Lewiston council reviews police and fire budgets, debates take-home cars and fire station timing

[3:32] Carl L. Sheline: Hello, and welcome to our Tuesday evening budget workshop. We're joined here by Director Roy and Chief Conley and Administrator Kainrath, Deputy Administrator O'Malley. Director Roy, please kick us off. [3:47] Bryan Kaenrath: Tonight, we will be going over police on page 42 and 44 of your books. The overall increase is 801,153, or 7.5%. Police administration is found on page 42. Overall increase of $72,392, or 10%. The personnel services increase, $44,466, for steps and COLAs, is the largest increase. Criminal Investigation Division, on page 42, overall decrease of $37,149. The overall decrease in this department is in personal services, a decrease of $36,163 for the frozen position that was discussed the very first night. Patrol is found on page 43, overall increase of $403,200, or 6.5%. The largest increase is in supplies, in gas and oil, $286,700 for the gas for the take-home vehicles. vehicles. Contracted services, an increase of $73,175. For repairs of vehicles, $55,150 for additional take-home vehicles. Support service division, page 43 and 44 of your books. Overall increase, $321,322, or 36.8%. The largest increase in contracted services and maintenance and license of 312 469 for the body camera maintenance contract which increased 243 443 along with some other new items a new flock camera service contract seventy thousand new recruit nap nine thousand and new t2 ticket payment system for ten thousand three thirty one Police building found on page 44 Overall increase of 48,554 or 17% The largest increase is in contracted services 50,534 for cleaning services of 24,640 For additional cleaning of 11,000 Deep cleaning of 3,840 And carpet cleaning for 10,000 Animal Control Officer can be found on page 44, overall decrease of 7,166, or 6%. The full decrease is in personal services due to the new hire is lower than the individual who retired. tire and on for the LC IP and your LC IP book on page 31 is the discussion for the police take-home vehicle program of 5.2 million that is the largest increases and decreases in police and the chief is here to answer any [6:47] Carl L. Sheline: questions Thank You chief for being here appreciate your service to our city Really quick Really quick question is our animal control officer. Are they part-time full-time? They're full-time and they belong to just us. Yes, like they're full-time in Lewiston. Yes. Got it. Okay. Thank you further questions or comments for torture and chief Conley [7:15] David B. Chittim: Councilor Chittim. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Chief. Is the animal control officer a sworn officer? No, he's not. Okay, thank you. I'd heard a rumor that parking enforcement and animal control were both sworn officers. [7:29] Bryan Kaenrath: And that's no, they're civilians. Thank you. [7:32] David B. Chittim: Can you explain this to TT to ticket payment system? What is that all about? [7:38] Bryan Kaenrath: Yeah, so that is something that the support services Lieutenant St. Lauren has been working on with our parking enforcement. As you know, we only have one parking enforcement officer, and really our system right now is sort of antiquated, right? Exactly. So this is an automated service that allows her to ticket, and then as soon as the individual gets the ticket, they can pay with a QR code, and just it's immediately completed. So like the way the system works right now, she writes a ticket, then let's say you were the one that received the ticket, you go to this, okay, so hypothetically, right, so you go to the station to pay for the ticket. If she has not been back to the station and given it to our records clerk, who has now entered it into the system, you would not even be able to pay for the ticket. It also has the ability to assist with, you know, as I'm sure you're familiar, we changed the parking recently with the downtown area, and we have some that are shorter parking, which is more of a challenge, right, for her to keep up with, and it actually has the ability to take a picture. Instead of like chalking a tire, it takes a picture, and then she goes back through it, matches that picture, sees that the tire hasn't moved. It's really just much easier, much more efficient, given the fact that we have one parking enforcement officer, and then should the city decide to eventually go to some of the, you know, different parking and fees that you see all across the country, right, with the QR codes where you, it's combat compatible with that. So okay, thank you. Do we have the [9:25] David B. Chittim: system in place now or is this a new no this would be a new purchase this is something we're looking to obtain and if I heard you correctly I get out to my car and there's a ticket on the window before I drive away I can resolve this I can pay it on my phone and yes it can be taken care of just like that yes okay thank you very much i will have other questions but i'll turn it over to anyone else councillor naging [9:52] Joshua L. Nagine: Since we're focusing on animal control and parking, one, what collective bargaining unit do those [9:58] Bryan Kaenrath: Two employees sit with, I actually am not sure, but I could get back to you on which one. I know there's a couple different collective bargaining units with the civilians, but I'm not sure which. [10:11] Joshua L. Nagine: One, they're part of, it wouldn't be the patrol union, no, that's a separate unit also. The parking enforcement officer, are they still, do not have the technology to verify whether or not there's like a call out on a license plate when they're ticketing, or are they able to ticket for unregistered vehicles, any of those pieces that they were not able to do in the past? [10:36] Bryan Kaenrath: Because they didn't have the technologies for, no, they're not certified to deal with unregistered motor vehicles. They're just civilian employees, so, okay. The reason why I bring this up is my car. [10:46] Joshua L. Nagine: actually was unregistered it lapsed by like i think a week or two weeks and i had gotten a ticket and i was surprised that i wasn't ticketed for having an unregistered vehicle as well and so i guess the question is there like any cross like for instance if i was the parking enforcement officer and i came across a vehicle that looked to be unregistered or uninspected would i call that into the station to have that followed up on or not [11:12] Bryan Kaenrath: They certainly could call an officer over if they, if they wanted to, but they wouldn't have the authority to issue like a citation, but they wouldn't have, okay, gotcha, that gives me a good. [11:23] Joshua L. Nagine: Idea, so there's still kind of, I think maybe some types of holes, and if we're going to change our parking enforcement rules and who can enforce them, correct, like what I'm trying to get at is like, so for right now we have this 24-hour toe rule unless you have 200 in tickets, and that's city-wide for every section of the city, and what I was wondering is if we were to advance like parking zones, for instance, and say in this zone, you'd be towed after two hours, three hours, four hours, and then. Also removing vehicles from our city streets that are unregistered. We don't have the capability of doing that without having an officer do it, correct? [12:07] Bryan Kaenrath: