Bangor Marsh Commission elects David Lamon as chair

[0:24] Bernerd Cannavan: Hey everyone, how's it going? My name is Tristan, and I worked out at Bangor for a little bit. I lived at Bangor for a bit. I live in Herman now, but I do a lot of volunteer work in the area, and I want to make sure you work in. [0:42] Roger D. Applegate: Roger Appleby, so I live in Bangor. I live right in this project area, in a little forgotten area that people don't know about, some people don't, including the post office delivers maybe once or twice a week to our house, but anyway, so I'm, I'm here. My uncle-in-law passed away, was on the original committee that put together this document that was sent out to her, one of the members of that committee, so there's been no participation since he was off that original committee, and so I decided to try to. Represent us, I. [1:33] Bernerd Cannavan: Am Bernard Canavan, I live in Levant, but work here in Bangor. I manage the Comfort over in the mall area. Hi. [1:43] Sarah Eremita: I'm Sarah Arenita, and I live in Bangor, and I am a business and land owner over in the mall area that is directly adjacent to the marsh. [1:53] Cindy A. DeBeck: I'm Cindy Debec, I was right from the get-go landowner, and I've turned out twice, and now I'm back home. You're on the planning analyst for the day, Jane Bragg, and then we're citizen. [2:51] Carollynn Lear: Other business, I'll run for the chair, and the chair can do twice chair. The way that works is somebody will just nominate somebody else, and that person's nominated, and stuff with my nomination, and then we'll do a roll call vote to vote on that person. So, I don't know. I don't know. In my work best, typically people with the most seniority, have experience on the board or commission get nominated as the chair and vice chair. I mean, all of you, three have been on the other side. [3:40] Cindy A. DeBeck: I don't feel like I have that much of an expertise in the area that I would defer to someone who has more experience. [3:51] Sarah Eremita: What are the duties of that position? [3:55] Carollynn Lear: It's really just to kind of run the meeting and introduce an agenda item. For this commission, because you're not a regulatory commission, you're just advisory, it's really pretty simple. With the planning board or historic education, I mean, you have like a whole introduction, and you know you'll call them the public and stuff like that, but I don't never have meetings like that, so I think it would just be introducing the meeting and introducing the agenda item, so do you hope that's the person who's supposed to be joining? Yes, sorry, we do have one more person. Yeah, this is David. Sure. [4:44] Sarah Eremita: Does anyone feel strongly about wanting a position, or? [4:48] Carollynn Lear: Hello. Hi, David. Sorry about that. Can you just introduce yourself real quick for everybody? I can. [4:55] David Lamon: I was I was on, but I tried talking, and it didn't seem like anybody could hear me. So yeah, that's okay. David Lamon, and I'm the director of northern operations for Maine Audubon. Maine Audubon, if you're not aware, is an owner of a piece of land in the marsh, the grasslands part section, and I've been part of this Commission I don't know how many years, a lot of years now. So anything else that [5:28] Carollynn Lear: you want me to say? I think you're good. Okay, do you have any nominations? [5:37] David Lamon: What am I being nominated for? I'm sorry, I didn't quite get that. For chair of the commission? Oh, I don't know about that. Well, [5:53] Cindy A. DeBeck: if you consider it, I think we all [5:55] Carollynn Lear: support you. I don't think it would be a very big role. Like I was saying, it's really just [6:00] David Lamon: introducing agenda items, right? I know I've been around the block with it a number of times. That's fine if you're okay with that. No worries, I'll I'll do that. Pretty, is it was Lucy [6:12] Carollynn Lear: Cornby? Yeah, all right, so I'll start with Kristin. I'll vote on examination. Yeah, Roger. Sorry, I'm wondering. Yeah,, yes,, yes. All right. So then you'll just run the vice chair nominations, and we'll call vote. We'll ask for nominations for the vice chair. [6:42] Bernerd Cannavan: Yeah, if I may. I got to know Roger about 30 minutes before the meeting. His family's been here for generations. He seems to know the area well,, and he's interested in helping others, so I think he'd be a great vice chair. So [6:58] Carollynn Lear: then David, you'll run the roll call vote and call on each member here. I know it's hard. I could just do it [7:04] David Lamon: honestly. It's hard, honestly, it is. I apologize the have to be on Zoom today, but I had another back-to-back meeting. There's no way I could have gotten there, but yeah, if you could do that, Angie, [7:14] Carollynn Lear: that'd be great. Yep, all right, so David, I'll just start with your vote. Yes, okay, interesting. Yeah, just all set. Just to introduce the commission, just be aware that this commission doesn't meet very often because typically when it does meet, it's when a development is proposed, which I will show you because you don't know what that looks like, but like last year, million one development proposed there. Maybe we'll get two, maybe we'll get none. In the past, and Cindy would know better than I would, when This commission was first developed in 2005. There was a lot of development going on out there, which is why the