Gorham committee reviews school traffic, sidewalk and funding plans

[0:00] Councilor Sims: So we'll call our meeting to order here for our Capital Improvements and Economic Development Committee. We've got myself, Councilor Sims, and Councilor Hamlin here. Councilor Wills was unable to join us today. So we've got our town staff as well. So our first item will be to consider the minutes of our last meeting from August 20th. Councilor Hamlin, any comments on those? No, I'm fine with them. All right, I'll lift the motion to approve those minutes. I'll second that. All right. All in favor? Both of us? We're good to go. 2-0. All right. So, now we'll get into our current business. We've been on traffic improvements around Gordon High School. Evan, take it away. [0:42] Terry: Thank you. We were hoping to have another drone video, but due to the weather or some conflicting meetings, we didn't get the drone up in time. But we'll get a video on that at some point. We haven't done, the public first did the one-way as everyone knows. I think this conversation will be more for the public watching. Initially there was a little confusion. There still is from what I understand if you get early in the morning or on a weekend people may choose to ignore the one-way. I've seen a [1:13] Councilor Sims: couple people ignore it. At least they go a little slower. Yeah that's kind of happen. [1:20] Terry: So we, meaning Terry and I, had a conversation about how to approach that task and essentially what was decided was we're just gonna start with paint because that section really was in pretty rough shape. We know it's gonna have to get paved in the next year or two, probably with some tip funds, but we can let, we can try it and then before we pave it again and make it more permanent it or have to change it later and block out the paint see how it works so we've done a couple [1:50] Speaker C (unidentified): of months right a couple two weeks yeah like so we could give it six months for people [1:56] Councilor Sims: to figure it out so you're just thinking some directional paint there on that on that approach [2:00] Terry: well right now they have paint that kind of narrows up the intersection yeah when it's repaved you actually take the pavement out you restructure it a little bit but you need to see right there like in that it's starting to spider crack everywhere so that section is pretty bad [2:15] Speaker D (unidentified): What you're really going to have to do when that road ever gets redone to do this the right way is the corner there is going to have to be eliminated. You have to really narrow up the pavement there. So it's important, you know, virtually impossible to put a curve there or something so people, they can't be two-way traffic. You're going to have to go in the other lane physically to get through the other one way. But I think for right now what we've been out there, what I have seen and the feedback that I have got, yeah, there's no other than a few stragglers and the kids trying to be creative the first week of school. I don't think it worked out very well for them, but yeah. [2:51] Councilor Sims: Yeah, I think it's working pretty good. So they have, there's a little article there in the Gordon Times for a little additional awareness amongst the public, so that's good. It'll [3:00] Terry: like Terry alluded to, like the kids were backing into spots so that they could drive the opposite way when they left it, but that only lasts about a week. I think maybe the SROs talk to them about following the law, so they're starting to, we'll see how the parking, that was never meant to solve the parking problem, but it added more parking spaces. This time of year isn't bad. It's the spring when all the kids progressively throughout the year, more and more kids driving, so we'll see how that works out. We had talked about and we haven't taken any action on it. Because at the end of the day, it may impact the neighborhoods more. But we had talked about putting the three-way, all-way stop at Laurel and Ball Park. That's still something we could do. But it's one of those, when school's not in session, it's just going to affect everybody. So it's just one of those we're just kind of hanging on to that we had talked about. [3:52] Councilor Sims: I think with the public reception of Robie Park, it's been great. So I think even when school's out, people will be using it. So I don't think it would hurt to have that stop sign there to slow cars down. I would generally be in favor of some stop signs there. [4:12] Speaker D (unidentified): Is this traffic calming you're trying to? [4:14] Councilor Sims: Yeah,, yeah, whether it's stop signs or something else. [4:16] Speaker D (unidentified): Stop signs by the MTCDU are not going to be used for traffic calming. Oh, I see. It's technically legal. We have it in some spots, but it's technically legal. Somebody could challenge you. Oh, I see. [4:27] Terry: Okay. So what you would, what that improvement would be would be this specific departure times. They would, as you all know, people who's pulling, they inch forward in that intersection. He would make it one of those you need to wait for the next part and the next part and the next part and take turns progressing through that intersection versus right now everybody on moral. Yeah, people are pretty good about letting people out, but as a traffic backs up, could you, I know. [4:54] Councilor Sims: You know, the one thing that seems to be really effective over by the middle school with the, where the little walking trail connects to the sidewalk on Solomon Drive there, you got the painted crosswalk with that sign in the middle of the road, that little sign that just, you know, waist high, and it's like the, it's just like, you know, for pedestrians. [Speaker E (unidentified): Yeah,.] Would that be a possibility somewhere on Borough Avenue? [5:23] Terry: I don't know, there's no crosswalk on the other side of the road, the artist sidewalk on the other side of the road, that's the, yeah, so that one here, yeah, there's. [5:31] Councilor Sims: Usually there's that little, it's a, you can take it out, it's a removable little plastic sign in the. [5:35] Terry: Middle. Oh yeah, but there's no, I don't think there's any crosswalks except at the end of the road. Okay, that one would be destroyed, it's not wide enough. Yeah, but the, you know, the. [5:47] Councilor Sims: Trade-off there. So let's say a car destroys that thing, likely that car will be going slower the next time it goes to the intersection. I wouldn't say cars, I'd say buses. [5:58] Terry: The buses can't make a turn. They couldn't make that turn if there was a. I don't think there's any. [6:04] Speaker F (unidentified): Crosswalks because there's no sidewalks. The only sidewalk goes into this neighborhood over here. We have talked in the past about getting that sidewalk ballpark, but to Ephraim's point, we're not crossing Morrill at that point, it's really just a crossing of ballpark, unless we, that's on our list here, just. [6:28] Terry: Especially with all the use of the park now. Yeah, I think we'll definitely keep. [6:34] Speaker G (unidentified): Getting more use of the park, which is great. Going back to the high school part, when they repave that, are they looking at redoing the lights and there, because driving through there at night, to me that's what it's like to that parking lot, barely light anything. I don't think it's about a plan, Tom, I. [6:54] Speaker D (unidentified): Haven't seen the most current plan, like I think it's just drainage, those LED are. [7:00] Speaker G (unidentified): They high-pressure sodium, high-pressure sodium, yeah, they're like orange and they barely light up anything. In retrofit those, I know it doesn't look like it because I was driving through there the other night after the, after the east west corridor, it was packed, the parking lot is packed. I, you can't see anybody walking through there is like, and then with the intersection, I was just thinking like just lighting that area better. [7:23] Speaker F (unidentified): Would hopefully, yeah, my guess is the lowest cost would be thing to do would be to try to replace those heads with it. [7:38] Terry: While parking, so you probably all see people parking on bench, the grass to use the park, so I think we're going to hit whatever plans materialize to put a sidewalk down here. We may try to incorporate that into it because it's, it's a natural organic place that people can get off their own, they're utilizing it. I