the select board authorize the contract too. [46:45] Speaker E (unidentified): You would anticipate a kickoff meeting with Haley Ward on this project in early November-ish? [46:51] Chair: I would think so. What I'll do is try to reach out again when I call and then tomorrow speak with Vanessa and just say hey, you know, that's what [47:01] Speaker F (unidentified): it looks like. Yeah, so we'll wrap up the other one and move on to the next. [47:06] Speaker D (unidentified): Yeah, what is, does the this committee, community resilience, do they have, you have a look a regular time to meet monthly, or we don't a full time, no just a random. Okay, it's random. Yeah, I was asking because next up is, well, once we get through the select board is, you know, kickoff meeting, because which I like their approach is doing initial analysis from October to January and doing all that like research and stuff, but I imagine you'll all want to be with them and you want to make sure that, yeah, I guess that's a good question during [47:50] Chair: though we can pull Keith and I know key schedule changes a little probably more than most and Tracy's based off on her job, but is there a night of the week during the winter that's better than others for you guys? I know Thursdays [48:04] Speaker C (unidentified): are out because of it's county and wednesday for planning board. Yeah, on that. Yeah, that's [48:12] Chair: second wednesday, second. Yeah, second and fourth potential is the second and fourth. Yeah, it's like what for, but on those, on whether it's an odd week on a wednesday or a tuesday or another better nights of the week for you guys? [48:29] Speaker B (unidentified): Either of those will be fine. Thursday is an occasional conflict with troy county. Yeah. [48:34] Speaker E (unidentified): But that's just everything. It's Monday, sort of a bad night. [48:38] Chair: No, but I just want to be able to reach out with them and say, hey, I want to guide them to when we meet, not when they want to meet. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. To see what the timeframe is and try to get something on the regular. [48:51] Speaker B (unidentified): So is there any reason for us to meet before the kickoff then? [48:57] Chair: Let me get to that. Let's get it awarded. I'll call and kind of find out what their initial startup process for, do they want us to have an initial meeting to do a meet and greet with you guys, you know, kind of just give you the high level, you know, is there something they can send, like how do they do that for my [49:20] Speaker D (unidentified): guess would be they probably start with the kickoff. Yeah, it would be, that would be the meet and greet, but if there's anything that they want to share with us or that you want from them beforehand. And I [49:35] Speaker B (unidentified): don't think we did that before, just a kickoff. [49:38] Chair: The kickoff meeting, yeah, I think he set a timeline or something, you know, the documents ahead of time to be able to look at kind of what the discussion was. Yes. [49:48] Speaker E (unidentified): They may have a little more concrete stuff they want to sort of throw at us. Yeah. For this project, I don't know. [49:56] Speaker D (unidentified): With consultants, there are more meetings means more costs, which is not really our problem. But if you start doing too much, then it does start to affect quality. [50:08] Chair: Yeah, I didn't even mention that. Like we're wrapping up this and we're wrapping up that. And just even when we're paying the bills right now, based on the initial proposal, we're not over budget, but they've taken and shifted monies to different tasks based on how long it took or what we asked them to do. So they will be under budget or on budget, but it might have been 5,, 5,, and now it's 5, 7, 10, 2, 1. Based on how long certain things took and so there's the standard that number and deliver what we ask so yeah so [50:49] Speaker B (unidentified): Other business John well it was this yeah I would like to move that we try to track two more board members committee [50:58] Chair: Members rather so propose or ask the select board to consider adding two alternates yes alternate committee members do you need a motion for that can i you make a motion we can have a session that's a good call if somebody makes a motion to add that then we then we can have discussion oh yeah i thought i was making a motion so somebody's seconding [51:26] Speaker C (unidentified): Them on the chair usually oh good point yeah you're right all right i'll make that motion and then you add two alternates to that board. [51:35] Speaker E (unidentified): So alternates or actual members? [51:42] Chair: If you're looking over at me, I like alternates. Alternates, okay. I mean, just because of the point that Michael made that you're still, it gives you two more for a quorum and you take action. [51:52] Speaker E (unidentified): So the alternate would be, okay, so someone knows they can't be here. [51:57] Chair: Well, an alternate is allowed to be at every meeting, be part of the conversation, and they can speak and say anything they want, but when it came to a vote they wouldn't vote but when you're absent samantha is the first alternate she would take your space and she's then authorized to vote and keep the quorum going so it's a nice way that's but you're also training the trainer if you will so if all of a sudden somebody comes off then i always like to say okay we're going to re we're going to Open the seat but i would like to appoint samantha nominate samantha to be the fifth voting member and fill the alternate seat you know so that way you're always bringing somebody on board and they're committed they're learning they're they're part of it they're up to speed when they arrive and a good committee the alternate the voice is just as important as everybody else and just right mm-hmm [52:46] Speaker E (unidentified): So there would be two alternates, a first alternate, a second alternate. You [52:50] Chair: distinguish who's who that way. They're not sort of fighting out of meetings [52:54] Speaker F (unidentified): who gets to raise their hand. Yeah, and it doesn't make getting, doesn't make quorum any more difficult to, right? You actually makes it easier. I'll second the motion to add. [53:06] Chair: So Steve is the second to consider that the select board to consider adding two alternates [Speaker E (unidentified): to the] department in a second. Any more conversation, any questions or comments? Ready to vote? All in favor of that motion? So I have a question for further action for this committee. I don't believe I've ever seen a formal charge for this committee. I don't believe it either. And so what I've done, and not that Michael and I want more work to do, but I will for your next meeting, I'd, I'd recommend and I'll say the same thing, this like for drafting a, because again, this committee was formed for a task and now the tasks have become tasks and I see the value of keeping this committee going, but I'd like to, you know, do a charge like I've done for rec and green space and all of them, cemetery. Here's the, here's the committee make up, here's the mission, here's how the, when the committee meets, how, you know, those type of things, and we can work through that. It was some framework. Yeah, but it won't stop me from being able to ask the question next meeting to have that vote to add to alternates, and then I could say then I'll bring the charge and that'll already be an official part of the charge because they've already made that motion and we can start accepting statements of interest, but get something going, because then when someone asks what do we do, you know what do we do, we're doing a walk. So the select board would have to approve the charge or just the note the select board. So what I would do is that next meeting I'd bring this motion request to them to add two more alternates and but part of that I would explain to the psych board is that you know if you vote on this as evening based on the request of the this committee, I would then start drafting a formal charge because we see this committee being a state. Do you agree, would you like me to draft a charge, becoming more of a standing committee, and then I would work with you to finalize the draft for your charge because you know, and then bring back to the board like we've done and say okay, here's the, here's the final draft, do you agree, disagree? Yeah, they can always change it, but it should be coming from [55:25] Speaker B (unidentified): You guys just make it clear that we can never leave the committee, yeah, this is [55:29] Chair: sort of, it's gonna be like Yellowstone, you're gonna get a big car, I'll bring [55:35] Speaker F (unidentified): it on your chest, it's a lifetime now, yeah, just kidding, yes, but yes [55:43] Chair: like it, I will mention [55:46] Speaker B (unidentified): thanks for thinking of that, yeah, you make so many, what do you think's happened? [55:51] Chair: It was good for you guys. In the future, if somebody asks, what do we do? Here you go. Yeah. Right on the website. Members, blah,, blah. [56:00] Speaker B (unidentified): Does any other business arise? Questions, answers? No. Motion to adjourn. Second. I'll move that we adjourn. All in favor? Here we go. Yeah. All right. Let me get the camera. You know, it's tricky when we just don't have a clear distinction.