Bangor Historic Preservation Commission approves Cedar Street window plan

[0:48] Nathaniel King: Good evening and welcome to the September 24th, 2026 meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission. My name is Nathaniel King, I'm the chair of the commission. From the commission members presence are starting with Peter Kiebler. Peter Kiebler. [1:07] Matthew R. Weitkamp: Matthew White camp, alternate member. [1:11] Nathaniel King: Commissioner Sacks, Katie Ko, and from the city of Bangor we have [1:19] Matt Altiero (planning analyst): on you call that planning officer Matt [1:25] Nathaniel King: Altiero, planning analyst, and then our consultant Mike [1:29] Peter Keebler: Pullen, architect, so [1:33] Nathaniel King: the Historic Preservation Commission has two roles. First, we serve as the Bangor Center Revitalization Area Design Review Committee, designated under section 71 one of the city ordinances, which covers review issues in the downtown and waterfront areas of Bangor. Second, the commission has several responsibilities in the historic preservation section of city ordinances, section 148, including issuing certificates of appropriateness for construction of or changes to buildings within the city's designated historic districts. We may need to review a proposal under both design review and historic preservation criteria. So, if all regular members are in attendance, our associate members participate in the meeting, but do not vote on motions. In the event that any regular members are absent, associate members will vote such that there is a majority vote to pass any motion, and historic preservation applications must receive a majority vote for certificate appropriateness to be issued, and the same for design reviews. views. So the order of the meeting will be as follows. I will call the applicants in order they appear on the agenda. When I call you, when I call your project, I'll ask you to present your application to the podium. Please make sure the mic is on, and when question, and then once you have made your presentation, I will first ask for the consultant's report, second for questions from commission members, and third for questions or comments from the audience. When questions are completed, the commission will have a discussion of the proposal and the standards of review under which the proposal is being considered. When discussion is complete, the commission will take action on the proposal to approve, deny, or otherwise handle it. When a proposal is being evaluated under both design review and historic preservation criteria, the commission will make separate motions related to each type of review. I will then ask for commission member votes. So some final points for applicants before the HPC. If it looks as If your project will not be approved, you may choose to withdraw your application, amend your application, and then resubmit your application for a future meeting, saving the application fee. If you disagree with the decision of the commission regarding your project, you have the right to appeal the decision to the board of appeals. And all projects need to be started within six months and completed within a year. Otherwise, a new application to the commission will need to be made and approved prior to starting your project. I believe that's changed, hasn't it? It is not six months. It is a year. A year and two years. Excuse me. All projects need to be started within a year and completed within two years. So before we begin, are there any additions to the agenda for consideration? No? Okay. Then I will pull up my agenda and we will see what we have on there. Okay, so the first old business is approval of the meeting minutes from September 10th, 2026. [4:40] Katie Coe: If there are no changes, I'll entertain a motion. I'd like to make a motion to approve the meeting minutes from September 10th, 2026. They look great. My name's in there too much. Is there a second? [4:54] Speaker F (unidentified): Second. Yes. Abstain. I wasn't there. I have to say I was refused. Okay. And I wasn't there either. And [5:04] Nathaniel King: I vote yes. So they pass. Okay. And then the next item, bull business, is adoption of findings and [5:11] Katie Coe: decision for 217 York Street. I would like to make a motion to adopt the findings and decision for 217 with York Street. Second? [5:22] Speaker F (unidentified): Yes. Abstain. I vote even though I was there. I reviewed the [5:35] Nathaniel King: Yeah. Okay. Then I abstain as well. And then I vote yes. So I believe it passes and we will adopt the decision for 217 York Street. So move on to the next item, which is new business. We have a The certificate of appropriateness for 225 Cedar Street, the applicant is One Stop Home Repairs. If you would like to approach. [6:02] Katie Coe: Silly question as he approaches, I have hired this wonderful business before. Does that mean that I have to recuse myself? [6:11] Matt Altiero (planning analyst): You've hired them before. I mean the past doesn't really have relevance. It's, you know, if you're looking at hiring maybe. Awesome. [6:25] Applicant (One-Stop Home Repair): For One-Stop Home Repair, I'm doing this applicant for the window project at 225 Cedar Street. I'm not sure what else I've presented some photos packet to the city for. We're changing out 14 windows. There's photos in there of the property. There's a Sanford Hill line, which is from Matthews Brothers, is the window that seems to be