Bangor HPC approves restoration of 1825 Mason House on High Street

[2:32] Nathaniel King: My name is Nathaniel King. I am the chair of the Historic Preservation Commission and welcome to the March 12th, 2026 meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission. The commission members are, starting with the vice chair. [2:48] Rebecca Krupke: Rebecca Krupke. [2:51] Matthew R. Weitkamp: Associate member Matthew Weitkamp. [2:55] Peter James Sachs: Peter Sachs. [2:57] Peter Keebler: Member Peter Keebler. Katie Ko. [3:03] Nathaniel King: And from the city of Bangor we have Anya Colette and our consultant Mike Poland. So this story, sorry Matthew. Oh yeah, thank you, can't forget Matthew, sorry. So the Historic Preservation Commission has two roles. First, we serve as the Bangor Center Revitalization Area Design Review Committee, designated under Section 71 of the city ordinances, which covers review issues in the downtown and waterfront areas of Bangor. Second, the Commission has several responsibilities under the Historic Preservation Section of City Ordinances Section 148, including issuing certificates of appropriateness for construction of or changes to buildings within the City's designated historic districts. We may need to review a proposal under both design review and historic preservation criteria. If all regular members are in attendance, our associate members participate in the meeting, but do not vote on motions. In the event that any regular members are absent, associate members will vote such that there are a total of five votes for any motion. Historic preservation applications must receive four affirmative votes for a certificate of appropriateness to be issued. Design review applications must receive three affirmative votes for approval. Order of the meeting. I will call all the applicants in order they appear on the agenda. I think tonight we just have the one item before training. When I call your project, I'll ask you to present your application from the podium. Please make sure the microphone is on when you're up there. And once you have made your presentation, I will first ask for the consultant's report, second for questions from commission members, and third for any questions or comments from either the audience in person or if there's anyone online. When the questions are completed, the commission will have a discussion of the proposal and the standards of review under which the proposal is being considered. When discussion is complete, the commission will take action on the proposal to approve, deny, or Otherwise, handle it when a proposal is being evaluated under both design review and historic preservation criteria. The commission will make separate motions to each type of review. I will then ask for commission member votes. And some final points before the HPC. If it looks like your project will not be approved, you may choose to withdraw your application, amend your application, and then resubmit your application for a future meeting, saving the application fee. If you disagree with the decision of the commission regarding your project, you have the right to appeal that decision to the board of appeals. All projects need to be started within six months and completed within a year. Otherwise, a new application to the commission will need to be made and approved prior to starting your project. Excuse me, before we begin, are there any additions to the agenda for consideration? Okay, with that being said, the first item on the agenda is you have the go sheet, well Thank you. A certificate of appropriateness, or as I was, the meeting minutes from February 12th, 2026. I would entertain a motion to approve those minutes if there are any changes. [6:28] Lisa Goodwin: Before we do that, we just had requested that you, if any commissioners knew who made the motion and seconds on the previous minutes at last meeting, because we lost the audio. There's no audio for the last meeting. So we relied on notes only to draft these minutes. [6:45] Katie Coe: So, it's probably Matthew and Peter. I think they did those, I believe so. [6:53] Lisa Goodwin: Do you know who made the motion and 2nd? [6:55] Peter Keebler: I think I made the motion. [7:00] Matthew R. Weitkamp: And I believe I seconded it. Okay. [7:02] Lisa Goodwin: So, you can just make a motion, to approve the minutes with these changes. And then we'll add those into the final minutes. [7:12] Peter Keebler: So I make a motion we approve the minutes with that addition [7:17] Nathaniel King: I second it. Okay, starting with Katie [7:22] Peter James Sachs: Yes, I'm staying, I suppose, since I was not at that [7:28] Nathaniel King: meeting, so and you weren't at the meeting, you can vote for this. Yes, I also vote yes. Excuse me, meeting minutes pass. And just as a general reminder to the commission, When you are speaking, not that anyone has done this, make sure your microphones are on and speak into the microphone so anybody watching at home will be able to hear what we're saying. Okay, so now I would like to call for the new business certificate of appropriateness, 62 High Street, Map Lot 042-102, High Street Historic District. Applicant Louie Morrison, owner Gilpin Holdings, LLC. lc they are seeking approval the approval is requested for a certificate of appropriateness to remove and replace rotted trim boards and non-functioning gutter system and add four wooden cornices the property is located at map lot 042-102 in the high street historic district if you'd like to approach the podium please and thank you [8:31] Louis Morrison: Yes, thank you. Louis Morrison representing Gilpin Holdings. I think I'm going to do my best this time to say less because I feel as though my application is much more thorough than the last time I was here. I've got some examples of the material that will be used, some pictures that show the house in the 1800s, what I'm trying to make it look like now in 2000 or what it looked like in 2025 at purchase, and then the proposed look with the new gutters the trim board and cornices which i don't believe we talked about too much last time but i do have a contractor that is willing to build those for me with w excuse me haley ward specs to make it look almost identical or as close to it as possible as it did in this one picture in the 1800s. Otherwise than that, I think the more I say the more I dig myself a hole, so I'm gonna shush. Did [9:33] Nathaniel King: you say that you're using Haley Ward? Well, Haley [9:36] Louis Morrison: Ward, I said I'd like to make this building look exactly like it did this, so there's no way I get refused on this again. Can you design me some cornices? And I'm not even sure if I'm saying that correctly, so they did a drawing, this one. Yeah, I just gotta ask, did you, was it the [9:54] Nathaniel King: architecture division of Haley Ward? Yeah, oh yeah, okay, yeah, just a second. I, there may be a conflict of interest. My wife is Haley Ward senior interior designer and she works within the architecture division under their, and this was a buddy deal, so I, yeah, I understand, but just so we can avoid any, absolutely, I need to make sure, so I believe we need to put it to a vote. So as I said, in case y'all didn't hear, my spouse is directly employed by Haley Ward as their interior designer or one of their Interior designers or senior designer and she works in the architecture division, Matthew or Matt Arter, yeah, he was a former chair of the HPC, is her direct supervisor, so I don't know if she had any hands on this work, but I want to put it to the commission that it could be a conflict of interest, so as she gets paid and we have a joint account, I do that financial gain from it, so I don't know if she's, I do not know if she's worked on it, I don't ask her much about her projects and she may not have. She's an interior designer, not an architect, so but she is within that division, so I will leave it to the commission. [11:08] Peter Keebler: So at this point the vice chair will take the responsibility of the discussion vote, you, I mean. [11:16] Lisa Goodwin: You should all discuss it and then you vote on whether he has a conflict and then he would leave, well he could just sit in the audience, he just couldn't participate, so we just discuss now. [11:28] Rebecca Krupke: I don't feel like there's a conflict of interest because you don't even know what your wife's doing. [11:33] Lisa Goodwin: So I mean to be fair, just to somewhat define conflict, it's anybody that has a special interest that a member of the public doesn't have, and you also want to avoid the appearance of a conflict, so I. [11:53] Rebecca Krupke: Still hold my ground on that one, sorry, I would move that there's no. [11:57] Nathaniel King: Conflict here, like. [12:04] Katie Coe: Entertaining on this, so I was like, you're the vice chair, oh, does anyone wait. [12:10] Rebecca Krupke: Does anyone second, yeah, oh yes, second the motion, does anyone second the motion, I was wondering if anyone else had other comments, no, I thought we were on comment stage, sorry, yeah, I would say. [12:24] Peter James Sachs: That it is, first off, I commend you for your except exceptional honesty and integrity for like bring it for this, bring this up at the and at this moment, it is, I do think it is important that we don't want any even appearance of conflict of interest, I conf, I am confident that you will serve with utmost integrity if like continue, if we continue to vote on it, but I do not, but I do not think is in the interest of Bangor if you know some months from now, I don't know, there's like, so that you know the. Bangor Daily News makes it a bit of a scandal that, you know, that you were get that you were gonna get that, oh, your wife was works for this company that has gotten this work because of this. So for the, so I would, so I would suggest just to protect, simply to protect you from the appearance, from the appearance of scandal, protect this committee from even just the appearance of scandal. I would say, I would just say it's best to, say, to just say there is a, there is a conflict for now. Yeah. [13:37] Matthew R. Weitkamp: Yeah, this is one of those tricky situations living in a small community where we wear different hats, and you know, your wife works architecture as an interior designer and you sit on the commission. You know, you're not the same person even though you do share the same bank account. I think that's where we get into a really tricky spot on the commission. I don't want to even want any appearance. I understand. Apologies for [14:03] Peter Keebler: interrupting. So I have a question, which is the firm that your wife works for, you have employed them to do the work? No, you asked them to do the drawings just to tell, explain to me [14:19] Louis Morrison: what a cornice is, okay, and can you text me a picture of what one is, and he texted, she texted me, not your wife texted me a picture of that right there, which I included in the drawing. I said thank you very much, do you think my contractor could build one of those? He said with his eyes closed, and I said good, I will add those to the four corners of the building just as something that was brought up in the last meeting that these things could never be put back up because they've rotted and fallen off. I want to put them back up. Yeah, that's fine, I appreciate [14:56] Peter Keebler: that. So in this situation there was no financial transfer to this company and I'm not going to pay. This is my point from a standpoint of conflict of interest there, I think there needs to be an identifiable fiscal issue and I don't see one here. Yeah, I agree with member Keebler on that. [15:15] Peter James Sachs: Yeah, I'd also agree with member Keebler. If there is no payment, no financial interest whatsoever for the firm, then there's no even appearance of it. [15:25] Louis Morrison: Okay, I could have said it was [15:28] Katie Coe: I would move that there is no conflict. I second that motion. Oh [15:38] Rebecca Krupke: okay, roll call vote can, let's start at the very end. Katie? Yes. [15:45] Katie Coe: That there's no conflict. Yes, I vote that Chairman King does not have a conflict. Okay, and I also thought yes, again, I'm sorry that we interrupted [15:58] Nathaniel King: that, I just wanted to make sure as soon as you said Haley Ward I was like wait. [16:04] Louis Morrison: There's only a couple of they employ 100 people. Oh yeah, or anybody in my shoes is probably going to work with one of them at some point. So yeah, no, I appreciate that. I apologize, please continue. I remember I'm gonna I think I've got everything here that I that I need. Okay. [16:22] Nathaniel King: Well, if you've got nothing else commission members, do you have or actually no, let's hear the consultant's report. I'm getting the hang of