Bangor council hears water rate case, airport crash update

[0:05] Susan Hawes: Good evening, welcome to the City Council workshop. This is an odd evening for us, it's a Wednesday, but due to the storm on Monday we have to move everything to tonight around. We have, let's see, five items, three items, and then we'll have two executive sessions. We will announce those at the time, but first up we have all around the table, we've got Councillor Fish, Councillor Deane, Councillor Carson, Councillor Phillum, Councillor Beck, Councillor Mallar, and I'm Councillor Hawes. We will be joined a few minutes late by Councillor Leonard. He has called, he will be here, so our first speaker is from the Bangor Water District. Chuck Harris. Chuck Harris. That wasn't prompted [1:00] Speaker B (unidentified): at all, was it? No,. [1:03] Susan Hawes: I thought you were already going to be at the table. No, I was [1:06] Speaker C (unidentified): sitting in what I was asked. So there you go. Well, thanks. Thanks for having me this evening. I kind of have this presentation split up into two parts. The first is about the rate pace coming up, and the second is kind of a 2025 update, department stuff that we got into. So going with the district and looking at what was accomplished in 2025. [1:32] Susan Hawes: Mr. Harrison, do you prefer questions at the end? Or as they [1:36] Speaker C (unidentified): come up? I would say it as they come up that way they can. [Speaker D (unidentified): All right, so] we can go to the next slide, please. please. So in looking at the rate case study that we have to do, we kind of have to ask why we need that rate case. And on the screen here, we've got just some overall things. So inflationary costs of things are just costing more, increase in energy costs are a lot of our big issues that we're looking at is cybersecurity, being a water district, making sure that no one can get into the system and do some of the crazy stuff that's been happening around the nation, I've been in the news quite a lot, those cyber attacks, making sure we're safe, also, you know, cola increases, health insurance is always going up, and last is the capital improvements, so when we do have a capital fund that is based off of our rates, so we need more capital funds to fix stuff in the road. Next slide please. So we're going to take a minute and look at the impacts to our customers, because we all know that when we raise rates there's a, there's impact to our customers, so if we can go the next slide, so the increase that we are have submitted to the PUC is a 10.5 increase, so the monthly water would go up 20 to 23.98, roughly, pennies are kind of rounded there, so the overall quarter we would be Going up six dollars and 84 cents per quarter for our minimum bill user to 71 and 95 cents. We'll go to the next slide, please. So I wanted to kind of break that down and what that actually looks like. So I did some quick searches to figure out what a gallon of water costs, what you pay for a 16.9 ounce bottle of water from the store, and what we actually give it to the customers for on that rate. So a gallon of water, $1.26, a 16.9 ounce bottle of water, $1.16 for that same gallon of water, 0.0106 cents for that gallon of water. Next slide, please. So when we look at the minimum, which is 70% of our customers, roughly, it's 80 cents a day for 75 gallons of water. So when you overall look at that, if you would do the same amount of water that you're purchasing interesting from the store for a dollar 26 you'd end up paying 94.50 for the same amount of water that our customers get per 80 cents for that same 75 gallons worth of water every single day. Next slide, please. And also another part of a rate increase is the public fire protection, and as you can see that's the hydrants. We've got 1 105 hydrants in the district, in Bangor alone 998 hydrants. Next slide. Please, can I ask a question there? Yes, on the hydrants. [5:04] Wayne Mallar: I guess I'm confused as to who's in the Bangor water district. Clarify that for me. So we've got [5:12] Speaker C (unidentified): residents at Clifton, Eddington, Hamden, Herman, Warrington. We all have residents that are supplied from us in those districts, and the overall count on the hydrants again one 1,105, majority of Bangor. So Clifton as we see has one, Eddington 32, Hamden eight, Herman. [5:36] Wayne Mallar: So Brewer is not affiliated with this group. [5:39] Speaker C (unidentified): Correct. We don't want to be sure. Thank you. So overall, when we're looking at the budget for the hydrants, we did our budget based off of 2024 pumping numbers for the amount of gallons. 25 was a very dry year. So that means more people were using more water. So we wanted to have a realistic number. So as you can see up there, it kind of looks a little weird. I just but I put based off of 2024. So the public fire basically will increase $131,464, which is the 10 and a half percent. It is worth noting that the PUC allows us to charge up to 30% of our total operating revenue on the hydrants on the private side. And right now we're at 14.7, or the public side, I'm sorry, we're at 14.7% of our overall rates are going to. So less than half of what the PUC allows us to charge is what we're actually charging Vanguard and all the other departments that we serve water to. So a little breakdown there, you know, overall we talked about the current charge. Well, I'll, I'll talk about it now, 1,340,000 and change, the proposed 1,482 and change. So the overall increased 142,213, which if we look at that by quarter, increases by 35,500. That's with that 10 and a half percent increase. Any questions so far? All right, next slide, please. [Speaker D (unidentified): So,] in summary, you know, in the 2026 budget, our overall revenue requirements of $10,873,000 and change, which we needed an additional $5,4141,235, which takes the rate to 10.5%. And if approved the rate will take effect on April 1st of 2026. [8:26] Carolyn Fish: Question on the ten and a half percent increase, do you have a breakdown of where that's