Lewiston Council reviews take-home police vehicle proposal, begins Ward 5 appointment process

[1:17] Carl L. Sheline: Hello and good evening, and welcome to our Tuesday evening workshop. We're joined here by the Chief of Police, Chief of Police Carly Conley, and also Administrator Cain Rath. If you two want to kick it off, that'd be great. All right, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good evening, Council. Here with the [1:36] Bryan Kaenrath: Chief, we are here to present a proposal that you see in the LCIP. It is for take-home vehicles for the Police Department. Just to kick us off, this is something that will show, could lead to some efficiencies and cost savings in the long run over a longer period of years, but also the main goal is to increase our efforts with recruitment. As you know, we are down anywhere between 8 and 12 to 15 officers at a time. We need to find other, more creative ways to attract and recruit quality officers here to Lewiston. It is one of our major challenges. As we've talked about, public safety is one of our top priorities, and until we fill these seats at the Police Department, these vacancies, doing things like more proactive patrols, community policing, etc., is exceedingly difficult. So we need to fill these seats, and this is one potential way to begin tackling this problem. So with that, I'll turn over to Chief Connolly, who has a slide deck to go through [2:39] Carl L. Sheline: or then it's time for some questions. Thank you, thank you, thank you. If I can just get you to move the mic closer to you, that'd be great. A lot, okay, now a lot closer. All right, so thank you [2:51] Chief Carly Conley: for taking the time to hear about this project. It's something that we looked into a little bit a few years back, and we've revisited it. I gave everybody a packet that basically is the slide deck, and it includes a memo, and then also Councillor Chittim had reached out with some questions ahead of time that we answered, so we provided those to you as well. We can also share this with you after the presentation, and feel free to ask any questions. So I'm going to go through the slideshow. Please feel free to interrupt if I'm going too quickly, and feel free to ask any questions as we proceed. So basically, the Fleet Enhancement Project, [3:39] Carl L. Sheline: oh, we're not, I'll wait a little bit before. [3:59] Chief Carly Conley: So what this is, transitioning to a take-home vehicle model to improve long-term cost control, operational readiness, and officer recruitment and retention. Some of the goals of the Fleet Enhancement Project is obviously to transition to a take-home system. Right now we have a pool system. Achieve long-term cost savings, improve operational efficiency, support recruitment and retention, as the city administrator mentioned, that's that's a big one for us, increase accountability and fleet longevity, excuse me, longevity, and deter crime and enhance police visibility. A little bit about the program, it's a model that's used by the Maine State Police, every Sheriff's Department in Maine, and a limited number of rural police departments. We would be the first municipal of our size to use this program, and basically what it does is it's permanently assigns a vehicle for each sworn officer, and the benefit of it would be patrol vehicles would transition. Right now we're in sort of a three-year rotation cycle as far as vehicles go before we need to trade them in, so we would be looking at patrol vehicles lasting seven years, and our CID, which is our detective division, and admin vehicles potentially lasting 10 years. The fleet impact would immediately increase 65 vehicles to our fleet, which would bring us up to 85 vehicles. Obviously it would increase the visibility in neighborhoods, create a stronger public safety presence, and faster response to critical or large-scale incidents. And this last one I'll touch on just a little bit to bring us back to October of 2023. That was definitely an issue for us. We were fortunate enough to actually have range going that night, so we had extra police officers in the area at least, but what we dealt with is officers taking their personal vehicles to the scenes, not being equipped, some of them had to go to the police station to get weapons and gear, so that was that was definitely, this would be very beneficial should we see any kind of critical incident in the future. Some of the studies and research, and I and I won't, unless you want me to read every single one of these, this is just kind of a reference. What we've found is there's significant evidence to show that operating costs for assigned vehicles are substantially less than the pool systems that we currently are in. Examples of jurisdictions that have decreased their operating costs by adopting an assigned vehicle program are seen here. I can read a few of them for you, or I can read them all. But a city of Cape Coral, Florida, study concluded that an assigned vehicle program was most cost effective in the short term, one year, near future, three years, and the longer term, seven years, in a study done by the city of St. Petersburg, Florida, they found that the cost per mile to operate patrol cars in a pool program was 49 cents compared to a cost of 40 cents per mile for assigned vehicles. That savings amounted to them seventy six hundred dollars roughly per vehicle over the course of its life expectancy. As you can see in there 's there's several other examples as far as the increased vehicle longevity. These are just some more stats that focus on that. Sheriff's Department in Arizona found that the average life expectancy of an assigned vehicle is approximately seven years. Under the pool system previously utilized by that agency, the average life expectancy of a patrol vehicle is only 1.7 years. And then if you go down to the bottom and look at Texas, that says that also a study showed an increase from three to six years after going to an assigned take-home car model over a pool car. So I mean all the research we've done is the longevity of these vehicles, the wear and tear. Right now, you know, these are running 24 7, so a cruiser with 60 000 miles on it, they look at the engine and it looks like it has 300 000. So this is where it gets a little convoluted with numbers, but basically this is our detailed cost breakdown. So if you see at the top the vehicle cost that we would be looking for, this is the breakdown of what a patrol vehicle would cost in this program, 65 000. And then you see that we would need 45 an admin vehicle. What that is, that's the cid vehicles or the admin packages that we have. They don't have all of the equipment that the patrol vehicles have, so they're a little bit cheaper, radios, computers and mdts, the price prices on that, the in-car camera, and then our additional vehicle fees are things like the internet that we need for our mdts, things along those lines, and then estimated annual fuel and repairs. So what we did is we basically took our current system, what we have in place right now, and we tried to compare, we looked at the comparison of if we transition to a take-home, what's that going to look like, and that's over, we did what a cost analysis over seven years. So that is the beginning of this, is that's what this references. So you're looking at monthly in-car internet, estimated annual fuel, estimated annual repairs, and you'll see that what this does is it breaks down the current vehicle cost and then the proposed with the increase of to the fleet with the take-home, and the breakdown of that gives you an increase of 1 million. So what this is, this is the present Costs for vehicles, and that's 6 million at seventy six thousand dollars a vehicle, roughly, and that's the vehicle, including all of the equipment that we need in it, the radios, the MBTs, things along those lines. The estimated take-home costs, with 65 purchased at a price right now that we'd be locked in at $65,000, would be around $5 million. And then we estimate that over the course of the next seven years, we're going to need 21 replacement cars. We have vehicles in the fleet right now that within the next few years are obviously going to need to be traded in, and we incorporated what the cost of that would be, and then added the additional fees associated with these cruisers and came to the seven million mark. So your net capital cost? Right there is five hundred and twenty thousand over the seven years, an increase. This is just a, to give you a picture of what we expect our replacement schedule to be with vehicles. Year one, we'd obviously be receiving the 65. We don't need any new vehicles at that point, and then year two, three, we expect, given what our circumstances are with the fleet right now. We'd be looking at possibly three more. Each year, and then it would move on to five and five. So in those seven years, we expect that we'll be getting 21 more vehicles based on the lifespan of the vehicles currently in our fleet. And then you have to look at, okay, once you're done this program, what do we expect to be getting for vehicles from there on? And we think probably eight is a safe number, potentially 10. Right now, we're budgeting for about 13 a year, just to give you an idea. This is one of the things that, in the research we did, many agencies looked into what they call the mileage cost comparison, so they did studies on whether or not there was value based on the pool program, the current program that we have, and then the take home. So this is basically where I think we see our savings, to be honest, and when you break this down over the course of seven years, you have about four hundred and six thousand dollars in savings, and then this slide is basically the breakdown of your capital increase based on the previous slides, the mileage savings that saves you the four hundred and six thousand dollars, the vehicle trade-in, on average right now we get ten thousand dollars for a trade-in, so we expect to see that with the 21 Vehicles that we trade in and what we're looking for, our net savings is 95,000, and this just kind of breaks down where we came out with this. So basically the challenge is right now, what we're looking at is on average, if you look at our budget, what we've been budgeting for our fleet, and as I mentioned, you're looking at 10 to 13 cars a year. It's an average of 31% increase every year, so that the baseline for 2000 or 26 is five hundred and six thousand eleven vehicles. We're projecting that out in FY 31 to be over six million dollars. So the solution that we think would provide the best efficiency and support an expanding fleet with lowering the long-term cost per unit. We think it breaks the cycle of the 31% increase year to year. And obviously it provides operational excellence and over a half a million dollars in cost avoidance that can be reallocated to other needs in the take-home program. And then this last slide is sort of just a breakdown down of what our expectations on in the next five years where we think we're gonna land if we stay with the same system, which is you know on average 13 vehicles a year with a complement of about 38 versus 85 vehicles take home ready to go at five point six million anything [15:40] Carl L. Sheline: You'd like to add, administrator? [15:42] Bryan Kaenrath: Cane Wrath, no, I think the chief covered it, but you know, like I said, there's there's two I think main points to this. The first is an effort at recruitment. There is lots of information out there, whether it's anecdotal or otherwise, and just the experience other agencies, that this could be a major recruitment tool, number one. And number two is when you look at the longer term, there is some cost savings and some efficiency achieved also. So those are the two main points, but I think we would probably Agree that the effort of recruitment is the [16:13] Carl L. Sheline: TOP PRIORITY. THANK YOU. UH WE HAVE ABOUT 15 MINUTES OR SO UH FOR TIME FOR DISCUSSION AND QUESTIONS FROM [16:21] Michael R. Roy: COUNCILORS. UH COUNCILORS DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS? UH YES COUNCILOR ROY. UM THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION. I THINK IT SOUNDS REALLY GOOD MONEY WISE. I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE WE GOT A LOT OF STUFF COMING UP. UM A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS I DO HAVE. UM HOW MANY OFFICERS ARE WE DOWN RIGHT NOW? [16:40] Chief Carly Conley: So we're we're down eight, but we have two going into the academy, so that would bring us okay to six. We have four leaving, it's like playing a game of chess to be honest, but we have four leaving for sure this summer. Okay, and the two that are in the academy, do they count technically? But it takes them about a year before they count as a patrol officer to be honest. [17:02] Michael R. Roy: So we could possibly say maybe around 10 by summertime we could be down if give or take. Yes, that 's fair. Okay, how do we feel this would increase the [17:15] Chief Carly Conley: retention by having a take-home car? So what I'll say, this is, I think it helps. I think we've had a couple officers in the past few years look at other agencies that offer take-home cars, where I think it's our biggest assistance is recruitment. I mean, we are fortunate at our agency, most police officers that start working here, we don't leave unless they retire, but recruitment wise, everything we're seeing is it's huge, it's a huge recruitment thing. This generation really likes the take-home thing, you know, Androscoggin county right now, they're pretty much completely full, and they have take-home cars. State police, they're down, i think they have 350 officers, they're down only six, and in the interviews that we do with a lot of the new hires, that's one of the biggest things they talk about, and my net [18:11] Michael R. Roy: my final question would be, is there a chance we might be able to spread this over a couple of years, like, because again with a big hit to the budget being five plus million dollars, right, you know, if there's a way to kind of maybe spread it out a little bit to make it a little bit more [18:29] Chief Carly Conley: appetizing would be kind of. So we've looked at that, and i have sergeant brown here also, if he can be available, because he may be able to, he's really our expert, and he manages our fleet manager, and he does all the research, but and he may be able to expand on this, but one of the things, if you look at the average price right now in the pool system, is seventy six thousand dollars. With this, we're locked in at sixty five thousand dollars, so there's a savings there, and we can't guarantee that 's what It's going to be next year, and the problem with doing it over the course of three years, then you sort of stay stuck in that pool system of vehicles being driven 24 7, so it that's a challenge. There are some things we can do that we've discussed, and like I said, he may be able to expand on a little bit more. I think we may be able to get more time should we go this route out of these vehicles because they're not going to be as worn down out of patrol, and maybe delay getting new vehicles by being able to put those into CID, and the life of the vehicles I think are going to last longer. Good, yeah, I think the chief covered it, I mean the problem is if you delay it over the course of two or three years, you're not starting the program until the three year mark, so the first couple of years when you're starting the program, all you're doing is just adding a few more cars and a few more cars, so you are going to leave a little, alleviate a little bit of pressure, but you're still in a fleet program where cars are gonna get wear and tear, and then by the time you start that third year and you're in full swing, you've got those cars you've had for two or three years now that they 're fleet cars, so you're gonna start that cycle back over, so you're just kind of kicking the can down the road. Appreciate [20:22] Scott A. Harriman: that, thank you. Counselor Herman, thank you. I guess I have a similar question. So if we buy 65 cars all at once, then at some point we're going to have to replace 65 cars all at once, right? So I just wonder, I'm not as concerned about the upfront cost because it's going to be bonded anyway over several years. But if we were to phase this in over several years, it seems like when we get to the 10-year mark or so, we're not going to have another 65 vehicles to replace all at the same time. So I just wondered, would it make more sense to stagger it over a few years because of that? So [21:07] Chief Carly Conley: with the research that we've done, I don't believe that we're going to be dealing with buying 65 more cars, you know, at year six or seven. The vehicle replacement schedule that we're looking at is how we think it's gonna proceed based on, I to be honest, I think we're going to get more than what we're projecting as far as the lifespan of the vehicles, and we have a mix of vehicles, we have, we have patrol vehicles that are driven a little bit more frequently, and obviously our CID and admin packages are Not so I foresee or our estimations are between eight to ten a year starting in year eight. Okay yeah that makes sense with the [21:50] Scott A. Harriman: difference between patrol and other vehicles. I also wondered if we could go back to its page 14 I guess curbing the trend. Sorry I just got this just when we got here so I haven't had a lot of time to digest it but I'm wondering about the math on the left-hand side there if you could explain what's the [22:15] Chief Carly Conley: 31 annual growth. And so what we did is we went back five years I believe and looked at what our current fleet budget is and on average there's a 31 increase each year currently in the program that we have. So then we took where we're at this year and then moved it forward to FY 31 with that increase based on previous budgets and that's where we think we would be at five years it remaining the same status quo per se. Okay thank you. [22:53] Carl L. Sheline: Councillor Nagine [22:55] Joshua L. Nagine: Thank you Mr. Mayor. Thank you chief for their presentation and I have a few questions concerning I'd like to start just really quickly this is not completely off track but we had requested a presidential earmark for a Bearcat and some other equipment. And I know that was suspended due to like the freezes on the federal budget. I'm wondering if we're coming close to seeing that come through, do we know at all? [23:25] Chief Carly Conley: So we did just get an update on that and it looks like it has passed, but it has not been signed yet. So, but it's looking like we are gonna receive those. [23:36] Joshua L. Nagine: Okay, that's good. Thank you. The second question that I have and I think this is probably more for the fleet manager, but currently we have 20 cars. Is that correct? So [23:47] Chief Carly Conley: Yes, and no. We actually have 38 vehicles in our fleet right now. [23:53] Carl L. Sheline: I'm sorry. Can you say again? Did you say 38? Yes. [23:57] Chief Carly Conley: But 38 includes our parking enforcement vehicle includes our ACO our animal control vehicle MOTORCYCLE, TWO MOTORCYCLES, SOME OF THE OTHER. SAY THAT AGAIN. THOSE AREN'T OURS. I DIDN'T ACTUALLY INCLUDE THOSE. THOSE ARE THE FIRE DEPARTMENTS. WE HAVE CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW, I THINK I PUT IN THE ANSWERS TO COUNSELOR CHIDDUM, THE BREAKDOWN OF ALL OF OUR CRUISERS AND WHERE THEY'RE ALLOCATED. I THINK WE HAVE 16 OR 17 CRUISERS ACTUALLY UPFITTED IN and road ready we have a couple of cruisers right now that are in the upfitting process and the rest are administrative vehicles and these administrative vehicles include some of [24:45] Joshua L. Nagine: The ones I just mentioned, okay. And out of the, out of the 17 cruisers that we have, on average, how many of those are in maintenance mode versus on ready to go? On average, on average, I would [24:58] Chief Carly Conley: say we have 12 to 14 cars ready to go. Okay, perfect, that gives me kind of a good idea of [25:06] Joshua L. Nagine: operational readiness right now. How many admin cars are take-home vehicles? I believe it's only the chief and the deputy chief that have take-home vehicles at the moment for admin cars. Yes. Okay, and so this proposal, instead of being focused on patrol, crew, and crow, it would, it would expand to the entire department, am I correct on that? Yes. Okay, one of the things that kind of stands out is that we're having a difficult time getting patrol officers, I believe, and so, and I think crew is pretty impactful as far as like immediate response within the community, in order to both respond to crime and also to suppress crime, and also crow as well. And so I'm wondering, was there any consideration to only keeping this open to patrol, crow, and crew, as opposed to expanding it to the full department and keeping, in keeping basically a pool fleet for admin staffs in CID? No, we hadn't really looked [26:16] Chief Carly Conley: into that so if you look if you look around the state it's actually flipped some agencies do sort of like a take home just for the admin and cid and for us we felt it was important to have patrol have that option you know that 's the most important for us as far as response and visibility but you know we see a value in our detectives too there's there's they're often called in for scenes called in you know to handle cases and obviously their supervisors and admin as well have to be called in at times. That makes sense. The next question [26:55] Joshua L. Nagine: would be as far as distance from the station, do we have an idea of, you know, one of the things I was thinking about was if you live 15 miles from the station, for instance, you know, you know, my first thought was like if you're a Lewiston resident, it would be great to give only the Lewiston residence vehicles, but then, you know, if you live in Sabbatist, if you live in Auburn, you're still close enough to the department, whereas if you're living, if you're driving 35 miles each way to get to work, that's I think it's a lot more wear and tear on the vehicle, and already there's operational readiness isn't the same, and you're still gonna like whether you're driving 25 minutes to work in an emergency or 20 minutes to work in an emergency or you know don't like, so I just as a question like is there any thought about limiting the [27:44] Chief Carly Conley: radius? So we currently have a radius as far as where you can live, and I believe it's 25 miles as far as to each you know to the end to the line depending on you know whether you're leaving from Lisbon or headed towards Auburn, and there has been some we haven't landed on a complete decision but there's been some conversations about that, some of the other studies that we've looked at have allowed people to live within the county or allow people to you know live beyond the county, that's definitely things [28:17] Joshua L. Nagine: that we're we're talking about. Okay, and I know that because of the way that the shifts are set up and we if we have limited availability for vehicles, sometimes we do run into a situation where officers are coming to work and there could possibly not be a car ready for them to take. [28:34] Chief Carly Conley: That does happen, correct? Yeah, I would say that the biggest issue with that is details. Last year, I mean I'm sure most of you are aware of the projects going on Main Street, and I mean we just we had a summer where it was very busy, and there were several times where we had to say we'd have to double officers up the patrol officers, and there were several times where we had to say we can't provide the detail, which obviously that's revenue that can come into the city, but we weren't we just didn't have the cruisers available for it. Okay, yeah, those were basically [29:07] Joshua L. Nagine: my questions. One of the one of my thoughts was you know maybe we start with like one shift for patrol, but I don't know if that actually works, and so you know my thought would be you know like maybe we give everybody on third shift on patrol a take-home vehicle, and then you know we see how that works, and then maybe either phase it in, because one of the challenges that I have with bonding this money is like I understand that like yeah we're bonding the money so THEREFORE IT'S NOT COMING OUT OF THE GENERAL BUDGET BUT WE ARE PAYING INTEREST ON IT, SO IF WE TAKE A LARGE HIT UH FOR A LOT OF CARS ALL AT ONCE AND THEN FIND OUT THAT THERE'S ISSUES WITH THE PROGRAM LIKE WE'VE ALREADY WE'RE ALL IN RIGHT, SO YOU KNOW THAT'S JUST A THOUGHT FOR MYSELF, BUT I DO LIKE THE IDEA FOR SURE, UM I JUST THINK THERE'S A THERE'S IT'S A BIG NUMBER. [29:55] Carl L. Sheline: Yeah, I understand that. It's a thank you, Counselor. I understand it's a big number. I think if we try to piecemeal it, we will have all these other considerations about how do we, you know, all these, you know, how do we do it halfway. I think if we're going to do it, we should just do it. You know, we know it works because other departments are using it, correct? Doesn't Aso and Sharon Sheriff's Office have take-home vehicles for all their officers? Yes. Okay, thank you. We have a couple of minutes left for questions before we move to -- hello, Councillor -- Councillor Chittim and then Councillor Martel. [30:30] David B. Chittim: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I apologize for being late. And you may have addressed this earlier in your comments, Chief, but one of my questions -- or the only question I have at this point is when you did your financial analysis, did you include, as Councillor Nagine alluded to, the cost value of money? We have to pay interest on money that we borrowed to purchase what was were those interest payments included in your analysis of savings? They were not. Okay, thank you. Councillor Martel. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. [30:59] Bret Martel: Thank you for the presentation. I'm not sure if this is for the sergeant or the chief, but could you guys expand a little bit on just the operational and public safety benefits that this would provide that may not be, it might be in addition to the pool vehicles and having a, you had mentioned the mass shooting response. Are there any other scenarios that you can elaborate on that could be beneficial from a public safety point of view, not just recruitment or the savings, but that might give you the ability to better serve the public that you don't [31:38] Chief Carly Conley: have currently with a pool system? Certainly. So I think visibility in and of itself deters crime. I think that the visibility of cruisers, more cruisers in the city, you know, whether they're leaving work or, you know, heading into work, and I think given that you have an officer who's leaving work and in his cruiser and it's equipped and ready to go, he's able to, if something happens in front of him, address it immediately. So I think [32:11] Bret Martel: You know, that would be the biggest thing, and so I'm just kind of brainstorming here because we need to fill these vacancies, and public safety is how we're gonna drive economic development and all the other needs of the city right now. So I consider this to be important to see those positions filled, and I'm just brainstorming a couple different ways for recruitment, and I imagine one would be a spike in pay raise, but that just comes as a hundred percent expense to the city, right, that just to pay More is going to cost us more. I'm seeing about a hundred thousand dollars a year savings. I know it's over time to drive recruitment, so to me it seems like a bit of a no-brainer. Yes, it's a big money out initially, but if the city is saving a hundred thousand dollars a year and it's going to help drive recruitment, that just seems like a double bonus for me, so I'm inclined to support this. Thank [33:09] Carl L. Sheline: You counselors, thank you. Have a quick final thought, counselor Herman. We are over time, I mean I don't [33:19] Scott A. Harriman: Know if it'll be quick, but I did just receive this 30 minutes ago. I just had a question on the mileage cost comparison, it that's page 12 on the slide deck. You say currently you have about 800 000 miles a year driven, and then you think with the take-home program that'll increase just to 900 000. I was wondering if you have an idea of the average distance that an average employee lives from the station, because if you take a hundred thousand out, divide it by 65 cars, and then divide that by 52 weeks That's only, that's only 30 miles a week, so that's only like a three mile commute, and I don't know if that is that the average commute of an average officer, or is it more than that [34:10] Chief Carly Conley: Did the research on this, so he can probably explain to you that was just a Number that I had pulled from other studies, seeing on gauging on what their increase was. I just used that as a rough estimate. We, I don't know exactly if we used $800,000, and that was an approximate one based on the mileage of some of our cars over the last few years. And then I used the percentage increase on their studies and just referenced it on ours, and it came up to about $100,000. I didn't account for the size of the agencies. I didn't necessarily account for the size of how many cars they had, so that, again, was a rough estimate of $100,000. You're probably not wrong by saying it could be closer to 150,000, it could be more, it again just using very generic numbers from the studies that I was able [35:03] Carl L. Sheline: To locate online, okay, thanks. If counselors have further questions, we can [35:09] Chief Carly Conley: email you. Correct, chief. Certainly, feel free to reach out and we can share this presentation by email. I know it was a lot to digest in a small time frame tonight, so feel free to reach out. Yeah, and that would be great if you could [35:23] Carl L. Sheline: send us to that, to us. We'd be most appreciative. Thank you both. Madam Clerk, I think we're heading into an executive session to discuss the acquisition or disposition of real estate of which the premature disclosure of the information would prejudice the competitive marketing position of the city. Requested action to enter into an executive session pursuant to Main Revised Statutes Annotated Title 1 Section 405 6c to discuss the acquisition or disposition of real estate of which the premature disclosure of the information would prejudice the competitive bargaining position of the city I have a motion please so move Councilor Chittenden second by who's taking that I'm sorry all right councillor Najee thank you madam clerk please call the vote councillor from Ward 2 yes Ward 3 yes Ward 4 yes Ward 6 yes. We are heading into executive session, but we'll be back for the regular meeting after that. Hello and welcome to our Tuesday. If I can have it quiet, please, that'd be great. Yeah, everyone needs to be quiet, including you, whoever that was. Listen, thank you so much for coming to our Tuesday evening council meeting. We're gonna kick things off at the Pledge of Allegiance. We have Captain Kaye here from the Fire Department who will lead us. Thank you very much, Captain. We appreciate you being here. A couple of things. We're going to obviously work through this meeting as efficiently as possible. We need to keep these aisles open. Administrator Kenrath, one aisle was here and then what? One aisle in the back? Is that correct? Correct. Across the back. Okay. So we do have overflow seating, or sorry, overflow room right outside. The TV is running so you'll be able to watch us and we'll, once we get to public comment, we'll kind of find a way to coordinate all that. Yeah, does that make sense to everyone? And then we need to have it quiet in here, so if you need to talk, you know, you can just text each other, so there's that, or you can head out to the, to the hall and converse out there. All right, did I miss anything, Madam Clerk or Administrator Kainrath? Okay. Madam Clerk, I do believe we're ready to begin. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. All roll call votes for this meeting will Begin with the council of Ward 2, and I understand we have minutes. You do the acceptance of the minutes of the January 5th and January 8th meetings. May I have a motion, please? So moved, Councillor Chittim. Second saying by Councillor Nagine. Madam Clerk, please call the vote. Council from Ward 2, yes. Ward 3, [1:22:59] Carl L. Sheline: yes. Yes. We are now up to public comment period. Any member of the public may make comments regarding issues pertaining to Lewiston City Government. This period is reserved for non agenda items. Public comment is also allowed during individual agenda items. Public comment is limited to three minutes per person. Please state your name for the record, and please indicate if you're a Lewiston resident. Because this is the business meeting of the city council, all questions should be directed to the mayor, who will ask staff to follow up at a future time. It is illegal for the city council to allow comments related to personnel matters. All personnel complaints should be made directly to the city administration office. Before you begin, so during public comment, if I can, if we can continue to have it quiet here, be respectful to the speaker, and yeah, there we go. Please continue, Pauline. Goodness, I'm a resident [1:23:55] Public commenter: of Lewiston. I'm here like I was two years ago to basically tell the City Council and city administration exactly what is going on in this city and the opinion that most residents have of what's going on in the city of Lewiston. One, you all pride yourself and you keep saying transparency. That's a bunch of crap. This is the most untransparent city government that has occurred in at least four or five years. All of a sudden we no longer put up the city administrator or the deputy city administrators contract on the on the internet. It's no longer on the city website. It was on the city website up until Heather Hunter and Brian O'Malley became city administrator and deputy city administrator. Why is that? We're paying these salaries. We have a right to know what their benefits are and what their contract is as far as salary, etc. Second thing is the city is operating very much lack of transparency, unethical, and when I say unethical, there are a number. We have two city councils that have been censored by fellow members for conduct that basically should have been considered. They were using an app to have conversations between themselves and another city employee. We have a councillor who approved expenditures for an organization of which his wife was a officer in that nonprofit. We have city councillors that are having conversations outside of chambers among other councillors. There was a big commotion when we had the gang of four in which four city councillors went out for a beer at the cage after a council meeting. And there were several other people there, including at this point a present city councillor. That is still going on, except they're smart. They're no longer communicating via text message or email. They're doing things by going to businesses and homes and telling other councillors, This is what we're going to do, and this is how we're going to vote. We also have a city mayor and city councillor who have browbeated city employees. They have done things behind closed doors that the public is unaware of. It's actually an embarrassment to the city and city residents. We're not being told a whole lot of what's going on. We're being lectured by city councilors being told you don't need to worry about the main community fund that distributed money to non-profits. I think the comment made at the council meeting was, I've been educated, let's drop it. There's no need. You don't need to hear about it. We have a mayor and city councilors that are telling other city councilors you don't need to go to- That's time. I have one last comment. [1:26:59] Carl L. Sheline: We have that is time. Thank you. We're moving three with your rules. I'm like three minutes. Everyone gets three minutes. Can you please step aside so we can have the next comment? I don't agree. I agree, Counselor. Yes, we have a three minute time limit. Yeah, I understand, or thank you, next person, please be mindful that you have three minutes. Yes. Can you hear me? [1:27:27] Justin Young: Well, my name is Justin Young. I'm a Marine Corps veteran and I'm a resident of Auburn and I feel like it was my civic duty to speak here tonight and I'd like to focus my attention on the Ward 5 city council member that's going to be decided tonight. [1:27:43] Carl L. Sheline: That's going to be a public comment during that agenda item so you can't speak on that now. Okay. Yeah, so we're just stay a little bit longer, you'll be able to talk about it then. [1:27:54] Justin Young: Okay, well I'll speak about what else I was going to talk about, but I think, I think, importantly, issues across the city, including Auburn as well, I think that there are a lot of issues that we're pretending are political issues, but in reality they're not left or right, they're not conservative or liberal, they're not Republican or Democrat. There are issues that I believe that should be at the forefront of each and every one of your decision-making, and that is what is best for the residents of Maine, and specifically good policy. Good policy is seemingly left the ideals or the ideas of politicians today, and I think that going forward, I think it would be very important that each and every one of you, especially us as citizens, focus on what is going to be best for Maine and what is going to be best for the citizens within it, not what is best for your political party or what is going to favor your agenda in the future, and that's all I have to say, so I appreciate your time. [1:28:54] Carl L. Sheline: There's no, there's no clapping here, thank you, or booing either, please continue with public comment, Mr. Mayor, before I speak, the time is not on the screen behind you as it traditionally is, I'll let you know when you're running out of time, good sir. Please continue. Okay, if you want to go against practice, okay, whatever, would it be the first time again, as Pauline was saying, sorry, thank you, the IT guy in the back, Matt Rory Ward six, so we've had two meetings this far this year, clearly the city attorneys does not understand what the word shall means with within in contracts and legalese, and not to mention the interpretation that interpretation we got concerning the charter, and again this is all I've said this for god four five going on five years now, again the lack of transparency, the accountability of the government to its residents, the interpretation that we got, I again, well then former council peas at the special meeting, apparently he's changed his mind, because back in 2022 he was all in favor of withdrawing the warrant for the charter commission, and we wouldn't be in this, a lot of these problems that we've faced in the last few months regarding the charter, council seats, school committee seats, is due to the lack of due diligence from city staff not including change the Charter Review Committee's report to the council included changing that provision from next municipal election to term which would negated the whole point of the special meeting for three hours of you guys going around and around in circles again this is on due diligence and the city attorney not understanding the charter review campaign because everything he said [Abdul Qadir Adan: has] no basis council does not decide the recommendations that go to the referendum that is the whole point of the charter review committee as outlined in the last 46 years in the city charter thank you further public comment how [1:31:34] David Jones: are we doing this evening my name is David Jones. I live in Falmouth, Maine. I'm here tonight to let you know that we created a petition to launch an investigation by Pam Bondi and the Department of Justice to find out what has happened with the money that was given to the people for the victims fund. Now there's about $1.9 million that we found out has gone to NGOs and other sources and we want to find out the back story on each one of those NGOs. I think I asked when I was here before that you launch your own investigation. I think it's important. I think the people of Lewiston want to see this. Now, we've had over 3,000 people, over 3,000 people, sign this petition that they want to know what is going on. And I hear that Marine, he comes in. I'm so glad that he fought for our country, you know, and stood up for this. but we have to have we have to know that the people that represent us are real and they really do have our back I'm not seeing it and I'm talking to people in the halls all the time and they feel the same way so I want to read a couple of a couple of comments that I got you know from the petition we are this is from Angela I donated a considerable amount of money and I had and had I known this money was going to be misused or would have donated I would have donated directly to families with all the fraud waste and abuse from NGOs this angers me to the core that this money was misused another guy David no relation the lawlessness and corruption in this state and the city of Lewiston needs to end and this is the newest this is the lowest form a committee trusted with working people's donations not giving every penny to the victims and surviving family is utterly despicable every person on that committee should be arrested now we don't know who it was and we don't know what was going on But these are comments that we're receiving for people. Roberta victims deserve justice. John turning tragedy into a black box for millions of dollars is how you destroy public trust. Public trust is what it's all about. Maine is sliding into a low trust state because accountability is missing. Investigate the funds, release the records, and stop treating transparency as an option. So you know, you hear it, you've you heard these other people speaking to you know, why is it that this body is not doing everything they can to find out where that money is? It makes no sense to me. It makes no sense to the general public. And I would ask, again, that each and every one of you get up in the morning, look yourself in the mirror, and say, am I doing right by the people that I represent? That's all I have to say. [1:34:35] Carl L. Sheline: Further public comment? Public comment? [1:34:45] Zafra Sa'id Issa: Hi, my name is Zafra Sa'id Issa from WART number two. I just wanna say, last Thursday, we had a community listening session at IFCA community, and I was very happy to see different community members coming in. It's great to have a relationship with the city and the community where they can have conversations directly, because we don't get to see each other in the community. So that was a great opportunity to meet with each other. And another thing I just want to say is we're going through a very traumatic events these days from the pandemic time when we were locked up at home being scared that the virus was going to spread to the mass shooting where we were all locked up in fear that the mass shooter was going to come get us. Everybody in the lewiston resident that lives here was scared and all surrounding areas as well. This narrative that they are saying about NGOs, it's not NGOs, is ethnic community-based organizations who serve communities and residents here in Lewiston. So this narrative really have to stop that nine NGOs know they are ethnic community -based organizations that serve people who were traumatized. And now, again, people are locked up in their houses, afraid to come out because of a narrative that's been politicized. It became very political. And some people have not come out and have supported us. But I really would like to see companies to show a solidarity, because right now, anybody who supports immigrants is politicized. It's becoming very polarized, and I would like for us to be strong again, like how we came all together during mass shooting at the church and celebrated and everybody said Lewiston Strong. I would like that type of solidarity to see all of us together like that. I hope we can overcome this. Thank you. [1:37:07] Carl L. Sheline: you further public comment public comment is now closed administrator Kainrath I believe you have a report right yes thank you mr. mayor appreciate [1:37:18] Bryan Kaenrath: it quick update we are moving through the early stages of our fiscal year 27 budget process Department budget requests were due to us by January 15th so we're not going to begin the process of meeting with departments coming through these budgets and developing the proposed FY 27 budget which will be presented here in march per the city charter i have a number of staff updates i want to welcome some new employees to our ranks starting with kendra wood who's a new customer service specialist in our finance department. We have three new firefighters, Thomas Hunter, Marcus Gaudet, and Ryan Long, so welcome to all of them to our fire department. A few retirements, some of these are long-term employees also, Roger Parity, water sewer meter expert in our public works department, James Ward, our GS manager in our public works department, Lester Perry, a highway worker also at public works. Then we have a number of promotions also, Richard Lutz was promoted to mechanic in our public works department, Kate and Tozer, youth aid detective at PD, Brian Burgoyne promoted to sergeant at PD, Michael Dumond, lieutenant, PD, and Zachary Provost promoted to sergeant at PD, so congrats to all of them, wish them the best of luck in their new positions here with the city, and of course thank them for all of their years of service. We just heard a bit of this from public comment, but I want to thank everyone who came out not only to the Great Falls Forum to join Chief Connolly last Thursday, but also at Ifka Community Services. It was a really great turnout. Thank you to everyone for being there, really appreciate the dialogue, really appreciate the great attendance, and we'll be doing more of these, I hope, in the near future. I think it's really important for us to get out into the community to receive this feedback, to show up when we say we're going to show up. I thought it was a really great event and look forward to more dialogue and collaboration in the future, so thank you for that. City reval process, I've MENTIONED THIS BUT WE HAVE AN INSERT IT'S A TWO-PAGE FRONT AND BACK INSERT TALKING ABOUT THE REVAL PROCESS WHY IT'S HAPPENING AND WHAT RESIDENTS AND PROPERTY TAXPAYERS MAY EXPECT. THAT'S GOING OUT INTO ALL OF THE PROPERTY TAX BILLS THE NEXT ROUND AS WELL AS WATER AND SEWER BILLS. WE'RE TRYING TO GET something in front of everyone as best we can before these new assessments do land in the april to may time frame. lastly i just want to mention we have revamped and brought back the employee of the month program in our city staff development category. our first recipient for january was shelly got about in our planning and code enforcement department. so congrats to shelly and we'll be doing this monthly in the future. thank you administrator kenra. thank you very [1:40:09] Carl L. Sheline: much for your service madam clerk. i think we're ready to start our agenda based on the attendance unless there's strong objection from the council i would like to move to move nine. i move item nine up to now. i [1:40:30] David B. Chittim: think the council is in agreement with that. thank [1:40:35] Carl L. Sheline: you counselors madam clerk i'm number nine. thank you mr mayor. item nine appointment to fill the current vacancy in the ward five city council position. there are a couple items for requested action. The first item is to review the applications submitted for the Ward 5 City Council vacancy and to determine a course of action Thank you. So You know, I want to acknowledge for everyone here. We're kind of in uncharted territory. So you know, my plan is to Talk amongst ourselves develop some sort of a process and then proceed with that process as orderly as possible. WHAT I SUGGEST TO THE COUNCIL IS THE APPLICANTS WHO ARE HERE ALLOW THEM TO ADDRESS THE COUNCIL FOR THREE TO FIVE MINUTES, AND THEN ASK QUESTIONS, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, DELIBERATE, DISCUSS AMONGST OURSELVES, HEAD TO PUBLIC COMMENT, AND THEN BACK TO US FOR A VOTE, BUT THAT'S HOW I'M ENVISIONING THINGS, BUT, YES, FEEDBACK ON THOSE IDEAS. COUNCILOR CHIDDUM, YES. [1:41:40] David B. Chittim: Mr. Mayor, thank you. I certainly agree we're in uncharted territory here. There is a debate. I think that the council working out the details of the process, which is a completely foreign process to us, is going to be messy. We have been charged with being dysfunctional, being done unorganized, not knowing what we're doing. This is going to demonstrate that in spades. The other option to us is to vote to go into executive session to discuss this privately. The optics there are horrible as well because the public perception is definitely going to be that we're cooking the books behind the scene. So we're faced with an untenable situation here. I would beg that the audience be patient with us as we try and muddle our way through figuring out how we seven people are going to replace the 7,000 people of ward five to seat a counselor up here in the vacant seat. So please bear with us and understand that we are trying to do the best that we can. I appreciate that. Thank [1:42:42] Carl L. Sheline: you very much. Further thoughts from counselors on the process forward. Counselor Martel. [1:42:51] Bret Martel: Absolutely not. We do it in front of the public. This council has enough integrity and transparency issues that I will not suggest or vote for running to the back room. We'll do this right here where [1:43:01] Michael R. Roy: everybody can see. Councillor Roy. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. In full transparency, I do work with one of the candidates that we are going to be voting on tonight. I work within the agency. We do not work together, but I feel that I can make an unbiased opinion to decide who the best candidate is in this circumstance. [1:43:29] Carl L. Sheline: Further comments from councillors about the process. Councilor in aging. Yes. [1:43:35] Joshua L. Nagine: Thank you. Mr. Mayor, just to reiterate the process that's in front of us should not have been in front of us. The error, which was a clerical error, that would have changed 206 C and 206 D of the Charter would have allowed for a election, special election, to be held. Unfortunately it is the opinion of Corporation Council that we must or may appoint and the mayor must appoint this position. So you're going to watch us create a process in this space right now that did not exist before. I apologize for how this is going to look. It's going to be ugly for sure. Normally when you vote you don't have a three minute conversation beforehand and we're going to hear a good 150 of those. So thank you all for coming out though. [1:44:34] Carl L. Sheline: Thank you Councilor. yes, Councilor Herman. Thank you. Well I wonder, so I echo the concerns [1:44:40] Scott A. Harriman: Of Councillor Nagine, so that the Charter Review Committee in their report included changes to sections 2.06 C and D of the Charter, which would have replaced the language that says the next regularly scheduled election or regular municipal election with the end of the term. The heading of the agenda item that the council voted on at the time also included those changes, but then the body of that, due to somebody not copying and pasting, didn't include those changes. So we really should not be in this position, and now that we've had a little more time, more than 15 minutes, to think about it, I wonder if there's any appetite on the council to have a special election, to get another legal opinion. I realize our attorney had to produce an opinion very quickly back a couple weeks ago, and I just wonder if there's any appetite on the council for having a special election as the charter intends, and which would be the most democratic way to fill this position. [1:45:52] Carl L. Sheline: Councillor Chittim, yes. [1:45:54] David B. Chittim: Thank you, Councillor Harriman. I initially proposed that we, quote, do the right thing. I was castigated for that. That. The problem with entertaining the thought of having a special election now, which I think we all feel is the most democratic and fairest thing to do, is that if we do that, we have already eaten into the 30-day allowance that the council has to make an appointment. If we do go down the special election road, that 30-day window is gone, and there will be a very strong opportunity for anyone to argue that the remaining provision of that aspect of the charter be honored, and that the mayor would then have the sole authority to appoint a counselor to ward 5. If there's anything worse than having seven people select a representative for ward 5, it's having one person select a representative for ward 5. So as much as I am encouraged by Councillor Harriman's thoughts that we should do the right thing and call for a special election, I think we're too far down the road of 206 C and D to permit that to happen, because I suspect very strongly that what would happen is that the mayor would then have the ultimate decision as to who would sit to my right. So thank you, Councillor Harriman, but I think the horses left the barn. It's up to us in a future meeting to shut the door, but right now we're in and It's a very unfortunate and untenable position where no decision that we make up here tonight or in the very near future is going to go unpunished by a segment of this population, and that I very much regret. [1:47:37] Carl L. Sheline: Counselors, I appreciate us trying to rehash the past in some way. We were advised that a special election would be violating the charter. We even took a vote on it last meeting. I think the path is set before us. I definitely agree with everyone that special election would have been preferable. But that's not the hand that was dealt us. I would like to bring the conversation back to process. Does any member of the council have strong objection objections to having The applicants speak now an opportunity to ask questions and then go from there. Do we want to give the applicants three or five minutes? [1:48:21] David B. Chittim: Councillor Chittim. Mr. Mayor, I suggest that we give each applicant five minutes in alphabetical order by last name. [1:48:27] Carl L. Sheline: Sounds agreeable to me. Councillors, does that sound okay? Madam Clerk, it does appear that you have put these names in alphabetical order by last name, is that correct? Yes, sir. Excellent. So I think, Councillors, we should let them speak for five minutes if they so choose to speak that long and then after that time we will be able to ask questions which would not eat into their to their five minutes does that make sense mr. Adam Buckley have you joined us this evening excellent yeah I guess let's take a seat right up here yep step right up sir and then hopefully they are turning on the mics again for us do we have a five minute timer deputy administrator well we'll do three and then we'll we'll stop at two okay we have a plan please introduce yourself and yes start thank you yes hello good evening mayor chalene [1:49:45] Adam Buckley: counselors everybody My name is Adam Buckley, and I'm a resident of Ward five Father for and I work full-time as a club manager Planet Fitness and all maybe just move the mic a little closer to you move that out of the way a Father for a veteran of the United States military the Army to be exact, I'm honored to apply for this seat and serve our community with the same dedication I had serving our great nation. Early on in my time in the Army, seven core values were instilled in myself, and to this day are still a huge part of my life. Those are loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity, and personal courage. The Army likes to use acronyms, so when you put those together, it spells leadership. I'm looking to bring my dedicated service, leadership experience, and discipline to this council. Fully supporting key public safety initiatives, a cleaner downtown, family-focused policies, our great public library that my kids love so much, and one of the more serious issues in our city housing and then we need for more affordable housing I share your commitments to veterans and recovery like you councilman Roy community events like council councillor long champs youth and families like councillor Martel sustainable growth like councillor Chittum and a revitalization AS THE ONLY VETERAN APPLICANT, I WOULD ADD A UNIQUE VOICE TO COLLABORATIVE SOLUTIONS. IN CLOSING, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. I WOULD BE GRATEFUL FOR YOUR VOTE TO FILL THIS VACANCY AND HIT THE GROUND RUNNING REPRESENTING BOARD FIVE AND OUR CITY. THANK YOU. [1:51:57] Carl L. Sheline: THANK YOU. I GUESS I'LL START OFF WITH THE FIRST QUESTION. FORGIVE ME IF YOU SAID IT. WHAT DID YOU DO IN THE ORGANIZATION? [1:52:06] Adam Buckley: Army originally as part of the US Army Corps of Engineers serving with the 133rd engineering battalion in the 136th engineer company out of Lewiston in Skowhegan during my 16 years in the army also performed 800 military services funeral services throughout the state of Maine to include high-profile KIA repatriated remains and two governor's inaugurations thank you for the [1:52:33] Carl L. Sheline: questions for mr. Buckley [1:52:37] Michael R. Roy: councillor Martel yes first of all thank you for [1:52:40] Bret Martel: your service I didn't really do anything you spoke about the library what are your recommendations and plans would you like to see continue down there what's going well what would you like to see improved and changed as a former [1:52:53] Adam Buckley: employee at the library definitely safety would be my number one thing for the library I do know that a lot of the stuff that happens in that library I don't want my kids to see or have to walk through and see it that and maybe some additional funding for those safety upgrades [1:53:18] David B. Chittim: councillor Chittum Thank You mr. Buckley a question about finances we have far more need for tax revenue than we have tax revenue how do you approach resolving the dichotomy between what we need and what we can afford try [1:53:38] Adam Buckley: to bring up policies that would definitely bring in businesses. I know the city just lost its opportunity on a data center, which would have brought a lot of revenue in. So finding ways to do that, between cutting some red tape for small businesses to provide growth or whatnot, but also definitely looking at the city budgets and seeing is this something we really need. Like for example, like I think the whole police take-home program, I think it's a need, thank [1:54:09] Michael R. Roy: you counselor Roy. Thank you Mr. Mayor. Thank you for your service, appreciate everything you've done. One of the questions I have, seeing you have some leadership skills and you are in management at an agent corporation right now, do you have budgeting skills? Are you, is that something that you do fluently [1:54:31] Adam Buckley: so I used to manage a 1.5 million dollar budget for the funeral honors program for the state of [1:54:37] Carl L. Sheline: Maine. All right, thank you more questions for Mr. Buckley? Going once. I guess that's it. I appreciate the opportunity, thank you. Well one second counselor should have, did you have a thank [1:54:59] David B. Chittim: you Mr. Mayor. Again a process, do we want to give the public an opportunity to ask questions of each individual applicant, or do we want to have the public make their comments during the public comment for this item? I would strongly recommend that the [1:55:14] Carl L. Sheline: public can weigh in during public comment. Thank you Mr. Buckley. Or councillor Naging, did you have something? I was just going to say I [1:55:24] Joshua L. Nagine: would agree with that, and also the process in which you apply for a councillor position in a five-day window doesn't really give people an opportunity to get to know anybody very well. I was going to call you when I got your email and unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity to, so we haven't actually spoken until right now, you know, and I think that's really challenging for a lot of people in the community because generally speaking we have a run-up to an election, people get to know a candidate and we base votes off that, you know, and so I apologize that it, this is such an awkward way to propose for taking the seat, but I appreciate you applying. Oh thank [1:56:07] Adam Buckley: you and I am an open book, just ask me anything. Well thank you very much Mr. [1:56:13] Carl L. Sheline: Buckley, thank you for the opportunity. Don't go far. Do we have a Nicole Johnson here? Please join us Miss Johnson, thank you so much, we're [1:56:36] Nicole Johnson: Please start when you're ready. Sure, my name is Nicole Johnson. I'm a resident, Ward Five. I don't have like a large speech prepared, you know. It's kind of last minute being asked to speak, but I have lived and worked in this community for, myself, sorry, can you just move [1:56:53] Carl L. Sheline: the mic a little closer to you for our folks at home and in the home. I've lived and worked [1:56:57] Nicole Johnson: in this community for much of my life. Run for City Council is something that I have been considering for several years, but I missed the application deadline for this last term. The reason I'm running for City Council is because I believe civic duty is something that you do, not just something that you talk about, and I want to be part of the change I hope to see in Lewiston. Because of that, I'm stepping up because too often I felt, I haven't felt fully represented in my own city. Well, I don't come from a political background. I see that as a strength. I'm raising my family here. I live the day-to-day realities of this community, and I care deeply about the direction of our city is heading. I'm committed to listening first, thinking critically, welcoming different viewpoints, and making thoughtful, practical decisions that strengthen our neighborhoods and benefit our community as a whole. [1:57:45] Carl L. Sheline: Thank you very much. If you're comfortable sharing, can you tell us what you do for work or prior experience or industry? [1:57:53] Nicole Johnson: Even, yeah, I mean, I work at Main Solar in Freeport. I've been there for the last six years. Before that, I've worked in a couple different jobs, banking, I work at TD Bank right over here for many years. Before that, thank you very much. Councillor Roy. Thank you, Mr. [1:58:09] Michael R. Roy: Mayor. Nice to meet you. This, I hate to put you on the spot, but we don't have a whole lot of time. If you had to pick one of the major problems in this city, what would you pick? I [1:58:24] Nicole Johnson: mean that, you know, looking at the current climate right now, it's, you know, protecting our immigrant [1:58:29] Carl L. Sheline: population. Thank you for your answer, Councilor [1:58:35] David B. Chittim: Chiddom. Yes, thank you, Miss Johnson, full disclosure, I've spoken with you and all of the other candidates except Mr. Buckley. I tried, we tried, but didn't make the connection. So we have spoken before. You mentioned during your brief comments that you'd like to see changes in the city. Can you elaborate on that? I mean, you know [1:58:53] Nicole Johnson: THERE'S A LOT UH I DRIVE THROUGH THIS CITY EVERY DAY I SEE THE PEOPLE WALKING DOWN THE streets i you know it's not lost on any of us i think the challenges that we have the there's a huge addiction crisis and the need to clean up our streets i don't have all the answers but i want the opportunity to work with my or the fellow counselors to try to find those solutions [1:59:13] David B. Chittim: thank you if you did all have all the answers you'd be sitting here because we all have the answers you indicate that you don't