this. [16:29] Mike Poland: Okay, you get the hang of it. Yeah, thank you for those commissioners that were not at the previous meeting when this was 1st heard. I'll just give you a brief history. I think I included a packet that was National Register information. So you saw it's a significant house, 1825. It's the General John Williams slash Mason House. I guess the Mason family lived there for generations. So they probably could lay claim to this house. And I think it actually says over the header of the door, the Mason House, 1820. It says 1820, but actually it's identified as 1825. So I won't get any more into that. That but I'll read to you as I always do the consultant's comments and I'm here to answer whatever questions you might have and the applicant can expand on any of these points as well. So the first one was as shown I say the for the commission to consider the information given so as shown in the black and white photo attached to the 78 natural register form the original details of the eave trim included profile gutters and returns at the gable ends of the house, the applicant intends to restore These details wanted to make sure everyone understood that. So the photograph that we're referring to is this shows downspouts on either end of the building for clarification, the returns at the gable ends, and this is just a characteristic photo it's called the box corners return. Okay. So, they intend to return that to the original condition. [18:09] Peter Keebler: Excuse me, that is this picture then? Yeah. Is the intent to be looking at the original? Yeah. [18:18] Mike Poland: And the profile of the gutters was a classic OG, it's called, or a K-style. In the applicant's materials, you saw profiles that were OG or K-style. Style K style is the common name for it. If you were to go to the store to try to buy this look, if you said classic OG, they'd probably send you to the wrong department. But so the return of the gutters, the point is that there's just a blank straight flat board up there now. These gutters will be mounted on that and give sculpture and relief along that entire front of the house and returning around the outside corners. By the way, I should note that the applicant intends to do the front and the back. Right, okay, yeah, there were round downspouts originally existed. I didn't know if you spoke Louis of whether or not those were going to go back as round or if that was the intent. When I say round, they're usually dimpled, you know, to give strength, slightly corrugated, that's a typical round gutter, the down Spouts, yeah, rather. [19:34] Katie Coe: Yeah. [19:42] Louis Morrison: Great big H and set it up there, I don't, you know, the circle down Spouts, I mean, I'm sure they could fabricate something like that, but I have not, okay, really discussed that it would be hidden anyways, right. [19:56] Mike Poland: Within the gutter system, the round would be visible on the outside, they're actually the downspouts coming down, they would probably round like three inch diameter, oh yes, I see. [20:09] Louis Morrison: I see what you're saying, I thought I had a drawing of, I do have some, I. [20:16] Mike Poland: Think if you're matching what was there originally, they look to be round, wait for it, there. [20:26] Louis Morrison: We go, yes, something like that, so that right, that little tube is that what you're talking about, the downspout, I was. [20:36] Mike Poland: Talking about the downspouts that come from the gutter down to, oh, is the whole thing going to be. [20:40] Louis Morrison: Right, yeah, oh of course, sorry, yeah, okay, I meant where the two pieces come together, that little downspout then empty into another one, now that'll all be one, but yes, it'll. [20:50] Mike Poland: Absolutely turned around, okay, and located about where they were on the original building, yep, and white, not rust white, very good. The rake trim was originally two piece, not the single piece of trim installed, the two-piece trim will greatly improve the scale of the instrument, so those were my comments in the commission, okay, thank you mike, commissioners, questions. [21:16] Katie Coe: For the applicant, I. [21:23] Peter Keebler: Guess the question I have is that given mike's comment about the two versus one piece and the scale of that, is that something that you would consider adding to the design as far as the one, I mean, maybe mike can explain better what he's talking about, it. [21:45] Mike Poland: Well, I think what I was trying to say, Peter, was right now there's just a big flat board up there. Right when they install the gutter, it'll give that OG profile added to that continuous piece, that's all. So there'll be those two pieces, the backboard behind it, okay, and the cornice [22:03] Louis Morrison: itself, yeah, and then the corners will give it back that look that I didn't think was going to be able to, which neither did any of us think would be able to be brought back. I mean, it's, it's not going to be styrofoam, it's going to be wood, but they make styro, you could buy one on Amazon of 20 bucks, styrofoam, and stick it up there, you wouldn't know the difference, but this would be made out of wood like it was in 1825 and look exactly like it did, so [22:27] Peter Keebler: I saw that. Thank you for clarifying. I appreciate it. [22:31] Rebecca Krupke: And then I think that you... I think I know the answer to this, but I'm just going to verify, because I believe that the ones that are on there or used to be on there kind of like went in the middle of the house, but you're going to push them off to the sides, right? [22:44] Louis Morrison: Yeah. There was one in the middle that was not an original. It was a picture from the 1800s. There was definitely never one in the middle. If anything, that created more of a... Problem with... that was, yeah, you could only buy them in eight foot sections, I don't know, but now you can buy them in 50, 100 foot sections if you want, right, bring it on tracks trailer, so they'll be on [23:03] Katie Coe: the side of the house. Yep, just awesome, perfect, four of them, that's it. So four downspouts, yeah. [23:12] Matthew R. Weitkamp: Do you have any photos of the back of the house or where you're intending to put the gutter [23:16] Louis Morrison: and downspouts? It's, if you flip the building, it's identical, it's a mirror, yeah, it's identical. There's a walkout basement on that side, that's the only difference. Perfect, yeah, as long as you're [23:27] Matthew R. Weitkamp: using the round downspouts and they're in location very close to where the two are here, I have no [23:34] Louis Morrison: yeah, the first picture of the 1800s, and then, yep, that's one of them. The final picture with some proposal in it is, I mean, you can kind of see the corner, but you can't even find a picture of the back of that building in any historical anything, so I guess everybody wanted to use the front, which makes sense, it faces the historical society building, so I [24:00] Peter Keebler: Don't have another question, but you have a comment, which is simply that the picture that you had put here was the proposed. Looking carefully at it, does look like that's a rectangular cross section for the downspout, and just from the standpoint, I understand that. Yeah, I understand that you're looking to do round, and that's great. Just from a perspective of when you have the make it, don't have make it. [24:20] Louis Morrison: From this drawing, Chat GPT only gave us a square. Yeah, I understand, but just, I don't know, yeah. [24:27] Nathaniel King: Absolutely, yeah. Any other comments? Okay, do we have anyone attending online or anyone in the public have a question? No? I will close the public comment then, and we will move into to discussion amongst the commission. My [24:49] Peter Keebler: my perspective is that I think they've addressed all the issues that we had before. I would commend them for, you know, being very sincere about moving forward and creating a profile. I think it makes a huge difference for this structure, and, you know, it's a, it's a beautiful structure. Yeah, thank you, and I appreciate [25:09] Louis Morrison: that, and I think it's one of the things where you come to a meeting, the first one, you don't have a clue what you're doing, right? I've been to 100 of these, but I still don't have a clue because of this building, and then you learn from folks that truly get it and truly care, and you get frustrated like I do, and you storm out, you act like a little baby, but then you go back and you think about it, and you go, you know, I know you're not getting on this board for money, that's for sure. You're doing it, you know, because you want to, you know, preserve historical Bangor, and I can promise you, I'm one of the top list guys that want to do the same thing, but don't know what I'm doing, you know, so I lean on other people, and, you know, and so I appreciate you accepting me back in, and, you know, still got my three-year-old looking handwriting, but that's [25:50] Peter Keebler: never going to change, so don't be sure to read it. Yeah, my comment would be, I think this is good work. [25:55] Matthew R. Weitkamp: Thank you. Yeah, all right, I guess I wanted to echo what Peter said. I think this is going to make a huge difference to this building, both visually and structurally, so the water's not [26:06] Katie Coe: running down the maze. Yeah, exactly, blow it out, and then, exactly, we're just not having the rot and [26:13] Rebecca Krupke: rust, and it just visually looks so much better. It's going to look much better. The reason all [26:18] Louis Morrison: The old stuff rotted out was because, I mean, the gutters weren't even connected, so they were, you know, and it was just rotted. And there were, you know, I just mentioned to these guys, like, not only could squirrels get in this building, like bears could get in this room. We had them. It was that [26:31] Rebecca Krupke: rotted in the top. Thank you for working with us though, of course, and understanding what we're [26:36] Peter Keebler: trying to do. So make one more comment. I'm presuming from what we're seeing here that these K-style gutters are aluminum. Let me double check my notes, but it might have a fancy [26:50] Louis Morrison: word, but it is aluminum, no rust, 20 to 30 year, one piece seamless. Okay, great, thank you. My [26:59] Peter Keebler: comment for discussion with the group, of course, that one of our standards is replacing in kind, okay, in terms of materials, and I don't see an issue in this situation. We've been discussing the concept of, you know, as long as the appearance is the same and the material being used is as good or better than what the original would have been, that I might, that we're going the direction of that not being an issue. Yeah, though the stat, the actual, what is the great right term for the statute of the regulation does state that the statute is stating that we need to be, whenever possible, replacing in kind. So just make the comment that is not the case for this, but that I don't see an issue for it in terms of discussion with the group, because that is going to be one of the things we [27:48] Nathaniel King: vote on. Mike, 50 years ago, what would the gutters have been? They've been aluminum or some [27:53] Mike Poland: sort of core? Well, within 50 years they would probably be aluminum. Going back 100 plus years, they were usually cypress, I think, was the wood that was used. They would often line them with a [28:05] Nathaniel King: metal liner. Sure, I'm just thinking in terms of, like, what we consider historic, that 50-year, that 50-year timeline, I mean, there's a reason. Yeah, it's buildings obviously been around longer than 50 years, but we could make a reasonable argument that while not the initial original cedar metal line gutters, it is still within something that would have been within the 50-year historic period, so they would have had those aluminum style nutters. That was just my thought. I didn't mean to interrupt you, and didn't mean to interrupt, interrupting everyone [28:33] Louis Morrison: And I won't, I'll try not to wrap, but so when it comes to the vote, like I can see where, how do you possibly say yes when it's obviously no, right? But I don't understand the voting, all the different things that vote, and I think there's only one of them that actually pertains to the overall. But I can see where you could, like, I want you to vote yes on that, but you can't vote yes, metals not wood, right? And that's how it weighs out. It's not like a you got to get best [28:59] Nathaniel King: out of 10 or something, and that's kind of my argument with the 50-year rule, because historic preservation, you know, 50 years is considered historic, right? So, you know, anything built this day, 1976 and older, is considered