commission came up. On the first day of the task force was done because it was so much happening, but now at this point in time, like a lot of it has been developed already, and we don't really see like big box stores going in. We see a lot more infills, people thinking about empty spaces and buildings. So, and then on top of that, we do have, the zoning also contributes to that because outside of what's currently designated shopping versus service, general commercial loan services are two intensive commercial zones. Most of it is rural, residential, and agriculture. And we have a growth boundary, which I'll show you, that was designated in our conference plan. And it's, it basically just outlines where the current development is and then pass that you know that's outside, so those are kind of limiting factors on development there. But the other thing that we have the commission do is when we are doing like when we did the comprehensive plan we took that fourth position had some listening sessions. Now we are working on updating our land development code to align with the comprehensive plan, and we did a session with Dr. Lock. It's up in 2024 now to talk about that. We are anticipating having a new draft code come out at the end of March. Hopefully it'll go through a couple iterations, so we'll have staff review that first, and then we'll come out with a public draft, and at that point in time we'll bring before this commission, planning board, council, all those entities things, and so that we can really get your perspective and feedback on that new code and any other ordinances that you know we might put forward that relate to the Panjajawak overlay zone. We would agree to the submission for later review, and if there's a management plan like we just recently finished from Joshua Watershed Based Management Plan, and we Rich May who social or more person he came before the commission to talk about that, so anything planning related you will have feedback on. And then the other aspect of what the commission, one of the commission roles, is public education. So at this point in time, you know, with the staff time that we have, like the limit of what we do is we send out letters to new owners in the canada overlay zone whenever a new sale happens but we also just sent out a mass mailing last year it goes from march to all owners and i think we would probably do that again this year too just to educate them and i think with that letter in your pocket educate them about you know i don't know so it's nice to go march and get that if you all as the commission you want to do further public future events you're welcome to do that i will say you know If you as like for open meeting law, when three or more members meet it's considered a public meeting, so we could have to arrange that, but you all can also do things on their own too. So are there any questions about any of that? So again, you know, you may not need, if there's not a development that this year you may not meet on that, but I do anticipate you meeting after at least. Great for you. Let's see, oh and then the other thing too, you know, the task force plan and the ordinance for the Punjab Marsh does talk about potential land purchases, of course with the willingness of the owner, if they want to sell to the city, with a tiff that was apparently developed back in 2005 when the commission was created. So there is money in that tiff fund, however it, you know, it would take staff, a lot of staff time to do a land purchase or a conservation event, so we haven't really pursued that at this time, but it is something that's on my list, and this commission would be the commission of reviews and Potential purchases, conservation, isn't it? And if you read through that task force plan, it gives some guiding principles for what we would look for, some priorities that we need to do that for, but I just want to mention [12:45] Cindy A. DeBeck: Now tiff was a percentage of tax revenue from Walmart and Home Depot and other commercial developments, and there are limitations on what they can be used for. Well yep, such as services, it can be used with services and access. So just reading what the [13:15] Carollynn Lear: Code says on that management fund established, it says this one shall be used for the purpose of acquiring property, conservation easements, public access to systems, water quality improvement projects, and other public improvement projects that may benefit ecological, recreational, and [13:31] Cindy A. DeBeck: Want that meeting Kathy Koppel, who was the city manager at the time, she stated because there were some members of the commission that they wanted to take that money and run right out and buy properties, and she said that it had to be used for services for commercial properties and access roads and stuff. Like she said that it was state law. [14:19] Carollynn Lear: I'd like to look into that, because that would be kind of contrary to what the ordinance is saying. [14:25] Cindy A. DeBeck: I might want to double check that, because it caused a little bit of uproar at that meeting, and I just ended that there and watched what happened. [14:38] Roger D. Applegate: Yeah, so that fund is it is it like an open fund that's accessible when you have a proposal, or does it have to then be budgeted? [14:52] Carollynn Lear: Yeah, so we have like a downtown TIP, the one we mostly use, and the Council approves a budget. [15:02] Cindy A. DeBeck: I think the