Portland Rent Board approves 132 Marginal Way increase, elects new vice chair

[0:01] Matthew Lex: Welcome to the August 26th, 2026 meeting of Portland's Redboard. I'm your chair, Matthew Lex, and let's call roll. Kristin? Here. And Laura? Here. [Jonas: Jonas? Yeah.] Gordon? Here. I am, of course, here. And Buddy Morris not currently, but said he should be here shortly. All right. We have some minutes to approve, and it's the June 24th, 2026 minutes. Were there any modifications that anyone saw needed? Did all [1:17] Laura: right then, anybody got a motion to accept them? Motion to approve the June 24th minutes as [1:23] Matthew Lex: written. Second. Thank you. We have a motion and one second. Motion I'll call to vote is to approve the June 24th, 2026 minutes. Kristen? Yes. And Laura? Yes. Jonas? Yes. Gordon? Yes. And I also vote yes. That approves those minutes. Thank you so much for the great notes, Dylan. All right, communications. We have, we do have something. So, Dylan, take it away if you would like. [2:14] Unidentified staff member: Great. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So just attached in the agenda materials is the rank control report for quarter two of 2026. So this would have been on last month's meeting. So it is April to June of 2026. And this was presented to the Housing and Economic Development Committee just as its quarterly report, and breaks down audits done by staff and the stats of the rent increase applications and appeals before the board. [2:52] Matthew Lex: Thanks so much, John. [2:54] Matthew Lex: Did any board members have any questions on the report? Wonderful then. All right, on to some unfinished business. Let me get a couple more minutes and just see where Buddy's at. I think Buddy's still going to be a little longer. So let's get into some unfinished business. Unfinished business item A is the election of vice chair, however, which we feel like kicking down the road for a few months so that we had a full set of people here. We can still hear you. Oh, I was going to say. Yeah, I've just been having a lot of technical issues with my camera. So hopefully it holds out because I thought the rule was that I can't touch it, but I didn't think I touched it. So, all right, so let's, so anyways, what I was trying to say there was that, the, we've been kicking this election of vice chair down the road a little. And I think, by the end of the meeting or later, the meeting will have, a full compliment of our members. So let's hold on a minute and wait for that. So then that'll bring us to unfinished business item B, which is the rent increase application and public comment for 132 Marginal Way, all the units. So crazy, I'll fix it later. So Let me review our public hearing rules. I don't really have the one today, but I feel like it's always helpful if I go if I cover this, you know. I think PJ has been here for them, but let's all Right, so for our public comment, applicants will state their case before the board and can present witnesses and offer additional documentary evidence. Following the applicant stating their case, any objectors may present witnesses and offer documentary evidence. Objectors are defined as follows: in the case of a landlord applicant, each tenant of the dwelling units which is or the subject of matter of the application shall be deemed to be an objector if present and participating in the hearing. In addition, for our pursuant section 6255, the chair has the authority at the chair's discretion upon request to designate any person or organization who is present and wants to participate in the hearing as a specially interested party with the rights of an objector. And so this would be kind of other especially interested parties. I think particularly we see we have a tenants union or some other representative there. Following the conclusion of the applicant's case and the objector's case, members of the general public or neither applicant or objector may offer evidence or statements relevant to the matter under consideration, and each speaker will be limited to three minutes, potentially with another three if there's some real substance there. Applicants may then offer rebuttal evidence, and after that, objectors may offer evidence in response to anything first presented by the applicant during rebuttal. Then acting through the chair, the applicant and objectors, any objector may cross-examine witnesses. And then members of the board may ask questions of any of the interested parties. After all of that, we'll give members of the public a last opportunity to respond to new issues that were raised in the public comment period. And then most likely we'll close the public meeting record part of the hearing. All right, I think I say every time hopefully I get better at that every time. All right, then do we have a representative the applicant? Yes, PJ, I see you there. If you're there, your hand raise, I'll get you in here and you can a second and you should be able to talk and video if you if you like. Hi, PJ. Thank you for joining us today. You're probably muted. Yeah, everybody comes in muted. So if you please just introduce yourself, PJ, and if there's some particular points you want to make about this application or just a general overview, if you like. And now we've heard some of it, but we have some new board members, too. Can't hear you, PJ. Should be able to, guys. [12:42] PJ Massey: Hear me and see me now, hopefully. Yes, excellent progress. I appreciate the opportunity to present this application. My name is PJ Massey, director of asset management at Revler. This is a long outstanding increased housing service cost application. We're eager to have it finalized. Resolving it paves a path for ownership to continue properly maintaining and reinvesting in this building. The costs outlined in this application are permitted per the ordinance for this application type. The operating expense comparison years for this application are 2021 versus 2022, and they rose directly because the building went from previously being a half empty, approximately former dormitory to a successfully leased up a 196-unit apartment community, following subsequently about roughly $11 million of private capital injected to fund the conversion. [13:55] Matthew Lex: Thanks so much, PJ. Certainly. That was quite helpful. All right. I'm going to move you back to attendees for a minute. We'll move through this and see if we have some members of the general public and that sort of thing, and then we'll get you back in if there's response needed. Now thank you, Mr. Chair. All right. Do we have any tenants or objectors, people that feel they should be designated especially interested parties as objectors in this, in the attendees? If you could please raise your hand. We'll note to board members that we did have a written public comment in regard to this. So I'll just make sure you read that and let me know if we need some time for that. But all right, it looks like we don't have any objectors. Do we have any members of the general public who wish to speak on this? And raise your hand if the attendees. So not seeing any. [Jonas: That means] there's no need for rebuttal. And let me get PJ in here if there's any questions from members of the board. Hi, again, PJ. Thanks for shuffling in and back at me. It would be nice if we had a podium, you know, maybe you could step aside. All right. Did