Bangor committee refines mission statement, reviews Brownwoods forest plan

[9:09] Susan Hawes: And we are now live. Welcome to a regularly scheduled meeting of the Bangor Parks Recreation Harbor Advisory Committee. It is July 9th, it's about 15 p.m., and the first thing we're going to do is have introductions. I'm not alone, I'm a community member and I'm [9:32] Brianna H. Woodworth: going to tell Father and [9:36] Speaker C (unidentified): Michelle Peltier's members as well, family, Prof Anderson, committee member Tracy will have the [9:43] Speaker D (unidentified): Parks Recreation Director, head of the rural city of Bangor, forestry manager, [9:47] Suzette Holly Furrow: Brianna Fry, community member, with that furrow community member Susan's balloon. I am the city [9:56] Susan Hawes: council liaison. We don't have them, we don't, because the director couldn't get them to you today, so is that an assistant? I'm not in labor, yeah, wait on that. So real agenda again was the. So I put a couple of, we put a couple in front of you, and candidly, Brianna did some work to get us to a point of wordsmithing a couple. The first one, of the first ones that you had shared, and we tweaked it a bit, and we insert the word dedicated, candidly, and for the staff at Parks and Recreation, it's really a dedicated group of folks that pull off when we pull off each and every day for folks here in the city, so wanted to reflect that. Certainly the other key words within that statement do apply. The other piece of this particular statement that found interesting is stewardship of natural resources, so today's discussion is we think, I think a reflection of that, with having been here for forestry, to go with the plan with you, it's all reflective, we think, of what the golf course has been doing for a number of years now with the Audubon certification. Certainly that is, it's both a natural resource and an amenity to the city that is unique to municipality throughout the state and the region, so those keywords feel like reflect what we're trying to do. When I kept the bottom one, the second one there, kind of is on the same lines, but certainly appreciated the work that has been done, and I feel like the first one certainly reflects what we're trying to do. The second one can as well, but ultimately feel like that first one kind of captures the discussion we've had, and I have a question on the version there. We have the list there at the bottom, but reading it out, that promote educational recreational opportunities, that promote stewardship, how does that make sense? How does it make sense that we're promoting the stewardship of bangor's natural to resources i know that the parks and rec department promotes stewardship but the subject of that clause would be the diverse recreational opportunities so your suggestion is stewardship or would you say that through stewardship and maybe promote so manual parks recreation is dedicated to strengthening community connections and civic pride look at there through safe accessible and diverse recreational opportunities and [13:25] Suzette Holly Furrow: stewardship that promote you're going to have [13:29] Susan Hawes: a new sense because yeah, as written would be recreational opportunities are also promoting the stewardship, but it's the department, right? So the thought is the department is promoting the stewardship of our natural resources, and we're dedicated to that. We're also dedicated to the other pieces of the statement. Does that make sense? So if I read it through, Mango Parks Recreation is dedicated to strengthening community connections and civic pride, and we would accomplish that through safe accessible diverse recreational opportunities that promote lifelong enjoyment, well-being. So the question is, does and stewardship of Bangor's natural resources flow with the dedication of that? So I [14:30] Brianna H. Woodworth: don't think so. I don't like that word. I don't know, I'm just saying. Which word is that? Stewardship. Because I don't know what it means. I think I mean, I know that sounds very uneducated, and I'm educated, but it just sounds, that's supposed to be funny, but it's, it just doesn't sound, I don't, I don't, for some reason I'm just giving my opinion. It doesn't, I don't know if it's gonna make, it doesn't make sense to me, and that's my own fault. I'm sure everybody else understands it. I'm just saying it doesn't. Yes, it doesn't. Think maybe the flow doesn't work for you either. Like, yeah, I mean, I know what it means to a degree. I don't, you know what I mean? It's just not a common word. Therefore, I think with the common, don't misinterpret this please, but I think with the majority of people, I'm trying to think, because it's not going to resonate with people, because it's like, thank you, that's the word. [15:21] Susan Hawes: Resonate. And that's just my opinion. No, that's why we're having the conversation. So this is what I need to hear. It's what we need to hear. So saying all of this, do we feel more comfortable with the second