historic. So if this had metal gutters in it 50 years ago, you can reasonably say, while not the original construction material for the building, it is still a defining feature. In those 50 years, it probably had those white aluminum gutters. This [29:28] Louis Morrison: is kind of what I was asking. I hear you. Yeah, I mean, if unlimited money and unlimited time was a thing, and somebody would do it, I mean, wouldn't it be beautiful to say, hey, can you build me some wooden gutters? It would take them a year. You could find, especially like buildings, how about Cyprus? [29:41] Peter James Sachs: We'll do Cyprus. I don't even know what that is. Yeah, is there any record, is there even any record of what it was made of, or are we just spec it, or would that, Mike knows this stuff. Yeah, I think [29:52] Mike Poland: Mike says it was made of what, I think what we saw from the first application, Lou pointed out where the destruction had occurred with the sagging of the old gutters, may have been, may have had some wood components to them. Maybe they had a lining, maybe they didn't. Sometimes they did. But I'll read from you, and you guys are familiar enough with your standards, but it basically says in the ordinance, deteriorated architectural features should be, should be repaired rather than replaced whenever possible. In the event that replacement is necessary, the new material should match the material being replaced in composition, design, texture, and finish. I think that's what you're getting here. The profile of the og matches what was there originally, even though it was a different material. So I think if you can pass that straight faced, yeah, okay, any other comments? [30:42] Matthew R. Weitkamp: I do have to say wooden gutter is still available, even though it's very costly, wild. Yeah, it's like it's either lined with metal or soaked in linseed oil. [30:56] Peter Keebler: I've replaced on my own house wooden gutters with wood as if I, yeah, I do want to point [31:03] Lisa Goodwin: Out it doesn't say it in our ordinance, but in the Secretary of Interior standards it does say that commission should take into account technical and economic feasibility when using these standards. [31:13] Peter James Sachs: Which are based on the Secretary's standards, so yeah, I mean, just as we've been saying, like this edition will last what did you say, 30, like yeah, I mean, I think the gutter itself has a 30-year [31:27] Louis Morrison: guarantee, you know, warranty on it, but it's going to last and I'll live, all of us unfortunately, yeah. [31:32] Peter James Sachs: Yeah, exactly, yeah, my point is like this is this edition and you spoke about how this would preserve the brickwork, preserve the building, make it livable, make it a living piece of history again, okay, and that I believe has great, value, like great value, and I think that this is would really enhance the historic value and preservation of the property, of the rest of [31:59] Louis Morrison: the building, you know, for something that I mean nobody wants to put, you don't buy a house or build a house or want to put gutters on it, you know, like it changes the look no matter what's a brand new house, old house, but it's either that or watch your brick and mortar rot away and your grounds rot away and your sides run away and your roof run away, but any additional comments [32:20] Nathaniel King: Okay, hearing none, I will close the commission comment period and we will move [32:24] Lisa Goodwin: into the fun part, sorry, yes, before you get to that I just wanted to point out I said it in the memo, but we did include like you requested all the standards in here and the ones where we left the exhibits blank were ones we didn't feel were applicable, but if you want to just review those and if you feel like they're not applicable you can vote on that or you can just not [32:49] Nathaniel King: not address them, okay, so just for awareness of the of the commission, the ones that were found to not apply are part two one, I have one right on the next part two section, yeah, part two section one seven eight and then part three one two and three, so any objections, I'd like to make [33:25] Peter Keebler: a motion that we strike those paragraphs from the, we call this a certificate of appropriateness, as they are not applicable, second, edit, yeah. [33:41] Nathaniel King: Roll call vote, start with Katie, yes, I also vote yes, okay, so I'm going to put an N A next to those, so I try not to read them or whoever does read them. [33:58] Peter Keebler: Okay, who wants to do the reading, I can get started with that, we group the procedural background together with part one standards, yes, we did that last time. [34:14] Nathaniel King: Did we not believe that's how we did that? And before we roll in, these are written in the affirmative, so we're saying if you vote yes, you're saying that this does satisfy the specific component that we're that we're voting [34:27] Peter Keebler: on. For clarification, so I will start off by moving that the procedural background that includes the complete application and that this is a certificate of appropriateness as well as part one section one. Do I need to read it all? I do, okay. It says the Commission finds that based on exhibits 2-6 the application satisfied historic preservation code 148-9 a requiring that any alteration of the historic structure will preserve or enhance its historical and architectural contextual character. So I'll group those into my first motion. Sarah second. Okay and [35:13] Nathaniel King: reminder that we are voting in the affirmative or in the voting yes means you believe it does satisfy voting no means you do not it does not. So starting with Rebecca yes [35:26] Katie Coe: yes and I also [35:29] Peter Keebler: vote yes. Okay I move that the part 2 section 2 that states the Commission finds that based on exhibits 2-6 the applications that satisfies historic preservation code 148 dash 9b parentheses to be requiring that rehabilitation work does not destroy the distinguishing character quality distinguishing qualities nor character of the structure and its environment [35:59] Nathaniel King: Seconded. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I also vote yes. Okay. [36:06] Peter Keebler: Next motion that under Part 2, Paragraph 3, the Commission finds that based on Exhibits 2-6, the application satisfies Historic Preservation Code 148-9 requiring that while repair is preferable to replacement in the event that replacement of deteriorated architectural features as necessary the new material should match the material being replaced and composition design texture and finish. As based on our previous discussion I move that second [36:42] Nathaniel King: yes and I will also vote yes moving forward I move that the Commission plans it based [36:50] Peter Keebler: is nothing so it's 2-6 this is section 4 under part 2 that the application satisfies historic preservation code number 48-9 to be requiring the distinctive stylistic features or examples of skilled craftsmanship which characterize its further structures is not damaged or destroyed wherever possible. Seconded yeah okay yes i move that lenders part two section of there we go yes the commission finds it based on exhibits 2-6 the application satisfies historic preservation code 148-9b2e Requiring that the changes which have taken place in the course of time have acquired historic significance in their own right are retained and preserved whenever possible. Second, yes,, I move that part two, section six, the commission finds it based on two exhibits, 2-6, the application satisfies historic preservation code 148-2b2f requiring that alterations to an historic building to create an earlier appearance not be undertaken except when qualifying as a restoration under the Secretary of Interior standards for restoration. Second, yes,, and move that part two's section nine, the commission finds it based on exhibits 2-6, the application satisfies historic preservation code 148-9b2i requiring that whenever possible all alterations to structures should be done in such a manner that if they were to be removed in the future the essential form and integrity of the original structure would be unimpaired. Seconded, yes,, and then finally we will say under part five, decision, I move that the commission finds a project meets the requirements for certificate of appropriateness and therefore grants a certificate of appropriateness permit [39:08] Nathaniel King: for the proposed project. Seconded, yes, I also vote yes, the motion passes, certificate appropriateness is issued. Moving on to the next item on the agenda, the training from Artifex. Beautiful work, Matthew. [40:38] Rebecca Krupke: Cinematic, there we go, that's so much better. Oh, your mic, Mike needs [40:54] Mike Poland: his mic. Okay, well, tonight this review is, I've been asked to do deals with the great fire of 1911 and how the city remade itself after that great fire, and the second part of it is a review of historic house styles that we find in Bangor. Okay, so we're going to try to keep it brief, it's only 65 slides long, so this starts out, Bangor, as you may or may not have known, was one of the very first communities in Maine have a historic preservation ordinance, yeah, and when things began in on the federal side in 1966 with the passage of the National Preservation Act, only five years later Maine Historic Preservation Commission was formed. The head of it, the state historic preservation officer at the time, was James Mundy, you may know that name, James Mundy also wrote a couple of books about the history of Bangor, the Irish in Bangor, and those are worth seeking out if you get an opportunity to, m-u-n-d-y, yeah, and Earl Shuttleworth, who we've all heard, took over after James, he actually worked with James and Bangor was really one of his first stations and communities where he came, Earl did came in to do the research, so starting that soon thereafter, two years after the commission was formed in '73, was the establishment of the Broadway Historic District that was done almost entirely with Earl Shuttleworth's work and research, as well as the '74 Mount Hope Historic District. In '75, what you see on the left there is actually the cover for what was the 1975 Historic Resources Inventory, again attributed to Earl Shuttleworth. The sketch that you see there was done by Chris Glass, and it is at the Kent Cutting House, Charles Bryant design. So Bangor, I think this is current Bangor, currently has 10 certified historic districts, six being National Register listed, and it has 37 historic landmarks. I think one was added, there was 36 that's on the city map, but one was added, which was the bus, what was once the bus shed out there on Broadway, which the article in the paper probably mentioned that the Cryptozoology Museum was going to be moving in there. The commission listed that, I think about a year ago or so, to be listed, that was, oops, identified as an important building, now listed on the National Register. So Bangor's Great Fire started right on the photograph on the left was Frank Green's hay shed. It's long been considered where the origins of the fire occurred. It's full of hay. There may have been some kids in there smoking who, nobody seems to know, nobody can be blamed with the Great Fire, but we do know where it started, and we do know where it spread. So if you look at the graphic on the right, everything that you see that's desaturated and gray was lost in the Great Fire. It was huge. It had huge impact to the city. And what happened was from about where this shed was, which was down almost to Washington Street, where the railroad crossing is, what you're looking through that building, you're seeing what was once Bangor's train terminal station. Yeah, that's the tower, and that's the building that's long gone, but as this says, at four o'clock on Sunday, April 30th, 1911, the fire broke out in a large hay shot on lower Broad Street. 