Downtown Parking Committee reviews study, proposes public meeting and governance changes

[1:31] Joseph Leonard: Oh, we're live. Yes, oh, okay. Good evening everyone. This is a regularly scheduled meeting of the Downtown Bangor Parking Committee. I am Counselor Leonard. I am the chair of this committee. I'm actually going to have everyone go around the room to introduce themselves and let's [1:51] Jake Berkowitz: go counterclockwise. I'm Jake Berkowitz. I'm the general manager of the Cross Insurance Center. [1:57] Alton Buzzell: Alton Buzzle, director of marketing for Hollywood Casino. Dan Ross, Body Wise Pilates. [2:02] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: Kelsey Hobbs, Downtown Restaurant and Professor. Have you perceived me? [2:07] Alton Buzzell: All right, Clemens, general manager of DCI Business Services with the Martini Company. [2:13] Speaker E (unidentified): He's definitely the Smith of Development Offices. [2:17] Alton Buzzell: I'm Robbie Finley. I get some of the property on here at 37 Bond Street and I work at Unit 2. [2:24] Eric Crocker: Eric Crocker. I'm an attorney that represents Brontes Rental Company and they are owners of property located at 158 Main Street in Downtown Bangor. I'm on incline. I'm a planning officer. [2:37] Speaker G (unidentified): I'm in Creed. I'm the director of community and economic development for the city. [2:45] Joseph Leonard: Okay, thank you all for coming here and thank you so much for your service to the city on this committee. So we're gonna go right ahead and get into a new business for a GNISD parking buffer requirements. This is just a discussion, so do you want to take the lead? [3:05] Justin Delacruz: I will, thank you. So this is a proposed change, potential change that we brought to the planning board and the business and economic development committee and it would be to Currently, we in our ordinance require a vegetative buffer between off-street parking lots and zones, parcels in the G and ISD zone, government and institutional service, and it's a 20-foot buffer, so it's pretty substantial, and what we have found is that, you know, most of the uses in the G and ISD zone are pretty intensive and can sometimes be kind of commercial, you know and institutional obviously so that can present a barrier to commercial development in other places seemingly unnecessarily since they kind of have similar uses in some cases and in downtown in particular you know this would definitely be a barrier because these are so tight downtown it would be really hard not impossible people to achieve that buffer when they might want to create new parking so we did when we brought this to planning board They did just have a request that we may cut out for any lots in GISD that have residences, schools, or cemeteries. So we would still require a buffer between parking and those uses, but other uses that are more commercial nature we would not. So Council Leonard did request that we bring [4:31] Speaker E (unidentified): this to you all since it involves parking to get your thoughts, questions, or comments. [4:39] Alton Buzzell: Do we have any speak freely? Yes. Do we have any specific instances where it has inhibited a business from relocated or you know or if directly impacted? Yeah, it actually [4:52] Justin Delacruz: influenced. There was a development that was actually, it was a church, I think the church was next to another GNISD zone and they were proposing parking, so that was barrier for them. And then also there's another development where they simply like they're trying to add new parking for the business, and they simply can't do it because they can't do that. They don't have enough lot with to meet that buffer requirement that [5:24] Alton Buzzell: inhibiting them from expanding their business. [5:26] Justin Delacruz: Yes, and honestly from maintaining their current business, so that is that they're getting more customers. [5:33] Eric Crocker: Justin Delacruz, Any [5:39] Joseph Leonard: other thoughts on the matter or so, I know that Council. Justin Delacruz, Obviously, this is a request by me to bring this to this committee just I wanted to be as transparent with the decision as possible, it seemed pretty straightforward overall and I don't want to muddy the waters any further, so if, as long as this committee is unanimous in its. approval or overall status of discussion I'm more than happy to just continue on forward with the recommendations of staff. Okay moving on we have some new legislation to discuss, pretty exciting. [6:35] Justin Delacruz: So this was a effort by the state. They passed a lot of laws last year in the effort to prevent more affordable housing, more housing in general. And so one of those efforts was around parking and off-street parking. So basically they're requiring municipalities to allow people to have often offsite parking agreement with another entity within 0.25 miles quarter mile of their use. So as long as they have, you know, an official lease agreement for that parking, and they can show that off street parking area is going to meet their parking demand. Hand that will is supposed to satisfy our parking requirements. So I think that also would impact downtown because obviously, you know, there's not always parking. We're often not parking on people's logs, so they may need to have that off-site parking agreement. Are there any questions on that or [7:40] Joseph Leonard: else quibbles complaints? All right, well fairly straightforward then I guess. Let's, unless staff has anything else to add, let's go ahead and talk about the party proposal. I don't know what [8:10] Justin Delacruz: so I can review it unless do you all want to postpone when the applicant can be here? I don't know how these should have worked in that party meeting. So I know that other things [8:29] Joseph Leonard: I guess before we go into, are we, is this committee comfortable going forward with this discussion with the proposal individual not here, or do you want to postpone? I'm comfortable [8:46] Alton Buzzell: moving forward. They've stated their case. Oh did they here in the email? I feel like so I mean [8:53] Justin Delacruz: and yeah I don't know, I'm not sure if it was forwarded to you all, but we also received an email. I think his name is Eric Rocker, I think he was, I'm sorry. So yes, I don't represent [9:04] Eric Crocker: the person who made the proposal. It's, I don't know how much, I had an email that I don't know that got forwarded, but I feel like for the purposes of this meeting we do, we do have aligned interests. We represent the folks that are at the