Lewiston Council Approves $250K Loan for Coliseum Acquisition

[1:38] Carl L. Sheline: Hello, welcome to our 6 p.m. Tuesday special meeting. We're going to kick things off at the Pledge of Allegiance. Our madam clerk has graciously agreed to lead us. Thank you very much, madam clerk. We're joined here by Director Blaze. Please kick us off. [2:20] Bryan Kaenrath: thank you mr mayor good evening counselors sorry one second madam clerk agenda item [2:27] Carl L. Sheline: number one yes sir item number one to postpone indefinitely the order authorizing the financial guarantee agreement with Milltown Sports and Entertainment LLC for the acquisition of the Coliseum requested action to postpone indefinitely the order authorizing a financial guarantee agreement with Milltown Sports and Entertainment LLC for the acquisition of the Coliseum I have a motion please so move councillor Chisholm second by councillor nay jean discussion among the council public comment back to the council madam clerk please call the vote yes no I'm number two item number two order off I'm sorry order approving a two hundred fifty thousand dollar loan for Milltown sports and entertainment requested action to adopt the order approving a 250 000 loan for milltown sports and entertainment llc I have a motion. Please, so moved, Councillor Chittim. Second by Councillor Nagine. Now, Director Blaze, please kick us off. Thank you for your patience. [3:37] Bryan Kaenrath: thank you mr mayor council as you know we did go back to the you know the lending authority their current owner and we I think we bridged what we see is a really a better deal for the city in terms of risk and investment and I'm gonna go down through the background a little bit here again just to reacquaint everybody Middletown sports and entertainment is advancing a plan to acquire and continue to operate the Coliseum as a regional hub for sports entertainment community programming the proposed ownership in operating structures supported by a combination of private financing and limited public investment designed to mitigate municipal risk while enabling the continued continuation and growth of this key community asset in addition to its economic role this acquisition will secure critical existing community uses to include ongoing parking for Lewiston public schools for the surrounding fields continued access for local high school hockey programs a required parking for the Trees Tree Street development project that has some secured some CDS funding and preserve the flexibility for additional future community and civic uses. This puts the city in the seat to have these accessories of the building itself with the $250,000 loan. The financial structure the proposed transaction includes T&M investment loans will provide a loan of 2.65 million dollars to Milltown Sports Entertainment. As part of the financing T&M investments has agreed to waive the requirement for a formal appraisal reflecting the confidence in the project and the underlying asset. The BOV that we generated for this last meeting for this group really was the catalyst to that discussion. So they're willing to do that. The seller financing, Dr. Daryl Antiochi, will carry the $2 million note as part of the purchase. This note will be secured by the property owner and will not require any city guarantee, thereby limiting municipal exposure. So the whole backing up the note or cosigning the note any of that is gone away and they went from 1.4 million now to 2 million. So the city of Lewiston's loan participation includes a 250,000 dollar loan to the project structured as follows: 14 years a 0% interest rate and we have the funding source through the economic reserve account. This participation again is intended to serve as a gap financing tool to support project feasibility while maintaining a conservative risk profile for the city and continued community use and relationship building. City staff understands the financial concerns but recommend approval for the following reasons. Staff and council were aware that the request should be considered effectively unsecured loan second to Milltown's personal property security agreement which is in the packet. The Milltown Sports and Entertainment Group has demonstrated success in its Boston location while this request is for effectively a separate Enterprise. The group's collective institutional knowledge talent and profitable experience to date are notable. Their presence in investment in the city that this last year also needs to be recognized. The Coliseum is an iconic structure and the value should be preserved while continuing to deteriorate with time without service and use and investment. An injection of a capital and the reuse have already brought 3.9 million in investment over the last few years which has favorably benefited the use of the ring if the two choices Are to be given to this group a chance, a give the group a chance versus let the building continue to decline. Staff will recommend giving the group a chance. Three, securing again, you know, this sounds very repetitive, but community uses, hockey, parking, concerts, intrinsic value, the value add, people spending any money in the city, these are all important pieces. The current broker opinion of value plus personal property puts the total value at 4.85 million. The current building has good value and we don't want to lose that. We just don't want to lose that value. The LQC committee after consideration the loan, the LQC meaning the loan qualification committee after consideration voted loaded in favor of the loan with the condition that the utility bills are up to date with the city, which has been checked, and the property information verification form was provided in your packet. Staff did a return on investment analysis, including two scenarios that bring payback to between four and seven years, which really is closer to six years using the more conservative serve of approach, utilizing the combination of the loan payments for Milltown sports and tax payments in the calculation with the assumed assessed value remaining stable with active use and value. Again, the requested action, consider the staff presentation, the information included in your packet when making your decision on the loan application for 250,000 with the term of 14 years at zero percent interest rate funded through monies through the economic reserve account. More than willing to answer any questions. Thank you. Yes, questions, comments from counselors? [9:50] Joshua L. Nagine: Counselor and aging the in the right to accelerate number four listed inspections, and so we can ask that the loan be paid prepaid paid immediately upon inspections. Could you speak to that for a second? I don't, I don't really understand the, it's in the terms of the under the statement of terms and conditions page one, so it's under 3a and b between right to accelerate and use of funds. So in the, I apologize, it's my mistake, I was assuming that right to accelerate part of that was inspections. It's just stating that you'll do inspections. Okay. [10:53] Bryan Kaenrath: The collateral on this loan is personal prop, the personal property inside the building. [11:01] Joshua L. Nagine: Personal property inside the building, which is currently assessed at, currently right now it's [11:07] Bryan Kaenrath: Six hundred and eighty thousand dollars according to the assessors. We devalued it at a half a million and would we be the primary lien holder on the second? We're the second element. Who is the first? It'd be the current owner. [11:30] Michael R. Roy: Can you just ask them now? Yeah so the loan [11:36] Joshua L. Nagine: qualification committee, how many members are there? [11:44] Bryan Kaenrath: There's one, two, three, four, five members. Okay and was it a unanimous support? No it was not. What was the vote? The vote was three versus one, three versus one and one abstention. Yeah one excused. Again that information's in your in your packet. [12:19] Scott A. Harriman: Counselor thank you and thanks for presenting. So I 'm also a member of the loan qualification committee. I wasn't able to make it to the meeting but I emailed the group and said that I would have also voted no on it. I did have some questions on so this is under the operations agreement and you had mentioned that our security is the personal property in the operations agreement section H security. It says loans will require an acceptable security instrument such as a mortgage and I wonder if there is how come we're not getting a mortgage or anything more like a little more substantial than the [13:09] Bryan Kaenrath: personal property. The owners they're not they're not willing to do it. We'd be third and we'd be third in line to do that so this was our only option to have any other teeth versus to go fully unsecured loan. So I thought this was I think our best step forward in with this particular situation and [13:30] Scott A. Harriman: so on that in that operations agreement where it says loans will require an acceptable security instrument such as a mortgage is this is this is yeah this is acceptable yep okay. I had some other questions about the about the operations agreement so in part k it says that the repayment will begin upon completion of the construction phase or six months after the closing date whichever comes first. There's no there's no construction [14:07] Bryan Kaenrath: so that's not no that doesn't apply. I think that has to be a further edit that has to continue before the closing occurs. So when does repayment begin? Repayment begins after [14:20] Scott A. Harriman: the first month. Okay yeah at the end of month one. Yeah so has our legal council reviewed [14:28] Bryan Kaenrath: reviewed these? It has they have reviewed it. I you know there's still some suggestions about signature the city administrator being a signature. I think you just pointed out another one. I think there has to be some additional combing of the of the documents but they have they have had review. [14:46] Scott A. Harriman: So they have had review, but they need more review, I believe. So yep, I think we're going to [14:51] Bryan Kaenrath: read through it one more time and make sure that everything's good. We always do that before FOR CLOSINGS IS ALWAYS FINAL EDITS AT THE END. THIS IS PRETTY TYPICAL FOR CLOSING DOCUMENTS THAT THE CITY ADMINISTERS. OKAY, THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT FOR NOW. FURTHER QUESTIONS? COUNCILOR CHIDDOM? YES. [15:11] David B. Chittim: THANK YOU COLLECTOR LABELLE HAS INDICATED THERE'S A 90 NEARLY 9400 OVER OVERDUE PAYMENT ON SEWER and water did i hear you say that 's been taken care of as of today so counselor chairman [15:30] Bryan Kaenrath: you have the same question I did, so I'm, I'm happy that you're asking that one, because I tend to get excited about things like this when I receive them. My staff gives them to me, but so the, so the balance owed, they have, they have a payment agreement established. So there's the no at 9300, but then they have a payment agreement established, which we acknowledged that in the last meeting, and then that means that they're, they're still considered in good standing. So yes, the answer is yes, they still owe 9 300, but the answer is they've been in good standing with their payment agreement, so they have been paying their payments. Okay, so there's another tweak that [16:17] David B. Chittim: NEEDS TO BE MADE TO THESE VARIOUS DOCUMENTS WHEN IT GOES THROUGH LEGAL, BECAUSE THERE IS A VERY CLEAR STATEMENT SOMEWHERE IN THE FIVE DOCUMENTS THAT WE REVIEWED THAT NO LOAN SHOULD BE ISSUED UNTIL ALL PAYMENTS, UNTIL ALL UTILITIES AND TAXES AND FEES HAVE BEEN PAID. SO THAT NEEDS TO BE FIXED IN THE LEGAL EASE WHEN IT GOES THROUGH THE SECOND REVIEW. OKAY, COULD I ASK YOU DIRECTOR blaze TO GO THROUGH THE IN THE ROI, THE RATE OF RETURN, RATE OF A RATE OF AN INVESTMENT RETURN ON INVESTMENT, AND EXPLAIN HOW that works? Essentially we're loaning a quarter million dollars and it's going to be paid off and they're going to be benefits due to taxes. Is there the addition of personal and or real property to the current value aside from the revaluation? Will the, will the asset be improved as a result of this loan? So [17:30] Bryan Kaenrath: I think the I think the asset valuation would remain the same you know so the anticipated value according to assessing now it would be four point one million dollars which is considerable but that in that number was included as the proposed you know value and the current appraised value assessed value rather is the 1.792 so we can assume that number is gonna if as long as we have use and the building's not being buttoned up and is not you know turning the mold we're gonna at least maintain that amount so in this in this summary I would say that this is the this is the salesman's version this is me being optimistic and I'll be quite honest so what that means is that we really looked at straight across the board what is the value now using the $19 mill rate that's being suggested the nineteen point six eight across the board and did a difference in Delta so if we if that value came down or that's value gained rather and that's value sustained while we keep it in there we're all keeping the same picture that's forty six thousand dollars that we get every year in tax payment and then plus the payment the principal paid of 17 858 you know within four years again the return on investment is paid through taxes the payment of taxes and the payment of the of the loan payments that they make [19:19] David B. Chittim: each month okay I'm not certain that loan payments are actually counted as return on an investment and I do have a concern about using the proposed assessed value of 4.1 million and calling that a benefit of the loan when the current valuation is 1.79 yeah the only difference is if I'm hearing you correctly director the only difference is the revaluation of the property there has been no real value added to the building or the or the personal [19:56] Bryan Kaenrath: property no okay that's correct we're maintaining the value okay so then in that regard we took a very conservative approach and in my language to the council we took the evaluation today and that's really the difference and I think I explained this to you in an email but there's there's only twenty two thousand dollars left on the table there at that point if you take a very conservative approach and that brings the return on an investment and again I would think of as an investment because We're getting that, we're getting value back to the community. I don't know how we can't see that as an investment in value. I mean, there's just so many tangible values I could write a book about it, but 22,000, so the return at that point is less than seven years. So if we look at, if I look, I put my old government hat on, working for the feds and for the military, anything under seven years was a good, was a good investment in terms of purchasing for military construction dollars. This is a benchmark that I could give to you, that I could do mathematically to show you that this is, this is worth the city's time in the city's effort, and that's [21:12] David B. Chittim: just my best effort. I appreciate that. I think you and I agree that this is a salesman's version. We can, we can certainly agree on that, and I don't question at all the intangible assets and the value that this project will bring to the city. I think my beef is trying to quantify that with numbers. So I will, I will accept this is the salesman's version. I will accept that there are benefits that are intangible and perhaps immeasurable to the city, and we'll just leave it at that. [21:44] Bret Martel: further comments counselor martel yes thank you mr mayor and thank you for your presentation throughout this you've been great to communicate with and i think you're doing a great job conveying the information that's in front of me so thank you the deeper we go into this pro the deeper we go into this project the more questions i have and the more concerned i get so i 'm looking at this as an entirely unsecured 250 000 loan because we're talking about depreciating equipment that has to in say it gets defaulted and we go to collect 500 or 600k worth of assets, you said so resold, what, maybe two, 250 on the used market, and we're second in line for that. It's not compelling collateral in my eyes. I also share Counselor Chittum's feelings about returned taxes being used as payment or looked at is a return on investment. I feel like a lot of that is going to, they're going to be there anyway. We're using successful past business ventures as credibility to loan this money, and it just seems like at every point along the way this project has been at risk of falling apart if the city didn't step in and do something, and at first it was 1.4 and now it's, is this two and 250,000 critical to the program? Is this gonna, is this whole thing coming crashing [23:14] Bryan Kaenrath: Down still if he doesn't get this 250 grand, I don't, I don't know if I can answer that question correctly. I don't, I don't know, okay, I don't know, like I don't know that answer. I think that again, I think the most important piece is that this gives us a seat, you know, if they go 100% private, this gives us a seat again to the use of the parking lot for public school programs. This gives us a seat to have local hockey programming at this location. It helps an additional local project in their parking and then any of the other community uses and civic uses that are down the road I think that 's really I think that those are the biggest pieces I think that they'll be there may be repercussions if we back out and then call say continues on their own and they find their own financing we may be we may be at a loss for some of the community uses that are currently going on there I just I do want to be clear on that and on the record of that so is that what you expect him to do if he has to get this financing somewhere else? I again, I can't speak to him. I'm not gonna speak for, you know, Nate Bostic or Milltown sports, but I can, I can tell [24:39] Bret Martel: you that I've heard it. Interesting, why is it he isn't here to answer these questions? [24:50] Bryan Kaenrath: He's out, he's, he, 's out raising monies for his program. He's, he's recruiting kids. He's on the road, so this is the time of the year that he recruits players and connects with families to, you know, really bring up the Academy and get kids to come here. Okay. [25:14] Bret Martel: That's all the questions I have for now. I have some comments, but I will, I'll hold them at the moment. Thank you [25:21] Carl L. Sheline: very much, John. You're welcome to director Blaze's point. Yes, if the city had no involvement whatsoever, I don't know why they would let us use their parking lot for free, but like make zero a sentence for that. Further questions, comments from counselors before we go to public comment? [25:41] Scott A. Harriman: Council Ironman. Thank you. Has this loan, has there been any underwriting or other analysis of this [25:48] Bryan Kaenrath: loan? Yes, there has, there, that was done by my previous predecessor that wasn't shared with me. I did touch base with them, CCI, they didn't provide anything in writing, but I think it was going to come out to be a negative. I'll be honest with you, it was going to come out to be a negative recommendation. I can say that other projects have had negative recommendations, had negative recommendations from the loan qualification committee, negative recommendation from the underwriting and others, and the council still voted in favor so