going, how much for improvements, how [8:33] Speaker D (unidentified): much for salaries, how much for raises, things like that? We have a breakdown of exactly what [8:41] Speaker C (unidentified): we submitted to the PUC for how the money from the is going to come in, but not a breakdown on salaries and all that stuff. So I, we don't, don't have that. Any more questions on that? Keep [9:03] Wayne Mallar: going here a little bit. I'll ask one question because I'm new to the board and I don't understand everything that's going on. What's your, what's the affiliation between the water district and the city of Bangor? [9:18] Speaker C (unidentified): Pretty much the city of Bangor appoints our trustees, and we are a quasi-municipality on our own. [9:28] Wayne Mallar: Okay, so then that brings up a question. You just changed your software at the water department. [Speaker C (unidentified): Our billing software?] That the city used the data to provide sewer billing. Why did you not make sure that would meld in with the city's program when you went ahead and went online with it? We were told the file would be the same, so the who [9:56] Speaker C (unidentified): told you? Well, when we talked to Muni Link, we don't, the software isn't the issue. It was a file that we gave to the city, so it's just a file that has in this cell it's the address, in this cell it's whatever pertinent information, and that's what actually changed. When we were dealing with MuniLink, we had some conversations dealing with the sewer department to make sure that was an easy transition, and it turned out not to be. And then there was some issues with the city's billing software where they couldn't take that file in and bill like they were. So who picked up the cost? [10:40] Wayne Mallar: The extra cost, I'm just concerned that you're a quasi portion of the city and you're buying software and you don't really know if it's going to work with what the city already has. It's a duplication of effort when we have to go back out after you bought this new software and change what the city's doing. I'm just concerned as to does one hand know what the other hand's doing. We tried to [11:05] Speaker C (unidentified): communicate that. I mean, even the software that we had before wasn't the same software that the [11:11] Wayne Mallar: city uses. I know it's not the same, but it worked. It was, this didn't work, the file did not work, but that transfer over. So someone has to assume responsibility for not having the file work. Are you saying it was the people that furnished you with the software? We were told that the file [11:29] Speaker C (unidentified): that we were going to give the sewer to bill from would be the same. We had meetings to make sure that the city could take that file and use it. We had a meeting, we gave the file on a test batch that we thought worked, and then when it was go time of getting from the old software to the new software and we did [11:55] Wayne Mallar: our first billing cycle, that's where it did not work. So you did run a test on it? Well, we ran a [12:01] Speaker C (unidentified): test to make sure the file was could be uploaded to you guys and it did not work as well as [12:10] Wayne Mallar: what we were told it would. So you know, I hate to be a nitpicker, but who's paying for the extra work, the city, right, of getting that file? Yeah. Why? Because if we'd done it properly the first time around, the company furnishing the software had a responsibility to make sure it worked and they didn't. So why are we having to pay for their mistake? And I don't know if it was [12:37] Speaker C (unidentified): necessarily a mistake or the file in talking to the software it should have been a easier or fix than what everyone thought. I don't have all the answers for. I understand that, but what [12:53] Wayne Mallar: I'm trying to get at is someone has to assume responsibility. It's not your fault that it didn't work, it's not our fault that it didn't work, it's the person you bought the software from and they need to be responsible for correcting it. If in fact when you issued the RFP you were specific in that it said it had to blend in with our system, if you weren't then [13:15] Speaker C (unidentified): They're off the hook and we're responsible for giving the city a file for the billing. And I can't do anything on the city side to make sure that the on your software how that works. I can't do anything to make sure that works. We had meetings off office staff had meetings with office staff to make sure it was a smooth transition. So where did we fail? Well it was we gave the city a file and we that's how we gave the city the file. And then it was the city's going to take that data and be able to build off that single file that we gave you and they were able [14:02] Wayne Mallar: to on the test but not on the real time. Yeah I don't know if exactly if they if that test [14:07] Speaker C (unidentified): was perfect or not but we thought that everything was square when we gave that file over and then heard that, okay, there was a little trouble that ended up being a lot more. [14:21] Wayne Mallar: What was the cost of the change? [14:25] Speaker C (unidentified): Our software? Yes. I'd have to look back and see. [14:28] Wayne Mallar: Give me a guesstimate. [14:31] Speaker C (unidentified): I don't need I can't even tell you what that was. It was a fairly expensive swap. [14:37] Wayne Mallar: And we got what we paid for, even though it didn't work. [14:41] Speaker C (unidentified): On our side, the billing software [14:43] Wayne Mallar: you're on it doesn't matter your side you're providing it to the city with the anticipation the city has the anticipation that what you provide will work and it's your responsibility to make sure it does work and someone fell down somewhere along the line. Well I have no control over the software on your side I can't. But you had no back up a bit you've been doing this for years and it's always worked so you knew what the file requirements were. No we don't we have a file that we gave give