Bangor Tree Board outlines EAB response, Abbott Square planting, and timber plans

[0:00] Speaker A (unidentified): Okay, projects. Timber harvesting. Yeah, so we're getting ready to implement some timber harvesting that's prescribed by some forest management plans. Specifically, first, the division has contracted with Prentice and Carlisle, very local, right here out of... live now audio on with thank you and initially we're going to start with invasive species control and that invasive species control is first going to happen at our winterport property 20 and pip that's really where based on my walk around this week the invasives are pretty bad in there so before we do any forest management in there we've we've looked at all the ipm strategies and the chemical application of herbicides is the best way to handle these invasives prior to harvesting and then after that if they have time and funds based on our current contract with them they'll move on to city forests and other forested properties that we've mentioned in the [1:19] Speaker B (unidentified): past yeah and that's following all local and state laws regarding the use of chemicals so we won't be going anywhere near any water sources I think they're doing hack and squirt yes which is not a foliar application so it's just a dab on the base of the stump so [1:40] Speaker A (unidentified): Dovetail into that, tomorrow we have a Society of American Foresters tour, which Sophia was gracious enough to wholly arrange the schedule and come up with an itinerary. [2:01] Speaker B (unidentified): Yeah, it's going to be fun. and it's from 9 to 12, if I know that we're audio now, but it is going to be from 9 to 12. We're meeting in the parking lot at the Kittredge Road entrance. We do ask that you register the link I shared with you and all the proceeds for signing up go to Supporting Maine SAF, which is a really cool organization that helps young people trying to break into their forestry careers, find jobs. It's really good for networking, connections, et cetera, et cetera, big into like land stewardship and all of that good stuff. But we're going to be going on a walk to see the two areas that are scheduled for harvesting within the next year, harvesting, I say, management of some kind. And then we are also going to get to hang out with Kenzie Roeder, who is the main songbirds biologist for IFNW, and she's going to take us up the hill so we can go look at our bobolink population, which has increased by two pairs in two years, which is a really big deal. So we're going to get to hang out with her, talk birds, do all that fun stuff. So it's going to be a little bit of everything, if anyone is interested. [3:19] Speaker C (unidentified): How's registration going with that? [3:22] Speaker B (unidentified): Okay, there was less advertising on Saf Cent than we thought there would be, but we've got a handful of folks going, but it's at nine. [3:36] Speaker A (unidentified): I had to read it from nine to two, so I think I'm sorry, that's okay. [3:42] Speaker C (unidentified): It's gonna be pretty cool. [3:47] Speaker B (unidentified): Yeah, I think that's all I have for that. Okay, can we go back to A? [3:51] Speaker D (unidentified): It to Twining Pit, so how extensive is the harvest and what's the plan for that lot after? [3:59] Speaker B (unidentified): The herbicides and the harvest, okay, just because I've reviewed the plan, so right now the whole thing got a new forest management plan at the same time that the city forested. Twining Pit is a little bit of a special exception because it's not contained within the city and the properties that Parks and Rec owns contained within the city, we don't pay taxes is on, so we don't need to opt them into certain tax programs. However, Twining Pit is opted into a program called Tree Growth, and so what that means is that you get a reduced tax rate on a per acre basis based on its ability to grow trees, so you do need to produce commercial timber products from the property. Currently as it stands, it also houses our largest red pine stand, which we've talked about why we're concerned about a red pine monoculture right now, especially in Winterport, which is even closer to where an active red pine scale infestation is. So as Ben said, we're going to get the invasive plant population under control and before we open up the ground to any light, because if we open up the ground to light right now with it as it is, it's just going to take off and it's just going to be honeysuckle and buckthorn for the rest of its life. So we're going to get that under control and then we're going to do a thinning of the red pine and just chipping that for biomass so that we can open up some more light to reach the ground so that we can start growing some more species so that it becomes a more diverse forest. We'll see what happens because it's all fill that Roland Perry brought in there. It's actually not brought in fill. It's a normal gravel. Yes, yeah, so it's not great soils. Are you going to actively plant or [5:43] Speaker A (unidentified): you just, we're gonna see what happens. I think there's a lot of surprisingly predominant winds would carry seed from the surrounding forest. There's a lot of nice mature pines, hardwood species. Yeah, so we'll initially the plan is just like typical forestry, hands off for a couple of years, and then we can spec out seedlings for some very forest soil. Yeah. [6:14] Speaker B (unidentified): and then the other thing scheduled for this year is a other two out there 's a single tree selection harvest which is essentially the same concept just on a bigger scale of size of tree and that's just to remove like poorly formed trees that maybe don't carry great genetics and aren't like contributing to the forest