Lewiston Planning Board approves Phase 3 senior housing, grants extensions

[0:00] Speaker A (unidentified): I mean, people butcher that all the time too, yeah. So the idea was it was the, it's [0:05] Penn Lindsay: built, being built on what was the Sun Journal property? Oh, Sun Soleil, yeah. It sounded good [0:14] Shanna Cox: around the conference, and then you shopped it around outside the walls a little bit. Everyone's like, so well, what is this? I mean, is, how I would have pronounced it, I just also, yeah, it's a French community, it is. You'll just have to put it in phonetics below, yeah, but [0:32] Speaker D (unidentified): like all the French things, it's pretty common. A lot of the French names here actually kind of like [0:37] Shanna Cox: messed up, they don't actually say it, didn't like, oh yeah, totally. What is it, that's like good evening, my name is Shanna Cox. I'm calling our Monday, August 10th, 2026 Planning Board meeting to order. We do have some absences this evening, so Lucy is going to call a little for us. Sure, Amy Smith, here. Lucy Bisson, here. Shanna Cox, here. Alexander Pine, yes. Heidi Bertels, I'm sorry, here. You're not, it's not a French name, so I guess so. And Darren Gallant, here. I'd like the French pronunciation of my name. There is no, I mean, I could call, I could say Darren Gala, yeah. And Michael McCutt, and still, I'm just gonna be, you're gonna be Shannon Cox, and he's going to be Alexander Pine, and she's going to be Amy Smith. There's really, it's pretty straightforward, you know, I mean. And for the record, Shelly Norton, our deputy director, is in attendance for staff. Thanks. Let the record also reflect that Mike Marcotte and Pentia Burns let us know that they would be absent this evening. And while we will be dealing with this a little bit throughout our agenda tonight, that Zoe had to resign from our board tonight, and so will not be here, which brings me to our agenda item 2. We would like to continue election of secretary to when we have all current members present. I'm not gonna put that date certain, just please put it on our next agenda item. I think we have to vote on that. Yeah, do we have to vote on that? That right, yeah, so we need a motion. Oh, was that a motion right there? Thanks. There a second? Yeah, are you good with the motion on the floor? Yeah, I got [2:52] Speaker F (unidentified): Alex, and then who seconded? Amy, so [2:56] Shanna Cox: I didn't do that in a way that would prevent it from you either bringing him forward at our next meeting or the next meeting of which we have a full contingency, correct? Yes, that's fine. Well, [3:06] Speaker F (unidentified): we'll add it to the agenda, and if you have to continue it again, so it be it. [3:10] Shanna Cox: Great, everybody show up. Are there any adjustments to the we need to vote on it since we had a motion dear front end? It's just any discussion. No, please call. Me Amy Smith. Yes, Lucy Bisson. Yes, Shanna Cox, Alexander Pine. Yes, Heidi Bertels. [3:27] Speaker F (unidentified): Yes, and Darren Gala. Yes, and you're appointing folks to be voting members. [3:36] Shanna Cox: Tonight I was going to do that separate from but we have to do that. They just voted. Oh, okay, I love them. It's Monday. Yeah, we don't have to vote on it, but please let the record reflect that Darren will be a full voting member for this evening and Heidi. That's right, congratulations, welcome to your one-day promotion. Please let their record reflect both Heidi and Darren are full. [4:05] Speaker D (unidentified): Voting members tonight. I'll be keeping an eye out for my pay raise. Yeah, unfortunately it's the same. [4:12] Shanna Cox: Shall we call roll again? Can you read back the motion that you have on the floor? Yeah, motion. [4:19] Speaker F (unidentified): Made by Alexander Pine to continue the election of secretary until when all the current board members are present, not a date certain, seconded by Amy. Six zero, great, passed. Can we reflect that now or do you need us to call it again? I think that it's fine, I don't think you need to do it again. Okay, unless anyone wants to change their vote. Okay, no. [4:45] Shanna Cox: Get uncomfortable, but anyway, I can't. Yeah, will you just tease and eyes please, tease and eyes, thanks for your cooperation. Everybody, Amy Smith. Yes, Lucy Biston. Yes, Shanna Cox, Alexander Pine. Yes, Heidi Bertels. Yes, and. And Darren Gellar? Oui. That's voting number. Motion passes. Are there any adjustments to the agenda beyond what we have already mangled? No? There are not. [5:14] Speaker G (unidentified): Am I allowed to make an adjustment to the agenda? I'd like to add two things to the end after other business. The first is I was not here at the last meeting, and I have a few questions that I'd like to ask, and then I want to talk about how we as the Planning Board what the correct process is for suggesting updates to ordinances and to policies. Thanks. [5:44] Shanna Cox: Is we'll deal with it then, but process to request as well as suggest I think is what you're looking to, you said ordinances and what policies. Thank you, and item D if you will are just questions about last meeting or any specific item. Okay, thank you, any other business. Okay, great, is there any. [6:12] Speaker F (unidentified): Correspondence to reflect? No, there's not. Thank you, let's begin with our big. [6:19] Shanna Cox: Public hearing tonight, crowded room, full presentation. It should be, we should be here all night. It's gonna be exciting, Lewiston. You are a number of items on our, but your public hearing tonight is Lewiston Housing Authority submitting a development review application for phase three of the conversion of the formal Martel school site for senior housing in a new 9860 square foot footprint apartment building with 44 units on 2.76 acres at 860 Lisbon Street. Welcome, please make your way to the table. Shelly, is there anything that you would like to preface this agenda item with? Only to say that you have seen [7:01] Speaker F (unidentified): phases one and two so far a couple of times, for phase two because it got an extension, or phase one, phase two's extensions tonight. This is the third phase of apartments only, and it's an additional 44 dwelling units. Phase one was 44, phase two was 44, and I guess I don't have a lot to say. There are some suggestions for conditions of approval, one of them, we had some minor comments from engineering, but due to staff being out they haven't had a chance to verify the response to comments, so we just wanted to make that as a condition of approval, and then some of the other conditions of approval are standard things that we would have [7:56] Shanna Cox: gentlemen, if you'd like to introduce yourself and [8:00] Penn Lindsay: begin good evening all Penn Lindsay director of development with Lewis and housing nice to see you all again and I'm here with Craig Burgess introduce [8:12] Craig Burgess: yourself, Craig Burgess with Acorn Engineering. Welcome, thanks for having us. [8:19] Penn Lindsay: So as Shelley said, this is the third phase of the Martel project. I hope you all have heard by now that we have broken ground and started construction on phase one, which was very exciting, and we are very close on the heels of phase one with phase two. We're hoping that there will be about a six month overlap, so it's a 12-month construction period for phase one. We're hoping to start close and start construction phase two in about six months, which will be great. Phase three, we have submitted a pre-application to main housing for their nine percent low-income housing tax credit round that went in July 2nd and we've gotten back their comments which were very positive and they didn't have any concerns they've invited us to submit our full application I think it's the 17th of September so we're actively working on that right now and this is actually a big part of that process because as you probably remember from past applications in order to be competitive with a nine percent light tech Application and it is a very competitive process. There actually were 20, I believe 21 applications that went in, pre-applications that went in July, and they expect to be able to fund maybe six. So it's competitive. We feel like our application, based on where our preliminary scoring is coming in, is very competitive with those other applicants. But we are assuming that we will have our site plan approval, which is worth significant points in that application process. We've also been through a process with the city requesting, with the City Council requesting a TIF, which we have on phases one and two, and that was approved, which is great because that's also worth points. So all of those things coming together, I think it's going to make us have a very strong application when it does go in September. And yeah, so this is, this is phase three. I'm going to ask Craig to kind of walk through the specifics, and then obviously open to all discussion and questions that we're here to answer. So [10:43] Craig Burgess: Phase three is proposing another 44 units. So when phase one through three are all constructed, it's a total of 132 units on this site. There's an additional curb cut being created on Marston. So unlike phase one, two, which utilizes one, we're creating a whole new curb cut to serve 23 parking spaces, seven of which will be marked as ADA spaces along the side of the parking lot here. Actually there's nine totally, so there's two across the street here. The diagonal striped areas in this, is really for turnaround of garbage trucks, box trucks. At the onset of the project, we did look into that and how we could make that turning movement work. We originally had the dumpster location over here, but it just didn't work out well with the turning movements. So what we did is we moved the dumpster location over here, and what a dump truck, or not a dump truck, garbage truck will have to do is turn around using these marked spaces, that diagonal stripe spaces, to access here. You'll be able to access the dumpster from the front, back up, and exit the site. So there was quite a bit of thought put into that. There is a walkway extending up the entire length of the roadway connecting Marston to East Avenue. This sidewalk connection to East Avenue is really just To serve, there's a utility room to be located at this corner here. Overall, this site is proposing about just over half an acre of new impervious area. The site collectively is under the jurisdiction of a main DEP permit. The city has delegated capacity to review that permit. So once we work through the calculations, it's a redevelopment calculation. This, it's the project's responsibility to treat collectively sixty percent of the runoff from the impervious or developed site, actually. So this particular project is actually proposing to meet those stormwater treatment requirements. It's proposing three storm tree filters. So those are, it's a, it's a high rate permeability filter media the runoff goes through, and it almost goes through instantaneously, and those are storm tree filters. They're located at this end here, and then there's another one located right here, which will pick up about half of the roof from this building. Also as part, can I ask a quick question? Just the language [13:26] Shanna Cox: that we're using, when you refer to project, are you referring to phase three [13:30] Craig Burgess: or are you referring to the entire? So I'm referring to the entire project collectively, phase one through phase three. Great. Has to, there it's the stormwater report outlines that overall over 60% of the runoff from impervious areas being treated. Yeah, not just impervious developed area. I'm sorry. It's okay. So we looked at developed area, and then next I want to talk about some of the changes that we made to phase one and phase two that we're trying to incorporated as part of this phase three application. So we looked at it at the site as a whole, so that we're showing 60% stormwater treatment, and then for phase