to you that's what right but now you change the file parameters without telling us what was going on and we ended up suffering from it looks like you know I hate to go back to it but one hand doesn't know what the other hand's doing. I don't see any coordination in this and I think it was a waste of money on arpa to have to pick up the pieces is after it was over [15:41] Michael Beck: that's the fact well we're under some of your software let's talk about opportunity and if you don't know the answer maybe you could look into it but all the legal stuff behind the scenes as far as settlements account on the side could the transition of data go the other way could we send you a like the impervious service information can this software send out a single bill for all of it and then if the legal maneuvers were done behind the scenes in other where people would get one belt they Would have the water and their sewer on one and then you collect the money and then you would settle up with the city. Would the software be able to do [16:17] Speaker C (unidentified): that? No, because you, the city builds sewer off of how much water they used, right? But it could if we [16:25] Michael Beck: give the data of what our rates are. Can the software take that in or does it doesn't work with [16:32] Speaker C (unidentified): storm water or drainage at all? It can work with all of all the above. There are some places that do if they're the, if the water is part of the town or city, yes. Sure, and I only ask is to see [16:45] Michael Beck: if it was a possibility. Obviously there would be some changes and things and some more research to see if that can even be feasible, but just to know the possibility because that's a complaint I get a lot is getting the two bills and I know that you have no control of that. You can handle the water and we handle the sewer, but I'm just thinking in terms of there's a way to unify, you know, like that, but it's one less set of hands having to cash checks and all of that stuff and [17:07] Speaker C (unidentified): we're just waiting for a settlement to come through. Yeah, and I and I've been in a water district that did that and you have to, you know, at the end of the day the sewer says oh we collected this water payment and then the water says oh we collected this sewer payment and it gets very muddied when you have a smaller, it might be a little more feasible, but the size of Bangor with the different departments and districts would be tough. Appreciate the feedback, Council [17:36] Carolyn Fish: Fish, and then Council Carson. Council Carson might have to stand up shortly. I just wanted to chime in [17:43] Daniel Carson: on that. While you brought it up, we also build differently than like a, you know, at the city sewer is built to owners and the reason for that is because we have to be able to recoup that somehow, but the land water is different, like renters or other people occupying can actually be the person who is built, so that would be a huge difference. [18:09] Carolyn Fish: My question was is there a remedy being worked on now that includes assistance with the software company? Where are we with a solution to the issue? I'm, it was my [18:24] Speaker C (unidentified): understanding that the, they're working to get that file. I thought they worked it out to get the file that we give to them to be in their system. This isn't the first time that something like this has happened. I'm a little con, a little shocked that we're not there yet and I again I can't, if you want me to have a phone conversation with their, the sewers billing, I can definitely do [18:51] Speaker D (unidentified): That I think I was more concerned with the water filling issue discussed oh with the file. [18:59] Speaker C (unidentified): Right and it's it's the sewers how the sewer bills compared to how we build it's just different softwares and I'll you know if we're just given a file and one line in the file changed it seems like it should be somewhat a transition on their side and I'm I don't I don't recall the account. [19:21] Susan Faloon: Software that is used just a comment on the combining of the sewer and the water bill and full disclosure I work at the PUC and my thought and I'm not speaking officially on behalf of the PUC I'm just thinking that because the water district is regulated by the commission and the sewer district is not and sometimes there are billing disputes that could pose a problem too. [19:50] Speaker C (unidentified): I would say it'd be inadvisable but it's that's a good thought to bring up sure you. [Susan Hawes: Know.] Kind of what I wanted to chat about was the importance of this increase you know and it's our infrastructure you know our rates is how we fund our bond projects as well as that capital reserve account to do those projects that we that are small enough that we don't have to do a bond which we'll talk about a little bit later next slide please and we can really save some funds like this is a perfect example is out on Cumberland Street, that's the oldest water main we have, which is 127 year 129. Years old installed in 1898, and we're teaming up with the city, we're going to do all of that street. So I believe storm sewer, everything we can pay once we can have less disruption to all of the customers. And that's how with when we increase the budget we can include increase that capital reserve fund so we can pay for big jobs like that so that really helps when we're trying to look at improving our infrastructure we need to have more capital to be able to go and spend the money to replace those mains throughout the entire area because that's not the only place that we need to replace mains you know outside of that we've got so the Cumberland next slide please the Cumberland Street we have and. Nelson and Birch, we also have designed ready to go on Nelson and Birch. We are about 90 done with the engineering documents and we've applied for SRF funds. We are awarded did the funds pending federal budget getting approved and so we're on the list but we're first to