neighboring property, which is just below your screen, and I actually printed some pictures to show you a little bit more detail. I don't know what the email was that she said, but I do, there is actually litigation between the parties and I don't want to get into the adversarial aspects of it, but we were joined in having certain parking spaces re-designated in front of their building to be, and I think that it's there in those yellow boxes, to get them re-designated to a commercial loading zone, because there's an ongoing issue where, as you can see that driveway that's just below the building, that's owned by my clients, but their building, their parking lot is on the other side, and so a lot of patrons of Mtine, I'm not sure if you've gone there, I heard It's great food. I've been a little nervous going there. If they got my name, I don't know if they're upset with me. But they, the patrons may opt not to go into the parking lot that's technically that building owners, but instead we'll circle around and go to the side of the building that is naturally closer, but it's technically on our client's property. And so, and where the issue is particularly acute is with DoorDash users. They'll come in, their thought processes, I'm just making a quick pickup, I'm only gonna be here for two minutes. My clients are watching the building very closely, watching the driver very closely. They'll call MTI9, sometimes they get a response, sometimes not. And you know, I think at least part of the time MTI9 is like, look, they're only there for a couple minutes. By the time I tell them to do anything, I just had them handle their bag and they're gone. And you know, for my client's part, it's like the death by a thousand cuts kind of problem. I have sympathy for the other side because the way the building is structured, it naturally lends itself for patrons to go into that driveway. We're kind of working on better signage. That's one way to kind of really, you know, steer the traffic. It's never going to be a perfect solution because people are just going to look for the closest entrance, especially this time of the year when they want to get as close as possible and walk outside as you know little as possible. So those two spaces right now, I believe, are 90 minute parking spaces. So if you have one random customer that comes in, they're just going to go in and enjoy that great parking space, and then that's 90 minutes that you don't have Door Dashers that can just go in and out. If we can make a commercial loading zone, the Door Dashers would have more access to that. It would mitigate the problem. And then, you know, sometimes and other issues that there's like food vendors or, you know, maintenance workers that'll come in for a time, they also can utilize that space as well. So I think, I don't know exactly what they proposed, but I think we're, I think we're aligned and getting proposed. I have other pictures if people want to just take a look at the building, maybe, you know, that layout so well, but it's, it's the hopeful building is our building, and then it's MTI nine is that really nice building on the other side of it. But unfortunately I printed it in black and white, but you can see the building really does, the MTI nine building really does lend itself to you Know coming in on that side, so I could just ask them around if people want to take a look at it. And then I just, they're Google Map pictures. It's not, I mean, you can literally just like look at them on your phone and travel it yourself. But yeah, those two spaces, I'm not the first attorney on this case. The attorney that originally represented Brontis Rental Company, he just happened to become a judge, and I took this case over. So I am kind of getting into this in midstream. So, you know, I wasn't involved in pre-litigation efforts to try and resolve this without taking it to court. It was already in court once I got involved. But yeah, and I don't know the exact process on getting something re-designated. I just heard about this meeting. I will go and talk to people and see what I can find out. So if there's more formal processes that you have to engage in, please let me know. I'll do the legwork on that. But yeah, I mean, that's pretty much the situation. Whatever can be done, please let me know. [13:48] Joseph Leonard: I guess before discussion, I know that this is an area of parking that is our most problematic, and so I'm not sure if this source strategy would help or impede those issues, but I definitely am open to either opinion if the committee wants to further discuss this. [14:12] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: yes and also just feel free to speak freely question so is what they in the email it says short term 10 to 15 minute parking limits but this is that what commercial is that the same [14:26] Speaker G (unidentified): thing, are those two different things? Okay, I'm not opposed to that proposal either, I mean, [14:34] Eric Crocker: i'm open to creative solutions whatever makes most sense i know that really for you it's more about the city than it is about these two particular property owners so i know that those views are not aligned i mean i can tell you that there have been some instances where the police have been called because they're really trying to get a car to get moved to move those are the more extreme incidents a lot of it is more the by the time i get out there the door dash is gone and then there's also those four spots there too, like in front of the Brontis, the Hopeful Building thing too. So you know, whether it's commercial loading, whether it's 10, 15 minutes, I'm open to [15:12] Speaker E (unidentified): you know, we're open to that. So then I have two thoughts. I think you said previously that y'all [15:20] Alton Buzzell: can't enforce end of the human spots. I mean, we will force it as part of the routine, right, but [15:27] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: it won't be like on the top which the car's not coming around every 15 minutes right which isn't a huge deal of people think that you're going to enforce it correct i guess the question i have is like that works before five but then at five those become like not enforced time limits at all so in the evenings like particularly with door dash i think of that as being like an evening experience to me that doesn't necessarily solve the problem, because at dinner time people are gonna still park in those spots for however long they want. So in that sense, then it makes sense to make it a more of like the commercial loading idea. If door gosh knows they're