health and then additionally it's prescribed to do patch cuts for woodcock habitat to increase early successional habitat on the property and that will be kind of in a rotational way. So we'll do like once cuts this year, next year let that grow up for a couple of years, do another set of patch cuts, so you get this kind of range of ages forest, which they really need. And like, so yeah, that's what's happening at Twining. [7:09] Speaker A (unidentified): Amen. Is this specifically Bancorp Beautiful, or is this a different spot? Just city-wide. Cool. Take it all out. [7:20] Speaker D (unidentified): But yeah, whatever it is, Bancorp. [7:22] Speaker B (unidentified): Careful, Jefferson's here. Just get rid of it. [7:28] Speaker A (unidentified): Thanks to innovative people in this room, thinking outside the box, we have begun an overall citywide discussion, just discussion about, you know, looking at our paving procedures for sidewalks, setting aside green space, figure now where esplanades work. So for those of you who don't know what esplanade is, the grass strip between the sidewalk and the road. And then also figuring out where a right-of-way is wide enough where we can plant either next to the road, because there's no existing sidewalk there, or next to the sidewalk, because we have additional space within the public right-of-way, versus hammering out and removing pavement in the middle, impacting typically the area where underground utilities are, and then planting trees, and then said utilities need repair, and we have to take down the trees we've planted. It's a vicious cycle in the urban environment trying to get trees sustained. So that's a discussion we're having with engineering, paving, public works, planning, actually [8:54] Speaker B (unidentified): yeah, I think mostly we're just all trying to get on the same page [8:59] Speaker A (unidentified): that's how it all works. Yeah, do we think we'll maybe see a pilot next year? I think we're [9:09] Speaker E (unidentified): trying this year to do a couple if we can find funding. Yeah, for it. So we're looking [9:13] Speaker A (unidentified): at some funding sources that we can spare. We are trying to figure out Abbott, but worst [9:18] Speaker B (unidentified): case scenario, we just plant where we can this coming, we'll talk about this later too, but we plant where we can this coming fall, and then we have the nursery now, so we can either keep trees or get new trees later on. Sorry, go ahead. You say funding, I'm just curious [9:34] Speaker C (unidentified): Like even this test area, how much funding would it take to do even, avid isn't, you know, I [9:44] Speaker E (unidentified): think if you try to get rid of some of the paid, there's some striped like islands in there. I think the goal is to saw cut some of that out. It's not much money to do, and I don't. If you want to tip it on, that just touches the tip, so I think we can straight paste that. Yeah. [10:04] Speaker A (unidentified): Because then having, we would look at split form, concrete curves, and it would be kind [10:10] Speaker B (unidentified): of... The plowing. Yeah. Plowing. [10:14] Speaker A (unidentified): If we were to put vegetation or soil in the middle without any curving or whatsoever to wash out, it's probably going to sweep it away. People might just drive over it. So putting in sort of curving. [10:26] Speaker B (unidentified): Much deeper discussion. Yeah, so we're addressing that. I think next week is that meeting, yeah, and we should have a more solid answer on habit specifically then. Yeah, just figuring out a timeline of whether it can happen this year or we just wait until [10:44] Speaker A (unidentified): next spring or yada. Yeah, I mean, I wanted, I wanted to take some shots, some great [10:51] Speaker E (unidentified): Yeah, just to see where the water's going now. Yeah, because I don't, I don't want to put curve up, yeah, on something though, but again, it might be, you know, we're not funding it. If we need to take care of storm water, maybe it's a, if we do some, maybe it's perbed off to not a full curve and we break [11:11] Speaker A (unidentified): the curve and get changed. I was wondering about that. Would definitely help the trees these, if they're just in an elevated curbing situation, the water is far away from them. Yeah, [11:23] Speaker B (unidentified): yeah, but making like a true permeable sort of area. Yeah, it's mostly flat. There is some downhill [11:32] Speaker A (unidentified): away towards the river, and it's that end of the parking lot. We should [11:43] Speaker B (unidentified): have more solid answers at some point. I just wanted to let you guys know that we are working on it. [11:49] Speaker A (unidentified): I'm excited to see it happen. Yeah, planning committee, is that the planning board special committee? So essentially in a goal of kind of, I think I used the term once, improving the municipal machine that the city is, we've been asked to by Anya to join like planning review for building permits, project permits, all those sort of things that planning handles, and basically just look at them and see if there's any concerns from the forestry side of it. Typically for projects it's, I would say 90% on Private property everything they handle and then 10% you know maybe you get a project that has to replant Esplanade trees and things of that nature so now we're we're privy to those meetings and we're able to Sophie and I and look at a project and say you know we have these couple of suggestions and then outside of that no we don't have any suggestions at all that says nothing to do and just keep on going. [13:19] Speaker E (unidentified): Actually we just got a landscape plan from Granville you guys I thought yes yep. [13:26] Speaker