the most appropriate historic window to change out that would be energy efficient. And on the, I call it the bump out, there's a family room downstairs and a bedroom upstairs, and the windows are double hung, six over six. There is a thinner mutton option that can goes more with the era of the of the windows, so I think that's looks good. The windows that are there presently, the ones upstairs are, I would guess, maybe a 70s version. I'm not sure the when that bump out was put on, whether it was originally there with the structure or not, but I think that these windows of the black to go with the others would be in keeping of the historic look of the house better than they are now, actually. So have any questions for me? Or I don't, this is, I think my first time here for applicant for this, so I'm not, I have to answer what I'm here to answer, any questions, whatever I can do, so we'll go ahead and proceed [8:37] Peter Keebler: with consultant support. Thank you Howard, complete application, more than complete. We probably didn't need all of the copies of every window that they make in their line, but I had a couple of points and you responded to those, but so the commission can hear it, if I could go back through those with you. Absolutely, and I know at the pre-application we had with you indicated that the windows would be custom-made and aluminum clad. This application proposes vinyl [9:06] Applicant (One-Stop Home Repair): windows. Can you explain what the change was? Or I was, could be my remiss and knowing, looking deeper into the window book itself, I was under the understanding that they were, I'd seen some line of theirs that was aluminum Klein, and I assumed that, which is not a good thing to do, so [9:30] Peter Keebler: but you're going with the Sanford Hills which is all vinyl, correct? Yeah. Next point I had was, will the replacement windows maintain the glass width and height of the existing windows, and will there need to be any infill materials around the windows if there's, if they were stock windows [9:49] Applicant (One-Stop Home Repair): First part was, will the glass remain the same size? Yes, that's the reason to do new construction, that when you do the stops or the replacement kind, the frame of the window and everything goes in the existing opening, so the size can shrink in that case, but this will be the same size. MR. [10:18] Peter Keebler: I think Howard actually provided some dimensional information in the packet, so it seemed to satisfy that question. The existing six over six mountains featured narrow putty glazed versions. These will be SDLs, that means simulated divided lights, and will they match those details? I think you've already said you're going to go with the narrowest mountain that they have, a half inch. Okay, and the original windows were painted black, and you said that the new windows will match that color black. Yes. Okay. And why is the exterior [10:56] Applicant (One-Stop Home Repair): trim being replaced? Because they are new construction windows, so they have a nailing fin on them, so you have to remove the trim. Yeah, right, you get that to install. [11:08] Peter Keebler: The other thing I wanted to just mention was in the pre-application, I'm just holding up, I think this was the best photo you provided, which looks like this. Because you can see all the windows, I think, that are the total of 14 in the bump out or the sunroom, so-called. There was also a window up here, this window, which was changed out without review of the commission, which we were going to include in this application. Okay. So will that make it 15 windows? Yes. Yes, so the commission understands there's a window upstairs that was replaced. He has a close-up shot of that in the packet. It's all black, that's six over six mountains, yeah, and that will use the same [11:53] Matthew R. Weitkamp: simulated divided lights. Yes, it has to say it's already been, it's already installed, it's installed. [12:01] Peter Keebler: Oh, it was there previously, so we thought we'd include it just to make a clean application. So there's none on the front. When I count 14 on that photograph that you gave us, it looks like there's the driveway side, then there's the back side. That totals 14. So is there no windows replaced on the street side, on Cedar Street side? [12:25] Applicant (One-Stop Home Repair): That view that you see, the one, that's the street end. [12:31] Peter Keebler: Oh, that is the street end. Okay. [12:33] Applicant (One-Stop Home Repair): Okay, there would be, and there isn't any windows on that. There's not on the backside, just a door on the 2nd floor and a door on the 1st. Perfect. Thank you. [12:43] Peter Keebler: Oh, my God, unless you guys have more questions. [12:48] Nathaniel King: Okay, and now I'll kick it over to questions from the commission. [12:52] Matthew R. Weitkamp: I have a couple of questions. Is the trim that you're moving to install the window is going to be replacing behind Jeff, details of the trim is going to match. [13:02] Applicant (One-Stop Home Repair): The one question is the sill, which is part that slopes on the outside to that aspect. They do have in the book, they do have incorporated sills that would go with those windows, but I'm not sure. So answer your question, yes, it will be in like kind. I'm not sure if it's going to be wood in order to make that sill that slope sill or whether we're going to use the vinyl but you can see in the bottom