allowed to part there, because then regular people can't park in that space. [16:22] Alton Buzzell: I think commercial just to give some definition, I think what I understand for commercial parking requires a commercial plate. So if they were to park there again, it needs to be like a loading zone or something. Thing and you know I think I think you know giving all the ramifications, loading zones, there are loading zones throughout the city, so those are an option, but those typically are for you know trucks and trucks. I just don't, I mean, DoorDash is certainly something every city is dealing with and how to how to keep that for turning over. So I mean the 15-minute zone, we have a few of those throughout the city, so that's an option. Again, it's it's more of a deterrent than it is an enforceable, just as long as the committee's aware of that, is that short-term [17:23] Jake Berkowitz: parking you mentioned how it's after 500 it's not in effect but does the sign say until five can it say nothing and just be theoretically 24 7. if it's more of a deterrent than a I don't know right I like the idea of a short-term parking I don't like it I think [17:43] Eric Crocker: that solves maybe the issue, one issue. Nothing is ever going to 100% eliminate it, and I've you know I've tried to steer the clients into I'm you know at least embracing that short of like getting an electronic arm, which is going to cost them a hundred thousand dollars, which it's no longer practical to do. It also break all the time. Yeah, well yeah, I can only imagine if you know the day after it breaks after we fight for that kind of arm and then they're like, it's not even working, so that would be frustrating, but yeah, the deterrent effect, like you know there are people that'll abide by it, then there's people that won't. [18:21] Alton Buzzell: and I wonder how much of an issue is that part of Main Street I do you have a sense of how many [18:31] Speaker I (unidentified): Times like in a day or a week, you've got DoorDash people in your parking lot, or is it the DoorDash people parking, or clients trying to find a place to park? [18:44] Eric Crocker: Well, to answer your last question, behind my clients' building they have a huge lot, yes, it's so they never, they never have a hard time, if you're referring to clients like my clients, like the clients and I. [19:00] Speaker I (unidentified): Mean, because I think we talked about this at our last meeting, if I recall correct, and so one of the concerns was eliminating Main Street parking to put it to 15-minute parking is going to take away very valuable space, especially during a busy daytime, and then I mean I leave here at night, and it Bangor is always full when I go by. And then we were going to look at other parking areas to see what could be shared, like is your parking area full all the time. Is it possible that the restaurant can be renting out some space from you? If there's room, do you in fact know, is it abuses that happen every hour on the hour all day long, or are there one or two Door Dash people during noon time, and then I mean when are they heavy hours, because again the concern is taking away parking on Main Street, which is at a premium for those of you that try to park for 15-minute parking, my clients would give. [20:09] Eric Crocker: You a more precise answer, it from my experience of it, since I've been involved, it seems like there's just waves of it, and I can't seem to recognize like what the pattern is, it probably is near dinnertime, and it is probably more on weekends, just when people go out to restaurants, because that's when the activity is, but you know with DoorDash people can eat from home, and they're more likely to do it, as far as renting the spaces, that idea has been thrown out there, and my clients have been very. Reluctant because they're worried about liability, and that's, that's been the number one reason for it, and they, I, they have that big lot, I know that they have that big lot, I know it's huge, and I, they do have business. They have the dance school, and they have the boarding house, which the boarding house, there was a time where it wasn't running, and then they're trying to get it back up and running. And then they have the bar, which are only running nights, on nights on certain during the weekends. So they've been trying to hold off on that parking lot. I know that 's a valuable asset, but they haven't been willing to rent it up to this point in time mainly because of liability issues as far as the pattern i don't think it's all the time like steady but i think it does it does get more constant sometimes than others [21:37] Joseph Leonard: Best hands right, and I actually do want to add that it's actually important to also consider, to carry off of your point, is what effects this change would have on entities that are not at this table for discussion as well that do utilize those spaces. And so, because I don't really see any of the changing options to really remedy your client's situation, I just, I am hesitant to recommend any changes as is right now, just because I don't really see of benefiting your clients, and I also don't know how it would affect the other citizens as well. I, but that's just my analysis, please feel free to speak your own minds, but I wish it we could figure out some way to actually help your clients, but between commercial, which just doesn't seem viable and the 15-minute parking, it just sounds to me that neither of those options is really going to, I think, change anything. [22:54] Eric Crocker: Is there like, see I'm still relatively new at this process, is there like a list of different designations that is accessible that we can, you know, point to and say this would be the best one? Because I just, you know, I just said commercial, but I didn't know that you needed a commercial plate for that. I just figured. [23:17] Kelsi Gabrielle Hobbs: Maybe one of these people knows where we have our list of parking designation. [23:25] Speaker G (unidentified): It's commercial loading down by the great square, right, you know that's right, yeah, but that's, I mean, typically you do a commercial loading space because there's nowhere else for them to load on their property, like a Pickering Square, that makes sense, but up here, I mean, they can go into their, that parking lot, I mean, that is theirs, yeah, you know, so you know that, so it's not like they don't have anywhere to go if they do have a parking lot. [24:04] Speaker I (unidentified): Yeah, in worst case they can and text and go, okay, I'm out front, bring it to me, right, I