Harpswell fire committee weighs hiring facilitator for consolidation talks

[0:01] Greg Musil: Actually it's almost 10 past. Yeah, we're up. It says we're making what is this? [0:09] Frank: Unacceptable safety risk. Cancel classes at elementary school. [0:12] Speaker C (unidentified): Good afternoon. What is the date? This is the 24th of September. Yeah, this is fire rescue planning committee. I guess the first thing is, did everybody have a chance to read the minutes? Anybody want to make a motion we accept the minutes? Second it. All in favor? [0:39] Greg Musil: All right. Chair Greg Musil. I vote in member. Yes. As far as I'm concerned. I'm good. I think so. Is your mic on? Yeah, my mic's on. Can you pull it a little closer to you? [0:54] Speaker C (unidentified): Jonathan says hopefully Aaron is there. This is why I'm moving it around. It sounds like. [0:59] Speaker D (unidentified): That would be, no. [1:00] Speaker C (unidentified): No, it's always good to have error here. Yeah, okay, so I think what we left off was you were gonna reach out to the town manager down in, was it, yeah. Had you [1:20] Frank: heard anything back from, you want me to take it Frank, so Frank and I had a conversation with Nathan Poor and he was the town manager in Kenny Bunkport when they established a municipal department and he made the point in the conversation to say they were just dealing with fire fighters in Kenny Bunkport. He said he thinks it'll be more difficult or complex, I think is the word he used, to talk about what's going to happen with the emergency services as well, so they did not have that piece in Kennybunkport. It's a separate entity. He said it was a willing kind of merger that the various entities that they dealt with wanted this to happen. It was not hostile in any way. It was not the town saying we are going to do this. It was how can we work together to make this happen. He did not recall using a specific consultant, but he did say it required a lot of legal time to work things out, and then he talked a little bit more about how things were going in Falmouth and the fire chief there he offered that Frank could meet with him. Howard, can't think of his last name at the moment, but they've had somewhat similar situation of, they had at least one I think volunteer organization that they kind of brought into the municipal realm, okay, and so he would be open to talking about how that all works. So you know he just suggested that it's going to take time. It wasn't an overnight process. It was a lengthy process. And is there more that you remember from that Frank? Do you think that sums [3:29] Speaker E (unidentified): it up? That did sum it up, but I mean, if I remember right, that the organizations and [3:35] Frank: in kennebunkport are still in existence they're in existence but they don't have the primary responsibility the on-call firefighters are paid by kenny bunkport yeah but that you're right they have their associations maybe not all of them but at least one maybe a couple so that can continue to exist that's good to know that there was some [4:00] Speaker C (unidentified): flexibility in that. So it seems like there's a lot of latitude in I [4:10] Speaker D (unidentified): see Kenny Burnford has, I looked up the Wikipedia and they have a population of only about 3,000 people, so it is Kennebunkport is a relatively small community and it was, seems like it was less than 10 square miles. They do [4:31] Frank: have a business district with a lot of, yeah, but I mean relative size, yeah, for population, year-round population, yeah, it's lower. The area they're covering is relatively small. They had four stations, yeah, they did. They had kind of a geography thing going on there like gum, what was that, Kate, I want to say Kate porpoise if that sounds right, and there was one in the village and then there were two other locations, Goose Rocks was one, several of the stations [5:07] Speaker E (unidentified): were in pretty poor condition. I think that was some of the issues there too, but a couple of them [5:13] Frank: and then I think we mentioned last time how they did have this generous benefactor who left a lot of money that could be used to purchase vehicles and equipment [5:26] Greg Musil: so they have a fund, a capital fund for that, yeah, it sounds like, what, I think that's what [5:31] Speaker C (unidentified): Phippsburg had the same thing a number of years ago. I think they had some money given to them that they use for vehicles, but that was probably 15 years ago, two [5:43] Speaker E (unidentified): ladder trucks. They've got a new ladder truck they wanted, they were going to replace that, company wanted to keep it, so they fixed whatever was wrong with it and then kept that in their station too, so [5:58] Speaker C (unidentified): when I suggested we reach out to them, I was thinking more along the lines of who can we bring in, like we did when we had the earlier conversation to help us maybe build, I mean, we basically have the information you have on how, you know, two reports, but some way to keep us on point because one of the things I observe is sometimes we circle around on the same topic for three or four meetings and sometimes we can get stuck. And so I think it's helpful to have somebody, whether or not it's a specialist in the fire service or not, but somebody to come in and help us keep on point and build consensus and a plan. Not necessarily them build a plan, him or her build a plan, but help us develop a plan. [6:58] Frank: So Cumberland County had a consultant. Were you involved in that for looking at how fire services were delivered in Cumberland County? Yeah, so [7:13] Speaker C (unidentified): any I was a