C (unidentified): Did see the update yeah we went through it again yeah so I it sounds like another layer but it I think it's an important layer you know because seeing it with different eyes yeah oh yeah. [13:40] Speaker A (unidentified): Yep and then it's it's kind of opening our eyes since we're pretty fresh to the city you know different city ordinances like e-buffers got us so much I don't know things like that developers have to meet that do affect overall the urban tree canopy. We have these ordinances that require buffers and planting of deciduous trees and urban forest management plan looks at tree canopy as a whole private and municipally maintained. [14:13] Speaker D (unidentified): Well, the new land development code has very specific prescriptions for, like you say, buffers, things like that. [14:22] Speaker B (unidentified): Yeah, and we've talked to Anya about that a lot, which has been very interesting. [14:29] Speaker D (unidentified): Native plants, I think they talk about native plants and then you could. [14:33] Speaker B (unidentified): Yeah, I just went through, well Anya is away right now, but she and I are working together to develop like a comprehensive list of like here's what you really good options. I think there's going to be some flexibility worked in for availability, but yeah. [14:51] Speaker D (unidentified): Like diversity, where was I the Lowe's parking lot they actually have trees in the Lowe's parking lot but I think they're almost all the same species of tree yeah that's the case where some guidance might be good to say no you need a little more variety there yeah. [15:12] Speaker A (unidentified): EAP injection all right so do you want have injected 431 trees there 430 there's one at Downey School that I can't get until okay. [15:34] Speaker D (unidentified): Yeah the kids are no longer there yes patience how long did it take you per tree and on average. [15:42] Speaker A (unidentified): Oh that's a tough one to nail down probably per tree I want to say five minutes honestly. [15:52] Speaker B (unidentified): Honestly. Ben and I were doing it kind of in tandem. So like he would drill the holes and put in the plugs and then I'd come behind and inject them. But yeah, from drill time to injection time, it averaged like five minutes. So pretty, efficient. [16:11] Speaker C (unidentified): And your overjet just does it like completely? [16:14] Speaker B (unidentified): Yeah. So it's a pressurized air system. So we have like a little canister of pressurized stair and then it works with the uptake of the tree to like push it in faster it's a pretty [16:27] Speaker D (unidentified): cool system has [16:31] Speaker C (unidentified): that list changed as you're going around as far as what trees you're creating because I heard a rumor that there was one on my block that was supposed to be the one on Layton yes [16:42] Speaker B (unidentified): Yeah so when I first looked at them I before I paint any tree I go out and look at all of them because I was trying to be time efficient, I started before leaf out and I was just looking purely at like form. And then as I was going back, any trees that like their canopy suddenly was not looking as good as it did the year before, or it had some sort of drastic change, like major limb loss. I think that tree specifically had a large limb fall off of it. And like, then the weight of it kind of shifted in a weird way. Then those were elected it to not treat because essentially what we're trying to do is like pick the nicest of the nicest that we can as well as trying to make sure it's like spread out as equally as possible across the city and then yeah if a certain tree was removed another one was found in the same neighborhood to add in so like there's another one up I think I'm gonna forget what road it's on [17:42] Speaker C (unidentified): on but it is in Little City that got added in trees coming down yeah so and I understand it just that we've lost so many trees yeah and I know you planted some trees but well you guys are [17:56] Speaker B (unidentified): on the list for a bigger planting we're just trying to figure out the painting thing [18:03] Speaker C (unidentified): not to play any favorites I'm just like no Little City does need it and I do know the person that lives at that property where that tree is thinks that the tree hasn't changed ever since she's you know in years so if possible may I have her reach out to either yeah and we can explain [18:22] Speaker B (unidentified): the situation yeah who would be the better or I can I can talk to her about it just because [18:30] Speaker A (unidentified): I was the one that looked at it yeah totally give her that option sure yeah thanks so the plan is still to inject as many trees as possible but we're only doing so many per year yeah so we [18:45] Speaker B (unidentified): It's split into three groups, so the blue is group one, and we did the first 85 of that last year before we had approval to increase our numbers from 250 total to like 750 to a thousand total, and that's what we ran the math, that's what we can afford over the course of 10 years. And with that, some of the year one trees got injected this year. And instead of waiting three years, like we originally planned, we'll just wait two so that they can catch up to the ones that were injected last year. The pink are group two, they got injected this year, they'll get injected again in three years. And then green will be group three, which will happen next year and then they'll get injected three years from then. So that's the current plan. Land obviously all of those trees from year to year because this is pretty experimental isn't the right word, it hasn't been done like this in Maine before and it hasn't been done kind of