mean, some people do that when the Door Dash guy arrives. I have a hard time giving up two spaces on Main Street, I really do, and frankly, the Hopeful House is sitting on really prime real estate, and maybe there's a way that we can look at what that liability means. I have no idea, I'm not a lawyer, I don't work for the City of Angora, but I know that on Franklin Street, when we had that 15 minute for the space in front of Benjamin's that created such a boondoggle on Franklin Street and then that finally it was we put it up there for the pandemic and then we had another one in front of where Tassaro's used to be. Those are gone which is freed up the ability to park and it allows people to move get through do their business and get out as opposed to now what I'm going to do going to drive around trying to [25:08] Eric Crocker: find a place to play it's a nightmare. You mentioned that we're all dealing with the Door Dash problem. Has the city in other contexts seen this come up arise where I mean I'm just curious if anyone else has tried to troubleshoot this dilemma because before it used to be a delivery driver that was an employee of the restaurant and then there was a little bit more of an accountability there but one of the elements of the dispute is that look it's not us not us and [25:42] Alton Buzzell: you know I'm just curious I do know that like New Moon excuse me they do a lot of different fashion yeah their own deliveries but they're they're in and out and they find it so quick [25:54] Speaker I (unidentified): they find a space they just pull right up sometimes even on the road in out done we're here [26:01] Speaker E (unidentified): boom gone they're there for maybe two minutes sometimes they're not [26:12] Eric Crocker: is there any statistics on how often those folks get ticketed or anything like that I mean I guess it's hard to tell because you know yeah I [26:21] Speaker I (unidentified): think if you're really adamant I would like to see more data on what the situation really is what because you made the statement that they're sitting in their windows watching this yeah so somewhere somebody has put down done the tickers how many times a day or a week or a month or whatever this happens so I think I think you guys need to need to show some data in order I think for us for me anyway to have a more thorough discussion about what the needs really are for that space and anecdotally you [26:57] Alton Buzzell: know yes there are Door Dashes there are Uber Eats and all these things but it's not like there are 6 000 of them it's not New York City right and to your point I would be really hesitant to take up two prime spots on Main Street as somebody who dines in Main Street is constantly doing the loop trying to find a spot to park in to lose two for something that happens realistically you know in our in our facility you know we maybe get a dozen a day at most and that's like a top day it's just not a constant thing so to lose two spots or even just one spot for something that's it's probably not truly an issue, that would bother me. Sounds like it's a signage and directional thing more than a parking issue. Sounds like the parking is there, it's just getting people to use the correct parking. [27:53] Eric Crocker: Yeah, their spot is a little, it depends on their, the use on the other side of the building seems to be changing. It used to be the Queen City Cinema Club, then it was Cool Girl, which moved down further away on Main Street. And now I don't know if it's, well, actually it might have something now, I can't remember, but it is, I actually went to Queen City Cinema Club and it does get pretty tight there, I mean, but again, I, that goes to your point, data, it's all anecdotal, so I could definitely impress them, and then, you know, we could just, when we come back, you know, if we can come back, we'll get you some more information, but I heard this meeting was happening, I heard that someone from Anti-9 reached out to set this up, I Wish you were here because I'd like to hear her perspective on it too, just because I think we are on the same team with it, because it is, it seems like it's a problem between the two of them. [28:46] Joseph Leonard: Okay, I think until we get more data, I don't, I don't think I can recommend any action at this point, and I think it's unanimous on the committee, so unless there's anything else anyone wants to add, staff, is there anything that you'd like to add? Okay, thank you for your information, and the committee will look forward to some data in the future. So with that, let's, let's get involved [29:23] Justin Delacruz: with the parking study. Okay, so we wanted to bring this back in front of the committee because I think we do have some newer members, just to familiarize people with it, and Anne was more involved with this than me, but I'm speaking for both of you right now. [29:39] Eric Crocker: But you can have this seat if that helps. Thank you for hearing me out. I'll thank you for coming. Hopefully give them some more data for you, but thank you again. Have a good night everyone. [29:52] Justin Delacruz: So honestly, I'm just going to read this summary from Park here. Park, you also can jump in if you have anything to add, but just summarizing what the parking study found, basically overall it actually found a surplus of parking downtown when you consider all the zones, but what's available versus the demand of parking, it did find that particular zones, particularly those areas around Central Street, you know, and those areas do have a high demand, but Park did mention in this summary here that the consultants didn't, I guess, incorporate Abbott Square and the Parking garage when they looked at the parking deficit in Zone 1, which was that central area. So, again, just going back to the overall statistic of having a parking surplus versus not having a deficit. And then also, Park mentioned that there are changing demographics downtown, which do impact parking usage. So for example, the Franklin Street condominiums used to be an office building, so they have a lot more parking demand now that it's residential. They can accommodate all their parking on site, so there's much less parking demand at Abbott Square. And also, there's also a lot of available monthly space throughout downtown, and the one that gets the greatest usage is the parking deck on Columbia Street. And let's see, Park, feel free to jump in anytime. [31:31] Alton Buzzell: I can, yeah, I can. Well, let's step back, and I think that perhaps the most pertinent, well, I'll step back even further and say I've