Yeah, it really comes down to an authority aspect, right? As a parking enforcement, a civilian employee, they do not have the authority to issue citations. That's for law enforcement personnel only when it's related to like unregistered more, that's a 29, a violation versus just a city ordinance, you know, a parking, what we determine as a city is a violation of. [12:29] Carl L. Sheline: Our parking, okay, thank you. I don't want to put you on the spot, Deputy Administrator O'Malley, but were you, did you, were you looking up where the individuals were, what unions? Yeah, what unions? They, well, I think council in the [12:50] David B. Chittim: gene answer those own question about if he was thinking they were part of the patrol. You know, they're not there about, I believe MSCA is their union that [12:55] Carl L. Sheline: they're in. Thank you very much. Further questions, comments? [13:02] David B. Chittim: Councillor Chittim, this is my second bite at the apple now. We're, yeah, I'll do the counting, but thank you. Please continue. I want to talk about take-home vehicles. Can you break out the additional costs if take-home vehicles are not approved by the council this time around? You've got 55,000 increase in repairs. Is that all due to the take-home vehicles? Similarly, 286,000 for gas for take-home vehicles, tires and tubes and so on, are those all directly attributable, or is there some natural increase in the existing [13:43] Bryan Kaenrath: costs of the present fleet? Right, so the way that we broke it down, and I think you all should have the memo on that, kind of breaks everything down. It's for 85 vehicles. Our estimated repairs would be $55,000 of an increase. So Tracy might be able to explain it better how it breaks down in the budget as far as the differences. Correct. So if the take-home vehicles do not pass, items will be removed out. So under the gas and oil, there will be $297,500 removed. Under repairs vehicles, $55,250. 4250 and then for under the auto insurance, which is not in the police department's line, is under the miscellaneous, which we'll be going over on Thursday, 120,000 will be removed. So that will be a total of four hundred and seventy two thousand seven fifty four [14:49] David B. Chittim: seventy two, 472,750. Correct. Okay. Thank you. And the increase in maintenance contracted services for the new police building of 50,000, is this, was this not anticipated, or is there more wear and tear to the building than we had planned on, or why are we looking at a 50,000 increase in cleaning services? So [15:25] Bryan Kaenrath: those are numbers that louis comes up with that 's he handles our mate you know the building maintenance and my estimation would be that you know we had an estimate of what it would cost and actually being in the building there's more to it at this point okay so can we get mr. [15:46] David B. Chittim: Turcotte in here at some point? I don't see him. Sorry, he was supposed to be [15:51] Bryan Kaenrath: Here tonight to answer any of those questions he may have. Just been running late or something probably happened. Can you move the mic closer to you please? So I think when they took the estimate last year it was, it was just an estimate, it because they were not in the building. So now that they're in the building they got the square footage and they're looking at what they need to do for cleaning. That's why it's an increase from [16:18] David B. Chittim: what they estimated last year. Okay, that's that's a reasonable explanation. I'd like to hear that from Mr. Turcott, so I'd like to put a pin in that if we could. Yeah, and finally the other hot button topic is flock cameras were purchased or the first year lease on that, the first year subscription on that was paid for by a burn grant. Yes, and this is the first year that would be paying for these cameras out of the city budget. Yes, could we have a summary to the extent that you can share information of the benefits that flock cameras have provided for us? There is an incredible amount of misinformation out there as you know chief. A lot of people are up in arms about the privacy issues and all these other things, and some of that I buy, some of it I don't, some of it is inflated, but I would like to know for seventy thousand dollars what is the benefit to the city that we have seen in one year experience we've had with flock cameras paid for by outside sources by that burn grant. I don't know if you have that information readily at hand, but if you could distribute that to the council and make it available to the public, I think that might go a long way to answering some of the concerns that have been expressed about this, the license plate reader camera system. [17:45] Bryan Kaenrath: Certainly I can tell you that we've been keeping a monthly report update on you know all of the benefits, you know whether it be shooting investigations, kidnappings, things along domestic violence, things along those lines, so we could certainly share that with you, and I can say that seventy thousand dollars is the amount that we were initially quoted. However it does look like we have some wiggle room. There's been some conversations, there's a potential to get that contract. I spoke with sergeant Brown the other day, we think possibly for forty thousand, so don't hold me to that, but we are looking to get that at a cheaper. [18:26] David B. Chittim: Instead of $70,000, it would be $40,000. Correct. I seem to recall that when the cameras first came in, there was a three- or five-year contract that was proposed, and it was $70,000 a year. But that's good news. If we can demonstrate the benefit and get it for 60% of the cost, that would go a long way I think toward making some minds up on a council thank [18:54] Susan G. Longchamps: you counselor luncheons good evening chief thank you for everything that you guys do for our city from my understanding the take-home cars were really a great tool for getting new officers in, is that correct? Yes. And other cities are doing this, or states? [19:21] Bryan Kaenrath: Yeah, so we would be, in Maine, I would say we would be the first large municipal city. Sheriff's departments, it's very common. And state police, obviously. And you look at those two agencies, and they're full complement. and you know we interview people on a regular basis we have a recruitment officer now that 's her sole focus and that is a very big thing to new officers it is one of the first things that officers talk about and for us you know we're always trying to be creative right and we understand that this is a big initial ask financially but when we did the research on it and looked at you know the long-term outcome of how this would affect the budget I really think it looks like in the long run this is gonna save us money as a city and I think it's it's crucial for us like I said we're just trying to be creative as we can in the in the avenues that we can as a department to get people to come to Lewiston you know we're down 15 people right now between you know how many open positions we have and people that are just in training or injured and we're looking at in september being down 18 we have three that we know are retiring and those are it's just we're constantly playing catch up and some of the conversations that a lot of officers have had with you know maine is small right for law enforcement so people talk people go