that being said I there wasn't really any information to share so and that's you know that 's that's that I haven't received anything officially in writing [26:44] Scott A. Harriman: So okay, and then just a couple more questions about the documents, so in the in the loan agreement section 9 record-keeping, it says they have to maintain records for a period of seven years following the loan closing, but it's 14 year loan, so shouldn't that be at least 14 if not, so that's it, yeah I [27:10] Bryan Kaenrath: think that's an IRS statement, so seven years for those statements, that's what they need to keep for IRS stuff, so it has to be the last seven years of each of those statements, so okay, at year eight you can get your word of year one, at year nine you get rid of year two. [27:31] Scott A. Harriman: Okay, and then in the job creation agreement there are two attachments, attachment A and attachment B, in attachment B it says the imp this employer has received funding from the City of Lewiston's commercial rehabilitation loan program, the funding for this program comes from the United States Department of Housing and Urban Development, but I thought that this loan was, I thought this program was funded through the TIFF revenue, yeah and that again that has to be edited. [28:05] Bryan Kaenrath: That's that's not correct, okay, we held on to those documents because we wanted again we wanted to hold something tangible to Milltown Sports in terms of creating jobs, I mean that I could have highlighted that in the presentation, but that's something that it's going to be in the loan, that's something we're going to follow up on, it does create it does create some local jobs, some permanent jobs, so that is something that we inserted in there, so we will we will clean that up. [28:37] Scott A. Harriman: Okay, my concern is just that this hasn't been reviewed again, it has, it's had legal review. [28:45] Bryan Kaenrath: i think it has to be as it has to be thoroughly reviewed again i'm not i understand council harriman that there has to be some fixes here but i 've learned from my experiences we have a timeline we've got to submit what we can submit it had one review we've been correcting in these since then we're not going to share that with council let's if the council says go ahead and move forward with this you know we're going to have corrected documents we're not going to be referencing cdbg Documents, that's the baseline language, that form is, that's a CDBG form, and we're converting it again to have a little bit more teeth and more say in the 250,000 note as we don't. I'll agree with you, I'm not going to sit here and disagree, agree with you on that, but they, the truth is we're looking for any way for the city to be a part of it, to have a say, to have that involvement, and make sure that they follow up on that so [29:49] Scott A. Harriman: We're trying to get something back to the city. Yeah, I understand that, I'm just concerned that, you know, it keeps coming to a vote for the council and then it's not, I'm not aware, I'm [30:04] Bryan Kaenrath: Not aware of all finalized legal documents being prepared prior to a council meeting ever. I'm supplying more information than any other director in my seat has ever presented. I've went back and looked and there's none of this information has ever been, ever been, and you know, given to the council to review. This is in addition, you know, I just wanted to try to be as upfront and so you could have a real baseline understanding of what we're, you know, what we're making them go through and again it's It's informative. I'd be happy to share with the final signed documents with council, we could certainly do that. [30:51] Carl L. Sheline: Thank you director, thank you. Anything further counselor Herman? That's it, thanks. We're now having public comment for this agenda. I'm sure there be any public comment and now we're back to us. I'll just say a few words here. Yes, I understand director what you're saying and it makes sense. This is gonna, you know, once we had to find or once we finally get a, you know, I'm what I'm hopeful is an affirmative vote for this, it will head to legal to button up, you know, the concerns that have been raised in Terms of the legal documents, you know, are beyond our pay grade and I'm sure the council will, you know, our corporation council will be able to, get everything in order. Yeah, and I understand that there's a risk to this, to this loan, I but I understand your point completely, that gives us access to the building and then You know, I am concerned that the Colisei doesn't move forward at all without this and I realize Nate's not here, too, I'm sorry. Mr. Bostic is not here to speak to that. Can you explain, you know, is this money being, you what is this? [32:10] Bryan Kaenrath: 250,000 being used for, can you speak to that for a second? This is the, this is the down payment essentially, this is part of the closing, would be part of the closing note, okay, so this [32:22] Carl L. Sheline: Having heard that, it is very unlikely that this deal is moving forward without this. [32:29] Bryan Kaenrath: Again, I don't know, I don't know, I do want it, I did want the city to be part of this, again for the community benefit piece, and understood, you know, I don't know for sure, I think that could shift with, you know, with T M investments in the, you know, in play, their pockets are deep, they have a lot of private equity, they could certainly raise 250 000 without blinking an eye, but you know, I don't want to, I don't want to assume anything, and I just, I do want to understand the position, I think that the city has, we lose a lot of, a lot of partnership, we lose a lot of opportunity, you know, we're economic and community development, this is really the community side, this is a community investment, I can't say that enough, our community dollars are going down and down, cdbg home funds, you know, after we, I'm going to go off tangent but [33:36] Carl L. Sheline: You know, for a second, please. [33:40] Bryan Kaenrath: But yeah, I'll just own it at that. No. [33:44] Carl L. Sheline: Yeah, I just to the council. I urge it or I mean, I understand that there's risks to this but I think there's a Greater risk if this deal does not go forward and the call state is not a continue to exist as we've come to expect it Councilor long champs. Did you have your hand up? Yes [34:02] Susan G. Longchamps: Thank you for presenting again, I think that it was very smart of them to continue with financing, and I think it's great that they were able to pull together, do I think that they could probably figure this out to the $250,000 ask, most likely, but I do think, just as you've shared, director, that you know, the city having some involvement is important for many reasons, so I do thank you for that, and it is unfortunate, I feel like this is the first loan that the city's ever done without all of this back and forth, so I am definitely in support of it, I'm glad that they were able to come up with the financing, if it were me having to deal with all of this. He's a humble man because I wouldn't even ask the city for this, but I am in favor of it. Thank you. [35:13] Michael R. Roy: Councillor Roy. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you for bringing this forward again, doing all the hard work that you've done. I too am in favor of supporting this, only because I think, you know, the Coliseum has been there for many, years. There's been a lot of kids that have been through there, and again, we need more stuff in the city for kids, youth development, everything like that. I do believe the players will get back to the city in great ways. I also think that leaving the door open for the city to use all of these, everything that's in the building and all that stuff, I think that's really important. And I think, you know, the city on a whole should be proud to be able to come together and do that. And again, what happens if, let's say this is a make or break 250 000, we don't give it to them and then that building goes into shambles, we're still taking care of us, right? So I think, you know, for 250 000, I mean, yes, it's a large amount of money, I don't have 250 000, but it, you know, I think it's worth the risk on this because of what we can get out of it. So I'd be voting in support of us [36:28] Joshua L. Nagine: councillor Najee. Thank You mr. mayor, interim director. I have a couple of points I just want to bring forward, and the way that this process is kind of unfolded is kind of felt like I've made jokes about this, like it's like Shark Tank, right, like you're putting something in front of us, we're all hemming and high over it, and then going back and in asking for more information. Ultimately, if it was my money, i would want to be in a position where i felt that the financial guarantee was there, and because i've been elected in order to represent the city with the city's money, i also want to see that. i understand the arguments that you're putting forward. there is value HERE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, UNDERSTANDING THAT $250,000 WHEN IT TAKES $2,600 A DAY TO KEEP THE COLISEUM OPEN, IF THIS ISN'T OPERATING CAPITAL, WHICH WOULD ONLY KEEP THE PLACE OPEN FOR 100 DAYS, IF THIS IS PART OF THE PURCHASE AGREEMENT, THAT MAKES ME WONDER IF THEY'RE IMMEDIATELY GOING TO RUN IN THE SAME SITUATION WITH NO OPERATING CAPITAL. and so that 's a challenge to me. I would say this, you've recommended it, our administrator has recommended it, I am NOT an expert obviously, so over my misgivings I would support this based on the fact that you and the administrator have both recommended it, but if it fails then like I'm also going to be upset That it does and rightly so [38:15] Carl L. Sheline: further comments from Council [38:18] David B. Chittim: Councilor Chittim back to you. Thank you. Mr. Mayor director blaze If this were a straightforward blinders on financial decision, I would be forced to vote against it. I don't believe the security is there looking at the numbers. However, when you coach this in terms of maintaining the city's relationship with the Coliseum with the potential benefits if the swing in the prayer actually holds out, I think that here for once in my career on this days I have to take my facts and figures and to set them aside purely financially it's not a good deal for the city. However when you take the intangibles and factor those in I'm going to be voting in favor of offering this loan to milltown sports council chairman thank you i [39:14] Scott A. Harriman: just wanted to add very quickly that i want to see this project happen overall but there are just too many unanswered questions for me to go ahead at this time [39:26] Carl L. Sheline: councillor naging did you have a [39:28] Joshua L. Nagine: final thought i did so i assume that due diligence was done somewhere along the line in order to verify the financial standing of milltown sports and also of the principles that are putting forward the proposal yes okay yeah [39:52] Carl L. Sheline: just well my final thought is going to be you know it's very clear that milton sports you know needs to city in some capacity right otherwise they would just do it you know we wouldn't be having these agenda items and the city does not have the capacity to run the Colisei by itself at this point and so I really you know this agenda item represents the start of a partnership between both the city and Milltown sports and It will take both of us to make sure that the Colisei is a success any other final thoughts [40:28] Joshua L. Nagine: Councilor Nagine yes, I would just want to correct the record the current owner is in A financial position to keep the building in good shape even if he's paying taxes on it. And so it's not a question of whether or not the building decomposes At the location. It's a question of the use the current owner is not Left the building in disarray. And so I just want to point that out as we're talking about this [41:00] Carl L. Sheline: Are we all set to vote councillors? Madam clerk, please call the vote Council from Ward 1? Yes. Ward 2? Yes. Ward 3? No. Ward 4? Yes. Ward 5? Yes. Ward 6? Yes. Ward 7? No. Motion passed by vote of 5 to 2. Thank you, Director Blay. We are now, that concludes our special meeting and now we are moving to our budget workshop and Director, we're gonna give Director Roy a second to come to the front here. Director we will continue this conversation later thank you [42:13] Bryan Kaenrath: director Roy I see you're [42:19] Carl L. Sheline: joined by our airport director the honorable Jonathan Labonte please kick [42:26] Bryan Kaenrath: us off so the airport is on our page 80 68 and it's remaining flat at 205,000 for the city's contribution so I will let the director of the airport go through some points on the airport budget good [42:52] Unidentified speaker (Airport Director): evening mr. mayor members of the council if you give me a moment for a quick tangent I do have the great fortune to coach some kindergarten and first grade basketball at our local YMCA and we play those games at the armory and I want it so I want to commend the council administration the rec staff the custodial staff that facility is in great shape and it's a phenomenal venue for you sports so thank you guys for what you do there 's a memo I think director Roy might have circulated yesterday I brought you some hard copies I think it would be valuable especially for those who may not have been able to make our workshop that we hosted in January to highlight some other elements that kind of drive the current state of the airport and i'll work through some of those highlights and then i'm happy to happy to field questions and of course i'm always happy to host group or individual tours and discussions if it would be helpful for counselors to see the asset up front director roy did mention we're not the airport is not asking for any additional local operating funding we did submit our capital program our five-year capital program in november I think it's important in any discussion about the airport to understand the significant evolution that has been occurring there going back three years now when there was a significant turnover that began in both the management and the staffing at the airport. What was inherited was significant deferred maintenance across critical infrastructure structure, that included fencing for wildlife exclusion, management of obstructions to the approach surfaces of all four runways, and the maintenance of airport buildings and capital equipment. There were significant FAA compliance risks, in fact the FAA came in 2022 and did an audit of the airport against the federal requirements that the two cities need to meet and found some significant violations of those of those grant agreements that we spent a couple of years and have now closed out there was a much smaller aviation ecosystem there was only one aircraft maintenance business and there were no flight schools at the time significant financial exposure associated with hangar number Five, that was the hangar built for Lufthansa elite Airways was not making payments had not for months, so we needed to navigate their eviction and then tackling the deferred maintenance on that building and then shifting all of its utilities to the airport. At that time there were 39 aircraft based at the airport. So since that time we have resolved the FAA compliance matters. They closed out their land use inspection. We do have a couple of items that we are we are still working through. Based aircraft is now just short of 110 aircraft, so we've nearly tripled the number of based aircraft over that time after Samford, that makes us the busiest airport in the state for general aviation traffic in 12th in New England at this point. Some items that I want to, let's see, there we go, we've spent a lot of time reasserting our role as a reliever to the Portland jet port. There was a lot of discussion in previous years of trying to secure commercial scheduled service that this airport is not positioned for that. Portland still has capacity to add additional trips with the commercial providers there, but our role as a reliever means that the charter private jet traffic, for example, especially in the summer, we're positioned to be able to host that traffic, so business people, tourists that are flying in on private aircraft were positioned in the national airspace system to take that traffic on. In fact, we have more of that traffic than Augusta or Brunswick airports. We have just finished a new master plan. If you folks have not seen that, I can make sure I circulate a link so you can see really in detail the analysis that went into the state of the airport and setting a direction for the future. There was significant reduction in headcount. The airport had 13 employees back in 2023, there are currently two direct airport employees and then other management and aviation service activities are managed through contracts, so we're we're not having to hold year-round head count, so we're not holding a head count in the winter when things are slow just so we can make sure during peak season in the summer we're fully staffed, and that certainly made a difference. There are three maintenance businesses now based at the airport and two flight Schools so more based aircraft they want services flight schools are creating new pilots who buy aircraft and they're choosing to base here. We actually have more aircraft based here at Lewiston than Augusta Brunswick and the Oxford County Airport combined, so we've really worked aggressively to reposition ourselves. Hangar 5 is still a challenge. Move the mic a little closer to you please. Apologies. Hangar 5 remains a challenge that we are still losing significant money on. That hangar it was not built for the purpose that it's currently serving. We still are working on the business development side to find an operator to be there. That's going to still take some time to rebuild the reputation of this airport for the types of Northeast operators that may see value there. Some drivers in the current operating budget and some of these are driven by the fact that the airport is not a city department. For example, there's an audit that has to be done of the airport's books. If we're a city department it would be rolled into a city's audit. Health insurance premiums, the airport sits in a different pool with Maine Municipal Health Trust. Our premiums go up but our premiums are 20 to 25 percent higher than the two cities pay for their employees health insurance premiums because of the size of the operation that we are. Snow and ice control, we've committed to being more aggressive getting the airport open after winter events so we could try to be more predictable for not only the flight school and businesses but for visiting air traffic. The product that we can use on our surfaces for aircraft is 25 times more expensive than what you use to put on the roads. We don't have a budget to be putting a lot of that products. We have to be really strategic but that number has continued to grow and we've had to manage for that. Legal and compliance, that there are some still some items that we're working through and there's a number of policies and administrative systems that should have been in place that were not and we're going to need to spend some time creating those to make sure that if there's ever turnover again on the administrative side systems are in place and not allow the airport to go off the rails with respect to the approach to the taxpayer impact. You know the board has