ahead of infestation like this before in any meaningful way that I've been able to find in other municipalities, so every year those trees get looked at like every single one of them, like whether it's a drive-by or whatever. So if like we come upon one that's like, oh, we injected that last year, but it's really struggling. Like then we spend more time figuring out why that happened. And we keep pretty meticulous records of everything that's going on. And that way too, we're able to kind of like pinpoint our dosage of like, oh, well, you know, we did two and a half per inch last year. And those seem to be doing the exact same as the ones we did two mils per inch on, so then we can like decrease the overall dosage by half and save the city some money, so it's kind of like a, again, experiment sounds hokey, but it's, we're learning things, I would say reality, yeah, research, unofficial research [20:48] Speaker D (unidentified): To learn how to better do this in the future, so I'm embarrassed to say I haven't looked at the EAB page on the forestry division website. Have you updated it with the information of the infestation? [21:03] Speaker B (unidentified): Need to, it just kind of hit really fast. And then, so we got the announcement May 10th, I want to say, and then like a week or two later, I was out, no, it was later than that. We got it like mid-May and then I went out to- Sometime in June. Yeah, I went out to Cape Heart for some reason. I can't remember why. Oh, it was because we were planting those trees, and I went out to look at them to make sure they were doing okay, and then we saw all the dead trees, and then it was like, oh crap, so then it got a little more urgent. So we need to kind of backtrack and do all the [21:38] Speaker D (unidentified): information updating. But I, as you may know, since I contacted you, Sophie, about it, might be useful, I don't know if you can do that, name some companies locally. The state pesticide applicators licensee chart is not sorted by location. Why couldn't they put in the address? I will define local businesses for people who own totally privately. I will say [22:05] Speaker B (unidentified): I think we need to update ours because there's a lot of other people who have reached out to us in the meantime as local applicators that like would like to be included on that list. But we do have a list of like the more local ones based off of the main forest service. They have like a specific, it's not the board of life center, it's like the main forest service made a list of like these are the people in your area that will come and treat trees, and we found the ones that were the closest, granted some of the ones that were the closest are in Cape Elizabeth. So I think we need to like actually kind of go through the yellow pages and figure out not just what was [22:42] Speaker D (unidentified): on their list but also what we can find separately. I did find a one other person who is I think in Orrington did respond and said they could come, but by then I'd already connected with our farmer. But yeah,, it's going to be hard for people to get their head around treating their trees to begin with, and then if there's too many hoops to jump through [23:08] Speaker B (unidentified): people just won't do it. That's the other thing where we're hoping like the community aspect that we all love so much about Bangor kicks in, especially with like little neighborhoods where folks really are in connection with each other, is like if you have private ash trees, talking to each other about it and finding a company that everyone agrees on to come out and do them in big batches, because that way I'm, I'm sure at some point you can figure out a discount for like that, and also So it's way more efficient than like a company coming out to little city, but then, oh, we have to go all the way back over to Orland or Blue Hill. And then we have to come back out here to get somebody else's. So I think that would improve the availability of licensed pesticide applicators as well. [23:56] Speaker D (unidentified): I thought about that and I did not get my act together to organize, but it's. [24:01] Speaker B (unidentified): You're also kind of on the war front over there, unfortunately. Yeah. [24:07] Speaker D (unidentified): But I wonder if the applicators, like maybe I could ask over armor if they have a sign they can put on my lawn. Yeah, that said totally, you know, we treated this tree for emerald ash borer. [24:18] Speaker B (unidentified): Call, yeah, I see that a lot. I saw a lot of that in Camden because I think they're starting to mobilize. Yeah, I'll talk to them about that. Sure. Well, speaking of that, I mean, when you're [24:30] Speaker C (unidentified): taking down a tree in a neighborhood, if there's such a sign, or is that a way of at least, I mean, for private removals? Yeah, I guess maybe the city wouldn't, doesn't want to recommend necessarily. I mean, I don't think we can put forward any particular [24:48] Speaker B (unidentified): person, but like that doesn't stop them from marketing their own business, you know, like they [24:53] Speaker A (unidentified): can do whatever they do, and I think they just have to be mindful of where they place the signs. It has [24:58] Speaker C (unidentified): to be on the right. It's got to be outside. I was thinking more of the city when you put that sign that says this tree was taken down because, oh yeah, then you know, if it was information that [25:09] Speaker D (unidentified): they could go to, or just a link to the EAB page. I have, I do have a link on there to our EAB page. [25:15] Speaker B (unidentified): Obviously you can't hyperlink things in real life, but it is there. Still focusing on Herman, [25:25] Speaker A (unidentified): Herman