feel that as a resident of ward 5 you've been [1:59:25] Nicole Johnson: been fully represented can you elaborate on that I mean the people that I've seen in this because it not necessarily in my word but in some of the wards they don't I haven't seen a lot of the viewpoints and stuff that I share or things that are that I've seen worked on are things that I think are the most important [1:59:46] Carl L. Sheline: thank you very much further questions from counselors I guess we're set for now thank you very much for joining us mr. Johnson Karen and Majora's Collins please come join us please proceed when you're ready if you probably need [2:00:34] Public commenter: move the mic closer to you thank you good evening mayor chalene and members of the lewiston city council thank you for your service to lewiston and for your efforts in conducting this process under difficult circumstances like many of you perhaps even all of you i believe this decision is best left in the hands of the voters and i fully support a special election in ward 5. stemming from the same place i would encourage you when you do eventually go to public comment to prioritize the voices of the people who will be represented by whoever is appointed this evening and give Ward 5 voters and residents first priority to speak. Thank you as well to my fellow applicants for your desire to serve the city and most of all thank you so much to the people who came out tonight to make their voices heard despite the cold and the danger. My name is Kiernan and Majerus Collins. I'm a lawyer here in Lewiston. Before I talk about my qualifications and what I hope to bring to the city council, let me take a moment to tell you about my day. This morning, I worked with a young man who fled his home country after violent attacks and death threats from his government because he dared to object to corruption. He is asking the United States to follow the law and grant him asylum. Later, I received a frantic call from a family member of a woman in Lewiston abducted this afternoon by unidentified men with guns. She has broken no laws in her many years in our community, but as of this evening, her children still have no idea what has happened to her. And just before this meeting, I advised a man who told me ICE was looking for him in Lewiston despite his compliance with immigration law and operation of a successful small business in our city. Now I am here carrying their stories and so many more. Our city is in a moment of crisis, and we must rise to the occasion together. As a lawyer serving our city's most vulnerable, I am ready and able to meet this moment. Hopefully this time of danger will eventually pass, and when it does, Lewiston will still face many of the same challenges we have had, we have, we have faced since I first came here to attend Bates College in 2014. We will face the challenge of crime and gun violence and drug addiction. We will face the challenge of responsible budgeting at a time when Lewiston residents are struggling with affordability. And we will face the challenge of economic development, of finding ways to make it easier to open and grow a business in our community. I am ready and able to meet these challenges and to do so in a spirit of collaboration and cooperation. operation. Before law school, I worked in the Androscoggin County District Attorney's Office, and during my time at Boston University School of Law, I worked as a student prosecutor on drug and gun cases in greater Boston. After law school, I worked as a law clerk to the Honorable Stephanie Seymour of the United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit, where I handled complex federal criminal appeals. The opinions I helped draft are now binding law across a large portion of the country. These experiences, along with my current work as an attorney, give me a useful and nuanced perspective on the issue of crime, and public safety will be my number one priority as a City Councilor. Together, with all stakeholders represented, we can and will make Lewiston a safer place to live for everyone. I know the City Council is about to enter budget season, when the City must balance supporting public services with keeping taxes as low as possible. I am familiar with this work, too, having previously gone through two budgets as a member of the Lewiston School Committee and two budgets as a member of the Androscoggin County Budget Committee. In what would be my fifth budget season, I will bring that experience to bear in working with you all to craft a fiscally responsible budget for our city. The task of crafting such a budget will be easier in the years to come if we grow our tax base now. I am a small business owner in our downtown, but I also have a growing number of legal clients who are current or future business owners. I understand the challenges involved in getting a business off the ground and of growing it over time. As a city councilor, I want to work on making it easier for entrepreneurs to start businesses in Lewiston, strengthening our local economy, creating jobs, and reducing the tax burden on seniors and working families. I appreciate you taking the time to listen to me tonight, and I look forward to the opportunity to work with each one of you to bring Lewiston together and to move our city forward thank [2:05:15] Carl L. Sheline: you questions for mr. mr. Collins or mr. Majerus Collins the jurors Collins yeah thank you yes questions for mr. Majerus Collins [2:05:26] David B. Chittim: councillor Chittum Thank You mr. mayor mr. Majerus Collins first of all I'd like to thank you for your work on behalf of the immigrant community it's valuable work and that leads to my first question is how will you continue that if you're devoting full-time efforts to sitting on the City Council my [2:05:43] Public commenter: understanding is that many city councillors have a full-time job the Lewis and City Council while a demanding position is not a full-time job and certainly doesn't pay like one and you know I think that just as you know many of you are able to balance your responsibilities as professionals your WORK RESPONSIBILITIES SO TOO WOULD I BE ABLE TO BALANCE MY LEGAL RESPONSIBILITIES AND MY COUNCIL RESPONSIBILITIES I WILL ALSO SAY THAT ONE OF THE GOOD THINGS ABOUT OWNING YOUR OWN LAW PRACTICE IS THAT YOU CAN SCALE YOUR WORKLOAD UP OR DOWN DEPENDING UPON HOW MUCH TIME YOU HAVE SO I IMAGINE I MAY NOT BE ABLE TO TAKE ON AS MANY CLIENTS DURING BUDGET SEASON AND CAN TAKE ON MORE LATER I'M SERVING ON THE COUNCIL THANK YOU DID [2:06:33] Carl L. Sheline: YOU HAVE MORE QUESTIONS COUNCILOR [2:06:35] David B. Chittim: I do, but I want to yield to another councillor. [2:06:39] Carl L. Sheline: Okay. Councillor Martel, yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. [2:06:44] Bret Martel: Good evening. I would like to ask, Lewiston government is nonpartisan by design. You have quite the history of partisan behaviors and politicking. Would you like to address some of the videos that I've seen online recently of you harassing at his home a former candidate for this City Council and maybe explain some of your behavior outside of his home for over half an hour with the other current, the current City Council candidate at the time that you've supported? It's been well circulated and I'm just curious if that represents how you intend to deal with your colleagues going forward. [2:07:29] Public commenter: Councillor Martel, I have no idea what you're talking about. The council chambers [2:07:36] Carl L. Sheline: could please refrain from making noise. Please continue. But what I would say is [2:07:44] Public commenter: that during my time on the Lewiston School Committee and my time on the intersection budget, County Budget Committee, I regularly worked with people with whom I strongly disagreed to pass policy that was in the interest of our [2:07:57] Bret Martel: schools and our county respectively. So it's your testimony here in front of us you don't recall going to his house and harassing him and you have no idea that there's any recordings of such [2:08:08] Public commenter: circulating on the internet? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. Is this something that purportedly happened to you? I'm, I'm confused. No, it was the candidate running [2:08:20] Bret Martel: against Sophia Khalid a few years ago. It was a fellow Democrat. I believe you showed up with her at his residence. He had just gotten out of surgery and there's video of you pounding on his windows and his doors and harassing him from outside his home for over 30 minutes. That's [2:08:35] Public commenter: categorically untrue. Any video to that effect would be absolutely false and subject to defamation. Interesting. I [2:08:46] Bret Martel: do have another question. So I do, I believe that everybody deserves an attorney and the right to representation and I know that you recently represented the city councilor, the prior city councilor that stepped down. So I'm asking you to separate your legal standing from your personal one. Is it still your belief that individual is the person that rightfully belongs up here? You advocated strongly on his behalf. As I do with all my clients. But [2:09:17] Public commenter: I think that the prior city councilor made the decision to resign. So I don't see any reason why he would continue to be on the council if he had resigned. I confused by your question. That's [2:09:34] Carl L. Sheline: It for now. That's all for now, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Martel. Further questions for Mr. Majeure's Collins. Councillor Nagine. Yes, I just want to put out, thank you, Mr. Mayor, I just [2:09:47] Joshua L. Nagine: want to put a point of clarification. I actually spoke to Walter Hill on my way in today. He called me on the way, two council meetings, two council meeting, and he said that if anything came up concerning him, any one of the counselors can talk to him directly, but he did not want anyone to be speaking for him here, so yeah. [2:10:11] Carl L. Sheline: Thank you. Was that everything concerned aging? [2:10:14] Joshua L. Nagine: yeah that's it 's just the conversation concerning walter hill should probably be had with Walter Hill if you have a question about what happened thank you yes [2:10:28] Bret Martel: Counselor Martel, I would just like to clarify that I wasn't trying to speak for Mr. Hill. I was asking for Mr. Majerus Collins testimony on the video that I saw associated with his behavior. Counselors, if I may, we're not going to [2:10:43] Carl L. Sheline: go back and forth. We're here to ask applicants questions. Counselor Chittum, did you have further questions that you did not get answered? [2:10:52] David B. Chittim: No, thank you. Mr. Mayor. Okay. [2:10:55] Carl L. Sheline: Further questions for the applicant. Thank you very much. My pleasure. Thank you. It's Chrissy Noble here. Thank you for coming. Please join us. We can just move the mic closer to you. Perfect. Yeah, that's excellent. Actually. Thank you. Yes, please introduce yourself and take it away. [2:11:35] Chrissy Noble: Okay. My name is Chrissy Noble. A little bit about me. I was born to a great-great-grandfather. Well, my great-great-grandfather was a Canadian immigrant. I've lived in Lewiston for 20-plus years. Ten of those years have been in the downtown area. My children have attended Lewiston Public Schools, and now my grandson has started kindergarten in Lewiston Public Schools. I work at New Beginnings as a youth worker. I've been there for 17 years. I'm trained as a family conflict mediator. I have multiple trainings in harm reduction, crisis intervention, conflict resolution, trauma-informed care, homelessness, and substance abuse disorder. Sorry, I'm a little nervous. The reason that I presented an application was I feel like our ward has been underrepresented. We have a lot of members from the African community in our ward, and I feel that they need to be protected right now. I feel that my experience in conflict resolution does help me to see all the sides of the situation and to be able to find some sort of middle ground to be able to work on solutions. I'm not gonna pretend that I'm political or that I'm a master of policy, but I have a really big heart. I've lived in the city a really long time and I have a good understanding of the people who live here also, and I guess that's it. [2:13:14] Carl L. Sheline: Thank you so much, Councillor Long Champs. Hi. [2:13:21] Susan G. Longchamps: Hi, Chrissy. Hi. Thank you for your application. I know you personally and I think you do great work and you're a great person. The only question that I have for you tonight is I'm just confused because you had pulled your application and then at the ninth hour decided to put it back in. For me that's hard because I just don't know why someone would do that, so if you could just [2:13:52] Chrissy Noble: help me understand. So initially I had, you know, wanted to maybe try and see if this was something that I could do. I was worried about, I work at, in the evenings I work four to midnight, so I was worried about being able to, you know, be present and be here and be effective. Since then I did speak to, you know, some friends who helped me to kind of like, you know, hey, I think you can do this. I spoke with my director at New Beginnings and they have assured me that they would accommodate my schedule here so that I would be able to, you know, be present, be effective, and hopefully help. [2:14:35] Susan G. Longchamps: Thank you. I [2:14:38] Carl L. Sheline: was gonna say 4 to midnight those sometimes mirror our hours further comments questions from councillors or councillor longchamps did you have [2:14:47] David B. Chittim: anything else? Oh, Councillor Chittim, yes. Thank you, Miss Noble. I appreciate there, I have spoken with you on the phone as well. I'm gonna ask you the same question I asked another applicant. How do you reconcile the needs of the city with the ability to pay for those needs? Well, like I said, [2:15:09] Chrissy Noble: I'm not a, you know, I'm not big on policy. I don't know a lot of stuff, but I do understand grants, I understand budgeting, you know, from my own personal household to the agency I work for. I would hope that we could find grants and funding to do some of the things that the city needs as far as like, you know, cleaning it up, you know, getting harm reduction strategies in place, maybe, hopefully. Stuff along that line. [2:15:41] David B. Chittim: I heard you mention harm reduction strategies. Could you elaborate on that a little bit? [2:15:46] Chrissy Noble: Well, I guess just, like, the basic thing about harm reduction is it's the idea that we cannot stop people from using substances or doing things that are harmful to them, but what we can do is teach them and educate them how to do those things in a safer way. There's been, I know that it's a touchy subject and a lot of people get, you know, real heated about it and I understand, I'm passionate about it too, but there is, you know, a lot of, you know, articles and data to back up a harm reduction and the effectiveness of it as far as substance abuse disorder is [2:16:26] David B. Chittim: involved. Thank you. I appreciate that. I did not mean to put you on the spot, but this position entails being put on the spot a lot, so if you are selected you need to get used to that. I appreciate your being here and thank you for your willingness to submit an application for this increasingly difficult job. [2:16:46] Michael R. Roy: Councillor Roy, did you have questions? Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Hey Chrissy, one of the things that you had already elaborated a little bit on was work and counsel during budget season. There's a time where we may be here two maybe three nights a week, so is that something that your employer will be understanding [2:17:07] Chrissy Noble: of? I'm lucky that I've been there a long time, so I do have some the ability to be able to move my schedule a little a little bit here and there, so I can pick up day shifts, I could do overnight shifts, I can I can move my schedule however I need it to be in order to still be doing my job and be effective here. I believe. All right, thank you. [2:17:35] Carl L. Sheline: Can I, maybe this was already covered, what do you do at New Beginnings, if I may ask? [2:17:40] Chrissy Noble: Excuse me, what do you do at New Beginnings? I'm the lead youth worker and I specialize in family conflict mediation and conflict resolution, so I work with direct care with youth, but I also do side missions kind of where I'm working with families and with the preventative piece of, you know, homelessness, youth homelessness. [2:18:01] Carl L. Sheline: Gotcha, thank you. Further questions for Miss Noble? Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. The Honorable Rin Sewell. I apologize. Thank you for joining us. Please start when you are ready. Just move the mic closer to you. [2:18:41] Rin Sol: Let me pull the chair closer. So Honorable Counsel and Mr. Mayor, thank you for the opportunity to speak today. I respectfully ask for the consideration for appointment to the Ward 5 City Council seat. For the past two years, I have had the privilege of serving as the Ward 5 City Councilor, and it has truly been an honor. Ward 5 is where I live, it's where I know my neighbors, it's where my roots are. But my responsibility as a councilor has always been the entire city of Lewiston. Every decision we make affects us all. I have worked hard to represent not just one ward, but every resident who calls this city home. A divided city will never thrive. I have served with honesty, integrity, and a deep love for Lewiston. I care deeply about the people who live here, the people who work here, in the future we are building together. Diversity is not a weakness, it is strength. Ward Five is a community rich in culture, backgrounds, perspectives, and I value every one of them. Recently I have had meaningful conversations with the residents who want to feel more connected and more represented, including members of our immigrant community, and I am grateful for those conversations. They have reminded me that good leadership starts with listening, with humility, with the willingness to grow. I am committed to continuing that work, strengthening communication, building trust, and ensuring that every voice feels heard, respected, and included. My service on the Lewiston Youth Advisory Committee has furthered opened my eyes to the strength of our broader community, one that supports one another, has deep roots here in Lewiston. It reinforced my belief that we must honor our city's history while also welcoming thoughtful, positive change that moves us forward together. At the heart of this, my goal is simple, to make Lewiston a place where everyone feels they belong, that they feel safe, and it is a place that we are all proud to call home. If appointed, I give you my word that I will continue the work, to work hard for all of Lewiston, remain FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE, AND BE AN ACCESSIBLE, ENGAGED, AND COUNCILOR WHO LISTENS AND ADVOCATES FOR THE PEOPLE I SERVE. I SAY THIS OFTEN AND I WILL CONTINUE TO SAY IT, I LOVE THIS CITY AND I LOVE SERVING THE PEOPLE WHO I CALL IT HOME. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. [2:21:12] Carl L. Sheline: QUESTIONS FOR MS. SOLE COUNCILOR [2:21:18] David B. Chittim: CHIDDUM NO QUESTIONS I think I know Ren Sole fairly well, having worked very closely with her despite some ideological differences over the past two years. I commend her for enduring this grueling operation, and I thank you for your continued interest in serving on the [2:21:38] Carl L. Sheline: council. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, thank you. Yes. Counselor Long Champs. Yes, I'm I [2:21:47] Susan G. Longchamps: I would just like to thank you mainly for working so well with us. I don't always do that so well, but you have always, no matter what the situation was, you weren't so into leaning to the right or the left. You really thought about what was best for the whole city of Lewiston. And again, I haven't always done that, but you have a really great talent with that and a gift that not all of us have. And what I heard from you was that there's room for improvement to make sure that all of your constituents are heard and that you represent all of them, and without a doubt you will do that. There were times that you called me, well, you sent me a message asking me if you could volunteer at my store because it is right on Pine Street, and I have a wide variety of customers that I love but you knew that was a place that you could go and hopefully mingle with some of the people that you don't see all of the time. I'm sorry that I wasn't able to make that happen, but that told me how much you were willing to engage with everyone in your community. I believe that you are the right person to sit there. I appreciate all of the other applicants, but you have shown integrity up here. You have served honestly, and I believe that you would continue to do that, and it would be a shame, in my opinion, if you were not appointed that seat back. And I would encourage the other applicants next time around to get out there and take a run for it, but for now I think that you are the right person to sit there. So I don't really have any questions, but thank you. Thank [2:23:49] Carl L. Sheline: You, councillor. Thank you, and I would like to remind counselors that we will have time for discussion and deliberation, but now is the time for questions. Councillor Martel. [2:24:00] Bret Martel: Some of local government faces transparency and integrity issues right now. During your term, did you ever face reprimand or punishment of any kind for your behaviors? No. And could you tell us a little bit about the ordinances that you were able to pass and why they were important to you, and some of the process that you had to go through with your fellow councillors in order to bring those to fruition? Well, the first [2:24:26] Rin Sol: Ordinance was the curfew ordinance. I petitioned to change it so that it would be 10 p.m. seven nights a week, and that stemmed from a lot of the gun violence that we were seeing in reports that it was minors. So I just wanted to give the LPD another tool to hopefully take some more weapons off the streets, and hopefully maybe the parents something that they could use to get their little ones home on time and not out on the street, because, well, nothing good happens after 10 p.m. So another ordinance that I worked on was the needle ordinance, and that was a very long process. But I never gave up. I stuck with it. I was willing to compromise. It wasn't everything I wanted in it, but I still think that as a group we created a really good piece of city policy and [2:25:32] Bret Martel: probably my last question will be, can you just tell us a little bit more about your time on the Youth Advisory Committee and how that affected your views and feelings about the city and the youth of the city and where Lewiston is going and the importance of those individuals? It's really opened my eyes [2:25:52] Rin Sol: up to just how fantastic the youth are in this city they 're unstoppable we have done youth festivals to out in Samar part where you but there were booths to get the residents involved so that the youth could show them you know this is what we're interested in this is what we're doing this is what we need it's just been really fantastic to see just how much they want to be out in the community and get the rest of the youth involved so it's it's been [2:26:28] Bret Martel: pretty great. Thank you for everything you've done for Lewiston in your term and what I'm confident you'll continue to do whether you're appointed tonight [2:26:36] Carl L. Sheline: or not. Thank you. Further comments or sorry for further questions for Miss [2:26:43] Michael R. Roy: Soul. Counselor Roy. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Hi, Erin. I didn't know you before you got on the council two years ago, and I just want to say, you know, I consider your friend. I've seen you grow. I've seen you find your voice, and I really appreciate that about you. But I do have a couple of questions for you. How would you or how did you separate your beliefs and feelings with constituents that do not share the beliefs that you do? [2:27:20] Rin Sol: That's a tough question, because I put it into the little context, but I can give you a little. I've never pushed my beliefs on anyone else ever. I never sat in that seat as a Republican. I sat in that seat as a city councillor, so I'm always willing to listen and be open to whatever somebody wants to say and one [2:27:46] Michael R. Roy: other question I've got there are a lot of people scared right now in the list them how what would you say to comfort them I mean there's there's a lot of people scared they don't even want to get out of their house yeah there is and [2:28:00] Rin Sol: I think it's, I think it's unfortunate that our community has to live in fear. I don't think anyone should have to live in fear. So I do encourage people to know their rights. I reach out to your neighbors, make sure that everybody is okay. [2:28:18] Carl L. Sheline: Further questions? Thank you for joining us. Madam Clerk, I believe that's all the applicants? It is, yes, sir. Discussion from counselors before we head to public comment. And I want to talk about public comment before we head to it but questions first counselor in aging comments mr. Mayor questions or comments discussion amongst ourselves okay but if I sorry if I may so I think it's perfectly fine if a counselor was like oh I have a question now we can invite an applicant up to the podium and get it answered so yeah I appreciate that I just wanted to say [2:29:01] Joshua L. Nagine: Thank you for all the applicants that came up. This is a really weird way to interview for council position and so that took a lot of bravery for all of you and I appreciate all of you to come to step up and speak in front of the council especially considering that four of you have never even spoken in a situation like this before I'm sure so thank you [2:29:29] Carl L. Sheline: Councillor Herman, thank you [2:29:31] Scott A. Harriman: I just wanted to clarify the process we're going to use and that can either be done now or it could be done after public comment, but You know, how are we going to conduct the vote? Is it going to be is it is it going to be ranked choice or is it going to be a plurality? How many votes does it take to prevail? Questions like that, but they can they can either be answered now or after public comment [2:29:58] Carl L. Sheline: I think we're okay to answer them now. Thank you. They're great questions Madam clerk your thoughts on this matter before we start discussing up here about that. Sure. Thank you. Mr Mayor under Robert's Rules of Order they would be by majority vote not plurality, but majority vote and in the past Counselors when we've had openings and applications counselors would nominate someone from the list of applications under Robert's Rules of Order a nomination does not have to be seconded because the group is going to be voting on it so one counselor can nominate one of the applicants those applicant names will go sort of on the floor if you will and then we in past practice we Would take a vote, and when you vote, you're not going to say yes or no, but you're gonna say the name of the nominee, and then it would be majority vote. Who receives a majority of the votes cast, and then that would be sort of the selected nominee. And then the formal vote motion is item two in your book, which would be to appoint applicant X to fill the vacancy regarding the time frame and so forth. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Council Hermann. Yes, so I guess with the [2:31:20] Scott A. Harriman: the informal vote before the motion, which is marked as number two, if people, if there's a tie, then do we just have to work that out before we make that formal motion, or how [2:31:34] Carl L. Sheline: does that work? Sure. A tie vote under Robert's Rules of Order fails because it doesn't receive passage one way or the other, so a tie vote would fail. So then you would need to basically keep re-voting unless someone wanted to withdraw a nomination in case the structure changes before you, but you would keep re-voting until an applicant is selected. Counselor, how many do you have further questions? Yes, and then the final vote, [2:32:04] Scott A. Harriman: you know, once we come to a conclusion and then we have the formal vote at the end, does that require four votes for passage, or is it just a majority? Okay, and does that change if members abstain, does that change the calculation or anything? [2:32:22] Carl L. Sheline: Robert's Rules of Order says for majority vote, it's of the members present and voting. So abstentions are basically not a yes or a no vote. They're basically not counted and calculated under Robert's Rules of Order. [2:32:37] Scott A. Harriman: So if it ended up going, let's say three people abstained and there were four people voting three to one, the person who got three would still, that [2:32:51] Carl L. Sheline: vote would still carry even though it's not for majority of the members present in voting is the language from Robert's Rules? Yes. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Madam Clerk, and thank you, thank you Council Herman, for your questions. Yes, discussion on applicants before we talk about [2:33:09] David B. Chittim: going to public comment councillor chittum well i was going to talk a little bit about process and ask questions about process is it my understanding that it would require four votes to secure a nomination which would then go to a vote of the council as to whether a point that selected [2:33:28] Carl L. Sheline: nominee? That is not my understanding, that it would need four votes, it would be majority vote, and [2:33:38] David B. Chittim: you've just stated that an abstention is not a vote, correct? An [2:33:44] Carl L. Sheline: abstention is counted as a blank or a pass in some sense, in some instances, an [2:33:50] David B. Chittim: Abstention is counted as a no vote, and I'm very confused about the status of an abstention now. I don't know that any counselor is going to abstain, and I have spoken to each counselor asking that abstentions be avoided if at all possible, but each counselor makes up his or her own mind on that matter. My understanding is that if there are six votes and one abstention, then the only way that a majority can be held is with four people voting for the same nominee. If three and three, that's a failed vote, and do we re-nominate the slate, or do we continue voting on the same slate of people who have been nominated initially? [2:34:41] Carl L. Sheline: So if it's a three and three, it's a tie vote, and so the motion doesn't pass, so then that's when the council would have to discuss what they want to do. Do they want to re-vote again? Is someone planning to change their vote? Is someone planning to withdraw one of their nominations to, again, change the dynamic? It would be up to the council how they would want to proceed. But we consulted with a professional parliamentarian today, a national parliamentarian today, and he confirmed that it would be re-voting. And at that point, would the council, again, someone withdraw a nomination or change their vote? They can change their mind, you're not locked into if you voted this way and you revo you could vote another way, so it would really be up to the council to revote to keep revoting until the appointment is filled. Another option would be to postpone to the next meeting as gives me as a reminder you have 30 days which we determined from before and February 7th which is a Saturday and we do have another meeting February 3rd if for some reason the council is deadlocked and we've re-voted multiple times and there's no changes, one option is to continue the matter to the next meeting. I'm not necessarily recommending that one way or the other, I'm just saying as a way to clear the possible deadlock if we're not seeming to move forward [2:36:05] David B. Chittim: that is the potential as well, so to clarify we do not need to re-nominate, we can simply take the slate that was initially nominated and re-vote and re-vote and re-vote until it becomes clear that, and this is not what I'm projecting, it's simply trying to explore the options because we're building this airplane as we're flying it. I told you, folks, this is not going to be a pleasant process. So we continue to vote until there is some kind of consensus. If we cannot reach consensus, an option that you've suggested is to lay this on the table. I am absolutely not in favor of this. This band-aid needs to be ripped off and the sooner the better. I would be very much opposed to tabling this and moving it to a later date. I think this perhaps may be one of the most difficult decisions that the counselors up here have been asked to make, and I would much prefer for my own sanity if nothing else to make that decision tonight one way or another. So again the order is nominations will finally stop even if there are five nominees, and then we'll begin voting and we vote by name. Candidate A, candidate, I'm sorry I keep using that word, it's applicant A, applicant B and so on, and we will require four votes absent any abstentions for an applicant to be forwarded to the final vote which is to make an appointment. I don't believe four [2:37:40] Carl L. Sheline: votes are required, I believe it's a majority, but I'm looking at the city attorney for clarification on that. Yes. If there's an abstention or let's let's say there's there's seven councillors participating in the vote potentially, so if one person abstains and there's a tie vote then that would be defeated. If two people abstained that would be and there was a 3-2 vote then the 3-2 vote [2:38:16] David B. Chittim: would carry the day. Thank you. I accept that. I disagree with it but I accept it. I suspect that we will end up with seven votes, I certainly hope we will, which would require a majority of four even with one extension exemption abstention, I'm sorry, we would still require four votes, is that correct? No. [2:38:40] Carl L. Sheline: Well one abstention with a split vote would be a tie. I'm not [2:38:47] David B. Chittim: talking about that, I'm talking about forwarding a an applicant to the final process with no abstentions or with one abstention, that requires four votes. With two abstentions it can be done with three votes, correct? Thank you. I disagree with that but I'll accept it. Thank you. Thank you councillor Chittum. [2:39:10] Carl L. Sheline: Councillor Najin did you have something just to clarify really quickly on [2:39:14] Joshua L. Nagine: that? Could I just want to run the math down so if one person abstains, one person is has three nominations, one person has two and one person has one, does the three nominations carry over for the vote or does it always have to BE FOR THE FOR THE ULTIMATE VOTE BUT FOR THE NOMINATION WE WOULD THREE TWO AND ONE WOULD NOT BRING THE THREE VOTE OVER BECAUSE THEN IT WOULD BE A NOMINATE IT WOULD BE THE MAJORITY AT THAT POINT RIGHT [2:39:52] Carl L. Sheline: But to please use your mic, good sir, for I think it's helpful to clarify the nominee, you know, the process for some, somebody moving to a vote. But I don't believe there needs to be a minimum number of nominations in order for the council to vote on a candidate. So my suggestion would be that, you know, you vote on a can, on a candidate until a candidate has a majority, until there's a candidate that has a majority vote of those who do not, those who participate in the vote, but [2:40:34] Joshua L. Nagine: Basically means if somebody carries three votes, somebody carries two, and somebody carries one, the three vote then is the nominee, yeah. [2:40:44] Carl L. Sheline: Yes, Counselor Herman, could I just get clarification on [2:40:50] Scott A. Harriman: that? Because three out of six is not a majority, it's a plurality. So is three, if the vote breakdown was three, two, and one, the three is not a majority, but it is still the most. So does that correct move them along, or does that not, do they have to have a majority of the people voting, or do they have to have a [2:41:11] Carl L. Sheline: morality? I mean, my suggestion would be that the council vote on the, on the candidate with the most nominations among the group first, and if that candidate does not receive a majority vote, then you move on to the candidates with the next most number of nominations from counselors, okay. [2:41:36] Scott A. Harriman: And then, and then for the next, you know, the formal vote which is marked as number two, does it not, does the section of the Charter 2.11 D where it says that any action of the council has to have a minimum of four affirmative votes, does that not apply on this? [2:41:56] Carl L. Sheline: That does not apply because there's a specific exception in that section for the 2.06d process, okay. I see, okay, thank you. I think we're well. Counselor Chittum, did you DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION ABOUT THIS? [2:42:15] David B. Chittim: I DO FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY. 211D. [2:42:20] Carl L. Sheline: ONE SECOND. I UNDERSTAND THIS IS TAKING A WHILE, BUT IF YOU CAN PLEASE REFRAIN FROM SPEAKING SO WE CAN HAVE IT QUIET IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBERS. IF YOU NEED TO TALK, TEXT EACH OTHER OR HEAD TO THE HALL. COUNCILOR CHINNAM, PLEASE PROCEED. THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR. [2:42:37] David B. Chittim: 211D, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, MAKES AN EXCEPTION FOR 2.06C. I'M SORRY, D OR C. BUT IT DOESN'T EXPLAIN WHY AND WHAT THE MAJORITY WOULD BE. IT SAYS ALL COUNCIL ACTIONS TO BE EFFECTIVE NEED FOUR VOTES EXCEPT FOR WHEN WE'RE VOTING ON SEATING A COUNSELOR. BUT IT GIVES NO INSTRUCTION AS TO WHAT THAT REQUIRES. [2:43:05] Carl L. Sheline: CORRECT. AND THAT'S WHERE WE TURN TO ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER IN section 44.1 it defines what a majority vote is and if i could just follow up counselor our the council rules state that we will follow robert's rules of order as our parliamentary authority so that's the backup and the justification for using robert's rules because the council rules state that is our parliamentary governing authority thank you counselors i would like to discuss how we're going to public comment i propose the following that we humbly request Ward 5 residents speak first they were allowed their full three minutes followed by Lewiston residents from the rest of the wards and then given the amount of people here and I would suggest that they get one minute and then followed by everybody else who doesn't live in Lewiston should they choose to speak we can get a show of hands at that point and then determine the time for them thoughts on this counselor chittum to recap to recap [2:44:15] David B. Chittim: ward five residents have a three minute time limit and are asked to proceed first all others are given a one minute time limit and are asked to follow ward five if a ward 5 resident wants to get up after non-ward 5 residents have spoken will they [2:44:34] Carl L. Sheline: be given the three minutes? I would say yes, but you know, we should try to stay in the Ward 5 section at the beginning. I'm [2:44:45] David B. Chittim: comfortable with that if the remaining counselors feel that ward 5 residents who are being we're being asked to represent them up here be given the full three minutes and that if you're not in ward five you have one minute and if you're in ward 5 and want to come up at the tail end because you've if something has dawned on you then you have your three minutes is that comfortable with the counselors yeah [2:45:12] Joshua L. Nagine: counselor and agent your thoughts i absolutely support centering the ward five residents first for sure i would just point out that there have been several complaints about freedom of speech CURTAINING FREEDOM OF SPEECH WITHIN MUNICIPAL FUNCTIONS, AND SO LIMITING OTHER RESIDENTS TO OR OTHER COMMENTERS TO JUST ONE MINUTE DOES SEEM, I MEAN, THIS IS GOING TO BE AN UGLY AND LONG PROCESS NO MATTER HOW WE LOOK AT IT, BUT I DON'T WANT TO DISENFRANCHISE ANYBODY IS ALL I'M PUTTING OUT THERE. UNDERSTOOD. [2:45:50] Carl L. Sheline: We're also, my goal is to finish before 1 a.m. Councilor Martel, did you have thoughts? I saw [2:45:56] Bret Martel: Your hand up, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Yeah, I have similar sentiments. The standard is three minutes for public comment. I understand it looks like that could be a little bit tenuous this evening, but I don't think we need to keep changing the rules for our own personal benefit and on a whim. I think that public comment is three minutes, and the people that take the time to come down here and speak, regardless of what word they're from, should it get the three minutes to speak. So [2:46:24] Carl L. Sheline: Other counselors want to chime in? Because we're long champs, did you want to say something? [2:46:30] Susan G. Longchamps: Yeah, I think we should give them the three minutes that is allotted for public comment. [2:46:35] Carl L. Sheline: Like everyone should get three minutes, everyone should get three minutes. I'm, yeah, I can be [2:46:41] David B. Chittim: flexible -huh counselor chittum yeah thank you counselor martel counselor longchamp in order for us to limit anybody to one minute we would have to vote by a super majority to change the council rules so thank you for reminding me of that counselor martel so i 'm i'm going to advocate then that as long as it may drag this meeting out that all speakers get a full [2:47:06] Carl L. Sheline: three minutes. Yeah, no, we will proceed in that fashion. And yeah, I anticipate most of the attendees will speak, but maybe not all. We're about to find out. But yes, I am asking, so we're gonna start public comment for this. You get three minutes, and three minutes only, and ward five first, followed by people in Lewiston, and then we'll, and then everybody else. I'm sorry? Madam Clerk, were there considerations about translating we were talking before? For I believe the recommendation of their advice offer. I'm sorry, that was what I wanted. The offer was to translate your instructions about speaking at the podium oh okay yeah if you could Ifrah or Sophia if one of you could translate that 'd be great we also want to translate that word five residents. Is that so the plan can get up first? Yes, no, we're in a, we're all in agreement about that, Mr. [2:48:22] David B. Chittim: Mayor yeah sorry Councillor Chittim this then necessitates that award five resident who is not speaking in English would have three minutes to present and then presumably a three minute translation period is that correct I was thinking that translation [2:48:38] Carl L. Sheline: would be included in their three minutes, but how does the rest of the council feel? [2:48:44] Scott A. Harriman: COUNCILOR HERMAN. NO, IT'S NOT FAIR TO LIMIT PEOPLE TO THREE MINUTES, INCLUDING TRANSLATION. IF PEOPLE HAVE THREE MINUTES TO SPEAK, THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO SPEAK FOR THREE MINUTES. [2:48:57] David B. Chittim: COUNCILOR CHIDDUM. YES, AND I WOULD ASK THAT NOT BE ABUSED, AND IF THE SPEAKER CAN SPEAK ENGLISH, THAT BE DONE. IF ANOTHER LANGUAGE IS THE PRINCIPLE OR SOLE LANGUAGE, then I'm advocating that we have a basically a doubling of the initial speed period whether it's three minutes or two and a half minutes or whatever further [2:49:22] Carl L. Sheline: further comments from the council so just to recap we will have Ward five go first followed by loosen residents followed by everybody else if somebody cannot speak English to the degree that they can be understood by us then they will use their you know up to three minutes and then up to three minutes for translation is that what I'm hearing if rock can you please translate I THINK WE ARE READY FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. First, Ward 5 first. Please step right up. Don't be shy. Form a line so we can keep moving here. And could both the person speaking and the translator both speak into the microphone, please. Please proceed. Hi, everybody. [2:51:58] Public commenter: My name is Habiba. [2:52:01] Carl L. Sheline: I'm sorry where do you live yes of course thank you sir I live [2:52:22] Sherry Oliver Riley: in world five I [2:52:24] Zafra Sa'id Issa: I support Karen thank you if the [2:52:45] Carl L. Sheline: audience could please be respectful and be quiet during public speaking thank you [2:52:52] Zafra Sa'id Issa: I am supporting CUNAN THAT'S IT IF [2:53:18] Carl L. Sheline: WE CAN KEEP THE AISLES CLEAR SO THAT WAY PEOPLE WHO WANT TO COME TO THE PODIUM HAVE A CLEAR PATH TO DO SO PLEASE CONTINUE SIR MY NAME IS [2:53:30] Public commenter: ABDULLAH M ABDULLAH I LIVE IN WARD 5 AND I AM VOTING IF THERE'S A VOTE TONIGHT for City Council. Thank you. [2:53:53] Zafra Sa'id Issa: My name is Habiba Salada. My [2:53:58] Carl L. Sheline: name is Habiba Salada. [2:53:59] Amran: I live [Zafra Sa'id Issa: in Ward 5.] I live in Ward 5. [2:54:24] Zafra Sa'id Issa: I am supporting I forgot how to pronounce his name [Carl L. Sheline: the] white lawyer if [2:54:46] Carl L. Sheline: the audience could please refrain could please be quiet in the audience thank you thank you please be quiet thank you no for real please be quiet thank you I [2:55:10] Zafra Sa'id Issa: live in Ward 5 I support Kenan he's a good person and I hope he get he gets it thank you thank you Ward [2:55:35] Carl L. Sheline: 5 residents please step right up my [2:55:41] Zafra Sa'id Issa: name is Jamila I live in Ward 5 and I'm voting for Kennan hello [2:55:56] Nicola May: my name is Nicola May and I'm a proud resident of Ward 5 I'm also the executive director of a nonprofit organization that supports youth in this community I usually watch these meetings from home but I just felt like really compelled to come in person as a lot of my community is afraid to come and I'm so proud of everybody that is here because that made me really happy. Now more than ever we need a city councillor who will represent and advocate for all of their constituents. constituents. The new ward five counselor should have a deep respect for all of the people who live in their ward. Now more than ever we need a counselor that is not afraid to stand up to injustice. Too many of my neighbors are living in fear. Each morning I walk my dog Chance past the local bus stop and the neighborhood children love him. They all give him a quick pad and say hello. There's usually like eight or nine kids out there, right? Having fun, playing ball, whatever. Well, last Friday there's a lot of little kids missing. No one in our community should be afraid to go to school. There's this one little girl, she is quite fond of me. We bonded over school and bracelets. She's made me about 40 of them. You know, people often speak about Ward 5 in particular, but Lewiston in a very negative way. But you know what? There's so much beauty here. And Lewiston has been through so much over the past few years. And I worry that the trauma and the damage that ICE will cause is really going to harm this community. The harm that ICE brings already has shown in the fear that's on the children's faces. Yesterday, I was at a Martin Luther King Jr. event, and a community leader told me that her son has a whole group of white children that have to walk him to and from school because they're afraid for him because his skin's brown. Now, city council members, each of you has been called to leadership. And with that comes a big responsibility, that responsibility to stand when others choose to sit. And I ask you to ensure that the people of Ward 5 have somebody that will stand up for them when they're in danger. That's time. All right. Thank you so much. I'm [2:59:12] Mecca D: not that tall so hi everybody my name is Mecca D and I am I've lived in Lewiston for about 20 years and I do live in Ward 5 but today I just usually I don't associate myself in a lot of like city business but I just felt compelled to show up to be there to be a part of the change that we do want to happen so we've just been seeing a lot of things happen in this community a lot of scary things and we want to move past that we want somebody in the City Council that is going to be a strong asset And a strong person to advocate not just for the immigrant community but everybody in Lewiston because I usually, this morning I woke up and I asked myself should my daughter go to school and that was out of fear because and that should be a question that I should never ask myself as a person that has been a citizen for over 15 years and considers Lewiston-Auburn my home. It has always been my home. I don't know anything else. I don't recall anything else. So it is a shame to wake up and ask myself in the morning, should my daughter go to school? So I want someone on the city council that is going to bring that change for I didn't even know we were doing anything like this. I didn't know what the meeting was about I just showed up but I am here for whoever is gonna be on the City Council I want them to be there for the people I want them to really represent us advocate for us and show us that they care that is all we're looking for in a member on the City Council and we wish that whoever is elected today is able to really step up and bring that change forward. Be there for us, hear us out, not tell us, don't put a Band-Aid over something that is a big wound. We don't want Band-Aids, we want a solution and we want the problem to be solved. So I am here for whoever is willing to bring that change and whoever is willing to advocate for the community, FOR ANYBODY, FOR THE CHILDREN THAT DO LIVE IN LOUISSTON, THAT DO CALL LOUISSTON A HOME. TO US, LOUISSTON IS NOT THE DIRTY LOU. TO US, LOUISSTON IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS NOT RESPECTED. WE RESPECT LOUISSTON AND WE RESPECT EVERYBODY THAT IS IN LOUISSTON. THIS IS A PLACE WE WORK. THIS IS A PLACE WE HAVE TO SHOP. THIS IS A PLACE OUR CHILDREN NEED TO GROW UP AND EXPERIENCE A Livelihood we don't want to be the next ain't Frank. We don't want to be hiding away. We don't want to get locked away We want solution and I hope the next City Council can bring that forward for us. Thank you [3:02:09] Carl L. Sheline: Thank you, yes next Ward 5 residents step right up [3:02:19] Mecca D: Hello, my name is Medina. I have also lived in Lewiston as long as my twin sister Yes, so we are, I am a citizen of Ward 5, and I just wanted to say that I did not agree with Wren when she said that she supported everybody and that she's not biased because there are a lot of posts that we've been seeing on social media, just like how you questioned Karen about harassing people. We see that on social media, that she's just been doing exactly that. Yes, it's freedom of speech, but we can all see that it's not, she's not for everybody in Lewston. And comments like, making comments like, of course they have something to hide, and from the bottom of my tip top, Jenna Mills, what you're gonna do now seems the head of the snake has become a bit large to hide. Comments like that do not bring people together. Comments like that are comments that divide people, and that is not what Lewston is about. Lewston is strong, Lewston is about unity, and Lewston is about coming together as a community, and I just absolutely do not agree that these comments translate community. These comments translate unity, and these comments translate a strong leader, and I, that's just something that I have to say. I've never had to face fear like this in my life. I've never had to wake up every day and say, is it safe for me to walk out my front door? Is it safe for me to go to work? Is it safe for me to go to the gas station to put gas in my car? I've never had to say anything like that before, and comments like these feel hate. Comments like these are injustice. Comments like these do not bring anybody together. Comments like these are not a solution, and we want someone, regardless of who it is, we want someone that's gonna bring change, and we want someone that's gonna be a part of the solution and not bring division to our Lewiston. That is what we need. Thank you. 100% in support of Kiernan. Thank you. If [3:04:41] Carl L. Sheline: the council could please be quiet, that'd be great. Next, Ward 5 residents, step right up, I guess. And if once I get, if the people are not Ward 5 residents, if you just move out of the way just for a little bit, just so we can like expedite this process, please continue, Zoe [3:05:01] Lidstrom: Lidstrom, Ward 5. Like the previous commenter, I have been very disappointed and disillusioned by some of the comments on social media from the former counselor for Ward 5 that do demonstrate that she does not necessarily have everyone in Ward 5's best interests at heart, and indeed perhaps feel some open hostility towards some members of the ward. At a time when so many of the residents of Lewiston are facing just terrible consequences for trying to live their lives, we need someone who can stand up for them and who can truly represent them. These are communities who have struggled to find good representation in our city, despite for some of them having lived here for decades, having grandchildren who have been born here. And for that reason I support Kiernan Majerus Collins, who does have a track record of being a strong ally to this community. And his allyship to this community I think does not detract from his ability to represent my needs and desires as a Ward 5 resident who is nevertheless not a member of an immigrant community. Thank you. Good [3:06:17] Jay Zimmerman: evening Jay Zimmerman Ward 5. I like everyone wish we had a chance to vote for the candidates or applicants, but I'm glad we got a chance to hear from them tonight. So here are some of my thoughts on what they said. I liked what Chrissy had to say and her deep connections to Lewiston, from her grandparents down through her grandchildren. I think her experience and homelessness and with youth and with substance abuse disorder would bring valuable perspectives to addressing those issues in our community. And I'm also hopeful that as a conflict mediator she could bring some respectful discourse to the council. I also like what Kiernan had to say about his goals for the city, and I'm optimistic that his experience in budgeting local governance and law would also be beneficial to the council and its business. But regardless of which candidate you do choose, it is important to me that you do not choose Rensoul. I know from my own experience that she is not someone I trust to fill this seat with integrity and non-partisanship. Wren has been openly hostile to a great part of Ward 5, including in her last term during the debate on SSPs, when she repeatedly claimed to be representing our community against the drug addicts, as if there were not any drug addicts in her ward that she was not equally duty-bound to represent, protect, and serve. It's clear to me that Wren has very strong ideas about who counts as a member of Ward 5 and who does not. We need a representative who will actually represent all of Ward 5, not just the people they approve of. And in the end, I think about the most pressing issue of today, and I mean today. And that issue shows no signs of going away anytime soon. That issue is immigration terrorism that is running rampant through our streets. And I listen to my neighbors talking tonight about how scared they are daily right now. I listen to my students talk about it every day at school. And I believe our city needs someone on council with a proven track record of connecting with immigrant communities, listening to their needs and advocating for them. Their perspectives have not been truly represented on council for a while. So I'm going to do what you all should do and listen to the people telling you what they need and how to meet those needs. The applicant who has the trust of these communities who are the most vulnerable right now is Kiernan and I support him for council. I am listening and so should you. [3:08:39] Carl L. Sheline: Next Ward 5 resident. [3:08:52] Martin Chartrand: Martin Chartrand, Ward 5 resident. Last election season I voted and I felt a lot of hope in who I voted for because I voted for a new voice and for compassion and accountability. What I saw in Rin Sul, the candidate that had been holding the seat prior, was a disregard for the needs of a huge segment of our community. I heard her stand there during the discussion on the Syringe Service Program Ordinance and say essentially, this is not for the people you serve, the people you serve being people who suffer from substance abuse disorder. And that to me says it basically admits that certain parts of our community are prioritized over others, so I voted for someone I thought would have everybody's interests at heart. And it wasn't about the person, it was about the commitment to listening and accountability to the diversity of Ward 5, the immigrant community as well as those struggling with homelessness, with substance use disorder. And I heard some great things from some of the candidates here tonight. I heard great things from Kiernan about his commitment representing people who are being terrorized right now by an enforcement agency that's out of control, that's taking an undemocratic and evil approach to our to our country and I am confident in his experience. I also really like and I'm so sorry I'm not names the woman who works with new beginnings who talked about harm reduction. I think she'd bring a lot of good to the city and maybe could be involved in some way. I strongly first support Kiernan Majerus Collins, though, because I've seen his commitment to the community and in this time of chaos and fear, we need someone who will, who can hit the ground running. And that's what I've heard from my neighbors, so that's who I'm supporting too. I just want to be clear too that you are as counselors appointing after an election took place and one of the candidates is someone voters already rejected so for you to appoint her is directly contradictory to the will of the voters thank you next [3:11:46] Carl L. Sheline: award five residents hello [3:11:53] Dylan Newell: my name is dylan newell i live in ward five i'm a landlord and i also live in the multi-unit i own and i'm a small business owner i just want fair representation up here i think this isn't a democratic or republic election tonight there's plenty of issues going on but you know there's a city to be run and i think that you know councilwoman sewell seoul has not only been recommended by some of her peers but they also touched on the earlier curfew to help with gun violence which is very scary in our communities and is a real thing every single day that's kind of a pressing matter the needle program i mean those are all very clear examples of what most people are echoing to be their main fears in the community so i think it's a pretty clear appointment it's already been going on for so long and you guys have such a long agenda it's not necessarily a popularity contest or who can have so many people show up and say something into her microphone tonight but more of who's qualified to make Proper decisions for the city, and I mean also she only lost by 30 votes, so she's technically second in line and should probably just have the seat anyway. Of course you're in, you know, uncharted territories, as you say, so I can't imagine what you had to deal with and figure out, but by popularity I think it's a pretty clear choice, and I feel like you guys also have that same feeling, but we appreciate you going through and doing your due diligence and letting everyone say their piece, so you know of course we definitely want a safe community and we don't want anyone to, you know, be mistreated or anything like that, but we also want a, you know, a city that's well managed, I guess. That's all. Thank you. Thank you. [3:13:46] Carl L. Sheline: Thank you. Next Ward 5 resident. Should there be any? Still left. Yes. [3:13:56] Abdul Qadir Adan: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, everyone. So my name is Abdul Qadir Adan. I currently live for Ward 5. Actually, I'm an immigrant. That's very important. I need someone to understand immigration, immigrant background, and to support. So Karen, he's a lawyer, he has a background in education, and he's a good leader, that's why I see that. So I need to vote for Karen. [3:14:34] Carl L. Sheline: Next vote, Ward 5 resident, please. Let's keep the line moving. Hello, [3:14:42] Public commenter: my name is Valerie. I'm a Ward 5 resident. I strongly support Kiernan Majerus Collins. But more than that, I wanted to tell you that when I voted in the municipal election in November, I thought carefully about what it would mean to unseat an incumbent. Particularly with such short terms, I care about the idea of institutional knowledge. But I was very troubled by her social media. And I made a concrete choice to vote as much for the candidate that I voted for as against the candidate that I did not vote for. I agree that this is not a popularity contest. contest, but I would encourage you to think carefully about the people who have spoken to you tonight from Ward 5, specifically from Ward 5, and consider what it took for them, the type of personal courage that it required, to come and speak to you in this public setting. If there was ever a place for privacy in our political system, it has traditionally been in how we cast our votes. I know that you feel the same. I heard you acknowledge that at the beginning. That's all I have to say. Thank you for your time. [3:16:05] Sam Chamberlain: Good evening. My name is Sam Chamberlain. I am a Ward 5 resident, small business owner, and employer here in the town and city of Lewiston. Tonight, I really feel I know that the Council and Corporation Council has made a decision and has arrived at a conclusion regarding the Charter. To me, it brings grave and deep concern of our city's democratic process. In March of 21, the Charter then Mayor Care established a Charter review committee. This committee was tasked with reviewing the city Charter and providing recommendations. At the August 3rd, 2021 council meeting, the Charter Commission committee shared their recommendations. This committee recommended that the Charter be amended in part to modify the language present in section 201, sorry, 2.06 C and D, and the recommended change for that language modified the next regular municipal election to be replaced with the expiration of the elected officials term. This change was in line with the other recommendations made by the committee. On the same date, due to the staggered election cycle the city was moving to, the recommended, the RECOMMENDED MODIFICATIONS PROVIDED BY THEN CITY ADMINISTRATOR ED BARRETT REFLECTED THIS CHANGE AS WELL. HOWEVER, AT THE COUNCIL MEETING ON THE 17TH OF AUGUST 2021, THE PROPOSED CHANGES WERE NOT PRESENT IN THE DOCUMENTS PRESENTED TO THE COUNCIL IN THE PUBLIC. IT IS CLEAR THAT THE INTENT OF THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE, THE CITY ADMINISTRATOR AT THE TIME, AND THE COUNCIL WAS TO MODIFY THE TECHNICAL WORDING OF THE CHARTER TO REFLECT THE MATERIAL CHANGES MADE TO THE CHARTER. SHOULD THAT CHANGE HAVE BEEN MADE, WE WOULD NOT BE HERE TODAY, AS CLEARLY THE INTENT OF THE committee, the council, and the community, and the charter would unequivocally state that a special election was to be held. As a Ward 5 voter, it is disturbing that my vote can be tossed aside due to a clerical error. If we, as Ward 5 voters, voted in another councillor, it would be the will of the people. Anything short of a special election is a disenfranchising of the voters. I encourage you all and implore the council to immediately direct city staff incorporation council to conduct a comprehensive legal review of the Charter and determine a position here. Anything short of anything short of returning the seat to the voters by