been very deliberate and Mark Blay who's your citizen representative on the board is here and counselor Chittum as well. We are trying our best to generate the revenue to support those increase Costs, we know you're in a challenging budget situation, so we're trying to avoid asking for taxpayers to fund on the on the operating side if we can. What that means though is that there are things that aren't in the 2027 budget that were required by the FAA to get done. So we have what's called an Exhibit A, it's our property map. That property map has not been properly maintained for decades. Properties were acquired or released, or there were easements acquired, and the airport did not properly document them. I can't explain why it wasn't caught before, but the FAA has said we must get it done. They want it done in the next fiscal year. That could require expensive title work and expensive survey work. I'm working to try to find a creative solution right now, but I knew I was not going to be able to ask the two cities for a hundred to two hundred thousand dollars in additional funding to solve that. So that's a risk because the FAA expects it to get done. We're gonna try to figure out how we solve that. I mentioned obstructions, so in particular trees that have grown over the decades. We have an obligation to maintain clear approaches. There are nearly 3,000 trees that now penetrate those approach services. The FAA is giving us through 2030 to remove those. In fact, they told us it's conditional on the most recent grant to help deliver that tea hanger project that we had to sign an agreement that we were in fact going to remove those trees. There is nothing in this budget that funds us removing those trees. We're going to try to find creative solutions to be able to make those trees go away, but there's a there's a liability ticking there. Wildlife management, the FAA expects us to be proactively managing for wildlife. The current fence at the airport has not been properly maintained. We've We've been chipping away at areas where wildlife could enter the airfield. The FAA has an expectation that we're going to continue to advance making fence repairs. We're not budgeting to fully repair those fences in this budget. There's a little bit of text in the memo with respect to the five, you know, it's been five fiscal years now since the airport's asked for more funding. This is not a cry me a river reality for you folks, but inflation is what it is. So that $205,000 today is not going to buy what it could buy in 2023. So we're doing our best with those limited resources. There are over 3,000 airports in the National Airspace System. We are in a very small group of what they call regional reliever airports. So while many community members may have not been out to the airport, and we're always happy that we're actually going to be doing a community event here this summer, trying to ramp back up the community you know being able to see this facility there are only 150 airports that are both regional airports in terms of the number of based aircraft that also serve as a reliever to a commercial service airport so we are a very important part of the national airspace system and the FAA has reaffirmed that I list a number of the types of users you know you often hear with an airport well isn't that just where rich people go and play with their airplanes and I won't read through the text but just on the record to be able to share some of the uses that are regular at the facility, emergency response and public safety. Life Flight of Maine is based there, the Maine State Police come through there, game wardens, Forest Service, Marine Patrol, medical access and human services. Obviously Life Flight, if anyone on their driver's license says they're an Oregon donor,, we regularly will get a call, middle of the night, we send our team in to be able to support arriving aircraft and medical vehicles for organ harvest. Because if someone's an organ donor, that clock is ticking, and we'll have aircraft arriving from all across the country, and even in the reverse, if there are organs coming in for someone who's taking a donation. People may not think that the airport serves that role, but we are large enough to accept that. We also have a number of pilots. Mark is among them. Jim Platts is among the leaders in that host or deliver what they call Sky Hope flights. So these are patients predominantly in Maine for the pilots based out of Lewiston that need access to unique and specialized care that the time and the cost to travel to greater Boston for care is too much. And they volunteer their time in their aircraft to be able to fly from Lewiston to Eastport to Frenchville and then back to bring them to medical appointments. That's a that's a critical value that we deliver. We serve as a hub for the Humane Society to bring in rescue animals. In fact, we had some kittens and dogs come through on Saturday, so folks that adopt rescue animals, there's a chance some of those may have flown in to the community and not driven. UPS has overnight flight, overnight packaging that comes through. Corporate and business aviation, you know, we'll regularly have, say, technicians that are working at the Walmart distribution center. They're flying in. They'll borrow our courtesy car, which is the old airport manager's car. They'll go do some work at the distribution center, come back, get in their aircraft, and head back to, say, Pennsylvania. That happens every day, multiple times a day. And of course aviation business and workforce development. I mentioned the five businesses that we have there now with the three maintenance shops in the two flight schools. We're in regular conversation with LRTC and the leadership of the Lewiston Public Schools with Edward Little, the Community College. How can the airport support career pathways that connect kids to aviation, both for their opportunities to build their careers here, but also for them to get exposed to careers they could they could pursue elsewhere, and how can the local schools work with the airport to do that? Let's see, I'll try to wind down here. Competitive context, I think this may be one of the most important things, like where are we going next? How long do the cities have to subsidize the airport? The reality is only 5% of GA airports are self-sustaining. Those tend to be reliever airports in much larger metros. They're in metro Chicago, so it's a predominantly jet activity that's not going into Chicago or O'Hare. They're there, they can generate significant ground leases, there's significant industrial development around them. One of our challenges here is we're in southern Maine, we're in greater Portland. Folks have choices if they're not going into the jet port. They could come into Lewiston, they could come into Augusta, they could come into Brunswick. Obviously there's a limit. Folks that are flying, say private, probably want to travel 30 to 45 minutes. While the two cities are generous in supporting the airport and the airports working to generate revenue, the Augusta State Airport is, it's no contribution from the city of Augusta. It is fully subsidized by Maine DOT on the operating side, and it's fully subsidized from by Maine DOT on the capital side. And that agreement for Augusta to run that airport includes no performance measures. So we have more base aircraft, we have more turbine traffic, we're selling more fuel. That's a challenge when the state has its hand on the scale. Similarly with Brunswick Landing and the Brunswick Executive Airport, that airport was opened. DOT provided an open line of credit that was rung up to maybe $1.2 million. Dollars, no interest, no requirement for payback, layered on top of that as Lewis and Auburn have industrial parks, the state committed to 25% of the payroll taxes from employees in that area being returned to Brunswick landing to support their infrastructure development in the airport. So as we continue to grow, I would say we are outperforming those facilities. We've got assets that we can promote, the freight intermodal, the airport owns freight rail fronting properties, the LA Railroad is there, but We're one of our challenges in projecting those assets is the state has their hand on the scale, and at some point we'll need to have some strategic conversations about how do we get to the next level, because it is certainly difficult to be paddling up against that to that type of current. So I'll stop there. I went a bit longer than I wanted to. There's a lot happening. It's it's all very positive even in these challenging [59:06] Carl L. Sheline: Fiscal times. So thank you Mr. Mayor. Thank you director. Quick questions for me. You mentioned hanger number five, was that the Lufthansa hanger? It was. Yes sir. Okay. And then how many students, like the combined number if you know it, between both white schools? I don't [59:23] Unidentified speaker (Airport Director): No, I 'd probably, I'd probably guess 30 to 40 students. So yeah, not like five. No, yeah, no, I mean the fuel sales, it's a good measure that the aviation gas or 100 low lead. Both cities supported the investment in the self-serve system where, so like Counselor Chittum's always asking at meetings, you know, wanting to reaffirm what are we doing for fuel sales outside of business hours, and we're doing 15 to 20 percent of our fuel sales outside of our eight to five. We're open every day about Christmas but We have, we have more than tripled the fuel sales over the last couple years, and having a flight school is, it is a major driver in that. Gotcha. [1:00:08] Susan G. Longchamps: thank you councilman long champs thank you for presenting I just have a quick question the aviation school is that something new here in Auburn is [1:00:18] Unidentified speaker (Airport Director): that so there's two flight schools chickadee aviation they were originally at the Portland jet port and they relocated to the airport about two years ago now and the newest flight school tail fin aviation is a new flight school So a gentleman, it's just it's a startup business and he opened in November [1:00:44] Susan G. Longchamps: Okay. Yeah, I sent my son to a pilot school, but he had to go to Augusta. So that's great. Yeah. Thank you. [1:00:52] Joshua L. Nagine: Concern aging. Thank you. Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Director, for the presentation. That, I just want to state that under your leadership the airport is turned a more profitable age, and I think that's a positive for both cities' finances, so that's great, and I'm glad that you're willing to try to figure out creative solutions to some of these FAA requirements that otherwise would cost the taxpayers considerable money, and it's one of those gifts that keeps on giving when the FAA gives you an airport, so thank you. [1:01:32] Carl L. Sheline: Are there comments, questions from counselors? Thank you. Did you have something, Director? [1:01:37] Unidentified speaker (Airport Director): Yeah, I've got one more thing that I just, I just want to put out there, and it relates to some where we're going next. So I've started work on a business plan for the airport, and let's lock in a strategic direction. Ensure that the two cities who are responsible buy in, and the airport board is then stewarding that through their airport director, right? The decision should come this way and not this way. One of the challenges we have is that right now I don't believe the airport's five-year capital program, which was submitted in November, was included in Lewison's CIP, and I know it's a difficult time to be thinking about what might be invested for FY27, but given that we just created a new master plan, some of the capital items are business development related. How do we keep growing and become more sustainable? Some of them are directly related to federal obligations to maintain the airfield, and I, what I want to avoid is when the FAA looks at our CIP and says, wait a minute, are both sponsors committing to their obligations to the airport? We just came out of compliance risk, but they're still watching because they want to ensure that just because things are okay now, are we gonna step back? So at some point, I think we will need to have a conversation about what the future looks like for capital and how we can try to be predictable in that capital, because if we're gonna attract investment, they're gonna want to know, okay, if I'm willing to build a hangar here, are the two cities on board? They've built a master plan, they've got this strategy, are they really committed to it, or is it just marketing material? And I make a commitment to invest or bring in a larger aircraft, and then the cities retract. Ultimately the city, it's your decision, in Auburn's council decision in terms of those investments, but I the future of business development is going to rest on the investment decisions that the two councils want to make. Understood. [1:03:34] Carl L. Sheline: Thank you. Thank you. Come visit, Director Roy. What's up next is the [1:03:46] Bryan Kaenrath: nonprofit ask. So I'm gonna remove myself from the table so that they can come up and speak to the council, Mr. mayor yes you have two sections in front of you the nonprofit cash request in the in-kind we were recently contacted by the main strong foundation they were asking for a $360 cash donation for porta-potties however they have had those donated so we can remove that request off the list they still have an in-kind request that is the softball tournament they do at the Ron Warren fields I'm not sure if anybody's here [1:04:31] Carl L. Sheline: from them tonight. Okay, so all right, I guess we're gonna go in order here. Do we have somebody from the Girl Scouts of Maine? Please join us. It says here that you've requested ten thousand. Yes, all right, if you can both introduce yourselves and then briefly tell us about that. [1:05:04] Deirdre Clifford: My name is Deirdre Clifford. I am the vice president of development for Girl Scouts of Maine. [1:05:09] Megan Main: My name is Megan Main. I am the community program manager for Girl Scouts of Maine. [1:05:13] Deirdre Clifford: And we're seeking funding for our community programs, which are troops that operate in Lewiston in areas where we're unable to find a volunteer. And we have reason to believe that the girls are not able to find their own membership fees. So Megan and other staff members will run troops in these areas. We have had one functioning at the Hillview Apartments for many years. It's a huge success. It has 30 girls attending in all ranges, kindergarten through high school, and experiencing all of what Girl Scouts has to offer. And then recently across the state, we've been starting after-school programs with the same model, having a staff member, they're covering the fees for the girls, and giving the full Girl Scout experience. This is specifically to fill in the gaps in after-school programming that many schools are facing. Currently we're at McMahon and we're hoping to expand that in the future because this program is going really well and the girls are benefiting. I [1:06:16] Megan Main: would just like to add that as Deirdre noted, that we are providing this opportunity in areas where we believe there is some financial restraint. In addition to removing that barrier, we also aim to remove the barrier of transportation that we see commonly for these programs. At our school based programs, a lot of times the schools, including what one that's running at McMahon, provides a bus ride home for these girls. The he'll view the ride out of program operates within their community buildings so there's no need for girls to be dropped off by an adult or picked up. We walk the girls home after a meeting. So thank [1:06:54] Carl L. Sheline: you. Questions, comments from the council? [1:06:56] Joshua L. Nagine: Councillor Nagy: Thank You mr. mayor. Quick question, so it's McMahon and he'll of view that the two programs are being run in, is that the only two programs [1:07:05] Deirdre Clifford: that we're talking about? Those are the ones that are currently running. We're talking with other schools in the area, hoping to start something in the new academic year, but currently those are the two that are running. And how many [1:07:16] Joshua L. Nagine: area youth are currently involved in both of the programs? I would say can [1:07:22] Carl L. Sheline: both of you just move the microphones closer to you? Just, yeah, perfect. Thank [1:07:26] Megan Main: You, I would say the McMahon was a recent startup in the beginning of 2026. I don't have an official number registered and we are operating within the 21st Century program at that school. Last year we ran a program there that had about seven girls participating. We would like to run more within the school systems. The 21st Century program actually reached out to us this year looking to have us back but we were unable to find staffing for it. We're hoping that we can have a partnership with Bates in the future with some work study students. As far as Hillview goes there are currently approximately 30 girls registered for that program who are participating and that as Deirdre said is across grade levels K through 10 [1:08:17] Deirdre Clifford: currently and I'll just add that in all of Lewiston there's including those programs there's about a hundred girls participating in Girl Scouts. So this is a lot of girls who are in need of these programs. Understood and just for my [1:08:34] Joshua L. Nagine: understanding and the public's understanding so the Girl Scouts of Maine is a separate organization than the national organization. How does the [1:08:41] Deirdre Clifford: funding model work is basically what I'm asking. Yeah we do not receive funding from Girl Scouts national, Girl Scouts of the USA. There are occasional grant opportunities including this grant opportunity that we received to start nine programs in schools this year. These were very small grants and we like I said we're doing this across the state. So actually the one at McMahon is not covered by that national structure but most of our funding comes from local community fundraising and then operating and I take it dues as well is that correct or no. Yes yeah we have a portion of the membership dues and a portion of our product program which includes Girl Scout cookies. My neighbor [1:09:26] Joshua L. Nagine: is Girl Scout I believe her mother is a troop leader so yes and it's it's [1:09:33] Deirdre Clifford: incredible what these troop leaders are able to do. Each troop requires two troop leaders because we don't have any adults alone with the children. It takes hours and hours of training to learn all of the mental health things that they need to know to know the signs of abuse and neglect that are required when you're around children and then of course learn all of Girl Scouts programming which covers STEM, life skills, entrepreneurship and the outdoors. So it's really understandable that we're not Always able to find these two volunteers who can run these troops, which often takes hours a week. So having these programs where we're not able to find those volunteers is essential, but that's [1:10:13] Joshua L. Nagine: wonderful that your neighbors doing that. Those were my questions, thank you. [1:10:18] David B. Chittim: Councillor Chittim, did you have something? Yes, I do, thank you. This is a statewide organization, correct? What's, round numbers, what's your annual operating [1:10:25] Deirdre Clifford: budget? We have an annual operating budget of around five million, and we serve around 4,500 girls across the state in every county, and that's