as the front, like is it at this point? It surprised us. Yeah, well, I mean, that is [25:30] Speaker B (unidentified): the closest to Herman. Yeah, we're close to Herman, so that was a surprise. The first detection was on Outer Essex. Oh. Out by Burley Road. That was the first detection that we heard from the Forest Service about. So we know that it's as far up as there. I think they're separate. Like there was some sort of firewood brought in at Outer Essex, and then there was some sort of firewood brought in to Cape Heart, and like there too, because in [25:59] Speaker A (unidentified): between them we don't see anything so far. Nothing on Finson Road, nothing on Broadway. Can I add another data point that you guys can go check out? Sure. There's two to three dead ash in the target parking lot between BGA. I've seen them. Yeah, and I figured like they're full-size. [26:17] Speaker B (unidentified): Probably yeah, and then that side of town has so many ash trees. Yeah, and it's tricky because we don't have the capacity to do kind of infestation spread mapping that I would love to do because I think it would be super helpful, but it's just like not practical. So at this point we're assuming every ashtray in the city has EAB. Like that's the unfortunate reality of the situation is once you find it in one tree, it's a pretty safe assumption that like [26:49] Speaker A (unidentified): Yeah. And as long as you're just spreading out where you're treating, that's the best you can do. Yeah, that's the best way. [26:54] Speaker B (unidentified): Then that was kind of what we baked into the initial plan, is that we'd try to cover the whole city as best as we possibly could. At least to, because we haven't, there's never been an expectation or any, you know, advertisement that we're trying to prevent the spread of EAB because we just simply can't. Like we can't control what everyone does, and we can't control where people bring things, and you know we're just trying to preserve certain trees in each neighborhood sort of as a point of pride for a seed bank biological source, and also in the hopes that like someday maybe we can you know stop treating them and just have them continue to be street trees to maintain canopy coverage. But yeah, unfortunately with something that small you can't really tell where it is [27:45] Speaker D (unidentified): And then I'm thinking about the notification, you know, on the alert list from the city about that it was discovered, and I read it at the time. Now I can't remember, does it say something about if you own an ash tree privately you need to take recommend you take steps? I would have to look back at it because it was so long ago now that I can't remember, but I so maybe it wouldn't hurt even if you did maybe yeah or to do another one. Yeah. And then refer people to the main forestry list or her website. [28:18] Speaker B (unidentified): I think we are sort of on the, like I spoke to you in our email chain, we're sort of on the cusp. I think we have like a couple more weeks of viable treatment, but with how dry it's been, uptake is going to be pretty limited in the next coming months. So I think we're planning on doing like every spring, a big push in that way. And we have kind we didn't do it as formally this year, but we have tried every spring to do [28:46] Speaker D (unidentified): Something to sort of advertise it, and as I recall as long as the tree has extra amount of canopy [28:53] Speaker B (unidentified): It's still viable for treatment, yeah. 48, which is where 40, they did this whole study is like when most people start to notice that the tree is declining, unfortunately. But people aren't looking up, okay. [29:17] Speaker A (unidentified): Maybe removals, I already covered that, yeah. I think as you drive around the city, you're gonna start to see the levels popping up at a much more frequent pace than previous. I think calendar year, last year, we might have hit 70 trees removed. [29:44] Speaker B (unidentified): It was like 72 or something. [29:46] Speaker A (unidentified): All throughout the city. What we're looking to remove for Emerald Ash Borer, it's likely going to take two years? [Speaker B (unidentified): More, probably.] Probably two to three years for us to remove the number of trees, that number as it stands based on our current inventory, and then what Sophia has looked at is 340. [30:14] Speaker B (unidentified): So it's going to be really dramatic, unfortunately. We're going to try to stagger it as much as [30:19] Speaker A (unidentified): possible, and that's not including all the private ones, they're just over the line, not including so many neighborhoods, a lot of the younger neighborhoods, unfortunately, yeah. And that is where, as a city in a division, we've changed our planting practices. It was lovely and it still is lovely to see perfectly uniform street trees of all the same species, but now there are streets in Bangor that are purely ash trees. And unfortunately, you know, we're removing a majority of them, so that's a big canopy loss. It's going to be going to be warm in certain sections of the city, but there's really no, you know, preventing that. We're we're working on assisting it as much as we can, but first it was Dutch elm disease and now it's an old ash war, but that's how it is going to be forever. There's always going to be some unforeseen thing that comes on, but having that biodiversity that we plant out is kind of key to, yeah, maintaining [31:31] Speaker B (unidentified): and that's where also, like you said, being on the planning review team is helpful to increase, planning review team is helpful because then we can kind of advocate for not the same tree. [31:43] Speaker D (unidentified): And I still, I still want to