way of a special election is patently unacceptable. Thank you all for your time. We're still doing a word five voters [3:18:36] Carl L. Sheline: should there be any can someone check in the hall if there's any word five voters. Hi, [3:18:52] Mohammed Till: my name is Mohammed. I just want to say hi, everyone. [3:18:56] Carl L. Sheline: I'm sorry, what's your last name, Mohammed, and where do you live? [3:18:59] Mohammed Till: Mohammed Till, Ward 5. I just want to say, like, people from Ward 5, they already speak when they vote against some of the candidates who are now waiting again to run for second time. Side, which I think it's going to be unfortunate if such person or such people are given another chance again. So that means, so I don't know why if the community already have spoke and voted against the candidates, and I can see now those candidates are still here looking some again votes. So therefore as a community member from Ward 5 I'm going to request from you counselors to vote for Canaan thank you very much we're [3:20:01] Carl L. Sheline: Approaching final call for Ward 5 residents I [3:20:07] Public commenter: Am a resident of Ward 5 today I've done something that I haven't done yet today I took out my passport and everyone in my family is now we're carrying their passports with them due to the events that happened today one of the former representatives shows me what it's like to look like me I will not allow someone who comes here and tells us they are for everybody they are for the community but says differently online I will not have someone who tells me that I am for my country not for America When I don't even know anything from I have been in America for as long as I can remember I have been in Lewiston for all I can remember and for me to even pull out my passport today to prove I can get pulled over whenever anything can happen to me and for me to have to remind everybody in my family that they need to carry on them says a lot and I do not think one of the electives will not they don't carry the best interest for people who look like me and that's why we are all going for Karen Thank you any Ward 5 residents [3:21:16] Carl L. Sheline: Left 45 it's go time okay thank you My name is Say now she has lived in Lewiston for 22 years but she's a farmer if possible if she could also speak into to the mic yes okay I live in Ward 5 I've lived in Lewiston for 22 years [3:22:34] Zafra Sa'id Issa: I'm standing here today and all of us in a group, we are united to support because we are strong Lewiston and I support this person. [3:22:55] Carl L. Sheline: Any Ward 5 residents left in the hall or the back room or here yeah color Ward 5 [3:23:04] Zafra Sa'id Issa: Rubber into hot law do [3:23:11] Carl L. Sheline: we think that's everyone okay we are now opening it up do we have somebody else that's word 5 or no it's looking no all right so we are we're now opening up to residents of Lewiston step right up [3:23:39] Amran: Hi everybody, my name is Amran. I am Ward 3, but I grew up in Ward 5. My whole family is in Ward 5, all my siblings live in Ward 5, and I've been in Lewiston since I was in preschool. And I am as an, as American as anybody else in this room. So the fact that people are looking at people that look like me, that grew up here, people who don't even know what back home is, this is our country. We are citizens, we are Americans, and we belong here. And to look at us and we look at the council and we see no representation. We're having people here running to represent us and they have said things on social media like if 20 million illegal aliens can help our economy, why didn't they help their own economy? Me, if guns can kill people, I guess forks make people fat. People who post things not because of someone did something, but they pinpoint the fact that we're Somali, and they take the fact that one person did something and they make a whole community. We can't have somebody represent our community like that. We are all American. We deserve representation up there. We deserve somebody who's gonna speak up for us. We need somebody who is not gonna look at us as others. We are, we belong here, we have lived here, we pay taxes, and we are not gonna stand here and we're not gonna be in this community and be othered. I have been told to die, I've been told to go back to my country. This is my country, this is the only country I know, and I am, I the representation that we need is Kiernan. He is there for our community, he has walked with us. And as city councillors up there who say they represent our community, who represent all of Lewiston, Maine, you need to start listening to your constituents. You need to start listening to the people here. How many Ward 5 members have come up here and said they need Kiernan? They have said that he listens to them, they have said that he represents them. You guys are here to represent us. This community has put you guys in these positions. You need to start listening to our community, everybody in Lewiston, Maine, and we are citizens and we are this community. So you guys need to start listening to us. That's all I'm gonna say. [3:26:06] Carl L. Sheline: Thank you. If the audience members could please refrain from speaking so we can all hear, thank you. [3:26:17] Cheryl LeCasse: I'm not a, I'm not a fan of public speaking, but I've lived [3:26:23] Carl L. Sheline: here my whole life, my parents, if you could please tell us your name, I'm sorry. [3:26:26] Cheryl LeCasse: Cheryl LeCasse, Ward 4. I've spoken with my counselor, Michael. My grandparents were here. They're immigrants too, okay? We don't have, we're not here for war. We're here for peace like everybody else. My mom and dad, my mom grew up in Auburn. My dad grew up at St. Dom's. They shut St. Dom's right down, right? That had nothing to do with us, right? So I'm here for Erin, Mrs. Sowell. I think she has fairly represented the drug addiction situation. I've had experiences in my own life. I was a mill, I was military for a little bit. I served honorably, and I had to go through hell to stay here, and I'm phoning for you if [3:27:11] Carl L. Sheline: the audience, there's a lot of chatter. If we can just have it quiet, please, like everyone, thank you. Okay, hi, quiet please, thank you, thank you. I please proceed. Hi. My name is Sophia. I'm four more three, so I'm directly speaking to Councilman Scott Harriman and any other council who may listen to me. Kieran has consistently shown up for the immigrant community in Lewiston, now when it was convenient or politically advantageous, but because he believes in building genuine relationships and standing with people during difficult times. During his work as an attorney and as a community member, he has supported individuals navigating complex legal systems, attended mosque gatherings, and taken the time to listen, to learn, and build trust with each and every one of us. These actions matter, especially in Ward 5, where many immigrants' families are experiencing fear, uncertainty, and heightened scrutiny. Ward 5 deserves a representative who reflects the will, the values, and the lived realities of its residents. Kiernan has earned the trust of this community through consistency, respect, and presence. Representation should not be imposed on a community, but chosen by it. In this moment, when immigrant communities are under attack nationally and locally, it is critical that the City Council appoint someone who will be a true advocate, not a source of division like Rin. I urge the council to respect the voices of each resident in Ward 5 and vote to appoint Kiernan. [3:29:18] Zafra Sa'id Issa: Hi, my name is Ifrah Saeed Issa. I have lived in Lewiston for over 20 years. I live in Ward 2 right now, but I also have lived in Ward 3, 4, and 5. For most of that time, I never had to explain that I am a human being. That I belong here and that I am a resident of the city. Today I feel that burning constantly. Families who have lived here for years now walk with fear of being stopped, watched, and taken. I have watched all the candidates. So some of the candidates I do not know, and I don't know their social media presence. But I do want to talk about the person I do support. Kenan has shown our community belonging and dignity. He has been there for us when our safety is at risk. He has shown us humanity, compassion, and accountability. On social media, he stood up for the immigrant community. He has requested propaganda media to correct false narratives. He does not see us as immigrants. He sees us as his friends, his neighbor, and as a human being, and he definitely does not see us as a burden to Lewiston. Many community members feel comfortable with him because he engages with us. He comes to our events, he knocks on our doors, he asks us questions, and values our feedback. Actions speak louder than words. The other members, the other applicants, I have not known them, and therefore I have not seen. But that's why I support Keenan, and he has shown us leadership. The other thing I want to say is many people already have said it, but our ex-counselor Rin Sol has repeatedly failed to represent the immigrant community and all the residents who believe that leadership should be rooted in humanity, compassion, and accountability. She has referred to ethnic community-based organizations as NGOs. She has referred to the immigrants that they all are the same, and she repeats the same toxic narrative that some of the people like the main wire is spreading. Therefore, I do not support her. I do support Kenan, and I hope the counselors sitting today is very difficult decision, but I hope you do listen to all of us, and hope you pick the one that represents the people and the voices. Thank you. Hello, [3:32:26] Hannah Sadler: my name is Hannah Sadler, and I am a Ward 4 voter. I'm speaking to address my councilor, as well as the rest of the city council. I'm asking my councilor to not only vote in favor of Kiernan Majerus Collins, but also vote against appointing Rin Sol for the vacant Ward 5 seat. The most recent city council election was meaningful. Councilor Sol ran for re-election and was not returned to office. In Lewiston, incumbency is not guaranteed, and voters have repeatedly shown they're willing to make deliberate choices about representation. When voters decide not to re-elect an incumbent, that decision matters. Appointing a recently defeated councillor back into office would effectively override the will of the voters in Ward 5. For many residents, it would feel like their voices were discounted after the election. Appointments should ensure continuity, not undue election outcomes. This is not a personal concern, but a matter of democratic process and public trust. As a Ward 4 voter, I urge my councillor to respect the results of the election and vote against this appointment. In closing, I did also want to say that I find it very, rich that the Ward 7 councillor has some audacity to bring up behavior online. Hi. [3:33:56] Public commenter: Hi, my name is Samaya. I'm in Ward 3, sorry. I want to vote for someone who has spent their life standing up for people, not just talking about change, but actually doing the work. Someone who understands what justice looks like in real life, not just on paper. Someone who has fought for civil rights, defended immigrants, and made it their career to protect people who need it the most. That's why I believe in Kiernan. What really makes me trust him is his commitment to the community. When he served on the Lewiston School Committee, he didn't just hold a position, he showed up. He spoke up for racial justice and pushed for more investment in our schools because he truly believes every child deserves a fair chance. He doesn't just care about policies, he cares about people. I want a city councilor who listens, who shows up, and who fights for all of us. Someone who sees our diversity as our strength and our future as something worth protecting. I don't just think Kiernan is a good choice for Ward 5, I believe he is the leader this moment calls for. And when we're asked who stood up for our community, who chose people over politics, and who helped move Lewiston forward, I want the answer to be clear. It was Kiernan. Thank you. Hello, my name is Neres Abdullahi. I am a resident of Ward One, and I am supporting Kiernan Majores Collins. Believes that everyone in Lewiston deserves to live with dignity, safety, and freedom, no matter where they come from, what they look like, or how long their family has been here. His working as an immigration and civil Rights attorney isn't just a job, it's a commitment to protecting people who are too often unheard, unseen, or pushed aside. Keenan has stood alongside families and, excuse me, excuse me, please stop talking, thank you, and working people when they needed someone in their corner. As a member of the Lewiston School Committee, he fought for racial justice and educational equity because he believes our children's future should never be limited by their zip code, income, or background. He understands that leadership isn't about power, it's about responsibility. It's about listening before speaking, showing up even when it's hard, making decisions that reflect compassion and fairness. Karenin believes freedom means having a real voice in your community, and knowing your leaders will stand up for you. As the next city councilor, Kiernan will lead with heart, integrity, and courage. He's committed to building a Lewiston where everyone belongs, where justice is lived, not just promised, and where hope feels possible for every family. Kiernan Majores isn't just running for office, he's running to serve. And before I leave the podium, I do want to inform the council of an applicant who has been spreading divisive propaganda. Thank you. Hello. [3:37:08] Jake McLaughlin: I'm a local business owner and I don't come to these meetings all the time. I'm sorry, your name sir? Jake McLaughlin. I don't come to these meetings all the time, I'm sorry. Do you live in Lewiston? I do, yeah, I live in Ward 7. I felt compelled to come up here because I feel like not everyone is sharing their opinion tonight, or else they would have showed up if they knew that we were going to be viewing applicants for Ward 5 on a matter of five minutes of a conversation. So I see this as really unorthodox and something that's unique in character, but I will say that the problem that we have tonight is transparency, and we want to give everyone a fair chance. If the audience [3:37:56] Carl L. Sheline: could please refrain from speaking, thank you. We want to give everyone a fair [3:38:01] Jake McLaughlin: chance, we want to make everyone feel like they're being included, right? And I think we did that with the last Ward 5 candidate that we had, but there was transparency issues there, even very basic things like the war that he lived in or the charges that he's been brought up against. So now here we are in a very unorthodox way of viewing the next applicant. So I'm looking at rules of thumb there, what is the experience, what is the ability for this next candidate to work in the best possible way, the Most efficient way with the council and I think that would be Aaron Soul I help you know multiple demographics obtain financing for mortgages and especially asylum and green card I get it. It's really tough. It's really hard. But at the same time, we need to work together. We need to figure out where our tax-paying dollars are going to. And when we have issues where, you know, you have the money that's supposed to go to gun-victim families going to NGOs or non-profits, whatever you want to call them, I mean, that's transparency issues in the nature of fraud. So we have a very big problem here. We can't just go to a friendly face. It's more than that. It's based on experience and it's based on how well that person is going to work with the council that's going to serve Lewiston. And I think that's going to be Aaron's soul. Thank you. [3:39:31] Carl L. Sheline: Thank you. Further public comment from Lewiston? [3:39:39] Beth Matthews: My name is Beth Matthews. I live in Ward 3. And I'm actually here. I was not going to say anything tonight until Councillor Martel brought up the Kiernan Majerus Collins videos because I'm the one that made them. And the reason that I made them, I was a staunch Democrat and Ed Hill gave me these audio recordings and I was Ward 3, I believe that Kiernan was actually on the school committee at the time and he knew I was a Democrat he had been to my house he had brought me paperwork he had brought me you know I think a bumper sticker a Hillary Clinton bumper sticker and it gives me these audio recordings and says Beth I'm giving them to you because everyone knows that you're a Democrat and I actually want to thank Kiernan because his behavior is the reason why I am no longer a Democrat. And I've been listening to all these scripted emotionally charged conversations and you know I have a lot of lived experience in Ward 3. Wren has helped me because the street behind me is technically Ward 5. I can't go to Ward three Scott Harriman because he doesn't like people that look like me he doesn't like people that you know don't align with his political agenda and I found it so interesting that Joshua so that we could only speak to add about that because this was a lived experience for myself and the other woman that was maligned in the press Andrew Rice the Sun Journal National AP News it went viral and we were maligned as Republicans we were both Democrats and that changed my trajectory I actually took a live audio recording of Kiernan to compare the audio of the audio that Ed gave me in the audio of Kiernan's live, and I honestly would love to this day to hear or see that verified that it was in fact his voice. So he doesn't remember, he doesn't know what he's talking about, but you know, the Sun Journal did when they were maligning us. So I just want to say that Wren has been absolutely fantastic. When I have issues, I go to Wren as Ward three, and I think that she really represents Lewiston. She also has helped a neighbor of mine on Jefferson that is really big inter-rescue with animals, and I know that she voted and emailed, so I'm here for Wren and I'm not here for Kiernan [3:42:40] Carl L. Sheline: Lewiston public commenters please step right up good [3:42:49] Bob McCarthy: evening Bob McCarthy would too I'm here in support of Wren soul everyone on that council that worked with Wren for two years once I if we can [3:42:58] Carl L. Sheline: have it quiet in the chambers please thank you please continue sir you need [3:43:02] Bob McCarthy: to think about those past two years and all the hard work that rin has done and that she worked with every single one of you she didn't always agree with you didn't always agree with her but she was always fair and she would always listen and she was always there she put in the time she put in the effort she's the only one of the five candidates that has actually tried to get elected to you to win this council seat she knocked on doors she campaigned she met with people none of the other four candidates did all they did was put their application in and hope they can avoid the hide work to get elected. I'm amazed, well I won't say amazed, but it amazes me that Kernan Collins would be considered for this position. He was the lawyer for the previous counselor and the previous counselor drops out and then his name is up there. If that isn't the epitome of quid pro quo, I don't know what is. And the last thing that this city council needs is another black eye because of how they vote. The other thing that amazes me is Kernan Collins sitting at that chair, not only denying that it was him in that audio recording. I've heard it. I believe 100% it was him. And I've talked to enough people that know about the situation that believe 100% it was him. And for him to sit there, look you in the eye, and say, not only is it not him, but he knew nothing about it. It's been out there for six or seven years. And to say to your face, I know nothing about it that tells a lot about his character and that tells you a lot about how he's going to serve so the other the other part that I wanted to mention is look at the makeup of the council you've got six men sitting up there you've got one woman you put another man up there a man that isn't as qualified is the woman you're overlooking what's that say to the 50 percent of the population of this city that only deserve 12 and a half percent of the representation? What's that say to them? How should they feel? So you look in that camera when you vote, and you tell the women in the city of Lawson, if you vote against Rin, that you don't believe they should be represented. Thank you. [3:45:59] Matthew Egren: matthew egren ward for I truly don't envy your position up there tonight if it can please be quiet [3:46:06] Carl L. Sheline: in the council chambers, thank you. Please continue, sir. As the seven of you have to [3:46:11] Matthew Egren: take and vote for an entire award and none of you live in it this is a heavyweight that you all have to bear but I also recall when to the school committee member Osmond was appointed to a two-year term because that's what our charter allowed there was no great debate about it being a bad thing i think it was but let's be honest the real reason we're all here tonight is because the charter is flawed and many of you including some of you up there have spoken on it and it needs work because as i said to all of you in my letter on the 8th, I expected there to be a special election for this seat. Now I'm not here to speak on behalf of any of the candidates that are asked to fill the seat. I am speaking in opposition to Mr. Collins filling the ward 5 seat because I fear the chaos he will bring to you guys. Very recently he was on public record at meetings threatening members of the public with possible legal action for asking public questions as a citizen of this city, as someone who's here as you all know almost every meeting I'm concerned will he if he's up there decide to take threatened me or any of us out here with legal action if he disagrees with what we have to say and can you guarantee he won't know none of you can but if you wish to silence opposition to what's being brought before you that's a damn good way for you to do it I also require recall on his time on the school committee when he spread obvious misinformation about what our school SROs do while trying to remove them from our school system, which led to former police chief Brian O'Malley, who's now our deputy administrator, where he had to publicly contradict his claims about student safety and true and explain the true role of the SRO presence within our school system. Finally, this is the man who just recently had to sue his own political party to try to get them to do what he wanted them to do in his primary versus our current counselor Harriman. I really hate to see that future council actions could end up before a court because he may disagree agree with your interpretation of the rules. Good luck guys, I wish you the best [3:48:53] Carl L. Sheline: at this further public comment from Lewiston residents. Again, Matt Roy, Ward six. Well, I'm going to take a different approach, which is, well, there is precedent in the state of Maine, as Mr. mayor the city clerk is probably aware of back in 2020 on the school committee for sad 75 which is top some Harpswell Bodingham and Bowdoin a member had to resign one of the seats in Bowdoin as he moved out of the town so there is precedent under home rule which is a long-standing legal tradition constitutional legal tradition here in the state of Maine so again the intent of the Charter is to hope in a case where the seat is vacated so soon into the term where a special election is would be called for, notwithstanding the interpretation which only serves this corporation of the city of Lewiston as their attorney. Well, the corporation attorney is waged only to serve your own purposes, and again, as stated before, as I've stated for many years now, a charter, a Charter Commission is needed, and hopefully the city administrator will put that on the agenda for you all to vote for on the next meeting in February. Thank you. Further public comment from Lewiston Residence, step right up. Let's keep things moving, thank you. [3:50:43] Lisa Jones: Hi, my name is Lisa Jones. I feel better that I sound, I'm struggling with my voice. I do live in Ward 2. I thought briefly that I was going to have to claim to live at [address] to get my full three minutes tonight, but thank you guys. People keep bringing up that a flaw with the charter is the reason that we're here, and the charter is flawed, but that's not why we're here. We're here because an ineligible candidate was allowed on the ballot in the first place. People keep saying that people voted against Wren, but that's not true. 234 people voted for Wren. There have been a lot of people coming out tonight speaking against Wren with clearly prepared packets of paper. I'M CURIOUS IF THEY WERE PAID, BECAUSE THERE ARE $200 PAYMENTS GIVEN TO ORGANIZERS ON KYRDIN'S LAST COMMUNITY ORGANIZING, HIS LAST CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORT. I DON'T KNOW OF ANYBODY WHO HAS COME OUT AND SPOKEN IN SUPPORT OF RIN THAT WAS PAID TO DO SO. So I know that you've gotten a lot of beautiful emails about her. I know that the police union and the firefighters union are supporting her. The fact that her votes reflected the greater city of Lewiston's wanting less needles and did not reflect the small portion of Lewiston that is a drug addict speaks to what she said about representing the entire city and not just her ward. I did not come prepared to say any of that tonight. I'm feeling disorganized because I didn't have a pen to take notes as you guys were talking to add to my comment. I mostly came out tonight to say that one of the candidates that is in front of you, one of the applicants, has a very long history of scandal in our city. The audio that he was talking or that he doesn't remember was pulled up on my phone. I don't have it right this second, but I will send it to each and every one of you tonight if you so desire. The room burst out in laughter when he claimed he didn't remember it, because most of this room has heard it. So he lied right to your faces. If you would like to work with him, that's a choice that I wouldn't recommend, but you guys disappoint me with most of your votes. It was very hard to sit out in the hall silently and A listen to the mayor constantly admonish the public for not being able to behave and be quiet in here, and B listen to people spread outright lies about my friend, but you have five applicants to choose from tonight. One of them is a completely horrid rotten absolutely that's time thank you if the audience [3:53:49] Carl L. Sheline: could please be quiet thank you and before we have the next app or sorry the next public comment Don Dan Stockford hello yes okay so it looks like some things have been passed around to or given to the clerk to pass around to us what is that appropriate is it not what are your thoughts on that please You please speak into the mic. My apologies. There's nothing to prohibit you from considering written materials that are submitted. Okay, I think you can decide whether you think that's fair to all the applicants, but that's, you know, it's certainly permissible for you to consider written materials. Okay, thank [3:54:36] Tyler Tracy: you. Please continue, sir. Thank you, Tyler Tracy, Ward six. I've lived in Lewiston for 10 years, and we, my wife and I, haven't really been involved in politics much, but we started considering it more deeply since this past year. We had a swat team show up in our neighborhood, and there were snipers in our backyard, so there's certainly been some negative impacts on the city, and anybody that has a record for public safety with gun violence and with drug addiction in this community has our support, so we please consider written school tonight. Thank you. Further [3:55:19] Carl L. Sheline: comment from Lewson residents. Hey, [3:55:24] Public commenter: my name is, I live in world two. I don't usually come to these events, I have four kids to race, but I came tonight because of what's going on in our city. I'm not voting or I'm not aligning with any party, either Democrat or Republican. I came here to listen what people have to say and the applicants who actually put their application in front of you. I own a business and I do have some employees. When I hire people, I look into some tools. One of them is resumes and also their experience. experience, and when I looked at the five applicants who submitted their application, I looked at one candidate specifically, Rain Sol. She worked here for two years. She knows what work has been done. She also has a relationship with the councilors. She also ran for the election for about a year ago, I believe, and she became second place in that race. And one of the candidates who was sitting right next to you guys, he would say, and I don't remember if it was Sun Journal or, I don't know which news, but when the other candidate who was not right now with us he was represented for that person he said so-and-so is with the law and the facts with him and that was not true that was false because after this very counselor voted for investigation literally less than a week that person had to resign so therefore brain soul have a lot of experience for this position. I think she will do a great job. I'm a little bit disappointed in the news about the social media that she has done. And if she's been appointed for this position, this is a big if, I'm personally requesting her to apologize to the whole community. She has to apologize if she's got selected for that. And I wanted to say that because I'm not a big fan of social media. I only have Facebook. I don't have TikTok or Twitter or Snapchat. Whatever she wrote there, and people [3:58:00] Carl L. Sheline: are horrified. The audience could please be quiet. Thank you. We need her to [3:58:04] Public commenter: refrain from it, and also we need her to send an apology towards the community. Therefore, this is not about emotional stuff. We need to be specific about who we choose in this. AND WE DID HAVE A REPRESENTATION, BUT THAT REPRESENTATIVE HAS FAILED US AS A COMMUNITY AS SOMALI. AND WE SORRY ABOUT THAT. THAT'S TIME. [3:58:33] Andrew Jones: ANDREW JONES, WARD TWO. YOU RECEIVED SOME MATERIAL PASSED OUT BY THE CITY CLERK. IT CONTRADICTS SOMETHING THAT ONE OF YOUR APPLICANTS SAID TODAY ABOUT THEIR PARTICIPATION IN THE HARASSMENT OF ED HILL. PLEASE EXCUSE ME. SORRY, ONE SECOND. PLEASE BE QUIET. you Carl can you just like start ejecting people at this point how many times have you said that please continue sir yeah so if you look at that you'll see that there is a cease harassment order issued by the Lewiston Police Department towards mr. Majora's Collins so for him to go up there and say that he had nothing to do with it had has no knowledge of that he's lucky he's not under oath right there because he would have perjured himself and if he doesn't like that he can sue me and i also think it's very interesting that you know beth matthews was here talking about the videos that she created back when that first happened i thought it was interesting that when she got up here to speak that majoris collins fled the room that man is a coward and has no business at city council thank you further comments from [3:59:43] Carl L. Sheline: from Lewiston residence is there anyone out in the hall who wants to speak hi [3:59:55] Public commenter: everyone can you guys hear me sorry it's been a long night for all of you Councilmen and I just want I just have a few things to say for me I care about Lewiston a lot my name is I live in Ward 7 and I am here to support Kiernan tonight before you start side eyeing me or whatever I need to tell you guys why I support Kiernan. I think Kiernan is a man who has proved himself in the community to be an ally, to respect the community, to come and listen to the community, and he