about 400 troops. [1:10:39] David B. Chittim: Okay, and do you ask each municipality that you serve for donations, contributions every year? [1:10:47] Deirdre Clifford: We do not, no. This initiative is relatively new, so we've received funding from whatever we call these programs, a place for girls, and we have several running throughout the state. The one at Hillview is our longest and most successful. We have gotten funding from various United Ways in the past. We receive funding for this program from United Way of Androscoggin County, but costs are going up, need is going up, and we are trying to diversify community [1:11:16] Unidentified speaker (Lewiston Farmers Market Association Treasurer): support. Thank you. Well, good luck to you. Thank you very much for the questions. [1:11:22] Carl L. Sheline: Thank you so much for being here. Do we have someone here from the Dempsey challenge, Danica? [1:11:34] Danica Della: I thought I recognized you. Come on down. Hi, I'm Danica Della [1:11:42] Ted Scheme: Ted scheme, the events and sponsorship manager for the Dempsey challenge. All right, yes, so new this year we are asking for a cash contribution of $10,000 in addition to the amazing in kind services that you do already do provide for the Dempsey challenge, and this has been sort of a culmination after over a year of discussion about our electrical equipment, essentially is what it is. So backstory, the Dempsey Center owns electrical equipment, the equipment that is currently used and installed to make everything happen at the Dempsey challenge. We pay to install it. We've tried several different ways to get that costs down, essentially volunteers. You can't always count on volunteers, you need master electricians involved. Long story short, it is one of our largest bills currently. We are paying $24,000 to get that installed for the week and for the weekend events, and so we've been trying to get creative about how we can help offset some of those costs. One of the things we do, we do by the way lend electrical equipment to the balloon festival to use as well. Originally our first ask was, could the city potentially install for us the way it's installed for the Balloon Festival. That wasn't a possibility. So the ask came at the suggestion of, well, let's ask for a $10,000 ask to help offset that cost. So that's where the ask is coming from. As far as budget for the Dempsey Challenge, we have, since I had this role in 2019, we've actually had to cut our costs down nearly $100,000 after losing our presenting title sponsor, so I'm constantly looking at every line item of our budget on how we can continue to create the amazing event that we do have. And thankfully, the city has been so supportive across the board for this event, and this just comes as another ask. What we do, we valued, we were looking at the package of what already is provided as far as in-kind value and support from the city, and we're going to value that at $10,000. So between the cash ask at $10,000 and the in-kind already support that we do have, we would like to value that as a sponsorship at $20,000. So in return, we would give all of those benefits to the city and really spotlight the city throughout the event weekend. is [1:14:24] Carl L. Sheline: Patrick coming this year you know he is further questions comments from the council [1:14:28] Scott A. Harriman: Council Herman thank you this is more of a question for staff I think and you touched on it a little bit but I was wondering as you were speaking you know the city has an electrician at least one I'm I'm sure he's very busy and has a lot to do but I wondered if that could be if that connection of that equipment could be an in-kind contribution I don't know maybe that's already been talked about and there are issues with that yeah we've had discussions Counselor with [1:14:56] Bryan Kaenrath: Public Works and they just don't have the bandwidth to do that it's such a long setup that they just can't accomplish that and still do the other tasks that they want to I will point out I don't know if Danica has seen this amount but actually their in-kind request is now a little over 12 000 with Public Works and police officers that work that event okay thank you yes and I [1:15:20] Ted Scheme: would that is probably due to the extra security we've asked for in regards to recent events and with Patrick coming in so that's probably where that increase is coming from Councilor Neging yes [1:15:34] Joshua L. Nagine: Thank you Mr. Mayor thank you for coming and I just for the folks at home and in the audience the Dempsey Challenge is set up as a fundraiser correct and the funds go to [1:15:49] Ted Scheme: Yes, exactly. Because of our sponsors, we can say 100% of the funds that are raised by participants go directly to programs and services at the Dempsey Center. We are a holistic program for... Our mission is to make life better for people impacted by cancer. Our founder, Patrick Dempsey, loves to say, we treat the person, not the disease. You have your oncology team, and our organization provides that wraparound care, holistic care. Counseling, therapy, Reiki massage, oncology massage, nutrition classes, for not only the person directly impacted by cancer, but also care partners, family, anybody who might need the services, and it's 100% free. I always like to say we don't ever even ask for insurance information. It's 100% funded by donors. [1:16:43] Joshua L. Nagine: Thank you for that. And you mentioned the weekend, so is it a two-day event this year? [1:16:48] Ted Scheme: It's not a two-day event. We do have Friday night event That celebrates our top fundraisers and then the event day will take place on Saturday, September 19th [1:16:58] Joshua L. Nagine: Okay, and I think this question is probably more for staff But if we could get an idea of like the economic impact of having the density challenge in the community Each year if we if we have an idea from possibly the economic development department, I would appreciate that [1:17:19] Carl L. Sheline: FURTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? COUNCILOR CHIDDUM. [1:17:22] David B. Chittim: THANK YOU, MR. DELATESKI. I APPRECIATE YOUR WORK FOR THE DEMPSEY CHALLENGE AND BEING HERE TONIGHT. SAME QUESTION I ASKED THE GIRL SCOUTS. WHAT'S YOUR ANNUAL OPERATING BUDGET? [1:17:33] Ted Scheme: FOR THE CHALLENGE ITSELF OR FOR THE DEMPSEY CENTER? FOR THE CHALLENGE. FOR THE CHALLENGE, RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A $325,000 OPERATING BUDGET. IT USED TO BE $425,000. So it's cut down quite a bit [1:17:47] David B. Chittim: Thank you for that [1:17:51] Carl L. Sheline: Thank you for being here Administrator Kenrath. Do we have someone to speak on the balloon festival? [1:18:01] Bryan Kaenrath: I Can take that mr. Mayor we have begun the process again of the balloon festival. We've had a couple of meetings with staff We're reaching out a bit our specialty balloons, you know, it's kind of I don't want to give the theme away yet I know our marketing Communications director I know was going to be working on that but we've begun the process of assembling the team Reaching out to get donations. So we're looking for ten thousand dollars in cash towards this event [1:18:30] Carl L. Sheline: Do we have any questions? Yes, councillor Chittum. Thank you [1:18:33] David B. Chittim: This is this is the Lewis and Auburn Balloon Festival has Auburn participated financially in this venture. I know they have not [1:18:44] Joshua L. Nagine: Councilor Nagy. The funding, would that come from TIF funds or would that come from the general operating budget? [1:18:53] Bryan Kaenrath: General operating budget. [1:18:56] Carl L. Sheline: Is this coming from the marketing budget or? [1:19:00] Bryan Kaenrath: No this is in your the donations line and it is in your budget already in the donations so if you choose to keep it in there it WILL FUND IT IF YOU CHOOSE TO REMOVE IT THE FUNDS WILL BE REMOVED OUT OF THE BUDGET [1:19:17] Joshua L. Nagine: COUNCILOR NAJING YES AND FOR LAST YEAR'S BALLOON FESTIVAL COULD WE JUST GET A BREAKDOWN OF BOTH THE FUNDRAISING AND COSTS SENT TO US JUST SO THAT WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT IT AS A COUNCIL THANK YOU [1:19:36] Carl L. Sheline: kathy mcdonald you're here in some official capacity for the balloon festival [1:19:42] Cathy McDonnell: i'm part of the committee but i just wanted you to know that on our application our teardown date is incorrect it's august 25th if that makes a difference to everyone that's it thank [1:19:54] Carl L. Sheline: you for the questions for from the council about the balloon festival administrator SHROYD KENRATH DO WE HAVE SOMEONE HERE TO TALK ABOUT LOOSTON LIVE YEAH I CAN TAKE THAT MR MAYOR [1:20:07] Michael R. Roy: SO AS YOU KNOW LOOSTON LIVE IS OUR NEW BUSKING FESTIVAL A PILOT WAS LAUNCHED LAST FALL WE'RE LOOKING AT A NUMBER OF DATES THIS SPRING TO CONTINUE AND GROW THE FESTIVAL THIS IS A NUMBER OF AT LEAST FIVE STREET PERFORMER STATIONS STATIONED AROUND DEW FRAME PLAZA AND ON ELIZABON STREET AGAIN ANTICIPATING TO GROW ATTENDANCE THROUGH THE EVENTS TAKING COURSE THIS SPRING ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS? HAPPY TO TAKE A STEP AT THOSE. COUNSELOR NAGY. [1:20:41] Joshua L. Nagine: SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 10,000 FOR THE BUDGET, BUT THAT DOESN'T COVER, AND I THINK THIS COMES BACK TO THE L.A. BALLOON FESTIVAL AS WELL, IT DOESN'T COVER THE MARKETING COSTS, IS THAT CORRECT? SO WHAT I'M ASKING FOR, LIKE, WHAT I WAS ASKING FOR BREAKDOWN OF THE L.A. BALLOON FESTIVAL, would the marketing cost be included in that yes last year we applied for [1:21:05] Bryan Kaenrath: actually we've got the last two years for Maine tourism grant for $60,000 excuse me from the state that we used for the marketing for the event so we're applying again I don't know if we're going to receive it we may we may not I [1:21:17] Joshua L. Nagine: don't know and that would be the same question for the what I'm asking is $10,000 seems to be a small amount of money including marketing the event and so it does that include do we have a breakdown of last year's budget and [1:21:34] Michael R. Roy: and what it looked like could we have that yeah we can get that and director why this is out of the marketing budget correct this is out of the [1:21:45] Joshua L. Nagine: marketing correct okay perfect thank you [1:21:48] Carl L. Sheline: For the comments about loose and live, and then is somebody here from, is it the public health community committee that [1:21:57] Bryan Kaenrath: runs the rally for recovery? I don't think there's only half of that, but this is our yearly event. We take that fifteen hundred dollars, comes out of opioid funds. It's event that occurs in Kennedy Park. I see Catherine Ryder is here, but I think she's been part of the planning in the past, but this is just a continuation of that event that we've done for several years, and there's there's [1:22:16] Carl L. Sheline: money in the opioid. Correct, yes. Okay, all right, questions, comments about that? Okay, and now we're UP TO IS THERE ANYONE HERE TO TALK ABOUT SUMMER FUN AND FILMS? GOOD [1:22:41] David Palzold: EVENING, AND THIS MICROPHONE, I'M USUALLY USED TO STANDING AND HOLDING IT, SO THIS IS GOING TO BE KIND OF DIFFICULT FOR ME, BUT I'LL DO MY BEST. HI, MY NAME IS DAVID. OH SORRY, DO I, 'M A LITTLE NERVOUS. TAKE IT AWAY DAVID. THANK YOU MR MAYOR. UH, GOOD EVENING. UM, MY NAME IS DAVID PALZOL AND I'M A LOSING Lewiston resident and the owner of Paulo Entertainment, the DJ sponsor for Summer Fun and Films for the past five years. I'm here tonight because I've seen firsthand the impact this program has on families, especially kids who may not otherwise have access to experiences like this. Thank you for the opportunity for me to speak tonight, and I am asking for continued support of the Summer Fun and Films, a long-running community program that provides free, accessible, and safe events for our community, both children and adults. Each event brings hundreds of residents, families, kids, and community members from all backgrounds in a safe and welcoming environment. For many families, especially those facing financial burdens, some parents have personally come to me and discussed the Disney-like experiences for their kids over the summer, many who would not normally have access to these types of events. Beyond entertainment, these events create a safe space where schools, nonprofits, and communities can connect directly with residents, sharing resources, building relationships, and strengthening community trust. The request for $10,000 goes directly into the program operations, including audio-visual setup, up activities like face painting and inflatables in event logistics. The program is voluntarily led, so those funds go directly into creating that experience for families and keeping it free to the public. At this point, the program has grown beyond any one individual. It is something the community has come to expect and rely on, and the value stands on its own. This is a proven program that brings people together, removes barriers for families, and strengthens our community. For many, it's one of the few chances to experience wonder and joy during the summer vacation, something very special or truly special. As it enters into its 10th year, the question isn't whether if it works, it's whether if we choose to sustain this program moving forward. And in anticipation and some questions, the annual operating budget is thirty eight thousand dollars with an expense of seventy seven thousand dollars last year the gross margin sit to be about sixty nine or six thousand nine hundred dollars that carried which obviously will go towards the expenses for this year. Mr. Mayor. Yes, questions, counselor. [1:25:32] Carl L. Sheline: Should have or wait, sorry, counselor and agent, I was looking at you. We're good, thank you, Mr. Mayor. [1:25:41] Joshua L. Nagine: Quick question, two questions. One, how many events would the 2026 season be? Do you know how many [1:25:48] David Palzold: movies would be laid? Yeah, I believe it's scheduled for six with possibly a seventh one, two, three, four, five, actually sorry, I have currently five pending. I know that they're in talks with the schools and the community leaders to kind of secure that, but I believe it's five, possibly six. Okay, and in [1:26:08] Joshua L. Nagine: THE PAST THERE IS A PRESENCE FROM CITY DEPARTMENTS INCLUDING THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. THERE 'S NO REASON WHY CITY DEPARTMENTS CANNOT UH PARTICIPATE AS A COMMUNITY. I WOULD INVITE ALL [1:26:20] David Palzold: THOSE TO PARTICIPATE INCLUDING THE CITY OR ANY OTHER DEPARTMENT. IN FACT, A SELFISH PLUG, I'VE HEARD A LOT OF GREAT ORGANIZATIONS ALREADY TALK. I'D LOVE IF YOU GUYS COME AND PARTICIPATE AS WELL, SO IT'S A GREAT COMMUNITY PROGRAM. OKAY. [1:26:35] David B. Chittim: COUNCILOR CHIDDOM. YES. I'M SORRY I DIDN'T GET YOUR LAST NAME, DAVID. YOU SAID $38,000 IS YOUR OPERATING BUDGET, BUT LAST YEAR YOU SPENT $77,000? YEAH. [1:26:45] David Palzold: THAT IS CORRECT. THE NUMBERS THAT I WAS PROVIDED, MIND YOU, AS I FLIP THROUGH MY PAPERS REALLY QUICKLY, THE ESTIMATED, YEP, SO ESTIMATED OPERATING BUDGET FOR 2026 IS $38,450. $450. Last year's our expenses totaled a $77,000. [1:27:07] David B. Chittim: There's a problem there. Well, they obviously overestimated their operating budget. Where did $39,000 come from? The current profit and loss, [1:27:18] David Palzold: which you might have received or not, doesn't specifically state where the difference is. I am happy to report though through both income and donations. They were able to have a net Profit, I mean it's a non-profit. So obviously carried but you know, so they're definitely [1:27:37] David B. Chittim: Maintaining net revenues of six thousand. Well, that's that's good for you, especially coming out of a thirty nine thousand dollar hole. So congratulations on that. [1:27:48] Joshua L. Nagine: Councilor Nagy one thing just to speak to really quickly. I think last year there were either seven or eight movie nights. And so I think that accounts for maybe a higher operating cost as well. [1:27:59] David Palzold: Yeah, I could I'm not privy to that to that information. So You surely find out and send it you I'm sure. [Deirdre Clifford: You're welcome.] Thank you, thank you for your time. [1:28:15] Carl L. Sheline: I'M UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT MAYBE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE MOBILE UNIT MIGHT TAKE A FEW MINUTES. SO IF YOU'LL BEAR WITH ME, WE'RE GOING TO DO THE LIBERTY FESTIVAL NEXT. [1:28:32] Cathy McDonnell: I'M SAVING MYSELF A FEW STEPS. I'M GOING TO STAY RIGHT HERE. SO I'M CATHY MCDONNELL. I AM THE CHAIR OF THE LIBERTY FESTIVAL. AND MARCUS TELERICO IS MY CO-CHAIR. SO WE AGAIN THIS YEAR ARE ASKING FOR $15,000 AS WELL AS COMMUNITY SUPPORT. WE'RE TRYING TO OR WE'RE TRYING TO DO A LITTLE BIT OF trying to organize three days this year being on Friday night would be just an open community type event in Veterans Park with just some music and some children's activities Saturday is the 4th of July that will be starting in the evening as well not until about 430 fireworks going off at 9 30 p.m. and we'll have again music entertainment children's activities food booths in the variety as we usually do and then we're hoping on Sunday to have more of an American salute and tribute to our country in our 250th anniversary so we're kind of in the talks of trying to make a very large copy of the United States Declaration so that members of the community can just come and be part of it and sign the Declaration and hopefully create a little bit of pride in our history of our country I've talked to a couple of members of the Historical Society that also have some interest in doing some presentations as well. So we're, as always, we're excited, we're happy to be doing it. There are a couple of mistakes on our application as well, one being on page two, parade is not checked off, but it is on page five. So we are trying to create a parade. It's very difficult on the Fourth of July, but we are working very hard and trying to come up with a parade. Other than that, we look forward to celebrating the Fourth of July and our country's 250th anniversary, and I'm ready for any questions. [1:30:38] Carl L. Sheline: Director Roy, what was the amount that we funded at this last year? Was it 15 or [1:30:43] Bryan Kaenrath: wasn't different amount last year? We funded 15. remove 5,000 from the budget this year, so 10,000 is in your donation line for Liberty Festival for fiscal year 27. Okay, but we did 15 last year. [1:30:57] Carl L. Sheline: Correct. Okay, and then our buddies across the river, Kathy McDonald, what did they do? [1:31:03] Cathy McDonnell: They did 10,000 last year and listened 15. We have requested 15 from them for this year as well. [1:31:10] Carl L. Sheline: Do we have an answer from them yet? I do not. Okay, questions, comments from the council. Concert should have [1:31:17] David B. Chittim: messaged McDonald. Thank you so very much for all the work that you've done over the years on this Liberty Festival. I'm fully in favor of it, but I will continue to urge you to minimize the fireworks [1:31:33] Carl L. Sheline: for the questions, comments. [1:31:38] Cathy McDonnell: I can tell you that the money that the city does give us goes directly to fireworks. The rest of the money for entertainment, the porta potties, all those other things, we work really hard to fundraise to pay for all of that so that the community benefits 100% from what the city gives us. Thank you for that. [1:32:02] Carl