Bangor Parks Committee reviews forest plans, waterfront fees

[0:50] Speaker A (unidentified): All right, this is a regularly scheduled meeting of the Vanguard Park Recreation Board members by community on the 8th, February 12th, 2026. And first we're going to do introductions. I'm Ron [1:03] Alan Hunter: Joint [1:06] Suzette Holly Furrow: employment by Parks and Recreation and Public Works. [1:17] Trace Doolet: Trace Doolet, Parks and Recreation Director. [1:19] Dan Goulet: Dan Goulet, Parks and Rec Committee Member. [1:23] Brianna H. Woodworth: Brianna Woodbrook, Committee Member. [1:25] Suzette Holly Furrow: Suzette Furrow, Committee Member. Susan Faloon, I am the Council Liaison. [1:31] Brianna H. Woodworth: Debbie Jandro, the Assistant Director. [1:34] Speaker A (unidentified): Okay, first on the agenda is approval of the January Venice. [1:40] Trace Doolet: So we have enough here tonight. Night we have shared with you the notes and minutes from the January meeting. We'll take a minute to for you to peruse those. Yep, right there, yep. You don't have one. Now you do. While you do that, and chair to my left, we have our newest member, welcome Ben. Yeah, appreciate you joining the group, thank you. So and many of the some new members here as well, so it's nice to have some returning and some new, some new folks as well. So make sure we acknowledge this is your first meeting tonight. Yeah, Miss balloon was us the city council or last night, not counselor Oz is noted. Counselor Float even went to the trouble of preparing notes and a report to the council, so [2:42] Sophie Cameron: I apologize, you know, to be fair, like we have three Susans on the council service, you need to do [3:55] Trace Doolet: So we're joined this evening by Sophie Cameron, our forestry technician. In the last few months in the backtrack, give a little bit of context, probably you've been with the committee for a while, where we called this, I want to say in 2021, 22, I'm going to look at that for a date. We completed a management plan for the Roman Paris city for us. Reason for doing such a plan is to ensure the health and vitality of the property going forward, and it really laid out a blueprint for us to try and manage and maintain the health of the property as best we could. We hired a consultant at the time, and again we had a great working document. We chose the city for us to start with because of its size, popularity, etc. We have a long time ago, 1999-ish, we did a similar plan for Essex Woods. Woods. Never completed it. I've gotten to a point, and I don't recall that it ever, and I'm going to look around for those that might have been, or at least have a history of that, never completed it. Forestry Division, which is a division of public works, has, with the addition of sophie has capacity now to assist us with these management plans and again regardless of the property whether it's rolling percy forest essex woods brownwoods apprentice woods having these plans in place the blueprint in place to effectively manage the property going forward is for the benefit of everybody and all of its uses so sophie's here tonight to kind of summarize some of the work they've done so far kind of side notes one of our seasonal park rangers also has similar background and capability so the two of them have been working together which really illustrates the cooperative nature that both parks and recreation department and public works has and the synergy between what we do as far as education and managing those properties and what forestry does to that end as well so i thought it'd be helpful to have sophie come here tonight she's joined by a better city forester and just kind of summarize some things they've been doing and some of the plans going forward. How's that for jumping off point? Great. [6:20] Sophie Cameron: Thank you. All right, I'm Sophie. Nice to meet you all, Debbie. I don't think we've ever met face to face, but I left your voicemail today. I don't know why I had a missed call from you earlier. Oh yes, I was calling. That's okay. Yeah, but yeah, so it's great to be here and meet everybody. I graduated from UMaine in May of 2025 with my masters in forestry. Previous to that, I have worked kind of more on the herbaceous side of things. I was a native plant landscaper, did a lot of pollinator garden stuff, things of that nature. And then additionally, I got my undergraduate degree from Ithaca College in New York in biology and ecology. I started with Ben in the Forestry Division back in 2023 for 2020 for summer of 2024, and he helped me with my master's project, in which I was working to develop the Emerald Ash Borer management plan for the city of Bangor. So I've been kind of around for a couple of years, but I'm now brought on full-time, and my position is a joint position with Parks and Recreation and Public Works. So one of the things that Tracy asked me to do during the off season for us, typically because we in the Forestry Division are in fuller swing in the summer, is to work on authoring forest management plans for Essex, Prentiss and Brown. The last plan for Essex Woods was written in 2003. It was completed as a plan, but I don't know that anything on the ground ever occurred utilizing it. That was done by Charles Simpson of Woodchuck Forestry Services, so another contractor. The last, it completed forest management plan for Prentice Woods was in December of 1965, and that was written by Roland Perry himself. That was pretty comprehensive at the time. It recommended several logging operations, which we have just scribbles of notes that he wrote down of when he completed things, and I wasn't around ground, so I'm going to take his word for it, that include logging operations in 67 and another in 1991, which was pretty extensive when they put in the trail system in the parking lot there. Additionally, we couldn't find it, but theoretically there is a management plan for Brown Woods that was written in 2001. We believe it's in a box somewhere in Public Works, so we're gonna hunt that down. Once I start working on that one, we've got the first draft of the Essex Woods plan authored, and it is currently under review by Tracy, Ben, and a couple other folks. It's been sent over to some people at, I haven't sent it yet, it will be sent to people at Maine Audubon and the Maine Forest Service for final approval, and then essentially what we're waiting on with that one is we are going to have some folks from Maine Audubon, community birders, as well as Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, come out and they're going to go for a little walk with us in the spring to kind of see what assets we have in terms of birds and birding and how that can be improved, specifically increasing insect habitat to improve bird populations and kind of to make that more of a wildlife sanctuary for people to interact with. As of now, Prentiss Woods is currently in the works. That will likely be done by the end of the month, and again that will be waiting until the spring for further review because of the presence of a significant vernal pool on the property. Again, we need to check that out in the spring with Inland Fisheries and Wildlife biologists. We were speaking to them today to schedule that meeting, just to have a look at amphibian egg masses and determine if there is more that we can do to enhance that ecosystem as well. Additionally, there is some trail improvements, specifically just clearing brush and kind of removing snag trees, that we need to make sure it's okay that we do that within the area of the vernal pool in Prentiss Woods, because there are pretty strict Department of Environmental Protection regulations on that. As of now, the only other pressing thing in Essex Woods, the active management that has been done this year, a new bridge was put in across what is that Trail? Fall Line Bridge? Fall Line Bridge. Trail, yep, yeah, thank