suggestion? That's [15:41] Brianna H. Woodworth: my opinion. Yes, I like the second one. The piece about the second one [15:44] Suzette Holly Furrow: that resonates the more is residents and visitors, which isn't, is acknowledged through community more. [15:51] Speaker C (unidentified): So in the first statement, okay, in [15:59] Suzette Holly Furrow: The second part, I don't, the welcoming spaces, I don't really know, think that's necessary or understand what it means, I guess, you know, it's not in the first one. [16:16] Susan Hawes: Safe parks, yeah, I think it's kind of written, yeah, I don't [16:27] Suzette Holly Furrow: know, I kind of like welcoming spaces because it, in addition to having safe parks, it's also a welcoming area where it's a respite, it's a, it's a place, it's a retreat, and everyone should feel comfortable going there [Speaker C (unidentified): regardless, well,] regardless of whether or not it's safe, but it should also be welcoming, like you can go someplace that's very safe but it's not very welcoming, it's just the opposite. I agree with you, I like it, I don't see that, but both of these, what I would say is you're trying to say a lot in one sentence. Okay. So [17:10] Susan Hawes: if I hear the group correctly, we zeroed in on the second one over the first one. [17:19] Speaker F (unidentified): I think it has to be what your department really wants to latch onto. I think promoting and stewardship is funky, but could you use fostering? [17:28] Speaker D (unidentified): Is fostering the better word? [17:29] Speaker F (unidentified): I know some people don't like the word stewardship, but I see what you're trying to, again, we're trying to bring everything into one sentence. So I think you have to, I think you have to find what your department, you know, feels like [17:45] Susan Hawes: is, you know, how they're going to lean into this. So as I start the conversation, the one thing that we are working, trying to get a better handle on, are the natural trail, open space, natural resources that we have, hence why we have 4-3 here again this evening, hence why we're working together on trying to develop the management plan for all of these spaces. So that's an effort that we have started in the last, well, since the Roland Perry Safe Forest Management Plan, which is probably three or four years old now. So that's part of the biggest difference from the statement that we started with 20 or so years ago to now, is trying to reflect that. I did, we did like the word dedicated because, again, and most of you know that staff, we have, it's a dedicated group to what we do, dedicated to the mission of what we're trying to do, so wanted to reflect that, also wanted to be a conversation with you all as well. You all are here, you take the time to be a part of the operation and offering for the operation. So I appreciate that is something that we will be able to live with. But we also brought it to you folks to make sure that it's a whole table making the decision versus just us, and here it is. So we can arrive at that. That's what we would look for from you folks, to strive at something that we can all work with. Either one of these as was presented to you seemed like it would fit with what we're trying to do. I understand some of the comments. I don't know if that's offering you any better feedback of where we're at as a staff. We can take the comments tonight. So if I heard what I'm hearing is somehow get away from the stewardship concept. I'm sorry, that was just my [20:01] Brianna H. Woodworth: opinion. I don't know if everybody shares that. What about protection? That's the center, protection, [20:07] Susan Hawes: protecting. Oh, I love that, the protection of, I know I'm pretty enthusiastic, that's why I'm here, that's why you're here, nothing's right here, great, Banger Park Recreation is dedicated to strengthening community connections and civic pride through safe, accessible, first, love it for yourself, trains and promote lifelong enjoyment, well being, and protect Bangor's natural resources, as well as protecting. So, as well as protecting, is that what I heard? Yeah. [20:57] Suzette Holly Furrow: While protecting things like natural resources. [21:01] Speaker C (unidentified): I like that. Yeah. [21:12] Suzette Holly Furrow: The only other question I have, well, I shouldn't say only, you never know. When we talk about natural resources, we are talking about the parks, but we tend to forget the harbor and the river is definitely a significant part of our natural resource. So as you introduced this, do you want it to be Bangor Parks, recreation and harbor [21:34] Susan Hawes: or somehow include harbor in here or apartments that's interesting. Let me, so by definition in the order for the parks and recreation department, of which the harbor is that up one of the operations of the department, to your point question, the reason why this might predate, maybe not you, the reason it's called the parks recreation harbor advisory committee is that at one time there was a separate