any board members have questions about this application? PJ, I just have a question. I'm pretty sure, but you said there was this conversion of this building. Is any of that part of the cost of any conversion or of that reflected in the application? No, right? It's just like the new management costs and that sort of thing, the new maintenance and everything precisely awesome thank you so much any other questions from board members for the applicant all right then we'll get PJ back into attendees thank you so much PJ if you don't mind sticking around every once in a while some question comes up in deliberations I feel like we've all had lots of time to review but let's see and then okay and so then I guess I'd look for a motion to close the public hearing part I'd [17:37] Speaker G (unidentified): move to close the public hearing for 132 Marginal Way second thank [17:45] Matthew Lex: you have a motion and a second and let's call it to a vote unless there's any discussion or objection the motion is to close the public hearing For 132, marginal weight, all units. Kristen? Yes. And Laura? Yes. Jonas? Yes. Gordon? Yes. And I also vote yes. All right, so that takes us to deliberations for this matter. Anybody? Kristen? [18:39] Laura: So for Gordon and Jonas maybe it would be helpful to frame out the background of the because this was a two different ordinances or two different versions of the ordinance and why this is not on an MNOI application that just that background might be helpful because and Laura buddy you and I know but that just might be good for them absolutely I definitely appreciate [19:07] Speaker H (unidentified): some context. I did in preparation for some outstanding poor properties in the different ordinance, go back and watch some of them, but, you know, it would be good. And I not speaking for you, Gordon, but it would be good for me just to kind of recap how we're, how we're thinking about these things, I guess. [19:26] Speaker I (unidentified): Absolutely. That would be great. Yeah. Thanks. [19:30] Matthew Lex: Well, then I, 'm not one to love to put words in other people's mouths, but I'll speak my experience from the meetings at least. So these applications are from a while back. The ordinance was somewhat different, and I think if you've seen from the old copy of it, allowed for more of like a category of some different categories of increases, one of which is this very broad increase in services costs trying to find the exact yeah increased housing services costs right and so all these applications came in at once so they're kind of had to be worked through like they came in right before the change they obviously had been prepared and so I think you know we've various iterations of the board i think to the biggest point of it i think various iterations of the board did really dig into this like why did these costs go up like what's really going on here because you know it's a big that was the concern right is like okay we 're accepting that the housing service costs go up but why and so you know I think you can see in like this particular like this application has a ton of breakdown of why these costs are and that's kind of because the board in various iterations over this time has like really audited out the management side of this and said, all right, like, what's really going on here? This is a huge jump. And so, and similarly, I think over time, you know, it hasn't sat well with various board members that this is a big increase, and this honestly isn't the biggest of some of the applications. So, you know, some others had larger percentage increases, I think. And so there has been pushback on a bunch of these applications at various times by different consistence of the board. And the board has always come back to kind of not being able to reject these applications on any of those conceptual pieces. And the applicants have been super cooperative about really opening up books in a way they didn't necessarily want to, but the board kind of made them. And I think the last piece that was my take out of this that I really at least came over in acceptance myself was that the timeframe that we're looking at is like the ending of the pandemic dynamic and it's just like a really, it's a really unique year time set to be looking at. And so while some of the numbers, you know, look like very large jumps, you know, I think we've seen it in other applications, we've seen similar things, and you know, this particularly isolates it because a lot of these are a lot of properties too, so it really like compounded itself. But that was kind of, I think, the like one thing that a lot of us came into some consensus on at least at the end is like, all right what we are accepting here is a this is part of the old ordinance where like i think it was realized that there is a better the mnli is a cleaner way to just make sure that we're doing exactly all this exactly how it is and that we're looking at like an extraordinary time period in that you know like it's it's not what we expect from the normal year to year and then it maybe wasn't really captured in all the things that go along with housing costs weren't really captured in the actual CPI Increase and so I think that's anything more and I probably already talked too much, Kristin, or and Laura or Dylan, if you have points you feel that are, you know, that have come up in the past, but that's that's my shot at the kind of summary of history, you know, it's this is before my time on the board too, that these originally came in and the ordinance was like this, but we've reviewed a bunch of them now and I think we've, you know, in the end they processed out the same of that we just, you know It's in it seems in line with the ordinance and there's, you know, at least Anyways, hopefully [24:33] Speaker H (unidentified): Helpful. Yes, very much so. Thank you, Mr. Chair. [24:42] Matthew Lex: So that kind of said, is there any discussion we want to have here or, you know, otherwise look for a motion which, you know, we can of course discuss within, I don't know if there's some particular, you know, line items or items that are problematic, but, you know, it's kind of the way the ordinance falls at this point is my understanding, [25:15] Speaker G (unidentified): I'd make a motion to approve the rent increase of 176 dollars and 27 cents per month for 132 Marginal Way, all 196 units. [25:29] Laura: I would second it. [25:33] Matthew Lex: Thank you. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion. [Unidentified staff member: All] Right. Then I'll call it to vote. Our motion is to approve the rent increase application. Let me grab the number [Jonas: For] One hundred and seventy six dollars and twenty seven cents per unit for all units. Sorry, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing that number, right. Kristen? Yes. And Laura? Yes. Jonas? Yes. Gordon? Yes. And I also vote yes. And that approves that application. And I think, yeah, if there's anything else we need for this decision, we can get it. But I think we have everything there. All right. So let's [27:15] Matthew Lex: See on Buddy. Thank you, Council. Is there anything further you needed, Councilman? All right. Well, then, let's... if it pleases the board I do want to get into our new business and not delay too much but I also Buddy said he shouldn't be too much longer so I don't know if it would be all right at the board if we go handle new business item D first and get a little update on that [28:02] Speaker G (unidentified): Sure, but I also I don't have an update. My life has been a little nutty. My plan was September things calm down but I don't have an update right now and I was gonna reach out to Matt W for a format of how he's done it before or approached it. Okay, let me know if you have [28:22] Matthew Lex: Needs or question items there for sure and if you want the I know so like I know originally man am I blanking on this former chairs of ours name but so someone [28:45] Speaker G (unidentified): Did huh wasn't his name Matthew too no wasn't it Phillip yes so Phillip was an actual like [28:53] Matthew Lex: data science engineer and did some really great like python coding work to do some really cool stuff with that I think kind of the discussion was like a lot of that's way over the top but if you need things like one of the things he wound up doing that we found useful in the next ones was that he like actually did the sorting by Ward via like a little kind of map app overlay thing he did in code it was kind of cool and anyways I guess my comment on that now is while we don't have Philip if that was a thing you want we could definitely just get an llm to do that part so if that's a missing piece that you're like we can't you know like I can't figure out these words or something for units and you want that data let's we can [29:53] Speaker G (unidentified): That was a question I did have. I wonder if it's for Ben, is if we are allowed to use an LLM or AI to do that? [30:06] Speaker J (unidentified): With respect to the report, the annual update, I don't see any reason you couldn't use AI as a starting point. I certainly don't think there's anything in your rules or the ordinance evidence that would prohibit you from doing that so no I don't see any issue any issue using AI as a starting point to generate that okay I'll use that and then verify thank you thanks so much guys I don't know if the city has a different perspective that's mine right [30:42] Matthew Lex: I think the thing we'd want to make sure is we're not feeding non-public data into a public l-o-m you know a public AI instance or something that's using that so that would be my main concern so that's the other thing too if you want to just talking over or looking over with me at some point we could you know we could have it code it and then like inject the data ourself or something too so much [31:09] Laura: of my life now Kristen and I suggest that we maybe talk about out a date to reschedule the workshop that we didn't have because we used the time as a makeup meeting? [31:24] Matthew Lex: We did. Were you not there and I didn't notify you? [Laura: We did?] Yes, I thought so. September 9th, correct? At 6pm. [31:37] Laura: Did I know that? Maybe I knew that. I'm sorry. Maybe I did hit my head. So maybe I did know that. I'm sorry. [31:43] Matthew Lex: I also forgot to put it on my calendar and only looked this week and was like, oh no, wait, I'm missing that. So yes, then and so I think we could get this on here. You know, I had a promise when we scheduled that workshop originally, I promised board members and the public that I think we would keep it to two and a half hours or something like that, and I'd love to still kind of try and keep it in there at two and a half, or maybe we, you know, we cap it at three, but let's, we can handle it when we get in there. I think what we'll do is we'll limit some discussions to the hour mark or something. So that won't be, even though I think we keep tacking on some issues, it's still my intention for that not to be, for sure, more than three hours, and ideally more towards the two mark than I promised originally. Gordon, did you have something? [32:41] Speaker I (unidentified): Yeah, it was regarding the previous topic. I, for school, have recently done a little bit of work with some rental housing data in a in a spatial component, it's kind of mapped, so I'd be interested in helping with the report, and I've got some experience wrangling some of that data [33:03] Speaker G (unidentified): do the report. One of my stipulations when I signed up was that I could do it alone, but if you want to [33:08] Speaker I (unidentified): do it, I will gladly hand it off. I'm not looking to take on that much that fast, but glad to help where I can lend some skill, then [33:22] Speaker G (unidentified): at your discretion, landlord. I'm okay, but thanks, Gordon. I work in tech, I got my degree in computer science, I missed that the math, Matt, I did so many math classes for simple multiplication now, right [33:42] Matthew Lex: I work in tech and I don't do math, I do math here. All right, so then, all right then, let's come back around and start into the completeness checks, because we can't just hang all day. All right, so our first piece of new business then is the completeness check for 56 Federal Street,, Unit 56-2. Oh, wow. Let's see. I see. Do we have a representative for 56 Federal Street in our attendees? If you could please raise your hand. Awesome. Just give it a second. We should get you in there. Wonderful. And you'll be able to unmute and speak and get on camera if you desire, and I'll wait till you're ready, and then I can give a quick overview of the mischecks. [35:12] Jian Hongzao: Hi, this is Jian Hongzao. I'm the owner for 5658 Federal Street. Hi. [35:20] Matthew Lex: Thank you very much for joining us. So and Mr. Moore, there you are. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Which, buddy, We just started into, literally just started new business item A, which is 56 Federal Street, unit 56-2. All right. Thanks so much for being here. I believe you've been through this process some before, yes? Yes. But yeah, but so the completeness check is just basically so that we make sure we have everything needed to process the application, and given that, then we'll get the, we'll get a public hearing scheduled. So if you want to, you need to present or summarize your application at all? Just a little general of the, I guess, the reason for the application and just the driving factor of the need for the increase. [37:10] Jian Hongzao: So the application, basically, we're trying to account for some internal, I mean, our own labels happened last year after we are getting the purchase the property from the previous owner, and then also some, you know, appliance that we purchase for the units and then the buildings, so, and then also some tax difference between now and then back in 2020. And I understand that in the past when I was here for the case for 58-2, I have already presented that I don't have any data back in 2020 because the previous owner didn't share any data with us, and it's hard to track back. So I just want to clarify that. That's all I have. And I use the equation wherever it's in the document application. So try to come up with the, based on the, I think, last year's numbers, to come up with the rent increase for the units. [38:25] Matthew Lex: Great. Thank you. All right, then. Did board members have questions for the applicant or items that they felt were missing from the application that they'd like to see there? There to help. I just had a question on the rent increases that were taken. And it looks like you've been increasing rent as allowed. And I just wanted to check if there was