24 hours later, Bangor had lost 100 businesses, 267 dwellings, eight churches, two Brewer men died in the fire, the post office and Customs House was lost, City Library and the high school all lost. So again, you see that gray, the gray desaturated portions, or where fires were. The fire took out. It began and it was a fiercely windy day, and the embers from way down on Washington Street leapt basically up behind where Bangor Savings is on State Street today. Behind that was a series of wooden sheds that caught fire, and they really took off from there. So here we have the building that you see on the very right with the column there, and the gentleman standing there supporting it is actually to Hammond Street, that's the senior Center, so that's a survivor of this fire. But the building on the other side is where Bangor Savings is today, which is where they were then. On the ground floor the Bangor Public Library was on the second floor, and the Bangor Historical Society was on the third floor, so a lot of materials were lost in that fire right there. And you can see that the flames are basically spread across to the frame building on the other side, which is the Ferrer Furniture Company. And that's basically ready to burst into flames. So the fire moved very fast. You can see how windy it was there. And as this quote says, thousands of leaves from the burning magazines that were in the library and books, each a miniature blazing torch, were carried on the wind, some more than a mile. So as this is the fire they said was burning significantly in three parts, the beginning Origins down there near the Hay Shed here on State Street, and then blowing up into French Street and the neighborhoods up above there. So there's no way that anyone, even competent firemen today, probably couldn't cover a three-part fire. So here we see the remnants of the after the fire, the building on the left that was the tall Morse Oliver building, that was the crown jewel of Wilford Mansour, beautiful. Design building, hotel. So what you see there is the cadets from the University of Maine were actually tasked with trying to prevent any looting, which I understand didn't happen. They said it was pretty amazing that there was no looting that was reported, but they're basically trying to both keep people safe and to protect property. But look at how people are walking through what is covered with ashes, and there's still smoldering buildings in the background, and they wanted to get close to it, see what was going on. So this is the return of the city after the great fire. The city retained an important landscape architect, Wilfred Mansour, out of Boston, to develop what he called the plan for the burn district. He was a very competent landscape architect, and his designs actually included some pretty incredible ideas. One of them was where there were once buildings on the two malls, where that says Neuromega Mall, that today is where we have the statues downtown, where the stream splits. There were actually physical buildings that covered all of the footprint of those parks, so they burned in the fire, and his suggestion was, let's develop a fire break. This would be an opportunity to kind of get separation between two parts of the city, that were so fire couldn't carry through. Smart idea. He thought about the idea of putting the library in the high school on Harlow Street, and if you can see where those are located there, it's about where they are, but they were flipped, the high school on the other side, and the designers for that, which I think we'll see in a little bit, the replacement buildings, were Peabody and Stearns out of Boston, very competent firm. He had some ideas about recirculating traffic and extending Main Street up where Central and Franklin streets are, but that never happened, and he had an idea of a new bridge you see way on the far right, a new bridge, which became the Washington Street Bridge that crosses over. So important ideas that came out of it. Temporarily, since Bangor's Firehouse burned in the Great Fire, they moved into what was an auto garage on Union Street, and were there for many years until they built the building that they're in today on Main Street, the modern concrete building. So they identified the aerial truck, and you can see, if anyone remembers the Seinfeld episode where Kramer was on the back with that steering wheel that 's kind of what this always reminds me of when i see this guy now osha was not around the day that this photograph was taken on the right because had they been they probably would have clamped down on getting too close to the cornice edge but this was the new graham building the original graham building is down kind of where the print shop is down below there and that was a lovely building mansour building that burned so this was a mansour design one of The features of Mansour's architecture is that he oftentimes uses arches. So you see the top of this, he's kind of finished with grouped windows and arches above them. Buildings that you see downtown that feature arches in a really glorious way were probably done by him. So it's interesting to see how much scaffolding there was that it takes to put up a building like this. And this was wood scaffold, not like the modern stuff that we have today. So on the left also appreciate that a lot of these postcards that we see in history were sent to Europe and Germany, especially where they would hand color these and paint them. So these cars that you see are not even realistic cars. They're like cartoons or something that were added to this image. Sometimes you'll see the postcards get the colors right and oftentimes they're not exactly right. So here is the replacement high school. This is of course next to the library today on Harlow Street. You can see after this was built around 1915, a lot of these buildings you're seeing went in 1912 to 1915. This was the new high school. It was considered non-combustible construction that was called so the floors were actually made out of tiles, terracotta tiles that grouped together and formed a very stiff surface. Materials top to bottom were intended to be non-combustible as much as they could be. So Peabody Stearns again, a feature, a very important architecture firm in Boston did this building and they did our library as well. So the library again had actually been working before the fire to put together enough money so that they could build some place and this kind of gave them the great opportunity to do something special so they did. This is what we would call neoclassical architecture. It borrows heavily from Roman design and Greek and Roman design. So it's considered neoclassical and the building that we're in right now was actually the post office and federal building of the time. It was designed actually by the supervising architect of the treasury at the time, Oscar Wendereth. And if I remember, the firm that built this, because they had so much construction going on here locally that they had to bring firms in from away, the firm that built this was from Tacoma, Washington. So this is a fantastic building, the building that we're in. And it's really kept up well as a stone building would. You can see in the distance the library and the park that was between the library and that park street that goes up in front. And on the left, if you look closely, you can see what was once an auto dealership. And the cars are lined up. That's where I'm parked, actually. Late tonight so but it went from being called the East Market, this part of Bangor was called East Market compared to West Market on the other side, it went to be being called the Post Office Square. So can you see that? Yeah, that's and there's two-way traffic. It looks like there's a car coming up which I met the other day. It wasn't this car but Yeah, there were trolleys. Yep, absolutely. Trolleys ran all the way out to Kandeske, I guess. This was the star building of C. Parker Crowell. The firm today, WBRC, actually started with a handful of people, C. Parker Crowell being one of them. That's his office. That's him with the Derby hat on and his two key draftsmen. But he actually designed all of the buildings listed. You see the Stetson Block, the Clark, Lynch, the Kirstein Building, Pierce Block, Universalist Church Repairs, and this one being the Eastern Trust and Banking Company. Really fabulous design, really strong buildings that are lasting just forever. Well built, well made. I should say that prior to the fire, many of the buildings, especially in this little district here, as you saw from the photograph earlier, were all wood-framed buildings. So they went from wood-framed to almost requiring all of them to be masonry and less easily burnt. The building in the middle was designed by Victor Hodgins. It's actually one of two buildings downtown that is terracotta. This building is where the Rock and Art Shop is today so next time you go by you might look up some of the detail is kind of interesting. These were considered modern window details, it was called the Chicago style of the time, 1911, 1912. The building Beyond is the Kirstein building, the brick building where WBRC's office are and then the one on the far left was a Wilfred Mancer. So we have three architects here, you know all working heavily to get the city rebuilt. Again, the building that we're in here is an interesting building, the Post Office Federal Building, so-called. This basically has a twin building in Danville, Illinois. If you ever get a chance, type in Danville and go and see what their building looked like, because they basically took the plans from Danville, cut one of the stories off the top and built this in Bangor. So with very similar that results, the building in Danville is still being used as a post office, I believe. Yeah, so and in the foreground you see this is the Pierce Memorial. This park was created, there was actually a Baptist church used to exist just in that greeny grass area between City Hall and this statue, you can see the Tarantino building in the back. That was a survivor of the fire. The fire actually burned all around that. It did not take that building out. And this is a classic, a neoclassical building, Bangor Savings Bank, a fabulous design, very solid. Carrier and Hastings is a firm out of New York. The city was retaining the best architects of the time in New England and New York. And this building is really cool because the front doors that you see there actually slide into pockets. Those copper doors were lost many years ago, and the bank actually took it upon themselves to have those doors restored. So they had Heritage, you probably know Heritage Company who do copper work, found the original drawings and actually put those doors, so every morning they come and they still slide them into the pockets, and you'd never see them unless you go by when those doors are closed. Fabulous building. This was the replacement First Baptist Church that you see today up on top of the hill. This was the one that was down in the park earlier. It was lost in the fire. Yes it is, you're right Peter. This has Tiffany glass. George Newton was the architect. Don't know much about him, but we do know a bit about All Souls Church in that what you see there is the drawings, the original drawings of that building, and if you look closely where the where the steeple is right now at the intersection of the two gable roofs, originally in the design there was planned for a very heavy kind of Norman sort of blocky structure that never got built, and I'm glad it didn't, because it looks much more graceful the way it is today with that copper spire which really just fits beautifully. This is a Gothic Revival church and quite handsome. The story was that they took stones from, this was the merger of two congregations in Bangor that both lost churches. There was one on this site I think was The parish church, so they took stone from the two churches, and you see two different colored stones if you look at it, a much darker redder stone on the bottom, and which I think was from Fundy, the Bay of Fundy. I remember beautiful kind of a golden colored green golden slate roof. This is a fabulous building, Saint John's Episcopal Church. Originally the building that was there before this was designed by Richard Upjohn. We know Richard Upjohn who did the Hill House where the historical society is, he did the Pharaoh Mansion across the street, and he went on to design some and other important churches. He really became a church designer in his career. Saint John's replacement church that we see today was designed by his grandson, Hobarth Up John, and because the belfry never had a bell in it and they'd spent all their money on the inside plaster work I think, which is gorgeous, that upper portion, the belfry, is no longer there. It had to come down, they couldn't keep it, was in really tough shape, rocks were coming apart and they would drop into the ground. So the building on the right is actually Universalist Church. That church, the original church building, actually they dynamited the back of that to try to stop the fire. I had a great photo, but it's not in this slideshow, of that where that dynamite blew off. So if you're ever in the back of this church and you get a look at the back of it, you're going to see a kind of a scene that goes almost horizontally. The upper part of that was all blown away trying to stop the fire with a blast of dynamite. It didn't stop it, just, I would imagine, it just sent more embers up in the air right to float up into the neighborhoods. The building on the right that you see on the