to the academy together this is something that just it being out there people are reaching out to our officers and saying are you guys really going to get the cars are you know, is this going to happen? So, you know, we really do believe that it would be a very good recruitment tool. [21:16] Susan G. Longchamps: And I was thinking, you know, because obviously we do have a very tight budget this year, you know, I don't want to see this shut down. I do think it's critical that we do things to recruit good officers, but maybe we don't, we're not able to do all of the 80, [21:36] Bryan Kaenrath: what was it 80 I believe it was 65 additional right that we would be okay so 65 [21:45] Susan G. Longchamps: you know maybe we do half of that this year and then half I just I just hope that us as counsel you know really take this inconsist consideration how critical it is for us to attract new officers and if this seems to be an attractive tool I'm just hoping that we can I'd like to do all of them but if we can't I'd like to at least see us compromise and do half so that's just what I'd like to say and again [22:19] Scott A. Harriman: thank you for all you do thank you counselor Herman thank you so going back to the flock cameras I believe when they were originally proposed it was around 120 or 130 000 a year was the contract and then flock reduced it to jet to 69 9 so it was just under the amount of the grant and they waived the installation fees as well so if their normal price is 120 or 130 and we're getting it for 70 now but you're saying we could get it for 40,000 how does that work with is their pricing [22:57] Bryan Kaenrath: really that variable I 'm just telling you what sergeant Brown has been in conversations with them on it sounds like you know like anything else like when you go out and buy a car right you look at you know which dealer sells the car for a better deal and you know obviously as departments we talk with other departments and sometimes have an awareness of prices that they get on things that they purchase so in talking with sergeant brown HE BELIEVES WE COULD GET IT FOR LESS THAN 70,000. OKAY. Thank you. [23:32] Joshua L. Nagine: Councilor Najing. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just a few quick questions about, well, let's start with the vehicles. I think the first part that I would like to know is if we don't take the LCIP piece for the 65 vehicles or even half of the vehicles, we still need to buy replacement vehicles this year, correct? Yes. We still and that's not built into any schematic that we're looking at right now [23:58] Bryan Kaenrath: OKAY IT WAS BUT I BELIEVE THEY MOVED IT INTO THE LCIP CORRECT SO ORIGINALLY THEY WERE UNDER The capital items, if you can move the microphone. Much, originally they were under the capital items, the four five account under police. All of the capital items were removed, if you remember, during the city administration's cuts when we're looking at cuts to reduce the tax rate. All of those were removed, so if these do not pass, then we should look at least putting in vehicles. [24:31] Joshua L. Nagine: That they'll need to replace. Okay, and if you could just speak just really quick, I know recruiting is a super important, obviously, but could you just speak to like the timelines around putting somebody in the, how many people can go into the academy at once? How many people are actually in the academy? How long does it take to get somebody out of the academy? Because I think what I'm trying to illustrate here is that in order to quickly fill these open positions, we're either taking from other departments in the state or recruiting from out of state for the most part, and you can tell me if I'm incorrect or incorrect on that and what the windows are for training. [25:12] Bryan Kaenrath: So are you talking about in reference to somebody who's not certified in law enforcement that process? [25:18] Joshua L. Nagine: So let's say we have an applicant that we're interested in hiring. We're gonna send them to the Academy. What's the backup for getting them into the Academy? [25:25] Bryan Kaenrath: How long does it take to get them out of the Academy and yeah see so we you have two academies police academies a year I mean, it's not like Lewiston has their own Academy in Portland, right? There's there's two academies twice a year. So one in August one that just started the Academy is 18 weeks long the process for hiring somebody I would say tends to take about at least two months between the interview the psych the polygraph the physical all of that process the academies in 18 weeks then they come out of the Academy and then they do at least 12 weeks of field training so I mean your rough estimate right is probably close to a year before if somebody's not certified as a police officer to count so for example we had a corporal retire if we hired somebody the day after he retired you know a couple weeks ago we'd be looking at a year almost by the time that person's actually replacing that individual at our police department [26:26] Joshua L. Nagine: okay and let's say we had 15 applicants somehow that we that we're going to go through the academy would there be enough spaces in August to send those 15 applicants that's [26:38] Bryan Kaenrath: Unknown, that's the challenge with that, you know, because again, it's an academy that serves the entire state, so we can't always guarantee that we get those spots there's, you know, the past couple years I think we've had better luck there were times where we had, you know, officers that we had to hire and they were just at the station working not certified in order to get them blocked INTO THE NEXT ACADEMY DEFINITELY DURING AROUND LIKE THE COVID TIME THAT WAS A MAJOR ISSUE SO THERE'S NO GUARANTEED SPOTS YEAH [27:13] Carl L. Sheline: EITHER UH YEAH DEPUTY CHIEF EITHER JUST NO OUR FOLKS AT HOME STILL WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HEAR YOU A COUPLE OF THINGS JUST TO CLEAR SOME THINGS UP [27:25] Joshua L. Nagine: SO I APPRECIATE THAT BECAUSE I THINK THE PEOPLE AT HOME HAVE TO SO UM ONE OF THE BIG THINGS [27:30] Speaker I (unidentified): That these cars would do is we'd get blue pins, people that are already certified police officers that are the towns, and that would bring in a lot of people that are already kind of standing by and waiting to see if this actually happens. We've had word to some of our officers that, hey, are you guys really getting them? Because if you are, we're gonna, we're coming. That's a big thing for these young officers these days. Now on the academy, one of the things that once we get up to full staffing or get Close to full staffing, if we have a cadre at the police academy, we can have as many people as we can put in that academy. We have open slot rights. Without that, it's done by date, whatever time the applicant that we have has fully done their process and we say they're hired, then we can get them on a list at the academy depending on when that occurs. But if we could have a few more employees, we could send a cadre to the academy and represent the city of Lewiston and be a cadre. We can have as many slots as we want so that 's that's a benefit to getting a few more officers so we can keep our head above water because right now we can't send anybody up there we're just trying to cover the beads if that [28:39] Joshua L. Nagine: Helped you clarify it, certainly