picture it's a long continuous sill that goes all the way across so I'm thinking that we're going to have to do a wood sill attached to that [13:50] Matthew R. Weitkamp: So it looks the same and the height of the sill will be the same yes correct yeah I think that's important design element thank [14:04] Speaker F (unidentified): You welcome [14:10] Speaker H (unidentified): There was a mention about storm windows [14:13] Applicant (One-Stop Home Repair): Right now the windows have combination storm windows applied to the outside those will not be put back they're more of a add-on 60s 70s 80s that stuff so it would but the reason I did include that picture of the window that was already done, they'll look like that, which is just a screen. There's no, because they're insulated glass and that the storm window's not needed. [14:46] Speaker H (unidentified): And so in essence, the windows will be easier to see because they don't have to add on storms and will look more like. [14:54] Applicant (One-Stop Home Repair): I would say, yes, yeah. Any additional questions? [15:03] Nathaniel King: Okay are there any questions or anyone in the audience online or in person no okay that will close the public comment and we will move the commission discussion [15:17] Speaker F (unidentified): With this I [15:22] Speaker H (unidentified): Really have a lot to say and then I think it looks very appropriate they've done a good job with this I think your presentation stuff you brought us was excellent and so I [15:32] Speaker F (unidentified): Don't have any particular concerns or things to discuss yeah I think of that sentiment okay [15:38] Matthew R. Weitkamp: Okay. Yeah, I think it was a complete application and if we, if the silver place any time with. Same thickness and the trim is replaced the window displacing time and I have no objections. [15:58] Nathaniel King: Same. Okay. Well, I don't have any issues with it. I think it's appropriate. And I think if the window sills are being replaced in kind, then I think that's. Easily done and you confirmed that is something you're going to be doing replacing in kind if possible or you're doing interesting okay have to look [16:19] Applicant (One-Stop Home Repair): Again at the photo but I believe the second floor and the first floor have that sill on you know there are newer window on the second floor that all the windows are I would think original were downstairs in that sunroom but the upstairs ones, but they still have that sill. [16:45] Nathaniel King: Okay. Well, then there are no further comments for discussion or no, your last green, not green. Okay. And let's find the form so we can make some motions. Okay. So I would entertain a motion to mark the procedural background as complete for this application. [17:15] Speaker H (unidentified): Move that we mark the procedural background [17:17] Nathaniel King: background is complete seconded yes and I also vote yes procedural background is complete the next motion covering section four applicable provisions and findings part one [17:36] Speaker H (unidentified): I'd like to move that the cushion finds that based on Exits 1-10-2 the application satisfied by historic preservation code 148-9a requiring that any alteration of the historic structure will preserve or enhance its historical and architectural character I second [17:58] Nathaniel King: yes and I also vote yes I would I suggested before we move on that we move that the [18:08] Speaker H (unidentified): The yellow highlighted sections are not applicable to this application and that they'd be removed from the document. If you want to make that motion, I move that the yellow highlighted paragraphs in our document be removed. do i need to detail which they are no okay not included with us as they are not relevant [18:39] Nathaniel King: i second and that is for second that is for parts two and part three yes okay yes and yes okay so now we can move into the motions for part two starting with part two, number two. [19:00] Speaker H (unidentified): Part two, number two, I move that the commission finds that based on Exhibits 1-2 of the application, satisfies the historic preservation code 148-9B2B requirement that rehabilitation work does not destroy the distinguishing qualities or character of the structure and its environment. I second. [19:21] Speaker F (unidentified): Peter? Yes. Yes. Yes. [19:25] Nathaniel King: Yes. And I also put yes. [19:28] Katie Coe: We're just going to be talking for a little bit. You can sit down. [19:31] Nathaniel King: Okay. Oh, yeah. Thank you for catching that. I've got my thing on the screen here, so I'm not paying attention. [19:38] Speaker H (unidentified): I move that Commission finds that based on exhibit 1-2, the application satisfies SOAR preservation code 148-9B2C, requiring that wall repair is preferable to replacement in the invent that replace the modes of curate well curate that's an interesting word architectural features is necessary the feature being replaced in design color texture and other visual qualities and they're economically and technically feasible [20:05] Speaker F (unidentified): materials i second yes and i also vote yes [20:14] Speaker H (unidentified): I move that the Commission finds that, based on Exhibit 1-2, the application satisfies the Stoic Printer Agent Code 148-2 requiring that distinctive stylistic features or examples of skilled craftsmanship which characterize the Stoic is not [20:32] Speaker F (unidentified): banished or destroyed wherever possible. I second. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. [20:40] Matthew R. Weitkamp: I also vote yes. [20:41] Speaker H (unidentified): I move that equation 5 is based on Zilph 1-2. The application satisfies the historic preservation code 148-2b-2i, requiring that wherever possible, all alterations to structures shall be done in such a manner that if they were to be removed in the future, the essential form and integrity of the original structure would be unpaired. [21:02] Nathaniel King: And you do mean 148-9b- [21:04] Speaker H (unidentified): Did I say 15b? Sorry. I'm not reading it correctly. [21:08] Matthew R. Weitkamp: Then I second with 9b. [21:13] Katie Coe: yes [21:17] Nathaniel King: yes and also oh yes all right we're at the decision [21:23] Speaker H (unidentified): i move the commission finds that based on findings in parts 1-2 section 4 of this document the project meets the requirements for a certificate of appropriateness and therefore grants a [21:35] Speaker F (unidentified): certificate of appropriateness for the proposed projects i'll second this time yes [21:42] Nathaniel King: yes and i also vote yes and it passes five zero thank you 're welcome you're welcome and anya did you get the typo in the form i'm not sorry there in page two in part two number three you should be deteriorated and not deteriorate sorry i've never caught that [22:11] Speaker I (unidentified): here's the first one about it sorry everything we've done so far has to be completely redone [22:15] Nathaniel King: oh dude oh don't put that evil out there ricky bobby don't even joke even joke okay thank you very much for coming tonight appreciate it yeah take care so that concludes the new business and so now we can move on to the other business which is open discussion and this is a space to talk about any subjects related to historic preservation generally in the city that the commission might want to discuss was [22:51] Matt Altiero (planning analyst): there any intent for this time when we when the original special meetings were scheduled it was to provide extra time for discussion if members wanted to talk [23:02] Speaker H (unidentified): about anything we have any open things we've discussed in the past that are not yet resolved [23:07] Nathaniel King: i don't think so like the really cool provisions for like archaeology in the city [23:13] Matt Altiero (planning analyst): i'll be working on those hopefully this winter but yeah got my hands full with the land development code right now [23:22] Matthew R. Weitkamp: oh is there any more talk of artifacts doing more surveys of residential areas or parks or over by the old air force base which we discussed has that gotten anywhere we would [23:38] Matt Altiero (planning analyst): Need more funding for that. We've paid for those through grants through the past several years. I don't think we had the capacity to apply for a grant this past spring. Certainly it's something if another grant comes up we can discuss doing that, but they're [23:57] Matthew R. Weitkamp: I thought maybe some more of the parks. I think we haven't surveyed in Little City yet. I think that would be a good place to do it. Maybe by the airport space because I think that's kind of an overlooked area. And what Nate's brought up is the archaeology I think is a really important area where we explore [24:23] Nathaniel King: Everyone's backyards no shovel tests everyone's [24:29] Matt Altiero (planning analyst): Backyards yeah I think with archaeology Nate has brought up some good suggestions to me about there is a database wasn't there of archaeological sites that you mentioned I [24:40] Nathaniel King: Thought a database there is a state database but you have to have credentials to access that database. It's not just open to the general public because it's against state law to share archeological site information without people that don't have a dedicated access to it, or a reason or a right to access it, like landowners or professional archeologists. I think what it was we did talk about, I think we, I know we had talked about some of Portland's ordinances with archeology, and then just concerns about metal detecting on city-owned and state property. [25:19] Matt Altiero (planning analyst): So did you have in mind designating archaeological sites, or were you more so you were looking at ordinance language? [25:27] Nathaniel King: That was more when people were digging more ordinance language for development for development to consider archaeological sites. Because right now if you when you look at the code it is primarily above ground resources it's all above ground resources and you know a lot of the pre-contact sites in the city of Bangor proper are deeply buried but for example looking at downtown and building the new Y you know there was a lot of ground disturbance that took place there and I think it's just important that as we look at how the city develops and is growing you know we have a lot of things that we need to take into account we Have Native American sites at water confluences and such. We have historic era sites throughout Bangor, and as the years march on, you know, this date, 1976, call qualifies as historic, 50-year, 50-year rule. So we don't want to be so locked in on our gorgeous above-ground resources we ignore what's under our feet. It's just making sure the city kind of has a plan to deal with those and a way to