advocate for shrubs. Oh, totally, yep. They're green, they may not provide, is not shade, but they're providing other benefits, yeah, and they grow faster. Is there, I'm sorry, is [31:59] Speaker C (unidentified): there a way of letting people know, and I'm sure it's difficult, the time frame of cutting down these, their tree, and then a schedule when you think a new tree might be planted? It's hard. [32:13] Speaker A (unidentified): It's really hard based on the scoring. The tree inventory that the interns completed in 2024 gave a rough score based on their judgment of a tree's health, zero being completely dead, four being beautiful. No real evidence dead trees. Sophie has somewhat modified those ratings to reflect this tree is a super hazard. It's already declined. It's over public infrastructure. It hits all the dots for being moved up first. Trees on like isolated dead end streets that are not around anybody's homes, chances are if they're not a threat to public safety, they're gonna get held off until last or until they're clearly dead. Yeah, and then we'll remove them. But as of right now, obviously clearly dead trees are coming down first, and then kind of looking down. Yeah, on that. So on a case-by-case basis, we could give a rough idea, but having a schedule in a municipality with well now the water's even if you make it moving parts i Attempt every week to schedule the crew for two weeks out so i have an idea of what equipment i need to borrow, what the crew can do, who can go on vacation, this that and everything. Thankfully a lot of people don't go on vacation. Every day is a vacation. Yes. Yeah, but you know scheduling and figuring out budgets. Yeah, so in terms of the replacement, it's tricky because [34:10] Speaker B (unidentified): We've transitioned to corridor planting so that we can be more impactful. We've already seen a pretty drastic increase in survivability just by doing that, which means that we're headed in the right direction. It depends on the current canopy score of your neighborhood. So right now we are really trying to focus on neighborhoods like Cape Heart, neighborhoods like downtown specifically, though downtown's a special case. There's going to be a lot of stuff the changes down there, but sort of like downtown adjacent, first second third Street sort of deal, places that have a really low canopy coverage score right now. Center Street. Yeah, and again those canopy scores are based on the overall canopy, not just the street trees that you have on your street. So like trees Like the tree streets, you guys don't have a lot of street trees, but folks have a lot of trees in their backyards. So you guys have a pretty high canopy score. [35:13] Speaker D (unidentified): They're just all Norway maples. [35:15] Speaker B (unidentified): They're all Norway maples, yes. So like, you know, there are certain neighborhoods that are not as high of a priority for replanting. Again, we're trying, you know, we've secured our funding for next year. So like we have our botanicals budget that's gonna be super helpful. We're working with Maine Audubon, so we hope to get more trees, progressively more and more trees in the ground every year, which means that we can cover more and more area. But we are only so many people, we have limited capacity. So it's, again, same as Ben's answer, hard to make a schedule because it changes, unfortunately. [36:01] Speaker D (unidentified): It's segue to- [36:03] Speaker A (unidentified): Yeah, any more questions on that before we talk about adding more trees? Of course, we did this really fast and didn't actually change the title, please call. All okay everything on this thing can change I just try to summarize what we normally do [Speaker D (unidentified): we want] to do 25 trees in Abbott Square which is where the Bangor Farmers Market is these would come are coming through Maine Audubon so they are donating all the trees which right? And there's the possibility that about 200 to 25 square feet of asphalt could be removed. There's like three, four medians in that parking lot. Three medians. One has grass and a single surviving tree. It had more, but I'm assuming the bill is awful and it's in a parking lot where it just bakes. And snowplows. Yes and snowplows. So we want to replant that one and one of the other two the median where the part where the farmer's market is like they all like center around that ideally remove the asphalt there and add six new trees there. And so this is the list we worked with Maine Audubon to make sure they were all that you get all of them so these are all trees that are historically native to Maine no non-service berries and there's even some fun pitch pine which would be cool they do really well on that like hot dry hill comes down onto Franklin Street and a couple like smaller more shrubby trees like chokecherry and even the flowering dogwood although they get bigger they can I think [38:21] Speaker B (unidentified): chokecherry is the only one I've ever actually seen a tree form of yeah they max out at about [38:28] Speaker A (unidentified): 20 feet they don't get huge so we plant all of this backside actually has the map up a lot of planting in the medians off the side as well as throwing out those center medians. [38:49] Speaker C (unidentified): Yeah. Is this wide enough to plant? [38:53] Speaker A (unidentified): I'd say it's five feet but maybe it's four. [39:01] Speaker B (unidentified): We'll see what it looks like when we're done with it. Yeah. [39:06] Speaker A (unidentified): The lighting right in the middle. Yeah, we're going to try to, that's what we're talking about next week. We found to put in some, replace those holes with some dark sky compliant. I will say the electric was very excited for the potential to