think, do we pull the parking signs out, I. [8:13] Speaker D (unidentified): Can't remember, was there no parking signs? There's no parking, it just got the other sounds in. [8:17] Terry: Yesterday, so the new signs are going on, yeah, so it works. And but when we put a sidewalk through there, we'll have to probably bump it out a little bit to put some parking, but people also park in the municipal center, which is fine. [8:31] Speaker D (unidentified): It'll be good to give a perception of the roads narrowed out, which we won't narrow the roadway out a lot when we put the sidewalk in, but allowing them to park on the street then next to the sidewalk will certainly, yeah, give a perception that's a narrow roadway. Agree, hopefully we'll give, yeah, people, I like slow down a little bit, yeah, hopefully that's good. I think everyone want to bring the sidewalk right down right now, what we'd like to do is bring it all the way down to it, yeah, oh yeah. [8:59] Speaker E (unidentified): That's right for the one, you know, you have a party, don't be able to have some. [9:02] Councilor Sims: money for parking my parking spots there and you said that 's a pass money is [9:08] Terry: That the packs money, I should say, not that one, that's not packs red, so that a hundred percent beyond the town. Hello there, oh hi, we're just talking about the high school. [9:17] Speaker E (unidentified): Area, yeah, sorry, since we're right here, I don't want to get too far up with this. [9:24] Speaker D (unidentified): Crosswalk crosses here to the municipal center side. We are going to, before we get out of summer, construction is create a sidewalk in the grass on the left-hand side so that there's actually a place for the crosswalk to land and people to walk. Yeah, where that grass area is going to be paved with a connection to the sidewalk that goes behind the building so they can access the economic sidewalk. Yeah, that goes around the municipal center, but right now we have to, yeah, come out into the market and that's a terrible situation. I think it was around [10:01] Terry: coven. We actually, you actually couldn't walk back there in the past. There was a chain like fence across it. We opened it up. Yeah, that's a useful little walkway. It's useful until you go to open the door and an e-bike goes by at about 20 miles an hour. [10:14] Councilor Sims: That is definitely the day. I think there should be little signs up on the doors there. [10:19] Terry: Well, it leaves me at the start and finish. I almost hit a woman the other day. I mean, not that I just swung the door open quickly, it's just you can't see anyone. [10:28] Councilor Sims: It's completely blind. Yeah, that's definitely a little bit of an accident waiting to happen there, but I will say for you know for anybody doing that, it definitely feels safer to do that than [10:38] Speaker F (unidentified): to go driving to the parking lot, so yeah. So what's the, just the reality of not considering costs, yeah, is this a candidate for an RFB, do you think, Terry? I ask because it's more and more people parking in the Municipal Center. I would say yes. I would say yes. I know [11:00] Speaker D (unidentified): it's a me, it's a high cost, and that would be the first one on the local road [11:05] Speaker G (unidentified): right, most of our fees are on state. I can't help you out with any rectangular [11:12] Speaker F (unidentified): rapid-flashing beacons. Sure. Oh yeah, is there one on your truck maybe the only [11:22] Terry: one, but I think the school department paper that one [11:26] Speaker G (unidentified): yeah, but is that the one in the blue shirt [11:30] Terry: yeah, but there's, yeah, all the other ones are on state. It says we leverage money to get them right there [11:43] Speaker D (unidentified): 20. Well, that's just, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to guess what the number is today, but I know in the springtime the last set I bought, which we bought a set for the crosswalk at USM, it was 20,000. [11:55] Councilor Sims: Not installed. Well, I would say that might be another one where, you know, I mean, I think that those flashing beacons are definitely ideal, but again, there might be other places where we need them more. I think this would be another good spot, since we don't have the buses coming here, if we just had one of those little waist-high little plastic yielded pedestrian signs in the middle of that one. That might be an easier thing to do, less expense, near-term. Yeah, we could. [12:23] Terry: We do have buses going down there, but it's wide enough for buses to get around. It's the corners with the speed that's the problem with a larger vehicle. Gotcha. [12:32] Councilor Sims: I mean, I think for the most part, because we use that crosswalk to bike to Village School in the morning and afternoon. It's a very popular crossing. Yeah, I think, you know, I don't necessarily see a whole lot of cars going very fast down that road in my experience. That's not to say that there aren't other times of day when they are going faster. [12:49] Speaker H (unidentified): Yeah, I can say that. I've been nervous a couple of times myself because that's how I get to the high school record board meetings and such. [12:56] Speaker F (unidentified): It's as much for the people walking as well. Yeah. Because if you're walking and there's an RFB, there's something to push, it gives people more of a confidence level to walk up, push it, and go across. Because I've seen, having kind of kept my eye on it since Robie Park was open, there's a lot of diagonal crosses there. There's a lot of people departing the actual crosswalk. And not that it's it's quicker I do it I mean it's a confidence level thing but if you give them the here's the flashing beacon it gets people a little bit more [13:27] Speaker H (unidentified): Like oh I want to go push this and walk you're here. It forces them to stop too, but yeah what I noticed this summer with Roeby Park, my goodness gracious, the number of people that would walk between Roeby Park and Baxter Library was just incredible. [13:40] Speaker C (unidentified): On foot. Where do they park to use your Roeby Park? Sometimes in the municipal center [13:46] Speaker H (unidentified): Sometimes they were parking up along the side there, sometimes people were parking because high school's not in session, they were parking along the side of the high school, and they were walking back and forth between Baxter Library and the park. I went there with my granddaughter one day and I can't tell you the number of people that were like, oh we'll go to the park, we'll go to the library next, or yeah. [14:03] Councilor Sims: Yeah, right. Using it as a do both. That's great. I've actually, and this is just my anecdotal experience, but I feel like I'm usually experiencing cars going faster on the cross on the other side of Roving Park towards the high school because people are coming from Access Road and then they're like, oh, I have to go this way. It's funny because I experience the opposite. Yeah, really? I think it's more speed. Okay, well, I think at least on the other side, on the other side, you do have the other cars parked because the parallel parking is theoretically narrow the road, but that's only when during school hours when the cars actually park there. [14:39] Speaker H (unidentified): Although in the summertime now will be perfect, they're killing that spot, they are, so we did, Heather, we talked a [14:45] Councilor Sims: little bit about the one-way traffic flow thing from your side to the school, no complaints, so that's that's good. I think all in all it's generally a successful rollout, so that's [14:58] Speaker G (unidentified): good. Do you see like a lot of the parents now going to their hands and like work? I see a lot [15:04] Speaker H (unidentified): of families that are, it depends on the time, but it's great when the buses are offloading. I'm noticing a lot of parents will scoot back around the access and go that way if it's not, like if they're earlier or a little later, they'll go, they'll go right up the access road as well, so kind of a combination where [15:24] Terry: you came in, we're talking, do you know if the parking [15:28] Speaker H (unidentified): project of the high school includes new lighting it 's got some small electrical but i 'm pretty sure it's not it's not only for yeah there's some electrical pieces in [15:37] Speaker G (unidentified): there, but it's not, and those aren't LEDs, right? Those with the old school, I