couple of those meetings. They hired an outfit kind of like we had here. I think it was yes, all we had here, they hired a similar outfit, and then everything got put on the back burner because that outfit kind of broke up, and one of the one of the principles, I believe they were, the county manager was able to communicate with one of the former principals from that outfit so they could get a final report or product out of it, and it was it was a real high level. I didn't really see anything that came out of that report with the amount of effort that went into it, and I think part of it's because they didn't have a direction. I might be speaking out of place here, but my from my impression there wasn't enough of a direction or enough time spent on building a direction so they could start working on a plan. So it was kind of like this well, what should we do? Well, we should gather statistical data and analyze it, and we should, you know, that kind of stuff. And in the end, they wound up creating a fire, I don't want to call it a fire, a county fire administrator. It's not a county fire administrator. It's a fire, basically the job on it being they brought somebody in, and the idea was supposed to be they were going to communicate amongst all the departments in the county, and if somebody was putting training on they would let the rest of the departments know, and it was that kind of thing. The person they hired lasted right around a year and he's left, so that's back in limbo again, but they have created a county steering basically a steering committee fire EMS steering committee that is comprised of an oversight committee which is different fire chiefs from the county, and they're working on this kind of stuff, so that's kind of independent of what that full-time position was created to do at this point. So they're making progress, but York County's world's ahead of what Cumberland County is on that aspect. I mean, Cumberland County, I mean, York County, they've got some congressional funds, they started their own training Academy essentially, they hired somebody full-time, which is what Cumberland County tried to do and then the guy left to try to manage that. So I mean Cumberland County is going that direction. They just, they're just behind where your County is now and I think they're ahead of pretty much all the other counties in the state. So I mean we can, we could reach out to the county commissioner, find out who it was, but I'm pretty certain that outfit is gone and I don't know the person that got to bring in that was the principal of the former outfit to help them come up with a final report. I don't know that, I believe they're still in that business anymore. I think they may have done, there may be doing other things now. [10:43] Frank: I think Thalamus Howard may have used a consultant, correct, but that person's no longer [10:50] Speaker E (unidentified): available apparently. Who did we use to help us build that big report? I think it [11:07] Greg Musil: was some Frank. The name sounds familiar but we all wanted to friend but I don't [11:15] Frank: know if he's doing that kind of work anymore either. I can put a message out to like the manager's listserv and ask them if they know of any consultants who might have expertise in this [11:28] Greg Musil: area and or facilitation. But I think even skills, the skill set though I'm particularly thinking [11:37] Speaker C (unidentified): about it 's useful that they have some background where they know of fire and rescue But I'm talking about somebody that can help manage the room or manage the workflow or put together drafts and all that so that we can come back on it rather than, all right, who's the last one to pretend like they're not in the room so they don't have to write that draft report and help us try to keep on task. I know Jonathan told me last night he thinks we need to have a consultant but I don't know where we're gonna find one that's, I mean I'm sure we can [12:21] Frank: find one. It'd be nice to have somebody who has some particular expertise but [12:28] Speaker C (unidentified): how do we go about finding ESO when we did that initial study? I don't [12:36] Greg Musil: remember how we did. We put out an RFQ, we may have. It's so long ago, I do, yeah, that's over 15 [12:43] Speaker C (unidentified): years ago now, that was like 2008. It's almost 20 years ago. Yeah, but the facilitator that we had when we did that, 's the word, thank you, facilitator, that's what I've been trying to think [12:53] Speaker D (unidentified): Of now for 10 minutes that turned out to be, I think, very effective. That group was created for the EMS transition. We created a task force and brought in members of the public so that the, there was a broader participation, so that the taxpayers were involved in it as well. And the person we had doing that seemed to work very well with us that, to your point Ben, we kept us okay, this is what we're going to do today, now let's hear if, are we all set with that topic, let's move to the next one and keep moving, not as you point out, don't get stalled here. Yeah, all right, get an answer to it [13:42] Speaker C (unidentified): and we move on and that what you think that was Frank going [13:47] Frank: You're going back now to the paramedic service. I don't think that was Frank, no. So I don't, can't, I don't recall who we had at that point, but a lot of the members were interested in helping write the report at that time. We had some people who were really well, we had Catherine and we had Glenn Freeman, Frank O'Hara is the one who came in more [14:12] Speaker C (unidentified): recently, thank you. Well, I think that process because the paramedic process, that