trail system that they did, the trail from over Corcoran Road to Eastern Maine Community College and coming out on the Stillwater Avenue. There were funds that were used from the TIP for the trail system. Interesting. [15:31] Carollynn Lear: So I'll look into that more, but again, it's kind of on the back burner right now just because we don't have staff to be able to really handle that. So anyway, so I want to show you all. I'm talking about the overlaying with me. [Cindy A. DeBeck: So most] of the relevant data can be found here. And this is our layers that we turn on for all kinds of things in the city, so this is the Panjajuak overlay zone, so you can see it takes up a pretty large area here around Marsh. So any new development that happens in here has to come before this commission, and you can also see our zoning on here. This is our current zoning, so you can see, like I said, we just have this, these S&Ps is red, Shopping for Self-Service District, and then Rural Residents and Agriculture is the light green, and this dark green is the Resource Protection District. So I noticed that in the Marsh part, [17:06] Sarah Eremita: where you have the overlay on that, she had mentioned from the trail from Eastern Lane [17:14] Carollynn Lear: going through, but that doesn't land in the overlay at all. Yeah, the only thing I can think is if it's in the Panjshirwak Watershed, maybe they qualified it that way. Because I think this also states the Panjshirwak stream and the stream comes through here. So anything that benefits that or relates to that. So I don't know. I would have to look into that because I don't know for sure what happened there. But it [17:46] Sarah Eremita: Could be in the Pajajuac watershed because I know thanks to the between the Comfort Inn and Wendy's and Starbucks and Books a Million there's that overflow I guess watershed where it's green on [17:59] Carollynn Lear: This map but it's not part of the overlay, so is that? Yeah, so this is the stream protection district, this is the Pajajuac stream, and yes, the Pajajuac overlay doesn't cover this area. But again, like when you read the ordinance, it refers to not just the Panjotawak Marsh, [18:19] Cindy A. DeBeck: But also refers to. So that would be. Yeah. Also, you're showing our property as being commercial. We never applied to have that be commercial. It's still rural, residential, and agriculture. [18:44] Carollynn Lear: Okay. Yeah, I wasn't here. I don't know when that would have changed. [18:48] Cindy A. DeBeck: I don't know who covered that in, but it's still rural, residential, and agriculture. [18:56] Carollynn Lear: Okay. Let me look into that, see what happened there. But the overlay zone, that really just is relevant to development if a development occurs there. There and oh yeah I wanted to show you the coordinates too. Yeah, so this goes over you know the process with developers and everything, and then also list some additional requirements for development that isn't that overlay zone. It has to meet some more stringent setbacks from the marsh and impervious area and things like that, and the residential subdivisions have to be cluster subdivisions, so and the way it works with developers if somebody does go in there they would come to you at a very Preliminary stage and give any recommendations, and then when they finally apply formally for the planning board then we send those recommendations to the board and they can choose whatever they want. [20:18] Cindy A. DeBeck: Do they still make provisions for land banking for conservation, say if somebody wants to get piece of land developed but there's questions about it but they offer to do say land banking in another area? That's something that is thought to be a little bit hard to follow at times, yeah. [20:53] Carollynn Lear: I haven't seen that happens a lot of them here. That sounds to me like transfer development rights, which is allowed by state law, but we don't have an ordinance to let's do that, so I'd be curious to see how they did that. [21:08] Cindy A. DeBeck: I think that the state did get involved. Okay. It's been quite an education. [21:17] Carollynn Lear: Yeah. Yeah. Right. I think the question's on me that. Oh, one more thing. I wanted to show you the growth data. Okay. So this is the growth boundary designated in our comprehensive plan. So like I said, it really just follows current development in this area for the most part. So the future land use areas I confess it's designated in this area to remain rural residential outside of this country and put that on here but maybe he did not if anybody wants to see that actually I can just pull it up on our conference [22:16] Cindy A. DeBeck: There were projects on Essex streets that came before the commission too you mean like out here Yeah. We'll go through to Essex Street, anything that was proposed in the flow of things. [22:37] Carollynn Lear: Yeah. Because the Judgeworth overlay does stand out to this, so it makes sense. This is our comprehensive plan. It's pretty extensive. And basically what a comprehensive plan is, it designates a vision for the next decade based on extensive community input. But and you know current demographics current land use things like that and then one of the most important parts of comprehensive plans that does designate that boundary and future land use areas so this is the future land use plan and the comprehensive plan and so you can see most all of this is designated as