thank you, I appreciate it. [28:43] Bryan Kaenrath: just to expand on that really quickly and that's the big difference between a blue pin versus a new hire that's not been certified if you have somebody that comes from another agency to get them up to speed and out on their own it's generally you know four weeks it's it's a very quick turnaround for us comparatively to a year so [29:04] Joshua L. Nagine: I just to make this, you know, to state this publicly, a lot of the people that reach out to me that have concerns usually have concerns about the amount of patrol that we have out on the streets and how often neighborhoods are patrolled. That's balanced against, obviously, the, you know, that the police department is the largest municipal side expense, but we're obviously not staffed enough to even make, when people have complaints, we don't necessarily have the people to deal with, you know, like if a neighborhood says I want to see a patrol every night, you know, at 11 o'clock or something like that, 's not possible right now, correct? I [29:47] Bryan Kaenrath: mean, we can try, but we can't, you know, we're in a position where we can't, you know, our crime reduction unit isn't full, our community resource team isn't full, we're just, you know, we're dealing with trying to staff seven people to work at a time to work shifts, and we handle 50,000 calls on average of service a year, so [30:05] Joshua L. Nagine: we're definitely stretched pretty thin. Okay, I appreciate that. I just kind of want anybody at home in TV land to understand that there's a cost to staffing the department. Yeah, thank you. [30:17] Michael R. Roy: Council Roy, thank you, Mr. Mayor. One of the questions I had would be, how many vehicles WERE SUPPOSED TO BE ON IN THE BUDGET FOR THIS YEAR. [30:28] Bryan Kaenrath: 14, I BELIEVE, RIGHT, WAS WHAT WE REQUESTED, WHICH IS ON AVERAGE WHAT WE REQUEST A YEAR. OK. [30:34] Michael R. Roy: OK. THE OTHER QUESTION WOULD BE, ARE WE LOCKED INTO THE FLOT CAMERAS FOR THIS YEAR? LIKE, IS THERE A WAY THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO USE THEM? AND WHAT WOULD BE THE DOWN SIDE TO NOT HAVING THEM? [30:47] Bryan Kaenrath: SO WE'RE NOT LOCKED IN. I MEAN, I BELIEVE IT WILL expire in December, I believe, don't quote me on that, but it's right around that time frame. The downside to getting rid of them, to be honest, is they're a huge resource to us, they're, they're, they're cameras that allow us to, they're a huge time saver, you know, and being down the manpower that we are, we're trying to use resources that allow us to still function and solve crime, right? So we already rely heavily on all of the camera systems in the city. That's it, that's a huge resource to us, and these are just additional cameras. You know, it's another reason why we're looking at the drone, for example, that's the first responder that I'm sure most of you are familiar with, the Main Family Credit Union. You know, we happen to have an officer who was drone certified and working that night, so it was great, so it assisted us. But if we had that first responder drone, that call would have come into dispatch and that drone would have been there before our officers were, so we're just trying to look at things that sort of balance right the fiscal issues that we deal with, but at the same time the manpower issues that we struggle [32:03] Michael R. Roy: with. Thank you for that. One of the questions that just came up as you were talking, so if we have other cameras, do we have to use the Flock camera system? Like, can't we just use the other cameras because there's such, there's such a big like, yeah, hatred to them. I understand what you're [32:20] Bryan Kaenrath: saying, and I understand people's concerns, but they do two very different things. What Flock cameras focus on truly is license plates, so they connect things, so like, let's say you have a vehicle and you have, you know, they're a suspect in a kidnapping or something like that, it's specific to the license plate and vehicle, whereas our other cameras in the system, you could, you know, get a complaint about anything in a specific area, and then you're researching different cameras, and then all the Flock cameras communicate with each other, right? So if you're looking for a specific vehicle or a specific plate and they decide to head out to Auburn or head out to Lisbon or that does all the work for you, right, because it tracks that particular [33:35] Bret Martel: the manpower to do the work that these do for you, which we've established, could you talk to them, which we've established that we don't, what's the value of the work of the that you get for compared to the cost of 40,000. So what's an average officer make, a 100 grand a year with overtime or something, is that like a starting, possibly with overtime? Yeah, but I think like [34:00] Bryan Kaenrath: a starting officer is with benefits, would you say 90. [34:06] Bret Martel: Right around, yeah, so for about, sorry, Counselor Martel, please speak into the mic. Thank you. Sorry, so for about the cost of a part-time officer if it existed, you're getting this whole flock system which is able to do a lot more work than say one officer. If you were able to pick up an extra officer or two officers, could two officers do the work that these flock cameras do in a year? No, right. So we're getting an immense amount of value for the money that we are spending is the point I'm trying to establish. Would you agree with that? Yes, okay, thank you. And for the take-home cruisers, how many of these, the blue pin dispatchable day one sending out to keep Lewiston safe officers do you think we could realistically expect to bring in and say the first 12 months if we've got take-home cars ready to go and they're on the books and kind of like what we heard deputy chief talking about, the rumblings, hey, get these, we're here. Do you have any kind of ballpark number that we can expect to bring [35:05] Bryan Kaenrath: into the community? So I hate to, you know, I can tell you what I've heard and it's very similar to three years or so ago when we got a pretty decent raise comparatively. There's a lot of chatter, four or five at least is what I've heard, you know. And as I mentioned before, I mean, law enforcement in Maine's pretty small, people communicate, they stay connected, you know, they've gone to the academy with each other. There's definitely been people reaching out to our officers, you know, and saying is this really going to happen, you know, we'd really consider [35:42] Bret Martel: coming over here. And so, and this is mostly for people at home because I do know this, but so over five years this is actually cost neutral or beneficial for the city. This costs less than the 14 cars a year on average that you said we normally buy and maintain and the maintenance and everything on those. So this is actually a cost savings for cars for the department over a five-year period. It's [36:10] Bryan Kaenrath: just a bigger initial outlay. Yes, yeah, if you look at the, you know, if you go back five years and you look at the average increase every year and then you span that out and you guys would have that in the memo, will definitely save [36:24] Bret Martel: money in the long run on this. So we're buying all of these cruisers that have fixed pre-decided amount now rather than risking however much they're gonna go up over the next