one that I think that process one up nicely tied up at the end. We had, we had a full report, we had vetted it, we had public participation and I can't remember who did it, but if they're still in the business, you know, and they didn't bring a lot of fire on EMS [14:48] Speaker D (unidentified): it was, but the process worked well because that's what kept, then I agree with Ben, we just need somebody, we have the information of what we have and where it needs to go, we need that guidance to create, to create the document of the pathway, say okay, this is where we need to go, where do we start [15:13] Frank: where do we end, do you want it to include emergency medical services or are we just talking fire? [15:20] Speaker D (unidentified): I think it has to. Yeah, I agree. It has to do that. [15:25] Frank: And then I think, obviously, we have to meet with each organization to find out, are they willing to consider? [15:36] Speaker D (unidentified): And that has to be done at the org. Based on the information I've read, that has to be done first locally at the individual organization, that we have to bring our folks together and say this is what we're interested in doing and get their buy-in up front, because we don't want people deciding that they don't want that or they don't want to lose their local department somehow or which would result in losing people. We have to be very cautious that whatever we do gets a buy-in from the folks involved, so you know when you read those Steps that spells out very clearly in those papers that you start out in, you know, discuss it internally first, and so that people know what's what's what's good, what you're proposing, and they're [16:31] Speaker C (unidentified): not finding, you know, later on. Committee page doesn't go back before 2016, so there's nothing for, I was looking to see if that report was on the website. [16:44] Frank: There are some reports on the fire and rescue area because we have a separate part of the website. [16:54] Speaker C (unidentified): But I think by bringing somebody in like that, like that process we did, that's a public part where we invite everybody from the three companies and we have this open conversation about it here as a larger group. I mean, I think it's helpful to do it as a larger group than it is. And we can still have our conversations like you're gonna go back to your station, you find that conversation Aaron I are gonna have that conversation, but I think the public discourse should happen here, and so that everybody is hearing what everybody else has to say, and we can bring everybody along for the [17:32] Frank: same journey. So I think what I'm hearing is we need to budget some money in the 2027 budget for consulting or facilitation services on this topic. Yeah, yes, so we'll look into that, you know, about how much should we budget. I mean, I'm just going off the top of my head, I would say at least 20 000 because this is going to happen over a period of time. You don't have [18:02] Speaker D (unidentified): to spend it all. Yeah, I don't remember what we spent on the paramedic program was a nine month. And we met, it seems to me, we met almost on a weekly basis. It was an active endeavor. Yeah, it was. [18:26] Speaker C (unidentified): One of the hard parts about it is that the other thing that's kind of in the background there is this conversation about the town still doesn't have a municipal fire department. You're gonna have a station in 28, early 28, you're gonna have a station that's going to be open in the liability side of all that. It goes to town meeting in March [18:48] Frank: Hopefully gets approved in March. I'm not understanding your liability the fun. Oh [18:53] Speaker C (unidentified): the label my understanding where there was some issues because the department and that town doesn't have a fire department as far as the Liability carriers and stuff with it. [19:08] Frank: Well change it, we may be, we may have made municipal available to us, but they're currently saying that they would not, they would not take the town on because of our unique relationship with the departments and that we don't have our own EMS license. It was really around that issue but [19:31] Speaker C (unidentified): I see the bigger issue and that's a significant piece of it is whether or not the town's gonna [19:38] Greg Musil: have a municipal fire department or not for the station it's probably not when it first opens [19:43] Frank: because we have to have a district and right now the three of you each have a district yeah and we have an ordinance that says we the town are providing supplemental assistance yeah so until we decide and all those things have to be what our new system is going to look like and when it's going to happen i don't think we have truly a municipal department we are still supplementing services of the three but we're working toward how do we create this department which I believe you're saying is going to include both fire and rescue and then what does that mean do we become the do we build you know I mean there's a lot to think about there I mean not that it can't be done but you have to take time So [20:34] Speaker C (unidentified): if we're going to wait to get funding for a consultant until after March, what is left that we can do between now and then? [20:49] Speaker E (unidentified): Ben, are you suggesting that you think you guys are going to be able to consolidate the three departments or the four departments enough, so that we can make a municipal apartment before the new Central Station opens? Is that what you're suggesting right now? Because that would all have to happen before we could do that. [21:07] Frank: By like 2028. Right. In 