get bumped should that not happen and then that's where we need to look for additional funds outside of using the capital that we have built in. So any questions on main on the rate case before we continue I've got about seven slides here of kind of going through 2025. So 2025 was a record for our main breaks. We had 73 main breaks in 2025. You know, we became very efficient with posting to Facebook and being able to notify our customers of outages through our billing software. I know it's a hard spot at this point, but our billing software does allow us to do specific targeted notifications. So a customer on exactly from, if we have to notify 500 to 600 State Street, we just type in those addresses and we can give a robo call, a text message or an email, depending on what the customer wants. We can tell them that, hey, there's a main break so we can reach out our customers. So that was a big benefit of going to the new software. Next slide, please. [23:32] Michael Beck: Good question on that. So before the software change, you would actually have to go and notify people or try to, or how would the notification work? [23:40] Speaker C (unidentified): Depending on the situation, if it's just a main break, generally people aren't going to hear the noise. You know, we'd put it on Facebook, but Facebook doesn't always, no, not everybody's on Facebook. So if we're that did take a lot of time to go knock on every door and say, hey, we've got an issue going on. And then we're you know, there's where we're doing knock on doors at 2 a.m. or let people sleep and get woken up. But we've seen a great rise in Facebook once we started posting those every single time they get. [24:13] Michael Beck: We have a main break. So it sounds like the software not only to notify more people, but also saves a lot of money. [24:20] Speaker C (unidentified): Yeah, manpower running around, yeah. So we did have quite a few valves that got renewed this year, and those are some of the valves that don't work well or at all. And some of them were strategic for areas where we couldn't shut down air a big area, so we made those a bunch, made that area smaller so that we can, you know, provide that level of support to doesn't have to be such a big shutdown. Next slide, please. So valve box renewals, we did 167 valve box renewals. So as they're paving in the streets, or if we get, try to get on a valve, then if we know we can't get on that valve because the valve box is bent or full, we'll go ahead and replace that valve box as we go. This slide here is showing hydrant replacements. I'm sorry, I should have worn glasses this morning, this evening. Hydrants, we replaced 17 hydrants this year. As you can see in the picture, it's a, it's a fairly good sized process to just to replace that hydrant. Most of them are five and a half to seven feet deep. We've got to do a lot of thrusting to make sure that when we need them there, they won't break apart. Next slide, I talked about valve boxes already, so next slide, please. Service box renewals, so these, the service boxes are where we can shut water off at a curb should a customer need to do some plumbing, so we go out and we replace those service boxes, so if we do need to shut somebody off at 2 a.m. because they've got a leak in their house, we can do that if their inside valve doesn't work, and that number was 325 service boxes. Next slide, please. 2025 also showed the completion of the new standpipe. This is the tallest one of this type of construction ever built right here in our backyard. So those, as you can see the first picture on my left where the crane is, those are over 100 foot tall, and they're nine foot wide. So they're poured in place, stood up. And once they're stood up, as you can see on the right hand side. then they wrap this eighth inch wire around and they shotcrete and eighth inch wire around and they do that depending on where they're at five to seven times next slide please and there kind of looks like the finished product of that tank so that tank right now you can fit three and a half Paul Bunyan statues and still have room to the top of the lid as I said it's the tallest one of its construction ever built right here in our backyard next [27:31] Joseph Leonard: Slide, please. You didn't have a question actually on that, on the matter of like security, what we were talking about earlier. It, because it's the first one ever built, do you, I assume the foundational infrastructure is rather sound to handle a lot of that weight, but do you foresee potential issues from a security perspective that might come from that if it comes under like some sort of a sailing door attack or something like from a outside and [28:07] Speaker C (unidentified): Digital, yeah, I mean that's why we have some, a lot of budget goes to it to make sure that no one can get in. As you've probably seen, there's a lot of places that have got hacked where people can turn pumps on and off and add chlorine or add chemical [28:26] Joseph Leonard: we don't want so we spend a lot of money so but if power does like shut off it 's disconnected from the system there's no danger that's posed to the [28:38] Speaker C (unidentified): infrastructure no I mean we have generators a lot of places we've got long lasting UPS is a lot of places so there's not a big power draw then it can go for many days on a ups yeah and it's a it's a ethernet connection to make sure we're you know it's a vpn tunnel connection to make sure that we can get that data and we can always you know if there is a huge power outage we've got generators but then we can have somebody actually go in the building and say okay the tank is at 62 feet need to turn pumps on, and that's where we just man the stations 24 7 or have a couple guys just operators just running around getting numbers so the plant can operate as it normally does. Okay, all right, so in summary, you know, the reason that we need to have a rate increase is so that we can maintain a robust water system. With that many main breaks this year it was very taxing on us, but we are