five years for cruisers from wherever we get them from. Yes, okay, [36:39] Carl L. Sheline: that's what I've got for now. Thank you, director. Yes, so without overtime it's [36:46] Bryan Kaenrath: 97 396 for an officer without overtime a [36:52] Carl L. Sheline: couple of quick questions here chief so i know you [36:54] Bryan Kaenrath: mentioned we're down what, 15 officers? Yes, between down eight and then between people that are only training right now, like in the academy or an FTO, and then four that are actually out injured, so [37:07] Carl L. Sheline: we're running 15 short. Okay, I think you just answered my question. I wanted to know how many, like if how many if they presented we could hire right now and it would be [37:17] Bryan Kaenrath: eight, then eight. Yes, I say that, but we still have the two positions frozen, so I think we could only hire six. Yes, understood, five with the additional. Okay, [37:30] Susan G. Longchamps: thank you counselor long champs yes I would just like to say although I think the flock cameras are really ugly they're big but the reality is they're helping solve crimes much faster especially in areas where people either just are accustomed to not wanting to share information or feel some sort of retaliation if they do which happens a lot you know these flock cameras really are helping solve real crime I think that's really what we need to be focused on I don't think it's so much just that it's easier for an officer, right? I think it's, it really has a great purpose if it's getting license plate numbers. I know for certain, you know, there are certain cameras that are set up from the city that for some reason aren't working at that time, or so then you really, you really have to rely on the folks that may have witnessed that won't say anything. So I feel as though these are definitely beneficial for that reason alone, and I do like, I didn't even think of the recruiting tool for which was really dumb of me, for officers that are already seasoned. I mean, you know, if we have officers that have already gone through training, they're already very knowledgeable, how much better would that be for our city to recruit some of those folks here? And I think a take-home vehicle to, you know, just seeing them at different homes in different locations, you know, could potentially deter certain things from happening. So that's just, that's just my thought on it. Thank you. I can say speaking to what you're referencing [39:32] Bryan Kaenrath: As far as people talking to us, I mean, I've been here for over 25 years now, and the reality is, when I worked in patrol, I worked downtown, it's changed. You know, in law enforcement, we really have to require or rely heavily on technology now. And, you know, it can be frustrating for us as law enforcement that people don't want to talk, but I certainly understand why, you know what I mean? Because when I leave that scene, they have to live where they have to live and deal with who they're, you know, talking to us about. Out so technology in the past I would say five to six years has really been a huge tool for us much more so than you know 20 years ago. [40:11] Carl L. Sheline: Yes counselor. [40:13] Scott A. Harriman: Herman thank you on the on the vehicles how many of our staff live in Lewiston and how many live outside Lewiston and it's okay if you don't have that right now if you could get that to us just thinking of the like the deterrent. [40:28] Bryan Kaenrath: Effect yeah I can I could certainly I can't tell you off the top of my head unfortunately but I can get you a list of that okay thank you counselor and agent just. [40:39] Joshua L. Nagine: Really quickly how many people on the force right now are able to retire tomorrow do you. [40:47] Bryan Kaenrath: Know off the top of your head let me see if I have my memo on that I know of three this summer that will be retiring for sure they're in the drop program so they're they're going to be retiring. [40:59] Joshua L. Nagine: He's in the majority of the folks that are in the drop program are from the police department correct pretty sure but what I'm just trying to figure out is like how many people not are retiring but could we okay so 12 can retire today. [41:14] Bryan Kaenrath: We know three of them will be retiring definitely this summer okay and then in 26 and 27 we'll have seven that can retire and how large is the force. [41:26] Joshua L. Nagine: Overall when it's fully staffed which hasn't happened okay thanks. [41:34] Carl L. Sheline: SO YOU'LL BE COMING UH BACK TO US WITH UM OR SENDING AROUND UM A REPORT ON UH FLOCK AND HOW IT'S BEEN UH USED HERE IN LOUISTON DID I UNDERSTAND THAT CORRECTLY CHIEF YES OKAY EXCELLENT UH YES UM COUNCILOR NOBLE [41:52] David B. Chittim: Can you also include in that the limitations that Lewiston has set in place on our flock cameras? I spoke with Sergeant Brown about it Monday, and I think it's important to add that. [42:05] Bryan Kaenrath: So people know what we're doing to have more control over them. And we're more than happy to do some sort of presentation to you all if that would help. I mean, Officer Brown's pretty good, or Sergeant Brown, I should say, is pretty good about explaining that and taking the time. So he, if any of the council specifically want to come in and take a look at it or have questions about that, they're more than welcome to do that, but I could include that. Thank [42:31] Carl L. Sheline: You, chief, for the questions for Chief Conley before we proceed. Did we do drug enforcement? [42:39] Joshua L. Nagine: Concern aging. Yes. I just, sorry. I do have to weigh in on the flock cameras really quickly And one of the things with the flock cameras is we know that very quickly without even doing any field interviews use we can identify potential suspects as well as potential witnesses to crimes based on the vehicles that are in the area at the time and whether or not they've moved and I think that 's that's a key component here I think the challenge that the general public has is not misunderstanding of when we're using this technology and how we're using this technology and who we're sharing it, we're sharing, and I think that those are the parts that if we could be more clear with the public about, it's not necessarily like something that has to be explained just to the council in a council workshop. It has to be something that the public can understand so that some of these things that are being repeated, if they're not true, can clearly be shown, and some of the things that people are worried about, if we haven't thought about, we address that's all, because I can tell you right now, knowing how the technology works and also knowing how we are able to basically get information before we even completely understand all the different aspects of what crime has actually been committed, is huge. The time frames in which we research things, that's how we solve crimes. The longer something sits out there. So I have no issue with the department using technologies. I get a lot of pushback from the constituency, from certain segments of the constituency with it, don't understand what controls we've put in place, and then also some of the some of the information that is being shared publicly about concerns we haven't answered as an apartment, I think, and I think that's, that's where we need [44:34] Carl L. Sheline: to go. I'm sure the chief