2028. [21:10] Speaker C (unidentified): I think it's possible, but I don't think it's gonna be possible if we wait to even start the process of looking at it until after March. It's going to take time. we're in September we're gonna wait till March just after March to start having these to start getting into it then I don't know that we can get it I mean we're talking that 's that 12-month window right that's the same 12-month window they're talking about for breaking ground and getting the building [21:44] Frank: open let's hear more about that at 4 o'clock right yeah so I don't know if [21:52] Speaker C (unidentified): there's I don't know if there's something else we can do in the interim there's a way something for a facilitator to start the process I don't know that's that's what I'm asking I'd hate to see us wait five months six months to start a process that should start sooner rather than later the first [22:18] Speaker E (unidentified): step is for you guys to go to the organization so first and get their buy [22:22] Speaker C (unidentified): In well, I think it's like, I like, I was saying a few minutes ago, I think we come together and we talk through it, right? I, we've had these conversations, or we've started another, whether you want to say we've had the conversation, we've, it's come up at board levels meetings for both of these departments, that we're keeping them informed on conversation that are taking place here, and I believe the responders are aware of it as well, those that are active, because I wouldn't assume that, though I wouldn't [23:01] Speaker F (unidentified): necessarily assume that, some of them probably are, but I think it's a conversation that we should have with the responders and [23:11] Frank: obviously some of the big questions too, which I think your organizations will have, is what happens to your assets, what do you want to happen to your assets, retaining ownership or not retaining ownership of your real estate, not to mention you know your financial, you know, asset, so I mean there's a, there's a lot to consider, but I do agree that the conversations have to start soon at your department or nonprofit entity level, so you can say this is what we're talking about at the committee level, the town is thinking about bringing in a consultant, you know, these are the things you need to start thinking about, and of course you're, I'm sure you're concerned about your volunteers, like what are their reactions, and do they think it's a good idea, it's [24:02] Speaker D (unidentified): so much bits, what's the design gonna look like, there's so many variables here of the design, and who's gonna, if we choose one direction, say we say okay, we're gonna start with the fireside, and we're not going to integrate the EMS, is going to be remain volunteer organizations, yeah, so all right, we start on the fireside, now what responsibility once the town becomes a municipal department. Is the fire, are the folks at the individual stations still going to be volunteers for the town fire department, similar to a call department but volunteers? Or in fact, are they going to become a call department? Is the town looking to ship to a call department where they're going to be paid per hour, there's all those considerations, is now when the town assumes the responsibility for the maintenance of the equipment, maintenance of the building, whether or not as you pointed out, is the town going to take ownership of the property, are they not going to take ownership, and if they don't take ownership of the property, are they going to now assume responsibility for the, for the trucks and the operational costs And all those which are going to identify some cost shifting to the town, which could be considerable. In addition to the just the design of the department, there's going to be huge cost shifting that's going to take place at some point. It's going to impact the budget somewhere along the line, depending on what design you go, and who remains responsible for what. Those are all those questions that have to be asked in that process. Okay, what are our opportunities here? Well, we could do A, municipal department with volunteer three companies. B, we could do an all municipal department with the three companies that are all part of the town. I mean, we need to look at option A, option B, and then if we choose one, how does it play out, and who becomes responsible for what? [26:30] Frank: Yeah. And I don't know that it's a one-year process. I mean, I think any bunk board, it took several years to work. [26:37] Speaker C (unidentified): Well, my point was if we wait, then it only kicks the can down the road, right? Wait, so that's that was what my point was. I was I wasn't saying we could get it done in a year. I'm saying if we wait till March, there's a year till the new station in theory would be open. That's all I was saying. It seems like there's [26:57] Speaker F (unidentified): stuff we can do before find someone to facilitate this. I mean, we get to start conversations with each of not only the boards, the three separate boards, but the membership, because they're the ones that really matter. We need to keep them hopefully happy and that they will see a you know process that they agree with. Exactly looking [27:23] Speaker D (unidentified): at the design and say, well, what are we going to do? And we say, well, this is an opportunity to do it this way. And well, we like that way, but we don't like that way. And furthermore, there's probably [27:34] Speaker F (unidentified): several members that would be helpful in this, probably more than several on among the three departments. There's there's going to be people that can hopefully