any banked rent left that you were aware of in terms of the available increase [39:52] Jian Hongzao: rent that you haven't used yet. I don't think so. I think last, before we purchased the property, there was a bank increase, I mean, there's an increase, there was by the previous owner based on their bank drains, so, but since we take over, there's no, I believe, based on the calculation I have done with didn't in the past, and so there's no additional increase, I mean, the bank rent available for the units. Yeah, and they have been deep there for the last five, six years, so it's not like I have new tenants moving at all, so I can bank them either, so they've been there. Okay, thank you. [40:50] Matthew Lex: Other completeness items that other board members wanted to see. I think the item I want to bring up here for discussion is just that the accepting that we don't really have the right we don't have base year data. My one concern with leaving the current year data blank on the application for other things like management and that sort of thing is that it's my understanding that when the application is accepted, the current year that's presented in this application becomes the base year for a future application. And I didn't know if it mattered there of not having those other numbers on this application. You know I think what we would do generally right is basically this we'd say oh in our calculations we're going to strike insurance or accounting or whatever because we don't you know we're going to strike the current year number because we don't have a base year number and so we wash them out and just my concern and Ben I think this is a question for your interpretation as well is that if this application is approved like this whether more of these missing fields could be filled out and provided in a future year's application that this is really like that my understanding is that this sets the current year to, like if this application's, if an application's approved, it sets the current year that it was approved to be the new base year, but not necessarily that the numbers on that application are what becomes completely set on stone, it's simply the year adjustment. But yeah, I was looking for a little feedback from other board members, just so we don't in the future get in a bind find where some of us felt one way and some of us felt the other and we let it slide without discussion here and put the applicant in a bad situation later Emma [43:16] Speaker G (unidentified): I'd like to hear Jonas's thoughts but I was just going to say haven't we talked about this exact issue with this applicant for a different property though before do we remember our conclusion yeah [43:32] Jian Hongzao: Last time I only have tax available because I was just getting the property over from the previous owner so. [43:43] Speaker G (unidentified): Got it thank you for the clarification. [43:47] Jian Hongzao: And I understand this will become a base for the, you know, future years. But if I put all the utility that I put it in there, then I will, you know, the numbers that I, but because I don't have previous years, so that will, you know, change the calculation somehow too. But in the future, if there's anything change, if the utility does make the difference, then I should have my own data to put the utilities for this particular year and compare to the future years, right? So I think it's not that I'm, I can add on in the future, but do a comparison, but those will be data as well that presented is a real data. So I don't think it's going to change the situation at, you know, at down the road. [44:42] Matthew Lex: I know that there were board members in the part, of my bringing up too, is I know there were board members in the previous, when we looked at the same situation before with this applicant that wanted to see that data on there regardless. And so I want to make sure if that's a concern here in the way that it's called out in the application that this is acceptable and meets the needs of the applicants. So yeah, I'm trying to, I think we're all on the same page and I'm just trying to make sure that the board is too so that we protect you in the future of being able to do exactly what you said of filling the later data. For lack of any real objections here then and for lack of a request of any of those other items coming in, do we have a motion to find this application complete and to be scheduled for a [45:51] Speaker G (unidentified): public hearing and Lauren I'd move to find the application for 56 58 Federal complete and schedule it for public hearing second [46:05] Laura: thank [46:09] Matthew Lex: you we have motion and a second so any further discussion thank you so much yeah thank you all right I'll call it to a vote and so this is to the motion is to find the application for 56 Federal Street units 56-2 to complete and schedule it for public hearing. Kristen. Yes. Ann-Laure. Yes. Jonas. Yes. Gordon. Yes. Buddy. Yes. And I also vote yes. Thanks so very much. And Dylan will be in touch noticing for the public hearing. I imagine that our next meeting isn't already super full, But I don't think so. [Jian Hongzao: Perfect. Thanks. Bye.] All right. All Right then. So new business item B is the rent increase application completeness check for 303 Forest Ave units A and B. Do we have wonderful Hi. Welcome. Thank you for being here today. You should, you're unmuted and you should be able to talk and get on video if you so desire. And if you could just introduce yourself and then kind of as I said before just give a summary of the I guess the substance of your application of the reason for the application and the increase thank [48:38] Jacques Kogimana: you for taking this time for me. My name is Jacques Kogimana. I'm rendered for 130347. I'm rendered since 2020. Yeah, I'm filling application because I changed the apartment B was two bedroom and one bathroom because the market there is many family was requesting three bedroom it was hard to get it yes I decided the city to give permit to add another room and bathroom this unit was unused area I see is possible the city was approved to do that yeah this unit was getting 1650 hundreds as you see on application when I wish to make trading 2600 because I make I add another room and the bathroom there if you see on the market right now I will grow the market right the my area three bedroom is around 2800 between 28 and 30 hundred moment if you approve this will be great because I hope is be it was just helping the community to get somewhere they can live and the apartment edge has another unused area I make their comfortable to be office she was letting 20 hundred and seventy because I make another improvement there I'm requesting to Thank you [50:53] Matthew Lex: so much. All right. All right. Then, do we have questions from board members, completeness items, things for discussion in here? [51:20] Speaker I (unidentified): Yeah, I'm curious if someone from the city is here to speak about the nature of the violation and where they are in the process. [51:33] Unidentified staff member: Yeah, I can speak to that. So the notice of violation, I'm sure you found it in the meeting materials, has been appealed by the alleged violator through Rule 80B of the Maine Civil Rules of Procedure. So it is essentially being contested by the landlord and has been elevated to court at the time. I've [52:06] Speaker I (unidentified): got a follow-up question as well, Dylan. Yeah, go ahead. When something like this happens, and, yeah, you know, we've been through this a number of times, is your audit process then the entire building? Because there does appear on the license there's a third unit here as well. [52:24] Unidentified staff member: Yeah, it's for the entire building. Okay. [52:35] Matthew Lex: Thanks, Gordon. Other questions do board members have? More completeness items? [52:50] Speaker G (unidentified): Anne-Laure? Just speaking to the notice of violation, I'm wondering how other rent board members are feeling about potentially tabling this until the notice of violation is resolved, because the violation is for a rent increase, I would support that. [53:12] Matthew Lex: I feel like generally we are able to move forward with applications and then wind up having to table things in order for the actual until the notices are resolved, but I guess my wonder was I didn't know if we necessarily need to table this here if we could generally process this application otherwise. [53:46] Jian Hongzao: Yes. Yeah, thank you. [53:50] Jacques Kogimana: Okay, I apologize because it's about the noise. Yeah, I was never know I'm a new landlord. I apologize. I was never know about the rental boat. I make I feel this application because the city was advising me to when they give notice about the duration, they advised me to go to board rental board to apply this increase rent moment I do that this they advised me you can go to appeal this decision of the court I was never know about now they give a device again to go to the board I apologize I was not going to have the any reason or any purpose to go behind the rules or the yeah the rules I respect the rules I'm not bad person who want to miss the rules the simple trend or any the rules the federal you can even I was not to know about the rules rating I increased this unity when I cause this unit I use this math the unity B was rating 1650 I divided this 1650 into two then I get the amount for each bedroom, when I get this amount of bedroom, I multiply by three, I get equal the price I can rent this unit. Because if I know about it before, if I have to come to see the board to make decision about this rate of increase. [55:53] Jonas: That is helpful. You're welcome. [55:59] Laura: Kristen? I think at the very least, if we're looking at completeness, so Jacques, usually we look for some supporting documentations for the work that you did. So receipts of, for the paint, any of the materials that you use to do the construction of the two, you know, the, new space, you know, sheet rock that you had to buy. So if you can look for your receipts from where you bought those materials, and did you do all the work yourself? [56:41] Jacques Kogimana: Yes, some of them I work by myself. [56:45] Laura: There's an area, and I don't think you filled it. Oh, you did. You did put in your owner-performed labor, did you not? [56:53] Jacques Kogimana: I had the license, plumbing, and electrician, and someone doing the roof. [57:11] Laura: Any documentation to support the money that you spent to make this new part of the unit we would ask for, so that when we do look at your application we have that information. I [57:29] Jacques Kogimana: understand I should get, I should do such as the provider of you great. [57:36] Matthew Lex: Yeah, and I'll list it out and we'll Dylan will email you the list at the end of the items or requests that we made, but yeah I think to summarize and Kristin tell me if I'm wrong, because I think there were two line items here to discuss, one was one was receipts for any materials purchase and then and okay really almost three, so the receipts for materials purchase, receipts or invoices for any of the contractors paid like the electrician or the plumber or people who had to get paid like whatever the their invoice and then an estimate submit of the owner performed the labor and what the items the owner did work, does that cover the three pieces? Yes we can all right, so those and then the other side is do you have information on the expenses from what when did you purchase the building I guess what year? 2020 December okay, if you do you have any of the information from the previous owner about like the expenses stuff like so their costs for insurance and accounting and legal and those sort of things did they provide you with any of that? Yeah let me give you a [59:54] Jacques Kogimana: little bit story about this property please excuse me, I buy this property from the owner was occupied that was occupied the Apartment A Apartment B Apartment A was occupied with the tenant from Section 8 program was letting there 850. This amount was I don't know what happened to get the two bedroom for 250 in the portland it was unacceptable, he was asking me to pay another money behind, I think this is some fraud in this rating, I say no I could not, you could not pay without the contract with the section eight, if section need to say a 50 it's a 50. You could give another money behind how can I say that the hand, so when he she see I'm not accept any fraud like that she's decided to get out the property looking like without the history, the owner after three months he gave out the house comments without We vote history, I start to rating as no history to increase amount. That was happen this unit. Yeah, unit C was nothing, no history, just the unit A was rating. Also this was not my contract. Then he decide to quit the lease, to quit. I start rating as the market rate it is. [1:01:55] Matthew Lex: Okay so you don't really have the previous owner's expenses or anything from the earlier year [1:02:02] Jacques Kogimana: Okay, I don't have any because even it is there, I should, I should not get it because I buy, someone was Legas, the owner died, then give the, they give another people this property, after he dies, he's selling immediately, understood. [1:02:26] Jonas: [1:02:29] Matthew Lex: All right, then other questions and item requests from board members. Buddy, I think like to your last question, Mr. Chair, you know, obviously it's imperfect, but even if the applicant could just provide that information from like the first year they owned the property, that might, it might at least, so 2020 I guess, that might at least be able to like give us an idea of where they're at with like their rental income and operating income from year to year, so we, while it's not like perfect, I think it's maybe the best information we have about it, rather than setting like the numbers at zero, because I think it makes the math kind of weird down the road. Does that make sense? So yeah, then I think just if on that page seven, the section seven and section 8, the income and operating expense side, if you can fill in what you have from your first full year of owning it, at least that, like, gives us some basis to see if there's other expenses that change for you there. But the reality is, the, I believe my understanding is the main point of this application is the recovery of the renovations and the change of the unit. Yes. Yes. So, yeah, I think that's great. So I wrote that, Buddy. I wrote that down as income and expenses from the 1st, full year. The property was owned 2021. I believe. Yeah, I think that's fair. At least we can obviously talk about it later, but. Might be a good starting