looking to replace as much pipe in the ground as we can, but we just need to be working towards a higher capital budget so we do have the funds to support that. Next slide please. So there's my contact information if anybody would like it or if you have a question after we're done and you want to [30:03] Speaker D (unidentified): chat. Any questions? One [30:11] Susan Faloon: quick one, I don't know if you could speak to water quality, but I mean [30:15] Carolyn Fish: we've always touted Bangers having the best water I think, and it does taste excellent, but should we [30:22] Speaker D (unidentified): be using additional filtration on our taps? I do not, personally I drink it right off the tap, I don't [30:29] Speaker C (unidentified): filter it i don't have a filter on my fridge i put a blank in there so it doesn't get it doesn't tell me in six months to replace it you buy a blank for your fridge i you know i would like to invite all the council members up to the plant to take a tour to you know see what that what it looks like because if you haven't seen it 's a pretty it's a big place lots of lots of stuff to see so i definitely like the council to get up to the plant to see because we i can talk about some of this stuff Ozone and UV and until you actually see it might not make a whole bunch of sense, you know. When we look at our, we do the CCR, consumer confidence report, every year it gets published and it shows that we meet or exceed on a good level the EPA and the drinking water requirements. For when I say exceed, it's just if their limit is a five that we're a two. So we definitely have really good water, the source. We own 98 of the watershed shed so that nobody can be even out there, so there's no fishing, no boating, anything on that [31:45] Speaker B (unidentified): water. We want to keep it pristine. Thank you. Thank you for the invite. Absolutely. [31:53] Joseph Leonard: Out of curiosity, are there stipulations or limits to what we can use for our drinking water that are built in? For example, one thing that's kind of happening all across the country is, and this is a very nefarious example, is there are data storage centers for artificial intelligence where companies will go into, especially rural communities, and say they want to set up a data plant, basically. And they require fresh water in order to maintain their usages. Are there protections that is already instilled within the district that prevent you from making certain extracurricular deals with water? Would that be something that you would have to go through council to do? Or can the board make that extracurricular decision on its own? [32:56] Speaker B (unidentified): I'm [32:59] Speaker C (unidentified): trying to figure out. So any individual organization, corporation that wants to put a building up in Bangor has to go through the process of permitting, so they go through the city to do the permit, they go through us for the water. So it's, it's a pretty lengthy process to even get the water going to the house. We've got to have fixture counts, we've got to know how much you're using. Do we know exactly if a customer would come in and say they want a huge number of water? I mean, I'm assuming you're Talking about a fairly large amount of water per day, yeah. So if somebody says, yeah, we want a 12-inch line, well, we're probably ask some questions of, you know, can we even supply a 12-inch line off of wherever this is, what needs to be done, and why are we using so much. So I think there would be multiple steps before we would just say, yeah, let's, we can do it, because you'd have to go through the city planning process to figure out what's being built there. I think let's safeguard it a little bit so [34:08] Joseph Leonard: What I'm hearing is it would require planning board intervention, and then because of that it would have to go through council. So really it would be at the end of the day a decision that we would have to make. It seems like, please correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like that's the [34:23] Speaker C (unidentified): process, yeah, I did, yeah. They couldn't just come to us and say, we want, you know, we're going to build this building and we want a million gallons of water a day, because it's got to go through the council to get approved for whatever that would be. Thank you, didn't expect that question, but so I will work out with Dave and figure out maybe when a tour could happen, and we can set that up, and if we need to do two because of different time schedules, we can do [34:57] Speaker D (unidentified): All right, thank you, thank you very much. Our [35:05] Susan Hawes: next item is the main action from the grant, and I see the city, the manager circling, yes, and our friends are in public problem, do you know who's going to come as [35:16] Carollynn Lear: well, she's going to come up and join her. I'll grab a picture just quickly. So normally you get requests to approve grant applications. This is just information that we are going to submit a letter of interest for a grant, which we will then come to you with official approval to apply, to apply for some grant processes have this interesting little letter of interest process to start. Jenny's going to talk about the grant itself, but I want to explain why it wasn't a request for formal approval to apply for the grant, because it's not the actual grant [36:00] Speaker L (unidentified): approval application that we're making, right, so this is just a letter of intent for the Maine Health Access Foundation grant. And if we get invited to apply after this letter of intent, then we will come back to the council and go through that process. And this would be $50,000 for two years each. And it would be, the focus area would be behavioral health and substance use disorder. And it would be used to establish an advisory group for the one stop shop model that we've been exploring and setting up for HIV response. And the budget would include stipends for people to participate in the advisory committee, staff time to coordinate