you Debbie. A new bridge was put in that required some cutting back of branches along that main trail to access that with the machinery, and then additionally we did some invasive plant mechanical removals in the red pine plantation nearest to the main parking lot, the upper parking lot by the dog park. We are going to revisit that come next fall and finish. We got about 50% of that red pine plantation done. We're going to finish the other 50 and then explore doing some basal bark. Applications of herbicide, which would just be squirting a small amount onto the remaining mating stumps. And that's just so that they don't sprout back and continue to produce seed. That would all be done by licensed applicators. Ben and myself are working on getting those credentials. And then in Prentice Woods, we are, so the reason for doing all this in these red pine plantations is that there is this insect called red pine scale. It's been moving up the coast through Washington and Hancock counties as well as in southern Maine. It's mostly transported by wind, but it can also be transported on firewood. The people don't typically use red pine as firewood, so that's less of a long-range spread scenario that we're worrying about. We have been in touch with Alison Kennody and Gabriel May at the Main Forest Service. They are the insect people over there. We've been talking to Gabe pretty quite a bit about it, because he is the person that is doing all the red pine scale stuff, because of the capacity, the limited capacity of the. Forestry Division as well as kind of how many projects we manage at one time. The best option we could see you is to sort of get ahead of the issue. Typically when you have trees of all one species they aren't as resistant to the forest itself is not as resistant to these species-specific pests such as red pine scales such as emerald ash borer because they're all susceptible to the insects. So you end up with that lack of biodiversity you end up putting it at greater risk for honestly full mortality is what we're looking at with red pine scale. There's not much you can do with those trees unfortunately. Granted we don't know when exactly that's going to occur but we do have a red pine scale response plan that has been authored and that we would have gotten been approved by the Tree Board as well as the Infrastructure Committee that we will be putting out to the public at some point. So managing those invasive plants in Essex Woods is a part of that phase and that's the same thing that we'll be doing Apprentice Woods also [13:25] Speaker H (unidentified): probably in the fall otherwise wait a little bit of a question here a second I you want to [13:32] Trace Doolet: go back to something that Sophie mentioned it's it's trying to get us to a point where we're proactive versus reactive. I'm gonna look over at that spot at some level when we were dealing with GTM we were kind of on the fly and it came on it came suddenly for Brown so long. So in this scenario with all of the properties and you'll find the same kind of proactive management plan to ensure health of the property in the world Perry plan that we're trying to develop for all of these properties at the end of the day these amenities are unique to the city they're unique to the system of the city and then whatever we can do to ensure as best we can the management and health of those properties is huge. I heard some discussion before we started at Apprentice Woods specifically about the cross-country use Essex Woods at one time was getting used for cross-country so with the trees that are out there and the vegetation that's out there ensuring that we're maintaining that in a healthy way that allows for some of these other recreational activities essex woods we had a great conversation with the birding folks over in essex woods and making sure that without the entire property that we're maintaining the best we can imagine the best we can one of the best birding destinations in the world but i don't by the way in the world i say the world at least in the city in the state you know by the way that's it's woods there are the trails that deb's going to talk to you here with a few minutes at the end that too goes in hand in hand with the management plan for essex woods maintaining the vegetation i know that we've struggled over the years out last few years with vegetation and growth into the trails so what can we do to minimize the invasives of that [15:26] Sophie Cameron: that affect that recreational opportunity so yeah and those are all things that are addressed in the plan and those plans will be publicly available once they are completed and finalized i want to draw your attention to the primary objectives i apologize i didn't go over a page so our primary objectives for all three of these properties are to provide recreational opportunities first and foremost for the citizens of bangor these will always be maintained as forested properties we have no intentions of clearing them completely we have no intentions of converting herding them for different uses. They will remain forests for the people of Bangor to use as natural spaces. Additionally, improved tree quality and forest health. This can look like opening up space for more white pine to grow because there's an overabundance of native but very aggressive tree called black locust in the area. And then things with forest health monitoring for insects such as red pine scales such as hemlock willy adelgis such as emerald ash borer and then responding to that accordingly additionally we want to protect and improve local waters cultural artifacts and wildlife habitats that's where i was talking about the vernal pool we just want to make sure we're being as thoughtful of those spaces as possible so that we're preserving those resources for the people of bangor additionally we want to Demonstrate good forest management. That would mean following all best management practices that are set forth by the state, following all rules and regulations that are set forth by the state as well as the federal government in terms of how we manage properties, providing educational opportunities. That's what Tracy was talking about. I've been working with Nat, the seasonal park ranger at Parks and Rec, on that. Will look like getting signage provided by a group called Ag Allies that does all of this very cool bird songbird preservation stuff, working with other organizations that have a stake in managing these properties as will are not wilderness as forested areas, and then additionally improving access for both management and recreators. And that can look like reopening some of the trails in Prentice that have had trees blow over them and have kind of been forgotten about. That can look like widening a trail so that we can get a particular piece of equipment down there to remove large stumps or whatever is causing issues or get gravel on the trail or anything of that nature. But really first and foremost is enhancing these properties so that they are here very for a very long time hopefully and [17:58] Speaker H (unidentified): yeah right awesome [18:02] Speaker A (unidentified): questions how long [18:07] Speaker I (unidentified): has this position been with the or with park and rec and whatnot [18:12] Trace Doolet: that so we kind of thumbnail for you her arrival here with the city forestry has been a division of public works for as long as I've been here and before that yeah Ben you've been with the city for so the forestry technician is relatively new and as a result of something they've just talked about great good [18:43] Dan Goulet: question sure has the management plan like do they invite any of the like the artisans in the Wabanaki community for the baskets with that [18:52] Sophie Cameron: they are one of the sections in it is potential partners so we in my work specifically let's back up brown ash