far right was done by C. Parker Kroll and Walter Lancaster in the 20s, and it's and it's called the it's the Dorothy Memorial portion, Palladian window. This is kind of neoclassical architecture too. The church on the left though is very much Gothic Revival. You can see the Gothic details on it point whenever you see pointed windows that's a dead giveaway so that kind of ends my talk about the great fire bang bangor there's a district as you all know we have the great fire of 1911 historic districts pretty much demarked into the downtown commercial area so whenever you're downtown and you look up over the doors and you see a date block of 1911, 12, 1915. Those were all buildings that were replacing the ones that were lost previously. Yeah, I don't know. I think it had to, well, Kirstein, in the example down bottom, Peter, the Kirstein block, that's where Kirstein Insurance Company took up their business in there. So they were the major tenant or probably the owner of the building. And then they subdivided other floors or other portions and the ground floor was other businesses that they so where did they come up with a name largay i guess was a family that probably had money a lot of them are named after the people i think that had the buildings built yeah so [1:00:49] Lisa Goodwin: What was the rebuilding funded, was that all insurance? Good question, insurance money, yeah. [1:00:54] Mike Poland: Absolutely good articles right after the fire about how these businesses were coming together and how they kind of group together in the city help them to make sure that they got the money that they needed to rebuild. So yeah, no good question. There's a great historic photograph taken about where Bangor Savings is today looking up towards the hill going up State Street and there's three big insurance company signs on the side of a building just before the fire and there's also in the foreground there's a hydrant and where there's a hydrant today just sitting there a hydrants it's like oh boy that's that's that's a premonition right there. So again if you see 1912 1911 15 something like that over the door it's probably from that period. So we're going to also talk about bangor's architectural historic house styles this is generalized to a degree so we can anytime you have a question or something you just say hey mike what's up with that. We're going to cover from the period around 1760 up to 1930 or so. There were other styles that continued on after 1930, obviously. And this is towards the end. Beyond craftsmen, you had colonial revival style. So Bangor has a lot of four square houses, Bangor boxes that are so called. Those were really from the style that I would call colonial revival arrival that came in a little bit after so starting with Colonial oh you've all seen this map right we talked about this last time so really the lumber capital of the world Bangor was we had abundant natural resources we had local wood which was prime wood prime cut wood we had granite coming from Waldo slate from where was that from Milo up that way Monson yeah brick from Bangor and brewer brick went on for many years actually helped to rebuild boston after their great fire and we have prosperous families from all of these operations that could afford the best so they were really bengal was really hopping in 75 when this map and this aerial was done so the colonial style is really borrowed from europe this is a european house style came over, no surprise. We were colonists. The house that we actually reviewed tonight, the house you see on the right, the Mason House, so-called, is a prime example of a colonial slash federal style house. You see up above the window, there's a little bit of an arch, like a fan arch. Sometimes those were glazed. That's a dead giveaway for a federal style house. House, so this house is late Colonial moving into federal style. When we became our own independent sovereign nation, the things began to move into another style being federal. So federal style houses are all over Bangor. This, by the way, is still the five, this is called the five Bay. The previous one was as well. You count the windows across there or the doors and they all stack up nice and symmetrically. That was a five Bay, this is also a five Bay. Five Bay brick colonial house with federal detail, so Again, here we see a fan light up over the door. This was the John Hamm house up on Broadway and Somerset Street. John Hamm was a very talented Mason, brick Mason, so he built this Bay on the end. That's not part of the colonial style, it was really a later style. So oftentimes we see what's called transitional house styles, where they've actually added or amended parts of the house or put on something else that doesn't seem to belong to that original period, as you see right here. But again, here we have slate, we have fine wood, we have brick, we have granite building these places. This is a framed house called the Bruce House up on Bruce Road. Road. There was a dam down below this on the Kandeskiag, which I think this family had something to do with Flower Mill Dam, I think it was called, that used to go across. There's still remnant pieces of it there, and there's a little overlook that you can go down and kind of look. If you're down there and you stop and take time on that overlook and you look around, below you is a large penstock, I mean like a six foot diameter pipe that used to funnel water through to something. So there was some pieces of that. I'd love have to see what the thing looked like originally, but I haven't been able to find that. So if you look at these houses, like in the wintertime, you see the where the snow is melted and where it hasn't melted. It really tells the story about the skeleton interior of this of this building. So they were heated with fireplaces, so the fireplaces came down, and there would have been two front and back, two front and back. There could have been as many as six to eight fireplaces in this house. So somebody was running a lot to the woodshed. Again, this is five bay, but it's a frame house. And in Bangor, we have a lot of what we call double houses. A double house is basically a mirror up the middle of it that copies one side to the other. This is a double house up on Hammond Street, the Stephens Haynes house. I think it's just quite interesting to notice that the windows upstairs, which is where the bedrooms are, smaller than and so light wasn't needed as much as it was downstairs. So you see, they were pretty smart about what they were doing here. And we talk about lead and being sustainable today. I mean, these would be great sustainable features of a house, you know, put the light where you really need it. So when you ride around Bangor, you may see examples of houses like this, which were double houses. You could almost do a listing of houses that belong to that particular type of architecture. architecture. Bangor has a lot of glorious Greek revival houses. It's probably the style that really sets Bangor off architecturally. So this style basically expands on the forms of the colonial features, but it adds a lot that in what's called the entablature, which is that whole trim on the cornice from the cornice to the freezeboard underneath it and other trim around there, it's very heavy. So that heavy detail carries around the house. And it basically, when it runs up into the pediment of the house on the gable ends, develops into what really looks like Greek architecture. So really wonderful houses that featured things like columns, you see, as you do on this house on the right on High Street, has a portico that comes out. And with the use of columns and other detailing at cornices, It really emphasizes this house and the style. The one on High Street, the George Brown House, is a painted brick. It's a brick house painted solidly. This is a really classic house. This is what's called a Temple Front Greek Revival House. This is the Zebulon Smith House down on Summer Street, I think it is. This used to be in a neighborhood back years ago. Most of the houses, the police department is on the opposite side of this. And then there's a big parking garage for the bank right beside it, so it's kind of lonely and it's just sitting, but it's a wonderful example of Greek Revival architecture. The thing to really note here is this is a brick house. You can see the brick on the side, flanking sides, and they covered the brick with wood because in Bangor they could do wood details like at Morse Company and other places. That was highly featured and very decorative, so they were showing the world this is what we can do to look like a stone front facade in wood. Fabulous, very important house, so you're going to be tested later. But this style right here is called the Ionic capital on top of those, looks like two rolls of toilet paper or something, or scrolls if you will. So this book that I was sharing with Rebecca earlier, if you don't have a copy, this is a wonderful book to get your hands on. It's called The Field Guide to American Houses and Virginia McAllister. I think it's still in publication, but a lot of the illustrations that I've got in this slide talk are from that book. This house, if you're going up a Highland towards the standpipe, you're heading up the steep Hill. This house has Doric columns. And I think what the architect did here was really quite amazing. And I'm not sure who it was. It could have been Benjamin Dean. But basically, the windows, if you look on that gable end, are not arranged symmetrically. So he wants to bring your attention down to the porch where the columns are arranged symmetrically. And it's like this dual counter, like I can be balanced, I feel comfortable, so everything else about it, the house is really quite proper, but I think he took a risk, you know, in locating windows in this style that were slightly off. The columns that you see here are called Doric because they have a cushion like this. It was based on shape of hands supporting something. So those are fluted, if you look closely, those are fluted, and those things, if you've ever seen one up close, we're usually each flute Between the flutes is like a raised portion, was a separate piece of wood, a stave that joined the next day, that joins the next one all the way around to form sometimes as many as 24 of those to make the entire column up. Just fascinating work. Yeah, there was something going on the inside that they basically couldn't accommodate, you know, I mean the matching up of the windows. But look at what's the column support, a really powerful deep cornice and entablature, and he carries the same detail up above. Below the pediment on that end of the house. If you look at the very top window, you see a stepped lintel. That's unique. I've seen it in one other house down in Hamden actually has that. Just a unique detail. Didn't have to do it, but they did it because it was beautiful. And this is an incredible house. This is the Nathaniel Hatch house on Court Street in Bangor, which is going to be 200 years old here very soon. This was a Charles Bryant design. Charles Bryant leaves his signature on a lot of buildings. And one of the things he does is this rather organic shape that you see up here that's trapped inside the pediment. Really quite unique. But look at the back. If you look to the far end of this building, you can see another column showing. The front and the back were identical, that's the highest level of beauty that you could carry into a building like this at the time that had the back, had views right down through the back park property down to the condescending stream. Just a glorious house, and this is very large scale. I'd be about as tall as those hedges if I was standing on the porch, so it's just overwhelming how beautiful and how large scale this is. Charles Bryant was a very important architect. Here's another one of his buildings in Bangor, and this is a double house, the Kent Cutting house, and if you look closely you can see the columns here are above them is a wreath on the freeze panel that is one of his signatures. Anytime you'll see a column with a wreath above it 's probably Charles Bryant, but notice also the windows very modern, they come all the way down to within inches of the floor, so I've never been in this house, but this one used to be Gene Dean's house and it's just a glorious house. I'm glad they Didn't lose the cast iron railings that you see here. That's really important detail. But what else he did was really clever. You can't really see it, but there's maybe just a hint of it. This is a hipped roof, kind of a low slipped slope hip roof, so you really can't see it so much here. But up in that attic, those really organic, those four organic kind of openings that you see detailed above that dental band, those were actually