is the person to do this job. Erin, or Rin Sol, has been saying some really disgusting stuff on social media, and you guys have all been passed, there's packages that have been passed around to you guys, and that's evidence of her saying disgusting stuff. AND TONIGHT, I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT MOSTLY THE WARD FIVE RESIDENTS WHO HAVE SPOKEN AND WHO HAVE SPENT THIS TIME JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT SOMEONE THAT THEY CARE AND WANT TO BE IN THIS POSITION GETS ELECTED. SO ONE PERSON FROM WARD FIVE SPOKE ON BEHALF OF REN, WHILE 15 PEOPLE SPOKE ON BEHALF OF KIERNAN. THAT TELLS YOU A LOT. THAT'S NOT JUST NUMBERS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES, HONESTLY. So at the end of the day, we need to realize that we need to look at the numbers, we need to look at majority rules, we need to look at who's in the room tonight, and we need to be able to be representative of this community. There's a lot of talk about other things that have been addressed here that I don't really want to get into, but I just encourage the councilmen and I just encourage all of you on the council seat to be able to vote the right way. And that is voting for Kiernan tonight, because he is the one to do this job. And if you guys want to vote for someone who wants to divide the community, that tells you a lot. That tells the community a lot about who you are and who you represent. We want Kiernan, and we want you to vote for him, and we want you to encourage other people to give him a chance. Yes, there's been a lot of talk and drama surrounding Kiernan, but at the end of the day, he is young, he is a lawyer, he is EXPERIENCED, HE HAS CONNECTIONS TO LEWISTON THAT GO WAY BACK. HE HAS SERVED, HE WENT TO BATES COLLEGE, HE'S FROM THE COMMUNITY, HE IS FOR THE COMMUNITY, AND HE IS PERSON, HE IS A PERSON WHO BRINGS THE COMMUNITY TOGETHER. THEREFORE, I THINK EVERYONE SHOULD GIVE KIERNAN A CHANCE. THERE'S JUST BEEN WAY TOO MUCH TALK AND DRAMA ABOUT HIM. AND I DON'T THINK HE'S BEEN GIVEN A FAIR CHANCE TO BE ABLE TO PROVE HIS LEADERSHIP, TO PROVE THE KIND OF INTEGRITY THAT HE HAS. So my councilman Ward Seven Mark Mr. Martell, I encourage you to really vote right. I heard earlier you say you said some stuff about videos. I haven't never seen those kind of videos or anything like that, but yes I 'm a war fibers. I am a Ward seven residents and I am here to support Kiernan and I'm sorry that this is a long night. My [4:02:56] Carl L. Sheline: name is John Bazanet and I'm a resident of Ward 3 in Lewiston and I have no familiarity with any of those people that are being considered tonight, but I do consider this, that Wren lost her seat for 40 votes and that means to me that there was people there that really wanted to see her in Ward 5 and I think that it's a whole injustice, a travesty, that's that's not even considered in filling the seat that was taken away from her. Thank you so I 'm not as good as if it but I will try my best. Okay, my name is Marianne and I live in Ward 5. I'm here to support Karen and I'm here because he will do great job in Lewiston. He will support the people of Lewiston and I support that. Tonight I am hoping that you guys appoint him and that he wins. So she said a lot but we are only here to support him and we are not apologetic of the our support for Karen in thank you so much further Lewiston residents, can someone check in the hall to see if anyone who hasn't spoken is from Lewiston and wants to come up? I think we're I think we're all of us in has spoken at this point or the loose end is here. Wait, did you want to speak sir? No, okay. Anyone not from Lewiston wish to speak? Well [4:05:43] David Jones: it's a long night huh? Absolutely amazing. My name is David Jones, I'm from the town of Falmouth. [4:05:52] Carl L. Sheline: Please be quiet, thank you. Please continue sir. I'm here tonight, you know [4:05:57] David Jones: I've been I've had a passion for Lewiston going back way to John Jenkins. He was a good friend of mine, a lot of people in this room might know who he is, rest in peace now. He's a level-headed guy and I like to think of myself as that too and you know I see everything that's going on here in this in this chamber and I think that the biggest cause of this was at the beginning of the process when you allowed i'm an osman to be on the on the ballot so whoever was responsible for that has caused all This calamity within your city, so your actions, they make a difference. It really does, it really does. I mean, you think about this, he never should have been on the ballot. So that being said, Ren Soul is really the only person that should have been on the ballot. It, the people in Ward Five voted for, she's demonstrated to each and every one of you up there that she has the talent and the skills and the love and passion for the town. Look, you're not going to, you're up there, you know this, you're not going to please all the people all the time, you know. It's not going to happen, you know darn good and well. You're going to always have half the people to like what you have and the other people have to don't. But you know I know her. She's a great gal. She cares. And so, and she has the qualifications. You made a mistake one time. You allowed Ayman Osman on the ballot. You allowed him and swore him in regardless of the fact that he wouldn't even give you his legal address and all the other background items that we all know about. So I would just implore you guys to really think this through. I mean, Lewiston doesn't need any more division. Whoever allowed Iman Osman on the ballot caused the division, and it's, I don't know what part you all had in it, but that's where the, that's where the guilt lies. You know, these folks want representation, everybody wants representation, but when you allow something to happen that never should have and then you try and point fingers, just doesn't look good. So please, you know, I care about Lewiston, I love Lewiston, I think it's a great place. The LLA Maine is, you know, is the future, so don't make the same mistake twice. This guy Kiernan, I'm sorry, I don't see it. No, I don't see it working for you guys. You put them up there, it's going to cause you a lot of grief, but this is your city and you guys run it and you make the decisions. I'm just seeing from the view from the outside looking in. I've studied it and I think the best person for the job is Renssel [4:08:44] Carl L. Sheline: thank you very much. Further public comment, my [4:08:53] Sherry Oliver Riley: name is Sherry Oliver Riley. I am a retired pastor for the Methodist Church. I 'm not exactly sure how to, I'M SORRY, WHERE DO YOU LIVE? I LIVE IN FREEPORT. PLEASE CONTINUE. AND I AM NOT A RESIDENT HERE, BUT I FOLLOW THE THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN LOUISTON DUE TO FAMILY BEING HERE AND OTHER THINGS. I CARE ABOUT A LOT OF COMMUNITIES. BUT THE THING THAT I'M HEARING TONIGHT IS A LOT OF PEOPLE COMING UP WITH PAPERS, READING FROM THEM WHEN THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW THE NAME OF THE PERSON THEY'RE STANDING IN PROPERLY proper line for. I have known Rensoul her whole life, spending her evenings instead of sitting home by the fire and making herself comfortable, going out and cooking and taking meals to the homeless, or going out on Saturday mornings and helping to feed breakfast in the homeless places. This is about community, and she loves this community. Now, I don't know the other applicants, And I have no right to say anything because I don't but I do know that she worked hard for this election And I really feel the right thing to do would be to honor the voters of Lewiston Ward 5. Thank you [4:10:17] Carl L. Sheline: further public comment can you please I can if I can you also speak into the mic both of you need to [4:10:48] Public commenter: my name is Madagascar I am here tonight to vote for Kenan [4:11:10] Zafra Sa'id Issa: i have not much more to talk so thank you all mr [4:11:17] Carl L. Sheline: mayor hold on one second is that you're finished okay yes finished okay thank you councillor chittum yes we know the speaker's residence please oh thank you yes i'm sorry what where does he live where [4:11:38] Public commenter: does he live [address], apartment 121. [4:11:47] Zafra Sa'id Issa: 22 Knox Street. [4:11:49] Carl L. Sheline: Okay, yeah, that's in Lewiston. All right, thank you, thank you. Glad we cleared that up. Okay, if we can have it quiet, please. Is there anybody else who would like to speak? Because we're trying, yeah, step right up. [4:12:09] Public commenter: My name is Hassan. I live in Lewiston. I just have a question for the mayor and the councillors. If somebody says a reaction was not done for fear of a preferred person was not or may have not been elected, what would you tell them? [4:12:34] Carl L. Sheline: Further public comment? [4:12:37] Sherry Blumenthal: Good evening, councillors. My name is Sherry Blumenthal. I'm from Ward 7. Thank you everybody here for speaking your voice, for listening. it's been a long night and I've been taking it in and I just had some perspectives to share I appreciate everybody who's come up and spoken about the previous election and the voters who cast votes for the candidates then that was then and this is now that was a moment in time and it was valid and it was important and there was a very different moment in time and in lieu of have an election you have many voices in this room speaking for a particular candidate but what you also have as many Voices having the opportunity to share the real concerns they may have for another, and I think that needs to be heated. You're not going to please everybody all the time, but there's a distinction between that and candidates who may unintentionally or intentionally actively undermine the safety of any one of our communities, and that's an important consideration at this moment. And I think also in any other, in any job interview, you're always evaluating soft skills and hard skills. I've done many and they're hard. I think the council also actually has an opportunity now to ask itself what hard skills would any one of these candidates bring at a critical moment in time that are missing. It's always great to bring on somebody you're comfortable working with. There is nothing more that, you know, feels better than a team that you've been in before and you've, it's been successful. Then and this is now, and we have to think about where we are at this very moment in time and which somebody mentioned earlier is a crisis point on many levels, and we need to ask ourselves both what are the hard skills and the soft skills the person we're bringing in are going to bring, and where can we move them both in hard skills or soft skills and move them to work for this city as a [4:14:35] Carl L. Sheline: collective. So thank you. Thank you. Further public comment, last call here. I think we're, everyone who has spoke who wanted to speak, please step up to the podium, sir. Yeah, okay, my [4:15:32] Walter Hill: name is Walter Hill, 10 Lubier Avenue, and I came down here because I think my counselor misunderstood what I wanted to say. Was I wanted a special election. I think that's the only way to go. The only people that are afraid of elections for people that can't win them, and my party has far too long been in the habit of doing backroom deals. I mean, the other party does it, they just do it for different special interests, corporations, you know, pharmaceutical companies, whatever, wheelers, and we do it for our special interests, unions, immigrant communities, and it's not right no matter who you're doing it for. And Kiernan was asked point-blank what happened, and he said he didn't do it. Then he said he didn't remember. Well, he must remember because I have another recorded call where he admitted to doing it, and he knows that as well. But I just want to say it's time our party stopped looking at, you know, trying to do this venture interest and just got money out of politics, because as long as there are Money in politics, these folks won't ever stop, you know, doing back room deals to get positions. Because as a lawyer you get position, you've got connections, you're this, you're that, you get more jobs, you're worth more money to the firm. It's just not right. And I ran for chair because Charlie Sewell went down and ran and nobody was running against him, so I decided that would be unfair, have a Republican, you know, running our party. A thousand people were there from Obama, and they didn't know who it was. Anyway, I'll start off by saying I managed and owned businesses for my entire life in this community. And I lived four years to go to New York City, where I was the only white person in the school. I met and loved all my immigrant friends at school. That night that this happened, I just got home from surgery, and he knew I had gone through that, and he abused me. I had talked to him several times about running for that seat and I know that he was there and Owen was there but Sophia I saw her around the corner 20 minutes before but she never said a word. Now if I was a liar I would just say I saw her there but I heard a third person walking on my stones where my garden is and they were both on my front guard concrete stoop. So needless to say I think that if you can't trust him that's time thank you. [4:18:36] Carl L. Sheline: with his word what no that 's time thank you any further public comment I think we I think we've exhausted didn't you I did speak I just yeah no we're not no not doing that thanks all right further public comment going ONES. SO DO YOU WANT TO OFFER A PUBLIC COMMENT? YEAH, OKAY. [4:19:17] Public commenter: My name is Isaac Ibrami. [4:19:32] Carl L. Sheline: If you can just use the mic when you're speaking, too. He said he lives on [street]. I'm like, yeah. He said, I am here to support the lawyer, Kiernan. Yes. Yeah, that I support him. Yes. Yes. I told them. Final public comment. [4:20:25] Jason Paul: So my name is Jason Paul. I'm a longtime friend of Keenan Majerus Collins. I am from Massachusetts. Don't hold that against me. The thing I would say about Keenan is that he fought so hard to bring representation to Lewiston. And sort of the characterization of the conversation with Walter Hill that was, oh, he harassed him. He was mean to him. He was this to them. No, the bottom line is that Walter Hill went back on his word and made it harder for a Somali counselor to get elected. And Kiernan was upset about that. There was no harassment. There was no broad thing. And the bottom line is when you fight hard for a community, sometimes it's not always the prettiest it's ever going to be, but you have to fight for a community that needs to be fought for. And that's what Kenan has done in his time in Lewiston. That's why I'm so, that's why I drive up. That's why I'm so proud to be his friend. And I think when you listen to the comments that so many of the other speakers who spoke on behalf of Rin said, there was absolutely an unceasing tinge about who counts and who doesn't and the comments that were made on social media that she has have been clear and overwhelming about who counts and who doesn't and that's really the question before the council in this election in this election it was a 14 to 1 group of people from Ward 5 who came up here and spoke in favor of Kiernan one person spoke in favor of Rin. So if she had her 230 something votes who love her, where are they? And the community, clearly in Ward 5, wants Kiernan. You can do what you want, but the bottom line is the community, the people in Ward 5, they want Kiernan, and you know people talk about the election, you know, you know Osman was allowed on the ballot legally. I know you don't like that. I know you know that's not the law you want it to be but that is what the law was it was completely what the law was and so I understand that when the more controversies came out a decision to resign was the right one no one here is disputing that but the idea that the election should be overturned and basically ignore the fact that the warders of Ward 5 voted out RIN and in favor imam because of what basically amounts to paperwork snafus that's just not right we know what the voters want we know what they wanted when they voted in november we know what the voters want who came to speak here tonight we know what the voters want now you may not like what the voters want but that's what they want and it's important in democracy to give the voters what they want when they want it based on the fact of who they're supporting who they didn't want to be their city councilor and who they now do based on a 15-1 majority want to be their city councillor that's all I have to say thank you very much [4:23:28] Carl L. Sheline: Can yeah step forward but Director Morris can you we're losing a lot of time by if they can't Lieutenant Director Morris can you see if there's anyone else in the hall who wants to speak we're no one else okay so if you want to speak go get behind Elizabeth Eames so that way we can not lose time [4:24:00] Chief Carly Conley: I WAS TOLD THAT THERE WERE PAPERS THAT WERE FACEBOOK POSTS, PUBLIC POSTS FROM FACEBOOK THAT GOT TO NOT EVERY COUNSELOR. [4:24:11] Amran: SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE PUBLIC POSTINGS ON FACEBOOK WERE PASSED OUT TO EVERY [4:24:19] Carl L. Sheline: COUNSELOR. ANYBODY ELSE WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK WHO HASN'T SPOKEN? GOING ONCE, GOING TWICE. PUBLIC COMMENT IS NOW CLOSED. COUNSELORS, DO WE WANT TO TAKE A BRIEF RECESS? [4:24:38] Susan G. Longchamps: COUNSELOR LONGCHAMPS. I DO JUST WANT TO SHARE WITH [4:24:41] Carl L. Sheline: THE PUBLIC THAT... CAN I PUT THAT ON PAUSE FOR ONE SECOND? DO WE WANT TO TAKE A BRIEF [4:24:46] Susan G. Longchamps: RECESS, COUNSELORS? I WANT TO FINISH WHAT I'M SAYING, PLEASE. I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT. [4:24:52] Carl L. Sheline: GO AHEAD AND THEN WE'LL TAKE A BRIEF RECESS. [4:24:57] Susan G. Longchamps: SO SOMEONE STOOD AT THE PODIUM AND SAID THAT THERE WAS ONLY ONE PERSON THAT STOOD UP IN FAVOR OF REN SOUL. WE HAVE RECEIVED A LOT OF E-MAILS, EVERY ONE OF US SITTING HERE ON COUNCIL. HOW MANY E-MAILS, IF I COULD GET A LITTLE BIT OF HELP BECAUSE I CAN'T REMEMBER THE EXACT NUMBER THAT WERE IN FAVOR OF REN FROM LOUISTON RESIDENTS, OVER 40. [4:25:32] Carl L. Sheline: COUNSELORS, ONLY ONE COUNSELOR HAS BEEN RECOGNIZED. [4:25:35] Susan G. Longchamps: I HAVE 20 EMAILS THAT I'M HOLDING THAT I'M GOING TO READ AFTER THE RECESS THAT ARE ALL IN FAVOR OF RENSAULT RESIDENTS FROM WARD FIVE. THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT I WANTED right now so I hope you I hope you stay because there are a lot of people that feel as though Renssel represented that ward well so it is not just one I have a pile that I'm going to read to the city of Lewiston after this recess and with [4:26:17] Carl L. Sheline: that we're gonna take a brief recess and then come back here thank you okay we're back we're back please take your seats or move your conversations out to the hall hello thank you hey thank you that's enough all right madam clerk are we are we ready to come back I think so you are on the air yes okay I think you all for coming back here for home audience for joining us I'M GOING TO RECOGNIZE YOU, COUNSELOR LONGCHIPS, YOU WERE SAYING. THANK YOU. [4:37:29] Susan G. Longchamps: AS I SAID, I'M GOING TO READ SOME OF THE E-MAILS THAT CAME IN FAVOR OF MRS. SOLE. MY WIFE AND I VOTED FOR REN SOLE-LACLAIRE. SHE SHOULD HAVE WON UNOPPOSED AS OSMAN'S RESIDENCY ISSUE SHOULD HAVE KEPT HIM OFF THE BALLOT. [Nicola May: My] name is, I'm not going to share the name, and I'm a Ward 5, I live in Ward 5 here in Lewiston. I voted for Rensoul in the last election and would love to see her appointed to the Ward 5 seat that is now vacant. She spoke up on important issues, operated with integrity, and represented us well in her first term. [Carl L. Sheline: To] the Mayor and the City Council, I am writing to respectively urge the Council and Mayor to appoint Wren Soule to fill the vacant Ward 5 Council seat. Wren is the only remaining individual who received votes for Ward 5 residents in the most recent election, providing her with a clear and direct mandate from the election. She previously served her full term without reprimand or disciplinary action and fulfilled her responsibilities in a very professional and responsible manner. She drafted an advance ordinance that incorporated thoughtful public safety measures. this is from again someone from Ward 5 which all of our counselors do have these emails I am writing to respectively express my support for the appointment of Rin Sol to Ward 5 to the Ward 5 council seat during her previous term Rin represented Ward 5 with integrity grit and honesty qualities that are essential for effective and trustworthy local leadership. There's more to it but I'm gonna keep going. Dear members of the City Council, I am writing to respectfully recommend Rensoul for the Ward 5 position. Rensoul has demonstrated a strong commitment to the Lewiston community and brings a thoughtful and engaged approach to local issues her ability to listen collaborate and advocate for residents makes her well suited to represent Ward 5 with integrity and care my name is and she does say her name but I'm not going to share that I own a business in Ward 5 on East Avenue I am writing to urge all of you to unanimously vote tonight and appoint Rin Sol to her Ward 5 seat. She has more than proved herself to be an asset to the City of Lewiston and has worked very hard to present for all the residents, not just Ward 5 constituents. Let's see here. Here's another one from a Ward 5 resident of Bartlett Street. I want to begin by acknowledging all the applicants and thanking them for their willingness to serve our community. With that said, I strongly believe that the two individuals who ran in the recent election should be the only candidates considered in this for this vacancy. With the resignation of Mr. Osmond, the most appropriate and responsible decision is to return the seat to Rin Sol. I have spoken with many residents. I have heard clearly and repeatedly that the community supports Rin Sol and wants her back in that seat. She has served not only ward five with dedication, but the entire city as well. That fact has become increasingly clear, not just to me, but to the residents throughout our area. It is deeply concerning to many of us that the Mayor appears to be operating with a political agenda aimed at securing his own re-election. His initial appointment did not work, and now it appears he is willing to appoint an attorney who previously represented Mr. Osman in order to secure votes that would benefit him politically. I find this behavior appalling. While residents like myself may not always have a platform, we are paying attention and we are tired of being disregarded. We are tired of feeling taken advantage of and we expect our elected officials to do what is right, not what is politically convenient. convenient. Mr. Collins has repeatedly demonstrated an inability to work respectively with those who hold differing viewpoints and many residents are concerned with Ward 5 that Ward 5 will be deliberately filled by anyone other than Mrs. Soule simply to satisfy a political demand tied to the mayor's reelection. That is unacceptable. It undermines trust in this council and disrespects the will of the voters. I urge you to do the right thing and honor the voice of the constituents and restore Rin Sol from the ward 5 seat. This is not an anonymous letter. Her name is on there and her address is on there or two [4:44:00] Carl L. Sheline: council iron or I'm sorry council longchamps were you finished for now yes thank [4:44:07] Scott A. Harriman: you council airman thank you so the council did receive a lot of emails regarding this appointment I will note that most of them did not come from ward five residents I would also like to note that I appreciate everyone who contacts us but a couple points that at least carry more weight with me one if you sign your name to what you write that carries more weight with me and two if you write your own thoughts and not copy and paste something that the applicant has put out there for you to copy and paste that carries a lot more weight with me counselor [4:44:48] Bret Martel: Martel, did you have your hand up? I did, Mr. Mayor, thank you. Forgive me if my count isn't perfect, I was tallying it as I got here today. But in this hand I hold 61 emails to public comment for in Seoul for this appointment seat, 55 from different individuals, most of which did sign their name and did put what Ward they're in, and a very many that I did see that were from Ward 5, maybe not the majority, but a very many. It also includes a recommendation from the Lewiston Police Patrol Union and the Firefighters Union. In this hand I hold the combined letters of support for every other applicant and every other letter that came in against Rinsoul [4:45:42] Carl L. Sheline: for the public comment before we take nominations or public. Whoa, sorry, it's getting late. Further comments and discussion FROM THE COUNCIL. SO THERE WAS SOME PAPERWORK [4:45:56] Joshua L. Nagine: THAT WAS DROPPED OFF AT THE CLERK'S DESK THAT WAS ASKED TO BE DISTRIBUTED AMONGST THE COUNCIL. ONE OF THEM IS, I BELIEVE, A STATEMENT FROM AARON GILCHRIST WHO IS RUNNING FOR COMMISSIONER. AND ONE OF THEM IS, I BELIEVE, SOCIAL MEDIA SHOTS THAT PEOPLE HAVE ASKED THEM TO BE PASSED OUT. WE WOULD HAVE TO VOTE FOR THAT TO MAKE TO MAKE THAT DECISION. SO DO WE WANT TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION? DO WE WANT TO PASS THIS THE INFORMATION THAT WAS GIVEN TO THE [4:46:29] Carl L. Sheline: CLERK GAP? UH I APPRECIATE THAT COUNCILOR NAJING. UM SINCE WE HAVE UH DAN HERE AT THE AT THE READY, UH DO WE NEED TO VOTE OR WHAT IS YOUR RECOMMENDATION HERE MR STOCKFORD? AS FAR AS WHETHER TO DISTRIBUTE THE CORRECT WHAT WAS HANDED OUT, UM I THINK IF THERE'S A LACK OF consensus on the council, it would be appropriate to take a vote on whether to entertain that those written submissions. I guess at this point I will, let's just make it clear, do we have madam clerk, would that just be a motion to enter that into the record as it were? I think the question is, and correct me if I'm wrong councillor Nageen, but to decide to distribute the material that was provided by members, by speakers, to the full council, is that the question? Right, so the city attorney is recommending that the council would take a vote on that, whether they would distribute the material to themselves or not. Yeah, I think it's fair to for there to be either a consensus or about. I guess I'm counselor Trittum, yes, if [4:47:42] David B. Chittim: If there's no consensus, I will move that this material, which I have no knowledge of, be distributed so that we've got something that was submitted to the council in front of us. [4:47:52] Carl L. Sheline: Do we have a second? Second. A second by Council Roy. Madam Clerk, please call the vote. Council from Ward 2? Yes. Ward 3? Yes. Ward 4? Yes. Ward 6? Yes. Ward 7? [4:48:04] Mecca D: Yes. Ward 1? Ward 1. Just give them all to me. [4:48:16] Carl L. Sheline: Thank you, yes, and then, yeah, yes for me. Yeah, there's [4:48:39] Joshua L. Nagine: not, there's, it appears there's only four packets, but the statement from Erin Gilchrist, everybody has, so all [4:48:55] Carl L. Sheline: right well we're looking at that looking over these new documents yes counselor Chittum yes [4:49:02] David B. Chittim: I just look like, I'm sorry, I'd just like to clarify for the public that it appears what we're looking at are screenshots of social media posts. I'm the least person, the least qualified person up here to identify them as such, but even I think there's social media both. [4:49:22] Carl L. Sheline: Further comments from the Council? Councilman Longchamps, did you have something? [4:49:33] Susan G. Longchamps: I would just say, just on this front page. [4:49:36] Carl L. Sheline: The front page of what? OK. This one here. [4:49:41] Susan G. Longchamps: IT APPEARS THAT MR. CHARLES IS TALKING ABOUT FRAUD, AND REN SOLE SAYS, OF COURSE, THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE. THEY ALL DO. now after reading this in my opinion I think she's talking about people that are committing fraud that's my opinion I don't think she's singling out I think she's saying that people that are committing fraud that 's what I see on that first page thank [4:50:14] Carl L. Sheline: you for the car. Yes, Councillor Martel. [4:50:18] Bret Martel: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I recognize some of these screenshots to be videos, and without the video, I don't think we have the context as to what Ms. Soule would have been responding to or commenting on. And I don't think it's fair to make inferences or insinuations as to what she's saying without either the context of the video or at least some contextual testimony on her own behalf. I would like to point out that when I called out another applicant, I at least provide him the opportunity to defend himself against my accusations. [4:50:54] Carl L. Sheline: Yeah, I just wanted to be clear for the public, I did not ask anyone to submit an application, nor did I ask anyone to not submit an application. Further questions or comments or discussion from the Council? [4:51:11] David B. Chittim: Councilor Chiddum. I would like to thank everybody of all diverse opinions who took the time to come out here tonight and express your views. We are faced with a very difficult decision up here, and I appreciate your willingness to put your face and your words forward so that we can hear them. It's obvious that no matter what this council does up here this evening, there are going to be some angry or upset or disappointed or sorrowful people that cannot be helped because the situation we're in, but I do want to express my appreciation to all the various views that have been heard. I have listened to all of them, and they have actually helped me in a dilemma that I have been wrestling with for two weeks now. This is not an easy situation, and I appreciate your willingness to speak to us. Thank you. Questions, comments [4:52:07] Carl L. Sheline: from the counselor or a mental clerk? We were ready to take nominations at any time. Is that correct? Yes, sir. Okay, Councillor Chittim, I [4:52:19] David B. Chittim: nominate Chrissy Noble. Do we have other nominations? [4:52:24] Bret Martel: Councillor Martel Rinso, do [4:52:28] Carl L. Sheline: we have other nominations? Going once, going twice. Madam Clerk, have you recorded these nominations? Yes. Councillor Chittim nominated applicant Soul, and Councillor Martel nominated applicant Noble, and Councillor Martel nominated counts applicant Soul. Does that sound right, you too? I know it's getting late, but those are the kind of mistakes I make. Madam, DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER NOMINATIONS BEFORE WE PUT THESE NOMINATIONS [4:53:10] David B. Chittim: FOR A VOTE? MOVE, WE CLOSE NOMINATIONS. [4:53:14] Carl L. Sheline: DO WE HAVE A SECOND FOR THAT? SECOND. MADAM CLERK, PLEASE, I GUESS, VOTE. WE ARE NOW TO CLOSE DEBATE AND THEN PROCEED WITH THE NEXT VOTE. SURE. THE VOTE IS TO CLOSE NOMINATIONS. COUNCILOR, FROM WORD TWO? YES. WORD THREE? YES. WORD FOUR? YES. WORD SIX? YES. WORD SEVEN? YES. WORD ONE? YES. MR. MAYOR? YES. SO NOMINATIONS ARE NOW CLOSED. ARE YOU READY FOR... INDEED, WE ARE. COUNSELOR, FROM WORD TWO? RENZEL. WORD THREE? MS. NOBLE. WORD FOUR? [4:54:01] Michael R. Roy: MS. NOBLE. [4:54:02] Zafra Sa'id Issa: WORD SIX? [4:54:04] Chief Carly Conley: MS. NOBLE. Ward 7. [4:54:07] Bret Martel: Aaron Soule. Ward 1. [4:54:13] Carl L. Sheline: Ms. Noble. Mr. Mayor. Yes, Kristi Noble. So by a vote of 5 to 2, so Ms. Noble received 5 and Renssel received 2. So then the motion before you is to appoint Kristi Noble to fill the vacant Ward 5 position on the City Council. said appointment to be effective January 1st January 20th 26 and to expire January 3rd 2028. Ma'am emotion so move once again. Did I interrupt you, madam