is not quite I know there's a little bit of it in brown woods I know there's a little bit of it in the city forest by the bog right then I know that there's a scattering of it in Prentice most of those trees were too small so when you complete a forest management plan you do a cruise which is essentially an inventory of standing living trees so when you do that you have a minimum diameter that you will measure and that's for me was four inches in diameter and most of those trees fall below that. I went to a couple of demonstrations of basket making and how what they look for in trees and things of that nature. I don't know that we have very many that qualify. However, we have been in touch with like a lot of the Wabanaki elders. We've been in touch with APCOF at the university. I see you're wearing a university main sweatshirt but the ash protection collaboration across Wabanaki we have been in touch with them for the emerald ash borer problem in general so yeah they are listed as one of our potential future partners we've talked about specifically forestry division separate from parks and rec we're developing a native tree nursery at on finson road and that's for you know used by the city but also as a network nursery for the rest of the state and that is through a grant with Maine Audubon, and they've talked about using Wabanaki youth and science. Am I getting that right? They've talked about using, interacting with them and using them as volunteers to help maintain that, as well as do other maintenance for forester [20:48] Trace Doolet: properties yeah just we don't have time to really get into it tonight but the audubon tree nursery project on fencing road it's a pretty cool project it's really cool it's a pretty cool project and then sophie really we're added to give that a reality but yeah it's a great resource it's going to be a great resource for the city in a good partnership yeah any other questions? Yeah, go right ahead. Just tell us who you are and where you're from. [21:25] Alan Hunter: My name's Alan Hunter. I'm a licensed professional forester in Maine. I've lived here for 28 years, and my wife, Ellen, and I have enjoyed Prentiss Woods almost every day. We pretty much know every tree in there, and I'm glad you mentioned that there is some brown ash in there, because there is. I have some concerns about the forest management plan and the process that's been used to push it forward, and basically I'm very concerned about stakeholder input. If a good plan is going to be launched, or even considered, stakeholder input is critical. Without it, you don't know where you're going. I mean, and really what I was hoping to hear was that the people in Bangor who are using these resources would be included at an appropriate time to have some meaningful input into this. Like I said, I know Prentiss Woods like the back of my hands. I know every trail. I'm the one that cleared out all the trees that fell down in the last windstorm. It's basically been a forest that's been neglected. But that's okay. It's an old-growth forest. And I would really encourage some more participation from people in Bangor so that when this is launched, it's accepted. They're the ones that use it, they're stakeholders, they should be involved in the process. Otherwise you might totally missed the mark through all the effort. And I guess one of my questions is, when is there going to be any input from the public before the plan is approved? That's, that's very important. That's something that needs to be done. We shouldn't be leaving them out. If I may agree, so chair, what I would suggest [23:49] Trace Doolet: suggest based on the suggestion is that we can do either at your next advisory committee or scheduled as a separate community meeting at Parks and Rec. For all of these plans we can do a community meeting, and to your question and point, invite, we've got a variety of stakeholders and a variety of these properties, not just Prentice Woods but certainly Essex Woods. We've had some individual conversations with some of those stakeholders, but an open community meeting is easy enough for us to schedule. So if we, our next meeting here would be obviously that second Thursday. We can make that meeting that community meeting or we can schedule it outside. So in answering your question, yes, absolutely, we'll schedule an individual community meeting for all the properties. And for this group, you let us know as staff, would you like to make it your next meeting or would you like us to schedule it separate of that? May I also [24:58] Sophie Cameron: offer, all of these will be put forward to the tree board, and those are publicly attended meetings, they're on the same schedule that you can see here. And then they will also be put forward at the infrastructure committee meeting. So those are two other settings where folks can share their thoughts. But I do agree that we should have a separate [25:18] Alan Hunter: Yeah, well my main concern is that the input should come first before the plan is written. Absolutely already in Prentice Woods we've got trees marked for cutting. Now this is in the red pine area and I've been through that red pine area and that's a very healthy stand. I would like to know what kind of data was collected that required some kind of a prescription to mark this, which is visibly very disturbing right now to see all the big orange cut marks. Something needs to be done here. [26:00] Trace Doolet: So as part of the meeting we'll have with stakeholders, we can identify the reasons for that. The plans are not completed to your concern and as I said we're happy to have a community-wide meeting. It sounds like we'll do it separately and we'll make sure that publicized so that this type input can be shared and some of those questions can be answered. Another thing that would be quite [26:22] Alan Hunter: helpful is to know what the process is for developing these plants for us on the outside. Side it's a total unknown and it comes as quite a shock to see that steps have already been taken when a plan isn't even been approved. Seems like it's out of step but no plan has been approved [26:43] Trace Doolet: This is to share with this group the advisory committee what that has been done to this point and it's consistent with the process we followed for the Roland Perry city forest management plan. Am so nothing is fully unusual or different. However I'm certainly happy to share with anybody that wants to attend what has been done thus far, why it's been done and take input from those that are concerned like yourself. So we're still at a point where that can easily happen and it sounds like we're going to schedule that. Okay I think the exchange of information would be sure. Oh sure no happy to do that. So it sounds like I'm hearing from the advisory committee will schedule an outside. That's what I would think because then we could you could publicize it in the newspaper or whatever and then for sure will the draft management plan be available before [27:34] Speaker H (unidentified): that we can make that happen for sure and where would I go to find that we would have printed [27:40] Sophie Cameron: copies at whatever meeting we're going to have but I also I'm not sure actually how we would [27:46] Speaker H (unidentified): say that because we're not allowed to share funds until they're approved. Yeah so we could bring a [27:50] Trace Doolet: draft plan to the meeting that night shared as part of the document. Okay it seems it seems a [27:57] Alan Hunter: little strange if you need input why can't it be made public before it's approved so we can [28:04] Trace Doolet: Confirm what we can discuss. Yeah, if there's a draft available, we'll make it available on our parks and rec website. I know a city website, okay. Yep, for sure. [28:14] Speaker H (unidentified): You're welcome. Thank you. Add [28:18] Suzette Holly Furrow: something. Yeah, sure, come on up. One thing I'd like to add to the Prentice Woods project is safety. There are so many blood hung up trees. The loggers call them widow makers, and it's very dangerous. [28:35] Trace Doolet: That's the very reason why we're doing this exercise. That's exactly the reason why we're doing this exercise. For that reason. [28:41] Suzette Holly Furrow: I've seen kids climbing up these big, tall half hanging trees. And they, some student told me that was his tree and he regularly climbed it. So that's why that was one thing and another thing is the drainage in there could not, you know, the culvert pipes are kind of cockeyed. Not, they don't need a big machine in there, but they need a little bit of help. To that point specifically [29:14] Trace Doolet: it within the Roland Perry management plan where culverts identified that needed just as prepared as you're talking about, and we use that list to start preparing those. So yes, again [29:28] Suzette Holly Furrow: exactly. We thought about bringing our own shovel, just also the trash pickup. There's a group of, I call unsung volunteers there who keep it very clean. Thank you, thank you, thank you for [29:47] Speaker H (unidentified): the input. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely, thank you. Catch up. Yeah, all [30:05] Speaker A (unidentified): right, next on the agenda [30:06] Trace Doolet: with budget updates. So let me see if I can successfully, so we're starting the budget process we talked about last time, and I was hopeful that I could pull up. We had shared last time some of our projects from our master plan. We also talked about some possible projects that you folks would like us to consider as part of that. We're very early in the process. We start working on it this week. We worked on it through as a staff the month of March to be presented to council in April, and then council have their opportunity to share with staff feedback and work our way through the process through June. We have typically used the master plan to accomplish that. Let's see if I'm hoping to put that on the screen. It's not gonna work out, and by the time I get done fumbling with it to identify projects, one project, one of the probably most significant things still on our improvement plan we Currently have funding for replacing the play structures is at Williams Park, that's how that RFP is out now. We have identified parks to work on going forward. Initially, we're gonna work on Talbot Park, that structure is nearing 15 to 20 years old. Given the construction going on with the new Y project, it makes it makes some sense to us to hold off on that and focus on one of the next parks in line. Conditions of those structures seem to be okay, so if there is a particular park that anyone here frequents or has heard that the equipment, we're not aware of those, but we're kind of that's where we're at right now as far as play structures. The next one in line as far as longevity would likely be Vanguard [Speaker H (unidentified): Gardens.] Other projects that we held off on was resurfacing the Beth Panco Aquatic Center. Initially we were hoping to do both projects, our piece came back a bit more than we had anticipated, so we held off on Beth Panco and resurfaced the Dakin Pool. Beth Panco and look at that probably has another summer of life, I don't need to focus on that. We the other larger project that we put off until this coming year, thank you for coming, was re designing resurfacing the parking lot at the Community Garden. It is a lot that's there now in the associated pavement dates back to when the Naval Reserve was there, so likely that'll be one we include. We have miscellaneous equipment to do some co-park improvements and we're working we'll work through the master plan to identify additional projects described by that plan is available on our Parks and Rec page at Bangor Main.gov if you want to take a look at it. Other than that, we're in the focus of developing operating budget first along with our cap requests and program requests, so I have a long way of saying that's around the budget process. Questions of us specific projects that you may have seen in the master plan or questions about a potential specific project is [34:48] Dan Goulet: the budget have any like new Parks and Rec builds or playgrounds at the waterfront? Nothing new along the way of play structures at the [35:00] Trace Doolet: waterfront and the work the last work we did on the waterfront was the new the last piece of the walkway extension for 95. I will share with you at some point we're gonna need to replace place, dock four, which is the seasonal boat dock. That dock is in the neighborhood of 20, the pieces are in the neighborhood 20 years old. If there was some things like, certainly we've, that has been brought up before, and not sure what kind of use that would get down there in that particular space that makes any sort of sense. Open suggestions about maybe some unique aquatic, not necessarily aquatic features, but some features that might be more adept to the waterfront setting that makes any sort of sense versus the typical [36:10] Brianna H. Woodworth: whole construction possibilities, maybe like fitness pieces or something that, you know, stuff that we think about all the time is enhancing stuff in the city. So any ideas of stuff for [36:26] Speaker H (unidentified): the waterfront, don't hesitate, you know, this [36:32] Dan Goulet: is the correct forum for that recommendations. Yeah, [36:36] Trace Doolet: you can do that or just send us an email individually. I want to bring it to the group tonight, so I'd say the same thing to the rest of you. If you think of something over the weekend, hey, did you think about this, we can try to get some quick estimates for a budget number for this. We've got about, we're up against the time frame with this, so yeah, certainly if there's something you can think, I think about this, if it doesn't happen this year, we can certainly include it in the five-year plan. Our capital plan is typically five-year plans, so if it doesn't get it funded in this coming budget FY27, we can simply put as a placeholder for future fiscal year. [37:12] Speaker H (unidentified): For sure, any other questions? [37:29] Trace Doolet: So the Kiwanis is partnering with the city and parks recreation to build what you have seen for example at Broadway Park, which you see down by Dock One. Where else do we have those shelters? Drive like up top ahead, we used to have one of Bengal Gardens, I believe that's it. We have a couple down along the industrial extreme trail. Qantas had wanted, wants to build and donate to the city up to three of them that would be a lot like the ones that I just described. They have asked about the possibility of Fairmount Park, somewhere in Fairmount Park, somewhere, I'm going to say Dakin Park over by the pool, and the third one they haven't really zeroed in on a location. One of the suggestions has come up is somewhere near the dog park. The dog park group has a renewed enthusiasm, so we've been meeting with them a couple different times somewhere up there. The purpose of sharing this with you tonight, much like the budget discussion, if you've got a particular part that in your travels while we could really use one of those at abroad did i say broadway i said broadway waterfront yeah that actually that's not a bad yeah no that could be one of those amenities that you suggest that might be a that might be a good fit i'll mention that yeah waterfront that's a good suggestion i'll take [39:11] Suzette Holly Furrow: that back. Actually, we're recording anyway, so go ahead. What about Panko pool? Because I don't [39:17] Brianna H. Woodworth: there's no shelter there is no there's there's some good trees out in the park but [39:24] Suzette Holly Furrow: like inside the fence of the pool, I didn't know if there could