Connelly will put all of that in her report. Dr. Roy, have we done drug enforcement yet? [Bryan Kaenrath: No, that's next.] Okay. Let's proceed with that. [44:49] Bryan Kaenrath: So drug enforcement you'll find on page 45 of your book. There's an overall decrease of $80,563. This is a non-tax-based fund. It also needs to be used for related drug remediation. The revenue sides increase in $6,000. We're keeping it conservative, and the fund balance at the end of the year, fiscal year 25, is $959,489. The largest decrease you'll see is in the capital outlay for $69,802. This is decreased for the vehicles of $26,000 for the drug forfeiture portion of the replacement and public safety equipment $43,802 for a decrease of the purchase cost of 25 tasers that they had in fiscal year 26. Any questions on this? [45:52] Carl L. Sheline: Councillor Chittim. [45:53] David B. Chittim: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. For my edification, this is not related to drug forfeiture money. This is separate money that's not tax revenue, this is drug forfeiture money, so that's a, that's a highly variable revenue, is it not, and that's why we [46:13] Bryan Kaenrath: budget conservatively, not knowing what we are going to receive. Okay, we received [46:19] David B. Chittim: a memo recently that showed many millions of dollars, but that was be distributed among very, among many different enforcement, law enforcement [46:28] Bryan Kaenrath: agencies. Is that the one that, yes, that we're supposed to receive, but it's, it's accepting, yes, we don't know like what we're gonna get out of that, what's gonna be distributed to specifically to Lewis and PD, so anytime we have officers, basically what happens is any officers connected with a task force, so for example FBI, HSI, Haida, which is the EA main drug, also whenever they do any kind of operation where they get money from forfeiture, our officers, even if it doesn't happen in Lewiston, for example, we usually receive funds from that. Okay, and I'm sure it's a fairly [47:11] David B. Chittim: complicated, not fairly, extremely complicated formula that divvies that up, so, but the point is, I guess we are budgeting conservatively, anticipating that our drug forfeiture revenues are going to be lower than we think they will be. Correct. Thank you, and [47:29] Carl L. Sheline: Chief, sometimes it can [47:31] Bryan Kaenrath: take years to get that money. Correct. Yes, it sometimes it takes two to three years before the case is resolved in the courts, and then, for example, I think we presented one on the last council meeting where we just received sixteen thousand dollars. That generally takes six to nine months even to receive those funds, so it's, it's a lengthy process, and, you know, we've seen much less coming in recent years, and we've spent a lot more out of [47:59] Carl L. Sheline: It especially with the building, right? So even when, even when we know we are getting money, it still takes a long time for it to hit our account. Yes. Okay, and so right now we have roughly nine hundred fifty nine thousand in that [48:15] Bryan Kaenrath: account to spend like that's money that we could spend right now I have as of 323 we have seven hundred and fifty nine thousand in there however there's thirty thousand and some change that's going to be spent on this budget and then we budgeted for this next budget two hundred and twenty six thousand so all said and done it would leave us with five hundred and two thousand two hundred and ninety four dollars so about five hundred thousand left that's the available amount if this goes this budget goes through, that would be the [48:55] Carl L. Sheline: available amount. Yes. Okay, thank you. Further questions from the council? [49:00] David B. Chittim: Councillor, to follow up on that, at the end of fiscal 25 we had nine hundred and $159,000 per year memo. What did we spend $200,000 on? If you look at your column for [49:15] Bryan Kaenrath: 2026 actual, it's only till January 31st. So it's as Chief said, she had numbers as of March, but if you look at those numbers at the very bottom it says available fund balance. So what page are we on, page 45? Thank you. At the very bottom, you'll see that it says available fund balance. So your 2023, your 2024 and 2025 are actual numbers that were audited, so those were ended numbers, and then you get into what we budgeted. If you look at what we budgeted for 2026, if they come in, it would end 695,315. If you look at the, go over another column to the actual for January 31st. As of January 31st, those are the revenues and expenses that came in. So as of January 31st it [50:12] David B. Chittim: ended with 493,678. Okay, but what did we spend that money on? I know Chief Saint Pierre purchased some firearms and I think there were some other... Oh yes, we bought lockers for the police station. Was that in... that was, that was just recently, wasn't it? Well, it seems like a long time ago. I can [50:37] Bryan Kaenrath: give you a couple examples. I don't have the entire list. That's fine. So for the FY 26 we bought the new pistols, those were 86,000. We bought 40 of the taser sevens, we needed new updated tasers, so the plan was to do half of them last year, we plan on doing the other half this year. That was a hundred and twenty six thousand eight hundred and ninety dollars, and then equipment for changeovers, I believe that's what the cruisers look, that was forty seven thousand. So that's just to give you a couple big purchases from this past year. Thank you. That's very helpful. [51:10] Carl L. Sheline: Councilor Nagine, I [51:13] Joshua L. Nagine: apologize. I'm actually gonna step back a little bit. When we were talking about the base pay for a new officer is ninety seven thousand, right? Right? But that didn't include equipment for the officer, correct? Like there's an equipment package that comes in with every officer, including the body-worn cameras, taser, all [51:35] Bryan Kaenrath: of that type of, if you can speak to that. It did not include those. It just included the wage and all the fringe that would go with that officer. It does not include outfitting [51:44] Joshua L. Nagine: that officer. And if we hire blue pins and they come in, let's say they have five years in, they're going to come in at step five for us as well, correct? Yes. Okay, I just wanted to clarify that. And I'm wondering, in the budget are we accounting for that? Like if we're attracting officers that have been on the force, on some force for five, six, seven years, does that, are we accounting for that piece or is that just the base salary that we're, that we're accounting for? [52:10] Bryan Kaenrath: We put in, it's, there's a couple different, it depends on like, for like community resource they're a little lower than the police officer. There's just you budget within that [52:28] Joshua L. Nagine: line kind of like a range. Okay, so we're not using the absolute lowest and we're not using. Okay. No, thank you. I just wanted to check on that because I think it's important if we're talking about bringing officers in from other departments that have experience, we want to make sure that in the budget we're accounting for that pay as well. That's all, thank you. Further [52:50] Carl L. Sheline: questions for the chief? Thank you for being here. Thank you. Are we now moving to fire director Ruin? Correct. [Joshua L. Nagine: I'm] glad