work with, you know, construction, developers, whatever, to everyone kind of work together. Usually it can be something just as simple as having a plan for the fines, find something. These are the things you need to stop work for. These are not. Work with maybe the historic society or somewhere that could be the repository for some of these artifacts. Things can go into the state museum. That all gets worked out. But Portland did a good job at addressing that and kind of their city code, and I'm a big fan of stealing things from other towns, as I've said on the record repeatedly. Yeah, definitely, if we can [27:09] Matt Altiero (planning analyst): take some of that language, that would be helpful. So it wouldn't be, I guess, recommended to designate [27:16] Nathaniel King: specific archaeological sites? Or no, just because when you designate somewhere as a known archaeological site, you opened up the potential for looting, and like, I know just driving around town, I've seen a few hobbyist metal detector folks poking and prodding on some places that are city property and private property. As long as they have landowner permission, they're allowed to do things like that. But you know, I think the city could take a look at that, come up with something that's beneficial for the metal detectorists and for the city. You know, a good example is South Carolina has a, it's called a hobby diver program, where you can go out after some training through the state and dive on these shipwrecks and collect things from the shipwrecks, but the state gets first round of refusal. So if you find a bunch of cool things, the state looks at that and says, we want these things, the rest of this is yours to do with what you please. City could probably consider something like that for metal detecting, where if you're metal detecting on city property, you report what you find. The historic society maybe gets first right to say yes or no, you know, to keeping something, and then [28:25] Matthew R. Weitkamp: you know, you probably want to call the tribal community as well. You would, it's [28:37] Nathaniel King: also about it's it's a tricky spot so there's there are native american sites in bangalore proper but a lot of what you're going to find right now is going to be historic period and you're not going to get to the native american sites in bangalore unless you're out there with a backhoe like a literal backhoe or excavator but the city could definitely add language about native american objects and the tribes because the tribes all have their designated repository and get the facility out far Harder than they use, so that's something the city won't take into account of someone finding Native American. [29:12] Matthew R. Weitkamp: American objects and such, but yeah, I brought up since you were talking about the Y and you know deeper ground disturbance, I think it's important to have. Yes, and that's where, like I said, like we. [29:23] Nathaniel King: Work with these developers and say like, here's the kind of things we want you to stop work if you come across and contact the city, you know, here's pictures, what we call funerary objects, yeah, that dark greasy dirt that's common with burials, you know, these sorts of objects you need to immediately, human remains, things like that, you immediately stop work and here's the process to go through, because right now I don't believe the city has anything in their code about it. I mean, assuming you don't find. Anything, you know, short of human remains, throw it in the trash. [29:54] Katie Coe: Pile, I'd also like to note that if we're doing that for the metal detectorist, we should include the magnet fishing folks, although the roles and waterways might be different, so within waterways. [30:05] Nathaniel King: Like landowners, property owners own to the low water lines now thanks to the main supreme court, so this, if it's city property, I believe the city ownership would extend to the low water line and then state ownership begins. If it's on private, it's private property, so if you have a house at the edge of the river, your property line extends that low water line, so if it's within your private property, again, you can sort of do what you want. [30:34] Katie Coe: I've seen folks doing it off the Conduskeg bridges, then that's, yeah, that's different. [30:40] Nathaniel King: Especially, and this is the thing for city of Bangor, the note when you're doing the Conduskeg bridges, there are no one Penobscot river expedition shipwrecks there, and the city should make sure people are aware that those wrecks are property of the United States Navy, and any objects that are removed from those shipwrecks could subject you to federal penalties for disturbing those. [30:59] Katie Coe: Federal, those federally protected wrecks, not even one cannon, not just one of Paul Revere's [31:05] Nathaniel King: cannons, nope, all of those wrecks are property of the Navy, because the Navy does not relinquish title to any watercraft or sunken craft, up to and including aircraft, track vehicles, [31:19] Katie Coe: anything without an explicit rule, and there's submarines, the antique one, sorry, I was just remembering the ones that are like early submarines that they, yeah, but no, these are all [31:33] Nathaniel King: sorts of things that the city, you know, well meaning, but it doesn't make sure they don't, especially where you have federally protected shipwrecks right there off of, you know, you