stand-alone harbor advisory committee. I remember we had a joint meeting and we had a joint meeting, you might know, no, we [22:17] Suzette Holly Furrow: don't think so, he [22:22] Susan Hawes: had that comment, what he said, you don't know. So the history to that is there was two committees, the harbor advisory committee was dissolved by council, and then that representation came to the parks and recreation committee, head flights called parks recreation harbor. Looking around the table, I don't know that we still have a true harbor representative, but the responsibility of the harbor now falls under this community, right? We used to have a separate harbor master, and now you are right, I have a Separate one again? Oh, you have a separate one again. I was able to relinquish that responsibility. Yes, it was, so that kind of explains that. But you point about the river, you're actually right to the point, to the extent that the city can and control the river, at least recognize its importance to the city and its relationship to the city. So I understand where we've landed. [23:25] Suzette Holly Furrow: Going on ourselves, I just wanted to revisit the welcoming spaces. I do think we have to be careful with that, because there is a criminal element, you know, that we have to deal with, and an addiction, you know, racist in a way. So I think that sometimes that can be interpreted, well, you know, welcoming, there is a criminal element that we really, you know, would not want to, it can be interpreted very good, yeah, you know, there's issues with the part. [24:01] Susan Hawes: Chair, yes, so if I understand the discussion so far, where we kind of have landed, we're back to the first one, and here are the changes that I've heard. Bangor Parks and Recreation is dedicated to strengthening community connections and civic pride through safe, accessible, and diverse recreational opportunities that promote lifelong enjoyment, well-being, while protecting the, while protecting Bangor's natural resources, that. [Speaker C (unidentified): Work, see.] Nods, well, there, appreciate the work on that, thank. [24:59] Speaker C (unidentified): You all, appreciate that. [25:08] Susan Hawes: Well, it was good to see you. As I shared with you just a minute, it was good to have the discussion, and we've been at a couple meetings to have them. You're here because of your interest in what we do, and certainly good. [Speaker C (unidentified): Discussion, now, okay.] Next item, initial overview of the Brownwoods master plan. I'm going to turn over to Ben Aruto, I'm city forester. He's brought all kinds of stuff. Yes, they do have the memo. [25:48] Speaker D (unidentified): So what I have here is clearly not enough copies for everybody. I can print you or email if you're interested the draft copies of the Brownwoods management plan. We are very thankful to Parks and Recreation. We have hired on a joint fire, Sophia Cameron, she is a matcher for through graduate from University of Maine. She is my forestry technician. She has a role that split between departments, since we both manage in tandem parks and different properties. Properties to give a quick overview for three division does street trees wooded Park in tandem with Parks and Recreation as well as ornamental flower beds within Park areas that are broken up between subcontractors and Forestry Commission excuse me for this particular management plan we're looking at this evening is for brown woods very nice wooded parcel the way we complete management plans at the city typically looks at it as getting everything on paper consolidating all the management aspects for a given property these management plans take months and many different entities to complete we work in tandem with main natural areas program to check for endangered species on the properties this particular property we've worked with unitil formerly Bangor gas since there is a gas pipeline that goes directly through the middle of that so that kind of alters some of our management there and overall in working with parks and rec we're able to combine both the forest health aspects of the given properties and work and accomplish the goals that parks and recreation has for a given property basically as a thousand foot overview of brownwoods management plan similar to other parks that we have completed management plans just like essex woods the forest management plan typically from a state level is overviewing all forest aspects and recommending from a forest health standpoint point how to manage a property by no means and you can read this are we recommending commercial timber harvesting the only properties that we recommend commercial timber harvesting because they were organized as such is the roland perry city forest that was organized as a as a demonstration for us and we would like to keep moving forward with keeping that as a demonstration forest so brown woods and essex woods essentially we covered all the aspects and commercial forest management is not viable from both a financial standpoint and then from