that we've, I'm very happy that we've sustained to no injuries. Thank you so much for joining us, chief Karen [53:37] Bryan Kaenrath: and director Roy. Please kick us off. Fire is found on page 46 to 48 in your budget book. There's an overall increase of a million 171 374 or 12. Fire administration is found on page 46, overall decrease of 12 226. The decrease is in contracted services for repairs for vehicles. The largest decreases in telephones of $24,288. This is due to the firefighter stipends moving to their division. So their telephone stipends were in fire administration. We moved them into their division. Firefighters is on page 46 and 47. The overall increase is a million one. The largest increase is in personal services of $838,132. This is due to the new contract for the firefighters and under fixed costs, an increase of $220,000 for the hydrant rentals due to the water rate increase that we are recommending. The fire communications is on page 47. Overall increase of 3,690 all in personal services again due to the contract signed fire prevention is on page 47 48 overall increase of 42,000 335 or 17% all in purchase personal services increase of 41,000 967 for wages fire station on page 48, overall increase of 32,968 or 17%. The largest increase is in Heaton for 36,366, which was originally budgeted and fueled in prior years. So you'll see an offset decrease in the fuel supplies of 25,424 for that increase. And then the LCIP can be found on page 25 of your LC IP book is Lisbon Street fire station replacement project for seven million seven hundred and seventy seven thousand three ninety three of which the city share is seven million forty one thousand six eighty seven with the sale of Main Street fire station as I mentioned on the first night we had discussions there is an estimated additional twenty five thousand for that sale that we're looking to put towards the fire station LC IP so the city portion would be seven million sixteen thousand six eighty seven any questions for the chief [56:28] David B. Chittim: thank you a couple of questions one is the relocation of the telephone stipend we are reducing administration by 24 000 but we're increasing firefighting by [56:49] Bryan Kaenrath: 31 000. there's a there was an increase in the contract where the stipend used to be 30 [56:56] David B. Chittim: is now i believe 37 50. okay i raised this at the a meeting recently this is basically THIS IS FOR FIREFIGHTER CELL PHONES, IS THAT CORRECT? [57:09] Bryan Kaenrath: YES, THEY GET A MONTHLY STIPEND. [57:11] Carl L. Sheline: ARE YOU SPEAKING TO THE MIC, CHIEF? YES, SORRY. [57:14] Bryan Kaenrath: THEY GET A STIPEND AND IT USED TO BE $30 AND NOW IT'S $37.50 AND IT'S PAID MONTHLY. [57:20] David B. Chittim: OKAY. I PAY $30 PER LINE FOR MY PHONE AND MY WIFE'S PHONE. SO EFFECTIVELY, WE ARE PROVIDING FIREFIGHTERS WITH CELL PHONES THAT THEY CAN USE FOR ANYTHING. THERE'S NO LIMITATION ON THEIR USE, IS THAT CORRECT? [57:35] Bryan Kaenrath: Well, I think they would disagree. I think most of their cell phone plans are probably more than 3750 But we do pay them 3750 a month in exchange for Providing us their cell phone number as a means of communication [57:50] David B. Chittim: Okay, but there's no limitation on how they use the phones that is corrected. It's their personal cell phone. I see. All right, okay. Yeah, I mentioned the other night this sounds like a benefit to me that we're providing for firefighters and I have trouble with actually paying for personal cell phones, even though they are used occasionally for city business. Yeah, I think citywide [58:18] Bryan Kaenrath: I think there's many city employees. They received a cell phone stipend the I think it's gone on for [58:26] David B. Chittim: Several years that I'm aware of and I'm not picking on the fire department. I'm picking on any EMPLOYEE OWNED CELL PHONE THAT'S PAID FOR BY THE CITY BECAUSE IT'S USED OCCASIONALLY FOR CITY USE THAT 'S MY PROBLEM HERE THE OTHER ISSUE I WANT TO TALK ABOUT AS OR ACTUALLY HAVE SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO ME AND TO THE PUBLIC THE NEW FIRE STATION BEFORE WE MOVE ON CAN I JUST CLARIFY [58:52] Bryan Kaenrath: One more point absolutely the cell phone stipend is a contractual item and is not negotiable I cannot change that you have to you have to fund it thank you for clarifying that [59:02] David B. Chittim: And I would assume that's the case with cell phone the stipends across the board With other unions as well it is council chin and that's in the CBA for all unions and for non-union employees it's in the personnel policy of a $30 stipend a month okay and many employees get paid $30 a month and they use the cell phone is used constantly for city business so we don't limit what they can do with their phone because it's their personal sure it's a benefit that's probably been in effect about 20 years I think director Gagney brought this up we used to have pagers and we used to Issue cell phones to people and there was insurance on there was a it was a real headache for our finance department so that's when the city started transitioning to excuse me to the monthly stipends was cheaper for the cities to that than to issue phones to folks Okay thank you for that thorough explanation deputy administrator I appreciate it moving on to the new fire station can someone either director Roy or chief Karen talk about the crushed congressionally directed spending how much we've spent on that what the deadlines are and what effects there would be of postponing the construction of the new fire station but doing as much advanced work as possible to use up that money so we don't lose it yeah so the [1:00:24] Bryan Kaenrath: The congressionally directed spending was from the federal FY 23 budget. It came from the US Department of Housing and Urban Development, and we applied through Senator Collins' office. We did apply for funding for the station 3 replacement as well, and the city applied for other projects as well under that same grant program. And I think they were water, I think there was a the Riverwalk, and maybe Bates Mill 5 was also some projects that go under that same program. It is a 10-year runoff period, although the math doesn't really add up for me because the hard end date is September 15, 2031. All expenses, all reimbursable expenses must be submitted by that date. So the grant is for $1 million. We've spent 25% to 30% of it already. Land acquisition part of the grant is I had to make a budget and allocate the money, and so it was for engineering, land purchase, construction. So we have acquired the land, we've done some wetland surveys, we have like I said spent 25 to 30 percent of it. We are, I talked to the architect today, we are still working on this going forward. The city engineering staff is doing a lot of work for us on this. The downside of not spending that money or completing the project by the close-up date is that we will have to pay that money back if [1:02:08] David B. Chittim: I could clarify it's not that the money has to be spent, it's that the fire station has to be built and occupied and the [1:02:14] Bryan Kaenrath: ribbon cut and the project complete. The project must be complete by 2031 or we'll have to be [1:02:20] David B. Chittim: pay that money back. Okay, so that's five years out. The captain Bessonette, I refresh my memory, from start to finish on that project, how long a