light into the attic space. Awesome. Amazing. Just incredible. So these are square columns he boxed that out and the siding that they used on this house like they did in many of the banger Bangor houses was actually called sheathing the sheath boards of the outside rusticated siding and sometimes you'll see it I think I have an example in here where they've actually carved it to look more like stone they put vertical joints on it you may have seen that if you pick it up so this handsome guy in the lower left Richard up John one of the most important architects in American history, starts out right here in Bangor. He gets to Boston, establishes an office. He was really a cabinetmaker. He was trained as a cabinetmaker in England, came here, set up an office, said, Okay, I want to do architecture. One of his very first commissions after getting here was for St. John's Episcopal Church. So he came up and he made friends with people here, the Farah family, the Hill family and others, and ended up designing a few houses while he was in town. So what the Isaac Pharaoh mansion looks like today is in the lower right, but what it looked like originally was above that, which was a very much of a Greek Revival house, very different in the in the late 1800s. They hired Wilfred Mansour to the queen and the place, so he changed the roof out a bit, put these dormers in, put bay windows on, changed it quite a bit. But on the side, on the Second Street side, is that Second Street, I think, whatever that street is, on the side there was a beautiful looks like cast iron grill supporting a slight porch on that side of the building, really quite unique. But in England you could probably put a parapet up like that and let your roof slope in behind it, but in Bangor, Maine, that only lasted about 30 years and it was gone on, because I imagine ice and snow and everything else accumulated behind that. So great story, though, don't know what the future of that building is now with the why leaving that neighborhood. So let's hope it goes well. The other building that he did was right across the street, which was the Thomas Hill house, Thomas Hill house, actually, you see a modification that was made in again, late 1800s. This the original house was 1835. If you've been by there lately, we're rebuilding the whole portico front back all three sides a lot of work but all that granite has to be reset and the foundations had to be rebuilt under that whole colonnade so those are coming off the columns are being temporarily braced they're going back to the shop and being repaired el shea is doing the work good job but these dormers are called flemish dormers and i'm not sure who or why they went in but i think it was like late 1800s and it does change the style of the building but it actually originally was very greek revival as you can see even with the steps so the lower right photo is looking down the arcade which actually that portico goes around three sides of the building if you look closely you can see the granite planks that are there were all uneven And there was actually kind of a tripping hazard, you know, of as much as a couple inches. So that all is in repair right now. So Richard Upjohn goes on to become one of the nation's premier church architects. He does little small churches like the one in Brunswick, which you see in the upper right, parish church. And he does giant Gothic revival churches like Trinity Church in New York City. now the amazing thing about that is this church looks really big because it had no neighbors that were like six times taller than it which it does today so if you're on wall street this is on wall street and you go by it feels really dwarfed but it's an enormously important church it was the time when both the episcopal and catholic church faiths were really had adopted gothic revival as their favorite prototype architecture for their churches so you see it used quite a bit so he went on to Design he really was a church architect after this, so Gothic Revival. Peter, you may want to pay attention here because this style might apply to you. Gothic Revival is a really interesting style. It's based, of course, on borrowing the Gothic styles from Europe, has called the pointed style as well. All the windows are pointed, they have pointed gables, they have sharp gables, they have finials to accentuate the points, just a glorious architecture. A lot of opportunity to make some fun things with that. So this one, even though it says Cliff Cottage, Peter, it used to be the carriage house, right? The stable for the Cliff Cottage, but it physically got moved like in the 70s or so. In the 70s, got physically picked up and moved adjacent to the Cliff Cottage and sat down and Dr. Wood and his wife live there now. So some of the details you see again from Virginia's book are some of the things we see on this carriage, on this barn. The finials, the barge boards or verge boards, gingerbread I think some people call it. The hoods over the windows are really quite unique and vertical board and batten was a really common Finnish detail for Gothic Revival houses. Houses this one has a horizontal like a flush sheathing on the boards on the bottom. What is your house is all vertical all it's it's very yeah Peter lives at the Cliff Cottage [1:19:13] Peter Keebler: Basically but in the back it's you know the vertical board yeah [1:19:18] Mike Poland: So they even kept the color isn't your place pretty much gray it's the same color [1:19:25] Peter Keebler: Difference here is that they've done the dark gray accentuation of the over the windows oh yeah [1:19:30] Mike Poland: Yeah beautiful so another one kind of a forgotten Gothic Revival house up on State Street. This was part of our most recent phase four survey. This house of was it maybe it was in a previous one but anyway it's identified as one of your historic sites. This building it's called the Wing Car the Car Wing Estate. The really interesting thing I think about this house amongst the roof details that are very cool is the barge boards here look like I don't know they're oversized they're almost Cartoon-like, you know, they certainly get your attention. It's kind of playful, the way that this was done. The house had a lot more interesting details that are kind of been lost because of the way the sighting was put on it. But if you look at that door in the underneath that bay window, there's a door going into the house, and you can see the detail of that trim which comes to a point up above it. That's a classic gothic revival detail. These are, this is really quite special architecture. It's struggling because nobody's been in it for so long. The interiors in this, if you've ever been [1:20:39] Rebecca Krupke: in it, are gorgeous, just gorgeous. The hospital owns it, right? Yeah, okay. So I've only been on the [1:20:47] Mike Poland: part like for the office there was, yes, and then in the back corner there was actually like a child care addition was put on it. 's not, it's nothing significant, but is it empty now? Yeah, it's been vacant for 20 years now. Not good. Vacancy is not real good for buildings, keep in buildings. This house has a really interesting story to it in that it did not survive here on Pine Street, which is where it's located today. This was actually, I think, on Adams Street a couple blocks over. It was going to be demolished because something else was going on, and Bob Kelly and Suzanne Kelly took it upon themselves, the initiative, to save this house. So they essentially carefully put steel beams underneath it, lifted it off its old foundation, rebuilt the foundation over here, as you can see, even with Granite pieces from the original house to look like the original, and set it down a few blocks away and save this house. It's gothic revival in a very interesting way. The window is a square cut, but look at the panel details up above that go to a point. That's just so cool. And then they have a quadrifoil, which is a church detail, window detail up here in the peak, but a classic, Gothic Revival. That's a Gothic Revival satellite dish too up there. So I don't know if you guys know Reese Perkins, but Reese used to be on this commission. Reese owns a house which I think I've got in this truck, which is italian eight, it's up near the stamp height. So this style, it was borrowed from italy We're still borrowing styles from around the world, and it has heavy bracket work to support the soffits. It may have a cupola on the top, and no pointed windows. These are arch top windows, and oftentimes they're paired. So the one on the right, the left, is more of an urban kind of a style. We don't have so much, we do have some of the villa styles in Italianate and Bangor. And that's the house that Reese Perkins owns, which is up near the standpipe as you're coming up Highland Street. And just imagine the view. One of the highest points in Bangor, and you go up to that cupola on the top, and looking out that, you'll probably be able to see forever. It's just a beautiful house. He's painted it a really nice color. It's kind of a mint green right now. But look at you. Everything's arched top. You have arched top, segmented arched top windows. You have double arched top windows in the front. All of the entry around the entry vestibule arch top, but also note that the dormer on the top, it's got an arch top on it. That's really special. This is quite a special house, and this house is Russ Harrington's house, which is Italianate in that the roof is supported by strong back bracket work, and oftentimes when you see that sort of a detail, even though these porches were probably not original to the house, were added later, they seem to fit very nicely that strong gable expression and the bracket work makes it an Italianate. This house, you may know who lives there or used to live here, and I do this talk for the school kids, and they all raise their hand at the same time because they all recognize this as Stephen King's house. But it was really the Arnold house, so-called, around 1835, I think it was 1850, and the original house was really just the tower and the block that it attaches to. That was it originally. You can see a turret was added on the left, that conical roof on it. That turret is a Queen Anne style, and then the port cochere and the porches were added, and that's a colonial revival style. So we have a mixture of several styles here, but the Arnold house, the original house, the block and the tower, were based on Andrew Jackson Downing's book on pattern houses and almost verbatim taken from that. So you can see the house has grown over the years a little bit, really unique, and again here, if you look closely, you can see the horizontal sheathing boards again we talked about last time. That the wood that was being used in these houses was significantly stronger than anything we've got at today, because it was original prime cut wood and the grains was very tight. So they can go down and they can lay flat for, you know, 200 years without, as long as they're tended to. They've tried to do this on replacements using modern wood lately, and you see that it buckles in about three years. It's pretty much shot, it's gone, nothing like this. So this was actually laid out to look like kind of like stonework. I don't know if the house would have been painted in a gray kind of a daub to look like stone, but it could have been in this style. We borrowed the second Empire style, we borrowed, and Banger has a lot of these houses. This is a mansard roof, and where you basically bring the roof down a whole story to kind of de-emphasize the house and bring it down closer to the ground. The mansard roofs were very popular in France and we borrowed that. We do have some of these high style houses like this with Towers and work in the slate. You can see in the slate work, Matthew, you've probably seen a lot of these where they have patterned geometric shapes to cut in a slate, very few. Yeah, so here's one up in your neighborhood. I think it was George Worf may have been the architect. George Worf did some, was it, okay, because it's it's it's like a pattern house book that we've been able to find a pattern from a book. But this roof, if you look at the different and the top shows different shapes that you could have in the roof, shapes of second empire. This one happens to be straight, but you see what they do, they just basically take the stud wall and they tip it back, right, that's essentially what they've done, and then they develop this opportunity for glorious window trim details like you see, and there's bracket work on these as well. This house is really important, this is the Blake house up on Court Street, and look closely and you can see that in these, or if you ride by it take a look, the horizontal rusticated siding on this was