one and phase two, at one point the planning board reviewed it was an under drain or vegetated under drain soil filter, which was located in this corner right here. As part of phase three, we took a hard look at that soil filter, which provided detention and stormwater treatment. The footprint of that underdrained soil filter extended out into this area here, so as you can see real Estate was important so we wanted to try to make room for phase three in this area. So what we what we are doing is and it meets the DEP requirements we're proposing a subsurface detention system and above that subsurface detention system there's a water quality system. It's a focal point combined with an our tank system. These type of systems are becoming more and more common in urban areas such as this where real estate is really at a premium and you really don't want to utilize that green space. With a big retention detention pond so what we're doing is we updated our stormwater calculations to include that focal point. So a focal point is similar to these storm tree systems the runoff goes through very quickly no detentions provided but we knew phase three was come in with the storm trees. So what we did is we oversized the detention system which is underneath which is our it's an r-tank system. So there's many options that DEP permits to allow for like different types of subsurface. Detention systems and we're going with an r-tank system which are like little square boxes that are they stack on top of one another. So we oversized that detention system to provide enough flooding control from phase one and two where phase three that runoff could almost just be released after it was treated to the stormwater system to the closed drainage system. So there's minimal detention in phase three however we're we're over we're providing extra detention as part of phase one and two to. Make phase three work so that was part of the application packet. That was something that the city engineer said that he wanted to see stamped engineered drawings for the focal point in our tank system and part of the supplemental information that we provided included that stamped focal point in our tank system. So that's what this the engineering comments were about just to make sure that those in those plans were stamped ultimately when phase when phase actually as part of the phase one. Construction they've already reached out to the vendor the stormwater vendor and they'll release least they'll prepare shot drawings for that entire system. So not only is it being looked at by me as the civil engineer on the project but the vendor Ferguson Water Works is also preparing a full engineered plan that ultimately I'm gonna have to approve that it meets the requirements of the design. So that's what's being proposed for the stormwater treatment and detention for this project for. Utility wise, we're connecting the water services out to East Avenue. Three-phase electric is being extended across the street, across East Avenue, this whoops. The sanitary sewer is connecting right out to Marston Street, and then the storm, the stormwater drainage, I'm going to go up to the other plan, but similar to phase one in phase two, we're sending the stormwater drainage out to Marston Street. So this plan also shows that focal point system, and then the our tank system is represented by this rectangular box underneath. Overall, the site will drain pretty well to generally maintain the natural drainage conditions out here. As part of the drainage calc, we did look at the previous development on the site, Martel school. So with that, I think actually I'll touch upon the active space for this project, which was represented on the site plans and the landscape plans, and the project required about 1,100 total square feet of active sort of open space area, and we're proposing to meet that. There is an area right here with a bench, and then there's gonna be like a garden area that's better represented on the landscape plan, but there'll be a garden area that's kind of attached to this paved area right here. Also, on the top floor of this building, this building will be four stories. There will be a common recreational room on the fourth floor that was counted towards that active space, open space, that's right, yeah, so that all is counted towards that required active space. There was a pretty robust landscape plan that was submitted as part of phase three, which is cohesive with phase one and two, same type of plantings, native plantings, and yeah, I think I think that's about it, and I'll I'll turn it back over to the board with any comments. Do you have a page [20:07] Shanna Cox: reference for the landscape, like addendum in the book, the landscape? Did you find some cool stuff about signs and lighting in there though? That's [20:28] Craig Burgess: appreciate it. I don't think I saw, so I have it pulled up on the screen right now. It's out pdf L 20, it's page, oh yeah, it's 183 of 198 pages in there. So this is that area we're defining as the active space, open space. This is the intent for this area is that it could be a small garden area for use by the residents here. Length [Speaker I (unidentified): by width, I] don't have the measuring, don't know how to operate the measuring tool. The project narrative did have a description on the area size. It's an additional, we don't have a long way here, this is what's [21:55] Penn Lindsay: the whole square feet estimation [21:56] Craig Burgess: Let me just pop open the site plan that might be. So the length of a parking space is 18 feet, so it's roughly 18 feet wide or so, 18, 20 feet wide and [22:21] Speaker D (unidentified): so that's facing along East Avenue right there, right. They're going to be, this is East Avenue right here is there, so that's essentially like a few feet from a really busy road right there, the back of the sidewalk. Okay, perfect, okay, cool. There an elevation change between the [22:39] Craig Burgess: sidewalk and the it's up a little bit isn't it 's it's it's raised just a little bit yeah it's not like phase one phase two phase one and two that was elevated a lot more it's five or six feet above this is more at the same level just about a foot higher or so are [22:58] Shanna Cox: you looking for landscaping that delineates and softens the street sounds of four? Yeah, I'm just, four lanes of [23:04] Speaker D (unidentified): traffic, yeah, like oh, this is our one place to go outside and it's like listen to, I see one [23:10] Craig Burgess: one business towns I think it indicates that 's shrubs yeah so we have the street trees and then this hatch that goes around there was the intention is to plant like a layer of shrubs around the entire perimeter of it yeah [23:31] Speaker G (unidentified): Thanks, and what's happening to the left of it? Says in one drawing it says open space and plannings and snow storage to the left. Yeah, I think the open space points [23:44] Speaker F (unidentified): to the garden area where the snow storage is, the area you're talking about, Amy, so it's probably [23:51] Speaker G (unidentified): lawn area. So what is what is that in the summertime? That's just going to be grass, it's going to be grass. Okay, perfect, great, if it grows after you put the snow on there, [24:01] Speaker D (unidentified): because it doesn't go over my front lawn, it doesn't say gravel or lawn, so it could be a big gravel pit. I'm sorry, pointing somewhere else, referring to further over, sorry guys, I'm not trying to rip you to show you it [24:18] Shanna Cox: will be nice to see some green from the street, yeah. [24:22] Penn Lindsay: Yeah, I think the intention of that area is to be green. I can't read where the what the note is on there, is there, is there a [24:35] Craig Burgess: note specifically calling out what this is? Oh, that's like that's a hatch for [24:39] Penn Lindsay: where a specific seed mix is proposed, I see, okay, so yeah, so that is a seeded area. Yeah, I mean, I think realistically after snow is pushed there in the winter, you know, we'll have to do something, I have to do some work on it [24:57] Shanna Cox: every year, but I know that from my from my own street, I think I think it will be [25:14] Penn Lindsay: we usually get it, we usually get it back in our in our snow storage areas pretty [25:20] Shanna Cox: well yeah I know that we've disrupted your engineering talking points quite a been is there anything that you didn't get a chance to say no i think i was i was just [25:29] Craig Burgess: about done okay just about was there something no okay if this real quick the retaining wall yes we did update the retaining wall design between phase one and phase two and that's shown right here so you can see how there is there is quite a bit of two and phase three yes phase two, phase three. [25:49] Shanna Cox: You said one and two. There's not much between one and two, you hope, right? [25:52] Craig Burgess: Yeah. Yeah, the phase two building. [25:54] Shanna Cox: There really shouldn't be too much between one and two. [25:56] Craig Burgess: The phase two building's right here, so we are breaking up the elevation change between phase two, phase three with a retaining wall. [26:05] Shanna Cox: What's the height of the wall and what pedestrian access exists between one and two and then down to three? That was something we've been kind of tracking all along. [26:13] Craig Burgess: Yeah, I'll zoom out and go back to the site plan. Tough topography. [26:21] Penn Lindsay: still can't get to shaw's right so while he's saying that the pedestrian access all the way [26:26] Shanna Cox: around to go you do yeah yep it's not it's not for lack of trying it was the meetings that you missed yeah you before your time yeah i used the old lady card didn't help it didn't buy a pathway no in part because the ownership you can't control the side of it yeah [26:48] Craig Burgess: so the wall is roughly five feet or so at its max height and in answering a question about the connectivity that is something we looked at we looked at a connectivity in this area however you can see that just with the grade change the stormwater feature right there trying to create a sidewalk over to phase three from the phase two area was just challenging so the option is to like come down [27:20] Penn Lindsay: yeah i mean there's there is a sidewalk it's just on marston street between phase one and two and phase three and east avenue there's no real easy way and then well so there's a there's a walking sidewalk between marston street and east avenue RIGHT BETWEEN THE PHASE THREE BUILDING AND THE PARKING LOT. SO YOU COME DOWN THAT, YEP. AND THEN WE ALSO WERE VERY DELIBERATE ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT WE CONNECTED THE SIDEWALK TO THE MARSTON STREET, THE PHASE THREE SIDEWALK TO THE MARSTON STREET SIDEWALK BEFORE THE CURB CUT. So you don't actually have to even cross the curb cut on Phase Three. Now, do we think there's going to be much traffic going in and out of the Phase Three parking lot? Very little, but it is hatched with, you know, as a crosswalk there. So the Marston Street sidewalk where at the curb cut for Phase Three will have, you know, a striped crosswalk, but you don't even have to take that. If you wanted to walk from Phase One and Two, you walk down Marston Street and then you take a right and then you walk right past the building and that brings you right over to East Avenue and then you can go left and you're around at the intersection. You can go either direction from there without, you know, without having [28:45] Speaker J (unidentified): to cross that traffic path. Can I ask a question about the retaining wall while we're [28:49] Shanna Cox: in that vicinity? Sure. Thinking about your end users and it being dark, is there anything at the top side of the five foot retaining wall like a bar or a fence that's protecting, thinking about nighttime wandering, just to be really candid, whether it's them or their grandkids, that will prevent any on unintended journeys over the five? Lighting is there if