a community input standpoint nor forestry division opinion it's it's not feasible we will however, be looking to use forest management tactics to improve forest health and extend the longevity as well as you know the safety of parks and trails, things of that nature. So pretty much that covers about the 1,000 foot overview of the very lengthy plans that we have. There is a ton of work, ton of resources that go into these plans, and it's a way for us to have everything down on paper and make recommendations that even in the future, depending on budgeting schedules, we can look back and manage a parcel or a property based [30:18] Susan Hawes: on these recommendations. Ben, what's a typical life of this plant? [30:22] Speaker D (unidentified): A typical life for a forest management plan is 10 years. After that 10-year period, the plan gets looked at again. This is standard forest management protocol. And if nothing has been done for that forest management plan, then a licensed forester can come in and say yes we'd like to continue on and utilize this for its management plan or we have some different ideas based on a change in public input or park and recreation input with [30:59] Susan Hawes: the I'm just going to add with the Essex Woods plan and I think we talked about that here if not incorporated into that is the trail piece of us managing the trail to Essex Woods so as an appendix to that plan will be a separate plan we're working on with Outdoor Sports Institute they did a trail plan for us so as part of the Essex Woods plan there'll be another 30 or so pages stages. Best management practices, trails that we should be commissioning, some options for creating some better connections within the mountain bike trails. So if you're not aware, at Essex Woods, essentially we have an in-town mountain bike park. [Speaker D (unidentified): We partnered] partnered with Penobscot Region, New England Mountain Bike Association, the local chapter to create varying degrees of difficulty of mountain bike trails. Beginner trails that you could take young kids to learn how to ride right through the more difficult trail. Also included at Ethics Woods is the dog park. Also included at Ethics Woods is one of the that burning opportunity if not the region the state and new england pretty unique property pretty property so to have all of those pieces incorporated it's more than just the fourth major piece of it to incorporate all of that activity then it goes back to what we'll be talking about with mission statement in protecting those properties hence why we do this as the director of department having that plan if you've been with this group long enough you Know or we get talked about, we don't let these plans collect dust. We're into them all the time, the Roman Perry plan. If you haven't been to our reef making class in the learn time, the reef making class came out of Roman Perry. You want to protect the health of vegetation there by tipping the screws, using the tips to create some sort of program, which we did, and that's exactly what we do at the right time to do that. Ben and Sophie had a good discussion with a gentleman named Bob DeShane, who you've seen his articles, has been burning out there for a number of years, was part of the discussion. The dog park committee is has resurrected itself and is active again. Discussion with them about as well as osi, so it was really some unique work on what was is not usually a typical forest management plan to create a blueprint for the next the next vote to come along the brown woods. We have never done one problem that I know Essex Woods, the last one was a true forest type management plan which has been limited to folks on harvesting, and that's where so this is quite a bit different. That was in 1999. So as long information these so be prepared pretty lengthy memo that she's going to share with you. They both are going to share with you back in June. It's all quiet. I know it's probably you [35:11] Speaker C (unidentified): know right now where Brownwoods is, yeah, it's [35:16] Suzette Holly Furrow: the one that's off-Broadway and then we're off Ohio, yes, Frankiswood [35:20] Susan Hawes: This is off just off -brand you but I'll probably answer your question. No, so we don't have any sort of gate counter, for example, at any of these problems. Have we ever considered? There are a lot of things, there are a lot of things. Of course, I know some people get paranoid you're going to see those. I guess down in Portland they had those infrared gate, so the boardwalk entrance, the boardwalk gaze of the city forest has a gate counter that when you walk through it, walk back through it 's like this It's analogous to the counters you see on the road the DOT uses. That clicks in the neighborhood of 35,000 visits a year. That really is the only objective number that we can kind of do some fuzzy math, for lack of a term, to generate an estimate on what we get for visits at the Roland Perry State Forest. Conservatively, we have always said it's at least double that's just