think [15:42] Speaker C (unidentified): those are old school, yes, orange [15:46] Speaker F (unidentified): glow for Halloween ever seen the images of when all cities went from high-pressure sodium LEDs go look at those old imagery like the satellite imagery from it 's incredible well it's basically it goes from an orange-lit city to bright white and it's just a huge change in visibility. Obviously you have to you have to pair that with light pollution and trying not to make your neighbors mad but still. I think I can talk to Kevin because he did a lot of the retrofits around here, but I think these heads can get pretty easily swapped out. Should all be, it's a reduction of blottage when you go to the other. [16:36] Speaker H (unidentified): I'm not aware. I can't think off the top of my head that the poles themselves, the structures are in horrible shape at this point. [16:43] Speaker F (unidentified): Yeah, probably. They're all in islands, I think, so. [16:45] Speaker G (unidentified): No, it was just, when I made a comment, because I was coming out of the public area for East, West, or West, Portland West, whatever you call it now, it was, there was a parking lot that was full of kids and stuff, and those lights are, don't adequately light the whole parking lot. No, they're not great. So I was like, with the lane and then people, is there a way we get like that done? [17:09] Speaker H (unidentified): That's a good question and I would love to have that conversation because I mean even myself if I'm walking between the municipal office and the high school for an evening meeting, I will always go through Roby and State. That's not well-lit at all. Oh yeah. Right. [17:24] Speaker F (unidentified): Are you guys eligible for a deficiency meeting? [17:26] Speaker H (unidentified): We have, although we relatively recently did a project with the high school, it was probably seven years ago I think we maxed out is there [17:38] Councilor Sims: a is there a reset after a certain [17:40] Speaker H (unidentified): number of years we've done we've done several projects not just high school we did a project with Narragansett and Great Falls as well so it would be a good normal conversation yeah all right [17:53] Councilor Sims: okay so that all sounds good enough so yeah so then so as so you all were saying that we did the beacon there at the crosswalk, now we need to get creative about the funding source, because we wouldn't be able to start getting very [18:11] Terry: creative, because a lot of these projects are training our resources substantially. I mean, Robey Park went over slightly. South Street didn't go as far as we thought with the money. That's been funny. [18:23] Councilor Sims: Yeah, I know there was that, I think the program name has changed with the current administration, but there was. San Francisco? [18:32] Terry: school the city yeah so they changed it and then you have to get into the work plan so it's not yeah we did reach out and so yeah it's like a three-year look at yeah it's not one of these you apply for it give the money right but it [18:46] Councilor Sims: is a that 's that's what it can be applied to the local roads as well [18:50] Terry: right yeah I mean really the low-hanging fruit for this one if we do investments in future years like the pen lighting could be later it doesn't have necessarily done during that work in TIF funding. It's in the TIF district. [19:05] Councilor Sims: Well, you know, the observation I'll make, in lieu of funding for the more, you know, obviously the beacons are nice and they look good, just the traffic cones that you all put out to get people from going into the one-way, like, little things, just a traffic cone out there in the road, people notice that and it slows them down. So you know you could even just I mean just a little experimentation with like I said I mean I don't know a traffic code out in the middle of the [19:40] Terry: crosswalk just to see if it slows people down yeah we can try that different times of the year yeah nothing new is going out actually when are you pulling down the pedestrian signs the crosswalk ones the crosswalk signs the delineators when do you when you pull out everything on the road from Long Beach I remember it won't be till So just future in this area we know on the town roads that are not being included in the school's bond for the high school paving yeah there's a lot of paving that needs to happen it's gonna have to come out of tip money because we're struggling to fund our other capital needs elsewhere in town right so Moral Abza, Contender, Ballpark is in better shape but it's gonna need a sidewalk the upper side of ballpark or the access road section definitely needs to be redone yeah and it's going to be on the list and it's in the 10th [20:35] Councilor Sims: district so yeah probably use 10 months for it yeah I think I've seen some other projects that look like that they generally like the towns referred to it like me like you know pilot projects or something like just with paint and cones and even hay bales a lot of a lot of companies and hay bales to kind of like [20:50] Terry: All fun games until you hit a hay bale when you're about to do it. [20:53] Councilor Sims: Well, I think we should at least just be open to... I thought it went well. What you all did with the paint codes up there, the one-way, worked really well. [21:02] Terry: What do you think that cost is, just ballparking the paint? Not our labor, but... The paint? That would be perfect. [21:10] Speaker D (unidentified): It's probably tied up to, I estimate, it's probably five gallons of paint. [21:16] Terry: Plus our labor, so it's relatively cost-effective. [21:18] Speaker D (unidentified): Yeah, but it doesn't sound like a lot of money. When your paint line is maxed out, you know, a couple hundred dollars in signs, you know, one-way signs, things like that. [21:32] Terry: So it's, you know, it's a little bit of money here and there. Right. [21:35] Speaker C (unidentified): Do we have any areas we consider problem areas or close to people getting accidents? [21:42] Terry: Well, I think there's different degrees of that. I mean you have at a higher level high crash locations based on data that we submit, that law enforcement submits to DOT, and you have little areas of local concern that aren't, don't have that designation, and then high traffic areas like this that have the potential but we don't, you know, things already happening, but yes, there's a couple hundred kids that walk back and forth, yeah, you know, it's not necessarily a high crash location but an area of concern that [22:16] Speaker C (unidentified): So, we're being proactive in all these discussions? [22:21] Terry: Well, yeah, I would say proactive in knowing that we're going to have to make investments in areas of facilities that were designed 20 or even higher schools, you know, back in the 90s. 30-something years ago was the last major refurb of the area. So, we know that it's just a different dynamic. [22:44] Speaker F (unidentified): I don't know if you've seen this, Charlie. Generally, this is the main VOT. [22:49] Terry: VOT has a lot of good data. [22:51] Speaker F (unidentified): Yeah, so this is the high crash location query tools you can select. They do it on a rolling three-year study, so 23, 24, 25 is the most recent data. And then they designate different intersections and segments. Right now this is just intersections as high crash locations based on a number of different factors, which is total crashes, injuries and fatalities, and then it gives you basically a math formula gives you a number and whether or not you're over, under determines whether or not you're a high crash location, so you can see just buzzing through here, Bracken, Saco Street, Blue Ledge, County Road, South Street, so that's the overlap, then you've got Washburn, McClellan, I mean it's all, we all know these intersections pretty well, right, I mean that they're, they're heavily trafficked, a lot of peak hour traffic, so you've got people commuting going high speeds and trying to get to work or get home, so bracket in Saco is [23:54] Terry: a perfect example, so this data goes back to, starts at 2023, when did we do that project, 2023, yeah, so a lot of those crashes, not to say that you don't have serious crashes at some of these intersections, but bracket in Saco was a lot of traffic in the intersection headed south to Portland that did not have a slip lane, so people were rear-ending each other all the time, and we