there's a lot of, quite a bit of lighting then it, you know, that so there's some emergency exits that come out that [29:23] Speaker J (unidentified): right and it's pretty close, right? Am I reading it correctly there are not emergency exits? [29:30] Penn Lindsay: It's, yeah, the emergency exit empties into that small, I guess it's a patio area, and then brings you right over to the and you would obviously stay on the on the sidewalk and bring [29:42] Shanna Cox: you over to the parking area or run like hell if things are on fire. What's that? Or run like hell if things are on fire. You might not follow the patio, you might walk away from the building quickly. [29:52] Penn Lindsay: Yeah, we don't, we definitely don't anticipate people coming out that exit and taking a right toward, you know, toward the retaining wall, but there is not a fence there. No, there currently that [30:15] Shanna Cox: might be something you consider. I don't know that it makes sense for us to require it, but you might want to [30:20] Speaker J (unidentified): consider it before need-based. Yeah, what might make sense is to have some [30:26] Penn Lindsay: kind of offense when you come out of the emergency exit so that you can't [30:30] Shanna Cox: take a right, you've got to take a left as you come out. A patio and some ma's outside where they're a four-year-old and I've had four-year-olds and they're fast, yeah, so small things like that. How [30:49] Speaker D (unidentified): much of a great is it? Is it a steep deep drop or is it a gradual descent from the, I mean if it's a retaining wall? No, it's five feet. [30:57] Craig Burgess: Straight down, okay. Yeah, these slopes right here are three to one, so for every foot drop, three feet of horizontal change. All right, so there's plenty of space, except for where the [31:10] Shanna Cox: retaining wall is a five foot dead drop. Okay, main drop, it's not even a dead drop, it's only five feet, it's just a main drop, we'll call it. Okay, that might be something you put, oh, it looks like a [31:22] Speaker D (unidentified): great place to be sledding in the winter. I'm not sure that's what's going to happen. I can say this [31:26] Shanna Cox: only because my dad does not watch these, but my dad, who's 70 and very adept, has terrible night vision and 3D, like any type of depth perception, and is a choice example to use. Absolutely, [31:42] Penn Lindsay: absolutely, there will be, there will be lighting in all of the exit areas for [31:51] Craig Burgess: sure, and all the parking lots have lighting, so that area may receive some residual lighting, but the lighting is really aimed at the walk-in areas, like around the parking lots, so phase one, phase two, and phase three all have [32:08] Speaker D (unidentified): similar lighting schemes. Yeah, is this all down lighting? You guys meeting all the standards for [32:16] Shanna Cox: yeah, even just having the retaining wall be lit, so that there, because I think about somebody who's not a resident, probably shouldn't be there taking [32:26] Penn Lindsay: a shortcut. Yeah, it's a good, it's a really good point. I think something we should look at, we don't, we don't want to have dark areas on the site. Yeah, at all, not with a five foot drop. Next, so yeah, that's a very good point. It's just like an [32:42] Speaker J (unidentified): LED strip. Yeah, lighting, or maybe plantings that just sort of make it difficult to accidentally [32:48] Shanna Cox: wander, a couple brushes, so you bump into something before you take a, yeah, a topple. I don't want to hold it up, and I don't think there's any reason for us to add a condition, but [33:00] Penn Lindsay: boy oh boy you're going to want to consider that before yeah no absolutely like i said i think it's a very important point it's something we're going to look at because it 's you know safety and you know security too is the other thing would you like to talk about the insides that aren't the [33:18] Shanna Cox: engineering time? We got a full disclosure on that, but did you want to talk about unit style units? [33:23] Penn Lindsay: is there anything else you want to talk about absolutely i mean i think that one thing that i didn't say at the beginning that i intended to which is that as with phase one and two phase 3 is senior housing, so age 55 plus for all the residents at all three phases. They will all be one-bedroom apartments, and they will all have very similar layouts. So Phase 1 and Phase 2 are basically carbon copies of one another in the layouts. Phase 3, as the units are drawn right now, they are the same exact layout. out so you come in enter from the double loaded corridor and your you know your bathroom is located in the interior part of the unit as is your kitchen and then you've got a living room and a bedroom facing the exterior with the exterior [34:18] Speaker J (unidentified): windows. Are there two bedroom units in any of the phases? No, all one bedrooms. Do you offer senior housing somewhere that does have two bedrooms? We offer housing that has two [34:35] Penn Lindsay: bedrooms. It's not necessarily restricted to seniors. Gotcha. We're, so Soleil, the property that we're developing that we'll talk about in a bit, has 72 units, 60 of which are one beds and 12 of which are two beds. So there is that mix of units there. It's not restricted to seniors, but we do anticipate that most of the units at that building will probably be single people or seniors, just probably not a [35:07] Shanna Cox: lot of families there. I hear a lot from seniors who prefer homogenous generational living, so don't want to be in a mixed generational environment, who would like to downsize together, husband-wife couples usually, and who have not shared a bedroom in decades, and so there is, I'm sure by overall number it's not a huge amount, but there is some requests for folks who feel like the only way for them to downsize into something rental is to share room that they haven't done for a very long time, or to live with young families. So it's nice to know that I'll offer them that as the explanation. Yep. Well, and that's, that's a good [35:54] Penn Lindsay: point, and I would say that with Soleil, even though it's not restricted seniors, we really don't anticipate there being young families there. It's not fun for your property, two bedrooms at max, so while it's possible, it's, it's, and it's also not the, I mean, it's the only 12 out of, out of 72 total units would be two bedrooms, so I do think that probably offers an option for the kind of downsizer that you're referring to. Yeah, otherwise they just stay in their four [36:33] Shanna Cox: bedroom homes that we desperately need to turn into inventory. Communities no need to is really [36:38] Speaker J (unidentified): No need to live in more space than you need. Yeah, well, only because there's no place to move out of [36:42] Shanna Cox: it. But which is the restricting factor? Yeah, are there any questions from the board for the [36:47] Craig Burgess: applicant, Darren? Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong or misremembering this, didn't we review an ordinance change so that there could be a commercial space? Yeah, that is right, yes. So this is my question [37:00] Penn Lindsay: too okay i don't see a drive-through that's right there 's there's a lot a parcel which is out against Lisbon Street in the corner of Lisbon and in the east which is Intended for commercial use but as of right now there 's nothing that we are proposing for it and When and if that does happen, it will come back before the board for review [37:30] Speaker J (unidentified): you now is this development taking advantage of the contract zone that we put in place so that you can get additional height on the building [37:39] Penn Lindsay: because that was one of the, yes it is, okay, yep, so this is a four-story building which would not have been permitted under the previous zoning and [37:48] Speaker J (unidentified): so in terms of the massing between the two buildings, it's not, they're gonna be sort of equal height because of that five-foot, exactly, because the site [37:57] Penn Lindsay: does slope down toward Lisbon Street, the phase 3 building will not appear to be noticeably larger or higher, excuse me, then in the phase one or two boys, it may be slightly higher, but there will be relatively close in height, it's good. [38:15] Speaker J (unidentified): There, did you have any other questions? No, that answers my question, I guess when [38:19] Craig Burgess: we reviewed before I thought that it was attached, so I'm sorry, you thought it was attached, yeah, I thought the commercial business was going to be attached to face, oh no, and if [38:30] Penn Lindsay: that was what came across when we, when we presented it, did come that way, yes, yeah, that was [38:37] Craig Burgess: I took it as separate at the time, we were like looking at both options, yeah, this for your [38:49] Shanna Cox: goals of having a clean approval for your next application round, this was a good approach. [38:55] Penn Lindsay: Great. Yeah, we think so. [38:58] Shanna Cox: Alex, did you have another question? [39:00] Speaker J (unidentified): Sure. Yeah. I was wondering, I noticed you have some bicycle furniture out front, a couple of racks. Do you have any interior bicycle storage? Just thinking about, again, 55 plus, you know, I'm thinking about my own parents. They're going to have to stop driving soon. So walking and biking, you know, biking is a good way to get some low impact exercise. size is there going to be anything so that people can keep their bikes out of the weather and you know in a safe spot there's [39:30] Penn Lindsay: Not currently interior bike storage designed into the plan, but it is something that we have done at other [39:39] Speaker A (unidentified): buildings. For instance, we are doing that at Soleil. There was some interior [39:48] Shanna Cox: I thought I saw some interior bike storage on in phase one. [39:55] Speaker J (unidentified): I think so. I think there was interior storage that could possibly be used for bikes. But I think, you know, the point, you know, I can think, like, if I was older and I wanted to go to Shaw's, I would bring a little shopping cart with me so I don't have to carry my bags back. It would be wonderful to have space like that for the residents to store things like that so it's not cluttering up their apartment, creating a trip hazard. Things like that, but I know you know spaces at a premium here. So I don't know if there's any you know, I was looking at a laundry space and things like that. Yeah [40:27] Penn Lindsay: So you're right spaces at a premium and our architects at Platts have drawn this building very efficiently. We don't have interior bug storage now. It's something I could ask them to look into to but as of right now it's not included. Yeah even if it's just a small amount you know I think [40:50] Speaker J (unidentified): That can really make the difference for someone to have that extra mobility option and not be sort of trapped in their apartment you know or you know have their life dictated by the bus schedule right. The other question I had you know is more general feedback you know looking at how phase one and two morphed over a couple of approvals and extensions, and it became, I think, less oriented towards East Avenue. You know, it sort of started to reorient towards the parking lot. Phase three doesn't have that problem, because I don't think you could make it orient away from East Avenue more than it already is at this point, but I guess something to think about is you know in providing connections to the street you know the approachability of the building also really makes a big difference you know if it's just sort of a random little sidewalk you know you look at the rendering here it's very unclear where you enter in you know you can see in some of the other rent you Know there's, there's the entrance to the building, so if you're coming in off of Marsden or you're coming in off of East, you know, sure, there's