trip drive trailhead the management committee I suggest the same logic to them and their response is really triple that I'm still be conservative with the number of visits that you we see annually growing per se force it's just a tough thing to tell we've talked about putting one of those road counters at the trailhead so these get vehicle counts how many vehicles in a day et cetera et cetera so there's technology out there to kind of do that 's another discussion for another night but in a long-winded way i have the answer is no we really don't have any idea we could give jen a job by putting a trail camera out there and you can watch the videos it would be a great number to have it really would be a great number to have and it goes back to these public spaces these public resources are always available for both residents and non-residents they're busy i mean if you've ever been to say forest and even essex woods the number of individuals that just go to the dog park on a regular basis regular basis the folks that might access essex woods from the new lowell lot or from the drew lane garden way area over on the other side the number that might access it from either the power line or even at the city forest through the land trust properties it's it's just never there's no we don't have a great estimate on that I would want to share. [38:23] Suzette Holly Furrow: What's the acreage at Brown Woods? 25. [38:29] Susan Hawes: And the acreage at Essex Woods? 93. [38:36] Speaker D (unidentified): 113. And Essex Woods is nine separate parcels that are joined together to make that 113, [38:44] Susan Hawes: whereas Brown Woods is just one configumus. Of course a good paired number of that would be the water yes oh titty forest is just shy of 100 acres 586. that's what you're talking about [39:08] Suzette Holly Furrow: how do we manage our funding for that do we do it like per acreage like [39:15] Speaker D (unidentified): her needs between parks and rec and myself larger work is exchanged through work orders there's not necessarily any there's the city forest trust account [39:32] Susan Hawes: correct so the operating the funding the annual operating of all these amenities is a combination so it's not structured in a way that there is a dedicated division of open space or city forest or anything like that we're not structured that way so the man the yearly operational management of all of these amenities aside from park maintenance within parks and recs or through forestry within public works yes city forest does have a reserve account But it's dedicated to capital projects, realized, say force reserves, [40:22] Speaker D (unidentified): maybe kind of get that. [40:23] Susan Hawes: We use larger projects. We have much project on the next project at the city forest that was funded through budget process is to do with parking study at the city. But it's analogous to all of our, all of our parks are funded under park maintenance. [40:46] Speaker D (unidentified): just yeah and i've also committed out of out of my budget 25 000 for next fiscal year for subcontracted work for various things invasive species control timber stand improvement things that our in-house crew cannot accomplish however that 25 000 is not solely leave for parks and recreation we have a property in winterport that public works owns that we need to do management [41:21] Susan Hawes: although they're in a different department the sharing of resources and opening position it made sense we're sharing resources all the time and information all the time [41:34] Speaker D (unidentified): it really works out and one of the great things that came out of this is either in the fall or in the spring, depending on when the RFP goes out, forestry division will be getting a compact forestry tractor to maintain trails at the parks. It'll fit down the small trails that we can't get our large equipment in that we do street work with. So we'll be able to resurface and help parks and rec out to culverts and things of that nature. [42:08] Susan Hawes: If you've ever wanted a great example of repurposing something that was kind of not a great use of the property it's both the city forest and essex woods both were landfills at one time both landfills at one time with that comes management of that but it's been repurposed and the city forest is made up of a variety of different parcels so it's kind of where we're at i wanted to share with you what's been going on with the management it's kind of a kind of a big deal to get through and ben and sophie have taken the lead on getting through these and [42:54] Speaker D (unidentified): their bed head four service vets these yes yep these are all sent out for third party checks, like I said, for invasive species. And these are all USDA and National Resources conservation certified. Stopie and myself have passed the testing so that we can write plans that meet national and state standards for management plans for forests. So the plan you have there is for all the parks or [43:31] Speaker F (unidentified): because it