clerk? No. Okay, Councillor Chittim, so move. I'll second by council Harriman. Madam clerk, please call the vote. Councillor from Ward 2, yes. Madam Clerk, could you please explain what's happening sure so the motion before you is to appoint Chrissy noble to fill the vacant word five position on the lewiston city council set appointment to be effective as of january 20th 26 and to expire january 3rd 2028. i'm sorry can you can we have it quiet in the chambers please thank you madam clerk please call the vote council from word two no word three yes word four yes word five i'm sorry word six yes word seven no word one yes mr mayor yes motion passed by a vote of five to two. Thank you. We'll give everyone a few minutes to clear out and then we will proceed with the rest of the agenda. Madam Clerk, I would like, unless there's strong objection from the Council, I would like to move up the appointment for School Committee that was the better option. We'll give it half a second. Madam Clerk, I will say that [4:56:17] Susan G. Longchamps: I'm so glad he wasn't [4:56:32] Carl L. Sheline: please move quickly, move quickly. You can talk outside or in the hall. All conversations to the hall please. Thank you. Madam Clerk, item number 10. Item number 10, confirmation of Mayor Chalene's nomination to fill the current [4:57:03] David B. Chittim: point of order. Yes, I'm sorry, Madam Clerk, Mr. Mayor, the decision to move items around is typically done either without objection, it is a suspension of the rules, and it is a Council decision. So I would ask in this instance that you refer to the Council and ask for this item to be adjusted on the agenda. Yes, [4:57:29] Carl L. Sheline: thank you, Councillor Chittim. I thought I mentioned that previously before asking, but yes, unless there's stronger objection, I'd like to move this item up. Seeing no strong, seeing no strong objection, I'm, Clerk, please proceed with item number 10. Item number 10, confirmation of Mayor Shalane's nomination to fill the current vacancy in the Ward 5 position on the School Committee. Requested action, to receive the Mayor's nomination and to appoint Linnea Hawkins to fill the vacant Ward 5 position on the Lewiston School Committee. Set appointment to be effective as of January 20th, 26, with a term ending January 4th, 2027. I have a motion. Please, so moved. Councillor Harriman, second saying by Councillor Nagine. Discussion among the Council? Yes, Councillor Martel, I'd like to [4:58:20] Bret Martel: make a motion to table this until the next meeting when ward 5 has representation for the vote and the mayor won't be voting on his own nomination now that seat is no longer vacant and there is representation for Ward five residents do we so that was a motion [4:58:37] Carl L. Sheline: It's been seconded. Okay, discussion on this motion. I will, if I can put Council Harriman on the spot, I understand there's going to be a retreat happening tomorrow. Could you speak to that and the necessity of confirming this appointment [4:58:52] Scott A. Harriman: tonight? Yeah, I was going to mention that school committee has a retreat SCHEDULED FOR TOMORROW EVENING. IT WOULD BE IDEAL IF ALL OF THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS WERE THERE. THAT'S SORT OF THE INITIAL ORIENTATION AND GOAL SETTING MEETING THAT WE HAVE AT THE BEGINNING OF EACH TERM. [4:59:15] Carl L. Sheline: EXCUSE ME, COUNSELOR CHIDDUM. [4:59:16] David B. Chittim: ARE YOU OKAY, MR. MAYOR? I'M GOING TO LIVE. BAD NEWS. WELL, I'M GLAD OF THAT, MR. MAYOR. A RETREAT, IS THIS A PUBLIC [4:59:26] Scott A. Harriman: meeting? It is a public meeting. I don't believe there's public participation, but it is a public meeting because it's a meeting of the entire body. So if I may [4:59:37] David B. Chittim: mr. mayor dialogue and we're not supposed to do that please continue talking as you are already doing now thank you thank you so a nominee to the school committee could attend and observe the meeting that would be [4:59:55] Carl L. Sheline: possible yes okay thank you further discussion from the council before we vote on councilman [5:00:01] Susan G. Longchamps: longchamps yes i would be in favor of waiting until the counselor from ward 5 is sitting there and she too can put her vote in i understand there is a retreat but i do think whoever is appointed if in fact your person that you have suggested is nominated they could be caught up to speed from mr harriman or someone else that's sitting on the committee from what i've heard from other folks that are part of that committee it's not critical that someone [5:00:36] Carl L. Sheline: is there at this retreat councilman did you have other thoughts i just wanted to ask if [5:00:43] Scott A. Harriman: the council thought that having the newly appointed ward 5 counselor would change the outcome of the vote and if that is if that would be worth not allowing the this person to participate in the retreat yes they can attend but they would not be able to participate and ask questions and offer their offer their input as far as goals and things like that [5:01:10] Carl L. Sheline: councillor Nagin yes so I understand the point of this but I'd also said that [5:01:16] Joshua L. Nagine: THIS IS BASICALLY PROCEDURAL AND I'M FAIRLY SURE THAT IF THE MAYOR EVEN ABSTAINED FROM THIS APPOINTMENT IT WOULD STILL PASS SO YEAH [5:01:32] Carl L. Sheline: I DO THINK THAT LINEA HAWKINS IS A COUNT AND A NOMINEE I'M SORRY WHAT POINT OF ORDER YES THE ITEM FOR DEBATE ON THE FLOOR IS FOR [5:01:44] David B. Chittim: whether to table this not whether to make the appointment yeah thank you do we want to go [5:01:50] Carl L. Sheline: To public comment for this, or you know what, we're gonna head to public comment for this item. Should we wait or should we not? Public comment has now opened. [5:02:00] Bryan Kaenrath: Hi. [5:02:05] Lisa Jones: My name is Lisa Jones. I live in Ward Two. I never saw this vacancy advertised. I actually emailed you last week, Carl, to ask when it would be opened up and what I could tell the people that were asking about it. So I'm not sure how many applications you received because I don't think the general public was aware that you were seeking applications for [5:02:28] Chrissy Noble: that seat on [5:02:34] Carl L. Sheline: the motion as the council president mentioned the motion on the table is tabling which we're not gonna well swear in the newly appointed COUNCIL TONIGHT, WE SHOULD TABLE THAT TO THE NEXT MEETING. IT'S KIND OF LATE TO HAVE A WORKSHOP. TRADITIONALLY THESE WORKSHOPS WERE DONE ON A SATURDAY, NOT ON A WEDNESDAY. IS THIS IN THE EVENING ON A WEDNESDAY, TOMORROW NIGHT, OR DURING THE DAY? SHAKING THE HEAD DOESN'T FIRMLY ANSWER THE QUESTION, BUT ANYWAY. TO THE POINT THAT LISA JONES SAID, WE'VE KNOWN THIS VACANCY HAD TO BE FILLED SINCE NOVEMBER. The communication director or anyone else within the city has not issued a press release in the last few months or a social media post we posted about the now filled Ward 5 councilor seat piecemeal appointments to the various boards that are now vacant and again where's the transparency you have to stop giving transparency and accountability lip service you use the words all the time and as the council president likes to say words have words matter yes words and definitions matter apparently no one in city hall has a comprehension of the definition and meaning of those words unfortunately thank you further public comment for this Martin [5:04:12] Martin Chartrand: Chartrand Ward Five I just want to point out that we're joining the school committee is a volunteer job that's often thankless and there's a working person who spent late a late night here who has to work in the morning who's willing to do that volunteer work and is now having to sit through a debate about whether she'll have to wait another week and not be able to participate in the first meeting because of procedural just a procedural question I think that's disrespectful and I also if the concern is what the newly elected councilwoman for Ward Five would weigh in on it she is sitting right out in the hallway and she could be invited to public comment to make that clear word [5:05:15] Jay Zimmerman: Five, I do think it would be useful for someone who's gonna serve on school committee to be able to participate in the workshop and engage and ask questions. I think that would help them do better at their job. [5:05:34] Matthew Egren: Matthew Agron board for one, we no longer have a clock running up there, just saying that to where. Let's go back to when you filled this position before. You advertised for it so everyone knew this position was open. There was no advertisement done. We advertised for a ward 5 council seat and it was done in less than a week. There was no social media post at all that said hey we're filling a school committee seat. While I understand this is your appointment mayor, there should have been public consideration so the public knew that they could apply for this. This is kind of like the last time, when you ended the run before the actual end of applications was done. There were still days left and you appointed Osmond to the seat. There were still people who were willing to apply. We don't have transparency in this process because nobody knew that you were looking to fill asleep until we got the council package on Thursday night. While I think it'd be wonderful if the person who is going to fill it could attend this retreat, how do you say that there wasn't somebody else out there who might have been a better option who would like to apply and never got the option to because you the city never posted it publicly? This is called failure of transparency and failure of accountability by you and the city. You guys like to use that word accountability and transparency but you don't seem to understand what it means. I have no doubt that this woman may be PERFECTLY QUALIFIED TO TAKE THIS POSITION BUT PUT IT OUT SO THAT PEOPLE CAN APPLY SO THE PUBLIC CAN SEE THAT THEY CAN APPLY FOR THIS. THERE WAS NEVER AN OPTION. IT'S A FAILURE OF TRANSPARENCY FAILURE [5:08:04] Carl L. Sheline: FURTHER PUBLIC COMMENT. PUBLIC COMMENT IS NOW CLOSED OR Back to the council chairman. Yes. Thank you [5:08:13] Scott A. Harriman: so I believe there was I Remember hearing at least one other ward 5 resident asking to apply for this position several weeks ago. So it was I mean, I'm not really on social media that much so I don't order mr. Mayor [5:08:27] Carl L. Sheline: Yeah One second counselor. There's someone who's lied several weeks ago. There's been a point of order [5:08:32] David B. Chittim: Councillor Chittim. Yes, if memory serves the issue on debate is whether or not we table a motion [5:08:38] Scott A. Harriman: I was speaking to that motion. So there was someone who applied several weeks ago, so certainly some people knew that this was open. I will also point out that not only is there a school committee retreat tomorrow evening, there's a joint city council and school committee meeting next Tuesday the 27th. This person will also not be able to participate in. There's also a school COMMITTEE MEETING ON MONDAY, FEBRUARY 2ND, THAT THIS PERSON WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN IF THIS IS TABLED UNTIL THE NEXT CITY COUNCIL MEETING. I WOULD ASK THE COUNCIL IF THEY BELIEVE THAT EITHER THE MAYOR'S NOMINATION WILL CHANGE OR THAT THE VOTE, THE OUTCOME OF THE VOTE WILL BE DIFFERENT WITH ONE OTHER PERSON VOTING HERE. THANK YOU. [5:09:34] Carl L. Sheline: I would like to point out she's ready to serve and has served on the school committee before. Unless there's somebody else who want to speak. I would like to vote on this counseling agent. Yes, I [5:09:46] Joshua L. Nagine: Would just like to reiterate the appointments. For school committee are completely the purview of the mayor and they're not necessarily open to an application process. The mayor decides who he wants to appoint and we either approve it or disapprove it, and so I'm not quite sure that the outcome is going to change if we table this at this moment [5:10:14] Carl L. Sheline: madam clark please call the vote. Can you repeat the motion and then call the vote? Sure we're calling on the motion to postpone this item to the february 3rd city council meeting. COUNSELOR FROM WORD TWO? YES. WORD THREE? NO. WORD FOUR? NO. WORD SIX? NO. WORD SEVEN? YES. WORD ONE? NO. MR. MAYOR? NO. MOTION FAILED BY VOTE OF TWO TO FIVE. PLEASE CALL THE VOTE. SO THE MOTION BEFORE YOU. SORRY, YES, THANK YOU. SORRY, THE MOTION BEFORE YOU IS THE ONE THAT IS PRINTED IN THE BOOK. I'll read it again to receive the mayor's nomination and to appoint Linea Hawkins to fill the vacant ward 5 position on the Lewiston school committee. Set appointment to be effective as of January 20th 2026 with the term ending January 4th 2027. council we yeah we're ready for I'M SORRY. COUNSELOR FROM WARD 2? [Lidstrom: WARD 3? YES.] WARD 4? YES. [5:11:26] Rin Sol: WARD 6? YES. [5:11:28] Chief Carly Conley: WARD 7? NO. [5:11:29] Carl L. Sheline: WARD 1? YES. MR. MAYOR? YES. MOTION PASSED BY VOTE OF 5-2. THANK YOU. I BELIEVE WE'RE BACK TO ITEM NUMBER ONE. MR. MAYOR. COUNCILOR CHIDDUM, YES. I'D LIKE TO APOLOGIZE TO [5:11:47] David B. Chittim: COUNCILOR HAREMAN. I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE that he was trying to make, so my motion to or my point of order, had I been a little more patient, I would not have made it. I'm sorry counselor Harriman, not a problem we're all [5:12:01] Carl L. Sheline: Human up here, thank you counselors, appreciate everyone getting along. Do we administrator Kane Wrath? Do we still have staff here for this? Yes, Mr. Mayor, we do. I think yes we do. Is that yes or no? I'm sorry. this was presented at the request of councillor Harriman so there really isn't a staff department that is connected to this agenda item it was presented requested by councillor Harriman okay thank you madam clerk item number one I remember when public hearing and first passage regarding an amendment to the offenses and miscellaneous provisions ordinance to expand the area of prohibited use of tobacco products in the downtown area. Requested action that the proposed amendment to the city code of ordinances chapter 50 offenses and miscellaneous provisions article 1 in general section 50-19 prohibiting tobacco use in designated public rights of way received first passage by a roll call vote and to continue a public hearing to the next regularly scheduled city council meeting i have a motion please i'll move from councillor chittum second by COUNCILOR NAGING DISCUSSION COUNCILOR HERMAN YES THANK YOU YES THIS WAS BROUGHT TO ME BY THE FOLKS [5:13:19] Scott A. Harriman: at Oak Park, which is at 10 Oak Street I believe. One of the, I met with them several weeks ago, they asked that I maybe come and speak to them, listen to some of their concerns, and one of the big things that they have an issue with is in the warmer weather when their windows are open, the building abuts the sidewalk on three sides, and so if anyone is outside smoking on the sidewalk, the smoke just goes straight in the windows. So I proposed that we expand the no smoking area that we have currently on Lisbon Street and then by the two hospitals to basically encompass Park Street from Maine to Oak, also Middle Street from Maine to Oak but only on the sides up against the building, and then on Oak Street from Park to Middle again the side up against the building. That would I think would give people enough distance from the windows that they wouldn't be affecting the residents inside, but they could still just simply cross the street if they wanted to smoke. So I brought, I'm bringing that forward and seeing what the council thinks. [5:14:36] Michael R. Roy: Councillor Roy, thank you Mr. Mayor. One question that I do have, I worked down there for many years and I used to talk to the residents there, and there are residents with disabilities that do smoke. So my concern is that you are pushing them further away from the building with their disabilities, and that's why I'm kind of having a hard time with this. I just want to be thoughtful for everybody and not just, you know, a few. That so that's just my concern with us. [5:15:10] Susan G. Longchamps: Councilor Longchamps, I have visited that property many times. I know residents that live there. I would be in favor of this, you know, having it a tobacco free area. I think it's important for the elderly people that are that are living there. In fact, the 90 year old woman that was staying with me a while back now resides there on the first floor and has that issue. She doesn't open her window because of the people that stand out there and smoke. So I am in favor of this. I do have one question, would they be allowed to go across the street like at the parking garage? Oh, yeah, typically they do that. Anyways, in their wheelchair to be honest. They go right across the street and the ones that live there and smoke, it's more so for people that don't reside there that are just kind of hanging out or passing by that are smoking that I've that I've witnessed or heard about. So I'd be in favor of this. Concern aging [5:16:19] Joshua L. Nagine: Eugene, so when this proposal was put forward, one of the thoughts on the interior Middle Street is Long Lee schools right there, right, and there's also like a couple of doctors offices there, so that kind of makes sense as well for Middle Street. But I would say that just like the Lisbon Street ordinance exists and exists because we're trying to prioritize businesses within the downtown, why wouldn't we just extend this to the end of Kennedy Park on Park Street? I mean, do we need to smoke cigarettes in front of City Hall? Do we need to smoke cigarettes in front of the library, post office? If we're talking about creating, you know, zones that are developable downtown zones [5:17:13] Carl L. Sheline: I'm coming back to you comes from a long time, so I come, sir. Martel, did you have [5:17:16] Bret Martel: Something, yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'm just of the opinion that smoking cigarettes is still legal, and forgive me a little latitude here, but we're going to police people smoking cigarettes because it might be upsetting to some people smell it, but we're going to hand out needles for people to consume illegal drugs, which is a very illegal process, but I'll end that right there. My concern is like this goes even further than that. This includes dip, chew, snuff, things that don't even produce smoke. We're policing a very legal action that's taxed pretty heavily, and now we're gonna allow people not to smoke outside. I understand inside buildings, but this is illegal activity outside, and I'm sorry that there are some people that are upset from smelling it. Are we going to outlaw dogs because one of our neighbors doesn't like hearing them bark when someone jogs by? Are we going to outlaw kids laughing and playing on playgrounds because there's a grumpy person across the street that doesn't like hearing it? This just feels like a foolish thing to be policing, and I really don't think that our police department, currently down six or eight officers, which was brought to our attention earlier, really has the time to be running around policing people smoking outside. [5:18:36] Carl L. Sheline: Yeah, so yeah, I'll just speak to this for a quick second. You know, so Lisbon Street became a whole lot better once you couldn't smoke on Lisbon Street. It took a while for people to figure out that they couldn't spoke there, and there were some finds at first. Now I think most everybody has the hang of it, and it's it's really improved Downtown a lot. I'm completely in favor of this, councillor Harriman. [5:19:08] Scott A. Harriman: Thank you, just a few things. So I am proposing just the side of the street that abuts the building. So it would be the northeast side of Park Street, the southwest side of Middle Street, and then the I guess it's the north or the west side of Oak Street. Also it was brought to my attention by the resident services coordinator at Oak Park that because that is a HUD subsidized building, there is a rule for residents of the building that they are they're not supposed to smoke within 25 feet of doors and windows. That's not something the police can enforce. That's that's more of an internal rule, but that obviously can't be enforced against people who don't live there and then I do recognize the concern about enforcement and I realize it's not a high priority issue for our police department but I think that people will you know just like you know if you walk down Lisbon Street and smoke a cigarette right now you're probably not going to get in trouble but if you're standing there in a group every day in the same spot eventually you'll you'll get the message that 's not allowed in that area And you'll move to the other side of the street or to another location. [5:20:31] Carl L. Sheline: Comments from council before we had the public comment. We're heading to public comment for this agenda item. [5:20:44] Christine Holden: Well just a little bit longer. Christine Holden, 183 Summer Street, and I'm the ward 1 representative to the Lewiston Senior Advisory Council to the City Council. And I would like to say that this ordinance, proposed ordinance, came about as a result of holding a public meeting of our council at Oak Park, and residents there were very eager to know what the council, the Advisory Council, might do and how we might convey ideas to the City Council. And that was as a result the administrator at Oak Park invited Councillor Harriman to come and speak, and it was not his proposal. This came out of the administrator and the residents of Oak Park. Clearly they are a significant number of people living in that building, and you've heard about the HUD aspect of it. I think it would be a very useful thing for people to hear that the city is listening to seniors, particularly these in a rather important location downtown and in an area directly adjoining our public bus station where many visitors will be coming and getting an impression of the city. I am, I am a rabid anti-smoker myself, as many of you know. I am NOT speaking to the merits of smoking or not smoking, but I am speaking to the merits of supporting senior residents of this community who are asking the council to DO SOMETHING FOR THEM. THANK YOU. FURTHER PUBLIC COMMENT. MATTHEW [5:22:28] Matthew Egren: AGRON, WARD FOUR. THIS IS A GREAT THING FOR THOSE WHO ARE HAVE PROBLEMS BREATHING. UNFORTUNATELY, AS COUNSELOR MARTELL SAID, IT'S STILL A LEGAL THING. MATTER OF FACT, I'M PRETTY SURE SUSAN SELLS CIGARETTES IN HER STORE. IF YOU'RE GOING TO pass this for the city, in the city, Lewiston, pass it citywide. Let's make a declaration we're not going to allow smoking outdoors in the city of Lewiston. [Abdul Qadir Adan: But] I guarantee you guys won't do that because it will cost the city and businesses a lot of money this would be the same thing as if we pass an ordinance today that says no electronic bikes can be used within the city because their batteries are dangerous no lithium batteries are allowed in lewiston it's a legal product every computer that you guys have up there has a lithium battery in it 's it's one of those things they're a safety issue but how do you take the risk how do you go do you go too far, do you go not far enough? I get it. I've had relatives who had COPD who can't breathe out an oxygen machine and hook to an oxygen tank, and it's hard to watch them, but state of Maine and the federal government says this is a legal product. [Nicola May: AND] THIS ORDINANCE DOESN'T JUST COVER SMOKING. IT COVERS ANYTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH TOBACCO. IT MIGHT BE EVEN A TAD OVERREACH ON THAT. I DON'T SUPPORT SMOKING. I HAVEN'T SMOKED 30-PLUS YEARS, BUT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SMOKE, AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO PASS IT, PASS IT CITYWIDE OR DON'T JUST CUT AND PACE LITTLE AREAS where we can and can't smoke. Thank you. A [5:24:54] Carl L. Sheline: further public comment, Martin. [5:25:01] Martin Chartrand: Charter and board 5. I'm just listening. It sounds like a fair proposal. It's balanced. It's for a targeted area. I would just ask that the city and instruct the police to take more of an educational approach than a punitive approach because I would hate to see folks that are unhoused or being given big fines just because they didn't smoked on the wrong side of the street. Thank you. [5:25:28] Carl L. Sheline: Again, Matt Rory Ward six. As councillor Harriman said, due to HUD regulations that you can't smoke within a certain footage, actually I think it's more than 25 feet, to be fair, based on my previous backgrounds and property management, and again the property management company through is basically asking the city to do what they should be doing anyway. If people are trespassing and beyond the sidewalk onto their property, they have internal remedies to take care of this themselves. They don't don't need the city of WOUSTON OR ANY OTHER LOCAL GOVERNMENT ENTITY TO DO ENFORCEMENT FOR THEM. WHAT THEY CAN DO FOR THEMSELVES. THANK YOU. FURTHER PUBLIC COMMENT. PUBLIC COMMENTS NOW CLOSED. COUNCILOR NAJING. [5:26:28] Joshua L. Nagine: So just real quick, first of all, smoking is actually damaging to people who are exposed to second hand smoke. It's fact. Two, the Oak Street building is actually directly against the sidewalk. The sidewalk is public access. So when we have conversations about stakeholders in places that are asking for activities not to happen around them, there's really no need to say, you know, at the end of the day, yeah, you could have a disco party in front of my house, right? But I'm not going to like it, and I might come before city council to be like, hey, can we put a noise ordinance in on my block? So like, you know, I guess the question here is, do we honor the wishes of the people who are the stakeholders in the actual structure of the neighborhood, or do we say no? And I think it's pretty easy to just say yes. [5:27:29] Carl L. Sheline: Councilor Herman, did you hear your hand up? Yeah, I was just going to clarify that we're talking about public property. [5:27:35] Scott A. Harriman: Oak Park does not have any square footage except for their atrium in the middle. So we're talking about public property on which the city can enforce ordinances. The rule from HUD is not enforceable against the general public, only against residents of the building. [5:27:58] Carl L. Sheline: Councilors, I would like to call this a vote, unless there's further comments. Madam Clare, please call the vote. Council for Board 2? Yes. Board 3? Yes. Board 4? [5:28:11] Michael R. Roy: Yes. Board 6? Yes. Word seven? No. Word one? [5:28:17] Carl L. Sheline: Yes. Mr. Mayor? Yes. Motion passed by a vote of six to one. If you'll give me one second, Madam Clerk. Penthia, I recognize you. Do we have Anne Percel here? Do we have Lindsay Henry here? Or Phyllis Rand? OK. Councilors, without strong objection, if we can move to item eight, I just remind the fact that Pentea is here without seeing strong objection, Madam Clerk, item number eight. item number eight appointments to various city boards and committees there are four items for requested action the first item is to receive the mayor's nomination and to appoint penthea burns to a three-year term to as a full member on the planning board so moved councillor merriman Second by Councilor Chiddom. Discussion. I would like to point out that Panthia currently serves an associate member, and so we're we're promoting her. Public comment for this agenda item. MR MAYOR I'LL POINT OUT THAT ON THE AGENDA ITEM CONCERNING APPOINTMENTS WELL TO FILL THE COUNCIL SEAT WE HAD ALL APPLICATE I PRESUME those were all five applications and given the short time frame probably was that should be the standard course for all appointments that mayor wants that has the power to make and counsel to consent to but yet we only get the mayor's nomination there was probably several applications for the vacant POINTING BORROW SEATS THAT HAVE BEEN ADVERTISED SINCE DECEMBER THANK YOU FURTHER PUBLIC COMMENT [5:30:17] Matthew Egren: MATTHEW AKERN BOARD FOR THIS IS JUST A SIMPLE ONE YOU GUYS KEEP MOVING YOU HAVE YOUR AGENDA DESIGNED IN A PARTICULAR ORDER FOR A PARTICULAR REASON IT'S DESIGNED THE WAY THE COUNCIL INSTRUCTED THE CITY TO assemble the agenda based on your own rules yet very regularly we jump things around because we want to make it for those people who might be here now yeah it's now almost midnight I get this one but we could have gone through all the rest of one through eight and then hit nine tonight we didn't need to jump right to nine unfortunately this affects everyone who comes wants to come and attend meetings i knew i was working tonight i was like not a problem i have plenty of time to get there and i have to get out a little early and get in here before you guys get out of the executive session and number nine is far down the agenda and I knew that this was going to be a big one you guys knew it was going to be a big one it was put as number nine for a reason please stop moving agenda items because you voted for how these agenda items are assembled it is not just we're randomly throwing them down you guys set a pattern for how you want them if you want to move things up more importantly do a formal vote [5:32:06] Carl L. Sheline: EVERY TIME THANK YOU FURTHER PUBLIC COMMENT BACK TO THE COUNCIL ARE WE READY TO CALL FOR A VOTE COUNCILORS MADAM CLARKE PLEASE CALL THE VOTE COUNCIL FROM WORD TWO YES WORD THREE YES WORD FOUR YES WORD SIX YES WORD SEVEN YES WORD ONE YES MR. MAYOR YES MOTION PASSED BY VOTE OF 7-0 THE NEXT ITEM FOR item eight number two to appoint ann purcell to a five-year term as a tenant representative on the lewiston housing authority board of directors i have a motion please so counselor should involve my counselor in aging discussion public comment mr mayor move back to back to us [5:32:52] David B. Chittim: First counselor, yes. I was looking, I was looking at the council rules and public comment is allowed on agenda items. There are four specific orders under this agenda item. I would suggest that public comment be allowed per item and not per [5:33:09] Carl L. Sheline: action. I understand it's been press practice met my clerk. Has it been practiced past practice to go per item? It has been past practice to go BASICALLY PER ITEM OR PER MOTION OR MOTION OR MOTION. THANK YOU, I UNDERSTAND. COUNCILOR CHIDDOM, I WOULD LIKE TO PROCEED AS WE'VE AS WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST. OK, PUBLIC COMMENT FOR THIS AGENDA ITEM. BACK TO THE COUNCIL. MADAM CLERK, please call the vote. Councilor, for Ward 2? Yes. Ward 3? Yes. Ward 4? Yes. Ward 6? Yes. Ward 7? Yes. Ward 1? Yes. Mr. Mayor? Yes. Motion passed by Voters 7 to 0. Item number 3, to receive the nomination from the Public Health Committee and to appoint Lindsey Henry to a three-year term as a full member serving in the position of Area Resident Business Representative. So moved. We have a motion, please. Councilor Herman? Second. Second by Councilor Nagy. Yes. Discussion? Public comment? [5:34:15] David B. Chittim: back to the council. Counselor, yes, thank you. Were all applicants included in the packet, Mr. Mayor? [5:34:22] Carl L. Sheline: all applicants for what? For all of these positions? No, I don't believe so. I would like [5:34:31] David B. Chittim: to make a request that henceforth when a mayoral appointment or any appointment for that matter is presented to the council that we have all of the applicants for that position included in the packet. [5:34:43] Carl L. Sheline: IT UH YEAH WE WILL LET'S TAKE THIS UP UNDER NEW BUSINESS. UH COUNCILOR NAGING, I WOULD JUST [5:34:51] Joshua L. Nagine: LIKE TO REMIND UH EVERYONE MR MAYOR THAT THE NOMINATIONS FROM THE PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE ACTUALLY STEM FROM THE PUBLIC HEALTH COMMITTEE SO THEY'RE NOT FORWARDING APPLICATIONS TO ANYONE THEY'RE THEY'RE MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS FOR US TO APPOINT [5:35:34] Matthew Egren: because they're looking for them from