a sidewalk and eventually you'll get to the entrance, but you know when we, people often look sort of for a face in a building design to know where the entrances are, and that's not the case here on either of the street sides. It's really only the case from the parking lot, and so I guess just thinking about, you know, these are supposed to be senior house. Senior housing, I can imagine a lot of folks are going to be walking, you know, just making it a friendly place that looks approachable as you walk in, I think does count for something, and that's, you know, I'm, it's not gonna have any bearing on my decision tonight, but just something to think about for your developments, especially for senior developments, is making them good for walking. Sure, so great. [42:44] Penn Lindsay: You know, great comments, and I will say that the, architects attempted to make the building entrance more visible by bumping it out there in the, in the middle. We talked a lot about whether it was a center entrance building or on one of the sides. We settled on the middle because it's a one elevator building, and you know, for the people that are, you know, way down at one end is, you know, so it's a long walk this way if we put the elevator or in the middle, it's sort of, you know, the longest walk. That anyone has in the building is half the distance of the length of it, so that's kind of why we ended up there. You know, obviously it's a residential building without any commercial component to it. We don't expect a lot of traffic other than residents. There will, of course, be visitors, but your point about sort of accessibility and pedestrian access, that is absolutely top on our mind, and I think that one of the things we really want to do is make the, connection to East Avenue as sort of you. Know, I don't want to say inviting because we don't want to just have people walking in off the street necessarily, but we want, when you know, when our residents are coming and going from the building, we want it to be a pleasant experience, and so, you know, that's why, I mean, Craig started to talk about some of the landscaping, and then that we really are focusing in that area to make sure that, you know, that entrance off of East Avenue is, you know, well landscaped and attractive and just a pleasant way. to come and go from the building and then of course the pedestrian access on the other side you know we really wanted to be sure that you know you could you could walk off of the sidewalk on Marston Street with you know without ever even crossing a street so you can go from phase one to phase two and you never have to cross a road so if there are people that are friends between two buildings you know it's a perfectly safe accessible means of sort of traversing between the two thanks I've got a [45:05] Shanna Cox: comment it's so I'm looking at the plans and the in the bathroom I mean I hope you're not putting in bathtubs I hope you're putting in showers there is [45:17] Penn Lindsay: there will be and this is true with phases one and two there's a mix of bathtubs and showers and roll-in showers the it's hard because you know we actually have a building that we designed or I should say some of the people that work at Lewiston housing now designed at a previous place of employment for seniors and they put all showers in there and all sudden they got a bunch of requests for tubs and so they had to you know go back so people do want tubs and so we're gonna have a mix that way we can try to accommodate everybody's needs and we do have the ability to move people around when vacancies occur and they have a preference you know we'll put them on a list and we'll say okay look you're next up for a unit with a shower if there wasn't available one available when they [46:09] Shanna Cox: moved in right or vice versa right I at least if you're putting in bathtubs put in bars oh [46:18] Penn Lindsay: absolutely so every unit in the in the building will either be fully accessible with grab bars or it will be adaptable and it will have all the black blocking in the walls to add grab bars if [46:30] Speaker A (unidentified): those are requested okay just from experience yeah pressure experience no that's [46:41] Speaker G (unidentified): yeah i just continue to be concerned about the trash management i mean now we've got two dumpsters a little one in phase three and a slightly larger one so two dumpsters for 132 units where people have to go now from the fourth floor down the elevator over the sidewalk to dump their trash just there's no kind of trash in indoor truly they're not indoor management [47:10] Shanna Cox: similar to what we saw when i was in pine street it was like rooms for yeah there are there are [47:17] Penn Lindsay: not indoor trash rooms in these buildings but we have tried to make the routes to the trash to the exterior dumpsters as convenient as possible but there are not indoor trash rooms in the buildings [47:36] Speaker G (unidentified): it's just a really long way it'd be I mean I know it's late in the game but it would be I think that's an [47:44] Shanna Cox: issue there's programming and maybe the ability to support your tenants i just think about somebody like coming home post-surgery and you ending up with a pest infestation because they literally [47:55] Penn Lindsay: couldn't make it right well and that is something that we can handle through management accommodations and i know that we do have we have done that as on an as needed basis people have requests for reasonable accommodations and if they've got Something that precludes them from being able to get their you know They're trashed the dumpster then our management team does figure out a way to help with that, you know with that process [48:24] Speaker G (unidentified): And will there be recycling also? [48:28] Penn Lindsay: There I don't know the answer to that whether there has been a whether there will be a separate recycling I'm not sure what the What the city requirement is I can look into that though [48:41] Speaker J (unidentified): if there were I would guess you would because that's size for a standard dumpster and you would need two separate dumpsters for recycling so it seems like there isn't right now but that would be probably pretty nice as an amenity to be able to recycle I have one more question once the rest of the board [49:02] Shanna Cox: is finished okay I've got a question and if you don't mind then I would like to ask it yes I'm on a 2 0 1 which looks a lot like this and I'm specifically looking at the east elevation and what feels to be a very large blank wall and I guess I'm asking Shelley first and foremost is this not in the design district it is not and our 15-foot blank wall doesn't go for residential beyond on to the design district that's right okay so then I can point it out but not ask for a condition that way we're at okay yeah you have a very big blank wall I've pointed it out and can you help me orient elevation is this pointing towards East Ave or Marston Street I mean it's the skinny side of the [49:57] Speaker J (unidentified): building right that's facing Marston Street that's right so to Alex's point [50:03] Shanna Cox: point you're welcome for people coming from phases one and two or from people in the other apartment buildings in that area or for really anybody coming into it your phase three is like I don't know the 2026 version of a snub-nosed garage being the hello that you get at a house from [50:22] Penn Lindsay: An architectural standpoint, right, yes. And it's a, you know, it's a good point, and one that we have talked about. What we could do there is add a row of windows, which would, or sort of column of windows, which would be at the end of that corridor, and it would also bring natural light into the corridor. And actually I thought we did have that, to tell you the truth, because this is actually something we discussed. [50:53] Shanna Cox: Could be just a, so old image, but it does. It also, to Alex's point, I don't, I don't know if these two doors are meant to be only exits and only emergency exits, but even the, I need a spot outside because I'm superstitious to open my umbrella so that I can then take my trash to the dumpster. Doesn't even have an overhang. [51:16] Speaker D (unidentified): Isn't that the trash exit right there, that's the one, yeah, you know what I mean. [51:23] Penn Lindsay: Like just a, yeah, and I think what's going on there, and we don't have the architect here tonight, obviously, but while we want the door to be, you don't. [51:35] Shanna Cox: Want it so welcoming that everybody, that's the thing, and so that's why they. [51:38] Penn Lindsay: Didn't put a overhang over it, but I could see, I mean, a small overhang that doesn't have a utilitarian, smaller overhang would be, would make some sense there, so I like that. [51:50] Speaker J (unidentified): Idea too, like a four foot, size of a human umbrella, and keep in mind there is a tree that's going to be right in front of this door, so it's not like, oh yes, the overhang, this will be very inviting, like you will have to walk around the tree on the sidewalk to get to it, so it won't look like, I mean, you know, you will, the main entrance will catch your eye, I think, with the way the design, I do wonder, sort of piggybacking what you just said, you know, our design overlay district doesn't really allow for. Murals per se to deal with situations like that, but I do wonder about surface treatments, and again, you know, this is about making, I view this as sort of an accessibility thing, to be able to describe that building to someone, you know, if you were able to say, oh yes, it's the one with, you know, the siding that has been put in that looks like a, I don't know, a big flower or something, you know, something where. [52:44] Shanna Cox: You can say we've used changes in texture, yeah, because it's permanent and can't just like wash away or be repainted, as a treatment for those, you know, windows will go a long way, and I think your people inside would appreciate that as well, yeah, but this is essentially you're welcome from the street, and I can appreciate that you want, you just, sorry, yeah, not that this. [53:09] Penn Lindsay: Need signage in there. Yeah, I hear what you're saying and agree. I think, you know, by adding the column of windows that will break up that spot, I do think also there will be trees in front of that area which are eventually going to grow and sort of block that. And the last thing I'll say is that as you're coming up Marston Street and looking at the building, you're actually more seeing the front of the building as opposed to the side. So, you know, I appreciate the comments. Coming right car right. Yeah, I mean, I think the front, the front of the building will be what people see first, and this is very much the kind of the side, and we do have the changes in texture there on the side of the building as well, where you see the, you know, the clapboard siding and then the panelized siding on the kind of the vertical areas where the windows are. Yeah, it is what the 2020s will be. [54:10] Shanna Cox: Remembered at an architectural books at some point in the future, cement board this. Yes. Yeah. [54:15] Speaker J (unidentified): yeah did you ask your question sir no i did not i noticed i think it's on the fourth floor plan there is a storage PV electrical room which seems pretty good sized I'm guessing that's mainly for electrical equipment but like what sort of the [54:37] Penn Lindsay: other storage that might be going on in there so we also have to yeah we have to leave space for the few potential future installation of solar panels and the any equipment that would be in inside the building for that the interior mechanical spaces have not fully been flushed out yet I think that the architect is trying to be conservative with how much space is [55:12] Speaker J (unidentified): picturing a bike rack in there by chance just a couple i think you could as someone who used to [55:16] Penn Lindsay: be in the solar business