will want to participate. But I [28:00] Speaker D (unidentified): agree. I mean, there's no reason why we can't begin to look at those options, look at those designs, and say which one do we think if we were going to choose one to start with, what's going to look like? Because people can ask a question with it, what do you think I'm talking about? You know what, just what is it going to look like? We've made the volunteer, what a change is can I expect? So we've got to be prepared to give them this is the design, this is what we anticipate, and get that reaction as to whether they well, we like it or we don't like it. Yeah, but I hope [28:37] Speaker C (unidentified): You know that design is what's going to come out of the public process. We're not coming to the [28:41] Speaker F (unidentified): table with the design, right? I mean, I think we could acknowledge that and say here are some options or ideas of what we think where it could go. We got to give them the options [28:54] Speaker D (unidentified): and say these are, these are the things that can happen in different ways that can be accomplished, and each one is going to come with a different price tag and prices, you know, to some people that maybe not the responders but the public may be concerned is what the cost is going to be, the impact of the budget, so you can look at that. Hop she didn't see how does [29:20] Frank: it impact the budget? Yeah, I mean, I think we shared the on-call budget number for Kenny Bunkport was like a hundred and ninety two thousand I think in that recent budget, but they only have two full-time employees in the department and that does not include EMS, so that's what that looked like financially. But I agree with, I think Aaron you were saying like we're not going into this with a conceived, a preconceived idea of this is how it's going to look and this is what you're going to do and get on board. I think we're all saying what is this going to look like for Harpswell, how is this going to work, do we like this option, this option, this, you know, and bring people along. [30:00] Speaker F (unidentified): I mean, well my hunch is that less change is probably better for the operational, the response people, but if there's some way to not have to triplicate what the boards are doing, that if a lot of that stuff can be brought together, maybe there's one EMS service town-wide, you know, the town holds the license because it makes a lot of sense or not, but that's the stuff that we can start figuring out. But I don't know, it feels to me it seems like if the responders are happy-ish with how things are going now, we may not want to change that a whole lot and try and enforce it [30:47] Speaker C (unidentified): down our throats kind of in a special point right now too. We have a lot of folks that have joined, the majority of our folks have joined in less than six, in the last six years, so and our newer folks don't come to us with preconceived notions of how things work, so that there's the benefit of that. But I think the helpful thing is going to be next spring whatever when we can get a facility and bring people in and start work, well okay so this is what this town did or this is what but Town B did, and These are all the different options, and work our way through that process for what is going to make sense for Harpswell based on that smorgasbord. [31:34] Frank: You all met the gentleman, I think he was from the Camden area, right? The consultant guy? Yeah. I don't know if that's anybody we want to talk to. [31:45] Speaker C (unidentified): Was that the Frank guy you were talking about? [31:47] Frank: No, it's, I want to say Norm, but I don't know why. [31:53] Speaker C (unidentified): He consults on radios. [31:55] Frank: But he met with the committee. Do you recall meeting him? Yeah, maybe Aaron wasn't here. Do you, Ben? I [32:13] Speaker C (unidentified): remember something about Camden, but I can't remember very specifics about [32:19] Frank: when we were talking about the new building. Yeah, I do remember. Oh, I think it was because the select board was being asked to consider a consultant, so he came and he talked to the committee, and but ultimately the select board did not decide to at this point that [32:36] Speaker C (unidentified): was seven years ago. I think that was seven or eight years ago, was before the per diem program [32:40] Frank: started, so it's pretty, so this was around the new, before the vote on the emergency services [32:46] Greg Musil: this building is that recently? Yeah, do you recall? No, I don't remember what I had for lunch, and I [32:56] Frank: remember Mike Drake talking with him, inviting him to a meeting, and then he said Harpsil has a very complicated system. Oh, it's, it's, it's, yeah, I'm not making this. No, you're not, it's coming back. [33:10] Greg Musil: I was thinking way back, but it's like Drake's time. Yeah, no, this wasn't here. It seems to [33:17] Speaker D (unidentified): me he came and talked to us, and he was, he was involved in the Raymond station, he was involved in that, they're getting warm. Yeah, he was also involved in Thomaston, and I think some of that discussion was when we were looking at more looking at, I think building design and stuff like that. I thought he was kind of looking at operational [33:47] Frank: issues too, but I could be wrong, I don't know. Anyway, we didn't end up using his services, but I hear what you're saying. It would be nice to have somebody, you know, maybe we can start a little bit of facilitation, but I don't know that we can go full force without really having a budget for it, and maybe I can work with Frank on a work scope for a facilitator or consultant that you