point. Great. Other items from board members. So then I have for the completeness requests, all right, so the requests that I have are receipts or invoices for materials purchased for their renovations, receipts or invoices for any people who were paid for work that was done in the renovations, estimate of how much labor the performed and what the work was and about how many hours per task of particular tasks, income and expenses from the first full year the property was owned in 2021, and then the in order for us to fully process in the end I think the generally the notice of violation will need to get resolved for us to it's generally hard for us to approve an increase without at least knowing that the city side of it has settled and those numbers are set so that we can adjust those from what they were found. And that's, I think that, and I think, yeah, is that other items from BoardRomers? Otherwise, I think I'd probably let's give this back to the applicant for the time. And then, Gordon? [1:06:58] Speaker I (unidentified): Gordon yeah I believe we've tabled something before when it was or not tabled approved a check before when we were in the middle of there's a active you know violation something we worked out the city I believe that was the property on Massachusetts Avenue a couple months ago and right we didn't have the hearing until those numbers have been resolved but what ended up happening was during the hearing, we had the new numbers and there was quite a bit of kind of like working meeting, doing the numbers on the fly that I don't think was, you know, the best. And so my I'm inclined to just table this now and then have another completeness check once we have the final numbers. [1:07:49] Matthew Lex: I think that makes really good sense to me, too. That's where my line of thinking was headed, is that we can give the applicant some time to get this material into the application, and then we'll schedule them back and make sure that everything's there so that the board members feel they've gotten everything they needed and that there's a few items there. [1:08:19] Jacques Kogimana: Xakes? Xakes Vazquez- Yeah, thank you. James please can you repeat again I didn't copy what you said [1:08:31] Speaker I (unidentified): Yeah sure so I was referring to a previous meeting that the rent board has had where we have been in a similar situation in terms of someone was applying and had an active violation in case of the city in the same case I think they had appealed it and brought it to the state court. So, in my opinion, I don't think that the application should move any further forward with the rent board until that matter with the city and the court is resolved so that we can see this again with kind of the final numbers you're proposing and then move forward with our process. [1:09:26] Matthew Lex: Thanks, Gordon. Would you like to make a motion to that effect? Because I think that's about where we're at is getting this back to the applicant so that they can do that. And I think it's probably a few ways to work that language. But, yeah, something that we will basically that will give this back to the applicant for until the completeness items are all able to be provided, which includes resolution of the NOV. [1:10:01] Speaker I (unidentified): Yep, I can do that. I move to table the application for 1303 Forest Avenue, Units A and B, until the list of completeness conditions has been met. [1:10:15] Matthew Lex: Thank you. I'll second that. I did ask for it. Great. So then we have that motion in a second. And, don't worry, I'll make sure it's all clear. I just want to get through the procedural side of it. All right. So, then is there further discussion on that or the board members who have kind of objection to that and want to see this brought. Right back, I think. Doesn't really make sense. Great. Then I'll call it to a vote. So the motion is to table the application for 1303 Forestav Units A and B until the list of completeness conditions has been met. That as I had and I will they'll be emailed to Kristen. Yes, and Laura. Yes, Jonas. Yes, Gordon Jordan. Yes, Buddy. Yes, and yes as well. So wonderful. So what we'll do is Dylan will send you this those items that I read out, but he'll send them to you an email so you have a clear list of what we're asking and send those that those back to him and I think he'll try and stay informed but keep him informed of the process of where you wind up with the appeal for the city's violation to you and then he'll get you scheduled back into a meeting with us so that we can check we got everything and move forward with your application so we can get it processed for you. Dylan, I just and go ahead sir too if you if you have more questions there. [1:12:38] Jacques Kogimana: Yeah. Thank you. I think if I understand where your decision table here now, we may not go forward any before the court make decision. I have a little bit confused. [1:12:57] Matthew Lex: No, that's that's correct. Yeah, that's what that there's, there's those other requests in there, but that,. Without the court's decision being made yet, it always becomes that we're not able to actually get to that last piece. So, yes, correct. And that's,. That would be the request here, and you could definitely provide the rest of the materials and make sure we can know that we have them. But,. Yeah, that's the understanding here is that the violation side, the core piece will need to get resolved for us to be able to do the final piece of the application. Did you have other questions on it? [1:13:51] Jacques Kogimana: Yeah, I do. I just still have some confusion. If you do not have any decision before the court, why do you need this stuff? Stuff [1:14:04] Matthew Lex: if you want to wait until the court and provide everything at the when the court decisions made that's fine that's you know it's kind of it's it's we're just basically we're listing the pieces of the application pieces that we would need to add in order to finish it so yeah so that 's up to you completely if you don't want to you know if you want to just kind of wait on this and be like all right let me focus on the court side and the part with that part with the city and then wherever that Resolves just provide this information that's fine and we will you know nothing will the time won't change in that I'm aware of [1:14:49] Jacques Kogimana: Do you have deadline support to be provided this stuff you want [1:14:56] Matthew Lex: I'm sorry yes you have timeline this stuff so you can provide these items as on your own timeline at this point so we don't need them by a specific date we just need them in order to process the application so yeah so exactly yeah so excuse me sorry no go ahead [1:15:30] Jacques Kogimana: I test some deadline processing the to make processing the document yeah maybe you can say two we in two week in one day in one month you know yeah it's all right so we meet every month [1:15:46] Matthew Lex: At least once so whenever those items are whenever you have those whenever you've done the court side and you send in the other stuff then Dylan will just schedule you on to the next And honestly, and I, hate to say, you know, I don't like to say things for sure, because obviously I'm not in control of the law and the other situations, but a year could go by and you could send in this information and we'll pick up the application right there. There. So