project was that? I [1:02:35] Bryan Kaenrath: would have to go research that, but from the time the plants went out to bid, you know, by the time they develop, well, as an engineer you're probably more familiar with this than I am, but it by the time they developed the bid set and sent it out to bid and they evaluated the bids, you know, awarded the contracts, mobilization, they waited to wait to a, you know, a certain construction window to get because of the winter weather. I don't know, I mean, it's it's years in the making, I mean, it doesn't, I mean it's I don't know the exact time from start to [1:03:14] David B. Chittim: FINISH BUT UH LET ME ASK A QUESTION ANOTHER WAY. UM IS SEPTEMBER 15TH 2031 NOT ACHIEVABLE IF WE MAKE ANY DELAYS? IF ANY DELAYS IN THE PROJECT WOULD THEY WOULD THEY IMPACT THE ABILITY TO [1:03:32] Bryan Kaenrath: COMPLETE IT BY SEPTEMBER 2031. I'M UNABLE TO PREDICT THE FUTURE. I DON'T KNOW, UM, and I had the same discussion with the planning board last evening, is that if it gets delayed this year, will we be having the same discussion next year? [1:03:53] Carl L. Sheline: Mr. Mayor, once I get a minute, Deputy Administrator, were you finished, Chief? [1:04:00] Bryan Kaenrath: Care, I am, if I, if I answered your question correctly, one second. [1:04:09] Carl L. Sheline: COUNSELOR CHIDDUM. YES, DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR. [1:04:11] David B. Chittim: I JUST WANTED TO CONTINUE ON THE CHIEF'S RESPONSE, COUNSELOR CHIDDUM. WHEN THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION WAS FILED WITH SENATOR COLLINS' OFFICE, PART OF OUR APPLICATION PROCESS WAS EXPLAINING THE EMERGENT NEED TO REPLACE THAT LISBON STREET FIRE STATION. SO WE PORTRAYED IT AS WE NEEDED TO GET THIS DONE. WHEN I CAME OVER FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, WE WERE WORKING ON BASINETTE WAY. THAT TOOK SEVERAL YEARS. It's been several years just to find the land that would meet the requirements of the fire department and their response times. We've done a lot of work on it. I've heard from Senator Collins' office that they're saying, well, you said you needed this money right away, we're hoping that you will go forward with this project, and they did reiterate the fact that we wouldn't need have to pay it back if we don't complete this project. Thank you, and I have seen the pictures of the Main Street fire station. I'm sorry, the number three station, and they are horrific. There's no doubt that this is a needed project. I'm just looking at the finances and the fiscal situation in Lewiston this year and saying, with the revaluation, with the costs over which we have no control, labor contracts, insurances, debt service, everything is going up. We are beginning to see numbers coming through now that look as though some,, if not many, residents will see a doubling of their taxes this year. And I'm looking at every way possible to mitigate that. And unfortunately, one of the ways that I'd like to explore is a $7 million fire station and whether a one-year delay will create an untenable risk for the city. I appreciate Senator Collins' office asking about this, but this, I believe, is a HUD grant, and HUD has established the deadlines. HUD has said this date, September 15, 2031, is the date by which the project must be completed. I understand the political ramifications of Senator Collins arguing that we argued this was a dire necessity. Senator Collins may not be there to carry this. I 'm not saying this very well, but there are politics involved here and there are Bureaucracies and I think the hard end date is a bureaucratic date rather than a political date And given the financial situation that we're in this year I think that it's it's incumbent on all of us to look at ways that we can reduce the financial impact of City operations across all Departments this year That's my spiel. I didn't ask a question there. I'm sorry, but thank you for your service and I Very much agree that this station is needed My disagreement is that my question is it needed this year? Thank you [1:07:14] Carl L. Sheline: Director Roy, when we spend LC IP money, that does not affect the tax rate, or am I confused? [1:07:21] Bryan Kaenrath: We usually go out to bond two years after the LC IP is approved, so therefore it would not come on the debt for two years, and if I can just mention, looking at the Main Street, it looks like the project started back in 2021, it when they approved the first portion to start doing the assessment of the property, so it ended March of 2026. It was when we finalized, so it does take quite a long time from start to finish. [1:07:59] Carl L. Sheline: To get this done, understood Director Roy, but in this case, we've already purchased [1:08:06] Bryan Kaenrath: the property, correct, and done, correct. I was just giving you a estimate of what it took for Main [1:08:12] Carl L. Sheline: Street from start to finish, right. I guess the point that I'm making is we're not at the beginning with this project technically. [1:08:22] Bryan Kaenrath: We are, we do have the land and but all of the architect and all of [1:08:27] Carl L. Sheline: that has to start up. Okay, gotcha, Councillor Nagine. Yes, thank you Mr. Mayor, so a few [1:08:37] Joshua L. Nagine: things, that the HUD grant is, how much are we talking about again, how many dollars, $1 million. $1 million? Okay. Also, just from experience, I know that anything that is delayed concerning construction is concerned never gets cheaper. Normally, it gets more expensive. This is almost universal. I've never seen anything come down as far as if you wait two, three, four years to get a project started, it's got to be more expensive. I also think that when we talk about the Main Street project, that was during COVID when there were definitely supply chain and work issues when we first started it, right? And I think that affected some of, like, it doesn't normally take five years to get a fire station built, right? [1:09:22] Bryan Kaenrath: The Main Street was just post-COVID, but Station Four was during COVID, and they did experience a lot of problems. [1:09:29] Joshua L. Nagine: OKAY. I'M JUST WEIGHING ALL OF THESE PIECES OUT TO KIND OF TO KIND OF PUT THEM IN THE PUBLIC EYE. WE WOULD NOT BE CARRYING THE COST FOR BORROWING FOR TWO MORE BUDGET YEARS. [1:09:46] Carl L. Sheline: SECOND YEARS CORRECT. OKAY. THANK YOU STATION FOR THAT'S THE TEMPLE STREET [1:09:53] Bryan Kaenrath: LOCATION CORRECT. NORTH TEMPLE STREET. NORTH TEMPLE. THANK YOU. I ALSO WANT TO add that the numbers for this were based on similar projects recently submitted bids for similar projects, so I don't know what the price will be two years from now. This is what I estimate the price is right now, but I don't know. [1:10:16] Carl L. Sheline: thank you. Further questions for our chief director Roy. I think we're thank you. Thank you and dr. Roy, what can you give us a preview of Thursday [1:10:34] Bryan Kaenrath: night's meeting? So Thursday night will be intergovernmental 9-1-1 and transit will be here. Airport could not make it, they will be coming on March 31st to do their presentation. We'll have social services, library, debt, miscellaneous and revenues and planning in code on Thursday. Okay, thank you so much. [1:11:02] Carl L. Sheline: appreciate both chiefs being here. Thank you so much and have a great night Lewiston. Thank You councillors and director Roy. Thank you.