all might like to weigh in on what you would like that person to do, the services you'd like them to perform, but facilitation skills are important. No, I mean, there's a guy in Brunswick that he runs a company called Good Meetings. I've gone to some of his stuff before about how to, you know, he's good at running meetings, and but you got to give [35:00] Greg Musil: Him, you know, building parking lots on the wall, you got to give him some information in the parking. [35:20] Frank: So how about we come back to you with some type of work scope that you can kind of give [35:26] Speaker F (unidentified): us some feedback on? You got feedback from your mic? Is that one on? They all seem pretty hot. [35:50] Speaker E (unidentified): Just so that I'm clear though for the minutes, the parameters for this facilitator, just somebody, you just looking for a facilitator, no extra qualifications, don't qualifiers, just a facilitator I [36:07] Speaker C (unidentified): think primarily a facilitator. I mean, we need somebody that has report writing skills and can draft reports for us obviously, but it seems like it would be [36:19] Speaker F (unidentified): It would be helpful if somebody had some experience with this. [36:24] Frank: Do you know someone in the fire service? [36:26] Speaker E (unidentified): That's why I was clarifying. Yeah, I know. I know. [36:29] Frank: I mean, in a perfect world, it would be nice to have somebody with them. [36:34] Speaker F (unidentified): But we may not have that luxury. Yeah. [36:41] Frank: Now, sometimes consultants build teams. So somebody in the team has really good facilitation, and they bring on somebody that has some expertise in that particular area. It sounds expensive. Yeah, right. [36:57] Speaker D (unidentified): Good point. I guess we'll have to Google it. All [37:09] Speaker C (unidentified): right, so you're going to come back to us in a minute? OK. I wanted to share that the most recent information I have on the permit came from Maine Health, apparently, was looking at why we hadn't returned our narcotics yet, and the guy that's the EMS point of contact for Maine Health has said that he reached out to Maine EMS and it sounds like they're not planning on dropping our permit down until the end of the current permit expires, which is I think the, you know, the end of October or November. I don't know why they're holding on to it, but that was the last thing I heard as far as our ambulance permits go. So it turns out house already has the same jump bag that we have at Kennedy's, and I'm going to put back on rescue three. So the jump bag thing is just a matter of, I'm going to put the one back on rescue three and at some point we'll actually make sure the same stuff is in the back, we already have the same physical bag, so I think we can check that one off the box off, did Town staff have any information you need from us for the budget process? Pretty well set on that for the paid firefighters? [38:30] Frank: We're still working on the 2027 one, but we'll bring it back before it gets submitted to the... [38:36] Speaker C (unidentified): You don't need any more information from us? [Frank: Well, I mean...] Not at this time, right? [38:43] Frank: You wanted eight full-time firefighters? Is that what you wanted? Or do we have discretion to build something different? Did you want to weigh in on that, Frank? I don't know. [38:59] Speaker E (unidentified): Yeah, I mean, I think we're looking at it still, right? Mm-hmm. But that's... We haven't really had a chance to really talk about it. [39:16] Frank: No, but we just, you know, is your minimum eight full-time, I guess? [39:21] Speaker C (unidentified): Maya's suggestion had been eight full-timers and per diems to fill in paid time off. That's what Maya's suggestion had been. And I thought that Frank's role was outside of that eight. That's what I was thinking, right? Because even though he's full-time employee, he's not working full-time on the truck. I don't think you can count him that way. You already have two full-timers and we're looking at two more. [39:49] Greg Musil: So in next year's budget you're looking at adding four, right? Yeah, I just want to clarify, make sure. [39:55] Frank: Okay, yeah, we're working on that. [40:04] Speaker C (unidentified): You'll let us know if you have questions. [40:06] Frank: We'll come back with a well. We won't submit something to the Budget Committee without coming back to you folks and showing you. [40:12] Speaker C (unidentified): My point is just each, we'd ask if there's anything you, any information you need from us. So my point isn't, I think I'm trying to be a stickler. I just know that times coming. Yeah. [40:24] Frank: It's due at the end of October. Or at the 24th. [40:27] Speaker E (unidentified): Something like that. Okay, all right, I've got a bunch of different paths laid out. It's just we just gotta sit down and figure it out, I think. [40:40] Speaker C (unidentified): That was what we had on this budget is having these every other week helpful right now, or with the budget coming up, do we need to stay every other week, or we're gonna wait till March to bring a facilitator on board? I want to respect everybody's time, so if we don't need to be every other week because we simply don't need the time, then I don't want people to feel like they're stuck with it. I like every other week because it gives us an opportunity still to get together and make sure that the process is moving and if something comes up we have an opportunity. Of course we're missing two of the six of us. In lieu of no feedback, I guess we're going to stick with... [41:41] Speaker F (unidentified): Yeah, no, I'm doing it until we run out of