can see there is the general area from Sea Dog, you know, both City of Bangor and City of Brewer need to make sure there's some communication about the protection of those, you know, especially as it's not such a big deal up here, but belliconing is kind of a popular pastime line from, especially [32:02] Katie Coe: Civil War relics, so it would be really cool to add signage of those on our waterfront, I was just [32:08] Matt Altiero (planning analyst): about to say that, well, yeah, funnily enough, that was something I was going to bring up to our Parks and Rec director, and I found out actually that he's been working with Downtown Banger Partnership to add signage, she wants to do like more of the history of the waterfront and the river, and I mentioned Nate, the Revolutionary War shipwrecks that we covered in Jane's walk [32:28] Nathaniel King: and highlighting those as well, and coincidentally my friend from grad school is works for Navy History Heritage Command, and they're in the water archaeology branch, so it'd be no problem to [32:38] Matthew R. Weitkamp: convince him to write something up, yeah, I think if you are doing signage, that language that Nate said about removing items should be on that sign, yeah, I was just thinking that, like, if we're [32:50] Nathaniel King: going to highlight that there's ship prices, and the same thing goes, like, even diving on them and things like that, like, I don't believe that they're where you can readily dive on them, trying to remember where the unrejected report kind of said they were at, but where there's a john boat and the, will somebody's going to find a way, and I think it's any of that signage does need to talk about the how they're protected, the penalties, and also that, like, you know, you shouldn't die, you should treat these Things with respect, sometimes wrecks like these are technically burials. If anybody dies died on the wreck, your remains could still be there. Well, these are all important things to consider with, especially submerged wreck sites. But the magnet fishing is a good point, and also the other part is cannonballs can still explode even if they're a couple hundred years old. They very much can still explode. So if you know Jim Bob and Lurline haul up some cannonball on, you know, the Josh Chamberlain Bridge there is that they are handling unexploded ordnance. They could potentially, you know, could, you know, go boom. There's a not zero number of people that die every year, you know, playing the Civil War ordinance or [34:01] Katie Coe: Revolutionary War ordinance. And also dangerously, that is, I mean not close, but relatively close to the capped portion of the river to keep the deposits from the old business that was on the railroad side, that there's capped deposits of what is it, lead not outlet. Mercury. [34:27] Nathaniel King: Yeah. Yeah, so there's all of those fun things. One of many reasons. [34:39] Matthew R. Weitkamp: I'm kind of going back to the signage. We talked to some at one of the previous meetings about putting signage up and like the historic, the historic, like the designated bank or historic landmarks. And I still I still think that's a really nice idea. So if grant funding or parks and wreck money or whatever kind of silo you can pull from, I think that would be a nice way to engage people as they just walk around neighborhoods. Yeah, for sure, I've seen some [35:05] Matt Altiero (planning analyst): good examples recently when I went to Denver for a planning conference. They had really nice [35:10] Matthew R. Weitkamp: advantage. So it's on my list. Great ideas. We've also got the bonus of having the public history [35:17] Nathaniel King: kids up at UMaine, and we can help out with developing some of this stuff too as block [35:22] Matthew R. Weitkamp: projects and things like that. Is that, I think so. Yeah, I was actually downtown the other day and I saw all Liam's signs and I they were, they're just, they're so nice. Yeah, it's a nice improvement down [35:36] Matt Altiero (planning analyst): there. Somebody reading one on today, so thanks Liam. Yeah, well [35:46] Peter Keebler: one other thing I, don't know, we had a couple years ago and talked to the city engineer about brick sidewalks like Broadway. There is a very important early brick construction benefit greatly from a decent [36:09] Matthew R. Weitkamp: it would be a nice delineation. Yeah, those areas not long, but it's almost from State Street up to [36:21] Peter Keebler: And I sent examples of it to Jeff, and he's got, he's got so many things going on. [36:32] Matthew R. Weitkamp: Try again. I do I think that is a nice I like that the delineation of space, you know, it can catch someone's eye and then engage. [36:43] Peter Keebler: I think it's a nice idea, Mike, the way they do them in Portland, too, which is different than up here, where they just put me down on sand is they actually do a bituminous walk that's dropped about 6 inches, and they put in a 2 inch sand layer on top, and then they put the papers much more stable. It doesn't come apart. [37:07] Katie Coe: I was gonna say my opinion of the brick. Sidewalks has drastically changed since I moved my mom to town and she's using her [37:15] Peter Keebler: walker on these sidewalks and dangerous up and down yes yeah they're broken and some are missing completely what can go right in there anyway yeah so I love that idea with [37:29] Katie Coe: that it did additional work to make it so