been parking part of these parking paintings for 25 years. And we've seen quite an evolution. When I first came down here, Main Street, the ground level had some stores. The upstairs were big, and that's how long fire I go back and honestly, and I'm told he did this at hand when we had that many vacancies. There were more complaints about parking on these parking committees, and there are honestly, and that's that's the truth. And the business owners that were downtown at that time, their biggest focus was we're not succeeding because we don't have enough parking. Yet we had all the parking control we have today except for the second, I mean the sixth level of parking branch. And so, and we also back in 2019, we did an occupancy on street occupancy when we took over the well Republic, my former employer, but I stay here, my company's changing, but we did a utilization of on-street parking downtown. We handed out the committee, I Pull that up, because at that time we went through every street that we do parking enforcement, and the industry standard for parking for turnover rates is like having like 85 occupancy. That's where your where your sweet spot is. If you have more than that, it's going to be way too quality. If you have less than that, and something's not right, why aren't you? And I was surprised, actually, to find that every street downtown was 85 or lower, in some streets really low, I mean, so that there were so many Vacant spaces now, of course you don't have that space in front of the store I want to go to, or the restaurant I want, or the office I want to go to. Yes, it might be a block away, and I know, I mean, I've worked down here for this long, and so I know when you come down here at night, and you know you're not going to get the space in front of Nocturne unless you're, you happen to be really lucky, or probably see, but you know, it's just, it's, it's the capacity is there, and I think the biggest part of my Summary was the utilization report, which I, which I gave you. This is something we use internally that shows all the monthly parking that we sell, and I've updated a little bit for December, but it's not the same, but according to this, and this, these are real, these are real numbers, that is actually how many apartments we actually sell based on availability, and we still have 33 percent of our parking is still available right now today on these lots. That doesn't, that's not on street, that's just off Street. Back in 2016, in 2016 it was only 25%, just as a, just as a concept, and that goes back to what I was trying to summarize. And that is that as these buildings redevelop, a lot of them are becoming residences or condos, and so forth, and upstairs are becoming partners. Those used to be businesses and way back, and a lot of them were office buildings like the Bangor Savings Bank on Franklin Street. When that was there, Abbott Square was full. You had a waiting list for in the Abbott Square, that was three or four years to get into the monthly parking. Now you, anybody wants to come up and get in there. The one thing that we have done over the years is price point different lots to incentivize people to go, you know, if you can walk, you can get a lot for 33 a month, so a dollar a day, if you don't mind walking. Now if meeting right beside your business means a lot, then it's to cost you more money Like in Columbia Street, on the deck, which is one that has the most part, most waiting list right now. So again, I, everything within that study, it jives with everything that I've seen on a daily basis, of what my parking enforcement people see on a daily basis. The only thing that I, you know, that their zones are random, I mean, there's, there's no, they just picked zones based on parameters, so it put one of the zones, like so on one, which is definitely the highest concentration, but it did not include Pickering Square and Abbott Square, which are your parking source for Main Street, basically. That was Pickering Square. That was before me, but that was built in order to accommodate basically all of downtown. And you know, I've, I used to use the illustration of, you know, you can walk from any floor to Pickering Square to here, and it's only seven minutes, and that's pretty good for a downtown. So anyways, that's my, that's from a parking operator, that's my conceptual idea. And yes, there are always tweaks. And we just heard one, you know, about downtown, and there's been a lot of discussions. We tweaked the time zones from 60 minutes to 90 minutes and tried to help. Sometimes that has the reverse effect. But what I was surprised about too was that there was always this concern of employees taking up a lot of parking downtown, and that's not as big as issue as it used to be with the parking enforcement vehicle and the barnacle, which I'm sure you've all heard about. That's how that, and it wasn't again, and. I've made this clear to the media reports and to anybody here at city hall, that's not about collecting revenue, that's about putting into action what you folks decide as the parking, you know, if this is 90 minutes, it's supposed to be 90 minutes, and you want that space to turn over every nine minutes. That's the idea there. And some people don't do it. And so I'm getting, I've gone way on, but you know. [37:21] Joseph Leonard: I actually very much appreciated that personal professional annotation regarding just how parking has evolved over your time. It's actually kind of amazing to hear that demographic that more people living in downtown, there's fewer complaints. And I don't know exactly how that translates economically other than some sort of like saying, like, if you build it, they will come. And but I that we are in the very painful growing stages of the developing city. We are obviously supporting a larger demographic than just Bangor. And I think most people that actually live in Bangor, my guess is over the years, they've just gotten so used to parking as is, that's just become part of the culture. And it wouldn't shock me if a lot of the complaints generally come from people that mostly visit Bangor as opposed to living here. So, and they're valid complaints. I don't mean to say that they're any less relevant than actual citizens of Bangor, but it just goes to show that we are going to continue to have these issues of growth, no matter what. And even if we solve even the 2 parking spot discussion previously, there's going to be 16 more parking spots that are going to be problematic for citizens. So thank you so much for that. I'll open up to discussion. Does anyone have any questions