things to talk about. Okay. [41:46] Speaker E (unidentified): I think there's a lot to be coming up. [41:49] Speaker C (unidentified): I will make a point of... County Cyber and OEI just had their board meetings this week already, so I will make a point of next month, at the end of the month, when they have their board meeting, to ask to put it on the agenda, have a conversation about what we're talking about. It's come up at the meetings we've been having, at least keeping them up to date, and I've made sure that they know that they can see them, they can watch the meetings online anytime they want to, or the minutes, or anything they need to. So there's nothing in the dark about it. I've been trying to tell the responders the same thing, but I will be more deliberate about it. I will send messages out and say, hey, FYI, this is what's going on, and if you have questions or you'd like to provide some feedback or whatever, but right now we're considering asking, we'll ask the town to consider bringing a consultant on at the March town meeting to help us work this out. I mean, you don't do the same thing with your folks. Yeah, no, I can put it on the agenda for our next meeting [42:49] Speaker D (unidentified): which is coming up in October, just as a more formal discussion, so yeah, just, I mean, indicate [43:01] Frank: it's very preliminary, but you don't want to leave people out of the loop, and you need to be thinking [43:08] Speaker C (unidentified): No, I've been having these conversations with people, so I've had no reason to keep it in the dark. [43:19] Frank: Not everybody watches these meetings, just saying. [43:24] Speaker C (unidentified): No, and the responders, too, you know, for at least the last ten years, these two departments over here have been training together extensively. Every time we do training, we do training together. We're doing a little bit more on their side. But on the next side, at least on EMS, we have folks that go for EMS training and stuff. We haven't been doing it so much on fire training, but I'm hoping that Frank and I are going to work on next year's training plan together so we can coordinate a little bit. [43:52] Speaker E (unidentified): I'm going to bring it up because we're going to meet, I think, on the 8th. But on the 7th of October, we've got a good training class with Pine Point Training, We're Chief Audet on residential structures and building construction. It's a three- or four-hour class. It should be on IR. [44:17] Speaker C (unidentified): Hello. Is that the second Wednesday again? [44:19] Speaker E (unidentified): I think it's the first Wednesday. Yeah. [44:22] Speaker C (unidentified): See, that's the problem we're running into this year is for us, the first Wednesday we're doing all of our equipment maintenance. It's second Wednesday we do fire training, or since I can't remember now, we do fire training the second, EMS on the third, or the other way around, but and you've had a lot of conflicts because we're doing stuff on Wednesday nights, but it's different Wednesday night, so well for [44:46] Speaker E (unidentified): October 7th, just switch it, we're [44:50] Speaker C (unidentified): Doing so on the 14th of October, we're doing vehicle expectation over to Cundies Harbor. So, like always, folks are always welcome to come over and cut stuff up. [45:03] Speaker E (unidentified): But I agree. I think we should coordinate that a little bit next year so that maybe get all three departments together. It makes it better when you put together a presentation. You're presenting more to... [45:20] Speaker C (unidentified): And we've talked about maybe working together to get some of your paid folks so they can get ice rescue certified stuff and do the class here in town. So I haven't talked to Dan about that. I don't think we ran a class this year because we didn't have enough new people that weren't already certified to run a class, but we consider it every single year, usually in February we consider it. [45:44] Speaker E (unidentified): I know Dave puts on a pretty good ice class as well. [45:51] Speaker C (unidentified): Are you saying he's stone cold? That was that was the last thing I had Mr. Hall you showed up at the very end of the meeting [46:08] Speaker G (unidentified): The end of the meeting oh I thought it started at four I did two okay but you [46:14] Speaker C (unidentified): Until three o'clock when I was reminded that the meetings got reversed today oh so There has been no conversation beyond talking about EMS bags. We have not talked about EMS response at all today. Okay. [46:32] Speaker E (unidentified): I just have one last thing on the training before you go. We just wrapped up that basic fire training class, and it looks like for the town of Hartwell, potentially we've got eight new, or eight people are going to pass the class so you got a few that did make some of the some of the classes right yeah but most of them are making them up have made them up and so [47:05] Speaker C (unidentified): Once we have final numbers on that we've got to figure out we've got to get somebody to come down [47:09] Greg Musil: And fit people for new gear so is that firefighter yeah they've [47:17] Speaker C (unidentified): Been doing a great job putting that basic fire school running that school for us so it's been super helpful as usual [47:24] Greg Musil: That the staff has been doing that is that on the base no oh you've been doing it okay [47:31] Frank: I didn't know if you had any oh okay I didn't know if you had input from the base yeah well [47:37] Speaker C (unidentified): They've been they've been super helpful completely in town I mean basically they took the excellent they took the map