the group and implement the one stop shop and evaluated and some questions. [37:03] Michael Beck: questions with the one-stop shop you mentioned that you have an HIV angle to it can you explain I guess the core or the connection between this and the $550,000 we already did for HIV case management yeah so this so what we're [37:26] Speaker L (unidentified): finding and we've been sort of working at a one-stop shop Bangor Public Health goes in and sets up a clinic there three days a week and what we're finding is staffed by a nurse and a lot of people are coming in with medical needs that and it's outside of a nurse's scope so what we're looking to do is have an advisory committee to help us determine what are the needs at the one-stop shop up and how can we implement that so it wouldn't be case management it's more just advising us on how to make this one-stop-shop model happen where is evidence-based and something that we're doing already but we would definitely love to make it more robust make it store medications have some oral health care, dental care, hepatitis C treatment, PrEP, things like that. [38:36] Susan Hawes: Any others? Thank you, Jen. To your update. Yes. [38:51] Carollynn Lear: So I have three items today. I'll begin with the somber topic, which is, as you're already aware, there was a truly terrible plane crash at our airport report on Sunday evening. We now know that there were six passengers and crew members on that flight, all of whom tragically perished in that accident. I think at this point, there's a lot of unknowns. But the most important thing that we can do is to send our thoughts and support to the family members that were impacted. And then certainly, we should also send our support to the airport, fire department, police Department, National Guard, and other first responders that responded to the scene. They're undoubtedly struggling with the weight of what happened on Sunday as well. The airport does remain closed, and there are federal investigators on scene performing their work to uncover what caused the accident. And as you probably heard this afternoon, airport director Jose Saavedra reported that there's a debrief meeting scheduled for this evening where they'll determine whether the airport can reopen tomorrow morning or not. So there'll be probably more to come this evening before we can sort of confirm whether we'll be open tomorrow or if it will remain closed for at least part of the day. There are probably not many questions that I can answer, but I'm certainly happy to try to field them. [40:27] Susan Hawes: Well, Councilman Haleen, Carsten, and Fish. [40:32] Susan Faloon: I assume that you've spoken with Jose and some other staff, and I just want to know how they're doing or how they're holding up. [40:40] Carollynn Lear: Yeah, I think Jose's holding up quite well, all things considered. He's very capable of managing the situation. Naturally the first responders who are on that scene are impacted by what happened. I [40:59] Daniel Carson: was just wondering, considering all the first responders, do we have, what services do we have available to [41:06] Carollynn Lear: them in terms of counseling? Yeah, all of our first responding departments have sort of a robust system of both peer support and outside support available for folks who need that, and we are and will continue to make that available to staff as they need it. How could we as council [41:31] Carolyn Fish: send a message of support and, you know, in our condolences and my thoughts, how would you recommend that we can send, you know, at least the message of concern and support for them? Yeah, I [41:45] Carollynn Lear: think probably through Jose. If there are things that we would like to express, he'll have the best route to do that and sort of a respectful and responsible way. So if there are things that you'd like to share and send them to me and I can sort of aggregate them and give them to Jose. Would [42:04] Michael Beck: it be possible to take that a step further? I mean, I would love it to be some kind of an official message, I mean, from the fact that, you know, responders were there in less than a minute, lying around the news, and you know, they ran headfirst into a situation that I'd spend a lifetime trying to forget, and you've got the fact that, you know, Jose has been thrushed from this position where for the world he's been the face of Bangor and the way he's provided information on these press conferences and I'm Really proud of the representation that he's given Bangor with that, but you know, especially for the, you know, the first responder, just something, you know, whether it be a resolve or a message or a confirmation or whatever, ever say at the council we're proud of you, we appreciate you, and you know, you're doing heroes [42:51] Susan Hawes: work. Absolutely, let's do that. Sounds good. That's [42:58] Joseph Leonard: another. So obviously the ground investigation is still ongoing, and there will still be an investigation even after the airport opens up. And I, it's completely acceptable if you don't know the answer to this, do you know how long investigations like this take to bring to light some of the information that caused [43:23] Carollynn Lear: this accident to happen? Yeah, I think, I mean, I believe in one of Jose's statements he said that it can take 12 or more months, so it's not, it's not a short process by any means. [43:40] Speaker B (unidentified): That's okay. How are you doing? Oh, I'm, how are you doing? I, yeah, I mean, I think we have really [43:49] Carollynn Lear: phenomenal team members here, and they make it much easier than otherwise could be by having them, so I'm appreciative. Anything [Susan Hawes: else? All] right, next on my list is the topic of ongoing meetings with representatives from the unhoused community. So as you might remember, Willie Hurley of Needlepoint Sanctuary had been hosting Tuesday afternoon meetings during the period when we were involved in the railroad encampment response. That there, this was sort of an opportunity