or annotations they'd like to bring up? [39:09] Justin Delacruz: Well, I just wanted to say and I'm kind of combining this with the other business here, but just kind of in conjunction with what you said. And this parking study we actually wanted to propose having a public meeting. So people kind of hear their parking concerns and issues that they're having downtown, and that in conjunction with that on this report, we can work towards business solutions. So we were looking at having a public meeting on February 23rd at 5 30 in the library, but we wanted to get you all speak back on if that works for you. [39:38] Eric Crocker: And what you think of that in general. So what was the date again? February 23rd at 5 30. [39:50] Speaker E (unidentified): The day of the week is that monthly day well [39:55] Justin Delacruz: No I take my students to Boston so yeah we might actually need to revise the date on that because I forgot that's going to be a council meeting so yeah [40:04] Joseph Leonard: That will actually start the other conversation that we need to have at the end of the meeting so anyway, sorry to interrupt. [40:14] Justin Delacruz: We can work on scheduling, but just wanted to make sure you all were good with that. [40:20] Alton Buzzell: I mean, the 26th, because it's a Thursday, we meet on Thursday with that, just so there's some [40:27] Justin Delacruz: We'll have to make sure there's no night meetings that night, [40:30] Speaker E (unidentified): But we can do that. [40:31] Alton Buzzell: You can tell Ben to move them. OK. [40:38] Joseph Leonard: Any other Just kidding. Yeah,. Oh, no, I took you very seriously. Any other comments or questions for staff okay so vpi recommendations [40:56] Justin Delacruz: So I wanted to go over this study as well. I'm actually gonna drive you on the computer. We are gonna work on putting this on the city's website under city plans [Speaker E (unidentified): So if] You're not familiar with what this is, basically how this started was the DOT was proposing this program called Village Partnership Initiative, called DPI for short, as basically a way to kind of revitalize downtowns and core areas of different towns and cities in the state. And it was supposed to be in conjunction with this federal funding that was available at the time called the Raise Grant. And so they were helping us, you know, come up with these recommendations to improve the safety of downtown for walking, biking, and driving, you know, increase accessibility, things like that, traffic calming. And the idea was that we would take these recommendations, then DOT would help us apply for that federal funding to do those things. Unfortunately, at this time that federal funding isn't there right now, but the hope is that in the future if it will be there again. So we wanted to just go over, you know, all these recommendations with you. I believe council did officially adopt some of the recommendations from this. I think it was last year. Yeah, we did last year. Yeah, February. So I'll just go over the show briefly and then talk about where we go from here. But there were actually a set of the three, or actually they did, it was three different types of recommendations, right So one was roundabouts, and then I think roundabouts were mixed, and the council voted in favor of just doing two-way traffic and kind of modifying the intersection. But it's a very lengthy study, and you can kind of go through and look at the background and the public engagement that was involved. There was extensive public engagement. Backs, the Bangor Area Comprehensive Transportation System helped a lot with that. They went to different public meetings and workshops and things like that to get people's feedback, and let me just try to find some general [Speaker E (unidentified): recommendations here. There's] extensive recommendations on providing bike lanes, especially buffered bike lanes, and the idea is to have those bike lanes, it's not showing it here, but to have the bike lane on the interior and then have parallel parking and then have the travel lane, and you would have a buffer ideally between the bike lane and parked cars to protect the bicyclists from being doored by parked cars. There were a lot of recommended changes to intersections to kind of narrow them in places to really help pedestrians be safer when they're crossing those crosswalks, and then also reconfiguring some of the parking to be parallel in some places versus just a diagonal right now, especially along Harlow Street, because like it is a safety issue as it seems now. I know you're involved with this. Are there particular like major things that I'm kind [44:17] Speaker G (unidentified): of missing well there's a lot of i mean it was one of those projects that started out as a streetscape and infrastructure utilities upgrade and then kind of grew to you know let's look and see how we're using these downtown intersections and street scape improvements and pedestrian and bike improvements so yeah i think that's the big change is making hopefully [44:48] Justin Delacruz: it's more safe for pedestrians and bicycles. Yeah, and increasing like kind of a bump outs here to make traffic slow down a little bit and make it safer for pedestrians, right? And that in terms [44:59] Speaker G (unidentified): widens of sidewalks, which gives a little bit more of a view. [45:05] Justin Delacruz: I think this was, and I write this was one of the major overall changes here with the two-way channel. So obviously because there's not federal funding, some of these, we can't really make these permanent really big changes. But something that we were thinking about was maybe we could just look at restriping just to kind of test this system out, this new traffic flow, and reconfigure parking and everything just to see how it goes. And so we talked with engineering about that, and we think it would be possible. So just kind of wanted to get people's thoughts, you know, before [45:47] Speaker E (unidentified): we kind of progress with that. 