were able to leverage that crash data with, was that a MPI project, MPI project to put a slip lane in, so you now have a Designated left turn lane, that designated right turn lane, so it's not one of these you're pulling up and then not paying attention to rear-end somebody and not, so again, it's not that people were getting in a horrible rucks there all the time, right? But it was a, there was a lot of relatively probably minor wrecks that resulted in whiplash and things [24:48] Speaker F (unidentified): like that. It's an interesting tool because you can play around, like I'm doing right now, with what you're selecting. [25:05] Councilor Sims: People getting out of the high school, like traffic, the cars are going slow, so if there is some sort of collision of cars, you're not going to have like a serious injury most likely, so that the worst crashes happen when cars are going very fast. [25:21] Speaker C (unidentified): So you assume they track this data from the police reports? Yeah, it's all [25:26] Speaker F (unidentified): all the police reports get fucked up. No, but I would draw attention, as you can see, to Ephraim's point, the percent injury back in the 2016 to 2018 year is 45.5. When you go to the current data set here, while it's still a high crash location and the number of crashes may seem the same or similar, the percent injury, I think, is down to 16.7. So that's, again, it's not just about, like, people are going to get in fender benders, right? But it's like a roundabout, you know, it's eliminating your side [26:03] Speaker C (unidentified): impact. Let's feel good, you make a difference if you recognize that you fix [26:08] Speaker D (unidentified): it and it improves. If you have to take some of this information and really dig into it, right? I mean, yes, they're identifying accents with this table, doesn't identify, yeah, it's what the cause is, right? You know, the fire department stuff, I know Bracken Sarko was a good place for somebody who was in page non-stop at the stop sign, ended up, oh, that's an accident that wouldn't come up here. So I mean, it's a great tool, we look at it a lot, but it's just, you really need to dig into some of these statistics to see what, yeah, right, you know, is it a roadway cause, is it a design cause, or just you [26:45] Speaker C (unidentified): know, it's a good leading indicator, yes, but then you have to understand what's really happening. [26:50] Speaker D (unidentified): You look, I think Gray Road, the roundabout in Gray and 237, which is a fairly high crash area, but it's all minor accidents. [26:59] Terry: The roundabout's too small to pay attention to. Right. [27:03] Speaker C (unidentified): I hear police and fire trucks going back and forth all day long, I assume for accidents, right there. It's a very busy intersection. [27:11] Speaker F (unidentified): This is the segment section of it, so this is not limited to intersections. So, God, mechanic. [27:18] Terry: Funny enough, stuff falls out of it. [27:20] Speaker F (unidentified): You're like really mechanic and new Portland road and intersection of new Portland and Pinecone, that's a bunch, cool county river Hodgson, cool stuff. There's a project that we just completed in the county where they're Hodgson. It's good to see the percentage. Yeah, that was one of his [27:41] Terry: little ones we were able to get some money for. Yeah, well, [27:45] Councilor Sims: so while we've got Heather here, do you want to chat quickly about the village, the White Birch driveway there, when we go where we have though? [27:52] Terry: Yeah, so I think Terry and crew have a plan. Terry can talk about that plan. There's actually more ambitious than I thought we were going to be. The paving, the general paving on the site was done before school started. Okay, on the, on the parking lot. Yeah, Terry can go over that and I guess Terry [28:08] Speaker D (unidentified): can go over the plans. We actually added some parking on the right-hand side of the driveway. Oh yeah, yep. And we ended up, we just in the last couple weeks finished some striping in there that we didn't really realize existed until after the fact. So that portion of it is, from my standpoint, complete. One thing we did on the design of the original parking lot that I did not like, and we changed it, had a sidewalk coming across the entire parking lot with an island put in there. And to me, that's not the place you want the kids. With the amount of traffic in and out of that school, you don't want the kids and people walking across the parking lot. So we redesigned it so the sidewalk comes up the side of the parking lot [28:54] Terry: looks on to the minimize how many times you have to cross though. Yeah, which also [28:59] Speaker D (unidentified): is lighting up that side of the parking lot so it will be lit and kids and people not saying they're going to use it because they'll probably walk across the parking lot anyway. Yeah, we certainly should provide them what I consider a much safer avenue to get around that school. Construction plan going ahead as we plan to start it this fall. I would think in the next couple weeks we're going to work as much as we can until the weather chain changes so we can't work. We're still waiting on concrete. Structures and pole bases to come in. That's one of the reasons we haven't got going on it and some other road work in the actual road system we've tried to get done before, but we can work come there when the weather allows us this fall. So I would think like springtime, it will end in the springtime. This is what we'll start in the springtime on this project. So that will be finished probably by the time school gets settled next spring. [29:58] Speaker H (unidentified): Can you remind me, Terry, what's the plan with the connector? What's that, the pavement with, yeah, for the road like going between, oh, you the distance, no. With the pavement. Yes, so the traffic. Like, is it two-way, one-way? [30:14] Speaker F (unidentified): Yes, it's 16 feet, so it's able to handle bi-directional traffic. [30:18] Speaker H (unidentified): But it's going to be very, tight. But it's uncomfortable. I like uncomfortable. [30:21] Speaker E (unidentified): It will slow down. [30:22] Speaker D (unidentified): And with a five-foot sidewalking curb. Yeah. Okay. [30:25] Speaker F (unidentified): Yeah, so you have physical impediments on, if you're heading towards White Birch on the left-hand side. [30:29] Speaker D (unidentified): It's going to be narrow by design. Because one of the concerns was that traffic coming up through the, it's going to be very, I think it's going to be very uncomfortable to drive in. Two way up through there, so right. [30:43] Councilor Sims: And do we, and so is the plan, there is gonna be a sidewalk? Yep. Okay, cool. [30:47] Speaker D (unidentified): So all the way. So sidewalk and lighting all the way. On the ball field side. [30:51] Councilor Sims: Cool. So it's gonna be, the sidewalk's gonna come from here, and then the whole thing's gonna go here, basically. Yep. [30:58] Speaker C (unidentified): That's gonna be a public road or a sidewalk? [31:00] Terry: Or will you drive by it? [31:01] Speaker F (unidentified): It's a public driveway, yeah. It's a public driveway. Yeah, it's not gonna be a named road, much like your parking lot is. Like it's basically just a connection between so is it meant to have access to [31:12] Speaker C (unidentified): village school you want to accept I to escape village school it's gonna end [31:17] Speaker F (unidentified): before it's both ways little column a little column yeah okay it's gonna end [31:21] Speaker D (unidentified): in the parking lot Charlie is there's no direct connection to white first lane it's gonna end in the parking lot so when the parking lot is all done there's gonna be one entrance to the parking lot so you want to use that roadway you're gonna have to go into the parking lot on White Birch Lane and traverse through the parking lot. [31:40] Councilor Sims: You could do it, 's just gonna be, you know. I believe that the village school team is hoping to use that as the, they're planning to direct parent pickup cars to use that driveway. Oh, I would, yeah, because you're gonna have way more space. Then you'll separate the buses from the parent pickup, so that's the idea there. And that parking lot, it used to be dirt. [32:02] Terry: We have some money. Do you remember the amount, Tom? Sixty grand. [32:08] Speaker G (unidentified): Well, we're willing for that money. [32:11] Terry: Yeah, as part of the Robie Heights development, a part of their contract zone was where they would contribute to this parking lot requirement. [32:19] Speaker C (unidentified): You guys work on fun stuff. I didn't know this. This is great. So the Prusumskip land there that was donated as a park, where would people park for that parking lot? [32:31] Terry: It's not quite across the street. [32:34] Speaker F (unidentified): We've talked with the regional land trust about they want to put a crossing down in this area. So we've talked to them how they can get up into this parking lot as well. [32:46] Terry: Because you can actually see the boardwalk now, right, that's starting to make its way out. From the parking lot? For the trail network, the grant money that the land trust got. They're working on it right now. [32:58] Councilor Sims: And did the developers do the sidewalk already down this? [33:02] Speaker F (unidentified): Sidewalk's not done, but they will do, I think it's five feet this side, and then they pick up a ten-footer on this side. [33:10] Speaker G (unidentified): I thought I saw the bases. [33:12] Speaker F (unidentified): Yeah, they might have set some structures. [33:15] Terry: That's a larger one, a wider one, right? [33:19] Speaker F (unidentified): On this side, it's 5. On the north side of the parking lot entrance, we asked them to go 10. 10 from Newport Road. [33:31] Terry: White Birch is actually a pretty wide road when you get out. [33:36] Speaker D (unidentified): 360, what, I believe, is the only white birch road. Oh, it's huge. [33:41] Speaker C (unidentified): I was surprised the other day. I had to go to South Street, and I didn't know the address, so I put it at Waves. So from my house, if you know where I am, on Gray Road, had me turn left on Johnson Road, cross Main Street, go to New Portland Road, throw a right, turn a left down Old Puddle Park Road, and then some rights in there. [34:01] Terry: Yeah, it's actually shipping people through the new subdivision already. Yeah, it's kind of weird how Google or Waze or whatever can figure that out. I was very surprised. [34:11] Councilor Sims: Cool. Cool all right, so we're thinking so we're thinking the parking lot that'll get paved first And then the driveway stuff will happen at all being paid at the same time [34:28] Speaker D (unidentified): Small, it's a small project in the area, but there's a lot of drainage work to do. Yeah, again, there's, there's lightning, pedestrian lightning I put in, yeah, and it's a lot. It's gonna take us a bit to get it done. [34:39] Speaker H (unidentified): June of this coming, this coming June or the following June? June of 27. Yeah. So we could, we could think about, if we're thinking about opening the school next year. Yes. And the traffic patterns will be opening the school. That's what we should be doing. [34:52] Speaker D (unidentified): I would think that by the time in September we get to see you next year, that thing would be 100%. And you guys would be able to use that, hopefully, for your parent. They got a drop off, which would make things a lot easier. Yeah. [35:02] Speaker F (unidentified): You can see down here, these plants are, I don't know. [35:05] Councilor Sims: So for this school year, where we're going to go kind of work with the existing, you [35:09] Speaker H (unidentified): Yes, yeah, and that was the plan all along. Yeah. Manage expectations. [35:13] Councilor Sims: You could theoretically, I mean, people can still park in the gravel a lot, right, for now. I mean, there's games and stuff, obviously. [35:19] Speaker D (unidentified): Nothing's changed out there. Right, so. [35:21] Speaker F (unidentified): I think the entrance, this entrance exists now, but you can still get in down here, right? [35:27] Speaker D (unidentified): We haven't done anything to block off that entrance. [35:29] Speaker F (unidentified): But this entrance is there now. Mm-hmm. They [35:39] Councilor Sims: live school every day. And, you know, people, they all, the parents tend to line up in the driveway there, but they could just as easily, they could park, they could park there at the White Perch Lane parking lot, they could park on the Elm Street or Rebel Street and come right up and just take the kid from that, and they went to sit in the traffic, but some people are actually doing that, they've realized like, wait a second, there's a better way here, so but yeah, that'll be nice to have that. Okay, cool, so that's helpful to understand the timing of that, so great, are there any other [36:13] Speaker H (unidentified): questions from the school side? No, we're just very thankful for the work that's been done and what's going to happen moving along and happy to understand the timeline so I can manage those expectations and we'll be good. Yeah, we're very happy with it. [36:26] Speaker D (unidentified): We were hoping to get started on before now with our workload and other stuff which has [36:30] Speaker H (unidentified): been too much. We're happy for the work that did get done before school starts. Yeah, for sure that helped. [36:38] Councilor Sims: Okay, great. Alright, well, Efren, what else we got here? [36:44] Terry: Yeah? You had mentioned in an email that you wanted to talk about the area around College Avenue, Church Street. Yes,. [36:51] Councilor Sims: We had, I got a couple of... May I dismiss myself? Yes,, thanks Heather. Yeah, so coming down the hill here, we did get, so we got a couple of residents acknowledging that this is definitely, some people are using this as a cut through, I guess, to avoid the intersection. It's been a cut through for years. probably decades. [37:09] Terry: I would say more than decades. It probably got a little bit of a reprieve when the bypass went in. I think in full transparency, I think we may be seeing part of this increase of use of local roads to bypass state roads because we have altered the pedestrian crossing signals on Main Street, which does impact travel. it down a little so right now all the signals are all or just me just the main one just the main one in the square we've talked about doing the other ones but the problem is coordinating them with the other signals right but right now in the square if you hit the pedestrian crossing button when it eventually gives you the ability to cross everybody has a red light yeah versus as before it was you would yield to pedestrians depending on the cycle right yeah it does back up traffic more not saying that is the only issue causing this but I think you're seeing more yeah more demand and then every time we do a traffic calming or pedestrian signal or pedestrian safety improvements which have an impact on moving traffic people try to find an alternative sure so College Ave I think we have successfully annoyed a lot of people with traffic calming where they reach out they're like I don't like it that's the point right yeah Metro even pushed back was like ah it's the end of the world and we're like no so you bust down well a lot of times that's [38:52] Councilor Sims: still it's still clear I mean like yeah there's only certain times very few [38:56] Terry: times a day where it's just multiple cars and things like that church streets always had a concern one thing that we have talked about internally with staff i talked to terry about the other day you go down the where you turn into the plaza on water street go right down the end we do have a missing piece of sidewalk here yes we've never considered it for a project for some kind of funding because it's just so small so it's still a fair amount of money but it's not like one of those like we're redoing Main Street yeah we know that we need to carve out some TIF funds to do this section [39:34] Councilor Sims: Because it's missing, this is, this is me just kind of, you know, throwing ideas out there. So I'm curious. We obviously, there's an expense associated with the sidewalks. We want to make sure, I think we put in the sidewalks, we want to make sure there's good drainage too, because like the beach range, that's, I'm not, that doesn't that [39:51] Speaker D (unidentified): place doesn't concern me. Luke's, it's a short run. Okay, yeah, there's a catch basin right here, so yeah. And right now it's kind of curved. Yeah, it's kind of not curved, it's really, and why, I mean, we talked about it, yeah, in public works this week about why had we never, and I can't, I have no answer why have we never, yeah, made this connection. Well, those poles are kind of in the, they're