for counselors to engage with folks, primarily folks who were in fact living at the railroad, and I also tried to attend most of those meetings. Mr. Hurley has reached out to gauge our interest in ongoing meetings to continue to discuss issues impacting the unhoused community. And I let him know that I would sort of speak with all of you to sort of gauge interest and coordinate scheduling. We don't necessarily have to workshop that here, but if folks are interested in doing that, you can let me know. I think the only sort of one thought I had is next Monday at the GovOps committee meeting, you'll have before you a draft of a standing committee to tackle sort of advising council on homelessness and affordable housing. And I think it may be that committee becomes the primary conduit for those conversations as opposed to counsel directly, but that being said, if folks are interested in engaging directly, I'm [45:37] Speaker B (unidentified): very happy to coordinate that going forward. [45:42] Michael Beck: I'm always happy to listen and to hear from our house neighbors, but I do think that maybe it would be better to channel that through the committee, you know, because we have gotten a lot of feedback there needs to be lived experience on that committee, and this would be an opportunity for them to be heard as part of that committee, if that's what the makeup of the committee that they come to this island is, that's [46:08] Carolyn Fish: Okay, and I appreciate the offer, but I agree, I think the committee members, you know, especially the people that are, you know, the outreach people, they have many stories of those with lived of the experiences, and you know, it would, I don't mind if on occasion, you know, we might want [46:32] Susan Hawes: All right, and [46:48] Carollynn Lear: Then the last thing on my list is a bill that a group, excuse me, of the larger municipalities are putting together a letter of support for, so we participate in the municipal association as a city, but we also participate in the main service center coalition group, which is sort of the larger service center municipalities. So they have been working with legislators on figuring out ways to better support service centers financially, which tends to have more of the shelters than other municipalities, and LD21-24 is a legislative proposal that stemmed from those conversations. So currently, 10% of the real estate transfer tax is retained by the counties, with the caveat that for this year and next, it was reduced to 9.2%. This bill would reduce the amount retained by counties by another 1.8% and require that amount to be transferred to the Maine State Housing Authority Shelter Subsidy Program. As I said, this legislation is sort of a direct response to service center communities lobbying their delegation, looking for support for shelters. I think one reason why this is an artful solution is because, by taking the money from the county revenue stream, the financial burden of shelter funding then gets spread among all the municipalities within the county, and this certainly aligns closely with council's third goal from our priority setting about sort of sharing the burden, at the same time I think we can all acknowledge that we might cringe a little bit at the idea of taking funding away from the county right now, given some of the Very difficult conversations that have been had. So I really kind of grappled with this, and I didn't sense that the other municipalities, because our county isn't unique, sort of grappled with this as well. I think what ultimately where I land, and what I'm looking for from you, is agreement to sign what I would term a soft letter of support that expresses appreciation for the idea of funding these functions that otherwise get funded directly by the service centers, while also urging them to consider non-county sources of funding for the service. So that was very [49:41] Susan Faloon: convoluted. I hope that was clear. Having served on that county committee, I just feel like we are just going to end up paying it either way. It's going to circle right back to us. I just feel like it's just moving it from one spot to another, so that's just my opinion. My question is, if they [50:02] Michael Beck: take it from the county will it be distributed proportionally so if they take a certain amount from penobsac county will it go to penobsac county shelters or are we going to end up sending money [50:11] Carollynn Lear: south? That's a, that's a wonderful question. Yeah, I mean, I believe that there's an entire framework work and application process for the distribution of the money that goes into that fund. Right. And so there is, although we would certainly aggressively fight for that money. There's not necessarily a guarantee that if Penobscot County gives over their 1.8%, that it will come directly back to us. [50:36] Susan Hawes: But if we don't support it, and we're not at the table, you know, we're not there for the conversations. We can't really benefit or not benefit from it. [50:49] Wayne Mallar: What's the time frame they're looking at this to go into effect? So they're looking for it to go [50:55] Carollynn Lear: into effect, it would take effect on September 1st, 2026, and the legislation only impacts 26 and 27, so it's, I mean, it's a sort of a temporary, it's not a permanent, but as you know with these [51:11] Speaker B (unidentified): sorts of things, they have a tendency to become permanent. So it's 26 and seven, so the 26 budget's [51:18] Carollynn Lear: already been set. It takes effect September 1st, 2026, so I am assuming that would be for the next [51:25] Speaker B (unidentified): two budget cycles for the state. They've already done heaven what budget I'm get confused. The county just set the budget for what year? Gosh, I would need to map it out. [51:38] Susan Hawes: So our friend from the county has answered your question. Yeah, absolutely. [51:44] Wayne Mallar: yeah so you 're gonna they've already set the budget on what they're going to use it for [51:53] Speaker B (unidentified): Now