seems like Brown is next up, that it's been kind of set aside or has been kind of just doing its thing for a while, but it's time to. [43:41] Speaker D (unidentified): Yep, I have a plan for Brown Woods, which is still in draft phase. We have a few revisions and third party state to hear back from. And then in the final accepted stage, we have Ethics Woods, a full management plan for Ethics Woods, was which can be shared fully it's it's finalized there's no further changes we need [44:05] Susan Hawes: yes yeah so once all of the we can post these to our both websites the completed ones once problem which is done the only piece again the essence would is to create is to insert the osi trail specific plans as you can see they're lengthy documents so yeah well yes so we can make those all available as well so that will complete the round city forests essex woods apprentice woods brown woods a lot to get through worth the tax what can you find ethics we left at essex woods to talk about essex woods [45:00] Speaker D (unidentified): so ethics woods like tracy stated formerly a tap landfill was forested by the previous city forester roland perry we are working with the state to monitor the pine plantation at Essex Woods for an invasive species. That invasive species is red pine scale, microscopic little aphid looking thing that really decimates red pines. We have, I think, close to 40 acres citywide of red pine plantations. And if you've been to Mount Desert Island or Cherry Field, all the red pine have gotten this invasive insect and are no longer there 's no living red pines on mount desert island anymore and it's slowly spreading through wind but we're working in tandem thanks to sophia and myself reaching out to those state stakeholders and we have monitoring stations set up in both winterport our public works property in winterport and then also in the woods in essex woods to monitor for those invasive species with it being a capped landfill there's certain management things that we can and can't do department of environmental protection their capped landfill division came out we had a very in-depth, probably three, four hour tour of Essex Woods. We looked at old aerial photography dating back to the 1930s to find the old extents of the landfill to make decisions on where management activities and excavation and things of that nature can occur. Essex Woods, just like Brownwoods, commercial timber harvesting is not viable nor recommended. It goes against the management recommendations or how Parks and Recreation would like to manage that property. Obviously, it's a recreation area. It's not designed for commercial timber harvesting. And just like Brownwoods, we're just going to use it to increase forest health or handle hazards or invasive species, things of that nature. So there's reference about camping and how it's not [47:43] Speaker F (unidentified): you know, set up for things. Do we even have any camping or fire in any of our park woods? Yeah. [47:53] Speaker D (unidentified): Done anything else with Essex woods that you want to make sure you, no, I think I touched on red pine. That red pine stand just off the parking lot, over the next couple of years there will be changes to that red pine stand. If you've been out there recently you'll notice a colored flagging tape on small tiny little trees, and what we're looking at is removing some unhealthy red pine trees in preparation for this invasive species, and those little tags on understory trees, that's going to be our new forest that's going to grow up. Those are native species. We've done an initial invasive species removal mechanically. We're going to look at late summertime, see how those invasive species come back, and then typically what ends up happening is unfortunately chemical control of those invasive species is the best route. However, I just wanted to see mechanical control and cover all integrated pest management approaches versus going straight to chemicals. Has [49:14] Susan Hawes: there been any thought given to the six woods, Tracy, of having maybe like platforms for bird watchers? As a matter of fact, yes. Yep. [49:30] Speaker D (unidentified): They're Bob De Shane and Maine Audubon. We met with ornithologists from the state. There's recommendations for platforms along the former VV railroad bed and opening up some of the views into that area. We have some invasive species that are encroaching on where people traditionally watch for birds. So that's one of the recommendations there and, yes, platforms. Platforms. We did ask about bird blinds. Bird blinds are a very common thing, but it's an urban environment and the birds really don't care that you're there. They're right by the interstate. We, in a separate property, also a capped landfill, we did bobolink count. Out, so they're a threatened grassland bird, and if you were unfamiliar, the 26 acre landfill that's at the end of Kittredge Road that is part of the city forest is managed under agricultural allies. That's grassland bird habitat, that's all native grass. We did a