that because this application is for a specific, already specific set period and time, it's not like time passing really changes this piece of it, except that we try and get things processed for applicants as quickly as possible because we know it involves money and housing. And we like people to have a living and have housing. I think that's the point, right? Thank you. I will try best I can. Absolutely, thank you so much for your time today, and I'll send that information over to Dylan, and he'll send you that in email so you have the list and everything, and you can always communicate back with Dylan if you have other questions or [1:17:08] Jacques Kogimana: concerns. But yeah, he's he's a little good guy, he's a nice guy. [1:17:17] Matthew Lex: Dylan, I just wanted, sorry, I had called you like 10 minutes ago. I just wanted to make sure you had, other than me sending you the list of requests, that there wasn't anything you felt was missing here that you needed to, I guess, schedule once that comes in, or if there's There's something, information, some caveat, I don't know. [1:17:42] Unidentified staff member: Nope, I understand. And yeah, I'll get that list right over. [1:17:46] Matthew Lex: Awesome, I'll make sure to send it to you right after the meeting. Thank you so very much, and I hope we see you soon to process this the rest of the way. All right. [1:18:13] Laura: Kristin. Can I suggest that maybe we use our rulemaking process to create a rule that if there's an active NOV that specifically relates to the rental amount, that we probably should wait for resolution before it's agended because it keeps happening. And I don't think Dylan has anything to go by. So I just wanted to suggest that. [1:18:42] Speaker J (unidentified): Yeah, Kristen, I'll add that I've got a working draft of MNOI regulations that we can discuss with the subcommittee next week, but that rule is in the works. And I think it'll be a broader discussion amongst the board as to how they'd like to frame the rule. But yeah, that is that is in the works and will certainly be something that I think we'll be discussing [1:19:13] Laura: on the 9th. And Ben, is that something that we were going to discuss this week and need to reschedule that meeting? Okay, then I will touch base with you and Buddy so we can get that rescheduled. Perfect. [1:19:26] Matthew Lex: Sounds awesome, everyone. Yeah, we can definitely discuss in depth there because I'm sure there's me. You said it and I started having thoughts about it and was like, oh no, all right, let's let's look at the full revision so and that'll be that's scheduled for the ninth for the public workshop part of that and I'm just mentioning it again because it is a public workshop if I'm not wrong and therefore if members of the public wanted to view and or comment on it, that's, they're right. Thanks, Kristen. Other, anything, lack of discussion or points of order before I move on to next business? All right then, new business item C is a rent increase application completeness check for 24 row of both units. I see. I'll get you in here. Spencer, give it just a minute, Spencer, and I should get you in here and you should be able to get on video and talk if you like. Can you hear me? Yes. Wonderful. Thanks. So it seems like you've been here the whole time. So tell me if you want more review of the completeness review concept there but otherwise go ahead and present [1:21:25] Unidentified applicant: your application as you see. Yeah, I'll, I'll just go through it and feel free to stop me if you have any questions or if I kind of go off the rails here. So my wife and I bought the property in May of last year. It had been with the previous owners for like 25 years prior to that. Unfortunately, I don't have access to any of their records, so any base year 2019 stats that I put in there I either gleaned from public records as far as their income goes or on the operating expenses I estimated it and I clearly notated which figures were estimates with EST in brackets. Brackets. But my wife and I did some extensive remodeling of the property. Our original plan was to live there the whole time. But our circumstances changed, our family's growing, so we needed a little bit more space. So we moved out and are applying for this rental increase in order to cover some of the improvements we made. We, you know, prior to this, we were exempted because we lived at the property. So it wasn't really an issue until we moved out. But we leased unit one in December, which is why the current year 2025 income is so low. That only represents one month of rent. And then just as far, you know, the operating expenses were, fairly minimal, just some cosmetic things, washing the roof, and then the insurance, and then like I said, for the base here, I did have to estimate that. I did look back at the property tax records, so those are the correct tax numbers per the public record, but then it really just goes into kind of some of the capital improvements we made, rebuilding the chimney, doing some rewiring, refinishing the wood floors in both units, insulating both units, redoing the drywall from the insulation, painting. We put some architectural ceiling tiles in the kitchen in the first unit, redid the bathroom in the second unit, installed new laundry in both units, and then put gutters up around the house. So at the end of the day, the application is really primarily looking at those capital improvements and trying to bring the rent up to get a fair return on those improvements. Thank you. [1:24:24] Matthew Lex: Then I'll open the floor to board members. Jonas. [1:24:45] Speaker H (unidentified): And this could be in the receipts and I'm not seeing it, but I'm just kind of curious, you have some planned capital improvements for this month, it looks like, Unit 2 closets. I'm curious if you were able to execute on those. [1:25:06] Unidentified applicant: We did, and I would need to pull those receipts. But the Unit 2 closets and the trim work were both finished. They're both done. Okay, great. [1:25:35] Matthew Lex: Just did you have other questions at the moment? Now I'll put my hand down. So I guess so, for so for the 2025 year that we're talking about, basically we have owner occupied in unit two, so you were there, so there's no renting of that, and then it wasn't, then unit one wasn't rented that whole time as well, that whole year, and then just was rented in the end just for the month of December. That's correct. Okay, and that's the rent. And was the previous owner also in unit two, or was that rented when you bought it? So the [1:26:29] Unidentified applicant: building was vacant when we bought it, but the owner did not live there to the best of my knowledge when it was sold to us, or prior to it being sold to us, for a number of years they had lived there prior to even 2019, but in the, my wife says in the 1990s they lived there, but not [1:26:52] Matthew Lex: okay, so and so those, the rent that you have listed for the units for the base year in like section 17, and it gets page 22 of our packet at least, those are the rents though that you know, like I know you had to estimate other items, but those are the actual rents that were being charged in 2019. That's what they registered. So that's from the rent board's public records. Yeah. Okay. And then, and so do you know the last time it was either of those units? So it