L. Sheline: Yeah, we're good if you are. Are yeah, thank you. Yes, we have a spur, we care if they can join us up at the front, that'd be lovely. Good [1:32:26] Katherine Ryder: evening. You were gonna say pull the mic up close, weren't [1:32:29] Carl L. Sheline: yeah, you know, people are getting the people are getting the message, appreciate that. If the three of you can please introduce yourselves and then [1:32:37] Katherine Ryder: kick us off here, we can. Good evening, Mayor Chalene and esteemed council members. Katherine Ryder, senior director of strategic initiatives for spur wink. [1:32:46] Rebecca Podcast: Feels a little bit like old home week. Hi, Rebecca podcast, I'm a vice president of [1:32:52] Ernestine Peralta: outpatient and community services, it's for wink. Hello, I'm Ernestine Peralta and I'm the community outreach program supervisor, so [1:33:03] Katherine Ryder: We spent many hours in front of council over the past year as we were working to help build an ordinance for the city of Lewiston by offering information about the services that we provide and how we provide those services and the care we offer to the people in our community who are the most at risk, many who may be struggling with addiction, unhoused, perhaps untreated mental health, and all of that becomes part of the package. In our conversations, it became very clear to all of us that one of the issues with the program that we currently run at 1155 Lisbon Street is that we sit out on the outer edge of the city and that many of the people who may need our care may not be able to get to us and even though we have seen an increase in foot traffic coming into our program we firmly believe and I believe some of the council members did as well if we could establish a mobile unit that would go out into the community to places that fell within a buffer zone that the council would identify for us that we would be able to bring that care to people most in need in a way that we could not otherwise and we've provided I provided you with a full proposal that outlines the services, the staffing, the unit that we would like to purchase for the purpose of doing this. It's a two year budget that we've presented to you, and Rebecca will go into that in a bit more detail. But this would allow us to kick off the program, to collect data, to report back to the city about progress that we're making. In the executive proposal you'll note that I've included data about state of Maine overdose deaths and it's quite compelling I think that Maine can be proud of the work it's done and I will say to you that given my work at the state level and then back here in the community I'm especially proud of the work that we've done here in Lewiston as well as over in Auburn our programs like options and project support you which work alongside of law enforcement fire and rescue and travel out with emergency medical services have made a tremendous impact I believe that we have succeeded in building trust and hope where they may not have been trust and hope prior to and that the education that we provide along with pathways to recovery and not always back to our own services to be clear people have choices about where they would like to receive treatment when they're ready but all of that work is the larger package of what we do and so there is data in here talking about the numbers of People that we serve, when I spoke to you previously, I had mentioned to you that I was formerly the CEO of Tri-County Mental Health Services, which has joined with at SpurWink. We celebrate two years today. April 1st was the date that we crossed over, and so here we are two years later with a very, robust set of services that we can provide, and some of the services that will couple with this potentially if folks choose to work within the walls of SpurWink include, we'll have a crisis receiving center that will operate 24 7 365 days that will be opening in dare I say June July, and it will receive all comers, and so we are very excited to offer that opportunity. We also have a number of services as I've mentioned that are boots on the ground out in the community. We have agency based services, and so along with other providers in the community, our relationships with those providers, the collaborative work that we are doing with Main Family Planning and also with our local hospitals, we believe that we could have a very comprehensive thread we could weave through the fabric of our community to ensure that there is a safety net under the people again who are most at risk and who we may not be able to reach otherwise. So I will stop there for a moment and pass it over to Ernestine, who is going to talk a little bit more about the specific services that we could offer, the [1:37:22] Ernestine Peralta: services that we can offer through mobile unit mimics a lot of what we do in our brick and mortar that's located 1155 Lisbon Street. We have a comprehensive harm reduction services there currently, and we would be obviously doing this through mobile. The unit would offer naloxone, sterile syringes, fentanyl test strips, and same-day MOUD initiation to reduce overdose risks. We would integrate primary and behavioral health care services include wound assessment, emergency first aid, HIV HCV screening, and telehealth behavioral health support for holistic care. We would also continue to offer peer support and community connection, peer specialists companies COMPANY STAFF TO BUILD TRUST AND LINK CLIENTS TO HOUSING, RECOVERY AND SOCIAL SERVICES. The roots would be determined, obviously, by the overdose data and community input, ensuring targeted and adaptive service delivery. A mobile health units generally are going to places where, you know, our folks that we're serving currently are, you know, they're in pockets of the cities that are safe for them in their manner that they decide they may not come to a brick and mortar for a variety of different reasons. So, a mobile health service would obviously come to them and be able to connect them to important resources and healthcare services. You know, mobile historically helps to continue to build the model of healthier communities by reducing overdose fatalities, improving public safety, community resilience, cost savings obviously and a gateway to comprehensive care [1:39:37] Rebecca Podcast: so we included our budget documents in the packet you received outlining the two-year budget this is something that would be a shared cost between the cities of Lewiston and Auburn and covered through opioid settlement funds so [1:40:01] Katherine Ryder: happy to answer any specific questions anyone might have. One of the things I'm aware of is that our current ordinance does not include language around mobile unit but I do recall that there was conversation about could that be an addendum to the ordinance if we were able to successfully craft the ordinance and get it passed and so we would just like to offer that now with CDC rule having recently been promulgated, we have the current language from the state that we could utilize. We would also be happy to come to work groups and work with City of Lewiston to help draft language for a mobile unit. And so just raising awareness that we know that currently does not exist. [1:40:48] Carl L. Sheline: Yes, Councilor Herman. Thank you for presenting. [1:40:52] Scott A. Harriman: so I see that you do plan to if this does go forward to split kind of [1:40:59] Katherine Ryder: between Lewiston and Auburn and yes we have already had conversations with Auburn they are in receipt of the same proposal with the split that has been indicated in the budget documents okay and that's where I was going do you have [1:41:13] Scott A. Harriman: a like a final or a preliminary answer from them yet or are they kind of at the [1:41:17] Katherine Ryder: same stage we are same stage you are at and I believe we have a date pending for next week okay we're waiting for final on that date all right and then my next [1:41:28] Scott A. Harriman: Question I think is probably for Director Roy. Do you have the current balance or approximate balance of our opioid settlement funds currently? There's five hundred and twenty eight thousand four ninety nine. And is any of that, is any of that already allocated for it, for other uses? I remove that from the [1:41:50] Bryan Kaenrath: the total so the total is six hundred ninety six thousand five twenty one. There's an encumbrance in there for 168. Okay thank you. [1:41:59] Joshua L. Nagine: Counseling Aging. Thank You Mr. Mayor. Thank you all for coming. I've got a couple of things. One, I believe Auburn still has a moratorium in place for [1:42:10] Katherine Ryder: syringe exchange, is that correct? That's a great question. I know that there are council discussions about a syringe exchange that we have been part of, so they're probably crafting [1:42:21] Joshua L. Nagine: some sort of ordinance. We were going to have a separate ordinance for mobile units and I don't know exactly where we're at right now as far as any of those discussions are concerned. I know this is more about the allocation of the funding versus the other pieces, but I think that this is going to require a workshop with some of the proposals concerning the idea underwritten you, I mean you've got some great slides in here for instance right that nobody can see. I think there's a lot going to be a lot of questions from the community, so I think at some point we need to have a workshop around what this look program looks like, and then also I would ask that if you could possibly have a representative come to the Lewiston area public health committee meeting to speak to this program specifically, just so that we can get some feedback from those folks as well. We would be more than happy to be present. Okay and that's basically all my questions at this moment. Thank you. [1:43:24] Bret Martel: Council Martel. Thank you Mr. Mayor and thank you for your presentation. I'm just curious, do we think it's a good use, so it's opioid settlement funding, and we're going to use a mobile unit to bring needles to addicts so that they can abuse opiates. Is that the plan? [1:43:45] Katherine Ryder: I would suggest that we probably see that a little bit differently, and for us, it's much bigger than just bringing people needles, and Ernestine can speak to the work that her staff does. That is one service out of many services that happen in harm reduction. And I would also suggest to you that our experience over the years, and you're looking at someone who has a reformed experience of that, is that when you meet people where they're at and you can start with harm reduction, you can most often move folks onto a pathway of recovery. And when you see someone reclaim their life and reintegrate with family members, reintegrate into the community, go back into the workforce, it is really a remarkable experience. And so yes, that is what we are hoping to do. [1:44:33] Bret Martel: It, I just struggle so because what we have is an illegal drug trade that's thriving here in Lewiston and all the negatives that go with it, the crime, the property crime, the violence, the destruction of lives and the family members of the people that are addicted to these drugs. And it seems counterproductive to me, at least, to give money that was rewarded as the, I don't know, funding because of all the damage that opioid did, just to go back and help people abuse more opioids, which only contributes to criminal enterprise, enterprises and black markets that are thriving and taking over many parts of our city right now. And I don't think that helping people get clean is done by delivering needles to them where they are so that they can inject potentially lethal drugs. I don't know how that is health care or life-saving or beneficial at all. And I understand that we're likely going to agree to disagree on that, but what percentage of this do you think, do you have any idea what is going to be used for driving around delivering needles to people so that they can use it, and what part of it is going to be delivering mental health services or wound care like you said, or do you have any idea what the breakup is of the use of this mobile unit, should it get, do [1:46:06] Ernestine Peralta: you want to take that? Sure, I would equate that to what our percentage is in our brick-and-mortar currently. The syringe exchange for us is actually a very small portion. It's probably our smallest portion of delivery service in our brick-and-mortar. Predominantly folks are coming in for wound assessment, and they also are coming in for hygiene products and recovery support services. We have peers there that have lived experience, and they're offering coaching and support, and there's lots of referrals to treatment, connections and other kinds of healthcare needs that people have. I think one of the best examples that I've ever actually received from a client that receives our services is, I was working with a client for quite some time, and they were struggling with staying clean and sober, but they kept coming into the clinic to receive supplies. But there, it wasn't so much about the syringes. It really was about being able to connect with someone who's had lived experience and being able to kind of guide them through that. This is a process. And one day this young lady said to me, I know what you've been doing all this time. And I said, what is that? And she said, you've been holding hope for me until I can find it for myself. And for me, that's what we do this for. Every day is to be able to supply that for them. Sometimes it comes by way of supplies, but predominantly it comes from connection with individuals that are struggling, that just need a bit of a light to kind of guide them, you know, towards wellness. And that's, that's the highest percentage of the work that we're doing and that we also hope to continue to do through our mobile. You [1:47:55] Bret Martel: sound very passionate about your work, and I appreciate that. I'm gonna ask you a difficult question. It's not meant to be insulting or rude. It sounds like you care about the people that you work with and the examples that you just gave, absolutely. How would that affect you if one of the needles that you gave them CAUSE THEM TO OVERDOSE AND PASS AWAY AND THEY NEVER GOT THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET I'M SORRY THAT'S [1:48:18] Carl L. Sheline: NOT AN APPROPRIATE QUESTION. DON'T ANSWER THAT. WHY NOT? YEAH, NO, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE HAVING, WE'RE NOT HAVING DISCUSSION ABOUT IDEOLOGY RIGHT NOW. WE'RE SIMPLY HAVING A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE INDS AND [1:48:28] Bret Martel: OUNCE OF THEIR PRESENTATION. SO THANK YOU COUNSELOR. DO YOU KNOW THE CONVERSION RATES OF THE PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE THAT COME GET NEEDLES FROM YOU THAT END UP ACTUALLY IN TREATMENT AND GETTING BETTER? Do you know, say, out of the 100% of people that come to you to get needles, what percentage of those individuals end up converting into treatment and actually being successful in that treatment? Sure. [1:48:51] Ernestine Peralta: We have data collection that supports a lot of these findings and whatnot. Predominantly, we are obviously trying to get people to go towards any kind of level of care and treatment and whatnot. I think our percentage is actually pretty high. You know, you're, you're probably looking at it, probably about half of the people now. That's over a course of time. It could take months for someone to get to the point where they decide that today's the day, and that's the typical progression of people entering recovery. And the point is for them to continue have access to people that can lead them towards those directions. And that's what mobile as well as a brick-and-mortar harm reduction service does provide, is that continuance of providing access to talking about recovery and their options and the support for that and taking that next step to do that. So there's a very high percentage of folks that are taking steps every day. And if your measure is that they are successful in recovery and that they're long-standing, you know, in sobriety, then I'm sorry that you're missing the point, really, of, you know, harm reduction services, which is really to get them to survive another day, to have another chance. [1:50:11] Bret Martel: Is there a city bus stop at the brick and mortar location? Currently, yes, there is. Those are all my [1:50:18] David B. Chittim: questions for now counselor chittum thank you thank you for presenting you've already pointed out the fact that we have a disconnect between our ordinances and your desire here to operate a mobile unit does spur wink operate any other mobile units in the state of maine we do not okay thank you miss Pekka site you stopped by talking about the budget and I've noticed there 's a 4% increase in here is this through the calendar year from now to December 1st and January 1st because there are two [1:50:53] Rebecca Podcast: sections in here yes so there's two pages the first page is just move the MIC CLOSER TO YOU JUST YEAH THERE YOU GO UM SO YEAR ONE IS THE FIRST PAGE IN YEAR TWO IS THE [1:51:05] David B. Chittim: second page. Is that okay? That answers the question. All right, so those aren't, those are full years, correct? in the first year, however, the Lewiston share is 209,000. In the second year, if I'm reading this correctly, it's 85,000. Yes, that's correct. Capital, is that capital cost to get the [1:51:31] Rebecca Podcast: okay, exactly, the purchase of the vehicle is in the first year budget and not in the second year budget, so that's represents that difference. Thank you for [1:51:40] David B. Chittim: That now the tough question if we move forward a year you all appreciate that this is an exceedingly difficult year for the for every municipality in the state particularly for Lewiston because we have another complexity that's been thrown into our budget process. If this is deferred for a year there will obviously be detriment and harm because it hasn't been put in place immediately. Can you talk to that what happens if this program is deferred for a year I [1:52:18] Katherine Ryder: think it's fair to say that the rates of overdose deaths were escalating until services like project support you options distribution of Narcan came into being and now we are seeing significant reductions and overdose deaths and some of you know because I've testified in front of you before I lost a son a combat veteran who came back from combat theater and could not tolerate the moral wounds he experienced and fell into a spiral and I will tell you I'm grateful for the access he had for the period of time that kept him alive because it kept him with us longer he ultimately succumbed to his addiction and died in December of 2021 and at that point my commitment was sealed to continuing to provide outreach connection the building of trust the offering of hope so that people could live another day and move towards recovery and we see it over and over and over again and I will tell you it does not discriminate there is no discrimination and addiction you would be amazed at the people that we see and when they get their lives back and their families are reconnected there is a beauty in that I can't even [1:53:38] David B. Chittim: put into words I appreciate that thank you I should have perhaps phrased my question a little more sorry clearly if this program were delayed a year would there be a backsliding in the progress that's been made with your brick and mortar establishments in here and that's a open-ended