again in wood, but then they cut vertical incised edges so that it looks very much like stone blocks, one right after the other stacked up. This was designed by Calvin Ryder, who was a very important architect in Maine history, worked out of Bangor, did some beautiful houses down in Belfast, big high style houses. But this has what's called a bell dormer, you can see, because this roof is concave, and I don't know if that's slate or not, Matthew, but I think it was slate [Nathaniel King: Slate, but how] they were able to do a curve, you know what I mean, a sloped curve in a roof in slate is just kills me because the stuff is not really that flexible, right? So here we see double brackets might be teamed up, you see the use of in this house a lot of arches at the entrance, ovals for windows, the arch top dormers, it's a really nice counter to the rest of the blocky squareness of the house, very special. And this is one that's a bit like that, I think has some patterned slate in it, but it may not be colored differently, it's just laid out in patterns. This house must have had an enormous view, a glorious view from up in that top of the tower, and the tower is looking down onto Davenport Park. That's where this is located on First Street. So this house and the one next door I kind of call siblings because they look like they were probably done about the same time with a lot of the same detailing there. We do walking tours through here, and this neighborhood is getting a little bit tougher than it used to be, so I'm not sure these houses are being kept up quite as well as they might have been at one time. Enough said, this is next to Stephen King's house, they bought it, and you can see that again this is George Orff's design work, he has a tower in the front gate facade and it goes up to a widow's walk at the top, there'll probably be a hatch up there where you could climb out and get onto that roof. I was in Doug Boss's shop, cabinet shop, holding cabinet, they were rebuilding, building these dormers, they rebuilt them all in a solid mahogany, which was a good choice. Well there's a detail where the back of that trim in the front meets the slate coming on the side of it and there's a piece about as thick as my finger that's of molding that's designed to look like a rope, it's actually carved out to look like rope. Who is ever going to see that? 's amazing, that's the highest level of detail that they would put into houses like this, like you would, I don't think anyone other than Doug, he had it all laid out in pieces and he's like and I got to rebuild all of these things, so but look at this also in the back you can see a another transitional Queen Anne style dorm turret was brought in as the house was changed over the years, but again that's flush boarding, you can see some of the cuts, the vertical cuts in the siding. This is my favorite house in Bangor, so if anyone wants to take up a like a account where we can collect money so I can get it. That would be wonderful. This was Sophia Bragg. The Bragg family, as you know, N.H. Bragg and that family has a long history of supporting Bangor with business. And it was written in her name to be ownership of the house for whatever reason. So it's the Sophia Bragg house. This is on West Broadway. Beautiful Second Empire house. You look at the slates on there. They're actually scalloped, look like fish scales. This is the highest level of detail that you can get. What I think I like about it is the fact that things stack vertically, and I'm kind of into that. So as long as things are balanced and stacked, that's just beautiful. And the house really still looks that good today. These photos were taken a while ago. The other thing to notice here is you see the doors going into it. The doors were often mahogany, very heavy mahogany, two and a quarter inches thick. So they had to have really strong hinges on these. The thing to notice, you could actually do a study just on the doors in some of the houses in Bangor. Fascinating. And this is just one style. I'm not sure that they, you would ever find two that looked exactly the same. But notice also what they did. They have a two over two pattern to the windows. That was because this style is trying to stress the vertical, the verticality of the house. So by doing that, you kind of lend that. So whenever you see a two over two, you may be looking at Second Empire and. every school kid's favorite architectural style is queen anne they love the queen anne because it's so funky and what it does is borrows from medieval castles basically as you can see they have turrets they have panels they have bay windows they have everything going all at the same time so it's sometimes a mishmash or a balancing of the masses of the building and this one which is up near the abraham lincoln school is really a beautiful example and they've really fixed it up nicely banger has Some very nice Queen. In this house on Union Street is kind of odd, but look at the shingle details. Some are sawtooth, some are wave patterns, some are scalloped. This is kind of a mixture, actually, of shingle and Queen Anne. But you also see a little bit of Stick style up in that gable where you see the radiating wood trim. So this is, this house is kind of stretching across several different styles. But what I love about this house is you see that big turret. It basically sets heavily above the entrance. Wall, so you're coming up that set of steps underneath this thing that feels like it's going to drop on your head. It's just powerful stuff, and I kind of like the way they've colored it in all these different vivid style. So very lovely house on Union Street. It was, I think it's shingles. Yeah, well, the red ones might be asphalt back on the carriage house and on the turret, but that the on the on Peter on that. Yeah, the one in the foreground that looks like cedar shingles, and this house was designed by C. Parker Kroll. And it's a lovely little house. It's got a lot going on. And the gambrel roof is actually a very smart idea because you gain more space on the interiors, just like you would store hay in a barn. You gain a lot more space in the bedrooms upstairs by doing that. But the level of detail, they have a bit of a turret above the entry and that sloping roof. Roof and the bay windows on each side, the front and the left side kind of replay the shape of the roof, you know. So he's done a lot with this very small house and the shingle style, which was very popular on the coast of Maine, which was stone and shingle used to build houses. See a lot of that detailing if you see a house that has windows that basically has muttons or grills in the top sash but not the bottom. That's called a cottage window. That may belong to the to the shingle style of houses. Shingle style is very popular. It's actually our first true American style that we're not borrowing from anybody anymore, starting a modern design. It's going to be our own. Even though this might not look modern, this is actually the transition into modern architecture. And here's a beautiful example up on State Street, up across from the church, I mean the hospital, and again that big gambrel roof which is carried out a little bit beyond this, the eaves, just a beautiful detail house any, and again look at the windows there, grills in the top sash only, and then the Queen Anne style, a couple of other pictures in Vanguard, the house next to Stephen King's on the left, that's the house next door, really quite beautiful. But what they were able to do here with massing is just lock pieces, big pieces of building mass together, and you see the interruption of this Palladian window in that big gable with an intersecting gable that just smashes into it, and that's okay, you can do that sort of thing. You've got Freedom now to kind of have fun with it. So they were, and the building on the upper right is on Hammond Street. That's just an interesting roof over the porch. It's basically almost a full circle. Wilfred Mancer. Mancer was just so talented. So the last style we're going to talk about is craftsman style. There's a few examples in our area of craftsmen. Craftsmen kind of expressed through craftsmanship what was special about the home. They might expose the structure out through the side, you know, of the cornice area. They might use stone and wood in expressive ways. It was kind of like a counter to the industrialization that was going on in the rest of the world. It's our chance to say, hey, we can still make things with our hands. Bangor has a couple of good ones. This is a classic up across from the cemetery on Ohio Street. Kind of Swiss style as well, but you see the knee brackets in the front that support the rafters. Rafters are exposed, so it's telling you something about how it's made and all of the ends the rafter ends are all exposed here along the porch that's and stone base very classic this house up on Somerset Street is really a craftsman that probably had an open porch at one time you see these tapered columns those were probably again that like that but they were covered up a bit with the with the windows that went in the rest of the houses this style is usually kind of low slung kind of fitting Into the landscape a little bit that's what they were trying to do in this house I don't know if that's Bangor but we'll say it is it's up towards VZ probably it's just a beautiful house and expressing that again the gable ends are all exposed gives a nice detail to it the base so I ask the school kids when I do this I say you see those little arch openings in the brick what do you think those are four and some kids will say for bow and arrow for I'm like no it's actually those were scuppers For the deck so the deck inside would get wet and saturated and the water would pitch to these outside scuppers very clever the as I understand it there's some beautiful tile work handmade tile work inside this house so the house next to it also is beautiful the stone house so craftsman style there were some Sears houses Sears made Sears and Roebuck made house kits that you could buy in 1834 I think this house was sold for 1870 it would arrive by train all the pieces were cut numbered all your builder had to do is put them together. So this was called the Velonia. Actually, Banger has a Velonia up on Pine Street next to the Broadway Park. If you're ever in that neighborhood, look around. It's painted kind of a bold green right now. And that floor plan that you see there really doesn't tell you, it doesn't really describe how very small it feels inside. Because I've been in that house and it looks big and spacious here in the rendering, but inside those rooms are pretty small. So but still a lovely house. There were pattern houses and Emerson Jones at our office is very much into pattern book houses. He's been collecting Chopel especially. He's got all of his stuff. Oh, there's the house right there. So the next time you're riding around Broadway, take a look at that house. That is the Sears house. There's many other styles of that. So I thought I'd close with just a couple of terminologies. We oftentimes hear things like tonight, we had the applicant talking a little bit about the cornice of the building. So the classical architecture that he was referring to, you see in this on the lower left, basically is three parts. There's a cornice, there's a frieze board, and there's the architrave below that. So those three pieces supported by columns are a really powerful part in a statement of the Greek revival style of house, especially. And if you go back and look at ancient Greece architecture, you'll see these components elements expressed in slightly different ways but they're pretty powerful. The brief of the number 11 preservation brief that you see in the upper left is on this one happens to be on rehabilitating historic storefronts. You guys should all know that there's about 51 of these preservation briefs that you can download for free. Go to the National Park Service and type in preservation briefs, it'll take you to any of those. It covers things like how to deal with masonry slate roofs, some things that we've been into in the past, how you should paint the outside of a woodhouse, all kinds of stuff, replacement windows. The other thing that we get into is window and window terminologies. So when someone comes in with a potential replacement window, one of the things that commissions need to be aware of is the size of the glass. Size of the glass is critical to the look of the window. If they're coming in with a window That has a really beefy frame and then a beefy sash, and you're losing like four and a half inches all around that window. Your glass size is being significantly reduced. So Maine Historic Preservation Commission tells us that we should be very sensitive