the city. We should see them all because otherwise it becomes a old boys network or a private club. Also, when are we going to get the rest of the appointments to the boards and committees that are open? You said you'd have them tonight, mayor. Further public [5:35:59] Carl L. Sheline: public comment. Back to the council. Madam clerk, please call the vote. That's the firm where to yes, word three yes, word for yes,, and I didn't for to receive the mayor's nomination to appoint Phyllis ran to a three-year term as a full member of the Lake Auburn watershed protection Commission, have a motion, please. So move Councillor Chittim. Second saying back. COUNCILOR NAJING DISCUSSION. PUBLIC COMMENT. BACK TO THE COUNCIL. [5:36:32] Susan G. Longchamps: COUNCILOR LONGCHAMPS. I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU, MAYOR, FOR CONSIDERING AND [5:36:37] Carl L. Sheline: NOMINATING HER. YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY WELCOME. THANK YOU. OK. MADAM CLERK, PLEASE CALL THE VOTE. COUNCIL FROM WORD TWO? YES. WORD THREE? YES. WORD FOUR? YES. WORD SIX? YES. WORD SEVEN? YES. WORD ONE? YES. MR. MAYOR? YES. pass okay thank you everyone we're now back to item number two do we have staff here for item number two item number two public hearing and first passage for an amendment to the zoning and land use code article two definitions for changes to the definition of accessory dwelling unit and daycares and to add a definition for tree caliber requested action that the proposed amendments to APPENDIX A OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES ZONING AND LAND USE CODE ARTICLE 2 DEFINITIONS REGARDING ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT DAYCARES AND TREE CALIPER RECEIVE FIRST PASSAGE BY ROLL CALL VOTE AND TO CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING TO THE NEXT REGULAR SCHEDULED CITY COUNCIL MEETING I HAVE A MOTION PLEASE SO MOVED I'M SECOND BY COUNCILOR NAGINE DIRECTOR CONNER THANKS FOR STICKING WITH US [5:37:54] Planning Board Member: ABSOLUTELY PLEASE KICK US OFF HERE THANK YOU MR MAYOR AND COUNCILORS UM ON OCTOBER 27TH OF 2025 the planning board initiated all of these changes a lot of these changes as if you read them in your packet already are stemming from legislative sorry legislative bills that have been passed in the legislature and therefore we have to amend our ordinances to fall in line with them on december 22nd 2025 the planning board had a public hearing and made their recommendations to the council for these changes the planning staff deputy director norton and her planning staff have worked tirelessly trying to navigate all of the legislation and as you can imagine it's not easy reading and they have taken it and adapted it adapted our ordinances to the new legislation so the original adu definition was changed a little bit and you'll see it again later on but we have five different land use zoning amendment ordinances that have been amended all of them have been legislative changes except for one Which was done with the planning staff upstairs trying to bring a few things into a little tighter with the parking and a few other things there. So there's five different agenda items. Happy to answer any questions if I can on them. You'll have to forgive me, I was trying TO BE A GOOD BOSS AND LET DEPUTY DIRECTOR NORTON GO HOME A FEW HOURS AGO, SO I'LL DO THE BEST I CAN. [5:39:28] Carl L. Sheline: UH THANK YOU SO MUCH. UH COUNCILOR CHIDDOM. YES DIRECTOR CONNER, I BELIEVE YOU ARE A GOOD BOSS. [5:39:35] David B. Chittim: THANK YOU FOR THAT. I HAVE A TONGUE-IN-CHEEK QUESTION. THE CALIPER OF A TREE IS DETERMINED BY MEASURING THE TRUNK AT FOUR FEET SIX INCHES ABOVE GROUND LEVEL. WHERE ON THE GROUND IS THAT MEASUREMENT MADE FROM? I DON'T, I DON'T NEED AN ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION. THIS IS JUST THE [5:39:52] Planning Board Member: HEIGHT OF RIDICULOUSNESS. THANK YOU. IF I MAY, WE ARE LUCKY ON THE PLANNING BOARD TO HAVE A FORESTRY PROFESSIONAL, UM, AND SHE HELPED IMMENSELY WITH THAT PART OF IT, AND SO, UM, AND SHE IS ALSO OUR RESIDENT, UM, COUNCILOR CHIDDOM, SO SHE DOES A LOT OF OUR UH GRAMMATICAL CHECKS AND FUNCTUATION CHECKS FOR US AS WELL. FURTHER [5:40:16] Carl L. Sheline: UH IF THE AUDIENCE COULD PLEASE BE quiet, thank you. Further questions before we go to public comment for this counselor naging. [5:40:24] Joshua L. Nagine: just to get some clarification about the minimum height in ncb for 20 feet based on staff recommendations. the question that i have concerning that is that in for instance i'm an ncb and there's certain housing that exists as well as accessory dwelling units that used to exist that maybe will get rebuilt at some point in time that are under that height restriction. so the character of the neighborhood actually is defined by housing that is smaller than a two-floor house as well, and so it's just a question around, you know, like that four unit that's on the corner of spring and whipple for instance that has the shotgun hallway that houses four people or four different, you know, units, right, and that's maybe 15 feet tall. the granny flat or the accessory dwelling unit that's behind the yellow building at i believe it's 98 spring street, same thing, it's a, it's a one story with a peaked roof, and so the question is are we applying the standard overall or would there be some type of situation in which we could request some type of exemption for it. we try to be [5:41:41] Planning Board Member: As flexible as possible, we're trying to be as accommodating as possible without, again, you know, trying to keep the definition of the neighborhood or the structure of the neighborhood intact, the character of the neighborhood. So we're open to, you know, as much flexibility as possible. So there would be like possibly [5:41:57] Joshua L. Nagine: an appeals process or something of that. Perfect. Yeah, just because overall we need to see housing, you know, and so, okay, thank you. [5:42:05] Carl L. Sheline: Public comment for this agenda item. Back to the council. Madam Clerk, please call the vote. Council from Ward 2. Excuse me, Council from Ward 2. Yes. Ward 3. Yes. Ward 4. Yes. Ward 6. Yes. Ward 7. Yes. Ward 1. Yes. Mr. Mayor. Yes. Motion passed by a vote of 7-0. Item number 3. Item number 3, public hearing and first passage for an amendment to the Zoning and Land Use code article 5 administration and enforcement for changes to allow more than one principal structure on residential lots. Requested action that the proposed amendments to appendix a of the code of ordinances zoning and land use code article 5 administration and enforcement regarding the allowance of multiple principal structures on residential lots received first passage by a roll call vote and to continue the public hearing to the next regular schedule city council meeting. So motion, please, Councillor Schindler, second by Councillor Harriman, Director Connor. [5:42:55] Planning Board Member: Again, same thing, it's pretty self-explanatory what the changes were. She went through or they went through and made the strikeouts and additions as needed. Happy to answer any questions that may come up. [5:43:10] Carl L. Sheline: Public comment for this agenda item. Back to the council. Madam Clerk, please call the vote. Yes. Yes. I'm number four. I didn't report public hearing and first passage for an amendment to the zoning and land use code article 9 Appeals and variances for a check for a change to set back variances for dwelling units. Requested action that the proposed amendments to appendix a of the code of ordinances zoning and land use code article 9 Appeals and variances for a change to set back variances for dwelling units. Received first passage by a roll call vote and to continue the public hearing to the next regular scheduled City Council meeting. So motion, Councilor Chittim, second signed by Councillor Harriman, Dr. [5:43:59] Planning Board Member: Connor, same thing, like this one is keep us in line with a past legislation out of Augusta. Happy to answer any questions that may come up. Comment for this agenda [5:44:13] Carl L. Sheline: back to the council. Madam Clerk, please call vote. Councilor from Ward 2? Yes. Ward 3? Yes. Ward 4? Yes. Ward 6? Yes. Ward 7? Yes. Ward 1? Yes. Mr. Mayor? Yes. Motion passes 7-0. Item number 5. Item number 5. Public hearing and first passage for an amendment to the zoning and land use code article 11 district regulations for changes to the space and bulk table and land use table regarding mobile homes daycares and used car dealers and new dimensional requirements requested action of the proposed amendments to appendix a of the Code of Ordinances zoning and land use code article 11 district regulations regarding mobile homes daycares and used car dealers and new dimensional requirements received first passage by a roll call vote and to continue the public hearing to the next regularly scheduled City Council meeting I have a motion so move I can search it I'm second by [5:45:09] Planning Board Member: COUNCIL HERMAN TORCH CONNOR SO THIS THE FIRST SIX UH LETTERS A THROUGH F IN THE MEMO FROM DEPUTY DIRECTOR NORTON OUR LEGISLATIVE UPDATES UH LETTER G IS INTERNAL TO OUR TO OUR DEPARTMENT WE WANTED TO MAKE IT EASIER SO WE ALPHABETIZE THE TABLES TO IMPROVE EASE OF USE [5:45:30] Carl L. Sheline: DISCUSSION PUBLIC COMMENT BACK TO THE COUNCIL UH COUNCILOR NAJING YES AGAIN MY CONCERN IS THE 20 FOOT [5:45:40] Joshua L. Nagine: high especially considering that neighborhood conservation a does not have it and neither does the neighborhood business downtown resident downtown residential so it's just one of those things that i bring up again for consistency and also in order to get you know some of the modular housing models that are being built for instance right now tend to be you know somewhere around 12 to 14 feet high even with the additional baffle that you have to put in for the insulation so i just want to make sure that we're not saying no to housing that somebody can [5:46:14] Carl L. Sheline: just stick into a lot that we need that's all perfect councillor chittum thank you mr mayor [5:46:19] David B. Chittim: i've seen zoning ordinances and in fact lewiston may have one that establishes setbacks sideline and front setbacks specifically as an average of surrounding setbacks [5:46:33] Planning Board Member: i'm not 100 sure i [5:46:36] David B. Chittim: i believe so well my point is to counselor nageen's concern that instead of establishing a minimum height of 20 feet would it be possible to say we're establishing a height that's consistent with parcels within two lots on either side of the parcel under consideration sort of [5:46:51] Planning Board Member: Like how we determine NCB requirements, definitely something we can look at. As the memo says, we're getting ready to have a second round of legislative documents that we're going to be updating, so we can take this back to the planners and take these back to them to see if it's something that can be easily changed to meet that qual, meet that requirement. [5:47:11] David B. Chittim: Thank you. so I'm not sure what that does for tonight's vote, which includes the 20 foot minimum height for NCB,. [5:47:23] Joshua L. Nagine: Councilor Najing, yes. Mr. Mayor, to kind of answer that question, I think ultimately this was passed by the planning board on a six to one vote, so I'm comfortable with moving forward with it, and if I so decide to appeal to the planning board, I'll show up with some pictures and graphs and circles and arrows. [5:47:46] Carl L. Sheline: Counselors, at this hour I can tell you that I've never trusted our planning board more, so anything further, counselors, Dr. [5:47:57] Planning Board Member: Are you good? Yeah, I've got the notes and I will, I will get back with the council [5:48:01] Carl L. Sheline: on those items. Excellent. Madam Clerk, please call the vote. Yes. Yes. Yes. Item number six. Number six, public hearing in first passage for an amendment to the zoning and land use code article 12 performance standards for changes to the standards regarding the placement of fences in front setbacks, ADUs, parking requirements, and the terminology for daycare facilities. Requested action that the proposed amendments to Appendix A of the Code of Ordinances, Zoning and Land Use Code, Article 12, performance standards regarding the standards regarding the placement of fences in front setbacks, ADUs, parking requirements, and the terminology for daycare facilities received first passage by a roll call vote and to continue the public hearing to the next regularly scheduled City Council meeting. I have a motion. Please, so move. Comes our chair. The second thing by [5:48:59] Planning Board Member: Councillor Herman, Dr. Connor, letter A, the first one there, the fences in the right-of-way, that was an internal one with the situation that came up. Somebody wanted to put a fence in the in this front setback, but it just happened to be right up against the building, which is right up against the road, which would be torn up by plows every single time it went by, so we wanted to get the code officer out there to take a look at it and get approval from the code officer if they were going to put fences in that area. The rest Of the items, excluding the parking, were legislative updates that needed to be changed in our ordinances. We are trying to be more conservative with our parking and making it easier, not having so much stringency on parking for development. So we tweaked those a little bit. Panthea's here, and she did yeoman's work on the planning board. The planning board did a lot of good work, you know, going through all of these. So we greatly appreciate their work. [5:49:58] Carl L. Sheline: Discussion from the council, public comment, back to the [5:50:04] Scott A. Harriman: council chairman. Yes, I just wanted to thank planning and code staff and the planning board for all of these. There's a lot of work that went into this, and thank you all to the [5:50:16] Carl L. Sheline: planning board i'm sorry that it took several agenda items for us to finally recognize you but thank you very much counselor naging and just to be clear so on the front setback [5:50:26] Joshua L. Nagine: the walls and fences to be placed within the front setback require approval of the planning board to ensure street safety. That's indicating that if the fence is over three and a half feet that planning code has to sign off on it, correct? The, you said, I think you said planning board, it's the code officer. Sorry. Yes. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. I got it now. Okay. Thanks. [5:50:50] Carl L. Sheline: madam clerk please call the vote council from word two yes word three yes word four yeah yes [5:50:59] David B. Chittim: i'm sorry councillor roy you caught me unawares yes seven yes board one yes mr mayor yeah yes [5:51:08] Carl L. Sheline: Yes. Item number seven. Item number seven. Order authorizing funds from the 2023 LCIP library HVAC upgrades bond account to a new LCIP bond account for the library carpet replacement project. Requested action to approve the order authorizing the transfer of funds from the 2023 LCIP library HVAC upgrades bond account to a new LC IP bond account for the library carpet replacement project. I'm, have a motion, please. So move, provided that the [5:51:42] David B. Chittim: lording of the order includes the year 2023. [5:51:47] Carl L. Sheline: second I have a second by councillor Neijing thank you both [Bret Martel: Good evening.] Yeah, almost. After you. [5:52:03] City Administrator / Staff: GO. SO THE LOUISTON LIBRARY EXPERIENCED HIGH HUMIDITY WHICH DAMAGED THE CARPET. WE'VE BEEN WORKING TO REPLACE THAT. WE'VE ALREADY BEEN TO YOU IN A PRIOR COUNCIL MEETING AND REAPPROPRIATED $40,000 FROM THIS ACCOUNT. LEFT OVER FROM AN HVAC PROJECT. BIDS CAME IN. IT WAS BASED ON A CONTRACTUAL ESTIMATE THAT WE GOT. THE INITIAL MONEY. THOSE HAVE GONE OVER AND WE'RE HERE TO ASK FOR THE BALANCE OF THE FUNDS TO REPLACE THE CARPETING. IT'S MOSTLY AN AESTHETICS BUT MOSTLY A SAFETY ISSUE. [5:52:36] Carl L. Sheline: THANK YOU. COUNCILOR SHINNEMAN, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING? [5:52:40] David B. Chittim: YES. DO WE KNOW WHAT THE STATUS OF THE HVAC UPGRADES BOND ACCOUNT IS NOW IF THIS MONEY IS TRANSFERRED? [5:52:47] City Administrator / Staff: NO ADDITIONAL USE IS NEEDED FOR IT. THE PROJECT HAS BEEN COMPLETED UNDER A DIFFERENT CONTRACT. INITIALLY, IT WAS 100,000. THERE'S CURRENTLY 60,000 IN THAT ACCOUNT. [5:53:01] David B. Chittim: SO THIS IS SITTING HERE IN A BUCKET THAT HAS A LABEL ON IT. WE CAN'T USE IT FOR ANYTHING ELSE UNTIL WE MOVE IT. [5:53:06] City Administrator / Staff: THAT'S WHY I'M HERE ASKING TO USE IT FOR THIS. [5:53:08] David B. Chittim: YOU'RE ASKING TO MOVE ABOUT A QUARTER OF WHAT'S LEFT IN THE [5:53:10] City Administrator / Staff: BUCKET. 17,000. SOME CHANGE TO BE ABLE TO COMPLETE THE AWARD. OKAY. THANK YOU. YEP. PUBLIC COMMENT? [5:53:19] Bret Martel: Back to the council. Yes, Counselor Martel, when's the last time the carpet was replaced, when it was installed? [5:53:26] City Administrator / Staff: I think it was the early 2000s when we renovated and built this part of the library. [5:53:35] Carl L. Sheline: Yep. Well, they can't, the carpet is no longer usable because of the water damage. Correct, sections of carpet have been removed. [5:53:42] City Administrator / Staff: So there's no tripping hazard. [5:53:44] Carl L. Sheline: Right. There's not even carpet. They're right, not any carpet there. It's plywood floor with, Okay. Now clerk, please call the vote. Yes,, yes. Thank you, item, Mr. Mayor, much to work for Garnier. Yes, concert should have, may ask the director a quick question. [5:54:09] David B. Chittim: Is there insurance issue involved here? That was part of our delay. We submitted a claim. [5:54:14] City Administrator / Staff: After several iterations, the claim was denied, so we came back to try to get it [5:54:20] David B. Chittim: Repaired another way. Boo, insurance companies, it happens. Yay, public works, thank you for looking into that. Thank you. Thank you, director Kanye. [5:54:29] Carl L. Sheline: I'm clerk, I think we're up to item number 11 if I'm not mistaken. Yes, item 11 order approving recommendations from the city clerk register our voters on actions necessary to conduct the special state candidate election to be held on TUESDAY FEBRUARY 24th 2026 REQUESTED ACTION TO APPROVE THE ORDER APPROVING RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE CITY CLERK REGISTRAR VOTERS ON ACTIONS NECESSARY TO CONDUCT THE SPECIAL STATE CANDIDATE ELECTION TO BE HELD ON TUESDAY FEBRUARY 24th 2026. UM I HAVE A MOTION PLEASE SO MOVED UH COUNCILOR CHIDDOM, SECOND BY COUNCILOR LONGCHAMP'S. DISCUSSION, PUBLIC COMMENT, BACK TO THE COUNCIL. Clerk, please call, or wait, counselor Herman, did you have something? Yeah, I mean, it's pretty [5:55:13] Scott A. Harriman: Straightforward when you read the page, but I didn't know if the city clerk wanted to summarize things. It seems like it's just sort of the standard things that we do at elections. Sure, it [5:55:23] Carl L. Sheline: Is the standard items. It is saying that the election will be held on the 24th, that voter registration will be conducted only in person from February 4th to February 23rd. That's in line with state law, and that we will be processing the absentee ballots at the polling places at 8 a.m., 2 p.m., 6 p.m., and any and all remaining at 8 p.m., against standard practice. Madam Clerk, please call the vote. Counselor, for Word 2? Yes. Word 3? Yes. Word 4? Yes. Word 6? We are now up to the second public comment period for those that did not speak during the first public comment period. Mr. Agrin, are you sure you did not speak at the first public [5:56:14] Matthew Egren: comment period? Yeah, I remember not speaking. Many hours ago. Matthew Agrin, Ward Four. City Councilors, it's been brought up a number of times by many different people that our charter is available for an issue. But until it's fixed, it's the rules that the city operates under. You all need to remember that your most emotional reactions are not what matters here. What matters is the law we operate under, for otherwise we have nothing but anarchy. On Wednesday the 8th, we had our council president make a motion to violate the charter and say if he knew what swearing to uphold it meant he would not have, even after our city attorney told all of you that the only thing that you could do was appoint someone to fill the vacant Ward 5 council seat. Counselor, Council President Chittum, as someone who I agree that words have meaning and matter, I please, I ask of you resign your presidency and allow someone who's willing to fulfill the charter's rules to become president of this body then to the other issue i have seen lately from attending these council meetings this council is elected as a non-partisan group there are no party affiliations assigned to any of you yet on monday the 5th when the council got to the point where they shall confirm per the charter the republican nomination to the open republican seat on the election board you all thought about doing it shall means you will do it 's a party seat on a three-person board with a Democratic rep, a Republican rep, and a city appointed one. I think there should be a few more reps, but that's not how it's designed. Even the mayor himself admitted that had this been the Democratic seat, most of the people up there would have been celebrating and cheering them on, not fighting it. You took longer to make that appointment than you did to confirm Councillor Harriman, the two different councils censured to be your school committee rep. Then on the 8th, and that special meeting called in a hurry to find out the steps, we had Councilor Nagine openly disparaging all the people who showed up at that meeting as Republicans. Let's be honest, I made it two hours into a meeting that should never have lasted that long. I'm not a Republican. And you attacked the only media who showed up, the main wire. I have never heard any of you call out all the Democrats who showed up to many of these meetings or the media circus that's been here for lots of them, including the fifth decision to vote on reviewing the qualifications to ward fives that's time thank you [5:59:25] Carl L. Sheline: further public comment for those that didn't speak earlier it's getting late okay public comment is now closed we're now up to reports and updates from counselors should there be any [5:59:37] Scott A. Harriman: councilman thank you the school committee met a week ago yesterday and just a few updates there were there was lots of public comment mostly from students and I just wanted to again really appreciate them for the time and the thought they put into their comments and especially for the civility that they showed during the public comment period also on the agenda we reviewed the district hiring process we reviewed the financial audit and then upcoming tomorrow we have our RETREAT WHERE WE'LL BE SETTING GOALS AND HAVING SORT OF AN ORIENTATION FOR THE NEW SCHOOL COMMITTEE THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT ON THAT [6:00:21] Michael R. Roy: CHANCELLOR ROY THANK YOU THE YOUTH COUNCIL MET LAST TUESDAY AND I GOT TO TELL YOU I WAS VERY IMPRESSED THEY PUT TOGETHER A SURVEY THAT WILL BE COMING OUT SOON A YOUTH SURVEY THAT IS DEFINITELY IT'S GOING TO BE AMAZING SO I'm looking forward to attending more meetings with them and just hearing everything that they're doing they're really awesome so [6:00:49] Carl L. Sheline: we're now up to [6:00:50] Michael R. Roy: new business should there be any back to you council Roy thank you so it's been brought to my attention many times both in social media and people calling me the speed on Rideout Avenue I brought this to the police CHIEF'S ATTENTION BEFORE POLICE CHIEF CONNOLLY GOT IN I WAS TALKING WITH CHIEF SAINT PIERRE BEFORE THIS WE TRIED TO GET SOMETHING GOING I'VE TALKED TO DIRECTOR GANGA ABOUT THIS THE SPEEDS ARE INSANE WE REALLY IF THERE'S A WAY THAT WE CAN LOOK INTO THIS BECAUSE THE RESIDENTS ARE REALLY PUSHING FOR SOME REFORM DOWN THERE, YOU KNOW, BUT YEAH, SO I WANTED TO BRING THAT TO EVERYBODY'S attention. One other thing too, what do we need to do to look into the charter? That's something that I really, I've been hearing a lot. I want to know what we can do about getting a committee to look into this and see if there's some changes that need to be made. [6:01:55] Carl L. Sheline: Counselor Nageen, so I apologize Mr. Mayor, but I actually want to respond back if that's all right to Council Roy about right out, both about right out and the charter. Yeah, okay, so right now [6:02:13] Joshua L. Nagine: I'm working on Ware Street to possibly get a raised table in, and I think that overall solution like a raised table could possibly slower traffic down before there's, you know, enforcement action, and raised tables, an example would be on, I believe it's Elm Street in Auburn, when the entire platform area is raised up. I think that we would do well to sit down with maybe some members of the Complete Streets Committee to kind of see what a streetscape looks like and figure out what those costs are, maybe we can start to request those things in certain places where we know they're needed. That's one piece, and then the second piece with the Charter, I think really what it comes down to is either we vote to have a referendum for a charter review commission, right, or the second possibility is that the holes in the charter that we know that need to get fixed, we write ordinance for that and then put it out to referendum, one or the other, and that's something that I think Council President Chittum has done some conversation around, some thought around, so we could, I know it's crazy, but maybe we could not talk about it at midnight, right, and do it like on a Thursday or a FRIDAY AND KIND OF SIT DOWN TOGETHER TO TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THOSE PIECES THAT WE COULD WORK OUT [6:03:37] Carl L. Sheline: BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S A TOP PRIORITY FOR MYSELF AS WELL, UH, YES, UH, AND TO YOUR POINT, UM, COUNCILOR NAJEAN, ADMINISTRATOR KANE RATH, I THINK THERE'S MANY DIFFERENT WAYS TO ATTACK THE CHARTER ISSUE, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK MAYBE A WORKSHOP WOULD BE IN ORDER WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY ABOUT what can be changed when and how and committee and not committee and so on and so forth. I think a workshop could be, it could be in order. [6:04:06] Bryan Kaenrath: Yep, heard, and I think Councilor Chittim also has some language drafted to specifically address some of the issues we've been recently grappling with that are charter issues, Griffin not mistaken, yes. [6:04:17] David B. Chittim: Councillor Chittim, thank you. Councillor Roy, two things. One is one of the residents of right out has suggested two stop signs on is it Fair Lawn. My understanding is that's a request that has to come from the police chief to the council because the council takes action to correct to erect stop signs. She is aware of that, and thank you for bringing that up. As to the Charter, I wanted to let, I think I've let all of you know anyway, at the February meeting I will be presenting a resolve that addresses the issue with special elections versus appointments. I spoke with the clerk this morning. Right now the tripping point is a year, and I'm going to be proposing a resolve that we will all debate on the first meeting in February that changes the tipping point from one year to 18 months so that if there are, well, we'll talk about that later, but there is language in the works which will be presented for council discussion. We can, by the way, piecemeal individual segments of the Charter as we go along over the course of the summer. All of these have to go to referendum in November, but we can do that. The last Charter review committee, and we don't need a committee to do it, gave the council ten resolves all at once, and frankly the council was overwhelmed, did not do its homework, and that's why we were here tonight not having a special election. Thank you. Councillor Herman, yes, I so I have three [6:05:56] Scott A. Harriman: items. I also had charter review on my list. I would, I welcome Councillor Chittim's updates to some of the issues that we know that we know our problems right now, but I would also advocate for an actual Charter review Commission to be elected and actually do a full review of the charter after we, after we have these small things updated. My second item is I believe Auburn recently, I'm not sure if they passed or if they're still in the works on a mobile home lot rent moratorium, and I would be interested in bringing that up as well so we can work on some sort of a rent stabilization ordinance for mobile homes at least. And then my third item is I realized that we still haven't had a performance review or any sort of review for our new employee or city administrator. It's coming up on about nine months now and we haven't had any sort of review, and I'd like to get that on an agenda sometime soon. Most employees are evaluated at three, six, nine, and twelve months, and we still haven't had any at all. Mr [6:07:11] Bryan Kaenrath: Mayor, just to respond to that, it is by contract, it's stipulated in the contract, the review periods, but I'm always welcome to any sort of feedback. Okay, thank you. [6:07:21] Carl L. Sheline: For that, you know, and we could be talking about the charter all night here. It's almost all night right now. And one second, Counselor and Agent, if I may, so I wholly understand that we might need to fix a few things, you know, like I fully support your amendment to fix the special election. I would like to, before we start engaging on piecemeal, not piecemeal, Charter Commission, I would really love just a workshop with the city attorney about the Charter so that we can all understand it, some of us are new, and that way the public can also understand it. Yeah, that would be my preference. I think the special election could be, you know, assault right now, and that makes a lot of sense, and then, you know, schedule a workshop shop. Councillor Nijen. [6:08:08] Joshua L. Nagine: Well, first of all, Mr. Mayor, that's an excellent idea. Secondly, I also support the concept of rent stabilization on lots. I would like to point out that there is a state law that was just adopted that doesn't go into effect until August, so very possibly we could accept that state law and make it quicker, right, so that's one piece. And then on that, I think I heard loud and clear tonight that there was some concern in the community about immigration enforcement, and there is an order, there is a state law that goes no effect in July that we will have to adopt, and so therefore it may make sense in the next council meeting to do a first passage of that state law that we'll have to adopt anyways, so that's one piece I'd like to throw out. With that, there's also a proposal for the Rockland ordinance to be accepted by us, and also we also have a standard operating procedure with immigration enforcement within the police department already that's been shared with us, so maybe we could put all three of those things in the packet, kind of look at them and make a determination on whether or not to act on one of them, because it's clear that even many, people with status in our community who are legal residents have concerns about immigration enforcement. And so I think it would be who of us to listen to the residents. Thank you for [6:09:50] Carl L. Sheline: that. I agree completely. Administrator Kane Roth, could you check in with the police chief and get back to us? Seeing no new business, may have a motion to [6:10:02] David B. Chittim: adjourn. You certainly may, Councillor Chittim, second signed by [6:10:06] Carl L. Sheline: Councillor Nagine. Madam Clerk, please call the vote. Yes. Yes,, thank you very much, Madam Clerk. Thank you to everyone here who came. Thank you to everyone who watched from home. Yes, and please check on your neighbors and stay safe. Thank you.