remove those holes, but you're probably gonna [39:31] Speaker E (unidentified): it all the time. Yeah. Oh yeah. Is [39:36] Speaker C (unidentified): there any possibility, and I'm wondering if that maybe a [39:40] Speaker A (unidentified): space or two, auto space or two, could be donated to put their trees. Previously, if my memory serves me right, there was a garden behind where you now pay for parking. I think a few years ago there still is, isn't it? No, if you look at these couple of spaces here, oh okay, this was a garden and it ran across to where the painted pedestal is. I think there was a sidewalk there, but when they went to the automated machine versus the booth, yeah, they also divided the parking lot into two, so you have to go in and out that way, and they closed off that far travel lane. Yeah, [40:29] Speaker B (unidentified): so that's probably why they, I don't know, I assume. I will say there's a lot of stress downtown about [40:36] Speaker A (unidentified): parking right now, and I'm assuming this lot is pretty desirable inside. Yeah, a bunch of big businesses, so I would, unless there was room in the travel lanes to like, it looks pretty tight [40:50] Speaker B (unidentified): as it is, like I can't imagine shrinking travel lanes to go into the market spaces. I think there's certainly opportunity on the Franklin Street side. There's like a lot of like invasive shrubs and stuff on that hill. I think there's probably opportunity to squeeze, get those out, and squeeze [41:11] Speaker A (unidentified): some more stuff in there. That was another thing that I wanted to talk about at some point was [41:16] Speaker B (unidentified): building, it was a very large burning bushes. We just have to double check that they're not adoptable beds, not that hillside, not the hill. Okay, just at the bottom there's some over where the curb is at Franklin. Okay. Oh, and then those two tree wells technically. Yeah, because [41:36] Speaker A (unidentified): then additionally as an added area, I mean it's not seen very often by the public, and there is some baby items that need to happen, but the backside steps near the parking lot to Half Acre that used to be a garden bed that forestry division maintained, since been taken off the list, but that's an area where I think some additional trees that we can't plant there could go. I don't know what the plans are for those that's going down in there, but I think [42:12] Speaker B (unidentified): they're shut down right now. They go down to, they're on this hillside, but like it's literally probably where they're taking the picture from. Yeah, but they've had caution tape on them for [42:25] Speaker A (unidentified): Yes, at least the entire time I've lived here. It would be nice to get some canopy into the parking lot. Totally, it's just brutal. It is brutal. Yeah, brutal. Farmer's market, I know it's not, it's like the worst place to plant, but yeah, I'll figure it out. Yep. And I would have to double check. What are you thinking of planting along that back? Those were going to be the smaller. Okay, yeah, smaller, like flowering dogwoods. Yeah, dogwood. So it's very, any of the short ones. [43:07] Speaker B (unidentified): Are you saying that because of the three face? Yes. Yeah. Okay. [43:11] Speaker A (unidentified): Yeah, I think all the large canopy trees are either out in the center or on the far, would be on the far side, closer to like the pitch line would be over, closer to Franklin. [43:26] Speaker B (unidentified): I do worry about survivability on the Franklin side, especially close to that Desire Trail, just with like soil compaction. [43:35] Speaker A (unidentified): Yeah, and I wouldn't put it in a Desire Trail. Yeah. Especially since that desire trail is where a set of steps used to be, but the city was like, that's too much to maintain. We only need one set of steps. Now you get a desire trail. [43:49] Speaker B (unidentified): Yeah, but we should just buffer off of that as much as we can. Yeah. [43:53] Speaker D (unidentified): I wonder if you could do a couple of test trees with that planting in the box method that we talked about, where you like build a box around it so the roots go down rather than I read an article about it. Oh, the silva cells, right? Is that what it was? [44:14] Speaker A (unidentified): Yeah, soil, cells, silva cells. The ones where it allows you to have a hard surface. [44:20] Speaker D (unidentified): Around it. Yes, exactly. It protects the tree from that compaction around it. It's more expensive, I understand, to do, but it might be nice to do a couple test trees in an area that's going to have a lot of compaction and heat. [44:34] Speaker A (unidentified): And see if it could be a hoarding. Yeah, I can look at how much it would be and if there is room with the infrastructure. I think on Franklin Street there is also conduit going to that one. Yeah, lonely street light by the desire to. I've also never seen those soil cells on an incline. Yeah, like they're generally an area where they need room to walk on the sidewalk, but the tree also that needs permeable water nearby. It might make that better. Yeah, that's what I was thinking, some green parking spaces. [45:15] Speaker D (unidentified): And or put in permeable surfaces, you know, that, what's the asphalt now, that's the permeable stuff. I don't know if it's asphalt, some stuff, things permeable pavement around. [45:27] Speaker A (unidentified): Around a couple of trees and see like a square foot, so there's, you got previous pavement. [45:38] Speaker E (unidentified): And previous concrete, previous pavement, is hard because plants have to shut down to make a special batch. Oh, so that doesn't happen, they just don't do it anymore. It's not at scale because it's