be, that could be done. [39:29] Brianna H. Woodworth: Yeah, I know there's a lot of grassland. Yeah, the place gets really congested as it is, and I'm not sure somewhere near it could be possible. Yeah, maybe near it, outside of it, by the playground. [39:51] Trace Doolet: We're having a similar, just go back to the waterfront actually, Sophie and Natalia, we struggle with shade around the food trucks, so they're working on some possibilities of trees, small trees and planters, to create shade around the food trucks versus shade structures like you see at the pool and Brewer. If indeed we were to do something at Panko, would be more along the line of a small shade structure that can be on a single post that would minimize a footprint versus the four pole roofed structure inside the fence. It gets, it does get pretty [40:25] Speaker H (unidentified): tight in there on busy days for sure. It's something that we're thinking of doing at Dakin. [40:31] Brianna H. Woodworth: A couple months ago at our meeting we talked about the Friends of Dakin and giving them a proposal, and that's one of them at Dakin. So if they, if they do approve that and want that, would be a good start to see how something like that would work. Right, yeah. [40:46] Suzette Holly Furrow: Yeah, so do you have any trouble with the ones that already exist with people trying to stay there, or any needles or anything like that, apple structures where there's a sleeping right? Not any [41:05] Trace Doolet: Any more or less than not acute, no. The one at Broadway gets used just as much by patrons at the play structure as they do for anything else. The ones down along on Kineska Extreme Trail, not any worse than the challenge we have with such activity anywhere else. So it's not acute to that or increased because of that would be my observation. And from the rangers that go every day, I haven't heard any differently. The biggest challenge we have, honestly, and it's not a product of lack of effort, is just keeping up with maintenance of them for sure. So it's upon us to fix that, but that's really the biggest challenge we have. [41:58] Suzette Holly Furrow: If it was someplace like Fairmount Park, I didn't know if you could get input from the neighborhood or something. Yeah, no, I agree. [42:06] Trace Doolet: And we're not we haven't decided that I mean I don't want to portray that we've decided that I just share with you today for feedback and we may end up well we three we feel the three best places are and the waterfront certainly makes sense. As much as we try to maintain the event space down there 's still plenty of space to do things like a picnic shelter sorry actually that's a pretty good I like that 's a good idea. So yeah, to answer your question, we have not decided on any location. Those are the ones that they suggested, which I said we'll share that with you folks and get feedback on that. Questions? [42:51] Speaker A (unidentified): Suggestions? Okay, let's go to water practices and turf. [42:59] Trace Doolet: So let's start with the feed discussion first. So this group, I want to say, and I'm going to look at probably you Ryan, we just discussed both harbor fees two years, you know, with three or I don't know, I think I don't know. So let's park that amenable to the rest of you, let's focus on the seasonal session application. So I share that with you specific to the feeds at the bottom. I will tell you in full candor that fee has remained the same since we started that program down there. What do folks get for that fee? It essentially is described in the box there in the middle on the white margin there. Vendor spaces are typically 12 by 30, so however many square feet that is. We have a couple of different operators. And yes, I know the date is off, but the information as far as what we're talking about is still the same. That's pretty much the season. Those dates vary obviously year to year, but we have two different season, a full season, which is about mid-May to October 1st. And then the half season is June,, July, and August. So then you can see the associated fees. They're $1,500 for the full season, $1,000 for a half a season. And some of the research that we've quickly done, different municipalities, it's kind of all over the place. There's no, it varies from very minimal to very expensive, a lot of money for folks to pay depending upon days of week, etc. What do we provide? They have access to water and they have access to power. We have reserved the right to start to charge for power, but, candidly, the reality of trying to chase that would be a very labor-intensive process. So they're allowed to plug in to city electricity and have access to city water. Other than that, we don't dictate when they open, we don't dictate menus, and they're allowed to come and go. If they, a lot of them now will do events, so they come and go. They, we don't manage, if we have two food trucks that sell similar menus, we don't manage that. It's, we allow the space and they are on their own as far as when they're open, etc. The question I guess we're at is we have not, it's not something that, I mean, yes, it generates revenue for us in general terms with electricity they use. Anecdotally, generally covers that cost. The water, it's included in our entire waterfront operation, sort of draw out what they typically would use for water, it's negligible. At the very least, it was worth the discussion tonight. One of the increases that we've talked about, should we bump it $100 each side, again, we haven't increased it since we started. So it was for bringing up to you tonight, way of feedback, and we, if indeed you're agreeable that makes sense to go up 100 on each one, then that's what we'll go with, or we'll leave it the way it is. It was worth the discussion since we've never had it on the seasonal food trucks. I will tell you that we do also offer a daily concession. We often get passed for that opportunity on concert nights when there's an event on the waterfront, an event organizer wants to do their own truck that is part of the. Event, typically the events we have on the waterfront are fundraisers for a non-profit organization. If indeed we have a for-profit organization that does some sort of sale on the waterfront, we enter into a separate use agreement where we charge either per patron or per table if it's a market of some sort. So we, there's a separate agreement for -profit events on the waterfront. So we're kind of at a point, probably should have some sort of adjustment to the fee. Our initial thought is 100 on each one. Of those, that's still fair. If you do the math, I don't know what the math is per day, per square foot, or per square foot for the season, for the space, but again, we have not increased it since we started. How many vendor spaces do we have? So we change, we're able to change the land coat, probably in total would fit comfortably of eight total trucks. We usually had five last summer was the first time we had five trucks in the space. There are five that will line up along the edge of Front Street that. parallel to Front Street, and then the new spaces would be parallel to the middle of the parking lot facing in. The challenge on that side is going to be it has been power, so we're trying to minimize how many we string out on there so we don't have a bunch of power ports. I will tell you there is a bit of an expense. We're changing the connections to power. We've added some pedestals that will, for a lot of bedroom, clean up the connections down there so that and secure them a little better so there's a little bit of additional expense to that, but long-winded way of answering. Comfortably, probably eight trucks can go down there now. [49:30] Brianna H. Woodworth: You're talking about eight dollars? No, like sixteen hundred or eleven hundred. Oh no, [49:37] Trace Doolet: extra revenue in general, right? Yeah, and again, it's