's wondering [45:54] Speaker I (unidentified): Can you just say, tell us what the streets are? Because I remember looking at the different proposals. [46:01] Justin Delacruz: Yeah, so this is Central Street, Harlow, State, and. [46:10] Speaker I (unidentified): So right now, the proposed roundabouts are gone, and you're just going to stay with the lights. And then improve the pedestrian crossing signs, because right now, many of those don't. [46:23] Speaker E (unidentified): They're only one direction. [46:25] Speaker I (unidentified): They don't go this direction. Direction they go one on the, do you know that like the one on Harlow Street to come over to the to here, yeah, doesn't exist. There's no way to push a button to get a light, okay, a walkway, yeah, some of [46:40] Justin Delacruz: those changes might be a little more long term. Yeah, but we were just thinking like painting bike lanes and painting parking the way it's configured here in the recommendations, those [46:53] Speaker I (unidentified): those kinds of changes, so similar on what you have on the upper is that state at the top of State Street. [46:59] Justin Delacruz: You've got that big backlight already. Yeah, but it in this case it would be next to the sidewalk, and then you have the parking. [47:07] Alton Buzzell: Yeah. Do you have an idea of how many parking spaces do you lose? Yeah. [47:14] Justin Delacruz: I think you just said five. Is that it? [47:16] Alton Buzzell: Not really. Yeah. Is that in this packet? [47:22] Justin Delacruz: That number? Yeah. Yes, it is. [47:24] Alton Buzzell: That's my only hesitation to comment is I'm literally just seeing this for the first time, so it's hard for me to give you a null number. [47:31] Speaker G (unidentified): You can put this in the next packet. [47:32] Alton Buzzell: it or give us a or link you said you guys were working to put it on so yeah that'd be awesome because i feel like i'd be more knowledgeable and we can be meaningful yeah so it was my intent [47:44] Justin Delacruz: after we have this public meeting we would have another meeting with you all to talk about the public meeting but then we can also talk about this one too [47:53] Joseph Leonard: i can only speak for myself but i, of course, am completely game for testing new traffic, especially if it means beating some of our environmental traffic goals. So it's just part of the overall strategy. So we have to start somewhere. Of course, we're fine with experiments. Great. I'm shocked. Any other thoughts or questions on this matter? [48:25] Justin Delacruz: No? No, so we'll send this to you all just directly, so you have it easily. [48:31] Speaker E (unidentified): I think it's great. Okay, do [48:39] Joseph Leonard: we do? Do we want to continue again with that public meeting, or just kind of hash that out? [48:43] Justin Delacruz: I think we'll have the public meeting just so we can make sure everybody's voices are heard. So we'll Sarah work on the scheduling with everybody. [48:51] Joseph Leonard: make sure that's finished okay any final thoughts before we move on to the next last minute added discussion no okay so this committee is very unique in the city in that it's the only volunteer committee that has a counselor that is the chair of the committee and this has posed problems in the past simply because if accounts if the council chair of the committee is unable to make it as it has happened in the past then assuming the ordinance hasn't changed since then that the committee cannot actually continue with that meeting and sometimes like regardless if it's because of scheduling issues or last minute mess ups or something like that 's still not ideal for your committee, which is a fairly important one. And so it is important that we have these regularly scheduled meetings, because there was a time where, when I was on this committee before I was a counselor. We didn't need for almost 2 years, and that just can't happen again. And so what I obviously I would like this committee to recommend and wardens change so that we no longer require a counselor to be chair. I would love to continue to be a liaison and provide the support that I can. But I think it's actually immensely important to make sure that a volunteer chair has control of this committee, because I personally, if I had biases, can easily bring them in to here and manipulate it. So that by the time it gets the Council that there's already so many different types of transparency issues. And so that's actually my biggest concern. So I think for the future of this committee, I would very much like to see that ordinance change, so that one of you can take on the mantle responsibility. And also that the other thing, too, and this is additional Council is also changing the way that we look at all committees. So we're trying to make sure that all committees have a council liaison as well. And I from the discussions that we've had a council we're still gonna have more of these discussions. I think that's with the exception of the ethics committee that's gonna be a uniform process overall, and the and that won't be an exception for this committee. So I would like to suggest that this committee go forward with this recommendation. Otherwise I am just gonna recommend this at Council to change. So I really appreciate you guys did it as opposed to me having to start this with a council discussion. But please feel free to discuss this right now. [52:08] Alton Buzzell: If you so choose, is the ordinance that the chairperson of the committee has to be, or is it that the chairperson has to be here to hold the meeting? [52:20] Joseph Leonard: I believe that without knowing the ordinance in my head, it and I believe it's both, that it has to be a council chair and the council chair has to be here. I could be wrong about that, but just knowing I was on the committee in previous years. I remember one incident where it was Counselor Schaefer at the time. I don't know if she had a family emergency or some sort of a hiccup, but she wasn't able to attend the meeting, but we were all gathered there. But the meeting was not capable to move on, because we required that counselor to actually be the chair of that committee. In my recommended version, if the chair didn't show up, one of you could basically make a motion to have a either the vice chair, if there is a vice chair elected, or another committee person to take on the roles and responsibilities of the chair for that meeting, which is standard for every single other committee that we have, including athletes. [53:29] Speaker G (unidentified): Yeah. So some of them are city councilor just the chair. So there isn't like a vice chair in other words, like other committees. We often will elect a vice chair. [53:49] Alton Buzzell: So what is the proposed language change? Just that the committee would have a volunteer chair. [53:56] Speaker G (unidentified): That would be just that you would elect a chair once a year just like other committees usually once a year there's election of officers and it would be a chair and a vice chair that you would [54:07] Alton Buzzell: Choose as a group and that language isn't like the other committee yeah