i think you could end it both and as we get into full design development of the building we very well may have some spots like that we could carve out for interior bike storage yeah but as of right now you know there's a lot of things going on that we're trying to work through for instance with all the baba requirements on us from a construction standpoint we don't even know yet what hva system hvac systems were going to be able to use we've got a waiver that's going to Be going into HUD simultaneously with our submission to Main Housing, but these waivers have been taking years, literally, to, you know, to get, if you get them at all. And so, you know, we have to have a plan, a plan B, and potentially even plan C for, you know, some of this stuff, some of this stuff. And that leaves us with an uncertainty with how some of those mechanical spaces are actually used. Yeah, but we, you know, we feel like we've got enough space to, you know, to accommodate right now, and we may have some [56:25] Speaker G (unidentified): we may have some extra. That's it, just one under the details. So it looks like every single [56:31] Speaker A (unidentified): unit has space for the HVAC system. That's right at the what's drawn right [56:38] Penn Lindsay: now is a HVAC system that goes in the wall between the living room in the bedroom, and there are, there are heads that face one into the bedroom, one into the living room for heat and cooling. So [56:58] Speaker G (unidentified): that's heat pump space, is that what you're telling me? Correct. Okay, and so then on the first floor to Alex's bike storage question, the electrical sprinkler mechanic room on the first floor, I'm just wondering how much stuff's going to be in there, like if everybody's got their own heating system and all you have is like a sprinkler riser, like that's a, that's a lot of space. Yes, in the corner unit there, right on the [57:28] Penn Lindsay: the first floor. Yeah, and that's, that's exactly my point is that we may be a little bit conservative with what we have set aside for mechanical spaces right now, but because we don't 100% know what our final mechanical systems are gonna look like, we want to be conservative with that. Okay, and will [57:48] Speaker G (unidentified): every unit have its own breaker panel? [57:52] Penn Lindsay: I believe so. [57:55] Speaker J (unidentified): Craig's like civil engineering, not electric. I'm trying to recall how that [58:04] Speaker G (unidentified): will be set up. I'm just saying that as a landlord, it is awesome to give everybody their own breaker panel. Yeah, then they're not calling you if something, and I know it's all gonna be modern electric, but just curious. My dad's condo in Florida had all this stuff in his unit along with trash at the end of the hallway on every floor, so watching him age in place is where I, you know, I know [58:30] Shanna Cox: For folks who are sitting on this side of the applicant, that this seems silly, but we do need to put this to a public hearing. And so if any members of the public would like to come in from the hallway, since there are none in here, would welcome you to do so. Come to the podium, speak for no more than three minutes after introducing yourself. Just give that another minute. If there's any, anyone who'd like to speak on public comment on this agenda item, this is your opportunity to. Seeing none, we'll close public comment. Is there any final questions from the board before we seek a motion? Yeah. I'll make a motion that I better open it up to the motion. Well, make a motion that the application submitted by the Lewiston Housing Authority and Lewis and Auburn area Housing Development Corporation for a new four-story apartment building containing 44 dwelling units at 860 Lisbon Street meets all the necessary criteria contained in the zoning and land use code, including but not limited to article 13 section 4 approval criteria and section 5 coordinating, coordination with state subdivision law that approval be granted with the following conditions. One, prior to signing the site plan, the landscaping plan be updated to provide buffering meeting the requirements of the ordinance around the transformer adjacent to east avenue. Two, prior to signing the site plan, comments from public works be addressed. Three, prior to the issuance of a building permit, the applicant shall prepare a subdivision plan signed by a surveyor and filed by the register of deeds. For prior to the issuance of a building permit, the applicant shall provide documentation addressing the affordable housing density bonus eligibility requirements, including but not limited to providing a copy of the restrictive covenant to be filed with the registry of deeds. Five, prior to the issuance of a building permit, the applicant shall file a stormwater maintenance guarantee letter with the registry of deeds. Six, prior to the issuance of a certificate of occupancy, the applicant's engineer shall certify that all improvements have been completed in accordance with the approved plans, including but not limited to storm water and utilities, pavement, plantings, and exterior [1:01:07] Speaker I (unidentified): building materials. Thank you so much, lucy. Is there a second? [1:01:13] Shanna Cox: Thank you. Welcome to full voting. Any discussion on the site? Hearing none. Can you call the roll? Sure can. After all of that, after all of that? Amy Smith. Yes, Lucy Bisson. Yes Shanna Cox. Yes Alexander pine. Yes, Heidi Bertolt Bertels. Yes, and Darren Gillette thanks congratulations though I encourage you not to move because I believe you are our other business as well very much we look forward to your continued development of that site sorry I missed the groundbreaking but I'm just excited to see it is Shelly seems like she's coming over to do some swapping as she does so we'll take a quick bio break three minute recess or five or whatever you need yeah good luck godspeed who's [1:02:17] Speaker D (unidentified): gonna fight me for the bathroom are you [1:02:19] Shanna Cox: lucy looks like she's gonna win i don't think it's a fight at all go lucy go [1:02:26] Speaker D (unidentified): there's another maybe i have like an hour back [1:02:32] Shanna Cox: appreciated i tend to clock in maybe an hour and 25 minutes [1:02:43] Speaker F (unidentified): that without it zooming in like too much chile do you have the ability to so it'll zoom when you [1:02:49] Shanna Cox: need to but like okay you have the key to unlock the other restroom for the entire board so that you're not waiting for everybody to go through one public thank you sorry great [1:03:04] Penn Lindsay: how about you thanks for thinking about that blank wall space absolutely i honestly it's a great comment and I thought we already had windows because we definitely discussed that and it's a much nicer just yeah much nicer whole you know experience of being in those you know corridors when you know you've got some natural light down at the end [1:03:33] Speaker J (unidentified): Yeah, windowless rooms are usually not given a whole lot of social match. No,. [1:03:40] Shanna Cox: My dad, who's 70, bikes 13 miles at least three days a week. [1:03:46] Craig Burgess: Good for him. [1:03:48] Speaker J (unidentified): That little section is not very great for biking, but as soon as you get over past the mall, it's really pleasant. And they can get you to a lot of really, like, I can imagine, like, if I lived there, like, there's doctor's offices down there. Like, I could get to the hospital really easily. [1:04:04] Shanna Cox: When I worked on Lisbon Street, he would park his car where he volunteered three days a week at Mr. Drew's when it was in Lisbon. And then he would go out and bike. Yeah. And come back for his volunteership. And he did, he did, like, all of this downtown. [1:04:19] Speaker J (unidentified): Yeah, it's really easy to bike and really pleasant. He's a trooper. [1:04:24] Speaker I (unidentified): I'm not. I haven't biked in 20 years not with traffic you kid not I just I'm not sure [1:04:30] Shanna Cox: enough and there's no place nearby to get there's no place to get my skill and yeah the battery is just yeah let's go hit two lanes of traffic and see how That goes, yeah, so that is linked at Main, all of the main arteries, East Avenue, they're all, you know, traffic goes, they go so fast. Russell, yeah, well, what East [1:04:54] Speaker J (unidentified): have has going for it is by the high school, that whole block, yeah, it's like a triple wide side, yeah, so you can use the sidewalk and it, I honestly, I think that's really the solution, yeah, across the [1:05:06] Shanna Cox: board for all of our major arterial. Did you look at the, you can't say that, you've got to go look at [1:05:11] Speaker J (unidentified): the slides that you missed. Okay, yeah, I saw them before they got presented to us, that's why I asked for them to get connected to us. Oh, okay. You're welcome. You know, did you hear about the streets sort of getting dissolved on the Morgan side? Yeah. No. [1:05:27] Shanna Cox: Yeah, they dissolved. Yeah, I read about it in the paper. So, but. Oh, last month, six weeks. Yeah, it's been a bit. It's been a bit. It's a good six weeks, two months. [1:05:37] Speaker J (unidentified): But I think it's a good time for us to revisit our ordinance, and I'm really hoping that we can, you know. [1:05:42] Shanna Cox: You can call the committee about that one. [1:05:43] Speaker J (unidentified): Let me just change their ordinance so it's just, yep, but I think of course, yeah, the complete [1:05:53] Shanna Cox: streets, the thing that they need here though, Auburn said they didn't want to be part of a joint land use plan, which is, yes, they still have their ordinance now says it's just, they're just gonna go out, right, okay, not okay, we're waiting for Shelly. Oh, I'm hoping you like your energy though, since she has to take minutes and stuff, she probably wants to be in the room, yeah, I couldn't imagine having to take minutes from recordings. Well, I think, yeah, [1:06:24] Penn Lindsay: I think they do it, do they broadcast these meetings on YouTube? It's not live, it's not [1:06:31] Speaker I (unidentified): post them later, it's not, oh yeah, a couple of days later there, okay, yeah, it'd be fun if we could take callers, I really enjoy the idea, we didn't even do that with during going online, a lot of municipalities [1:06:47] Penn Lindsay: do that, yeah, do they public comment by phone? No, by Zoom, by Zoom, oh yeah, I think if you want a public [1:06:55] Shanna Cox: comment you got to show up, yeah, I mean, or at least like have your face be known, like if you were, if you were at home and your face became this big screen behind me, keyboard warrior, but had to like really be accountable in the grocery store to what you said at Planet, then go ahead, that sounds great, but no mystery comments, 50 page submissions to our public anyway. Ma'am, are you ready? Yes, I am. Okay, that sounds great, we were really excited and almost carried on, I'm gonna gavel us back from recess. We're moving on to other business. Agenda item 6a, Lewiston Housing Authority. Welcome back. And Lewiston Auburn Area Housing Development Corporation have submitted a request for an extension to the approval of the Martell School Apartments phase two, located at 860 Lisbon Street, developing 44 new apartments. Welcome back. Is there anything you [1:07:49] Speaker F (unidentified): you wanted to preface this with, Shelly? Only to say that this project, when you originally approved it, they had two phases they were looking at doing for a total of 72 units, I believe. It wait, is this, are we doing so, Larry? No, this is [1:08:08] Shanna Cox: delay. Sorry, item b. We're on item a. Sorry about that. Phase two. Okay, so this contains 44 [1:08:17] Speaker F (unidentified): dwellings, and this portion of the building is going to be attached to the phase one building. So even though it's being approved in two phases, it will eventually look like one building. So it was approved on