not, in all honesty, it's more of we have never adjusted them. It's having the conversation, and we would be good with if feedback from you all is, you know what, for what it is, we're good. I mean, to us, our advice would be to leave it the way it is. That's okay too. We just didn't want to, we want to at least have the conversation with you [50:04] Speaker I (unidentified): all to get another set of opinions. I think we were talking about the golf course. You know, it was kind of like, yeah, what is the increase going to do, what projects are going to be done? So if this hundred dollars is going to help with those pedestal and the and better, at least you can explain that. Otherwise it just seems like, yeah, we haven't raised it for a while, we might as well do it now. So I think, I think the only thing is if we raise it and you know it's the going rate whatnot, but it's just kind of say what are they gonna, what are they [50:33] Trace Doolet: gonna see for this? So to answer that question, yeah, we've improved the electrical connections and we're going to add some tree shade with planters down there, which will hopefully improve the overall experience for both vendor and patron. [50:52] Dan Goulet: How many years have the trucks been down there? [50:56] Speaker H (unidentified): I'm going to chuckle because- Officially or unofficially? [50:59] Trace Doolet: No, it's all been officially. Initially, I want to say the first time we put trucks down there was 2009, [Speaker A (unidentified): 2010.] So it's taken on a couple of different iterations over the years. For New Year's, we parked them on the lawn next to the Harbormaster building. That was not a great idea. We moved them over to a space on Railroad Street. That didn't go well either. when now we have landed where we are now so probably where we are now 10 years time flies time does fly have you ever had like a wait list yes that varies from year to year our process has been an anticipation of the coming season to go back to previous year vendors see who would be coming back and then develop available spaces from that we have had years where we've only had three down there during covid and postcode it kind of varied but it kind of has become that destination that we created A kind of a food court down there. They stay open or closed during concerts? They do not have to leave during concerts. We were in a stretch when the Folk Festival was still here that they were forced to move so that they have their space down there now, and I think it's been kind of a given down there on the waterfront that it works out well with, and we've been asked municipalities how we do things, what we do, that kind of thing. For us, we try to keep it as simple as we can. When you said [52:41] Suzette Holly Furrow: we had like five regular vendors down there, was that a full season, like so people were utilizing [52:46] Trace Doolet: not made October. So the vendors, for example Wild Cow Creamery, they only do the short season. The rest of them would stay down there for the duration, and they do come and go, meaning that they'll leave to cover events, come back. One of the pieces of advice we try to share with them is by whatever hours you decide to operate, it should be consistent, which will translate to success down there, however you want to communicate that, and typically social media now that they use, as long as you have consistent hours, whatever they are, that seems to have set up the best chance for success down there, and we've had several come back year to year. Wild Cow Creamery was one of the originals on that site. They've been with us for a long time, for years it was Pizza. Thank you. I hear a rumor that coming back in some other iteration. Nor has Grilled been with us for a while, and then we've had others come and go. So do we do anything promotional-wise to help support them down there? So interesting, bring That we just chatted about that today, we don't necessarily promote the vendor, but we are going to start to do a little different approach as far as promoting the space. So in the waterfront food court or food truck area this year will be these five, six, seven, eight vendors, and at least share contact. Now you can find them, we've really not been able to do that, but we're going to make it a little better. It doesn't promote the business, but we can promote the space. [54:36] Suzette Holly Furrow: Sure, yeah, the electrical, so it's just a flat that's includes electricity. So with electricity has gone up for pretty much everyone, so I guess that's probably like and water, yeah, water 10, right, yeah, that's right here. So that's maybe then more reason to okay, just 10 increase for each one. [55:02] Trace Doolet: It should be 150 by then, is that too, you do that too, and to question about just given that we've never done this, and to some of the points I've heard thus far, and some of the improvements that we have done, it was for us it would certainly be hey, prices of things have gone up, we've added the electrical connections, 10 is a good round number, water went up 10 percent, so I just think. [55:28] Speaker I (unidentified): It was not just kind of like this is what we, this is the service that we provide, I mean again even the promoting of the space is probably something that if you said is something new, you also wrote on the last thing that the broad street is potential food truck vendor thing, so is that just talk or is that like is that something we need to consider with this as well. [55:49] Trace Doolet: So when I start with the daily concession, our current daily concession fee is forty dollars, so we would, we would assess the same 10 increase to that broad street. So when we first got approved by council to do food trucks and what these locations were, we did the seasonal vendors on the waterfront and then broad street and at the time different square, we could allow daily concession, so there you could pull the truck up from the edge of broad street park, plug in and do your thing and then leave, we. Did the same thing in front of pickering and the last space was where the air museum is out on main avenue by the airport, the lad it's been a long time since that truck actually go out there, that space came up because a lot of folks out there wanted to be able to have that opportunity because there's really nothing out there. It was about the same time the mexican food truck was out to came out all the time, oh yeah if you don't remember that, so that's broad street, okay, we had kicked around at. One point moving the food trucks over there, but logistically it just doesn't fit. Yeah, okay, thank you. So if I hear the group correctly, [57:13] Dan Goulet: the invite to go ahead. Sorry, I'm sorry. Do you think it's feasible to, like, I feel like the city gains a lot from having these two trucks. Like, me personally, I go to Waterfront oftentimes because there's two trucks, and I never see the place like swamp with people. It's steady enough, but I think if we could encourage them and maybe reward the ones that have been here year after year, if there's a way to like not get them to increase, but maybe new trucks that have never been here. It is what it is, and that's their new price. We can look into that, I think, to [57:53] Trace Doolet: respond to the cost whether you've been here or not for any long time the costs remain the same the improvements can be consistent for everybody i think those at the end of the day our opinion you and then it's still if you have a food truck and you have a space to park it 's still a decent deal down there i don't know that we have when we assess fees i don't know that we've [58:22] Speaker H (unidentified): ever given consideration, that kind of consideration. No, and we do that for a lot of things, like [58:28] Brianna H. Woodworth: community garden, first come, you know, that people have done