does [54:20] Joseph Leonard: Anyone have any I try to be as thorough with that as much as possible does any is there any confusion about this I want to make sure it's very crystal clear for all of you because this is a pretty big decision to make which I would argue is in your favor but [54:37] Alton Buzzell: Depends on how much responsibility we want [54:41] Eric Crocker: Was there a reason for the council of chairs [54:44] Joseph Leonard: Yeah that's a good question though that there are a lot of things that have been have been staples in the city for a long period of time, and the original decision is sometimes a funny origin, or sometimes it does come from like a very relevant position. But I can't answer that question I have no concerns with it. I mean I would like to I mean should we have a proposal of motion that we put this forward is would staff require that door. [55:33] Speaker G (unidentified): No, I mean I we can prepare language for the groups review at the next meeting. Okay, yeah, because we'll just use standard language from other committees, and but you'll see it before it goes forward. [55:47] Joseph Leonard: Okay. Yeah. Is everyone okay with that? Perfect. That was the only other additional business I had. Did any other committee member have any additional things they want to add? Staff, anything you'd like to add? [56:05] Speaker G (unidentified): You want to set the next meeting? Oh, yes. I know that's always tough to track too. I mean, is Thursday night a good evening for people? [56:19] Alton Buzzell: Okay, so that's great. I can't speak for we'll [56:24] Justin Delacruz: Look at March since the public meeting will be sure as [56:42] Joseph Leonard: Long as it's after 2 30 Pma. Those days are good for me. [56:50] Justin Delacruz: Well, I don't know I think mainly we just wanted to follow up on the public meeting. So it would be that and the tagline. [56:59] Alton Buzzell: I thought what would those dates? I apologize. [57:02] Joseph Leonard: This is the fifth and nineteenth and the twenty-second, twenty-six. [57:06] Justin Delacruz: Thank you. What were you asking if they wanted to consider doing that? [57:10] Speaker E (unidentified): Yeah, I thought you were closing up. I think that 's something that yeah, it [57:26] Speaker G (unidentified): Would be good to set like the third Thursday, or whatever it is, so that way and if there isn't an agenda items we can always you know cancel the meeting yeah. [57:36] Alton Buzzell: But just to have it set so first Thursdays are really hard I just would have a conflicting board meeting that happens the first Thursday of every month but any other Thursday works. [57:50] Speaker G (unidentified): So probably the third Thursday because the second Thursday won't be HBC so. [57:55] Justin Delacruz: Now or the 19th is there a time that works best for everyone does. [58:04] Speaker E (unidentified): This time work at 530 for people okay oh. [58:22] Speaker I (unidentified): No so how do agenda items come on to the to the. [58:29] Speaker G (unidentified): Table here the right now so like if anybody has anything that you want on the agenda we set the agenda the week before because the packets go out the week before okay. [58:44] Speaker I (unidentified): Yeah okay and then if we have complaints or things I mean if we have things that we want to talk about with some of the parking concerns that yeah like I observed my clients observed and when I was a juror boy there were a whole lot of concerns from the jurors and it seems like some of the things are pretty simple fixes that we could address here but it when we say that we're going to talk we're going to piece out and discuss each of the zones for parking it gets it doesn't happen so I just. Wanted to know what our job is are we just are we just talking about agenda items that you bring forward and staff or do we bring things there are other places where we can discuss some of the things that we could might be simple things that could be addressed minimum make parking easier yeah absolutely I mean. [59:42] Speaker G (unidentified): It's an advisory committee to the City Council so we will bring things that people have requested changes you know like the Main Street thing because that ultimately has to go to city council so you know on that one ultimately you'll make a recommendation to city council for them to decide but if there are things that you want to discuss I just as a request to you know get it on the agenda in advance just send us an email not just to say hey you know next week's agenda can you put this on there. For a discussion. [1:00:22] Justin Delacruz: It'd be great to air those concerns too at either the public meeting or our follow-up meeting in March, you know, to talk about all that because that's what we want to hear. Right. So yeah. [1:00:31] Joseph Leonard: But you are all chosen to represent not just your opinions on things, but also those discussions that you feel are necessary to bring forward. Forward. So just what Anne said, please bring forward those discussions as you see fit. Even if you are the minority person who wants to have that discussion, it's still hyper relevant for you to bring your perspective. So thank you for that question. [1:01:05] Speaker G (unidentified): So we have some packets the Thursday before, so if you could try to get it in like the Wednesday before, that way we make sure it goes right into the agenda. [1:01:18] Justin Delacruz: Okay, so just to follow up, it sounded like somebody was not good with 530 now for 18, is that right? [1:01:26] Speaker I (unidentified): I mean, I have classes in private clients, so in order for me to do that, I can do that with regularity. I just need to move people around. Okay, all right. So the frequency of that is difficult, so I would need to check with people to see every 30. [1:01:42] Justin Delacruz: Or gosh, but you're good with the 19th, March 19th at 5 30 p.m. as of now, and it seems like the 26th we don't have any city night meetings, so I think we probably can't do that for the public meeting. Okay, great, we [1:02:16] Speaker E (unidentified): May do that at 6 p.m. just to get you kind of time to get off work and things like that. Okay. [1:02:27] Alton Buzzell: And you said the plan will be for that to be at the library. Yeah, okay, thank you. Okay. [1:02:41] Joseph Leonard: Any other final thoughts? Seeing none, it is 6 32 and I think I will call it for this meeting this evening. Thank you so much for everyone for tuning in. Stay tuned for the 26th of February at the library. We'll have a fun discussion. Have a good night, everybody.