which was a frat program and they moved it into another area we really needed to help with are you looking at version one for yeah I've been buying my PPE through version [47:55] Speaker D (unidentified): Sometime okay I 'm gonna be doing the same thing I'd like to be able to get somebody down I probably gonna have to do mine you know in the evening because most of the folks that are [48:10] Speaker C (unidentified): Gonna need it. Are all you know full, have full-time jobs? So well, I was thinking we'd probably try to get him down on the first Wednesday of the month, but I don't know if it's too late to get him in for October or not. I'm waiting for Chris Cole, who's the PPE guy for Bergeron now, for our, is it Dale? He works for Dale, so Dale runs the show, but the local salesman is Chris Cole. I know him from Portland. Okay, Chris Cole, Chris Cole, and I've been waiting for him to give me the numbers back on the PFAS-free gear. He hasn't got to get the numbers back yet. He's waiting for the factory to get back to him on the numbers. For PFAS-free? Yeah. I'll keep you in the loop. [48:57] Speaker D (unidentified): Yeah, because I tried that route, and they were having such difficulty manufacturing it. Globe wasn't. [49:04] Speaker E (unidentified): I couldn't get it. That's probably why you don't have the numbers, because I don't think anybody's got the numbers yet. [49:08] Speaker C (unidentified): I thought they'd fix the problem, but I... [49:11] Speaker D (unidentified): It was back when I tried to get it, and they'd increase the cost of the turnout gear by $300 for PFAS free. [49:20] Speaker C (unidentified): I'm not worried about $300 for PFAS free. I'll take the PFAS free. [49:24] Speaker D (unidentified): But then I couldn't get it. Yeah. I waited five months and couldn't get it. Yeah. [49:29] Speaker C (unidentified): So I've got at least three down at Oars Island that need gear. I'm going to have three companies that need gear. [49:34] Speaker D (unidentified): I don't know. I'm going to need four at least. Yeah. [49:36] Speaker F (unidentified): Sean, did you have something you want to talk about? Yeah. [49:39] Speaker G (unidentified): Since I'm coming late, I don't know if the committee will indulge me. I thought the meeting started at 1600, but I, have some comments I'd like to make with respect to, I'll call it testimony that was offered in the last FRPC meeting by a member of Harpsil Next Fire and Rescue Committee. Is that microphone on? It is. Yes. So if you have time to accommodate me, it'll take about 15 minutes. I've got a prepared statement I'd like to read. If you got one more meeting that starts at four, yep. So if I could get put on the agenda then for the next FRPC meeting, I'd like to offer some commentaries. I'm ready. Okay, so you're gonna meet at three o'clock in two [50:28] Frank: weeks and not flip again? Yeah, that's important information. Thank you, Christy. Yeah, I mean, they talked about it and agreed to it, and then we did change the calendar, but only yesterday, so my apologies. No, that's perfectly all right, but we did it to accommodate someone's schedule. Yeah. [50:46] Speaker C (unidentified): And because in the minutes we approved, we approved minutes for today at four o'clock. So I don't, was, do we remember? I think it was a one-time, a one-time problem Jonathan was trying [50:56] Speaker F (unidentified): to solve, or was it? I thought it was moving forward. Oh, you did well then. I think we need to talk with [51:02] Speaker C (unidentified): them, but if he's, let's just moved it for him, let's leave. Yeah, let's leave fire and rescue at three then, and building it for, if that works for everybody anyways. It is, but yeah, I think that's [51:13] Speaker F (unidentified): the way to do it, as long as it works for [51:21] Speaker G (unidentified): so 1500 in two weeks, yeah. [51:23] Speaker C (unidentified): Yeah, okay, all right. The, for those that don't know, town planning staff, with a special shout out to Matt, to Matt, thankfully has gotten the Cliff Trail into Google Maps now, which shows up, and I am responding. So now when we get a call for somebody that calls in by cell phone, it'll come up on the map in IAR, you'll be able to see to them where they are in relation to the trail. So it should make our lives a lot simpler, and now that Matt and staff know how to get that information into Google, hopefully we'll see good things happen, like, I don't know, Devil's Back, and I was informed that there's a wooded trail over at Mitchell Field too, that I didn't realize, it was, I thought there was just perimeter roads. Yeah, so he's doing all the trails, or as many, I haven't asked the question yet, I asked him how many other town trails there are, right, because the town's not responsible for the overwhelming majority of trails. So, and he said it was Devil's Back in Mitchell Field. I'm not really worried about Mitchell Field because I don't think that's really a trail, so it's just a short one for the woods. Yeah, we'll [52:39] Speaker F (unidentified): find it, we'll find you. Yeah, there's like, you know, the new preserve, the Tondra Preserve, and there's trails out there, and someone could certainly fall and break a leg. Yeah, I [52:52] Speaker C (unidentified): walked those the other day and I caught them on my phone, I got to figure out how to, Matt knows how to do it from the town perspective, I haven't figured out how to do it from my perspective yet, so, but I'm hope those are all Harpsichord Heritage Land Trust. Yeah, so every time I see somebody that's affiliated with them, I try to put the plug in about trying to get their trails in there. So all right, sorry, October 8th at three o'clock.