we're going to take it away from them. Yeah, I would have to, I haven't made any sense, I haven't [51:58] Carollynn Lear: Thought through because there may be sort of if it's for September 1st 2026, it may relate to when that the county makes the transfer, whether it captures this year or next, the year already done or the next year. So I'd have to work through, I didn't think to map out sort of the county payment dates, but I think it's a good question. I can't imagine they would have, well I can. [52:31] Carolyn Fish: This may be a silly question, but is this a bill that we could flag to continue in the future to massage to hopefully at some point get Penobscot County funds directed back to Penobscot County? [52:47] Carollynn Lear: Or what we might do is if you're comfortable with it, I could take that edit to the letter back to the towns and gauge their interest, including something that says in addition to being concerned about this money coming from counties, we would say if this money is going to come from counties, then there should be some assurance that the paying counties get back what they've put in. That could be something we could add to the letter. And I would imagine that most municipalities would feel the same way, feel the same concern that they'd be giving without receiving. [53:30] Wayne Mallar: There's a side note, isn't that the same amount, the same area where when they did the budget for the county, that department happened to say, we're going to increase our revenues. So that's going to throw the county budget way at a lot. [53:46] Carollynn Lear: For real estate transfer taxes. Yes. [53:49] Wayne Mallar: And they said, we're coming in with an extra $50,000. So I mean, this is just not good. [54:02] Carollynn Lear: So what is your pleasure? Are you comfortable with us saying we appreciate the effort but we would encourage you to consider non-county streams, or would you prefer to not participate in a letter of support at all for the legislation? I [54:25] Carolyn Fish: think we should participate because at least [54:27] Susan Faloon: it's an opportunity. Okay, well if we're, if we're writing a letter to, are we writing a letter to the legislature? It will, yes, it will be a letter of support. I think it can be neither for nor against. [54:47] Carollynn Lear: It can, this is specifically to sign on to a letter being drafted by the service center or municipalities, and they were not doing that. Yeah, that is another option, we could not do. Hey, [55:00] Susan Faloon: and we could can i 'm all right well yeah so like my suggestion would be that we do our own letter and so we're not we're neither for nor against you know we like some of the concepts but you know maybe we suggest some amendments okay you can do that as well question [55:23] Speaker B (unidentified): where does the county stand on this? I don't know that we know how, where the [55:28] Carollynn Lear: Counties I haven't asked, nice to know, I have to believe they're against the counties are not in favor of trick keeping less of what they and they've [55:39] Speaker B (unidentified): already taken a hit, so we're going to go against the county, that's why we're here [55:45] Michael Beck: talking about it, that's okay, but if we're taking a consensus I would be more in line with what counselors learned that we do our own letter [55:54] Carolyn Fish: command, we do our own letter, you know what are the other municipalities, are they the local communities within our sort of area, so we what I was kind of hoping is that the thought process with us being the service center but this money coming back is they would start thinking about some of these monies coming back to their own communities for them to be more thoughtful about participating and providing shelter for their own vulnerable, so if we go out on our own I don't know if again we're standing alone and they're still might be thoughtful of well Bangor is doing their own so we're just going to keep sending our people there and let them take care of it, so my thought was if we joined with the other municipalities with the whole idea that we help them learn how to fish, you know, so the other [56:46] Carollynn Lear: municipalities that are participating in the letter I don't believe any of them are located in Penobscot County, it is Portland, Saco, Houston, Auburn, Augusta, Waterville, Presque Isle [57:00] Carolyn Fish: counties, but yeah, okay, we [57:10] Carollynn Lear: will go it alone, yes, I will draft something up for you all to consider, I don't believe this has been scheduled yet for a hearing so there isn't a huge time sensitivity [57:22] Michael Beck: to it or doing something that's okay, I just put the blog in all year, there was a I don't want to dwell on because this is an exactly this, but talk about sharing the costs, at one point there was legislation that was going to say that GA was going to be handled at the county level, which is another way to make sure that we're sharing the cost is it's the county administering it and everyone's got to pay into it, so you got to be thinking about that because that's what they're looking at taking Somebody from the county but doing more at the county level to make sure we're kind of forcing, you know, they won't come to the table, work with us, at least there's other mechanisms to do that. So my hope is that more legislation comes out like that, and if we do our legislative committee at some point is, you know, to press it upon our legislators that we want to see more like that. What can we do with the higher levels to kind of force the cost burden to be spread? [58:20] Carollynn Lear: That's all I have for city manager updates. [58:22] Susan Hawes: All right, we have two executive sessions that we need to take care of, so. Separately or? Well, you can read them both now. I'm gonna leave anyway. [58:39] Daniel Carson: Madam chair, pursuant to one MRSA section 4056A personnel matter and one MRSA section 4056E [58:53] Susan Hawes: We are in executive session, yes,, yes,, yes,, yes,, yes,, yes, so we will.