to any change in the glass size. So in order to do that, there are some windows like, I will say, let's say Marvin windows. Marvin windows will come back in with a historic window that actually matches an original wood window in size and profile. Pella has the same thing, and now Anderson does. But when you see a big beefy chunky vinyl window come in, and you need to see that standing up next to that illustration right there and see what they're doing. So in concluding, I just wanted to share with you, we used to be at, once our office was at 175 Broadway, which is where Vance Gray's office was up there, wonderful guy. I think he sold the building, but when Vance was restoring this front portico part, he basically had a really good contractor come in and do the work, and this is a, these are character defining features of this house. This was a George Orff design. Orff was famous for his details, trim. So they did it in mahogany, which you can see here. So that would last a lot longer than what was there, but they matched it, they measured it, they matched all of the exact dimensions. And when I talk about, when we talk about character defining features, these are those things that if they're lost, there's a significant loss in the history, the story of the history of the place. So your ordinance basically says the removal of historic materials or alterations of features and spaces that characterize the property shall be avoided. That's, that's it. I'm exhausted. Excellent. Well, I hope you can tell I love this stuff. So you wouldn't have guessed, but do you have anything you wanted to go over? I don't on this agenda item, but thank you guys. I think you're doing really good work now, and I've been with the commission for many years, and before, I don't think that they took the time to go through things as articulately as you guys have been doing it and expressing what it is that's positive or negative about an application. That's what you have to do, so good work. Well, we can't do it without everybody. Oh, I'm sure there'll be somebody that follows me. [1:43:29] Nathaniel King: So the next item on the agenda is the discussion about NAPC historic trades webinar. I believe that is Mr. Matt. Oh, yeah. [1:43:54] Mike Poland: Is that the National Association or Alliance of? Yes, they do good training. [1:44:02] Speaker J (unidentified): Okay, so I'm just going to quickly go over the historic trade seminar I went to. I'm going to go over the panelists first and then just some key takeaways. So I'll just go through the list of them. Molly Baker, she was a manager at Hope Crew for the National Trust for Historic Preservation. So what they do is they find a vacant historic building and they go into it and they restore it as a community effort. So they have a pretty big outreach effort, and then they'll go in with the community and restore it. Emily Evans is the director of operations and communication for the Preservation Action. So one of the biggest things that she did, she at a federal level, she goes to lawmakers and just promotes laws like the tax credit that you can get for historic restoration. And she also went over some things she's seen in different communities that they do. do. So she's seen Q&A forums on the city websites, just going over some frequently asked questions. And another thing I thought she was interesting that she saw was find a contractor page. So since we wouldn't be able to actually recommend contractors, they have kind of a portal where citizens can go in and they could say which ones they've used and which ones they've had good experiences with. The next one is Natalie Henshaw. She was the Director of Historic Trades at the Campaign for Historic Trades. This is really kind of just a networking consultant group kind of. They have some pop-up workshops that they go to cities and just promote historic trades. A big one that they did was some window restoration. So they just have a same kind of community event where they just restore something that was historical. Next one is Kathy Rodriguez. She's the deputy historic preservation officer at San Antonio. So they have a pretty big historic preservation department. They actually have a trades academy with that they're partnered with other trade schools where they specifically teach historic trades. The next one was Robert Yap. He's a historic tradesman. And he kind of just went over the difficulties that the industry is facing right now with lack of trades people and the curve it takes to get a return on investment if they do hire someone else who's new. Overall tips just from the panel support workforce development for trades. Think of partners outside of preservation, so like the city of San Antonio where they partnered with a trade school that was already established and added a program specific to historic trades. And then again, it's a big investment for contractors to hire someone new with no experience. It's around six years for them to see a return on investment there. And then just some other resources that they went over. I think the biggest one was PreserveList.org. You can go into their website, you could sort it by the specific trade that you're looking for, and you could support it by the state, or sort it by the state, and it will give you a big list of anyone who's available. Preserve list.org and then there's another one it's a big link but it's on the agenda or the packet and they show throughout the nation historic trade academies and places that offer them and there is one in Maine for metal working in Lewiston. If you have any questions about it I [Katie Coe: could it] was just a webinar it was NAPC it was one of their monthly ones that they do [1:48:06] Lisa Goodwin: I just wanted to mention, too, that I sent some of the materials that Matt had gone from this webinar to our economic development division. Just kind of briefly mentioned, you know we do have a lack of people in historic trades, and big guitar economic development officer was actually going to go to our workforce development board the region's workforce First Development Board and talk about that so I wanted to put that out there yeah [1:48:59] Mike Poland: thank you [1:49:00] Nathaniel King: Matthew that was thanks Matt very helpful and the next agenda item is follow-up items from last [1:49:09] Lisa Goodwin: meeting yes so you all had requested that we do quarterly special meetings so looking at the calendar some upcoming dates we have that are potential opportunities are April 2nd 16th or 30th so just wanted to put that out there for whichever you would prefer for that April 2nd 16th and 30th they're all Thursdays so it'll be the same time and day of the week and what would be doing there do you want me to be there it's up to you I think the intent of the special meeting was just to have discussion about you know process things that the commission can do [1:49:57] Peter Keebler: Yeah, okay, be happy to be part of that. The things we've talked about that aren't, haven't been specifically answering an applicant or whatever, right? How do we, yeah, move forward? [1:50:09] Mike Poland: Well, we at the end of all of our, excuse me, at the end of all of our surveys there's usually recommendations to pursue. So if we bundle those all together, at some point you say how do we attack these? Yeah, exactly, yeah. So any preference on a [1:50:27] Peter Keebler: date? 16 to 30th, all April, right? Yeah. [1:50:50] Katie Coe: 15, 16, yeah, that's fine. Any objection to the 16th? I think so. Okay, we'll work on getting that scheduled right at 7 p.m. 7 p.m., yep. [1:51:06] Lisa Goodwin: And then second, we did discuss the potential with the parks and rec director for locally listing Chapin Park, Broadway Park, and Davenport Park, and he was very much on board with that. So just wanted to throw that out there. The next step would be what we did for the Haces Main stages, and yes, you all would make the recommendation to council and the council would approve it. I think we do also need to bring it to the business and economic development committee as well before we take it through the formal process. Well, that's great. Okay, all right, let me just make a note real quick here. And then we had requested some help from you all if you were amenable at the last meeting to help draft like social media posts on historic preservation tidbits in the city, and then help draft some information to add to the website on historic preservation, like things on architectural styles. I do also plan to try to get Mike's presentation here and add that to the website, but just want to check in on that, see if [1:52:16] Katie Coe: anybody's had time to think about those things, what sort of format. I mean, a bigger piece, [1:52:24] Peter Keebler: what should it look like? I mean, in terms of structuring something, you mean the social media poster? Yeah, I don't do social media, so I'm not sure what it's supposed to look like. [1:52:33] Lisa Goodwin: Well, the Bengal Historical Society does some really cool social posts, so I was thinking something that kind of try to do what they do and just highlight like a really interesting tidbit that people might find interesting and highlight our historic districts and sites. We typically want things to be brief because people don't like to read a lot of text and like to throw a picture in there that's interesting. So how brief are we talking, a couple, I mean, I've seen [1:53:01] Rebecca Krupke: sentences. Yes, a few sentences, really? Yeah, okay, they can have like micro learning, right? [1:53:10] Matthew R. Weitkamp: Okay, yeah, I don't do social media either, but I can put something together. Okay, that's fine. [1:53:16] Lisa Goodwin: we just need like a draft and an email that we can work on posting there's also [1:53:20] Nathaniel King: like Preservation Month, I think is May, and then like for Maine, Archaeology Month is in October. Okay, so that's chances too that we can highlight different things, yeah, on some of [1:53:33] Lisa Goodwin: those months too. When is Jane's Walk? Yep, good point. I was gonna announce that at the next meeting because we're still ironing out the details somewhat, but we are doing two Jane's Walks on May 4th to highlight, it's traditionally to highlight Jane Jacobs and her work on cities, but we use it to also highlight, you know, historic aspects of Bangalore. The first walk we're doing, Nate is actually leading and he's going to talk about the waterfront and our maritime history and Revolutionary War history there. And then there's going to be another walk led by Emily Burnham and Downtown Bangalore Partnership that will highlight more of the downtown part of the city. And tentatively we'll be doing Nate's flock at noon and then we'll be doing the other walk at 10 a.m. that day. Is that May 4th? May 4th. Oh, I'm sorry, it's whichever Saturday is first Saturday of May. I don't know which date that is. Second? May 2nd. Okay, but once we get those more details has ironed out we will. No, you could just show up. Where's, where do you show up again? Working out the detail, I don't know yet, but I will have that at your April [1:54:53] Matthew R. Weitkamp: at your April meeting. I'll learn about boats. Yeah, cool. I think some posts leading up to that [1:54:59] Lisa Goodwin: would be a really, yes, yeah, yes. We're, we're definitely going to do some outreach. That's really exciting. Yeah, we usually get a pretty good turnout. So we are still working on the draft ordinance changes. We are still waiting on the state, and so we're going to bring that back to your April meeting. I think we're also going to insert some changes to the demolition section because some questions came up about that recently and it doesn't seem to really align with the standard that communities do, so we're going to look into that more. And we also for your packet, I don't know if you saw, but we included the previous architectural surveys that were done. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. And that's all I had. [1:55:52] Peter Keebler: Thank you. Just a comment, I was one of the people receiving your letter to an owner of historical property. I thought it was really well done. Thanks. Thank you, Matt. Yeah, I mean the links and other things, I mean, the others really, yeah, and we've gotten a [1:56:09] Lisa Goodwin: Few calls actually from people that I guess didn't know they were in a historic district or site and had some questions, and one person in particular was interested in the historic tax credits for [1:56:18] Katie Coe: helping them do work. So good coming, always good, it's working. Yeah, I know, yeah, get them doing [1:56:25] Nathaniel King: doing things. All right, well, if there's nothing else on the agenda and hearing no objections, I will close this meeting using my one power returned.