remaining rural residential and current open space so And then there's 50 policies that run the gamut from the environment, the housing, to the economy, historic resources, and things Like that, and then specific strategies that deal with those policies. Let's see if I can get there. David, I'm so sorry. I meant to be sharing this the whole time, and I haven't been sharing it. I'll run back through some of those things for you that I was talking about on the parcel viewer, but this is the comprehensive plan. [24:12] Roger D. Applegate: Can you see that okay? Can you [24:19] David Lamon: Hear okay I can see yeah if you could speak a little louder that would be great [24:24] Carollynn Lear: Okay I'll try my best sorry about that so let me see all right so this is our matrix here of different strategies to achieve our policies that we set out so if you have time to bruise up you know feel free but the most important part is the growth boundary for the purposes of the And David, I'll just run through our parcel here real quick. This is the growth boundary that I was showing in purple, and this is the overlaid with the yellow hatch, and then also just showing the zoning on there. And then I did just want to show you all the website for our land development code update. So we've got a summary of different things on here you can look through our technical review and approaches report, which basically gives you a kind of an overview of the general concepts of what the consultants will be proposing for language on the code updates. And you can find that here. This presentation gives you a better summary not to read through the full report on the reports about 40 pages. pages. Is that available on the city website? It should be linked from the city website, but you can also just type in Blueprint Bangor dot com to get there. I'll just double check that it's up here. Are there any questions? No. That's all I really had to go over. So feedback or questions or anything. Also here for questions outside of the meeting too. [26:45] Bernerd Cannavan: Yeah, I don't have any further questions right now. But as I'm going through this, are you available to contact me at a future date? Yeah, always. I'm [27:01] Roger D. Applegate: curious about last year when you talked about there were some changes being made there on Stillwater water to that little business development that they were modifying the structure of that other building right and I was wondering because it doesn't look like anything's been going on there you know if they ever went forward with any development right I think you're talking right [27:28] Carollynn Lear: there yeah they were they have a plan in progress currently which they did come for you with that so you remove that and put parking in yeah but they're still working through some [27:39] Roger D. Applegate: things with that so it's okay yeah because i haven't seen anything it looked like there was any activity going yeah i mean down from there was the place that before that i think it was in the within the area maybe it was that spot yeah so they did get land development [27:58] Carollynn Lear: government approval for it but they never began construction so they actually have to come back [28:03] Roger D. Applegate: again because they're permanent fired so yeah so they have to kind of start all over again yeah because lately there's been a power company across parking yeah that's interesting using that you know that's because it's almost like a parking lot there's [28:19] Carollynn Lear: like a cave area right there well they said that they were going to do something this year so we'll [28:25] Cindy A. DeBeck: see the video what's that the little angels dick here and just fall wood yeah tall and sick because he was on the commission for a couple of years jim packard yeah that's history [28:44] Carollynn Lear: Yeah, he was gonna do a code with a filmatory there, so that's what was going in there. Yeah, and is that what's on hold? Yeah, I mean, I don't know why what the hold up is, probably. [28:56] Sarah Eremita: So I have a question going back to some like the improvement and stuff. Is it our responsibility or if we have things that to improve the marsh or to the panels to do something with it, but is that in the scope of our mini or, I guess, what do you mean? So I just, I just keep thinking about, how way back in like the early nineties, the area between the, Comfort Inn and Wendy's and Books a Million, that actually was like a little walking park and they had benches down there and it was all maintained and mowed and people could go and actually like enjoy, and walk trails down there, and that's since been overgrown and neglected, and I don't know if that's something that we would, it's. [30:01] Roger D. Applegate: Where they have some sediment ponds, yeah. [30:09] Cindy A. DeBeck: The city forester, he kind of maintained that and planted a bunch of pine trees. [30:18] Sarah Eremita: Yeah, yes, and then the comfort, it was a Hampton, and at the time they took over maintaining it when the city stopped, and then it just, it was too much for them to maintain, and so they just stopped, so now it's completely overgrown, but there was like beautiful benches down there and. [30:38] Carollynn Lear: Yeah, I have to look back, I think, you know, when it talks about public access and things like that, it's more so referring to the marsh itself, there's not so much areas on that side, and then the other