it in the past, they got first choice, but if there's room, people can come at the same price. You know, if it's wrong to what I just [58:41] Trace Doolet: mentioned too, I think the reward for returning vendors is that opportunity to say yes, no first, [58:46] Speaker H (unidentified): and we give them a date served to do that. So yeah, I don't see anything else that we do that for, [58:55] Brianna H. Woodworth: and so I think we get more people saying, why do I have to pay more, you know, to go in? And if there's a space open, give them the opportunity to come in at the same price as everybody else. [59:07] Speaker H (unidentified): That's at least what I'm feeling. [59:11] Dan Goulet: I mean, if the money is like needed for budget reasons and I would be cool with it, but if it's just like this kind of going up just because, I was so advocate, try to keep it the same. I know, I don't want to name names, but I know one of the food trucks is also doing like the seasonal or monthly like restaurant place, they get the one day a week, and I hope that they come back, but I think they've been doing pretty good over there. Okay, that's also like, I think some of them are only food trucks, some of them are also like dipping into that, I'm very restaurant scene as well, right? [59:52] Trace Doolet: No, you're right. I would say one of the things we do offer them is the opportunity to do it on a month-to-month basis, so that they're not getting that. We would ask for that first month, but offer them a payment plan through the season. So do we have any recommendations for an increase, if any? [1:00:23] Suzette Holly Furrow: 10% is reasonable, with an outline of improvement on space promotion, the [1:00:31] Speaker H (unidentified): electrical upgrades. Change, okay. Anyone disagree? It's [1:00:44] Trace Doolet: up to you. I think we have the time back we need. I appreciate that. We appreciate that. Yeah, more advisory stuff. Yeah, like, you know what we do [1:00:52] Speaker H (unidentified): it doesn't, you know, I mean, we'll do it right this second, but this is why we bring these things to [1:00:58] Trace Doolet: you folks. It's, yes, I, but it is to offer us advice to us, to have others out there make sure that we're not getting siloed. The only other thing that I know we're getting, the harbor fees we discussed a couple years ago, it's a lot of the same thing. I know Mgr coming to you asking for any sort of advice, recommendation, would increase them again, the harbor waterfront on operation for us, this helps offset some of those costs. So does the arrival of American Cruise Lines between the yearly rent that they pay and the per-passive fee documents they pay. So it was merely to put this in front of you and to share with you from a staff perspective that these fees seem appropriate both for what we're doing and from what we see in other places. But I just wanted to share that with you and let you know that. [1:02:02] Speaker J (unidentified): I actually have a question, please. Yeah. My question is the picnic table, since we're on the topic of that at the waterfront, two things in the parking lot. Why are they in the parking lot? Picnic tables? [1:02:25] Trace Doolet: Yeah. Because that's where the food court is. Right. [1:02:29] Speaker J (unidentified): So is there any chance of like putting them on the lawn? I don't know, I'm just asking. [1:02:34] Brianna H. Woodworth: To put a few on the lawn, just so people walk, go. [1:02:36] Speaker J (unidentified): Yeah, push them, yeah. Yeah, like for example, is it really safe? I don't know. I'm just thinking that's the way I am. I'm a little neurotic. I thought I'd throw it out there. Okay, so is it safe in a parking lot? Has it proven to be? I guess so. I don't know how long it's been like that. [1:02:50] Brianna H. Woodworth: There's some blockers. [1:02:52] Trace Doolet: Yeah, we have some parts they go through, so when we forgot we create the area for the food, so the answer question about tables, yeah, we could be more sure, no [1:03:03] Speaker J (unidentified): I just mean is there enough places for people to park? Oh yes, okay, yep, so [1:03:12] Trace Doolet: That big parking lot, we cut it, we essentially separate in half, and in the middle of it you'll see a row of jersey barriers, and then we put jersey barriers on the ends, okay? And then we put metal posts in the openings on each end, and then the pink tables are spread out in there. We could for sure use more in the grass areas for people to use if they want, like shade or something. Yeah, well in the shade, hence why we're hopeful to put some trees. Yeah, so yeah, there's something we can do down there a little better that we'll focus on this summer. In the grass it would be nice because if [1:04:01] Speaker I (unidentified): you're using those picnic tables you should be frequenting or being a customer of the food trucks if you've packed a little lunch and you're looking for a [1:04:09] Brianna H. Woodworth: a picnic table is not really the place to go, that's that's a good point, yeah, you can kind of [1:04:15] Trace Doolet: go off on your own, that was right, no, and with the addition of the extra trucks, the trucks are going along the line of the jersey barrier, so plus asphalt is hot, and asphalt is hot for sure, but yeah, we're going to answer the question, we can have more tables for sure, to have options, it would keep them smaller and wood so people can move around, yeah right, yeah, and you can [1:04:40] Brianna H. Woodworth: get closer to the water so you can see on the grass, it just makes the a little bit experience a little bit different, yeah the [1:04:51] Trace Doolet: bite racks of the waterfront, so the bite racks are actually, if you walk around along the sidewalk you'll see about a three foot well-trodden post this tall with circles on them, those are to lock your bikes [1:05:08] Dan Goulet: yeah, those would have to go over pretty much, is that right, if you [1:05:13] Trace Doolet: try to try to picture it, yeah, there's some, so again they're along the sidewalk along Front Street and they're kind of spaced out a little bit, but yeah, that's what those were for, yeah, they go from like if you start at Main Street and you go down toward the river all along, yeah [1:05:33] Suzette Holly Furrow: maybe this isn't the right time to ask this, but wasn't there something last time about the Kiwanis Children's Playground on the waterfront, were they thinking about that, I want that [1:05:42] Trace Doolet: but now it's that was quite a while ago, okay, that's why they're doing the show much [1:05:46] Speaker H (unidentified): much than old people. Okay, that's what I was talking about. That's what I was wondering. [1:05:50] Trace Doolet: Yeah, so to your question, when the mound was built, the natural amphitheater was on the water for a number of years. They had been putting up a structure to fly. Amphitheater went away and now under the ground is the combined stormwater and flow tank that we installed two years ago. Now And they've changed their these inquiries isn't immune to a life service organization members are not as healthy as membership as they used to be right so yeah that's why they come to this show yeah you're not asking about no I think we're good with these fees I just wanted to since we're on the topic have that discussion with it we're good with these fees as far as I would we've had a discussion with you all a couple years ago it was more the food truck we haven't really done i think what that started and it seemed like an opportunity and we have the feedback we need so appreciate that anyone else i [1:07:06] Brianna H. Woodworth: have a couple things yeah so a couple months ago at our so december meeting i talked about how we hired osi to do a an assessment and a plan at essex woods for recreation activities down there and so they started their the research and we had our