in the [40:11] Speaker E (unidentified): way there. Yeah, we can have, I'm not worried about the poles, we can, okay, work around them. Would there [40:16] Councilor Sims: be any places where like, because we've talked about like the pros and cons of, doing like, you know, crosstown trail paved or stone dust, would there be any situations where some of these places where like it'd be nice if we could have a sidewalk, could we do like a stone dress trail on the side instead, and that would be a much higher maintenance because this is so urban in [40:40] Speaker F (unidentified): this area. Yeah, do you care, do you guys plow this? Yeah, so the minute they set any other machinery on that, yeah, we're spending money in this. I think that everybody might push back too and say everybody else got a paved sidewalk. Yeah, I'm not even sure monetarily there would be [40:56] Speaker E (unidentified): much of a savings. Yeah, that's, yeah, because payment time you get done and you're in your cost of [41:01] Speaker D (unidentified): maintaining, you know what I mean? I'm sitting here when you mention that, it's the gee springtime mud. Yeah, listen, right, and I've actually gone to get out there this week and walk this little section of it. Yes, it's a little bit of a project, but well [41:15] Councilor Sims: that might be good. Yeah, and that might, this might be having kind of similar to the conversation on moral app, but like, would there be, I mean, right now it's just, there's no, there's no paint anywhere, there's really no markings, so, like, the cars just kind of fly through if they can get away with it. Is there anything to, like, is that, and, so I know street parking is allowed, but a lot of times there's just not that many cars. [41:43] Speaker F (unidentified): I went down Church Street Monday or Tuesday this week after that email that I had seen from you, and there were some cars parked along this road. I think the thing that I saw here was I really like Church Street in the sense of it's got a sidewalk that's a little elevated on one side. It's a little bit different from some of our other areas of town. I know we don't love esplanades, but this one actually holds up pretty well down through here. So I would be remiss. A lot of our traffic calming and road dieting has been focused on squeezing that sidewalk in, tightening everything up, and making it feel a little bit more urbanized. I'd hate to lose the character of this street is just a nice street the only thing I can think of would be could we do some drainage improvements along here and call them drainage improvements to get you some road dieting or narrowing something to feed again it's a you're not gonna you know you're never gonna get me to say put traffic tables and speed bumps in anywhere that's that's just counterproductive in my opinion but if there's an opportunity to narrow stuff up and even, we don't typically put fault lines on some of these side streets, but even centerline, double-line, centerline striping can force people to say, oh, I need to stay to the right, as opposed to screaming down the middle of a road, which we've all done. If you've got a road and nobody's coming at you, and there's no lines, you just drive down the middle of it. So I think there's some cheaper alternatives, but I wouldn't hate to lose this. This is a great, it's a great-looking road. [43:22] Speaker C (unidentified): So you said Esplanade, is that the grass between the sidewalks? And we don't like that in general? [43:28] Speaker F (unidentified): We've moved away from them in certain locations. You can see all along South Street where it's very difficult to maintain if you don't have a good closed drainage system. And even when you do, you get a lot of issues with trying to maintain an 18-inch to 24-inch strip of grass. It often falls a lot on the homeowners, and if homeowners don't keep it up, they don't get good grass, they let it die. That just becomes a mud pit, and so it says my next question, who maintains us? I mean, ever to the back of the sidewalk, it's us. But that's not like Terry's crew mows, tries to get everything once a year, twice a year, but there's enough to her roads. Are we trying to choice you? Yes, so mowing twice a year is not going to work for people's front yards. So generally they do, but they, you know, homers, I kill grass all the time, so yes, that's not be a candidate for a curve. [44:19] Speaker D (unidentified): And some drainage. The issue with the drainage here is I believe we've got a ledge close to top [44:26] Speaker E (unidentified): of the ground. I think you can limit [44:28] Speaker D (unidentified): the way you put drainage, but you can put some drainage in probably halfway up. But if you curb that, even if you didn't narrow the pavement up, you put curving on a road, I can't. Perception is, oh, now I've got a barrier on both sides of the road. Yeah, I can't. Even with on-street parking, well now people on parking on the Esplanade and Grassy parking in the roadway, which is a form of traffic. So that would be my personal vote for something like this, and unfortunately it's not a super cheap option, but it is an option. [45:06] Speaker F (unidentified): Siding is also an option, too. [45:08] Councilor Sims: Siding is a relatively cheap option, but not a lot of people pay attention to it. Yeah, I think some sort of markings on the street might be worth thinking about, like you were talking there, Chuck. In lieu of the larger, you know, strange project, something you and Terry are generally aligned on, so that sounds good to me. [45:27] Speaker F (unidentified): Striping is an annual cost, too. You've got to do it every year. This being The Village, I think you guys hit The Village on heavy every year, right? with all the striping, so even though doing it once might cost $1,500 in paint, that $1,500 is going to be every single year. Yeah. Ooh, well. [45:48] Speaker C (unidentified): So is it a problem today, or is this an opportunity to make things better? [45:54] Speaker F (unidentified): My general sense is Ephraim's probably spot on. With the change in flow in the downtown area, you probably have just seen an uptick in people trying to navigate that. Will it remain? remain. Maybe, not. My guess is our traffic problems are not going down. They're just going to continue to go up in any capacity. But I think before going and spending $150,000 redoing this whole road, I think there's probably some low-hanging fruit to take care of. Do we use radar strictly enforced signs anywhere? Like speed strictly enforced? Like those MUTCD signs that basically are kind of full of crap most of the time, but they say like speed limit strictly enforced. [46:42] Speaker D (unidentified): Well, we have some read back signs around. [46:45] Speaker F (unidentified): I know, the radar signs, but there's a sign and literally all it says is speed limit strictly enforced. It deems nothing without enforcement. [46:56] Speaker G (unidentified): There's a police trailer out there. [46:58] Councilor Sims: Yeah, that would be good. But what about those, I mean, that's definitely an option and then you can just throw stuff out. I mean those there's a handful of those signs now where it's like bikes can use full like lane I mean even like just some sort of sign to share the road signs I guess might not be a bad idea then I know I'm selling a broken record here but I do think part of the issue if you just turn 390 degrees I think part of the issue is just because people are either they're coming you know they're coming down the hill and that's when they're going fast so maybe one of those little things in the middle of the crosswalk, the pedestrian sign there, that might just help people turning that way to slow down. That might be an interesting... You can have those. [47:44] Speaker F (unidentified): I mean, it's obviously a seasonal thing. [47:46] Councilor Sims: Right. Oh, yeah, good point. [47:48] Speaker F (unidentified): And, again, we have tried to move away from intersection impediments like that. Hodgson Road had one. Okay. White Rock. No, not White Rock. What's that intersection up by? North Road? Yeah, is it Northbourne Road? [48:04] Speaker G (unidentified): Yeah, Northbourne Road. Yeah. [48:09] Speaker F (unidentified): Because they used to do that. They used to put like flower pots in the middle of them and make people go around them. Some towns still like that model, [48:16] Speaker G (unidentified): but we moved away from it. [48:18] Councilor Sims: I think