that it will last longer and be safer longer. [37:35] Matthew R. Weitkamp: I think that's a clever solution. [37:42] Nathaniel King: Another thing to think about with the signage too, I don't know if you've ever tried to engage some of these organizations, but Eagle Scout projects, things like that, it's always a good signage or something like that, or doing something, historic reservation could be a good opportunity for a scout, or We have anything related to civil war sites anything like that getting the veteran community might be good for that too. Upkeep like that. I know when I worked at the Aviation Museum down Pensacola, a lot of like the aircraft and in Brunswick, were taken care of by veterans from that base or from those specific squadrons or those type of squadrons that still live in the area. So something to think about. [38:33] Speaker H (unidentified): I know something to think about. I like that idea of looking at other resources, et cetera. If we were to have different groups, Eagle Scout projects or otherwise, doing signage, it would be good to define a sign format, if you will. That would be recognizable as an historic, you know, plaque or sign so that, you know, going around the city would be consistent. And you saw one and, you know, you'd know what it was by just sort of seeing it and say, oh, my gosh, that's a historic, you know, sign. I want to take a look at that. There'd be some way to have a coordination of working on different possible sources for doing this work. [39:15] Matthew R. Weitkamp: But with a standardized form. [39:16] Speaker H (unidentified): Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, [39:21] Matt Altiero (planning analyst): when I was initially thinking about signage for the district side. You see them a lot like the in a lot of historic districts like the metal signs. You know I'm talking about that format. [39:35] Matthew R. Weitkamp: Yeah, I think that's a, I think that those are very nice and they're not intrusive, but noticeable still, and being similar to what other places use. [39:44] Speaker H (unidentified): I mean, it gains even more of that consistency, if you will. [39:49] Katie Coe: Do you mean like the bronze plaques? Yeah. Yeah. [39:53] Speaker H (unidentified): Yeah, walk around Alexandria, Virginia, all over. [39:56] Peter Keebler: Those are castings. Oh, they're castings, yeah. [40:00] Speaker H (unidentified): Bronze. Really nice. [40:03] Nathaniel King: Bronze is going to handle the winters up here. I guess that's a truth. [40:06] Katie Coe: I mean, we could get the archaeology students to talk to the art students. Students, they can do bronze pours up at the university. I think they would do it as like a project. The sculpture classes are already doing bronze. Well, they used 20 years ago, they used to do bronze pours in the sculpture program. I have some in my house, but not mine, but yeah, so that is something that they could do, have the capacity to do bronze melts at a surprisingly low temperature. [40:50] Matt Altiero (planning analyst): Well, any of you are welcome to reach out to the our students. If you don't have time, we can take that on, but I mean, that's certainly within your purview as commissioners. I want to see if maybe they take that on a project, we don't have to wait for grant funding. [41:05] Matthew R. Weitkamp: So on you just like a functional question, if one of the commissioners was to reach out, would you want to be copied on the emails? What's the what's the procedure to do it the right way? I mean, I don't have to be, but it'd probably be good so I'm kept in the loop, you know, probably good to just for sunshine, whatever. [41:25] Nathaniel King: Whatever, exactly, yeah, that way the city's going to move or someone foiled it for whatever reason. [41:30] Matthew R. Weitkamp: Yeah, that's why I asked. Yeah, no. [41:36] Nathaniel King: I'll give me an idea too of reaching out to the archaeology department, they're in Maine, about canon recording the city's canon, getting some recordings out of those paperwork for the city, that way y'all can track and how they're breaking down and degrading, especially that one down by the river, you need some TLC. The one over here is in pretty [41:55] Matthew R. Weitkamp: good shape, the Spanish one, but yeah, that's probably, yeah, I'm trying to think, there's a seal or iron one that's in a really tough shape. I think that's the one, yeah, I think [42:06] Nathaniel King: that's the one down by the river, yeah, then there's another one in front of historic society. [42:11] Matthew R. Weitkamp: Right, that one's also, and is it still there? Do they, I don't think it's there. Oh, I remember it being there. I remember it used to be, it was there, it was just so the other day and I didn't even register, it might be just stored someplace else, we [42:32] Peter Keebler: Just did the whole yard over following the fence when we messed up the yard so bad. [42:48] Matthew R. Weitkamp: Good ideas, yeah, never a lack of historic reservation. [43:04] Nathaniel King: I wonder, let me look up something real quick while I'm thinking about it. I believe Maine Archaeology Month is coming up. I want to say that's in October. Yep, October is Maine Archaeology Month. So that might be something worth highlighting. [43:27] Katie Coe: And you said 76, anything before 76? When was Cary? When did the book Cary come out? That was a little bit before then? [43:36] Nathaniel King: It's a genre that