like, can I have one ton, you know? So it's very hard to get that made around here, very hard, especially when you have, you know, two or three plants that legends focus on dot pavement and stuff, but you know, pervade concrete. There are pre-made panels. Franklin Street had them on in like 2008. They lasted two years. They crumbled away way, but they have better, you know, we have permanent pavers too. Yeah, I mean, there are there are options, you know. The Eastern Main Community College has had pervious pavements since like 2006, and they take care of it, they sweep it, and it's lasted since then. So it can be done, it's just it costs more, I'd [46:49] Speaker A (unidentified): say if we could just get asphalt removal and herbs, but a tall order, so [46:58] Speaker B (unidentified): I don't know, well, it's a good first step though. Yeah, and figure out the [47:02] Speaker A (unidentified): ins and outs of how to do it and all right, we're a little over. The only other thing I had on here was I picked a tentative date, but you have [47:23] Speaker D (unidentified): for the meeting, October 23rd. Oh, sorry, for [47:26] Speaker B (unidentified): the planting. Yeah, I would say we should try to move that earlier because we want like three weeks before the first frost I [47:37] Speaker A (unidentified): recently learned. Yeah, okay, and then we'll it'll be longer because there's 25 trees and we run out of time a lot, a couple times, so we'll do it like two shifts where [47:48] Speaker B (unidentified): people come for two hours, take a little break. I think it'd be cool to get the farmers market people involved, so yes, just because they have a anyone vested interest, yes, they are farmers, so they are generally busy, never mind, to get them to come on, it's really and I'm teller or actually, yeah, that's the last. Yeah, okay, I think that's a good thing. Did they plant anything before October moved up to the 16th, or should I move it that one day? [48:22] Speaker A (unidentified): Yeah, that gives us another week back and six inches of stuff. Yeah, it's a pride, it had to happen. We have had those Halloween school, yeah, winter ops not the same main winters we had 30. [48:37] Speaker D (unidentified): Is it okay, I just want to say one more thing, how impressed I am with the newsletter. [48:43] Speaker B (unidentified): I was going to say that as well, but thank you, it's fun, it's like my little relaxation time. [48:55] Speaker D (unidentified): Valuable information displayed out well and yeah, and I'm excited to realize it was just you do. [49:01] Speaker B (unidentified): Was it 's just you doing it that well, people write things and send it to me. Yeah, people write things and send it to me, so it's you know a little bit of a community effort, but yeah, it's fun. [49:15] Speaker E (unidentified): The only thing I had for removals, Broad Independent Washington, that little island. Yeah, they use, I keep getting bugged about that, the one. Yeah, I think there's, what is it, Canadian news? I haven't even been up there in a while. Oh, the shrubs. Yeah, I think that's blocking. [49:34] Speaker A (unidentified): Side triangles, yeah, that little area that you can't see around it, but putting it. [49:41] Speaker C (unidentified): I mean, putting something there because it's a nice touch having, well, what can we put it, greenery? [49:46] Speaker B (unidentified): Put it back there. It's just that people can't see around it when they're trying. Yeah, when you're. [49:50] Speaker E (unidentified): Turned, when you're, yeah, when you're trying to make a right turn and you're looking up, you can't see. [49:55] Speaker A (unidentified): Broad Street bus, yeah, Sandals spawn pool by the pump station, Sandal. Oh, okay, sorry. Yeah, when. [50:05] Speaker E (unidentified): You're trying to turn right onto Broad Street, if you're on, if you're coming from like the Sea Dog, you're next to the pump station, you want to turn right on Washington. Yeah, and you're looking back, there's that traffic island. Oh yes, but you can't, you have to creep way out and wanted to. [50:21] Speaker C (unidentified): Get any, that's dangerous, you know, cars coming down. Yeah, I mean, it's a 25 mile an. [50:27] Speaker A (unidentified): Hour, but it's a plane, essentially that's a plane that will be all changed. Yeah, I think we can pull a mountain, I'll do something different. Yeah, just yeah, we didn't put trees in it because we were new, we're going to do something different, but that could be that session way down the road. [50:46] Speaker B (unidentified): Okay, well, I don't think we have any other requests, right? No. Okay, well, we might have one soon because. [50:57] Speaker C (unidentified): I think a neighbor of mine spoke with you about a tree in front, so that's another tree that most. [51:02] Speaker B (unidentified): Likely will be down on my block. Oh, I put in a service request about it. Yep. [51:09] Speaker C (unidentified): Just for you to look at, my small dog, only six houses long. [51:14] Speaker D (unidentified): I was out in my driveway the other night and I heard this cracking sound, turn around, a maple tree in the corner, a big branch just fell off it, no wind, nothing, just crap that time of year. [51:25] Speaker B (unidentified): It's dry, it didn't hit the building. Right now, is that what you needed to pick my brain about? I. [51:32] Speaker C (unidentified): Think, I okay, yeah, it's about my name or maybe getting in touch with you. Yeah, no, I'm happy to. [51:37] Speaker B (unidentified): Talk to her about it. I remember, I remember that tree because they went up to it and I was like, wow, that looks a lot worse than I thought it did. Yeah, it's, I think it's just that there's so much epicormic sprouting along.