that's part of the issue is people are coming, they've got momentum coming off the turn, whether it's the left, whether it's a turn from the left side or the right side. [48:28] Speaker F (unidentified): They're just coming down. [48:30] Councilor Sims: So anything we can do to kind of slow them at the entry point might be worth trying as well. [48:36] Speaker D (unidentified): I know at least one thing we find is we take our speed trailer and we address a lot of speed issues. The speed trailer, a lot of it, perception. It's amazing to see people that call and say, oh, the cars are going, we've done, the last two months we've done Farrington Road and Sabae Lake Road. [Councilor Sims: Yeah,] Yeah, there's just no data there to tell us if there's a speeding issue on one of those roads. It's perception So 25 on that road will be perceived as very fast. That is fast. Oh, yeah [49:08] Speaker F (unidentified): If you're going 20 and you're walking next to them, it's gonna feel like they're going 40 for sure [49:12] Councilor Sims: Well, nonetheless, I think the goal of trying to get a sidewalk on that little part of what water street would be nice eventually too for sure [49:19] Speaker F (unidentified): We have enough width on water. Do we have enough width to get away from those bulls? [49:24] Speaker D (unidentified): I think so. [49:26] Terry: It's funny how some of the streets just have massive right-of-ways, and not others. Yeah. [49:30] Councilor Sims: This is a mess. The challenge with that whole thing about Water Street there, it's fun because that whole little village mall there, 's really not much sidewalk in there. Once you get off of the street, you're like, where do I go? So that's a little challenging, obviously. [49:46] Speaker D (unidentified): If we can get that connection to Main Street, I guess it will benefit the village mall, but you get people safely up that side of Water Street to the traffic, so yeah. [49:56] Councilor Sims: It's been a little interesting because the Cumberland Farms there, they've shut off car access to those two entrances there right near the intersection. I kind of wish they'd just keep it like that. Like, maybe we should just ask them. Oh, because of the construction? Yeah, like, hey, why don't you guys, like, do you really need four entryways for all the cars there? I mean, like, it wouldn't be, it's not like they would get less business because of that. I mean people would just go in the one spot where they're allowed to like that might be worth reaching out to them [50:27] Speaker F (unidentified): It's a pretty small place. Yeah, I think they pulled their Cisco. No, it's not Cisco. What's their whatever big a team whether they have I've seen that pull in. Yeah, though one of those and parks right along the side. Mm-hmm. It's it's very tough for them to get deliveries. Yeah. [50:44] Councilor Sims: Yeah and then we've got the just since we've gone over there that there's the plan to do the sidewalk from New Portland Road down to the crosstown trail that's that's in the do we have is that what we've gotten the funding [50:59] Speaker F (unidentified): Lined up we talked to we talked to the DOT about what's called a TPI funding which is the active transportation something yeah we've held off on that we have i think over a million dollars that the town needs to commit to our current our current application success successful applications just trust me out chuck i know sorry you asked me to go [51:25] Terry: Get them so big picture and I think I sent the council an email about on that about a month ago. Yes, we have a lot of projects on deck that are going to require a lot of financial commitment. We just don't want to overextend ourselves and I think sure what we may be seeing in other municipalities are the reason we're getting that is there's a concern elsewhere that there's only there's a finite amount of funds to match things in other towns, so other towns are holding off as well. Yeah, I mean Usually when we get funding like the PAX Western that's why we've got an opportunity somebody else is not you know pulled out their knife and tried to fight this war. Yeah, I guess it's some years it's like that in other years [52:08] Councilor Sims: You're like no we're good so then so then the argument from our side might be well if we can get it this is this might be the time to go ahead and make the investment so New Poland Road we're [52:16] Speaker G (unidentified): Looking at on the funding model there is going to be a next phase for the traffic movement permit for the Roby Centers, so we're looking that may be a requirement of them as part of that development but we're not 100 sure where DOT is landing yet on that, so it's early on which historically was [52:35] Terry: The only way that Gorham, probably 10 years ago, would do. It was just developer additions to infrastructure. Very rarely did the town invest in its own infrastructure. Which is why there's some gaps in the network. Yeah, but we've been very lucky that the village TIF is still starting to get taxed or maxed out, but it's flexible enough that we can match this grant funding with this infrastructure. Right, okay. So that's good. Yeah, wherever we can. Do you have a list of all those projects you [53:07] Speaker C (unidentified): Talking about yeah I can prioritize them somewhere somehow let me check that a memo yeah [53:14] Councilor Sims: Chuck it was I think it was a couple of weeks ago there was a good list there yeah so [53:25] Terry: We have and just found it quickly we wanted the construction down at Mosher's Corner that was a PAX project that was a total project almost half a million dollars. South Street under construction right now we're wrapping up that was yeah that was what happened so when I say a project is almost always 50. Yeah, we have a project for 2027, 2028, for an air dancing sidewalks. Phase one, six hundred thousand. Phase two, from ran to access, four hundred thousand. Street up to the USM Heart building for pedestrian lights, lighting, 375,000. In the future here, and then we just got all the money for Main Street, which actually we picked up another hundred grand because Raymond bailed or couldn't, we fought them forward, and then we ended up getting all that anyway for the Crosstown Trail. So you have about 800,000 for Main Street as far as it'll go for new sidewalks and pedestrian lighting, and then a hundred and something thousand for the Crosstown Trail, 109 for the Crosstown Trail. We'll have to match, okay, so that's 109 for their money. [54:50] Speaker F (unidentified): right yeah no one on there as well it's like 200 grand to use tiff for that much yeah [54:56] Terry: Okay, so the list is long and the money is short, as long as the money is short, but it's substantial investment in infrastructure, so we should be good. We also, to also max out our TIFs, eventually we are going to have to contribute several hundred thousand dollars, or is it closer to half a million, for sewer infrastructure in Little Falls for our congressional year market. [55:20] Speaker F (unidentified): Yeah, that's three point, it might be like six hundred grand, but basically to put [55:29] Terry: sewer in all these smaller areas of Little Falls that doesn't have it, to match that three something million we got in Earmark, so sewer goes down Main [55:39] Speaker C (unidentified): Street to Windham, down Main Street would have been called 202 I guess, or are you talking about other side getting the other roads next to it? [55:47] Terry: Yeah, well, it's mostly in the Little Falls Village, so like all those side streets don't have some do, but not all of them have sewer. So it would be like sewering all those little areas and there's a lot of ledge up there, so they have problems with septic systems. [56:03] Councilor Sims: So this is one where we submitted the application and we actually got some sort of conditional approval? [56:11] Speaker F (unidentified): This is congressionally delegated spending out of Collins' office. Yeah, so they were looking to award some local projects, right, and you've been working with the EPA grant. [56:21] Councilor Sims: Yeah, EPA grant, so we, so our projects been selected. But not funding, right, so that and it's a matter. So what's the, what are, what are the remaining steps to actually secure the fund? We have to provide a match. [56:34] Speaker F (unidentified): Looking at this, I'm pretty sure it's six or seven hundred thousand local match. [56:40] Terry: It's a lot of bang for the buck as far