nest count, we counted five nesting pairs of bobolink this spring, and then I believe seven to nine individual male and female bobolink, which is quite unheard of in this region of Maine because they require a few acres of grassland and we Find that on a former landfill that's that's [51:09] Susan Hawes: Now capped appropriately because I was trying out a new camera lens at Essex Woods and I'm like, you know, it would be nicer if I could get a better view. You know, speaking of them not caring, I mean, there was a great blue heron that was just out there within, I don't know, 100 yards of the interstate, just waiting for his next meal. [51:31] Speaker D (unidentified): And it is a birding hotspot. I don't recall the exact number, but I think on eBird, if you're familiar with the technology, it's a recording software that you can get for your phone and reporting for birds. I want to say over 300 or 400 species have been found at Essex Woods, which is a huge hotspot. There's just such a diverse array of habitat types in that tiny, I'd say tiny, 113 acres. [52:02] Susan Hawes: Also home to a lot of turtles. Yes. I just have a couple of things to add to business. Someone has suggested that, you know, those the signage where, you know, pedestrians, cyclists yield to horses and pedestrians and pedestrians, has there been any thought given to putting a couple of those out at City Forest? Not specifically, but we do, we just actually talked about this internal giveaway having a reliable rule of the road type science, educational science and Google language like that, so that's a good idea. Well, we're always trying to educate folks to use some of those properties. Separately, we actually had an issue today at the boardwalk. We're struggling at the boardwalk with adhering policies and rules specific to the use of the boardwalk, i.e., running. We had a couple of gentlemen who brought Segways out today on the boardwalk, and out there it's not made for that. I think they're not helping with that. The boardwalk is for walking. So I share that with you. Yes, there are some things that we can do to try and educate some folks who sign up to the show. So, any more suggestions? Horse manure. Much like your dog, you're supposed to clean up after. So the horses at the City Forest, it comes and goes as far as usage. They are allowed on the roads. They're expected to clean up after their animals, just like dog owners are. And judging by the statements, we have the same kind of success with horse owners that we have with dog owners. Someone sent me photos. They didn't need the Wheel of Comet because I've seen it too. We don't have anything out at the kiosks, do we, that says, hey, you know, you've got to pick us up after your horse. We don't specify a horse. We specify pets. Pets and if we need to win brought a term pet, yes, probably folks don't think of the horses as pets, but at the end of the day is pick up after your animal. So and just out of curiosity, what is considered to be, I don't know, picking up after them, like after they've done their little thing and then they go out with a fellow, or do it at the time, or should be doing it at the time, just like dog owners? Yes, that's the expectation. Yes, the reality is probably not the same as the expectation. What's what's going on with Mansfield stadium lights? Have you figured out? We were approved for additional funding through the budget process, so the next step will be to put our yellow for that or circle back with the original proposers and confirm that indeed what they proposed a couple of months ago still holds true. So the hope would be to get through that process through this fall, at the end of the season. Initially we had budgeted amount of money and our initial RFP process we were a bit short, so we have additional funding approved this last budget process to add to that to get the project done. The current fixtures at Mansfield stadium are the original in 1992. And if you ordered it the night back you're going to shoot, so [56:22] Speaker C (unidentified): please stop. The issues mean they're not, lights aren't going on, or are they just, they did a couple of the polls [56:32] Susan Hawes: didn't come on the other night, they eventually came on. The other issue we're having is just finding gear and hardware to make repairs and to get bulbs out to replace them. Similarly we had a Union street, they've just dated their old well, so it's time to more efficient lighting and more efficient LED fixtures, replace the console with a scoreboard, they replaced console with scoreboard, yes, that was 12 years old, 12 years old, yes, things have to be replaced [57:13] Suzette Holly Furrow: About signs, signage again. So I noticed that at Hayford park it says a drug-free zone, but the Fairmount park there wasn't a sign about alcohol use, but nothing about drug-free zone, or so I just didn't know if those signs were going to be updated. I and the littering, I know I think I said this before, but the littering is, and there's a little image of the person throwing, you