was empty when you bought it. Do you know the last time [1:27:43] Unidentified applicant: either was occupied by a tenant? I do not. I know it was vacant the whole time it was on the market, and it was on the market for probably nine months, but to my knowledge, yeah, I would have to go back through the public records to see, you know, when the last time they registered it as occupied. All right, yeah. [1:28:18] Matthew Lex: I was just kind of trying to check that those were the rents, and then also see if there's any kind of known banked rent that was unused, at least in the rented unit. But I think if those are basically so what I'm kind of seeing is those are the numbers that you had, and at least at some At some point there was, there's the single turnover because it vacated. So, yeah, I think that would be yes. That's since I just keep asking questions that I'm not sure we have full answers to that would be a request there of any, if you can sure up any of that rental history between 2019 and. 2025 and I'm not sure if you can at all right you just may not be able to yeah I can look [1:29:29] Unidentified applicant: through the public record where on the application did you want that info entered [1:29:41] Matthew Lex: So in the I guess you can put it right in the section 16 in the monthly rent increase of just showing I guess stating what that previous rent was or you can just provide provided a little addendum sheet and say here's what I found or here's you know an email or here's a lease I was able to get my hands on or something and I'm not sure it's gonna make the hugest difference but it always the more we know on that and like the timeline and the numbers helps us like determine if there's banked rent that you have there basically that we need to like exclude from the amount so it just helps us sure so you know seeing that whether what those numbers were helps make that doable for us okay it's always something I'm trying to make sure we get earlier on because otherwise we come to the end and we're like oh well we 're not sure this one number so here we are stuck and we can't get it approved right away for you it and I'll and I wrote that down too so we'll send it to you and yeah really all you have is public record you know it's what we're using too so don't kill yourself on it but it's definitely helpful other questions requests from board members so then since really that only item was my little minor one I think we could probably and the applicants provided us with everything they basically have I think we could schedule this for public hearing likely if somebody has a motion for such or other thoughts otherwise Krista [1:32:27] Laura: motion to close the I'm sorry motion to find the application for 24 row of complete pending any items requested thank [1:32:48] Matthew Lex: you Kristin we have a second Thank you, Jonas. And we have a motion and a second then any further discussion. Great. I'll call it to vote. Then the motion is to find the application for 24 row have complete pending the. Requested item, Kristen. Yes. [1:33:27] Jonas: And lower yes, Jonas. Yes,, buddy. Buddy. [1:33:36] Matthew Lex: Yes. And I also vote yes. All right, Spencer, thank you very much. I'll have Dylan send that over to you. But otherwise, I think what you'll be looking for is the notice for the public hearing. OK, wonderful. That'll be the next step. We'll open it up for public comment and then get it worked through. [1:34:00] Unidentified applicant: OK, thank you all very much. [1:34:16] Jonas: All right. So we [1:34:22] Matthew Lex: already talked about the annual report, which leaves us with the unfinished business item A, election of vice chair. And we're all here, so we're going to do it. So now that everyone's had a couple months to think about it, is anyone particularly excited or not excited to carry our vice chair? Sure. All right. Well, then does somebody have a nomination, a motion to elect? I promised I was going to look this process up better in my Robert's Rules, and I didn't. So, any nominations then? So, you know, basically, we'll just vote from them. [1:36:02] Speaker H (unidentified): I nominate our current vice chair, Anne-Laure. Laura. [1:36:13] Speaker G (unidentified): And Laura. I don't know how she feels about this, but I nominate Kristen, who's not yet been vice chair, but I think it would be wonderful. But I don't know how you feel, so please share. Could [1:36:32] Laura: we just review what the responsibilities are? Maybe we're just... Sure. When you're not there, right, Matt? You should become Matt. With lots of help and support from Ben, since not... Okay. Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, [1:36:50] Speaker J (unidentified): I think I can share that behind the scenes historically it hasn't been a lot of work for the vice chair all [1:37:03] Laura: right fair and lore and I appreciate you sticking up for me when I was not at a meeting and not nominating me in secret like I'll do it to your face I would never go [1:37:15] Matthew Lex: behind your back I appreciate that well I'll second that nomination for Kristin seeing its warm reception well let me let's not do that's what I was trying to avoid with the So this is what I was trying to correct from previous times, is that I believe the, yeah, so I believe for us in a remote meeting, and tell me if you do not believe this is right here, Ben, or something forbids it, but I think the right process here is to roll call and basically have ballot style vote in that roll call. So I'd call roll of a vote and you'd say the person you're voting for. That's exactly right, Mr. Chair. So that said, I believe, well, do we have a second for, and Laura's nomination? [1:39:03] Jonas: Actually, is the question second? [1:39:09] Speaker G (unidentified): She was like, wait, all right, but Joe has made the nomination, so [1:39:16] Matthew Lex: Oh, second. Oh, yes. Do you have a second for Anne-Laure's nomination? Oh, [1:39:29] Laura: I'll second it, and then we can vote. Okay. [1:39:31] Matthew Lex: Okay, that's fun. All right, so then I'm going to call roll, and you have options. You can say Kristen, or you can say Anne-Laure, or I suppose you could abstain. So let's find out. I shall call it to, it's not really a vote, I'll call the election. Kristen, I will abstain, and [1:40:06] Jonas: Lord, I'll vote for Kristen. Jonas, I will also vote for Kristen. Gordon, I vote for Kristen. Buddy, I'll, I'll vote for Kristen. Oh, wow. [1:40:32] Matthew Lex: I vote for Ann Lohr. And it's nothing personal, Kristen. But you are our new vice chair. [1:40:40] Laura: Thank you for everybody's vote of confidence. [1:40:49] Matthew Lex: Wonderful. That was... That was that. Any points of order, other items of business that we've missed here? Otherwise then I would look for a motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn. Second. Thank you guys. I'll call to a vote because I think I have to immediately [1:41:23] Jonas: immediately. Kristen, yes. And Laura, yes. Jonas, yes. Gordon, yes. Buddy, yes. I also vote yes, and that [1:41:42] Matthew Lex: adjourns our meeting. Thank you to all our board members, our applicants and attendees, the city, our wonderful council, and. I think that's everybody I could think. We will have our next meeting on Wednesday, September 9th at 6. P. M. Eastern time. Thank you and see you all then. Good night. Everybody, everyone.