August 12th of 2024. If the extension is approved, then they would have until August 12 of 2028 to start construction. Excuse [1:08:45] Shanna Cox: my ignorance, but we've only not started because you're still working on one, but you have broken ground in the site, you've secured financing and approval from the state, correct? Yes, this is just about giving the right spot the right [1:08:57] Penn Lindsay: shovel full in the right timeline. That's right. I'll just add that the phase two and phase one application were made on the same night, but phase one was approved more initially, and so we've moved that ahead. Obviously, we've closed. Phase two was approved subsequently by Maine Housing, and so I don't actually feel like we're behind schedule in phase two. It's really just a sequencing issue, and we don't expect to need anywhere near the two-year extension we're requesting. As I said, we look to be starting construction hopefully in six months. Yeah. Questions [1:09:45] Speaker J (unidentified): from the board? Mr. Pine? I was going to make a motion. Oh, great. Any questions? No. Okay, I'd like to make a motion pursuant to article 13, section 11 is zoning and land use code, to grant a two-year extension of the August 12, 2024 development review approval to Lewiston Housing Authority and Lewiston Auburn Area Housing Development Corporation for the amendment of the development review of phase two of the Martel School Apartments at 860 Lisbon Street until August 12th, 2028 to start construction. Second. Thank you. Any [1:10:21] Shanna Cox: discussion on this agenda item? Call the roll. Amy Smith? Yes. Lucy Bisson? Yes. Shanna Cox? Yes. Alexander Pine? Yes. Heidi Bertels? Yes. And Darren Gala? Yes. Well done. Congratulations, gentlemen. You can clear the way for our next applicant. Thanks for being here. [1:10:44] Speaker D (unidentified): I know. That's why it's funny. Oh, you're funny. Craig's going to take off. [1:10:48] Shanna Cox: You can't make it through a two-hour session and not have a little humor in, folks. Absolutely. You didn't even hear me say clear the room for the next applicant. But that was pretty good. Oh, I heard. [1:10:57] Penn Lindsay: Yeah, OK, great. It was funny, right? You didn't see me, you didn't see me bolt out. Yeah, would you be willing to get [1:11:02] Speaker J (unidentified): different hats next time so we can just change them? Other business, be Lewiston [1:11:11] Shanna Cox: Housing Authority has submitted a request for an extension, approval of the Soleil Apartments phases one and two. Are we pronouncing a Soleil? So I thank you, got it right. Phases one and two located at 61 Ash Street, developing 72 new apartments and first floor commercial space. Shelly, are you going to join the applicant at the table? [1:11:32] Speaker F (unidentified): It looks like I am, because I'm pulling up the drawing here. Thanks. So this extension is for their apartment building with commercial space on the first floor at 61 Ash Street. This was also granted approval on August 12th of 2024. Again, the extension would be until August 12th of 2028 to start construction. It has a total of 72 affordable dwelling units, and this is the project that had two phases planned that you approved on the same evening because they weren't sure how it was going to get funded but as it's been all funded, they plan to move ahead in one [1:12:17] Shanna Cox: phase. So we'll now only refer to it as this loyal apartments, and it is, that's right, all of them taking off the face, that's exciting. Yeah, okay, thanks. You're not making any changes, this is again just a simple extension, correct? We are [1:12:36] Penn Lindsay: preparing a memo with a overview of a few changes that were made between original approval and now, and that will be coming separately to you for approval, and if you think that it requires us to come back in front, we certainly will. We think of them as de minimis changes, but you'll be able to review that and decide. [1:13:00] Shanna Cox: Thanks. I do, you always give me a run for my money with requests, Mr. Pine, when we [1:13:09] Speaker J (unidentified): First approved this. I think you actually brought this up, making sure that the retail spaces were correctly sized for this market, just given that, you know, a lot of small businesses are also small in their footprint. Was any work done on that? I can't remember exactly what I remember originally seeing. I want to say we maybe had less retail spaces. Like, is that something you're addressing in the de minimis? Yeah, this is also the other way to have that. So to answer the [1:13:39] Penn Lindsay: question, we tried to design these commercial spaces to be flexible. So if you, if you see the spaces are really three different sizes, so small, medium, large, and I can give you the exact square footages on those if you like, but the idea is that the, you know, the spaces could also be combined if someone needed an even larger space. So I don't mean you're putting in one at ten [1:14:15] Shanna Cox: or fifteen thousand one block over. Yes, just one on your Pine Street project. [1:14:21] Penn Lindsay: Yep, so yeah, the Pine Street, this, so this is in total about eight thousand square feet of commercial space, and then though, and then the DeWitt project over on pine is about between the two buildings about 15. Yes, that's right, because on one of the buildings there is management office space and there is community room that doesn't exist on the other. Both have lobbies, residential lobbies, but only one of the buildings has the management office space and the [1:15:01] Shanna Cox: the community room. Just in terms of good investment and good planning on your part, this board has also seen early approval of additional housing with commercial on the first floor that's like three, four blocks away, Lowell Square, that also has some significant square footage of commercial in it. So it is in your benefit to be flexible in terms of yours being occupied, particularly in this current market. I think global is only 5,000 most just a [1:15:36] Speaker F (unidentified): restaurant space there. Yeah, it's just a smaller, there was housing on the first floor as well. Yeah, okay. [1:15:45] Shanna Cox: Great, any other questions? Yeah, I just am [1:15:50] Speaker G (unidentified): curious how the lease up is going at do it for the commercial spaces. Is it [1:15:55] Penn Lindsay: fully occupied? We don't have leases signed yet, but we do have interest in all of the commercial spaces and we're actively in conversations on those. I shouldn't say we do have a lease signed on one of those spaces, the largest of the three of the four over there, as has a lease. [1:16:16] Speaker G (unidentified): Okay, it just, it does seem like a lot of commercial space and I just don't know that the demand is [1:16:22] Shanna Cox: there but yeah i mean i think part of the demand is being built above it next to it depending on what the commercial space is we're adding significant number i mean it's 200 people in wedgwood what and that didn't come with any commercial no wedgwood doesn't have commercial there's no commercial yes that's thank you 82 units yes right how many people [1:16:47] Speaker J (unidentified): Oh, right. Yes. And those are large. Those are larger family units, correct? And families need, I don't know, groceries and goods. [1:16:54] Shanna Cox: And so I think part of it is building back in a demand. As long as the commercial, I mean, whoever's signing the lease is the one who's gonna judge whether there's right. [1:17:04] Penn Lindsay: Good market choice for them or not. Exactly. I think I can share, because it's public at this point, but we have on the DeWitt build, under the DeWitt Park Streets building, we have Community Credit Union going in as one of the, one of the tenants, which they've, they've announced publicly, so I guess I can say. [1:17:37] Speaker D (unidentified): and then any additional bill out that would have to happen since it would be essentially a bank are they going to have to make security improvements to THE SPACE? [1:17:49] Penn Lindsay: They don't have to make any specific... for themselves. But it's, I mean, by code, I don't think they have to do anything other than what has already been approved, but they would be responsible for their own buildout of the space. [1:18:05] Shanna Cox: They're looking at a different suite of services, including not having a drive-through. So it will be easier to integrate into that. Any other questions before we seek a motion? [1:18:20] Speaker D (unidentified): Is there any restriction on any of these because of your organization? Are there any restrictions on the types of businesses that are allowed to be associated with some of the stuff that's been subsidized by state or federal? [1:18:33] Shanna Cox: Can you put in a cannabis shop? Using examples is always much easier. [1:18:40] Speaker D (unidentified): I like the commercial, but we don't need another weed shop. [1:18:45] Penn Lindsay: Lewiston, yeah, there actually are extensive restrictions on the use of those spaces. Perfect. [1:18:53] Shanna Cox: Okay, great answer. Anyone wants to make a motion on this one? I'll make a motion. Thank you, sir. [1:19:00] Craig Burgess: I'm going to make a motion pursuant to Article 13, Section 11 of the zoning and land use code to grant a two-year extension to the August 12, 2024 development review approval, phases one and two, for Lewiston Housing Authority to construct a mixed-use building with commercial space and apartments at 61 Ash Street until August 12, 2028, for the start of construction. [1:19:25] Shanna Cox: Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Any discussion? Are you anticipating needing more of the two years than you do for your other requests for extension tonight? [1:19:36] Penn Lindsay: Yes, I expect that we will close and begin construction on this project in first quarter of next year. That's great. [1:19:45] Shanna Cox: Super. Thanks. Any other discussion? Call the roll. Amy Smith. Yes. Lucy Bisson. Yes. Shanna Cox. Yes. Alexander Pine. Yes. Heidi Bertels. Yes. Darren Geller. Yes. Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you all. Have a great night. Yeah, your next application, yeah, agenda items, see appointment of a member to the forestry board. This is just to give a little context and to bring everybody up to speed. Zoe moved, when Zoe and for viewers at home, when Zoe moved, her new housing puts her in a ward that already has two members in the planning board, and so the resignation is kind of immediate with the with the moving, and so hence the first continued item at the top of the Zoe was our secretary, she was also our liaison to the forestry board, which is a kind of dual serving position that somebody from the planning board serves. I before we act on this, I would like to inquire if anybody has interest in serving on the forestry board, and if there's any, because I'm sensitive to Rob Penthea and Mike Marcotte of the opportunity, did you get any interest around the forestry board, and can you share a little bit more about its meeting [1:21:09] Speaker F (unidentified): frequency or time? I did not. I did include a memo. Let me track that down. Okay, so it does [1:21:21] Speaker J (unidentified): meet. Let's just go ahead, Alex, for third Thursday of the month, 6 p.m., between Auburn or Lewiston Public Works, Auburn City Hall or Lewiston Public Works, yeah. [1:21:36] Shanna Cox: is anyone here just absolutely burning to serve on the forestry board and what would it take for you to consider it 's actually a really wonderful board yeah that's what I she really enjoyed her service on that board there was there was some broad conversations about types of plantings, the effects of plantings. Yeah. In case you want to branch out. [1:22:02] Speaker D (unidentified): Is the position only open to full members, or is it associate as well? [1:22:08] Shanna Cox: No, it's open to associate as well, isn't it? Is that something you're going to need to check on? [1:22:12] Speaker F (unidentified): Yeah, I'm not aware of any restriction. I [1:22:17] Craig Burgess: am willing to serve. Thank you, duly noted. [1:22:22] Speaker D (unidentified): If there's less interest or no interest, can we have, we have a dual coverage of [1:22:30] Shanna Cox: The position that would be a question that I would want, I do not need to, but what if we took turns? Yeah, I think that she's trying to offer something that is sustainable for the two of you. That's a question that I would ask Shelly for you to follow up with if there's any. I would find that unlikely, frankly, but it's a [1:22:48] Speaker F (unidentified): great question to ask is I would, yeah, I would assume not because it is an appointment to a board of Lewiston and Auburn and it is a member from the planning board. So I mean I can ask the question but it, I'm guessing the answer will be no. Ask so it can be asked and answered. [1:23:08] Shanna Cox: I think this is something Panthea might consider just her some of her other interests and so I would love for her to give that opportunity. I appreciate both of your willingness. What were you going to say, Alex? [1:23:18] Speaker J (unidentified): I was curious about, so when I first became, I think I was, you know, when I was an associate member, this was, like, unfilled for years. And I wonder, given that evidence, if it would be worth just, like, making sure that we are using this position for its highest and best use. You know, I've never, you know, short of having Zoe here who is a professional, you know, expert on forest or professional expert on trees, I've never seen a lot of overlap between the two committees. And I wonder if there's something that we could do, you know, not saying we should get rid of the link, but instead we should do something with it if we have it. And I wonder what the intention is for us to have a seat. [1:24:10] Shanna Cox: There's a whole page that speaks to some of that. [1:24:12] Speaker J (unidentified): But I wonder how it applies to us now, right? Candidly I believe like this, okay. [1:24:21] Shanna Cox: I think what you're asking is what willingness would they be to have, I mean other than vacancies being in here, I don't know how long it was vacant before and how that was okay either. That's because I remember this question coming up and it feeling like oh there's a board that we should be serving on one anyway, it could have been board management, but I think the intention is [1:24:47] Craig Burgess: there Darren is this the only board like this for the planning board like the [1:24:52] Speaker F (unidentified): only have another terminus board do we unless there's another one out there [1:24:56] Shanna Cox: that we don't know about with that I know I believe I think that's right yeah [1:25:04] Speaker J (unidentified): I mean I've often thought that not having this type of relationship with of complete streets yeah didn't make a lot of rights you know thanks [1:25:15] Shanna Cox: Then I would like to continue this concurrent with whatever agenda the election of a secretary falls on. Yep, and I would like to make a motion as such. Second. Thanks. [1:25:32] Speaker F (unidentified): Are you good with that, Shelly? You made the motion. Yeah. Second by [1:25:35] Shanna Cox: by hiding. Yeah, we're gonna call roll on it. Amy Smith, yes. Lucy Bisson, yes. Shanna Cox, yes. Excuse me, Alexander Pine, yes. Heidi Bertels, yes. Darren Gillan, yes. As folks give our papers back for recycling, it is the habit of this board to not, we give you something, and so if you would keep the election of officer memo and this memo to a time future, it's as much for me as it is for you. I think I already saved it. Okay. [1:26:13] Speaker D (unidentified): Informally I will say the more I thought about it, I would be interested in doing [1:26:16] Shanna Cox: this. Yeah, I love that. Thanks. Well, let you and Cynthia wrote, I, she's got new puppies. I'm not sure that she's, yeah, she's got this, but I would like to hear her say no thank you. Yeah, she has a strong interest. She can have it, but okay, other business D, which is a new agenda item that we put on tonight, is some opportunity to ask some questions about our last meeting, of which we had two people absent. So questions, Amy, we'll start [1:26:46] Speaker G (unidentified): with you. Yes, thank you so much. I just wanted to get some clarity on a couple things that were said in the recording. You, Shana, had asked the city to help us understand where we should go if we have issues with staff. Yeah, and are you, were you specifically saying with staff performance of duties? I was not, I was [1:27:09] Shanna Cox: saying any issues of staff, that would be probably the major and most obvious one, and I and I believe that was noted as a follow-up, of which we have not seen [1:27:17] Speaker G (unidentified): follow-up yet. Okay, so no follow-up, so that's what was meant, and there's been [1:27:21] Shanna Cox: been no follow-up. Okay, I just wanted to check in on that. Let's double check that part of, part of what we did clarify, and I think this goes to your next requested item kind of. We did clarify that part of what we're gonna work towards, a staff will work to meet intent and not just the technical components of what's being requested, and Director Connor committed to that. He also committed to understanding or asking if he understood what our intent was before leaving, so that he could better serve that goal. And so with that, Shelly, do you have the same understanding as to which I just shared in response to Amy's question, and is [1:28:06] Speaker F (unidentified): there anything you'd like to add? I don't have anything to add. Okay, great. Okay. [1:28:13] Speaker G (unidentified): Okay great, and then we talked a lot. There's a lot of conversation about the relationship of the Planning Board in the City Council and transparency of communications, and at one point it felt like Director Connor was assuming that the Planning Board in the City Council like religiously watch each other's [1:28:30] Shanna Cox: videoed. Oh, if you were in the room, you, I don't know if that was sarcasm coming through that way, but we readily acknowledged many times that there is no assumption that either body holds, which is why the importance of a direction from any planning board member, but as specifically the chair, saying please educate or share this information or make this request is something that is to be going forward a follow-up action item from the planning board meeting and not something that will be dealt with when there is a city council agenda item that makes it relevant to come up. Okay, because I literally like reviewed [1:29:04] Speaker G (unidentified): the planning board handbook to see if is there a requirement that we watch the [1:29:10] Shanna Cox: speak to anyone else, but I think that we discussed a couple of times and made clear that we, I don't expect that I, that they are watching our planning boards any more than I expect this planning board to be fully versed in every minute of every City Council. Great, I just wanted to clarify that because that is not a requirement of this job. No, and John also didn't feel that was realistic for us, for I think even for staff. Okay great, and then the other [1:29:39] Speaker G (unidentified): question is we talked a little bit about the vacant building and rental registration sort of in one sort of gulp, and I think it would be great to understand in both cases. There was one statement was made that there was outreach done to commercial property owners around the vacant property ordinance to get feedback, but I would be very curious to know how and when that happened and who they got feedback from, because certainly I definitely never saw any kind of public, you know, outreach to get that same with the rental registration program, though that there was a comment that was like oh yes, you know, we're working on that and we'll come back with you. Well, what's actually happening with that, and how can the public engage, or how can we as a planning board engaged on something as important as the rental registry? Yeah, thanks, can i try [1:30:33] Shanna Cox: Making that more specific, yes, so that we can assess whether our request was met or not. Shelly, is you work to bring a future agenda item to this planning board about both the rental registry and the vacant buildings, and we did hear verbally that was being worked on, there was some data that was being found. I'm looking to Darren, we got a memo from Director Connor at the end of the last meeting, which was just the vacant building. Yes, I think it prompted a commitment to bring both forward for a discussion. I think with additional, it sounded like that was future meeting agenda. Yeah, and we made some specific requests, I think, around what would like to be included or addressed in particular. Yes, and so to that end, if you could amend that request list as Shelley to include the outreach actions and types and maybe even a sample, if it was, I don't know, press release or something that went out, what from a communications perspective went out to folks about the commercial vacancy that the request similar to how you're able to say we sent a list to a butters and it was 16 people and this is what the memo looked like. I think it'd be helpful to understand the nature and type of the outreach as well as the timeline of outreach efforts. Is that 's it for part one? Okay, but did that, yes, yep. So our ability to have better follow-up and to make sure that the requests that we're asking for, there's oftentimes we ask for things and yes, and so making sure we have a clear ask and that we're also tracking where those asks sit is part of the responsibility and commitment we're making. Okay, great, yeah, part two, part two, and this is, sorry, we're still on questions, I'm so sorry. Okay, those are, those were part two is not next agenda item, next agenda, any other questions from last meeting, you weren't the only one absent. Okay, great, okay, then I would move us to agenda item e, the process to suggest and request updates to ordinances and policies. Right, so specifically there are a [1:32:53] Speaker G (unidentified): couple of ordinances that are old and out of date and have huge impact related to land use, and without going into specifics, there are two specific things that I'm interested in, but we can, I don't know if a workshop is the right way to go about it, but the solid waste ordinance is really in rough shape and it doesn't include all the updates with this cart to curb and the City Council committed to forming a subcommittee 18 months ago to study the trash ordinance and it never happened, and so I Don't know if we as the Planning Board could pick that up and evaluate that. Yeah, will you find out if [1:33:35] Speaker F (unidentified): that ordinance is in our purview at all? It's in the code of ordinances, which does not come before you when there are edits. It's purely under the purview of the council. The zoning and land use code is what you make, you know, recommendations to the [1:33:51] Speaker G (unidentified): council on. So I would argue that trash storage and pickup and plan is a land use. So what I'm [1:34:00] Shanna Cox: what I'm going to help you help you with, yeah, and I want to make sure we get to your first question that was not about specifics and also your specifics. I would encourage you to write and or use public comment to city council, okay, to request that it's an area that we could collaborate on or and then separately if you, if one of the changes that you that you are interested in requesting, if we already know the answer to that is kind of like it's not your purview and one of the changes you're suggesting is that we look at the ability for it to fall under the purview either in collaboration with or then I would name that request as such and share it with our staff as well as the planning board so that we could have a discussion item on it. But I would also initiate it with public comment