as infrastructure investment. [56:43] Speaker F (unidentified): But the Congress has to ratify it before it. [56:48] Terry: No, that one went through Congress. Oh, that one did, yeah. EPA did a bunch of internal reviews. [56:56] Speaker G (unidentified): Yeah, you go through that review process and move up the chain. [57:00] Terry: Yeah, we got a total, we got the million for the industrial park from King, right? [57:07] Speaker G (unidentified): No, Collins, they're all Collins. [57:09] Terry: And then we got this for sewer infrastructure and then we had the South Gorm school or sewer study which was a couple hundred thousand that is going to help us design our components of the basically everything going on. So is there like an [57:26] Councilor Sims: expiration date on this money, like we have to do the project by X date? [57:31] Speaker F (unidentified): Generally there is, it's not necessarily been like, we're not, we're not at a point we're sharp enough into it. But there's always extension. [57:41] Terry: This took a while to get awarded. I think we were in one cycle, we didn't get it. Then we put it back in, or Colin submitted it again for us. [57:50] Speaker G (unidentified): No, we got it. They didn't fund it. Congress didn't fund it for a different pot of money. They said, no, you're going to get this pot of money, and they resubmitted it, and then we got it. [58:00] Terry: The town always could just be like, no, we're good. But if we didn't pull it off, I think it would be a very nice investment in that village. [58:06] Councilor Sims: Okay, so at this point we're still proceeding, we're attempting to pull it off, and it's just, it sounds like there's a fair amount of red tape at the federal level that's still, the money's not in our bank account. [58:17] Terry: The industrial park one, for example, which was our first one, took years to get the money. [58:21] Councilor Sims: And is that going to be, are they going to reimburse us? Yes. [58:24] Speaker G (unidentified): They're all reimbursing us. They're all reimbursing us. Yeah, okay. [58:27] Terry: So that's. Which I think we could bankroll that. Should I just share and walk by? I think we could. If it's spread out, we could do it. [58:36] Speaker G (unidentified): Yeah, it's not like a one, it will be a slow project. [58:41] Councilor Sims: Yeah, it will be reimbursed in a few disbursements. [58:44] Speaker F (unidentified): I mean, we determine how quickly we submit for reimbursements, but it's all post-payment, so we have to pay out and then we can submit for reimbursement. [58:53] Terry: We also have another one, I wrote it, but it's through the town of Casco. So that was Senator Collins' office earmark. Yeah, he selected Casco on purpose as the lead applicant. And she advanced that to the Appropriations Committee. But I have no idea if that's going to make it through Congress. And I don't know if that can make it in a lame duck session. I don't know what that and how that looks in the long term. But I hope we get the funding for it. But it's right now, right now it made the cut. They [59:40] Councilor Sims: find that they keep finding, thank you. Yeah, go inside with their election cycles. Yeah, so all right, cool. So all right, well, that sounds good. Well, anything else we need for, yeah, anything else from you all? Look at the time here, it's 12, so this is great stuff, thank you. Thank you all very much for the updates and all the work. Do we, I don't know if we, I have some conflicts in the normal time in October. Do we feel like there's a need for a, are there any critical updates for next month that we would need a meeting, or could we consider maybe holding off on, do we need a schedule in the meeting right now? I'm not sure if we have anything to bring back for this meeting. Actually, what about the Affordable Housing Committee? With that, I know that would be a, that'll be an interesting one to do if they're ready. That might be interesting to try to have a conversation with them. What [1:00:40] Terry: did we get prepared for November? Okay, well, maybe actually, maybe we [1:00:50] Councilor Sims: just tentatively pause this meeting for next month. I don't know if there's [1:00:54] Terry: anything pressing, I don't think so. I would also, we can put meeting on the books for November, but the council, right, you do change up your committee assignments. I think we'll just, yeah, I think, do we need to, do we need to have [1:01:07] Councilor Sims: another meeting scheduled before we close out officially? Oh no, I mean your [1:01:12] Terry: items are gonna still continue regardless if it's all three new different counselors, because you just write one change of committees, or yeah, it's, it's a few, like Tom and I have been talking about, oh [1:01:30] Councilor Sims: yeah, well, we have, we have talked to the last meeting about the zoning on main street, so we could talk about that, actually [1:01:35] Terry: we could talk about it if your next meeting, whenever that is, okay. I think, I think we need to have a larger conversation, because it's not, if there's a hope to move the needle in the next five to ten years, zoning changes alone are not going to happen, okay? We really have to have a combination of selling some carrots for developers. Thank you, people who want to sell their properties for redevelopment. I think there's a whole larger conversation. [1:02:06] Councilor Sims: That's a good point. That would be a conversation worth trying to have. I think Councilman Wilson here, I can't do the normal third Thursday at 11 at least. I could potentially do it later in the day. [1:02:23] Speaker E (unidentified): Can we do it at 1 o'clock? [1:02:27] Councilor Sims: On the 15th? Are [1:02:32] Speaker C (unidentified): You around that? I'm out that week. You're out that whole week? I can do like the first week, the first three days of the first week. October, that's probably it. [1:02:40] Councilor Sims: What about towards the end of the month, like that last week? To [1:02:46] Speaker C (unidentified): go moose hunting with somebody. If we get a moose hunter, that's how it goes. I like that priority. [1:02:51] Councilor Sims: What about Tuesday the 27th? Really [1:02:59] Speaker C (unidentified): the first two or three days in October is about the only time I'll be around. [1:03:03] Councilor Sims: Okay. Alright, well maybe we can, well then I guess maybe I'll see if you don't mind, maybe I'll see if David's available. Why don't we tentatively keep it on for the, well let's see, so the 15th would be one, two, three weeks away. Is that enough time or is that? [1:03:23] Terry: Whatever it works for you. All right, well I guess we're pushing it. You could always put on the books and then if you want to bump it you can bump it. Yeah, why don't we, why don't we, why don't we put [1:03:32] Councilor Sims: it, can we put it on the, can we put something on the books for Tuesday October the 27th and we'll see if David can do that? Can we do, can we do 11 that day? Let's tentatively put that in and we'll see if David can do it. Maybe can, we'll just, we'll just push it to, you know, let the next council [1:03:55] Speaker D (unidentified): to take up and [1:03:59] Councilor Sims: then are we, are we still, are we gonna do a workshop in October from the 20th [1:04:04] Terry: I think we had talked about kicking that workshop maybe in November. Okay, but I talked to Susie about at some point the council needs to do my review, which you, okay, most of you have submitted yourself to Janet, yep, and we might try to do that sometime in October or we think that, I want to do it before a new council's set, whether it's the same counselors or counselor, it's supposed to be done in April but we always usually end up in October, November. Yeah, so that's the only meeting that I'm aware of but I think we had talked about kicking that transportation conversation into what council we had. Okay, because that was the, I did go by the DOT [1:04:48] Councilor Sims: thing on Tuesday night, I guess they're having a thing today, but it does look like they've, they've, they've proposed a couple of different alternative options. [1:04:56] Speaker E (unidentified): So that's good, there's a lot to consider. [1:04:58] Speaker C (unidentified): This is much more thoughtful than the old MTA thing a few years ago. Very good. [1:05:04] Councilor Sims: All right, cool. Well then, shall we call today's meeting done? So moved. All right, I'm very,, all right, very good. All right, thank you all very much.