I don't typically read. [43:38] Katie Coe: History, no idea, is Stephen King technically historical property, genetically Star Wars is. [43:45] Nathaniel King: Historic property, amazing, like we have, we have some trainings that we give to some of our staff and in the trainings we have pictures of like sites where they found Star Wars figurines or like there used to be houses and neighborhoods and stuff and it's like yeah these are historic objects because these were like episode four like Skywalker or whatever it's dateable material, edible material, just yeah for 50 years of age so it's typically in historic preservation right it's anything 50 years and greater and what I always tell like my staff is if they run in the buildings, farm buildings, it's like you asked that farmer producer when it was built if they say anytime you know today or two years down the road before they can implement that it's going to be 50 years of age and you need to account for it 's just wow is that there'd be like yes 76 is 50 years ago. Wow. Yeah, I know. The older folk has a little more of a yikes moment. You know, when they start saying 86, this is crazy. I might be sitting there going, oh. [44:46] Matthew R. Weitkamp: I feel like free being. [44:49] Nathaniel King: Yes, the end of this march of time is coming. But yeah, it could be a fun thing to highlight for Maine with Maine Archaeology Month. You might be able to reach out to MHPC. They may have some material or some stuff, posters [45:02] Matt Altiero (planning analyst): or something, is there anything in Bangor that you all think we should highlight for that, I mean [45:08] Nathaniel King: obviously the wrecks because Revolutionary War 250th, yeah, I mean that's never a bad thing to [45:14] Matthew R. Weitkamp: highlight, yeah, I think that would be a nice time, we'll start bringing them maybe a little bit more to public attention, yeah, especially if there's signage on the horizon potentially, that was the, I'm sorry, I distracted him. Okay. [46:00] Matt Altiero (planning analyst): Do you all want to talk about potential dates for your next special meeting? [46:06] Matthew R. Weitkamp: Well, I think that's a good idea, we're doing them quarterly, correct? [46:11] Matt Altiero (planning analyst): Yeah, it is tough with the holidays 3 months from now. [46:15] Matthew R. Weitkamp: We do have a potential date on December seventeenth. So if that works for people, should we push it into the new year and skip the holidays and make it the next year's problem? [46:36] Matt Altiero (planning analyst): We could do January 7th, January 21st, or January 28th. [46:44] Nathaniel King: I mean, I obviously don't have anything on my calendar that far. 21st. We're gonna meet on the 7th. [46:53] Matthew R. Weitkamp: 17th? Yes. So I think then the two months. [46:57] Matt Altiero (planning analyst): I think we're actually meeting the weekend between the week between the 7th and 21st. I've got it on the 4th. Oh, it's the second Thursday, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. [47:07] Nathaniel King: So 21st or 28th. [47:10] Matthew R. Weitkamp: Was there availability of the 28th on you? There's weeks. Yep. [47:19] Katie Coe: 21st would be better for me if that's possible. [47:22] Matthew R. Weitkamp: I'm pretty sure I'll have stuff that far out. [47:25] Katie Coe: Well that's three days before my birthday, so making a wild guess that I might make plans. That is fair. Honestly, I'm thinking better of myself than I should. I probably will not have made plans. [47:39] Speaker I (unidentified): 20 versus, yeah, 21st is fine. Thank you. It's appreciated. Yeah, okay, we can have a pre-birthday [47:48] Nathaniel King: celebration. We just do, we have to have the meeting here, we can just have it at Chili's, right? [47:54] Matthew R. Weitkamp: Bring the little penguin guy that we used to have. You had a little penguin guy. It was like a little, like the owl was an owl. Oh, the owl. Do you remember the owl when we were upstairs in the old chamber? The little thing would keep zooming at random if [48:10] Nathaniel King: you'd like, would like sniffle and lock on you. Yes, zoom right into your face. Yeah, that thing. [48:16] Katie Coe: Figuring out how that worked when first got it was interesting. [48:23] Nathaniel King: Yeah, the little camera thing would sit there for zoom calls or whatever, and if like whoever was talking it would like walk onto them and like they would be on camera, but if you made any noise [48:34] Matthew R. Weitkamp: at all it would just lock onto you, and heaven forbid you had like a cold in winter [48:40] Nathaniel King: or that you were the star attraction. Yeah, it put you front and center, but then it would also, because it wasn't just the one screen, it had like other screens, so you would be on the call and it would like have the person talking and it just to be like bouncing between whoever's making noise on the other camera. That's, yeah, I hate those things. We had them at work, but that's not what we're here to talk about. So I know the folks are ready to go home. There's nothing else. You were creating a [49:08] Katie Coe: historic document to let people know what the owls were. Yeah, it's [49:13] Speaker I (unidentified): the history of the HPC. That's right. I do not think there's any further business. Yeah, so I don't [49:21] Nathaniel King: Have any other business? I will use my one power if anybody else has anything to adjourn this thing.