they had their first stakeholders meeting this past week and so that stakeholder meeting was with like mountain bikers and stuff like that so that happened on Tuesday night it was awesome very well attended and it was held at Slipping Gears here in Bangor and it lasted over two hours that's how much feedback people gave to them on what they want to see down there so it was great unbelievable so I'll be talking to OSI and we're going to be putting another one together at Parks and Recreation we're going to advertise it for others to come in to give feedback on what they would like to see for reference stands for outdoor what did you say I think it's [1:08:19] Speaker H (unidentified): outdoor sport institute yeah yes outdoor sports institute yeah so you've asked me the same things [1:08:25] Brianna H. Woodworth: yeah i know i know i have it right here i was on the other page though and so it was just a great turnout and very nice to see how what people want to see at essex what is there how they want it to be just nicer and better flow because they just they're thinking of the future you know and the families and the kids and so even though a lot of these people are hardcore mountain bikers that's not what they're looking for over there or things for everybody so it was great so you guys will know when The next one comes out, if it's something that you guys want feedback to this consulting company that's doing this for us, okay, let us know. I mean, there's two [1:09:10] Speaker I (unidentified): meetings looks like on the books means that we get an email out yeah beforehand hand, I know we there was also the one talking about the signage and stuff done on the Connecticut stream. And that was nice to know it was out there. And yeah, [1:09:24] Speaker H (unidentified): a lot of stuff going on. Yeah,. [1:09:30] Brianna H. Woodworth: Just a couple more updates. I know we didn't have on here programming updates or anything like that. But just to give you guys an update on some things that can conduct extreme canoe race went live this week. Today's surgery. So I think I went live monday great response after one day of advertising so that's that's wonderful our summer camps we are running three summer camps this year instead of four we're combining two our minis and munchkins together and this doesn't include team camp that's not included so our three camps are going live tomorrow so people that are interested in putting their kids in summer day camp in the eight week program they can choose one week three weeks eight weeks everything's going to be on the website by end of the day tomorrow don't not 9 a.m so other things that are coming out i know we've been getting a lot of phone calls about our culinary camp so people out there that will be up by monday's a holiday i will have that up by tuesday so people will know and then that 's going to be a line running through the door so that's going to fill up very quickly just so you guys know it's a it's a camp that we do with eastern maine community college we partner with them and there's like probably about 25 other camps that i'm not going to mention that we have that's going to be coming out in the next three four weeks for this summer and the great stuff about summer and the reason why some of them are not yet done for the summer and i know it's only february but we need to put these things up now is we are we don't have a recreation coordinator again as of a month and a half ago or two months ago but we just hired somebody and she starts on tuesday so yes and we will invite her to next month's meeting so you guys can meet her [1:11:27] Speaker H (unidentified): her name's chelsea smith [1:11:31] Brianna H. Woodworth: So that's what I have. And any questions about programming? Didn't we have the father daughter? We did, yes. The last Saturday we had the, it's called the Valentine's Dance, and we had 605 people attend the dance on that old Saturday night. And just to let you know what we, what we started doing last year, which is great for this dance, it only makes sense for this dance because it's so cold, we go to the community connector. They have the bus trolley and the troll, what is it, the trolley and we got one of our staff members licensed with their CDL, and so they take the bus and we go from the parking lot down to the door, and we and there's a lot of heat, it's very hot, and that they crank the heat and we transport them to the door so they don't have to worry about walking in the cold. And that started, we started thinking about that was I think two or three years ago when it was the minus us 40 or 50 degrees that one night, and that was the night of the dance, so that's when these things started coming up, we got to do something about that. So a very great success on the dance. [1:12:51] Trace Doolet: The only guy that is golf course crew actually started grooming today. The machine was down, got it fixed, he's gonna finish tomorrow, so there'll be some cross-country trails for them if they don't know. Yeah, that's true this week. Yeah, that's all we have. So what are we thinking about for having that stakeholder meeting? So tonight we are February 12th, next week is school vacation week, we're falling into March, so if I heard some of the feedback you, they wanted to be a separate meeting, which is fine. It looks like we let's tentatively look at maybe the first Thursday in March, or do you want to forego your regular March meeting for this? It could be after if you'd rather do that. Get the sense some folks are anxious to hear what's going on, so and [1:14:02] Brianna H. Woodworth: we're also going to do the other one that we need to do soon, and I don't think they should be together. I think the OSI stakeholder, well you know, so the trail one separate [1:14:12] Trace Doolet: for it, but I would do, I would like to, we would like to do the forest management plan all together. I think that makes the most sense that way we're not doing one for us. So perhaps that first Thursday does [1:14:31] Dan Goulet: that work? That's something that'll be awesome. You have the [1:14:36] Trace Doolet: opportunity to attend. I'll make sure that you all hear about it. Will be done, we'll do it down out here so we can do it on here. If we don't, then we can figure out. Last time we tried to do zoom from parks and rec, a little concluded, but why we do this tonight, tentatively plan for that first thursday. If for whatever reason something changes, then let us know, but [1:15:02] Speaker H (unidentified): we'll tentatively plan for that first thursday in march 5th. Yeah, and the other one that [1:15:08] Brianna H. Woodworth: I'll just like email you guys. It's it's nothing that you need to go to. It's a stakeholders, it's people who want to see like, you know, have a really big idea of what they want to see at essex woods. We'll email you, we're going to put, you know, email blasts out on facebook when that's going to be, and we'll hold that one at parks and rec sometime soon. Honestly, it's going to be probably within the next month because he's doing this assessment and wants to deliver something to [1:15:33] Speaker H (unidentified): us in the spring. And it's so the march 5th one about seven. Okay, gives people a chance [1:15:43] Trace Doolet: the only thing i'll do from here, i don't anticipate anything in here, so if there's some sort of conflict with the space, i'll follow. Okay. [1:15:57] Speaker H (unidentified): appreciate the feedback tonight. Shake the conversation, it's nice to see the chairs fall. It really is. No, it really is, i think [1:16:12] Speaker A (unidentified): it's on anyone's mind before we leave. Do you? No. [1:16:17] Brianna H. Woodworth: Oh, i've been looking at the incorporated sign. We're on an anniversary day today. Here we are. [1:16:26] Dan Goulet: Today is the city's birthday. [1:16:39] Speaker A (unidentified): Thank you, thank you.