thing too is like, you know, if the city did want to make it into a public space, it would be something else they have to maintain, and I don't know if they have capacity. [31:00] Cindy A. DeBeck: I have to personalization about it, but just like he created their kind of as a pet project. [31:08] Sarah Eremita: Yeah, so he's gone now. Yeah, I just didn't even know if that was something within our to even investigate or look into, or we can make recommendations. Okay, yeah. [31:23] Cindy A. DeBeck: You can make recommendations, yeah, bring it up at a meeting and make recommendations, and then it gets forwarded to the planning, it gets followed to the city council, then sometimes to keep the bones fresh before anything, but you can give it in the scope. Okay. [31:44] Carollynn Lear: Up into the, you know, we are limited by staff time and city funds, but yeah. [31:52] Roger D. Applegate: I could see that I could, I could think might have happened other than just lack of funds, people, etc., et cetera, to do that would be if there was water quality concerns associated with, especially if they did herbicide spraying or anything of that sort down there, because then that impinges on the water quality. And there's a lot of concern over the water quality because that goes directly to the Penobscot. Well, in theory, in theory, it's supposed to be able to protect salmon, although I don't know that there's any history of salmon ever coming up that stream, but there used to be brown trout that came up that stream, the lower part of it down on the other side of the interstate. [32:42] Cindy A. DeBeck: They tried stopping it with trout, but I think the eels drove them out. Yeah, it's probably not [32:53] Roger D. Applegate: not a good place for fish, it's definitely not salmon, I don't think there's ever any history, but [32:59] Cindy A. DeBeck: the water quality is the real concern. At one time we had a stream team and we had a section of the stream that we would go out and take samples and they would go to the gentleman that was heading up the stream. He was part of the DDP and Fish and Wildlife. And it was all the way to the Penobscot, the strong up, you know, railroad bed. [33:42] Roger D. Applegate: Yeah. I know it never came up the river, up the stream from the river any farther than about Meadowbrook area, just not far from the river. [33:54] Cindy A. DeBeck: No, we used to swim in there, but the bloodsuckers and the eels, you had to watch out for them. And so they stocked it with trout, right out from the bridge going into Octophany, and they didn't survive because of the basically we called it trash fish, yeah, okay [34:31] Carollynn Lear: well if nobody else has anything [34:33] Cindy A. DeBeck: i guess we can adjourn, so do we have to make a motion to adjourn [34:39] Carollynn Lear: thank you, yes, nice to meet you all [34:51] Sarah Eremita: Do we have a meeting for the next date for the meeting, which are just for the top stuff? [34:56] Carollynn Lear: Okay, I mean, developments were at the very least you'll probably need this summer. [35:04] Cindy A. DeBeck: So yeah, I think that twice last year that wasn't the only one that once of the two seal and that's about the housing and two on it. Yeah. [35:23] Carollynn Lear: So how we know when I think when in 20,, 30, so last year was the avenue where they were going to change out the parking. [35:34] Cindy A. DeBeck: right now just like that i keep getting people trying to buy our property but i don't want to deal with them and the ones that have the solar arrays i got a real good education in the solar arrays when red nickings wanted to put them on their property of the gillin mode and stuff and they are there but [36:16] Roger D. Applegate: I keep getting approached. I look at them every morning and say, look out my kitchen window so. [36:22] Cindy A. DeBeck: What happens when they have to be decommissioned? [36:25] Roger D. Applegate: An answer to that question other than in Syria. The contract track specifies they have to remove everything. Yeah, we want to see commissioning. It has to be completely pulled off because they filed bankruptcy. Yeah, that's, you know, I don't know. [36:47] Carollynn Lear: Every utility solar array they have to do with the fishing bond, so they have to basically put money in escrow in case they do have bankruptcy, and then the city needs that money to get rid of. [37:00] Bernerd Cannavan: You'll have to forgive me, I lack an education on this. [Cindy A. DeBeck: You'll get one.] I didn't realize this was an issue with solar panels after 20 years of toxic waste. [Roger D. Applegate: I remember that.] And if they get destroyed somewhere during their life, they leach toxic waste into the soils and into the watershed. [37:22] Cindy A. DeBeck: Yeah, well those panels, there's all kinds of stuff in the end that you don't want. [37:28] Bernerd Cannavan: Going into the land, you see, I was always talking about green energy. [37:34] Carollynn Lear: There's no panels in the marsh. Someone, no, there's not. And you know there's also toxic waste from fossil fuels, but again we have to finish the bonds to, you know, get rid of. [37:47] Cindy A. DeBeck: Those if they were to file in person. So I'll tell you one of my pet, my goal is veterans housing, and so I'm getting as much education as I can on the veterans houses. We've got 73 acres here, it and it's all good. I appreciate. [38:18] Carollynn Lear: That, all right, we're adjourned.