question I think what's [1:54:01] Katherine Ryder: what's missing is that our colleague agency closed and they were central in Lewiston right and so there was a lot of conversation around can people get to us. And yes, there's a bus route, but not everybody is even in the center of the city to connect to the bus to get to where we are. There are places that people are trying to live that are not going to get them to where we are. So we wanted to be more accessible to the community and working closely with City of Lewiston, with law enforcement, who we are already corresponding with. We're mapping, we know where overdose deaths are taking place, so we are able to zone in on all of that, and we will have technology on the unit if we are successful in purchasing it, which will alert us if there's a spike in overdose [1:54:49] David B. Chittim: deaths in any particular area. Thank you. One final question. Could you speak a little bit to the coordination with the homeless shelter, your coordination with the homeless shelter? So we [1:55:06] Rebecca Podcast: are, as Katherine had mentioned earlier, we are getting ready to launch our crisis receiving center, which maybe sounds like a tangent, but just move the whole apparatus. Sorry. So a lot of collaboration there. Those conversations that we are already have been having in course of the work we're doing are deepening in the context of the work we're expanding as we're getting ready to launch our crisis receiving center. So this is work that happens right now, and I can, Ernestine can maybe add some detail to what her team is currently doing in terms of collaborating, but I would see us, you know, continuing to sort of deepen that work in partnership to make sure we're sort of meeting all the community needs. And then you want to add? Sure. [1:55:54] Ernestine Peralta: Sure. Part of my role as a community outreach supervisor at Spurwink is that I have the pleasure of working with 15 individuals that do provide community outreach daily to Lewiston, to Auburn, and throughout Anderson County as well. Some of the programs expand into the rules, and they're predominantly going everywhere where people are and connecting with them and offering support. Trying to get them, obviously, you know, to consider options for treatment and, you know, in any kind of health services and whatnot as well. So it mimics a bit of what we're doing in the brick and mortar, but predominantly their job is out in the streets, encampments, the jail, the, you know, BED, you name it. There really is no barrier to where they're able to go and access people, and there's, there it's all grant funded, and so it doesn't, a person is not required to participate in these services, and they're Not required to have insurance, or you know, or even they can be anonymous as well. They can continue to work with someone anonymously until they're ready to, you know, say their official name so they can connect to services and whatnot. So it's very low barrier, a way of delivering service to the community. Thank you. Do you have [1:57:18] David B. Chittim: Somebody that's at the homeless shelter on a regular basis, and do you have a [1:57:22] Ernestine Peralta: Seat on the board? I do not have a seat on the board. I don't believe Spur Wing does have a seat on the board. So as far as all of my staff that are doing community outreach services, they do regularly attend and go to the warming center and whatnot and to provide support and care [1:57:39] David B. Chittim: As I understand, it's going to be a homeless shelter as of tomorrow. Yes, counselors. Thank [1:57:44] Carl L. Sheline: you yeah keep this focus on the actual topic here the mobile facility one second counselor roy director roy i don't know if this has been touched or not could the amount that's requested be wholly funded by the opioid fund or certain parts are excluded so if the request for [1:58:09] Bryan Kaenrath: 294 is approved by a council, it could be funded from the opioid fund, like it would meet all the requirements for the opioid fund. I'd have to look at every single thing, but I think as long as it's for recovery, I know that they have other services, but the bulk of it recovery, then it should pass. I'd have to look at your detail and then look at the paperwork for the opioids requirements [1:58:37] Carl L. Sheline: Okay, thank you. Councilor Roy. [1:58:40] Michael R. Roy: THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR. THAT WAS MY QUESTION. HOWEVER,, LET'S SAY, I MEAN, I KNOW WHAT THIS WOULD DO TO THE COMMUNITY AND I KNOW HOW IMPORTANT THIS IS TO A LOT OF PEOPLE. IF IT WERE NOT TO PASS, YOU DID SAY THAT YOU HAVE OUTREACH SERVICES NOW. WOULD THERE BE A PLAN TO MAYBE RAMP THOSE UP? Okay But I am glad that it could possibly get in there. So thank you counselor Herman [1:59:15] Scott A. Harriman: Thank you. So we touched on the fact that the first year budget is a little higher because of the capital expense, so you have about eighty five thousand dollars for the second year, and then would you presume that amount would stay around there, you know, probably going up slightly due to inflation in further years [1:59:37] Rebecca Podcast: Sure, so one of the things that we have been talking about in the planning for this just relates to that sustainability plan and how we would be able to continue to offer these services post year two. There's a number of different sort of pathways for that. I can start and then Katherine you can add. One of the things we've talked about is now that the CDC, the regulations do support mobile units as well, there are possibilities of where our brook and mortar overlap and this exchange. So one of the things we're looking to collect data on if we are to proceed with this is, you know, how does that influence our traffic in the building? Maybe we can, maybe we don't need to be open at the exact same hours if we have times that we're in the community. Maybe we can share resources between our CDC funding. Now, granted that there's moving parts with that funding as well, but thinking about sort of how we look at this as a whole towards sustainability. Catherine, I'll let you speak to some of the other sort of opportunities for funding coming down the road. [2:00:51] Katherine Ryder: The other places that we're fairly confident that we would be successful in applying for grants is with the Maine Recovery Council, who are also recipients of state opioid settlement funds, as well as the AG's office, which has established a protocol through the Moss Institute at USM. We have both of those things tucked away in folders, ready to go when the time is right. But as Rebecca said, we are hopeful that there will be some translation of CDC dollars that would follow the mobile unit by the time we get to year three. [2:01:26] Scott A. Harriman: Okay, thank you for that. And then I also just wanted to remind councillors that this proposal is for opioid settlement funds, which are limited to specific uses and are not part of the general fund. Don't impact the tax rate as well. [2:01:40] Joshua L. Nagine: Councillor Nagine, just quickly dead to touch on this one spot, two subjects. First one is the HIV testing that is rapid testing. Am I correct? Yes, it is. Okay. We're definitely going to need another workshop so we can go over some of these pieces. But I just want to highlight that I realize that we're trying to meet people where they're at, and I appreciate that. But I want to point out that the encampments that we're currently seeing in the city are conditions that no one should be living in. Ultimately, the city allowing these encampments is to the detriment of the people who are staying in those encampments. And it's it's it's a very big challenge for the city as well as the neighborhoods that these encampments are located in as well as the people who are staying in these encampments. And so you know at the end of the day I support the mobile concept. I do not support [2:02:40] Carl L. Sheline: and encampments in the city. So thank you. Understood. Further questions comments for spurwing team here. [2:02:51] Susan G. Longchamps: Yes, comes along chips. Good evening. I would just like to know they're long jams. Please. Use the mic. Will these vehicles just be used in Lewiston in Auburn or will they go elsewhere? [2:03:04] Katherine Ryder: Strictly Lewiston and Auburn for those first two years at least. If we see that there's a need elsewhere and there is funding that is made available to and I don't think it would be the entire County of Androscoggin. I think that may be unreasonable. But if we're currently serving in Lisbon with our options program so it may be that a stretch out in that direction would be possible. But I think we know the bulk of the work will be right here in Lewiston Auburn and definitely only in Lewiston Auburn in the first few years. And my next question kind of goes with [2:03:37] Susan G. Longchamps: what counselor Najeen was bringing up the concerns about encampments. Would you guys go to those [2:03:43] Ernestine Peralta: encampments to provide services? I believe that would be something that we would discuss with you all in the future session in regards to you know the ordinance and the proximity of you know of where to go what would be appropriate within what distance from certain structures and you know facilities and all of that. So that would have to be discussed obviously [2:04:09] Katherine Ryder: separately. And I think we could add that historically our staff have gone along with law enforcement when they have gone to the encampments to work with folks to try to connect them to services and have had some success with that. Wonderful. Yes so my concern [2:04:24] Susan G. Longchamps: would be we need to try to get people out of those encampments. And I just feel as much as we want to bring services and bring them items and food and do all of those wonderful things to care for our neighbors I also believe we need to do a better job at trying to provide the resources to get them out of there for many reasons. So I would be a little concerned that if we did agree to this having you guys go out there and provide one of those things you know too much services meeting them where they're at may be damaging as well. And I would [2:05:09] Katherine Ryder: Suggest and may I offer something, Mayor? Please, we'll be showing another viewing of the documentary film Building Hope over in Auburn in May at the drop-in center, and so I would invite all of you to come to that so that you can get to meet some of the people who have lived in encampments, and it is not a happy place to be, right, and people are not comfortable there. So a lot of our work really focuses on what would life look like if it were different and how could you get there, a lot of motivational interviewing, so resources to keep them alive today but with a goal to move them along to something different. Thank you. [2:05:49] Danica Della: Thank you for being here. Thank you for having us, Director. [2:05:57] Carl L. Sheline: Roy, are you coming back to join us, Mr. May? We have the in-kind request. Well, yes, but I think in the past I think we've, Director Roy has, our Director of Finance has simply gone over those, and if there's questions for individual projects the counselors can ask them, or were you anticipating [2:06:22] Bryan Kaenrath: going over every single one? Well, we have a group of folks here, I mean, I can, we can go through the list that's there, but some of the folks here are not asking for cash, is just [2:06:32] Carl L. Sheline: asking for in-kind requests, right? Okay, who is here from the Alzheimer's Association? Come on down, or I'll stay here, so it maybe is a little quicker. I'm [2:06:46] Chris Baker: Chris Baker with the Alzheimer's Association. I'm development manager for the state of Maine. I oversee the Walk to End Alzheimer's that is based here in Lewiston Auburn. We are October 3rd this year at Samard Pain Park, and we are just asking for in-kind for the permit coverage, and I do understand from Chief Conley from last year that the police coverage comes from that. We do not close down any streets. We just ask for an officer to be manned at our registration table in the case that people bring donations the day of and then follow a staff member to the banks or to the post office so that can be shipped off to our funding source. Questions for, I'm sorry, your name again? Chris Baker. Chris Baker, thank you, Mayor. Thank you. Thank you so much. [2:07:33] Carl L. Sheline: Do we have someone here from the Greater Engineering Humane Society? Good [2:07:47] Donna Ritchie: evening, I'm Donna Ritchie, development director and interim executive director at the Humane Society, and we're asking for support for next April for our Dash for Dogs 5K, and it's really just to set up with the cones to keep all the runners and walkers safe. [2:08:05] Joshua L. Nagine: QUESTIONS ALL RIGHT COUNCILOR AND AGING IS THAT IT'S NOT THIS APRIL IT'S NEXT APRIL WE HAVE ONE [2:08:12] Donna Ritchie: This April, but that was on last year's budget, okay. And what date is that on? This April 26, I believe it's a Sunday, or 28th. There is a 26. [2:08:25] Joshua L. Nagine: The reason I ask, I live really close to the river walk, and it's always nice to be able to go out and like pick up a little bit [2:08:31] Donna Ritchie: before the run comes through. Yeah, perfect, great, thank you, thank [2:08:37] Carl L. Sheline: you. Thanks. Do we have someone here from the American Lung Association, truck across Maine? Good [2:08:48] George Eastman: evening, George Eastman with the truck across Maine for the American Lung Association. We're not asking for any money, we're just asking for the in-kind donations that you've been providing us with for the last, no, I took well probably six years since we've been coming here. That's usually like police officers for intersections and barricades, electronic traffic control devices, things like that. Questions? [2:09:18] Carl L. Sheline: thank you 're welcome administrator Kanerath I'd like to you know move the City of Lewis and as a block to the bottom and so do we have anyone here from the [2:09:30] Danica Della: YMCA? Come on down, or step on up. Good evening, Marcy heard from the Triple [2:09:41] Unidentified speaker (Triple Crown/YMCA representative): Crown, LA Triple Crown. So the YM fit fest is on June 6th this year, on Sunday, and we were also, we have the bridge run that's in August, and so each year we ask for in-kind services for police and for maintenance, public works, for road closures. They're actually just partial road closures. Any questions for [2:10:15] Joshua L. Nagine: MARCI RIGHT COUNCILOR NAGY IN THE PAST YOU'VE YOU'VE HAD A I BELIEVE DAVID hedegers on the on the committee correct he's notified us of different organizations of when the road closures will be coming through that 's still gonna happen right yes perfect [2:10:35] Carl L. Sheline: Thanks. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Do we have someone here to talk about Taste of Harvest, Taste the Harvest? Hello [2:10:54] Rebecca Podcast: everyone, I'm Susan Rulin, I'm the CEO and president of the LA Metro Chamber, [2:11:00] Justin: and I'm joined by, hello, I am Justin, I am the events coordinator for the LA Metro Chamber. Please continue. Sure, so Taste the Harvest, what we're asking for is a road closure of Lisbon Street. This is going to take place September 30th, so we'll need barricades, we all need Public Works to help clean up around there, we asked for some porta potties, it's all listed in our in-kind request. We've been doing this for the, this will be our eighth year doing this, and we're hoping to make it a little more accessible to those around the downtown Lewiston area. We had a high price point last year, and so we're trying to make it a little bit more accessible for a bigger outreach for people to attend. Questions? [2:11:52] Carl L. Sheline: about TASTE THE HARVEST AND THEN I ASSUME THAT YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO TOUCH ON KICKBALL [2:11:59] Justin: Yes please talk about that now. Great, so that's going to take place July 14th at the Randall Road fields. What we're asking for is Public Works to assist in creating a beer tent, so we'll need some barricades for that, some port-a-potties for that, minimal asks for that event. Questions about kickball, we're [2:12:27] Joshua L. Nagine: good or counseling agent did you have a question in the past it was at Smart [2:12:31] Justin: Payne yes it was when it was connected to the River Fest, but we are no longer pursuing River Fest and the fields at Randall world have three fields so we can have three games happening at the same time and you won't lose [2:12:46] Joshua L. Nagine: balls in the canal yeah correct rabbit I believe [2:12:48] Justin: the city of Lewiston is a team so excited for that. Public Works makes a [2:12:55] Carl L. Sheline: strong showing, we love Public Works, don't we all? Okay, for the questions for the chamber we're good, thank you. I think our Liberty Festival people have left, I think we mostly know about that. Somebody here from the wine, Marcy did you already talking about that? Okay, we're making such a great project, such great progress. Danika did you want to talk about Dempsey, did you have anything else to add or do we have any questions about the in-kind donation request for Dempsey? I guess we're good, all right. Moving right along, we're going to turn the page. I noticed that we have President CEO Hogan here FROM COMMUNITY CREDIT UNION. UH CAN YOU TALK TO US ABOUT THE BLOCK PARTY? [2:13:49] Rebecca Podcast: YES UM THANK YOU UM SO SUSAN LONGCHAMPS AND I ARE LOOKING TO BRING BACK THE PINE STREET COMMUNITY [2:13:55] Katherine Ryder: BLOCK PARTY AGAIN THIS YEAR. LIST ARE LOOKING FOR IN-KIND DONATIONS FOR PERMITS, PUBLIC WORKS [2:13:59] Carl L. Sheline: AND LOUISTON POLICE DEPARTMENT PLEASE. QUESTIONS ABOUT THE BLOCK PARTY? COUNCILOR NAJING JUST [2:14:06] Joshua L. Nagine: A COMMENT, IT WAS SAD TO SEE IT NOT HAPPEN LAST YEAR AND LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING IT HAPPEN THIS YEAR. [2:14:11] Carl L. Sheline: SO YES THANK YOU. UH THANK YOU. UH IS DAVID STILL HERE FROM LUCIN SUMMER FUN FILMS I THINK OR OH OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO ADD? YES [2:14:26] David Palzold: JUST REAL QUICKLY THE IN-KIND DONATION JUST INCLUDES THE VARIOUS IN-KIND DONATIONS FROM PREVIOUS YEARS INCLUDING UH SUPPORT DROPPING OFF AND PICKING UP TRASH CANS, UNLOCKING GATES, PUBLIC PARKING SPACES ALSO FOR COUNSELOR AND I APOLOGIZE AM I SAYING THAT CORRECT? THE VARIANCE AND DIFFERENCE FOR THE BUDGET FOR CLARIFICATION WAS CAPITAL EXPENSES FOR ONE TIME, INCLUDING BUYING NEW TRAILERS, WRAPS, OTHER DIFFERENT TYPE OF ASSETS. SO THAT'S WHY IT'S THE $39,000 HAS BEEN FOUND. GOOD. [2:15:03] David B. Chittim: I'M GLAD. THANK YOU. [2:15:05] Carl L. Sheline: THANK YOU. I WOULD LIKE TO NOTE THAT WE made substantial progress this evening okay i guess that's that do we have who's here from le arts okay we mostly know about that anyways healthy neighborhoods amy thank you for joining us thanks [2:15:34] Amy Smith: for your amy smith thanks for your time i'm representing healthy neighborhoods tonight and we're looking for in-kind donation to continue our successful bulky trash removal efforts down in the tree streets we've been collaborating with Public Works on this since 2019 and we do four events a summer May June September and October and across the four events we generally move between removed between 12 and 15 tons of bulky waste from the neighborhood and the in-kind request is we've collaborated with Public Works to make