separately, okay, so public comment and then a memo to staff [1:34:45] Speaker G (unidentified): as a resident or as a member of the planning board? No, I think I think it would be appropriate [1:34:50] Shanna Cox: for you to wear both of your hats okay yeah and i would just offer i don't know that i'm presupposing that there is a process and that 's it that's just the best thing i can think [1:34:59] Speaker J (unidentified): of in uncharted territory, okay. Yeah, Alex, I did ask about this many moons ago. I think this was when David Hedegar was still head of planning code enforcement and it was around the food truck ordinance because we had just talked about this for the downtown area and it sounded to me when I talked to David about it that any citizen group or individual could, you know, take a stab at rewriting it and just submit it to staff and then it would sort of initiate the process or submit it to a counselor and that would help initiate the process. I don't know if that was like an oversimplification, you know, this was end of a meeting two years ago with a different person, but I don't know, Shelly, if you have any insight there, if you know private citizens whether or not we serve on the Planning Board could just rewrite code as a suggestion and submit it and, you know, save staff time and save counselors time. Yeah, I certainly think [1:35:59] Speaker F (unidentified): You can, I'm not reversed in what the procedure is for that part of the ordinance for updates. I know with the zoning and land use code it's initiated by a petition or the planning board or the council. I'm not sure exactly the formal initiation process for the other, probably it's the council, but there may be other methods too. Could you expand on for the land use code? [1:36:27] Speaker J (unidentified): Because I've had people come to me and ask me about it, initiation by petition is that like [1:36:34] Speaker F (unidentified): collect a certain number of signatures? It is, and we've had a, that's happened a number of times. What normally happens with that is they submit an application, typically it's a contract zone, but we've had it for just a straight rezone of a parcel before as well, and so they would submit what they want for the rezoning with the petition, with the signatures, to planning staff. We have the signatures verified by the clerk's office and then bring that to you. We usually with a public hearing scheduled so since the initiation happened with the petition, you can hold the public hearing in the same night that you would make a recommendation to counsel. Were you to initiate, we have to do it as a two-step, one night to initiate, another night for a public hearing, or if the council initiates, then we could hold a public hearing directly. So somewhere in there, and I'm hesitant [1:37:30] Shanna Cox: to ask more questions without i'm a visual person i don't think i'm the only one on the board and so i'd love to see the language as the firm request though i appreciate the curiosity but it can you provide us with and give us another business item on an upcoming agenda item for you to bring forward with a memo the process as known in the language or examples and specifically for this one just in the way that you've answered the question so far if there is trying to be proactive so we don't like prolong the process of understanding the process, which was a follow-up item from our last meeting anyway. It would be very helpful if you provided any kind of overview of the areas of purview outside of the language that you use, the definitions that are being referenced in the, it's tough sometimes when we get like this much of an expert excerpt and it is naming, you know, concurrent with this section and we don't get the book, we don't have all of the sections, and so if it's referencing other areas or for example if it says the Planning Board only initiates yada and all others need to happen, can we, can we get a slice of what the all others listed outside of Planning Board purview looks like so we can understand like what's on our list and what's not, and frankly if there's something that's just not listed would be really helpful. Does that make sense? I think so, the zoning and [1:38:59] Speaker F (unidentified): land use code is Appendix A, so that's articles, you know, 1 through 17, and that's what I will, can provide you a memo with the references where it states how that code is to be amended and what that process is. All of the other chapters are typically the purview of counsel and the clerk's office staffs and works with them on the changes. Occasionally we work with them on changes when it's similar, like related to something that we are changing, so if we're making a change that affects that, then we often are the staff that brings the two forward even though the other is under the purview of the clerk. I can certainly have another part of the memo that talks about what the process is for amending the code of ordinances. I think that I find out what the answer is to that question because I don't know what kind of a process is followed, whether it's a clear black [1:40:02] Shanna Cox: and white process or whether, I think we're asking you to find that out. Okay, and I think that you could ask Kathy to send that over from her office. You shouldn't have to do a ton of legwork, and I think, I think the outline, the table of contents would satisfy the second half of my request. So if we get Appendix A and Appendix A is zoning and land use code and Appendix B is Purple Skies and Appendix C is Green Grasses, you could simply give us the names of the other appendices without providing us all that information or even what's in there, but that might be enough for us to have the context of what's within our purview and [1:40:35] Speaker F (unidentified): what's not. Okay, so table contents of the whole code that says this part is the council makes decisions without a recommendation from Planning Board and this part requires a recommendation from Planning Board, just to make that clear. [1:40:48] Shanna Cox: Okay, and here's the two process that, yeah, great, including like the number of signatures and submittal process, like that stuff. Okay, yeah, thanks. Before we go on to anything else that you might have in, that was there anything else on the request that we [1:41:01] Speaker F (unidentified): Just made it. Feels like, Shelly, you've got it. Well, there's a lot of notes here that say listen to the recording. Okay, so we will fill in the blanks. All right, will you send a clarifying email [1:41:14] Shanna Cox: to the board if you have questions, so that we can support kind of good use of time? Sure. Yeah, Amy. [1:41:20] Speaker G (unidentified): Awesome. And again, to simplify that request is, how does an ordinary person help get ordinances has changed? That, yeah, are problematic. And then the other thing I'd love to look at is the property disposition policy, because we had a lot of conversation about that. But if you look back at the policy, the very first step is the city administrator determines that a property is surplus. Like, one person makes that determination, and then that kicks off the rest of the process, which does not seem like a good policy to me. Thanks. Sure. Anything else from [1:41:52] Shanna Cox: anyone on process related to suggesting or requesting updates to ordinances and policies? [1:41:58] Speaker F (unidentified): Can I ask a clarifying question about that, Amy? So are you asking a question of how does the property disposition policy get changed? Or okay, I [1:42:11] Shanna Cox: think you will have answered that if you answer [1:42:12] Speaker F (unidentified): the first part of what we've asked, possibly. But that's a policy instead of the code of ordinances, so it's probably a different answer. I'll [1:42:22] Shanna Cox: get an answer. No, I'm, I'm sorry, the process to suggest and request updates to ordinances and policies, everything that I've said so far is, I guess, for both. Gotcha, ordinances and policies. And I appreciate the opportunity to clarify that assumption, but I was requesting if there are very clearly different paths and different buckets of purview for ordinance versus policy, that's part of what I was getting at with the like and everything else. We're actually kind of curious about that. Okay. And I don't expect you to be able to detail everything else, Shelly, but the ability to kind of put it in some buckets [1:42:58] Speaker J (unidentified): would be great. Do we anticipate this being ready for our next meeting that's in two weeks? So probably not, probably not. So maybe the meeting after that. Yeah, okay. I just realized I had some people ask me this exact question a couple weeks ago, and I was sort of like, I'll get back to you, [1:43:15] Speaker F (unidentified): and now I can get back. Yeah, I mean, we'll see what we can do, but we'd have to have it prepared. I mean, maybe if we don't have it in the packet, but it just gets emailed out, you know, or handed out at the meeting, and we might be able to do that, but it's still basically a week away, I think, a fair bit of a request. [1:43:32] Shanna Cox: That we're asking would be well suited to giving us a digital answer, like your memo might be, but you in a good, in a good real world, like I'm happy to bring my laptop in, but in the real version of what we're asking, it should link to those sections. We should be able to go find, like, I think that will kill ourselves trying to get this paragraph from page 38 and this paragraph and not being able to. It's the absence of not being able to place it in context, which is usually my undoing, and so please do use your best digital self and the response to that, and that does mean please email it to us as well as sending the lovely people around to our houses so that we can actually do the discovery work by clicking. Amy, was there anything else [1:44:24] Speaker G (unidentified): No, but a clear request [1:44:30] Shanna Cox: specifically to provide the policy around the dispositions that was made might have checked the recording next to it, Shelley, but that was one of the pieces we grabbed. Great, anything else from anyone else on the board? I'm gonna move us to agenda item 7, reading of the minutes. We're looking for a motion to adopt the July 27th, 2026 draft minutes as suggested. So I make a motion that we accept them with the amendments that were proposed by Amy, Michael, and myself. Thank you. Second. Great, any discussion? All right, call the rule. Excuse me, Amy Smith? Yes, lucy bisson yes shanna cox yes alexander pine yes excuse me heidi vertels yes and darren glant it yes okay looking for a motion to adjourn. So moves. Did you catch that? Yes, [1:45:37] Speaker F (unidentified): that was by Heidi. Second. Okay, great, all in favor, simple eyes will cut [1:45:46] Shanna Cox: it. I okay, thanks, we'll save you there. Okay, thank you, thank you. All righty, [1:45:54] Speaker G (unidentified): oh, I am not going to be here on the 24th. Okay, thank you, it's my birthday, so I expect cake [1:46:01] Shanna Cox: that day. Okay, nice. If you are both not here, does the porn change? Do we have a vacancy? [1:46:10] Speaker F (unidentified): No, yeah, are there things for the agenda on the time for? There is one item. Yes, we [1:46:18] Speaker G (unidentified): would need water five. Do we have to beat on the 24th? Can the one agenda item [1:46:30] Shanna Cox: wait? You know, you're missing two people, one other person, there's no, somebody is [1:46:38] Speaker F (unidentified): sick I can check with the applicant so at this point we're saying that we know one person can do to can't make it okay so like tonight not working here on [1:46:53] Speaker D (unidentified): my birthday? Yeah, but I will be here if I need to, I'll be okay, I will, we'll get in [1:47:00] Shanna Cox: touch with you about that. Yeah, okay, yeah, thanks, Shelly, thank you. Have someone active? Yeah, thank you. Did you gavel out? Yeah, I don't think I've ever done that, I gave a lot of recess. It is, I'm waiting for