know, trash, looks like, you know what I mean, when the rules of the park, but there's no sign about littering or a fine, I know There is somewhere else in the city about the state, you know, the fine, but I think it's also a city ordinance department on the number, so I didn't know if there could be. Does the public works department make signs? Lines, okay. I don't know if they're getting more snitch or two. There's nothing about, like, specifically about littering and a fine and this drug-free zone in Fairmont Park. I didn't know if all the parks, any of the other, I just looked at Hayford, Fairmont, well [58:21] Susan Hawes: The first one first, so there is, I'm trying, I don't believe there is one at Fairmont, the drug-free zone, no, and I didn't [58:28] Suzette Holly Furrow: See on the rules either, it said, I think it might say something about alcohol, it does, yeah [58:35] Susan Hawes: So the drug-free zone signs came about when that state statute was enacted, I can, yeah, so certainly we can add them to other parks consistent with what we did at Broadway and Hayford for littering, yeah, we asked those not to litter on our general information signs, but we can see if we can add some language on those current signs, we tried as best we can, I think we'll have to talk about early in the city for us, our goal at the time with those consolidated signs, every park, how you identify the park And try to at least, some of our parks don't have an abundance of signs every year, so try to balance that out with these two suggestions, questions, at the very least we can add to the existing sign. The [59:30] Suzette Holly Furrow: Pool does have on the pool rules, it does say drugs, but it doesn't say it on the park. [59:35] Susan Hawes: Right. I'm not sure. So we can add to that. [59:39] Suzette Holly Furrow: Is there doggy bags at each park? Should be, yes. [59:44] Susan Hawes: The number of bags we go through is astonishing. We never have enough of those [1:00:01] Suzette Holly Furrow: I don't know if this is that, the dog park is having a festival on Sunday, that's right, so [1:00:08] Susan Hawes: If I may just for your own information and a follow-up to that question, the dog park was created by, through initiative, through a group of citizens, and I'm at a point now where I forget the exact number of years, so I'll say a number of years ago, those pens exist through their fundraising effort, and it was through a council approved partnership between staff and committee, the committee, two of the original members have got new members, so they're, they're want to come back, their goal is to fundraise To hopefully place a small casino up there and to continue to help out with some improvements up there. What helps us as a department and staff with those kinds of groups, it's like community garden. It's an extra set of eyes and individuals up there to help us manage the facility. It's three pens up there, a large dog, small dog, and training area. They want to add some training pieces to it as well. So yes, they're having an event on Sunday up at the dog park. They're pretty excited about it and though there's a dedicated fund for the dog park that does proceeds. What's [1:01:32] Speaker C (unidentified): going on in the rec center? We're still a work in progress, still [1:01:41] Susan Hawes: working. Certainly we've heard from our council and we're trying to work on our next steps to come back to council with some suggestions. How was the movie night? So the movie night was a tremendous success, six, almost 700 attendees. Waterfront concerts is a great partner for that effort. If we were able to squeeze in another other night, we certainly would in the course of the summer. Unfortunately, fortunately for them, unfortunately for the city, their, that venue is going to be very busy the next four to six weeks. This month alone, starting next week, there'll be 11 events, 12 events down there. So to answer your question, went great, well attended. It's a pretty cool event to put on for us and off the free movie night. Folks think it's going to be good out on the lawn. It's a great, atmosphere. Great, opportunity for folks to see a free movie. [1:02:54] Suzette Holly Furrow: So it worked out great. Do [1:03:05] Susan Hawes: we want to meet next month? Typically this committee skips August and regroups in September. That's what I'll share with you. Perhaps you do the same again. But I'll leave that up to the discretion of the chair. [1:03:23] Speaker F (unidentified): There's nothing, so there's not an item on the, on the agenda that is pressing. We [1:03:31] Susan Hawes: do have, we'll have, there'll be a couple things on the agenda we'll want to go through in September. So we want to leave with them, stop with staff. Well [1:03:46] Speaker C (unidentified): what is the second week, 13th September, oh August, wait [1:03:52] Susan Hawes: the time we're going to September, go to September, we'll skip August and go to September 10th. Perfect, that's what we'll do. Appreciate it, thank you all, thank you