it as efficient as possible. They drop off and pull the dumpster throughout the event on Friday and Saturday during regular business hours, so there's no overtime. Questions [2:16:19] Carl L. Sheline: for Amy Smith? Thank you. Okay, do we have someone here from the Main Strong Foundation? Have a seat. Hi, [2:16:34] David Palzold: I am Chase Cody. I'm here on behalf of the Main Strong Foundation, our memorial foundation, and [2:16:39] Unidentified speaker (Airport Director): our ask is the same as last year, additional field maintenance and upkeep, painting lines, checking the fences, posting the road on the inside for no parking, and happy to [2:16:50] Carl L. Sheline: answer any questions that any of you might have. I'm sorry, did you say your name is Chase? Yeah. Okay, thank you. Questions for Chase? I guess we're good. Awesome, thank you. Thank you. Thanks for being here. Gather to Grow, is that a Sherry Director Blumenthal? Maybe. Good evening. [2:17:18] Unidentified speaker (Lewiston Farmers Market Association Treasurer): Good evening, Mayor, Councilors. Just to clarify, I'm actually here for the Lewiston Farmers Market Association. We put Gather to Grow because the association is only a state nonprofit and not a 501c3. I see that. Please proceed. That is the hat I'm wearing tonight. I'm the treasurer on the board. Our in kind request is to help finish a project we started last year with Public Works to continue to improve the market space. We're at 75 Lincoln and to Oxford. We made some substantial improvements last year thanks in large part to LPW where we removed boulders, we added signs, we added trees and garden beds and to create a more continuous space with Lincoln Street and just a more beautiful and accessible space, and so now we want to carry that over into to Oxford and to try to both green and improve both accessibility of what is more or less a gravel parking lot. It won't be the whole area. It will be a part of the area to provide a continuous market from the Lincoln and the Oxford Street. [2:18:29] Carl L. Sheline: Questions, comments from Councilors? [2:18:32] Joshua L. Nagine: Yes, Councilor Nagy. Just really quickly, can you speak to how many markets are held a year? Sure. [2:18:39] Unidentified speaker (Lewiston Farmers Market Association Treasurer): We do around 31 markets a year. We see between 11,000 and 13,000 visits. We operate May through November and we have we support on average 20 to 22 regular vendors. [2:18:57] Carl L. Sheline: Thank you. A lot of turnups get sold. Councilor Chiddom, did you have anything? Yeah. Okay, I think we're good. Thank you so much. And then who do we got here from McMan? Okay, we're good. Director Roy, have I missed anything? Okay, I think we're doing rec. Yes, Director Welsh is here so [2:19:38] Bryan Kaenrath: we'll start with recreation on page 58. The overall increase of 167 thousand 772. Recreation administration is on page 58. Overall increase is $48,297. The increase in personal services of $18,512 due to salaries and the steps and COLAs, five employees in that department. Contracted services increased $18,015. This is mostly due in repairs to vehicle of $19,350. This is for public works rental of a 14-passenger bus, which is new. New. Supplies increased 11,700. Office supplies 10,900 for folding chairs and tables for rentals and for the large city events. Armory is on page 58. Overall increase of 119,566. Personal services increased $34,643. This is mostly due to in temporary wages is the transfer in for the aquatic of $62,000. Contracted services increased $85,523. This is mostly due to repairs to buildings of $67,080. This is for roof repairs of $15,000, general painting of $10,000, the yearly gym maintenance for the floor of $8,500, and replacing the failed heating control valve of $36,000. Senior citizens is on page 58. The overall decrease of $91 is due to the age-friendly reimbursement for the part-time employee in that department. Any questions for Director Welch on any of those before we move to recreation programs? [2:21:39] David B. Chittim: Programs. Councillor Chittim. Thank you, Director Welch. Can you talk about the failed heating control valves? Are those part of the new improvements or? [2:21:48] Bryan Kaenrath: They're to remedy previous problems. I believe Louis Turcotte's here to speak on those. Yeah. [2:21:54] Unidentified speaker (Public Works/Engineering staff): Over the years, the control valves on the old radiators have failed or been vandalized, and we've lost control of the heating, the temperature control of the heating system. We did do an interim fix on that. We basically have one thermostat controlling the heat for the whole building, which is, believe it or not, working out fairly well right at the moment, but it's not ideal. So by replacing these valves, we would gain better control, the way the system was intended to work. So it's not part of the new system, which right now appears to be a couple years away. Okay. Thank you. [2:22:39] Bryan Kaenrath: Next we'll go over recreational programs on page 59 to 63. When you got to your seats tonight, there are new sheets, correct? So those you want to replace in your books. There's some line items corrected. So overall increase of 21,684. Again, note this is a special revenue account, so it's no impact on the tax rate. Positive amounts in the recommended column equate to the program being self-supported and able to support start programs and aquatics. Fund balance at the end of fiscal year 25 was 331,795. I won't touch on every program. I'll let you ask Director Welch on certain ones, but general had an overall deficit of forty four thousand ninety one. This is due to salaries. Even though you see salaries decrease in three thousand five thirty one, this is projected for the new community sports aid, so the salary line total is forty two thousand two ninety one. Day camp had an overall surplus of $8,862. This is due to an increase in projected revenues of $16,122 based upon anticipated demand of 115 summer camp registrations. Volleyball had an overall surplus of $9,709. Even though you see a decrease in revenues, they still have a surplus. Revenues are projected to decrease $5,160. Track overall surplus of 435. Revenues are increased in 500. This is due to the increase in the spring and summer track registration fees. Tennis has an overall surplus of 802 dollars. This is the revenue decrease in 590 for the decrease in participations, with a slight increase for fees from 95 dollars to 99. Soccer overall surplus of twenty eight thousand eight hundred and eighty three. The revenues are increasing twenty thousand six fifty due to the increase in adult teams from twenty to thirty eight, bringing in fourteen thousand four hundred, and summer camp registration fees of six thousand two fifty. Lego robotics overall two hundred and seventy eight increase. Revenues increased one $1,650 for Mines in Motion program for 20 registrations. Lacrosse has an overall surplus of $1,311. Revenues are increasing by $1,200 for summer lacrosse programs. Field hockey, overall surplus of $1,750. Revenues increasing by $1,000. Youth basketball, overall surplus of $6,759. That you'll see a decrease in the revenues of $1,675, but this will still be covered and have a surplus. Softball and baseball, overall surplus of $821. Revenues for basketball decreased by $290 for reduction in registrations with a slight decrease in cost, while men's softball is increasing $1,300 due to the fall wooden bat league. Cheeran overall surplus of $1,627, theater overall surplus of $1,875, revenues are increasing $3,750 due to registrations remaining flat with a cost of increase from $200 to $250. 50 age friendly overall surplus of 2 700 revenues are increasing 5 600 for general programs 2 300 and then chair yoga which is new 3 300 table tennis overall 900 surplus aquatics overall deficiency of 8 645 the donation that we saw earlier in the wreck on the general fund rec department at the beginning is entered into here for revenue of 62,000 which is a 10,000 increase from last year pickleball overall surplus of six thousand five was 507 the sport of course has become most popular revenues Increase in 3190 for an increase in the drop in fees child care overall surplus plus of $196, revenues increased by 3,000 for Teen Adventure Day. Youth cross country, overall surplus of $205, revenues are decreasing 90 for registration fees, and recreational supplies remain flat. Football, overall surplus of 200. Roller skating, overall surplus of 800, with revenues remaining flat. Flat. Recreational supplies remain in flat. Programs overall surplus of $7,700. This is a new program in fiscal year 27. Revenues are projected to be $9,800 in table fees, $6,000 in concession sales, $2,000, and raffles $1,800. Family programs overall surplus of 100 this is a new program in fiscal year 27 revenues are projected to be 750 and recreational supplies are projected to be 650 000. Any questions for director yes can you like in [2:28:40] Carl L. Sheline: The brief amount of time that we have can you just tell us what lego robotics is i realize it sounds [2:28:45] Bryan Kaenrath: It's mostly self-explanatory, but yes, we, a couple years ago, we had some grant money from the NRPA mentorship program. Through that program, we were able to purchase, believe we have either five or six iPads, we have the wires, the gears, the bots, and the actual Legos. So during this program, kids actually get to create robots, and they get to test them and drive them, and it's really a good part [2:29:11] Carl L. Sheline: of like a introductory STEM program, you know. I realize that the kids come first here, but I should have been called immediately. Yeah, I'll text you next time, Councilor Chiddom. [2:29:24] David B. Chittim: Thank you. Director Welch, programs is a new program. Can you talk about what programs is? [2:29:29] Bryan Kaenrath: So looking that, looking at that, I think the word craft fair was supposed to be in front of that. So I know, Director, I mentioned a couple minutes ago, so we had a couple of larger accounts that were under those general miscellaneous accounts. We tried to break some of those out, and part of that is making the artisan and craft show its own program to better show the incomes and expenses for the event. [2:29:55] David B. Chittim: Okay. Thank you. Final question. What's the tuition today camp this year? [2:30:01] Bryan Kaenrath: Early bird is $1,095. After April 17th, it is $1,195. And we have launched our two-month Be a Summer Camp Champ sponsorship scholarship program, where we're currently taking donations. [2:30:19] David B. Chittim: Is that a significant increase over last year and the year before? It's only 100. [2:30:24] Bryan Kaenrath: We held hard at 900 until I believe it was either one or two years ago, but with the minimum wage increases in the general cost of transportation and field trips [2:30:33] Carl L. Sheline: we unfortunately had to go up. Okay, thank you very much. Councilor Roy, did you have something? [2:30:40] Michael R. Roy: Thank you. I think I answered my question, but age friendly, I see chair yoga. [2:30:47] Bryan Kaenrath: What else is there for like trip expenses and stuff like that? Yeah, sure. so this is a relatively new program. It started three years ago, and our age-friendly program coordinator, Stephanie Cody, oversees that. It's a 30-hour-a-week position. Part of her responsibilities include being administrative help to the Lewis and senior citizens, but Stephanie also has hours to create new programs that aren't covered under the Lewis and senior citizens. For example, we have chair yoga. She's also started a walk-in program. Most recently, she started a cabin and fever program where she has found donors from around the pro, around the city, who have paid for lunches and activities. So every Tuesday since the start of the year, she's had free lunch opportunities for local senior citizens. We had our 14 passenger bus in February and they did a mystery lunch trip to Brunswick, believe it's called Wild Oats. So folks jump on the bus for $3, they know they get to go have a, have some yummy food with some good company. and they arrive with the destination and surprise, they get to find out where they're having for lunch. so there's a pretty good range of activities going on right now. Thank you, that sounds pretty cool. Yeah, Counselor [2:32:07] Scott A. Harriman: Harmon, thank you for presenting and, I know you do a lot over there, 's more here than I even realized. So a question about the fund, so it's kind of, it's a special revenue fund, it's separate from the general fund. With all these programs, do they sort of all complement each other financially? Like if you're running a deficit with one and your surplus and another, do they kind of all support each other? Yes, so in the way [2:32:34] Bryan Kaenrath: we kind of develop like prices for programs, we have to look at what are the base costs, do we need temporary staff, do we need to buy new supplies. So we look at what those needs are and then we also look at what is the going rate for an adult program, what is the going rate for a drop in pickleball program. So a lot of variables kind of take into place. We always have a non-resident fee, so depending on the program, if it's ten dollars or like a, you know, one thousand one hundred and ninety five dollars, that expense will go up and down. Believe since I've been here, the special revenue fund, it's gone up maybe ten to fifteen thousand over the last, I want to say, two or three years. I do have ideas in the future on ways to use that money, either in the building or for other city programs. Since we are now covering the salary of a full-time employee, having that reserve is very important because we want to make sure that we can pay that employee for now. So yeah, I hope that answers some of the questions. Yes. [2:33:38] Joshua L. Nagine: Thank you, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just want to say, Director, that I'm exceedingly impressed with what you're bringing to the table. I greatly appreciate the programming that you're offering, the fact that you manage, your department manages so many summer youth jobs, you know, all of these pieces that I think are really impactful for the city. And it's a pleasure that a lot of these programs are actually not running in the red, so that's, that's fantastic too. And yeah, I just wanted to comment that I [2:34:14] Bryan Kaenrath: appreciate it. Thank you for the feedback. Our squad is so hard-working, they're so creative, and they really put the passion into their jobs every single day. Really [2:34:23] Bret Martel: really lucky to have such a strong team. Council Martel? Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Councillor Nageen stole my thunder a little bit because I wanted to say some of those same things. We got to meet when I was at the LSAC meeting a month or so ago and get a, the tour, light, I look forward to returning and getting the rest of it. But hearing the place bustling with young children in the basketball court and the turnout that I saw there was very impressive. And then across the hall we are having our Lewiston seniors meeting, so I know the things that are going on, the services that are being provided on that end too. So just commendation on a great job, and thank you very [2:35:01] Susan G. Longchamps: much. Counselor Long Champs? Good evening. Thank you for the presentation and for all that you do for our city. The question I have is about the day camp. I do believe you guys have scholarships for families that may not be able to afford, correct? Do you know how, about how many [2:35:20] Bryan Kaenrath: scholarships you? Yeah, so last year the number we gave out, eight thousand six hundred and ten dollars, and that was in scholarships in all of 2025. Our scholarship fund right now, it's funded strictly by private donors, and we have a thousand dollars that we take from that special revenue account that we can slide in there as well. It's a first come first serve. This year we've had more requests than we have the past two years since the fund was created, and we probably have about four thousand dollars left to give out over the next couple of months for summer camp scholarships, but it's definitely a resource that would be used more if it was funded a little more heavily. [2:36:06] Susan G. Longchamps: So that's basically given by private donors, correct? So I would encourage people out there that might and hopefully are listening to sponsor a child that would benefit from this day camp. I know there's people out there with deep pockets, to be completely honest, and so I would encourage you to sponsor a child or two. [2:36:33] Bryan Kaenrath: And just to add that, as mentioned, we are doing a two-month be a summer camp champ. It's a busy a fun drive, and if you go to Lewis and recreation comm, it's the second graphic down on the page that can give you all the ways that you can [2:36:47] Carl L. Sheline: donate. You should hit up the pickleball players. They're there more than the kids are anything else. Thank you director Welsh, we appreciate your service to our great city. Thank you so much director Roy. Am I to understand that concludes our presentation portion of the budget process, correct? So there is no [2:37:13] Bryan Kaenrath: budget meeting scheduled for this Thursday. Next Tuesday the school board will be in front of you for budget workshop before your meeting, and then there are other days set aside for general discussion if need be. We have April 9th, April 14th, April 16th, and April 21st. The first of the public hearing, there is a public hearing on Tuesday night, the first one, and then there's the last public hearing on May 5th. Okay, thank you. [2:37:47] Carl L. Sheline: Can you, oh yes, can you recap, you know, based on what we know right now, where [2:37:58] Bryan Kaenrath: where's the city tax rate? So it's currently at 1968. Looking at other items as we're going, we will be removing one hundred and six thousand six sixty six for the homeless shelter. That's going to be covered under the TIF. The health coordinator one hundred and two thousand seven ninety two will be removed. The county 1044 will be removed, and then the removal of the parking garage security of $80,000 due to not being needed. So it will be removing $290,502.66 from the expense accounts. If you give me a minute, I can pull up the tax sheet. [2:38:52] Carl L. Sheline: And then if you could also give us what the percentage increases over last year. [2:39:03] Michael R. Roy: So the city operating budget was 7.1% as presented. With that 290 000 of them drop trace, can we give you a number? Thank you administrator Kane Rath. [2:39:16] Joshua L. Nagine: While we're waiting, yes, Councilor Nagine. So when we talk about a hypothetical mill rate for the future, I think it's difficult for people to understand at home when they don't know what their valuations are, and also how it compares to what the milk we should be talking, I think also comparatively, if we're talking about the mill rate now, what it looks like with the increase. So if it's 32 50, okay, if it's $32 now, what is it with the increase? So that people can, you know, picture that in their heads. And one thing that I just, that just came to me, unfortunately the special meetings are over, but could I ask to have a breakdown of the amount of the 250 000 that we're loaning that is coming out of the general fund versus the the money that we set aside for out of either the TIF fund or the enterprise fund. What I understand is that 250 000 is coming, a portion of it is coming out of the general fund, and I want to know how much that money was set aside last year. [2:40:31] Bryan Kaenrath: Administrator Kainrath pulled that out of the budget. I don't know if you recall the last couple years we were giving $250,000 to Economic Development to run that program. I believe the last time they used that you folks voted for a Democracy Brewing, got a large sum. So that money is not affecting the tax rate that we're using for the Coliseum. [2:40:49] Joshua L. Nagine: Interim Director Blaze had mentioned that a portion of it was coming out of the general fund. I just want to make sure that 's not the case or if it is the case director roy could make sure of that but yeah if we can get an email on it that would be helpful that's all it is coming out of [2:41:04] Bryan Kaenrath: the economic reserve which is already in there from prior years so if you remember the night we went over the tiffs on the notes i had given you like a screenshot of everything that's in that economic reserve there's about i believe 538 000 in just the economic reserve portion that's where THAT WOULD BE COMING OUT OF OKAY SO IT'S NOT IT'S COMING OUT OF THE IT'S NOT COMING OUT OF IT OKAY [2:41:30] Joshua L. Nagine: Right, thank you. [2:41:33] David B. Chittim: yes, Councilor Chiddom. Thank you, Councilman Nagine. I want to second with emphasis that saying a mill rate of 1968 when people don't know what their valuations are and they won't know for a month or two is a meaningless number. I would very much like to have a comparison based on the current assessed values as of today, not tomorrow, so that we can see what our tax rate would be doing based on the budget as it stands today. Thank you. So with the removal of [2:42:06] Bryan Kaenrath: The items that I mentioned, it would come down to 1962, and then we did do a calculation. Let me just update the numbers to 1962. So the Assessor went through, and these are just estimates, of course. So if your home was valued at a hundred thousand, [2:42:42] David B. Chittim: Council, yeah, I'm sorry. Mr. Mayor, I don't want to hear this again. I really want to hear what the tax rate would be if there were no revaluation. I understand all the hypotheticals. I would like to know on a mill rate basis how much the tax is increasing based on the current budget. So if we take and put the [2:43:04] Bryan Kaenrath: valuation back to what it was last year, remove the 4.4 million billion that's estimated, your tax rate would be 37 dollars and 29 cents. Thank you. That would be an increase of four dollars and fifty cents, and then thank you, Director Roy. [2:43:23] Carl L. Sheline: Thank you, Councillor Chittim. So we, as mentioned by Administrator Kinrath, we were at 7.1. What are we at now over last year, given the calculations that you just made? 6.6 for the city's operating, 6.6. Okay, Councillor Herman, did you have your hand up [2:43:45] Scott A. Harriman: a second ago? Yeah, I was just going to add sort of the to this conversation about the mill rate and the revaluation on the school committee side. It's making it a little a little difficult, and I know we're sort of in the same situation here without knowing what people's valuations are going to be. It's hard to, it's hard to communicate how much the school budget is going to affect that. I think we're going to be receiving some communication from the school committee about this. I realize it's maybe not something that we can that we can really help just given the timing of things but it does make it gives us less information to work with as far as what different pieces of the budget will what effect they will have on the tax rate and on people's tax bills so it's just a it's a difficult situation to be in without having all that information in [2:44:43] Bryan Kaenrath: front of us like we usually do. Correct, and as I said, we do have estimates. We took three values of what they are currently and what they would be valued at for fiscal year 27 and their increase. So if you look at a home that's a hundred thousand dollars right now has a homestead of eleven thousand seven fifty, because of course we are not fully at the valuation with the state, so they don't give the full exemption. That person's net taxable value is 88 250. For evaluation times our current rate, their bill currently this year is 2 892 84. In their new valuation, their valuation would be 227 300. They would have the full homestead exemption of 25, so their net taxable valuation would be $202,300. So with the current tax rate of $1962, their taxes would be $3,969, which would be an increase of $1,076 annual. So a home that's currently $150,000 with the homestead $11,750, 50 their taxable valuation is 138 250. Currently their current bill is four thousand five hundred and thirty one dollars. Their new valuation in twenty seven is estimated to be three hundred and forty eight thousand eight hundred with the full 25 000 homestead exemption will be 323 800 hundred for taxable rate making their tax current taxes for fiscal year twenty seven six thousand three hundred and fifty two dollars and ninety six cents which is an increase of one thousand eight twenty one twelve on their tax bill for a year. If you have a home that's valued at two fifty two hundred fifty thousand homestead eleven thousand seven fifty, their net taxable was 238 250, so their current taxes are seven thousand eight oh nine eighty four. The evaluation for fiscal year twenty seven it's estimated to be five hundred and eighty one thousand four hundred with a homestead of twenty five thousand making their taxable valuation five hundred and fifty six thousand four hundred making their current their tax bill ten thousand nine hundred and sixteen fifty. That's an increase of 3,000 106 73 for the year. Thank You director [2:47:26] Carl L. Sheline: Councillor Hammond did you have something else? Yes just real quickly and [2:47:30] Scott A. Harriman: I realize this might be more of a question for assessing. Does that do those estimates translate fairly evenly across residential properties like you know not every home is the same there's single families multi-units that [2:47:44] Bryan Kaenrath: translates correct that would be a question for the assessor and we can ask them that but we were looking at okay give us three examples a small a medium and large so that we could get some [2:47:56] Carl L. Sheline: kind of estimate out to you. Okay thank you mr mayor counselor administrator came out to do [2:48:03] Michael R. Roy: something. Yeah i just want to say first of all if it is easier as far as you know consideration and deliberation for the council i think we can talk about using the existing mill rate and existing VALUATION. I THINK WE'RE HEARING THAT KIND OF ACROSS THE COUNCIL. SO NUMBER ONE, MESSAGE HEARD ON THAT. WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT. AND TWO, I JUST WANT TO SAY ALSO, WE ARE LOOKING AT OPTIONS FOR IMPLEMENTATION OF THE REVAL. OBVIOUSLY, THESE ARE SOME BIG NUMBERS THAT WE'RE HEARING. So we're going to be coming back at the appropriate time with just some options to maybe consider with implementation. We don't have all the answers yet, but just know that we're working on that also. Thank you, Council Roy. Did you have your hand up? Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I believe Administrator Keenrath just kind of answered it. I was just going to say, you know, I don't understand why. I mean, we've gone how many years now without an increase, and why all of a sudden we're going 100 full bore instead of doing like a third of it, a third of it, a third of it, you know, just to ease people in, because we've got some real problems here. We've got a lot of money that people are gonna be paying, and I don't see how we can, we can sustain this. I mean, it's not gonna be sustainable for a whole lot of people, and I just, we need some relief in this. So I'm just, thank you for looking into that, and hopefully we get some good answers soon. Yes, we await information [2:49:29] Carl L. Sheline: from our Assessor and administration. Councillor Longchamps, did you have [2:49:33] Susan G. Longchamps: something? Yes, yeah, it just seems like it's doubling, right? Something that was worth a hundred thousand is now even more, two hundred and fifty thousand. That's a lot. It's much needed, I understand that, but it's a lot to ask for from the taxpayers, and I want to thank you for looking into that, council, and a Jean and I were speaking today in regards to this, and I think if there's some way we could do it over two years or three years, or I don't know exactly how that would look, but I think it's critical for our families [2:50:16] Carl L. Sheline: given where we live. So thank you. Yes, I just want to say really quickly one [2:50:25] Joshua L. Nagine: One, whether or not we—Brunswick ruled out a reavow that they paused because of the impacts. Whether or not we either don't put the reavow in place for the following year or we stage it in pieces, there are people who live in my community, who live in our community, that are living on fixed incomes. And when we announce valuations that people don't even actually know their valuation yet, but when they do get that bill in May, they're going to be expected to pay it in September. And I've got folks in my neighborhood who, I've got a family that has a water heater that's broken and they've been boiling water because they don't have the extra money to buy a water heater. So what I'm saying is the offset cost can put people in a really bad spot. We need to think about how we do this in a way that doesn't put people out of their homes. I understand that their valuations are higher, I understand that these homes are worth more, but also a lot of folks can't tap into that equity, especially if you're retired. You're not going to be like, what method do you use in order to tap into the equity of your home when all you have coming in is social security? And so we just need to think about how we roll that out. And I'd also like to say that we pretty soon should start talking about some cuts as well. so, thank you. [2:51:53] Carl L. Sheline: One second, Administrator Kane. Ref, Council, I just want to hear from the rest of the Council really quick and knowing, or acknowledging that the Council that we've also heard concerns from residents, and administration will be looking to into that, but yes, Councilor Martel. Thank [2:52:10] Bret Martel: Thank you Mr. Mayor, I recognize that this is going to be difficult and it feels like it's coming in one fell swoop, but I'm going to be universally against rolling this out in pieces. We've known, I've known about this for years just from Watson City Council meetings. The over the top spending, bloating, funding programs, cuts have to get made. This kind of circles back to a point I would have liked to make during nonprofit presentations was we're looking at cutting or at least I will be staffed positions services within the city, and I think if those are things that we're going to consider and we also need to maybe consider as a city just saying we can't fund nonprofit missions like we understand that these are things that people are passionate about and they all, I don't want to sit up here and parse one's value to the community more than the other, I think that charitable giving is supposed to be voluntary and taxation is compelled. A good place to start before we start cutting staff positions or services to taxpayers would be to start to cut off some of this spending, and I think just a blanket line in the sand saying the city is not going to fund charitable foundations or donate to non-profits, I think would be a good place to start that. There is a way around this evaluation is to really tighten our budget. This spending and the COVID money that was falling from the sky and the positions that were created, the money isn't here and we got used to spending money that we didn't have and drastic cuts is how we can also lessen the blow to our community and our taxpayers. I understand that is going to get ugly in some places, but rolling this out slowly when we're already years and years past state mandates for re-avals is just continuing to kick the can down the road, and I feel like it's just going to enable continued spending and justification of continued spending. When I think the real answer needs to be to tighten our belts and make some difficult cuts and start Living and spending as a city like a normal budget does at home. My colleague mentioned a resident that couldn't afford a water heater right now So they're not going out and buying a water here that 's unfortunate But if we don't have the money to do things we shouldn't be doing them and we've been doing it for far too long so I think that the better way, the more fiscally responsible way, the way that a family home budget would do it is you've got to find a difference between wants and needs. And I know that line gets blurry sometimes, but we're going to have to make some of those tough decisions. There is a way to alleviate some of this increase, and that's by getting our spending in line. And I stand by that. And as difficult as this may be it's time for this reeval to happen and we can't blame all of the impact on the reevaluation. The spending has been happening for years if not decades over administrations from both sides of the aisle and this is a problem that's been brewing. No one on this diocese is directly responsible but if we wanted to roll this out in parts this should have been something we looked at a couple years ago when we knew this was coming not a last second bail to save our spending and I just can't see it any [2:55:49] Carl L. Sheline: other way thank you council Martel concert shouldn't did you have something or did councillor long champs final thoughts from you yes I do agree with [2:56:02] Susan G. Longchamps: some of what councillor Martel has shared. I do think in some areas we definitely have overspent but it is not the homeowner's fault that we did not do this two or three years ago so there are a lot of people here that are on fixed incomes and i'm really talking about our elderly people that will not be able to afford this in one shot that I could imagine. It's tough enough to live on the budget that they are living on. So although I do agree with some of the statements that he has shared, I do think we do need to make some tough cuts. I think it has to be done. And I do think the non-profits I do agree with some of that, but again these homeowners and taxpayers did not ask for this. They didn't say hey put a pause on it or don't do it for x amount of years. So we're going to literally drive people out of their homes because they're not going to be [2:57:25] Michael R. Roy: You have a try to be quick with this one. This budget that we have in front of us that is up we'll say like five point two nine or six point one or whatever it is six point six. Okay so at this point is that only an increase in steps Cola's medical prices all that stuff. There's nothing else in here like that's it. I Would say pretty much Tracy you can add your two cents on this one. We've our goal was to get this down as lean as possible without impacting current staff in positions and that's largely what we have here. I think there are a couple small areas for additional savings with some you know initiatives this year for example the take home cruisers proposal, but everything else beyond this point we're going to start cutting out current people in positions [2:58:18] Carl L. Sheline: And I would also well sorry Director Roy you first then I'll say something or did you have [2:58:23] Bryan Kaenrath: Anything else to add to that. Nope just the take-home vehicles are the only thing that's left on the sheet that we had when we were looking at the cuts and what remind me what we're looking [2:58:36] Michael R. Roy: At for an increase please just a kind of like a rough number percentage. Yeah for the operating at six point 6.6. Well just for those vehicles like what are we looking at if we took that out we would go from six point six to what six point three. So there is the amount [2:59:00] Bryan Kaenrath: Of four ninety four hundred ninety thousand nine forty eight. However you need to decide whether you're gonna put any vehicles back in. You don't have to put the full fourteen in, but I would say take a look at the list that the chief sent you today and because the all the other items within that amount that if the take-home vehicles don't pass are already in the budget except for the vehicles and the other the radios the two last numbers at the bottom those are not in the budget all the other Numbers are already in the budget, so your budget wouldn't increase that. 930, I think that was sent out. 903, 908. It would just be for the vehicles and the radios and cameras, and that's on a decision on the council whether they want to put the full amount of vehicles back at 14, or if you want to take a look at what she gave you for a list and then add that back in, or you could not add it back in. It's all up to city council what you want to do with your budget. All right, so if we just said, you know, take that [3:00:21] Michael R. Roy: out and we're not going to add anything, you'd probably see maybe a decrease in maybe point. I'm just asking, you know, I'm just trying. Yeah. [3:00:31] Carl L. Sheline: Counselors, sorry, Counselor Roy, are you, are you finished? Thank you, counselors. If I may, so we're waiting to hear back from the Assessor and administration about possible ideas for implementation of the reval. I think once we, once we hear that back, then we can have a discussion about where we want to go with this budget, if we are looking at further cuts and so on and so forth. But at this point, I would say we call it a night. Councillor Nagy, did you have a final thought? I did, so [3:01:10] Joshua L. Nagine: just to speak concerning the water heater analogy, the city can't be the broken water heater. The broken water heater is a situation where you didn't budget for it and now it's an unexpected cost. And so ultimately what we're talking about, the periods in which we need to, right now you couldn't apply for a homestead exemption if you haven't already. Right now you couldn't apply for the tax credit Fairness Act if you haven't already. So these are, these are, these are serious things. And then when we also talk about community organizations as opposed to nonprofits, Seniors Plus is this community Unity organization, Seniors Plus could work with us in order to get the messaging out to seniors concerning what's gonna happen with their tax rates. Ultimately, what we're going to see, no matter what, is a reduction in services with an increase in costs. That's what's gonna happen. And so the question is, how impactful is that going to be as we go through it? But I just wanted to name those things. There's a thousand ways to skin a cat. But at the end of the day, the cat is the taxpayer right now. [3:02:21] Carl L. Sheline: Okay, on that note, thank you. I was just gonna move to adjourn. We're in a workshop, so we don't need to move to adjourn, although did we need, Madam Councillor Martel, you bring up an interesting point. Did we need to move to adjourn the special meeting that we had? No, you Essentially did once you started the workshop okay well look at that we're incredibly efficient this evening councillors I appreciate you all staff thank you very much we will see everyone back here yeah not on for this Thursday but we'll be back next Tuesday and Thursday and Thursday yes yeah we'll be here a lot just look on the city's website thank you good night lowston